ShamelessPigMain
ShamelessPigMain
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He's the kind of killer that can exploit bad survivors very well. Simply being injured will contribute to his power; good survivors will know when and when not to greed. When in his fury, predictable survivors might as well be six feet under; good survivors know where he can and can't use his kanobo strikes effectively.
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2018599#Comment_2018599
I'm aware that BHVR intended for the FOV to be this small; that's how they coded it. I'm asking them to reconsider that decision, because it's bad from a game design standpoint. As mentioned earlier, it'd be like tying game volume to a perk and just telling people to run that -- I'm sure we can agree that it would be silly.
Well, they must have encoded it as such for a reason. The killer is generally to have less situational awareness than survivors; they have third person POV, we have first person.
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I think that BHVR wanted to retain control on this. There's a reason that they've set it at whatever they have (87 degrees I think), and that you need perks (things you need specifically to benefit you) to enhance it. Clearly, the angle of view is meant to be a restriction or limitation on the killer. They intended for the FoV to be this small; if they did add a slider, it would only be even narrower.
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Doctor with overcharge, unnerving, huntress' lullaby, and oppression. It's cartoon villain-level evil. I literally never hook anybody, just shock everybody to tier 2 and then go to town kicking gens until they beg for mercy.
*Insert plankton laughter*
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@Volfgang57 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016874#Comment_2016874
Alrighty, you're a tad off with that math. With tombstone piece it takes 5 points to get from tier 1 to 2, and 12.5 points to get from tier 2 to 3. (Tombstone piece adds 7.5 points to get to tier 3). So a total of 17.5 points to be able to kill one person (Judith's tombstone adds 10 points, so 20 point total to reach tier 3). Each survivor can only be stalked for 10 points, so you have to nearly -fully- stalk 2 different survivors (remember you can only absorb from one survivor at a time, so no stacking speed there).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BC5459JFT5N5/capture-png.png
At max efficiency, which is 2.5 meters away, you stalk at a rate of 0.8 points per second. 17.5 / 0.8 = 21.8 seconds. 22 seconds at *2.5 meters* away. That's over 20 seconds at basically arms length behind two different survivors. Not going to happen.
At minimum efficiency (40 meters) you stalk at a rate of 0.08 points per second. 17.5 / 0.08 = 218.75 seconds (or 3.6 minutes). And again I bring up my point of breaking line of sight, movement, and having to find 2 different survivors to do so.
At 50% efficiency (~20 meters) that stalk rate would be ~0.16 points per second. That's 109 seconds, or 1.8 minutes.
This is again assuming you can find at least 2 survivors, stalk them almost entirely out of charges, and never lose sight of them.
My point is, stalking takes significantly longer than you think
Looks like I missed the digit before the first sig fig. Oops on my end.
Either way, you're not going to be stalking at maximum inefficiency for the whole time, and either way, corrupt intervention is 2 minutes long. The strongest possible four gen plus ruin is going to immediately put survivors in the conundrum of feeding the killer points or idling around for 2 minutes. Even if they mange to pop a gen, which shouldn't happen if you're sticking to stalking and gen patrol, you can glean off enough points to have enough before the second gen pops, and 1 kill at 3 gens is pretty much the border between wins and losses.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017270#Comment_2017270
"Pigs rarely tunnel people with traps on."
You can I have VERY different experiences.
Pigs SHOULDN'T tunnel people with traps on, but I find they almost always do.
What ranks do you play at? I don't get pigs often, but the pigs I do get tend to be pretty good.
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I don't know what this is but I love it
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I'm not really getting the entailment here. Pigs rarely tunnel people with traps on; the timer pauses when in a chase or downed.
Although statistics can only tell so much, I doubt her kill rate is directly attributable to her base kit (which is pretty weak; stealth and ambushes are a breeze for experienced survivors), and even tampered timer/jigsaw's sketch has a 1/5 chance of getting a kill. I think that it's more due to the players who play her. Much like nurse, who attracts many players because of her reputation for being incredibly powerful, her kill rate is dragged down by players who don't know how to play her. Similarly, Pig is both fun and a challenge to play. But, we'll never know.
