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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2014014#Comment_2014014
I doubt they are in a bad spot with money, the amount of money they must make on this game has to me in the double digits of millions.
They're a private company so they don't disclose financial matters, and the scale of double digit millions isn't exactly right. The cost of a copy of DBD is around 25 bucks (console is usually more expensive), and they sold 5 million copies, that's 125 million dollars in revenue by the game alone.
Plus, even if they are running on a profit margin of greater than 30%, BHVR isn't exactly a charity. Wherever they can take money, they'll take it. Maybe if Microsoft gave out Xboxes for free, or if Apple gave out Macs for free, BHVR might need to follow suit (if antitrust doesn't kill them first).
Also keep in mind that free-to-play games (CoD: Warzone) depend heavily on microtransactions, and also the fact that they re-release titles, unlike DBD. DLCs are significantly different than microtransactions, and since DBD doesn't get re-released, it just won't be worth it. This current title has already gained traction, and most of their money comes from DLCs themselves.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2013924#Comment_2013924
It pretty much is a pay-to-play. You have to buy several DLC's or spend hundreds of hours grinding the shards for half of a chapter (if you play both sides at least). And it just adds up to crazy amounts of money over time. That's not even including the cosmetics or battle passes. I think DBD should be free at base since it has so many DLC's and other forms of monetization. I think it would bring more people to the game because it is free and actually profit BHVR more since they would probably want to spend money on it.
Well no, the game still maintains its core functionality regardless of whether or not you paid for the DLCs. I got them all through iri shards and auric cells. DLCs are a natural part of game evolution; it's either that or re-releasing titles every year.
And no, making DBD free will not draw in new players. Video games are not so expensive that it would turn off a significant amount of potential buyers. Plus, they just can't afford to do such. Players like me grind shards and cells so we don't have to pay a buck for DLCs, and that's not something they can afford.
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To be fair, they could ask the same.
That's the issue with DBD. Altruism isn't rewarded heavily enough, and is even punished. All those anti-altruistic powers and perks are incredibly unhealthy for the game. That and the fact that tunneling is a decent strategy. If you take my word for it, altruism bloodpoints should be much greater, and the pip requirements for altruism higher than they already are.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2013290#Comment_2013290
Oops, I guess I didn't know about that. I do know that there are 6-hour tickets because I used one for nurse just yesterday.
I myself don't remember seeing any bots hide around all the time. If you go up to them while injured they will help.
I guess it makes sense for them to be purchased with auric cells.
For the most part still, I have fun because of how well mobile runs compared to PC.
Dead by Daylight is their only current successful game, and they make a metric ton of money off of it for sure considering how much the game is monetized. It would be better if the base game was free meaning you start out with Trapper, Wraith, and the other starting survivors and killers, but everything else had to either have shards to pay for them or cells.
6-hour tickets must be new; I haven't seen them. I only get 12 and 24 hour tickets through gift boxes and return rewards.
As for bots, their AI is very rudimentary. They make pretty suspect loopers and their decision making mechanisms often "short circuit," so they are indecisive between two objectives.
The best part about DBD mobile in comparison to PC DBD is hit validation; it is heavily in favor of the player with quick internet, and it's stricter than a British nanny.
As for money, such an option wouldn't make sense to BHVR. Remember that video game companies don't exist to deliver content and entertainment, they exist to make money. The standard for video games is that, in order to purchase a title, you have to actually buy the game. They put time and effort into developing the base game, conceptually and physically, and they want to be compensated for that. Plus, it's a major source of money when your game is becoming more popular. It just doesn't make sense to BHVR, or any game, free (unless you're going to go down the free-to-play route, but NOBODY loves those).
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@madminer95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1997718#Comment_1997718
Its not a massive thing and Killers can live without it but its just silly that a nice quality of life feature was given to Survivors but then purposely not given to Killers without valid reasoning.
Well I think the idea was that killers have a separate perspective from survivors, and since hooks concern the survivors more than the killer, it was just a minor QoL disadvantage.
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Yeah, survivors can steal the show with hilarious usernames and killers are left in the comedic dust.
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- Killer and survivor tickets to play with a survivor or killer you don't have (except for licensed ones for some reason). - This will allow people to see if they like a DLC killer BEFORE they buy them. As far as I know, there are 6 and 24-hour tickets.
You don't get access to add-ons, and I have 80 of these 24 hour tickets (the other one is 12 hours by the way, not 6). That's a bad business model for BHVR.
