Rydog
Rydog
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Cue someone from Behaviour coming in to go ACHIEVEMENTS ARE TOO HARD TO CHANGE, because they didn't think this through at all.
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I know some people here are being GIT GUD, WUT R U CASUL gatekeepers, but I just wanted to say it gets easier to deal with these things you've described, once you start understanding the nuances of how the game flows.
Survivors have a lot of power over the killer, but that isn't immediately obvious when you're new to the game. It's kind of a school of hard knocks -- as is every other game in this genre. I remember feeling this way when I first started playing Friday the 13th, and I wound up understanding that the killer in that game is very powerless against experienced survivors.
DBD isn't quite as insane as that game when it comes to the balance of power, but I promise you'll start to look at some of this stuff differently in time.
Except for moris. Those kinda do suck for exactly the reasons you described (plus they actually hurt the killer's score).
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@ASAPTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757724#Comment_757724
Having the game go on longer than it needs to be isn't a challenge. Its unnecessary. A challenge is like going up against a good Nurse or Billy.
I'm not advocating holding a match hostage, but it's in the killer's best interests to delay gen completion. It's how they accomplish their entire goal; the game is a clock that they have to beat, so obviously there is gonna be a bias toward perks that make that clock as forgiving as possible.
I feel like people here willfully choose to not comprehend this sort of thing.
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Spoiler warning, that dude definitely gets EW3'd right after this.
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@justarandy I would also encourage them to change the struggle phase to an automatic thing that doesn't require you to mash the space bar, and that presents no option to give up. If you are going to play the game, then play the bad wording game.
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Traps have been this way forever. A normal person would come to the reasonable conclusion that if it were an exploit, it would have been fixed by now.
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I have recently felt like there have been a few hits on me while vaulting through windows that really should not have hit. It's as if the killer has a longer arm now.
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Wat
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I hear Roger Federer is the GOAT on corn maps.
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@doitagain_ said:
Boring is not the same thing as "difficult". I notice a lot of forum posters on here call anything they have trouble with "boring" when they are just having a hard time adapting to certain killers.
"YOU'RE WINNING! THAT'S BORING!"
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@ASAPTurtle said:
If your doing Forever Freddy I'm leaving the game. Not because it's "OP" it's cause it's a waste of my time. I'm dying either way. And perks or builds that relate to generators are so boring and old now. Get creative.
"If you're going to challenge me, I'm not playing!"
Come on, dude.
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@Bwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757649#Comment_757649
By this logic you should just accept the game as it is without a DC punishment system.
This is the game. Either play it, or stop playing.
Arguing that players should accept the game mechanics as presented... is very different than arguing that players should accept other players not accepting the game mechanics as presented.
I'm not arguing against garbage mechanics needing changes. I'd love to see Moris reworked, or certain maps redesigned, and so on, just as much as anyone.
What I'm saying is, when you sit down and decide to play the game, you're committing to accepting what you're about to play, warts and all. If that's such a big problem that you are going to leave mid-match, you shouldn't be playing in the first place, and the game's disconnect punishment should convey that.
November 3 will be my one-year anniversary in this game, and I have never disconnected from a single match, not once, for any reason. When I sit down to play Dead by Daylight, it means I want to play Dead by Daylight.
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@Mert_MK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757595#Comment_757595
Bloodlust is pretty silly at pallets. Some killers are still forced to break them but his power promotes to make use of this until you catch up at a Pallet/Jungle Gym etc.. It does waste a lot of his time though which is why i said earlier i can live with it. It's just annoying that's all.
You're describing the snare's entire use case though. This is what it's supposed to do. Same with Bloodlust.
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@justarandy said:
Forget about punishments. The devs need to fix some serious issues first before trying to punish DC. The reason WHY people DC needs to be addresses first. And i'm not talking about the salty Survivors DCing against a wraith who outplayed them. I'm talking about stuff like prayer beads, Bubba basement with insidious etc.