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There are many ways he can go, from chipping off of his expansive basekit to giving him an actual niche instead of jacking up everything on steroids. I guess what I'm trying to say is that either way, major overhaul or simple nerfs, both work.
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It would be a nice quality of life change, but I don't know if she'd need one. She's already pretty strong.
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What they mean is that co-op repairs won't give you extra emblem points, unlike bloodpoints (to which co-op repairs contribute). The wiki is worded in a very weird way, so try to interpret each individual point as completely independent of the others.
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The concept sounds spot on. PH is a spectacular tunneler too, so I think cages should activate the same perks that hooks do. It's free tunnel estate.
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Yeah, stealth killers are a pain when you're not used to them.
The solution will come with time. Eventually, you'll begin to predict their approach. Maybe even try giving him a play; to defeat the enemy, you must understand the enemy.
And yes, his reveal mechanic can be a bit suspect at times. Just keep in mind that you have to have 20% of his hitbox (which protrudes a little bit outside of his character model) within the center 26% of your screen (that 26% is shaped like a box, so imagine you taking your screen and shrinking it down to 26% size). Keep in mind that your character model blocks line of sight.
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Tell us that when you dig into the save files and give us the proof that it's on.
The reason matchmaking is celebrating gay pride every day is because the queue times are so long. There's just too many survivors right now, and that means that 1) you get longer queue times while the matchmaker waits for available players 2) when it doesn't find similarly-ranked players, it just pairs you up with whatever else it can get its hands on.
Don't be so presumptuous. The answer isn't always what you suspect.
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I suspect that might be a bit overpowered.
Plus, they have the same concept in dead hard. The downside to easy accessibility is that dead hard gets you less bang for your buck, in terms of distance. Clearly, BHVR felt that an on-demand sprintburst would be a bit broken, so they compensated by taking away from net distance gained.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016941#Comment_2016941
"you know x, y and z"?
my argument is that hooks are just as important to killers as they are to survivors... what are you smoking?
For the last 4 comments in this thread you've always given your claim and "and you know it" with some other half-baked nonsensical idea about hooks.
Anyhow, welcome to middle school English, where we learn that an argument needs to have a claim and reasoning. Take a guess on which you're missing.
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I think that the first change would be inconsequential, or possibly detrimental. I prefer the global cue because it won't warn survivors that I'm teleporting near them, much like spirit and prayer beads bracelet.
As for the second change, I think that many be a bit overkill; imagine if nurse could swing once and immediately blink again. I do think a reduced cooldown, adding rat liver to base kit, and maybe more steering while shredding would suffice.
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Claudette and Dwight just need some anti-anxiety medication and some artificial tears. That and maybe Quentin.
Survivors don't look half bad, though. David could still step on me and I wouldn't complain.
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@Amy095 said:
Could you imagine the bugs??
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COGZ6NFL2XDR/6w6yuz2imz251.jpg
FBI open up
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No, ace in the hole only lets you keep addons that you escape with.
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Hi, welcome to the DBD community, the most toxic environment on earth since Chernobyl.
Although this stuff is welcome, it's rare, just because this game tends to attract the scum of the earth (me included).
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It's a very difficult mechanic to address. See, just seeing him won't do, because you can just spin your camera around until you get the sound cue. But otherwise, there's no way to know if a survivor actually knows he's there.
So, they made it so that you have to have a certain percentage of his hitbox within a percent of the center of your screen. This is somewhat better, since you need to deliberately zoom in on him, but the issue comes with the fact that 1) hitboxes are somewhat bigger than character models; just as huntress and 2) the survivor character model blocks ghost face's hitbox. If he's right behind you and you know he's there, but your character model is in the way, it won't register.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016788#Comment_2016788
I know you wanna pretend that not losing is somehow more important than winning. but it isn't. in fact, it's the same.
you do not have an argument. just stop.