Licensed ones are forbidden because they can only be bought with auric cells; they are significantly more expensive to operate, and you don't want people getting them for free.
- Bots that take over a person who has DC'd - Better than nothing and work well enough. (screw players who dc when they are downed for the first time)
Believe me, this sounds great, but the bots literally spend all game crouching in the corners of the map. Never once have I been healed by a bot.
- Great optimization - Everything runs smoothly if your phone can handle the game, things only start to break when you have bad wifi or connection. Just butter-smooth gameplay every second.
Kind of. Hit validation is very strict, and laggy killers are always punished, but there are occasional frame drops and the controls are just ... it's mobile.
- It's free
Sure, that would be great, but video game companies are always running on notoriously thin margins, and video game titles are the only way they can make money.
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I don't think DBD is supposed to be scary, in the sense of FNAF or Silent Hill, in the regards of jump scares and suspense. Rather, DBD is a thriller or slasher game. Horror is such a broad genre, including everything from Scream to Halloween to Silence of the Lambs to the Blair Witch Project.
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@MindGame3301 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2012233#Comment_2012233
Then what about the fight with the entity to live? should the second phase be the survivor going to the entities realm for 1 or 2 minutes and having to complete a challenge to go back at an attempt for escape? (I think the devs want the second phase to still feel like a fight to stay alive).
Well currently it's not a fight against the entity, it's a fight against your medical insurance to treat the carpel tunnel you're going to get from struggling. I think the rate of button spam required should be significantly reduced, at least.
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Yeah, I agree. Few people remember that DS is a second chance perk at heart, not an anti-tunnel perk. Even if they try to whittle its application down to anti-tunnel capabilities, one single measly stun is not going to stop a dedicated tunneler, it's a fart in the hurricane. Plus, slugging still exists, and even if they get into a locker, too bad, that's a game mechanic. Get it out of the way if you can, or just go find another survivor.
Believe me, I've had games where I've eaten 4 DSes. It's not that annoying. It's a second chance, it's there, end of story.
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No, but I do think that it's very temperamental. Survivors need not only to be good individually, but also to be coordinated in order to even the match. There are so many factors involved in determining who wins that it's impossible to say if the game is "survivor sided" or "killer sided." It's an asymmetric game, and comparing the difficulty of survivor to killer is comparing apples to oranges. Even individual killers are different. Since there's no base kit for killers, it's now twice as impossible to compare.
Now, onto your particular complaints,
- Perks. Yes, there are killer perks that are very good, but most of them have counters. Hex:Ruin, Barbecue and Chili, Thrilling Tremors and NOED all have counters. Let’s have a look at survivor perks that can’t be countered: adrenaline, sprint burst, lithe and don’t get me started on object of obsession. The devs have turned a MASSIVE blind eye on object. People who say “Oh you’re just bad learn how to counter them” are the same people that bring unbreakable and decisive.
Exhaustion perks and object both have counters. Exhaustion perks are fixed by zoning (sprint burst means nothing if you sprint burst into the Great Plains), and they're frankly not that hard to catch up with. Dead hard is easy to bait out too; just tail them, or force it out in another way. Remember, the point of exhaustion perks is not necessarily to make distance. It's to get to another loop safely. That means zoning, and if you can cut them off, they're useless. If you see object users, tunnel them out of the game, and don't even feel bad about it. It's leaving them exposed, and if you see them, you have license to go after them. And don't go strawmannirg survivors. It's that kind of self-righteous toxicity that this community desperately needs to shed.
- Map design. A good majority of maps are heavily survivor sided, including Hawkins, Lery’s , Red Forest and Haddonfield. Most killers get countered by maps like these. I understamd the devs have been attempting to add balance to certain maps such as Macmillan and Autohaven but that isn’t making up for the pure amount of unbalance in other maps.
Again, this is all subjective. Some killers excel on these maps, some killers don't. Swamp is miserable for both sides. Lery's is always a prayer to RNGesus. Red Forest, Haddonfield, and new Game are usually survivor sided, just as how Midwich and Dead Dawg are typically killer sided. But again, it depends on the killer and the survivors' playstyle. A nurse who knows what they're doing on any corn map, or even Ormond, is an automatic GG. Demogorgon is pretty good on Midwich, or any map that has tight corridors (Haddonfield included).
- Gen speeds. Do I even need to go over how quick gen speeds are? And with addons gens can get done in a matter of seconds if everyone is working on one. 45 seconds for 2 people. 2. That is a ridiculously quick time considering that’s cutting 35 seconds without that extra person. They need a nerf, or else they are trying to encourage people to start bringing ruin, but wouldn’t you know! Your totems get done within 30 seconds of the map starting. That leads me into my next point.