Once that bs is addresses you can try to implement a punishing system. Otherwise you all the people who DC now will just evade the softban by just suiciding on hook instead.
But what you describe is why I suggest that we need it. Players shouldn't be dc'ing because of subjective red lines over this or that mechanic. This is the game. Either play it, or stop playing.
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Premonition's description also says that it overrules all killer stealth abilities. Between that and EW1's description, both cannot be true.
Aura-reading perks are one thing. Yes, I think it makes reasonable sense for stealth killers to not get revealed by Object of Obsession, Alert, or other aura perks, because these completely destroy stealth.
Spine Chill and Premonition don't do this. They provide imperfect information about the killer's movements. Remember that even when these perks are working, the user is still not getting a terror radius or a red stain, so they still have way less information to go off of.
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I have to assume this kind of conduct is bannable.
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He's not fun because he uses stalling tactics that make the game tougher or more inconvenient for the survivors? I mean, every killer can and should do that. It's the game.
"Also doesn't help that most Freddy players like to bloodlust you with snares." That's... a chase? What did you want the killer to do with this power instead?
I don't get it.
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Truth be told, I tend to favor Sprint Burst over other exhaustion perks because I don't have to think a whole lot about it. It's just there, and it works when I need it (which is usually when I'm fleeing from a gen when the killer is inbound).
@Mochan brings up an interesting point about it being a poor perk because it disincentivizes running. I've always seen this in a positive light, because Sprint Burst forces me to be more mindful of when and why I am running, as careless scratch marks can open you up to risk when you do nothing but run. So, I usually always try to run with purpose when I am sure it's not going to give me away unnecessarily. Am I wrongheaded in thinking this way? Why or why not?
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@Mochan said:
Yeah unless you're really, really bad at the game you will naturally just level up eventually if you play enough.There's a point where some level of skill is needed to weed out getting pips, but getting into purple also annoys me.
My "real" skill level as a survivor is around purple. This is the level that I am challenged and must put in a lot of effort to win and/or pip. Frankly I rather stay in green so I can goof off and have fun. But I level out of green a little too fast and without any real effort.
As for the game being a "rage inducer" I know BHVR doesn't want to design the game that way but you're right, a lot of us don't have as good control over our emotions, that includes me. I imagine if I get killer-stressed long enough I'd also hate it. I think I probably just don't play enough killer to be affected by it.
Right there with you, I am currently climbing purple-rank survivor pips inch by hard-fought inch. Most games are a safety pip, and I have to be on-point to get anything better. This is where I reliably end up at the end of every season these days, though. I really wish the effort to get a pip was flat all the way from 1-20.
As far as rage-inducing design, eh, it's a problem of the genre. These games are highly adversarial by their very nature, and that's going to lead to a lot of angry people. I just wish more folks here could step back and actually evaluate their emotions, what's making them feel that way, and why they can't self-regulate and accept the game for what it is. I suppose it's a personal failing of mine that I post and discuss things here under the assumption that most of us here are well-adjusted, normal adults like I (mostly-ish) am, when a lot of people are probably just impulsive kids who are unlikely to have that level of self-reflection.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/756590#Comment_756590
You actually have a point, and I doubt that I would ever get stressed playing as Killer. I just don't buy into the whole "Must get 4K!" mindset that every killer seems to suffer from, which makes them feel so stressed while playing. I let the illusion of "must escape!" go so long ago as Survivor.
I'd have to get into Red Rank Killer to test if it's true, but I can't imagine myself getting upset and stressed the way killers describe it. I've even run games where the survivors ran circles around me as Killer and smashed palletes into my face all game, wasn't stressful at all.
Sort of how killers can't imagine that being face-tunneled or Mori'd in under a minute is stressful.
Stress is the reaction some players choose to have to those things, whether they know it or not. It's what leads them here to make enraged posts about how everything is BS and unfair, and to try to turn "killer mains" and "survivor mains" into political parties.