Right, and this is coming from the guy whose best argument is "you know x, y and z."
I'll be waiting for when you get a real refutation, or until the universe collapses in on itself. Whichever comes first.
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Sarcasm aside, it's underwhelming. If survivors are just sticking on gens instead of saving teammates, then those few seconds aren't going to make a difference. Plus, it incentivizes them to group up, which is something they typically don't want to do. Pressuring two survivors at once is a boon for me, if anything.
That being said, I don't think gen speed perks should be introduced, other than maybe the new survivor perk, which is more of a salvage to help you in a game that isn't going so well.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2014653#Comment_2014653
Never overestimate what STBFL will do for you. A survivor can just hold forward and early drop pallets and you won't get anything out of it.
That's assuming that they find a pallet, and even if they do, it's cut down distance. It's guaranteed you to help you in some way, although how much help you get is dependent on your situation, but they're bodyblocking for you, you already know that they aren't scouting or waiting at a pallet.
What can I say? It's free real estate.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016818#Comment_2016818
Yes they wont go into chases, that would be stupid.
But survivors arent stupid too. If they notice whats going on (which they really should when they notice he just keeps stalking without really chasing them) they will just split up and start bashing out the gens. If they get spotted they just run a bit and then head instantly back to the gen. You cant pressure 4 gens at once, and since you arent actively chasing, hooking or injuring someone, they will get back to the gens really fast.
Of course solo q exists, but thats a other problem which should be looked into but once solo got the buff it deserves, he really wont be a problem.
Again, the great thing about Michael is that you don't need to chase in order to pressure. Just being close with line of sight is enough, and since 30 seconds of max distance stalking is enough to get a charge, you just have to pretty much cycle through the four gen, getting as close as possible, moving along once they try to break LoS or make distance, until you have enough charges to pop your tier III and go to town.
Forget going to town, you're taking a jet plane into downtown. Getting rid of one survivor before 3 gens is already a good omen.
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@Volfgang57 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016801#Comment_2016801
Except it's not that easy to stalk. If you're far enough away from a survivor that they don't notice you they're going to be moving somewhere and probably breaking line of sight a lot + the further away from a survivor you are the longer it takes to charge up your Evil Within. If you get closer to charge faster then most competent survivors are going to notice you and run.
You're underestimating just how long it actually takes to fully charge a tombstone piece because it takes a lot longer than 2 minutes unless you're able to just stand right behind someone that entire time (and I mean -right- behind them)
That's the point; if they run away, then the gen regresses. If they don't, they contribute to charging your stalk. That's the dilemma you put them in.
As for calculating tombstone piece charge time (not considering getting out of tier I which is pretty easy), the amount of charge required to tier up is 5 points. Judith's Tombstone (I prefer tombstone piece personally but hey), increases that by 200% to 10 stalk points. The equation to calculate stalk points per seconds is .333333333 stalk points per second at max inefficiency. 10/.33333 means 30 seconds of stalking, worst case scenario, while stalking one survivor at max range and max inefficiency. That's a far cry from 2 minutes, but it can be a hassle to get. Hope that you get survivors who suck it up and let you get the stalk points.
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1 year ago I thought of a perk:
"sksksksksk save the turtles" - vsco girls say windows kill turtles, survivors who vault windows or pallets block that window or pallet so they don't kill the turtles kskskskskskskskskksksksks
Badabing, badaboom, Hex: Crowd Control.
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Well, horror is subjective. His story is pretty disturbing, and his aesthetic of the murderous madonna attention ######### is certainly an unexplored trope. Horror isn't just body mutilation and shiny weapons, after all. Horror has a bunch of teens with masks that a preschooler made, a lady with a pig mask, a literal clown (figuratively and physically), a Russian furry who throws axes, and a skinny queen other dimensional monster whose face I'm not going to even try to describe, all of whom you can drop pallets on and T-bag.