It's difficult to tell statistically, but here in rank 1, maintaining pressure to force them off of gens is not that hard. Plus, don't underestimate 45 seconds at the cost of having two survivors together. At rank 1, the hardest part of killer is tracking. Being able to pressure, and even down, two survivors at once is an absolute blessing. Don't forget that survivors on hooks, survivors going for saves, and survivors healing are not survivors doing gens.
Take, for instance, the Nurse. Decent Nurses will never run gen regression perks because they don't need them. The ability to down survivors in quick succession, and not have to worry about getting looped, is a high-pressure machine. That's why Oni, and even Plague or Myers are pretty good. When an Oni has blood fury and top knot, you better pray to god someone else is going to die before you. When a plague has corrupt purge, you hide. When Myers is in tier III, you scramble to good loops. It's all about maintaining pressure effectively and efficiently.
- Totem spawns. The amount of times I bring ruin undying and undying goes within 1 minute. 30 seconds later, and there goes ruin. Totems are way too obvious and need better spots other than just smacking them in the middle of the map where everyone can see it. At least make it so that survivors kind find totems until after the first minute of the match.
You shouldn't be relying on totems to stay around for the entire game. That's the entire point. Plus, some maps have absolutely blessed totem spawns. Lery's, the swamp, and Springfield have very strong totem spawns.
- The killers them self. Bhvr have added killers that have very weak map pressure or abilities that are useless, turning killers into a laughing stock. The devs release a killer then ignore them, leaving them to eventually become a meaningless killer with no good perks, or one good perk and two completely awful perks with no use at all. Compare that to survivors with actually all viable perks that can be used including Meg and even Fen Ming. Killers need some love!
Don't write off killers as being plain bad. They all have nuance to them. Just look at pig; she's got no chase help and she's one of the deadliest killers out there, statistically. Even clown has some very good anti-loop potential. Twins, even. Absolute slugfest they have going on.
Calling Feng's perks viable, or claiming that ace in the hole is viable really chips to your credibility. Feng's perks suck, ace in the hole sucks, lucky break sucks, breakout sucks, the new survivor perks suck, half of Felix's perks suck, leader sucks, self care sucks, babysitter sucks, buckle up sucks, No-one left behind sucks, etc. etc. etc.
And, I mean this in the nicest possible way, you come off as a typical entitled killer main. The reality is that the game is subjective, it depends on an individual's ability to harness the power of the killer, if you find that factor a or factor b is ridiculously this or that, it's more than likely your own fault (other than keys), and DBD is pretty much as balanced as can be. Believe me, I used to think just like you, but those sentiments begin to fade.
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It's a pretty decent strategy, unfortunately.
The typical punishment, or "balance" if you will, to camping, is the fact that it robs the killer of map pressure. Unfortunately, at most 3 gens will pop while one survivor is camped to death, if they don't kill themselves on hook. That's plenty of time to camp out one more survivor to death, and with blood warden/NOED, they can easily land a 4k. Even if the survivors can loop decently, 2 kills are pretty much guaranteed. Not much disincentive there.
Plus, it's just an awful way to play. Boring, disrespectful, and leaves the killer smug and self-righteous. And god forbid if survivors get too generous; I've gotten 4ks at 5 gens with clown, by grabbing survivors off hooks and finishing off the one that runs away.
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Your particular situation sounds the worst; I've gotten 4ks after 3 hooks by NOED alone.
Plus, that's kind of the point. It's a way for less experienced killers to try to salvage games that didn't go so well. That's why you see so many "questionable" killers running NOED. Unfortunately, it's powered to be more than a salvage, it's a full on arsenal.
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@MindGame3301 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011973#Comment_2011973
If they added an option and players could choose then that takes out all the stress. No one would be able to complain because we would all have the same options. The game should be fun and stress relieving, but obviously, we need a scare factor but frustration does not breed fear, it breeds resentment.
Well, that's why we have the genius proposal of stop requiring struggling on hook.
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Prove thyself is pretty underwhelming. Especially when you're talking about an excess of 40 seconds, it's not that much of a buff. Plus, it requires two survivors to group up, so if you're applying pressure correctly, you can shut that whole operation down and pressure two survivors at once. I've gone against prove thyself/better together/stake out/brand new part/commodious toolbox teams, and finding them all grouped up was invaluable in terms of pressure. I got 3 downs out of that one encounter, and I suck at looping.