Getting pallets smashed in your face, being blinded by flashlights, getting one-shot downed by EW3 Myers, getting one-shot downed by Huntress running red hatchet add-ons, Spirit mindgames, insta-heals, keys, Brand New Parts, NOED, Moris, "gen rush," whatever -- it's all part of the game. If I see a dude insta-heal in a chase, or if I get tricked by a standstill Spirit, I just go "darn, I got outplayed" and continue with the game. People can teabag or flashlight-click all they want, it's fine, whatever. I accept the game as it is.
I have put forward ideas in other threads on how to change this or that, or where it's realistic to expect the balance of power to sit, and you all know by now that I am more than happy to express frustrations about the grind. But regarding the game as a moment-to-moment rage-inducer -- and then continuing to play it anyway -- is just silly.
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@Xboned I didn't know you have never played survivor! It really is a different worldview, in terms of what's frustrating and what isn't.
One big thing I would point out, especially at the rank you're in, is that it's really hard because survivors literally don't do anything at that rank. They don't finish gens even if someone loops the killer for minutes at a time, they let people die on the first hook, they just sit and hide. It gets easier as you climb up into the high yellow/low green ranks, because people have started to learn how to properly play the game and make progress.
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"Stealth" is supposed to mean something specific. I'm sure you can understand why it would be healthy to tamp down on exceptions in a game that is already full of them.
Also, Myers isn't meant to stay in EW1 forever. And I know some of his add-ons incentivize or mandate it, but you can't expect them to balance entire mechanics around these kinds of edge cases.
Also, complaining that Spine Chill counters stealth is a bit like complaining that Iron Will counters Spirit's power, or Calm Spirit counters Doctor. It's how the game works.
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@joshuashep22 said:
Ah yes... my old and still favourite perk was butchered ruthlessly by the game development anyone else remember when it was a god tier perk? These days if you use mettle of man you will likely end up getting yourself killed trying to get protection hits that don't even register.
Yes, tons of people remember. It was added into the game less than six months ago, so it's not like it's that old.
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@silverwolf4455 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/756367#Comment_756367
If they do start soft banning then people will just kill themselves on first hook. So the killer will still lose points and prolly depip.
I would definitely support counting first-hook suicides as a disconnect (unless they wait out the struggle bar all the way down to the bottom), since there's no reason to do it. They'd also need to change the garbage struggle mechanic so that you're not mashing the space bar the whole time, though.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/756043#Comment_756043
Joking, kind of. I do not see a problem with people leaving against Iri Hatchets. It seems many people do this and it likely deters Huntresses from using them.
But... this is exactly the kind of thing I'm proposing a solution to. People disconnect to protest others using game options that they don't like -- this-or-that add-on, or item, or map, or killer, or whatever, and then offer this kind of justification for it. This should be discouraged. Either play the game, or don't play the game if you have that much of a problem with it.
As far as random DCs go, I mean... I dunno. This is anecdotal, but I've been randomly disconnected maybe three or four times in the entire year that I have played. Let's assume that I am proposing this as a system that would exist after they've ironed out whatever pertinent issues exist with dedicated servers and whatnot.
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I am a consistent purple rank survivor player, slowly creeping my way up toward red ranks. This is my current build, which I believe has helped me crack the pip requirements of purple ranks more than any other build I've used:
- Iron Will
- Urban Evasion
- Premonition
- Spine Chill
This is an aggressive stealth build with no exhaustion perks. Its purpose is to allow me to pinpoint where the killer is coming from (using both Spine Chill and Premonition as a reliable radar), and to break line of sight and perform close-proximity stealth jukes (using Urban Evasion and the silence that Iron Will buys me when injured). I haven't been using it for too terribly long, but it has done a lot for my average pip growth in purple ranks, since it allows me to tail the killer for unhooks, and be pretty aggressive with gen objectives.
It's not so great for chases in wide-open areas without many LOS-breakers, though. But the chase has always been my big weak point as a survivor -- so I try to play to my strengths.