DBD is not horror, it's a slasher game. As long as there's violence and disturbing stories, it fits the bill.
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@Lefrongo said:
Yeah better not to criticize or say anything otherwise you're gonna be called out as a "homophobe" by anyone as of now.
The only homophobic thing here is insinuating that anybody will purple hair and stupid clothes a homosexual. Neither the devs nor any sensible person gives 32 shits about whose pants he wants to get in.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016801#Comment_2016801
If you cant pressure gens fly fast and ruin/undying is completly useless. Only bad survivors let michael stalk that much before atleast 2 gens popped.
Normally you should get done atleast 3/12 - 4 gens before he reaches tier 3 then. Atleast in my SOLO matches we always get that many gems done unless my mates are COMPLETE potatos.
I think you're missing my point. You just said that if you can't pressure gens, then they fly without ruin, which is try. You then said that letting Michael stalk then is for bad survivors. It's a dichotomy between the two. Any Michael who knows what they're doing in this won't commit to chases, they'll glean as many stalk points as they can. They either break line of sight/stalk or they keep doing the gens and let him stalk the hell out of them.
I think you forgot I mentioned corrupt intervention too. Snowball killers like Michael benefit immensely from corrupt, especially with ruin.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016776#Comment_2016776
Just like @Volfgang57 already said, even then it they must be terrible at the game when they get stalked that much, especially since a stalking myers have almost no pressure.
The point of stalking Myers is to not apply pressure. It's to let the survivors feel relaxes so that you can glean as much stalk from them as you need. With the strongest 4-gen possible and ruin, survivors who stay on gens will feed you points, but if they leave the gens to break line of sight, they let the gen regress in their face. Decent survivors aren't just going to sit around for 2 minutes, so they'll be persistent and feed you a considerable amount of stalk points.
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@Volfgang57 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016776#Comment_2016776
Even with Corrupt and Ruin, the amount of time it takes to charge a tombstone piece would mean the survivors are awful
The point is that corrupt essentially gives you the strongest 4 gen possible, and ruin ensures that the pressure you keep up the entire time doesn't go to waste. Charging up evil within only requires line of sight, and the only other option is to run around and do nothing for 2 whole minutes.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016280#Comment_2016280
no no no. don't move the goal post.
"hooks concern the survivors more than the killer"
this is incorrect. that's it.
hooks to a killer are just as important as they are to a survivor.
Well as I said multiple times, in case you happen to be blind, the loss of dying is much more important to the survivor team, especially when they can be removed in parts (removing individual sections lets you snowball much better than by having to chip away at the whole team until collapses at once).
And I'm not moving the goal post as much as you are trying to narrow the field. There are always multiple reasons for any given goal.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016252#Comment_2016252
If you get it to happen before one gen pops, the survivors are the worst ones you can imagine.
That's why I stipulated that you need corrupt and ruin.
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I think that the stalk points of a survivor should be increased slightly. What inevitably happens is that one survivor always ends up being your stalk point loans officer, and that's the one who can loop, so instead of going for hits, you stalk them. But then, when you find the survivors who can't loop, you tier up on them and kill them, before you can fully drain them of their stalk reservoir. I feel like, when survivors are sacrificed, any stalk points they had left should be redistributed evenly amongst all remaining survivors. Imagine what would happen if plague only had a certain amount of vomit she could use, or if oni had a set amount of blood that would be dropped and nothing after that. It's just a terrible economic situation.
Indefinite stalk points might be overdoing it, though. That would probably have to coincide with an increase to the required amount of stalking.
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Unfortunately, not all survivors are thrill-seekers. Some want to escape (surprising, I know).
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It's very rare to see anybody in this community who isn't a total jackass. This is the most toxic environment on Earth, surpassing Chernobyl, surpassing a literal bottle of cyanide, surpassing Congress, and it's very rare to see such people.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2016233#Comment_2016233
no. you're reaching, and you know it.