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I think that skillchecks might be too stressful. It's easier to spam than to hit skillchecks.
That being said, I think that the better solution is to just remove struggling. Carpal tunnels will thank us.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011569#Comment_2011569
The importance of representation is underestimated, but that's a whoooole other discussion. One that I might not even be able to do justice for since I don't feel under represented at this point in time. Still, I'm gonna cross my fingers. If James Charles shows up as a survivor, at least know the makeup community will be roasting BHVR too.
Well yeah, diversity is a moot point as of now. It just requires some serious tightrope walking to make it work.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011535#Comment_2011535
I'm pretty sure it's going to be a new character who is LGBTQ, and so they have an opportunity to create a storyline that makes it an interesting detail that some how plays into the main idea of the story. Their significant other would have to be either some how important, or maybe the LGBT community. Could be that they worked with LGBT youth, as abandonment, homelessness, and many other issues are a real problem. Being a character that brings hopefulness is totally the entity's MO. That also does make the storyline a little more LGBTQ focused, but I don't see it as an insulting stereotype.
I'd like an LGBTQ character too, preferably without any "hey sisters" jokes involved, but again, it's a perilous road for BHVR to traverse, for so little gain.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011472#Comment_2011472
Just for the record, the devs have commented on it in at least one dev stream. Not_Queen has said that LGBTQ+ representation is very important for them and they know it’s a sensitive topic and they want to do it right and not rush it (something along those lines). Characters are also planned at least 9 months before release, if not more.
Also, David was at least in a confirmed heterosexual relationship. Which was mentioned in his tome story and as far as I can remember him having a girlfriend was completely irrelevant to the story whatsoever. David could still turn out to be bisexual or gay but was curious etc. of course.
Well, I agree that it is nuanced, but I don't know if its the minefield BHVR wants to tiptoe around.
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There isn't going to be any change, or at least, one hasn't been announced.
That being said, I think it should be buffed, if not to the base kit, to a perk. Maybe have breakout add x% of struggle to the bar if they take a protection hit.
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I think it's unfair, but not particularly game-breaking. Outright limits on turnable area are very much on the table.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011503#Comment_2011503
That's why I say a story like following their lover into the fog makes it important to the storyline. Writing LGBTQ characters like straight characters is easily done. You just make the details important to the story, and it's a detail, not the main idea.
I do hope if and when it happens they adhere to some how making it important, and not a stereotype.
That's what BHVR would want to avoid; writing them like a normal, heterosexual character, but having them be gay will be perceived as "cheap." Each detail in a survivor's story is there for value. Zarina's immigrant descent highlights her dedication to social justice; she's suffered racism and she's dedicated to fighting it. Elodié's race is bit more suspect. I guessed she was supposed to be like Chloe Frazer or Nadine Ross, strong, non-white treasure hunting women who can stand for themselves. Yun-Jin is Korean because 1) That's where the music industry is, and 2) Korea used to be very poor, and has a huge wealth gap. Those that got rich had to drag themselves out of abject poverty and hope for a lucky break, demonstrating her grit and perseverance. Yui is Japanese because Japan is a very, very traditional country. She breaks the mold.
Meanwhile, if David turns out to be gay, hooray for me and my Kingfield fanfiction bank, but it contributes little to his character. He grew up in privilege and has some very close friends, so it doesn't address any social exclusion or loneliness, common issues for LGBTQ peoples. If Nea turns out to be lesbian, great for the lesbians (and the straight men), but it contributes little to her character.
But, if Dwight turns out to be gay, it would fit. He grew up in forced introversion and dealt with bullying his entire life, even as an adult. However, a lot of people are going to complain about stereotyping homosexuals as nervous, effeminate, and submissive.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011485#Comment_2011485
Again that's over thought though. The main focus of the story doesn't have to be on an LGBTQ storyline*, just like Nurse's isn't focused on her husband, but it adds substance to her character.
Well, the issue there is that tacking on "gay" or "lesbian" to a character makes them feel artificial, or like a diversity hire, like every Netflix high school athlete whose big twist is that they were actually gay the whole time. It contributes little to their character, it's just there for superficial diversity.
Plus, Nurse's husband is a not inconsiderable part of her story. Family was clearly very important to her, and even though he is mentioned like only once, his absence and death has very consequential effects on her story.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011395#Comment_2011395
I think LGBTQ is also over thought in media, which was understandable when it was new in the 00s but it's 20 years later. A lore story where one character's lover is taken by the entity so the other follows isn't focusing on the sex, but it could just happen to be any combination of genders. Something where it ties into the story easily should be the goal. Like Nurse's husband being a blip in the lore even.