EDIT: Oh, and it's also a pretty hard counter for a lot of Nurse, Spirit, and Hag tactics. Killers like Myers and Ghostface can really trip me up, though. Stridor and Monitor & Abuse are the banes of my existence.
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The best counter to Spirit is to stop running so much. Walk more, and you'll take away a lot of her leverage during a pursuit.
Pair that with Iron Will, and you've got a pretty good defense against her.
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The reason red ranks are full of Nurse, Spirit, and Hillbilly is because they are the strongest killers with the best odds of winning. The end.
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@Gibberish Agreed that some of the potential cosmetics from those movies would look cool, regardless of the films' quality. They could do those, the bedsheet like you said, any mask version, bandaged Michael from Halloween 4, the ugly old man mask from Halloween 5, or heck even Michael wearing some of the Halloween 3 masks. :D
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...and while we're at it, incidentally, they could theoretically offer us some different coveralls, too. The jumpsuit that Michael wears in the original 1978 Halloween film is not dark gray or blue as is often portrayed in artwork (and in later movies); it is a spruce green color. You can see this most clearly in the daylight scenes where Michael is stalking Laurie on her way to and from school.
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@TheShape78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/753459#Comment_753459
As a huge Halloween fan myself, I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out :)
Haha, no problem. I know way more than anyone reasonably should about that franchise. I will go to bat for any argument related to more Myers mask cosmetics. 😃
Darn right!!
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/753308#Comment_753308
What do you mean wat(sic)? The Myers mask was a William Shatner mask originally. Though variations of it came after do to deterioration it was always supposed to be that same mask.
You're going to make me go all Halloween uber-dork on you.
The mask used in the first two movies was the Shatner mask, yes. They bought it for cheap at a costume shop, and modified it as seen onscreen. By the time of Halloween 2, the mask had yellowed after years of storage under co-creator Debra Hill's bed, but it is indeed the same mask used in the original. Canonically, this mask burns up with Michael at the end of Halloween 2.
In Halloween 4, we see a newly ambulatory Myers grab a mask off a display at a drugstore. Common sentiment is that this mask is meant, in-universe, to be a cheap knockoff, and it definitely looks the part. It does not remotely resemble the Shatner mask except in the most general of details.
Halloween 5 used an entirely different sculpt. I know the Halloween 4 mask did not fit Halloween 5 actor Donald P. Shanks' head, so they had a new mask made, and it looks awful. Canonically, this would be the same mask that was worn in Halloween 4, but they look nothing alike.
There's no "mask continuity" in terms of Halloween 6; Michael just shows up wearing a mask, which looks quite a lot better than the last two masks. Canonically, we might assume this is still the Halloween 4 mask.
Halloween H20 and Resurrection ignore all sequels past Halloween 2, and Michael again shows up in a new mask (a couple of different ones in various scenes, incidentally -- and a totally different and ugly one in Resurrection). We can assume he acquired a new mask after the original one burned in Halloween 2.
The Rob Zombie mask was a sculpt that I believe was based on the original Shatner mask (my knowledge here is hazy because I actively avoid those two trash movies), but it is again different and distinct.
The mask used in Halloween 2018 is a painstakingly recreated version of the Shatner mask, made to look dirty, aged, and weathered. Canonically, it is supposed to be the original mask from Halloween 1978 (this movie ignores all sequels), and it retains the damage done to it at that movie's climax.
So, canonically, yes, Myers wore different masks, with obviously different sculpts. One assumes that these masks could be represented as different cosmetic outfits in DBD, barring whatever licensing restrictions Behaviour must abide by.
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@Mr_K said:
Lvl 40 + you will see the difference.
Taking the cheapest route I've managed to get Demogorgon P3-50 with under 1.5 mil on all four 1-50s. Previous killers took around 1.7 so it seems a bit cheaper overall if your goal is lvl 50.
From lvl50 onward for all perks you can grab 2 perks for about 50k per web.
"It gets good after the first 200 hours" is not a great selling point for anything.