I'm sure to take this from the guy who hasn't even made a single cogent argument this entire conversation.
The simple fact is that a survivor-esque hook counter isn't necessary for killers. If you're good enough to need a hook counter, you're going to already be able to tabulate hooks , and you just need the net sum as a nice little helper. If you're not good enough and you need the hook counter, the game is essentially just giving you directions on who to tunnel.
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I think it may be bugged again. Emblems have been bugged in the past.
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Yeah, it was meant to be balanced by increasing the amount of stalking required, but it's still a ridiculously powerful and is a well-worth trade. If you run corrupt and ruin too, you can get one survivor out of the game before the first gen pops, and just snowball like hell from there.
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She has a steep learning curve, but her base kit is relatively strong. Bad spirits against bad survivors will result in 3ks, for most parts. Once you get used to her, which means not only having a good headset but also predicting what survivors will do and where survivors will go, her skill ceiling is much, much higher, and she becomes much more difficult to counter.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015830#Comment_2015830
"hooks concern the survivors more than the killer"
that statement is still wrong
Not necessarily. People care more about not losing than necessarily winning, and hooks are the mechanisms by which survivors lose. Killers win via the hooks, but as stated before, it's more important not to lose than it is to win, especially in a community as toxic as this.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015987#Comment_2015987
Yeah it isn't because the devs were clearly playing it too safe while designing him. But they clearly intended for people to use the portals to sneak up on people; why else would they create a whole new status effect for him?
It could be a strong part of his kit if they just tweaked him further.
Well, I think that 1 second of undetectable isn't exactly meant to help stealth up on people, I think it's just to prevent them from getting a head start. That's what that one ultra red is for. I think they're more for map mobility in general.
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They are. Survivors are naturally at a disadvantage, since they can't exactly fight, and they have 25% of the power of their team. In order to loop efficiently, it takes a considerable amount of skill.
As for spirit, Freddy, etc. Freddy I can agree is a pretty low skill ceiling for a lot of power, but Spirit can get stomped by survivors who know what they're doing. Just like stealth killers, Spirit is an absolute noob-stomper, but against a skilled team, she can become the stompee.
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I play a fair bit of demo and I don't worry about it much. With his massive footsteps, I don't think the stealth aspect is ever a big part of his kit.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2013915#Comment_2013915
"hooks concern the survivors more than the killer"?
hooks is literally how you win the game as killer...
Hooks are also how you lose the game as survivor. To the killer, as long as you get sacrifices you're done. It doesn't matter who. To survivors, who need to be more cooperative and altruistic by the very nature of there being 4 of them, it's more important to have that information to juggle who should take on the killer.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2002347#Comment_2002347
Correct. We all remember the old DS. However, that perk was not healthy for the game. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. The only good thing about the Old DS, was that you could completely avoid it by juggling the survivor.
As awful as old DS was, that's still the unfortunate intent behind the original iteration. Fortunately, I think having DS tied to some sort of limitation, such as being hooked, took off some of that pressure. Plus, DS is getting less and less popular to carry. I really don't think they should be trying to fit it into this mold of an anti-tunnel perk.
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I'd disagree. BT is pretty easily counterable by not going for the recently unhooked survivor, which is a pretty rude move anyhow. Plus, if you're already in a chase, instead of leaving to tunnel a survivor off of the hook, you're already preoccupied.
Yes, it's annoying that survivors can bodyblock hits with BT, but then it's out of the way and you can smack them again. Bodyblocking means that they aren't making distance, and if you have a quick down killer, or STBFL, they're screwed.
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He's very much dependent on skill. Stealth killers are incredibly strong against noobs, but experienced survivors will know to look around in order to preempt your approach. Then, it's a game of map knowledge and subterfuge to get the expose and a quick down. Assuming you've got equally skillful killers and survivors, he's probably low A.