Right, so that's back to the issue of do we really want to know whose pants this guy wants to get into.
Although, the one trope I could think about that would remotely fit a gay character would be one whose story is based off of exclusion and social ostracism. Even then, there are so many other tropes to think about, so I'm not expectant of anything.
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Jeez. Nine months ago and still no word, as well as no commitment that they would deliver.
Look, wishful thinking is great, if David turns out to be gay I'm going to finally be able to die happy, but it's just not something they're going to address in the current state.
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Survivors doing things efficiently is not abuse, it's playing the game. Gen-rushing an all that stuff you complain about is nothing but a killer's failure to keep up pressure. What do you expect, for them to just sit around and do nothing?
The reason Freddy garners so much hate is because he's just brute force. Gen teleportation for map pressure, hackneyed and nuanceless loop counters (slowing down survivors is just plain uninspired), and the ability to deny borrowed time is just putting the killer kit on steroids. There's no nuance or particular skill involved. Killers like nurse are grossly powerful, but they require actual skill. Spirit is a tad easier, but she's still a difficult killer. Pig is pretty awful, but she can still get 4ked with a competent player. Plus, they have nuance. They have their niches and now how to make the most of what they get.
Freddy, on the other hand, has an arsenal of tools at his disposal. It feels "cheap," in a way. Plus, he's just boring to play. I used to be a Freddy main, but he became so hackneyed and so banal that he had no satisfaction anymore.
IE, in words more familiar to you, he's like a key in killer form. I can get what they were trying to do, but they shot it up with steroids.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011395#Comment_2011395
Why is your text so weirdly formatted with the words being separated by line breaks?
an LGBTQ+ char is confirmed to come by the devs.
I dunno, it's always been an issue.
As for an LGBTq character, I'd like to see a source, and I wouldn't be too expectant. The next chapter is probably going to be a licensed character, and so we'll have a long time to wait.
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Probably not going to happen. Survivors have to fit into a set archetype, like Zarina, the punchy reporter, or Felix, the brilliant architect. That's what their perks and personalities are going to be based on.
The issue with adding LGBTQ survivors is that it's going to be a catch-22 for BHVR. If their archetype is the gay kid, they're going to be an effeminate "hey sisters" type character, which is going to garner much deserved criticism. If they don't make him James Charles, but still tack on that he's gay, it's going to garner criticism for being a diversity hire; they just tacked on the LGBTQ label for no reason other than diversity. There's no reason for them to deal with this, so they won't.
Believe me, I'd love to have a gay survivor who's just a normal person, but again, they either have to be offensive stereotypes or cheap diversity hires.
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The Game was typically a weak map for survivors, so I think they were trying to equalize it by adding pallets that seemed more like filler pallets, but turned out to be a little more powerful than intended.
Plus, the design of the game isn't traditional. You can have 3 jungle gyms next to each other on Macmillan Estate, but the Game is generated in square rooms that are enclosed off by walls. The reason that these pallets are in such proximity to each other is that, since these walls prevent movement between them, unlike Macmillan where you can go wherever the hell you want, it's more like running a maze. There is a set path you have to go, and you can't just run through the hedges whenever you like. The design philosophy answer to this is to make up for restricted mobility by introducing strong pallets, which they probably went a little overboard with.
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The solution to this is to have the servers automatically end matches with killers who end up getting weird, weird hits. They can detect if they aren't getting updates at a fast enough rate, and if the input is happening at such a choppy or plain inconsistent way (which is pretty easy to detect as a computer), the match is clearly going to be unfair and you should probably end it at that point, without any penalty. This is what most other internet services do. If they don't receive a timely response, they time out and go do something else.
To be fair, hit validation is still a valid strategy to prevent crap like this. It's just that it's still in its early stages, and isn't always active. The mechanisms for hit validation only activate when all conditions are met, and sometimes lagging clients manage to slip past. Plus, we don't actually know the success rate of hit validation because when it works, you don't know. Only when it fails do you notice.