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I am pretty sure they can't fix the problems with dedicated servers unless they understand when and why they go wrong.
They cannot collect this data from the PTB's small sample size, nor can they just cast a magic spell and make it all better.
What else would you realistically have them do?
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The lack of any follow-through with this system is aggravating.
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Dog survivor please. I will always bring all best boys and girls to the hatch.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
The William Shatner mask is all Myers ever wore.
Wat
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@Hey_Its_James said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746775#Comment_746775
If you could do more than one challenge, it would be too easy to go through them, considering that you do most of those things in a game, unhook, do a gen, kicking gens and such, if you can remember your challenges from the list, you'd be burning through.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, so please hold on and read all the way before commenting.
...WHO CARES?
I'd rather have have fast and player-convenient than slow and nitpicky and grindy.
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Undetectable is immunity to detection perks. As far as I can tell, the design intent is to standardize how stealth works across all killers, and for Spine Chill and Premonition to function through Undetectable. These two perks are different from aura perks, because they give the survivor much less reliable information. They're like the survivor version of Whispers.
Having an exception to the rule that Behavior has created would defeat the entire design purpose of Undetectable, and it would be a roundly stupid idea to just disable both of those perks versus half the killers in the game.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747209#Comment_747209
Honest question. Do you not see the danger of allowing these mechanics in paid games? If they are accepted then it will only get worse. I suppose Horse Armor was before you time.
Every non-F2P game that has implemented this kind of system has encountered backlash. I know you guys want to do mental gymnasticss to defend a company's every action, but this is shameless double-dipping, and it is predatory.
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@Xboned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/748034#Comment_748034
I'm happy to say that I ended the night's session at level 47 Freddy and rank 3 BBQ unlocked, which is a nice improvement from level 39/0 BBQ. You may be onto something with regards to the bloodweb wanting to "complete" perks.
My endgame build mostly revolved around Blood Warden and NOED, but that hasn't really been panning out. Either I crush the survivors before the exit gates power up, or they're so well-coordinated that it doesn't matter. NOED cleansed, gate at 99% to avoid Blood Warden until the last second. Too many groups of all red ranks late at night.
My other build is close to yours, only I don't have Pop because I hate playing Clown, and I missed it when it was in the shrine, so it's BBQ/Ruin/Whispers/???. Now that I've actually gotten everything I was after on Freddy though, it might be time to sink some BP into the wheezy bastard. I hate not having Pop, it seems like such a crucial regression tool.
You know me, this is usually where I'd start to complain about the grind, but hopefully this should be pretty manageable from here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/748077#Comment_748077
Thanks, I appreciate that. I've tried very hard to be a decent killer in all respects. No tunneling, no camping (until the gates pop anyway), no DCs or lobby dodging. Still no DCs so far, but it's getting to the point that, yeah, unless I want to go full tilt it's probably best to avoid certain games.
I also rather dislike Clown, but I use my mains as BP batteries to level up other killers and unlock teachables. Pop Goes the Weasel is a really great perk to have, and it synergizes particularly well with Freddy's teleport.
Sometimes I swap Pop out for Franklin's Demise if I see a lobby full of items. And I'm rather looking forward to the day when I can drop BBQ (once I don't need the BP for anything critical) and replace it with Discordance. I've also been meaning to try out Save the Best for Last on Freddy, seems like it'd work out pretty well for him.
(And yay for Whispers! I know some people think it's a waste of a perk slot, but I can barely function without it.)
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@Xboned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747484#Comment_747484
Okay, you were right. I got rank 1 BBQ at 40 and rank 2 at 41. Would have liked that a long time ago, but now it's here and I'm back to making proper bank.
I shifted over to an endgame build per the advice of @DudeDelicious and that's been pleasant, too. Tones down the sweat factor significantly and I much prefer it to Ruin. I still do my best to keep the gens from popping, but I no longer feel my heart rate climbing with each completion notification.
Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. The worm has turned.