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I used to play her, but she's just too much work, too many things to juggle. She's fun at low ranks when survivors are so inefficient that you have plenty of time to pick up pools of devotion and go to town, and cannot loop for their own lives (literally), but at high ranks, survivors won't cleanse (which is no criticism against them, that's how you're supposed to play against plague), you can't maintain enough pressure to afford the time to pick up a pool of devotion, and they're good at looping, especially at loops that might be relatively weak but can deny you of using your power. Even at loops where you can normally eat a stun and then turn around to smack them, it's a complete waste of time to actually have gotten your power.
As for fixing her, I think that it's very difficult to fix snowballing killers like this, just because if it goes well, it goes really well, but if it goes poorly, it goes really poorly. One idea was to have it so that cleansing survivors give her one token, and she can activate that token whenever she wants for corrupt purge, but that makes it so that you can just go on a 4 minute rampage of endless black vomit, which is way too much snowball. Even survivors who can loop well are going to find themselves zoned into a bad position eventually. Another idea was to have it so that stuns don't remove her power, but that would remove the one way you have to stop the snowball.
So, I think the solution isn't to either buff or nerf her, it's to make incremental changes to both buff and nerf her. For starters, add more particles or modify their trajectory and increase their velocity, to make it more graphically consistent. The most frustrating thing on plague is when you get what look like hits, but weren't actually hits.
After addressing the issue of her vomit, we can tackle the issue of actually modifying her play style. I might have it so that M1s cause infection, because if this lady is seriously vomiting that much then just being in the same ZIP code as her should get you sick. Somebody get her a pepto bismol. Getting infections is an absolute chore, and this might alleviate that
At this point, we get to the part of her that neither side likes. Nobody wants to be sick, because those stupid green particles make it hard to see and make you easy to track, but you don't ever want to cleanse. On the other hand, the plague doesn't want you to be sick, she wants you to cleanse so she can get her power. The solution here is to modify the corrupt purge. Perhaps, if you had it so that cleansing required the plague to go to the fountain of devotion to collect a token, which she could activate at any time, that would make it more balanced. I would also probably decrease charging time for corrupt purge as well as significantly reduce the amount of time a corrupt purge lasts. The survivor mindset that keeps them from cleansing is that being broken and easily trackable will be better than a 60 second corrupt purge, which has massive snowball potential, so if you remove that fear, you get more cleansing, and therefore a more interactive power. Plus, you don't have to worry about getting corrupt purge and taking 30 seconds to find someone anymore.
Now, since arbitrarily activatable corrupt purge seems a bit strong, I would probably have it so that the time would be reduced to 40, even 30 seconds, require a 5 second channel time to activate a token, and have a 10 second cooldown between using tokens to prevent 24/7 corrupt purge plagues. In addition, I would probably have it so that carrying a survivor pauses the timer of corrupt purge, but downing a survivor takes 5 or even 10 seconds off of the timer. Nobody likes slugs, not even me (I'm a killer main and I refuse to spend that much time looking for slugs), so we solve that inconvenience for both sides. One might also be inclined to slow down the corrupt purge timer while not in a chase; the second most frustrating feeling on plague is activating corrupt purge and getting no value out of it.
As for sickness, this might come off as a buff to plague by making her power more consistently useful, meaning it's still useful to not cleanse sometimes. In that case, sickness would receive a nerf to probably remove that ugly gas cloud as well as significantly reducing the extra noises. Being broken is already enough of a debuff.
TL;DR, activatable token based corrupt purge with reduced duration, a slowed down timer when not in a chase, a paused timer when carrying a survivor, 10 seconds taken away from that timer when you down a survivor, M1 causes infection, increase the velocity of vomit and the positioning of the vomit particles, make sickness less annoying to deal with
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Well, at red ranks, the only reason that two survivors would have to group up would be in a face camp, which we all know bubba excels at. Maybe at lower ranks, they might blunder and start grouping together, but Bubba is already oppressive enough in those ranks. So yeah, such an idea sounds good.
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Why on earth can't killer's just break the generators? A 5 year old can hit an engine with a wrench and take it out of service.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2009085#Comment_2009085
First of all how would any of this not be abusable against normal or friendly (12 hook) killer?
The slowdown on proximity approach was already tried --> survivor looped around the hook and abused it
old but had this protection for both rescuer and rescuer leaving the killer without any chance for counterplay.
And your anti tunnel idea doesn't sound much less oppressive/abusable.
Well, that's why we base it off of proximity. It's hard to get the conditions really fine-tailored enough to actually point of real camping, but most 12 hook killers won't be spending too much time around hooks. They'll be coming in to intercept hooks, or looking around for survivors near the hook, which is why it would just slow down the hook progress and immediately stop after they leave.
Plus, if you're really having that much trouble getting a survivor who's looping near the hook, it's not that much of a curse. Not only are you depriving them of a survivor, while pressuring them at the same time, you still do get to protect the hook. It'll be much slower, mind you, but it wouldn't punish the hooked survivor for having another survivor loop near them. Either that or you could prevent the slowdown from happening if the killer is in chase with another survivor nearby.
I assume you mean old BT. You forgot to mention that old BT proced once. This time, it would take up a second perk slot and you could probably tailor it to be more selective. Perhaps require that the killer maintain a specific amount of distance from the survivor in order for it to activate.
As for the anti-tunnel suggestion, the point isn't to not be oppressive. The point is to be so oppressive that if it gets to that point, then it'll proc, because at that point you're getting mercilessly tunneled and there's no need to go soft. It's incredibly hard to get it to proc, because tunneling is relatively rare, but if it does, it should aim to cripple. Plus, the easy counter is to just not commit to ludicrously long chases. Unlike DS, which is still abusable (even after the changes), this would be based off of a more rigid definition of tunneling, not hooks.
Moreover, because it requires you to get chased for so long, meaning you have loop decently, I'm also not getting your complaints about it being "abusable." Plus, just the presence of this perk would discourage tunneling. The knowledge that the killer could invest so much time into a tunnel, just to have it invalidated, would be a deterrent enough of it's own.
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So best case scenario, you'll get a silver survival emblem, meaning 2 points. Assuming you're red ranks, you'll need 9 points to safety pip. If all of your other emblems are silver or bronze, you'll depip. Considering that in most cases, facecampers will deprive you of benevolence points, you're pretty much automatically guaranteed max silver in both. If you get facecamped, you'll get one chase at most, meaning probably bronze boldness, or at most silver. That means that you have to be a gen slave and get gold, or even iridescent objectives in order to safety pip. It's pretty sad.
Unfortunately, that doesn't address the actual issue of facecamping. If I could have it my way, I would make it so that facecamping, directly proportional to the amount of time you facecamp, quickly causes the deduction of bloodpoints in the endgame, probably at a rate of 300 BP per second, so a facecamp of 2 minutes (a full face camp) will completely rob them of blood points, instead of pips. Nobody wants a rank 1 facecamper depipping to rank 15 and ruining that tier. Strike where it hurts, the bank account.
Survivor compensation should probably be addressed too. I'll admit, I've gotten 4ks that I absolutely did not deserve on the back of facecamps. It should probably trigger an automatic safety pip and a bloodpoint bonus too. I won't even speak of the in-game solutions.
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Since they're trying to morph it into an anti-tunnel perk, I think it should proc multiple times, and probably not require you to be hooked. If someone's going to tunnel, one measly 5 second stun isn't going to do the job; that's what a second chance perk does. If they have the knowledge that tunneling will make it nigh impossible to hook you, they won't tunnel. Plus; you could just get tunneled for 5 gens and hooked only at the end with NOED. Make it proc based off of the proportion of how long you've been chased compared to other survivors, or a flat accumulative requirement of seconds chased.
Really, this is way too complicated so I think that a dedicated anti-tunnel perk should be added, and DS should maintain its original second chance functionality.
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Play a different game. DBD can be one of the most infuriatingly toxic games out there, and there's nothing you can do.
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Laurie. She's literally a final girl.
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They should probably address it in the survivor base kit, or at least add some perks. DS is a fart in the hurricane and Borrowed Time is one extra hit, if they don't tunnel the rescuer anyways.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but there is a feature from a roblox DBD ripoff that may address this issue. Preferably as part of the base kit, they could have it so that the hook speed is significantly decreased while the killer is in close proximity. The intent of the devs was to make it so that camping robs the killer of pressure, but what usually happens is that one survivor is camped to death for two minutes, max efficiency survivors will churn through 3 gens (80 seconds each) and then they can team up to tackle the next gen, at which point the killer has 1.5 gens' worth of time to catch and camp another survivor, after which only 2 survivors escape. By slowing down hook progress by proximity (it would scale, so facecamping would reduce it to a crawl, proximity camping would extend it by a minute or two), it would carry out this intention of punishing their lack of pressure.
I would also be a fan of making it so that at a certain distance, the hook progress just stops, but that's boring and has potential for holding the game hostage.