Heck yeah! It seems to me, anecdotally -- and I MUST STRESS that I have no data to back this up, and this is based entirely on my own personal observations -- that some Bloodweb perk nodes seem to "prefer" perks that you have already gained 1-2 ranks in. In other words, if you buy a perk, the game will offer higher ranks of that perk to you in the next Bloodweb or two.
What kind of endgame build are you finding success with? I use my cookie-cutter BBQ / Ruin / Pop Goes the Weasel / Whispers build on Freddy at the moment.
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Also, how many teachables do you have unlocked? If it's not that many, you're gonna have an easy time getting BBQ once Freddy hits 40. The extra perks in the Bloodweb at 40+ really makes a difference.
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@Xboned said:
So, I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I've been playing for a few months on a very casual basis, killer main. I identify myself as being a green ranks killer, skill-wise, but I'm midway through the purple ranks now.
Basically, this happened because I fell in love with Freddy and started grinding like crazy on him to get BBQ so I could make lots of BP and then spread that around to my underleveled killers. Level 39 and no BBQ still, but... I actually do pretty well when I play him. Far better than I do with any other killer.
I'm torn, because I feel like this particular killer is letting me play above my skill level and I'm starting to encounter increasingly sweaty teams. I've dodged a few lobbies now, something I told myself I would never do. The last one I dodged was an SWF group (all joined at once, themed names)that had 3 Claudettes and 4 toolboxes.
I don't know how to play against stuff like that.
All I really want to do is keep making BP, which leads me to keep playing Freddy, which leads to more of the same. Me sweating my balls off against survivors who've definitely been playing this game way longer than I have, feeling like the only reason I'm pulling this off at all is due to how boss this one killer is.
I haven't played in a few days now because it's gotten so stressful, and I'm frustrated that I can no longer take "break games" to play my baby killers. I like the BP I get with Freddy, but I also missing being able to do stuff like practice my hatchets with Huntress, blinks with Nurse, portals with Demo, etc.
I'm not sure what to do here. Should I keep pushing with Freddy, seeing how far I can get until rank reset even if I suspect I'm being carried by my choice of killer? Should I just say "screw it" and start training on killers that I know I'll get stomped on, taking all the BP losses and depips until I drop back to green ranks?
I don't get too bent out of shape about rank. For what it's worth, you and I once again seem to be in a very similar boat; I'm a usually-green-but-currently-purple rank killer, and my mains are Nightmare and Spirit.
I like using dailies to practice other killers, but I usually stick to my mains otherwise. But if I want to play a game with an underdeveloped character, I don't worry too much. I know I'm good enough to make up any lost pips with my mains. If I were in your shoes progress-wise, I'd be putting all my resources into getting BBQ on Nightmare.
And, don't look at it as being "carried" to a rank you don't belong in because of the killer you use. You're being carried by your own proficiency, because you're good at playing that character. Give yourself more credit, no impostor syndrome allowed. :D
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I heard it's the worst thing ever, that the game is dead, gg Behaviour, your 3K hours in the game are now worthless, sky is falling, and DBD probably just banged your mom.
In other words, it's going to be... fine? Nurse players will still kill you, toxic insta-heals have been replaced by far more rapid healing speeds, and there's a stupid new grind with plenty of Behaviour's trademark player-unfriendliness.
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Waaaaah me pweasents in video game
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Just another player-unfriendly grind system from Behaviour! The suggestion in the OP would be a good change.
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Don't be dumb, the ranking system is bad. You can de-pip or safety pip for escaping, or for killing the majority of survivors. This should never, ever happen.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746246#Comment_746246
@TAG And like I said... you can get right up the survivors' behind and not have to aim. Same with Iri head.
You're describing something that takes a least a minimum of gameplay proficiency. Some survivors make it very difficult to get right up behind them, so it's not like you can do this 100% effortlessly. Stop with the "skill" gatekeeping.
Also, a killer should have access to these kinds of domineering tactics. They're supposed to be powerful threats, at the very least.