Speaking of holding the game hostage, nothing is stopping a Bubba from waiting out the entire match with one hooked survivor, until endgame collapse happens and eventually shuts the whole operation down. That, however, would probably best be addressed by a perk that protects the rescuer, as well as the rescued survivor. You can hook dive with borrowed time, but then you're going to be hooked, getting the killer a completely undeserved kill. Perhaps a perk that lets the rescuer absorb a hit and protects them from grabs when the killer is nearby.
As for tunneling, that would probably be addressed by a perk (not DS). I won't speak to its specific design, but it should 1) not require you to be hooked, just to be tunneled. 2) proc multiple times, each time more debilitating than before. Once DS is out of the way, you bet that killers are going to continue tunneling you into the ground. 3) have minor functionality outside of anti-tunnel capacities. Tunneling is rare, but it's so incredibly unfun that you'd be obligated to run said perk. Might as well have it give you at least a minimal buff when you're not being tunneled.
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It's never really the best option to get salty, but since salt begets salt, and since Spirit can be one of the most frustrating killers to play against, (I used to main her, and then I played against her and devoted my life to Christ), don't expect any sympathy. Sure, there's a lot of undeserved stigma from people making obvious mistakes and rubbing it off as baby killer hard carry get good, but she's just generally boring to play against. Only hag would attract more vitriol.
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It's how they make money. Keep in mind that video game companies are constantly running on very, very thin margins, and since BHVR does't re-release its games, DLC's are the only source of income from veteran players.
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@Zesty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006620#Comment_2006620
Hey! I understand your frustrations with the Twins as the people behind them playing them are just doing the most obnoxious strategies :( Here is a link to my twins guide that may change your perception on the way they actually should/can be played <3 https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233212/the-ultimate-twins-guide#latest
Much appreciated.
That being said, I did write this from a survivor's perspective, and I really never got Twins as good as you; just face campers and pathological sluggers. I'll try out your tips for when I play her, though. Maybe babyslinging will turn out to be more fun than deathslinging.
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You'll get used to where immersed survivors hide. Just kill off their friends, gen patrol efficiently, and then wait for EGC. Don't be afraid to throw in some BM too; when I played survivor, immersed survivors would literally urban evade around the edges of the map from 5 gens to 5 minutes later after their teammates are all dead.
That being said, it is a legitimate play style, and isn't that efficient for the most part. Good killers will know not to waste time tracking, and to bring tracing perks in the first place. They'll keep up a strict patrol until they find a weak chain.
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Twins makes the mistake of bridging the gaps required to counter tunneling and camping, which isn't really healthy for anybody. A major issue of camping is that survivors will just churn through objectives, with the knowledge that you can only be at one place at a time (being in front of the hook). Now, with their dual presence, you can park Charlotte in front of the hook and go on a rampage with Victor's considerably faster speed. Then, you can switch back and not worry about BT. Plus, Victor is ridiculously good at slugging. With incredible mobility and a very difficult to counter lunge (once you get the hang of it; inexperienced Twins are going to suck). There is little interesting counterplay to them and they encourage camping.
Plus, I've played Twins for a while and they are just not that interesting. I prefer to throw hatchets instead of babies.
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@Zaytex said:
People just think Ruin is bad because they cannot pressure generators effectively, and this is coming from a killer main.
I play prayer beards spirit to combo it with surveillance, but I can't use it efficiently because it's cleansed.
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I would give my firstborn child and then some to have Annette Birkin as the survivor. Mom jeans and a lab coat is the peak of fashion in the entity's realm. Plus, we haven't had the "obsessed scientist" archetype for a character yet.
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@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003430#Comment_2003430
Well how about 60%
Well, I think it's inappropriate to assign one penalty for something that could encapsulate many different scenarios. DC/hookercide because of iridescent head huntress or potato teammates is different than DC/hookercide because you don't have good internet, which is different than DC/hookercide because your house is on fire, which is different than DC/hookercide because you just don't like this killer.
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@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003329#Comment_2003329
The only thing they should do is deprive 50% of the survivor's bloodpoints if they kill themselves on hook
Well 50% seems a little light, but again, it's all situational.
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There are behaviors that are annoying and those that are bannable, the latter being ones that cause direct and irreparable harm to the game. I do think that early game suicides should be met with the same thing as DC's, although even that's unfair considering that it doesn't account for glitches and legitimate times when your WiFi says aight imma head out, but it's a start. An all out ban, however, is absolutely ludicrous.
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It's not necessarily bad, but don't try to equate it to getting a 4-man escape. That requires coordination, strategy, and decent looping skill, in order to body block for injured survivors and arrange for healthy survivors to take hits, if there are any.