RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@CrypticGirl said:
I think the real problem OP is trying to point out is that, whether you call it anti-camp or anti-FACEcamp, it makes no difference. The entire system is so easy to play around, it might as well not be there.
The only real use for it is something that is entirely not intended, similar to the 4% mechanic on the Survivor side. Killers can take pity on a Survivor and purposely stand next to them to allow them to unhook themselves if the teammates refuse to do so. I've had that happen to me once, and I saw it happen recently to a streamer I watch regularly.
I would disagree. Out of the hundreds of matches I've played since AFC was introduced, I've only seen a single face camping killer. That patch alone has practically made face camping extinct. Bear in mind, Proxy camping is entirely different than face camping. There is literally nothing wrong with defending hooks - killers are expected to do so. Otherwise, every hook would act like a pyramidhead cage.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844729#Comment_3844729
You really need to stop twisting my arguments into stuff I didn't say.
Nowhere did I say that unhooks should be 100% risk free and that the killer should never be able to defend a hook. Of course a killer should be able to defend hooks if he spots a survivor nearby or a survivor is just blatantly running to a hooked survivor. But just camping a survivor to death for 140 seconds is not the same, and very unfun to go against.
Being hooked in general isn't that bad of a thing, but being hooked for 140 seconds without having a fair chance of getting off the hook is pretty damn unfun. And here's the thing, most people agree that camping is incredibly unfun to go against. Unlike stuff like flashlight blinds, or getting looped, or sitting on gens. That's not nearly as much complained about, and none of that takes away the ability to even play the game. Not to mention the fact that if you are getting looped for too long, that's generally a skill issue nowadays. Unless you get a map like Badham, but those maps need changes anyways.
I am also not sure where I said that being hooked should be so fun, that survivors want to get hooked. Survivors should simply have better chances of combating a camping killer so they don't have to spend their entire rest of the match on a hook.
If you're hooked for 140 seconds straight, the issue isn't the killer - that is 100% on your own team. Even an entirely face camping killer can't stop survivors from unhooking unless it's a bubba (which was always lame) or everyone is injured.
Then again, even with a face camper and being injured, survivors get plenty of tools to make even a worst case scenario visble for rescues. Here's me in solo queue
https://youtu.be/SmXWT7gN3qw?si=pJy7bpIYYkNkrnHbIn reality, there's very little a killer can do to stop and unhook if the survivors are actually trying unless the survivors make a mistake. Once again, that's on the survivors. Even if the survivors just ignore the person on hook entirely and the killer is proxy camping, that's at least 2 or 3 gens with absolutely no threat getting finished. Quick way for a killer loss.
Here's another solo queue example vs a face camping nurse
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/bSzEqRLyMU
You're acting like a killer proxy camping just means a 140 hook camp. That's entirely up to the survivors.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844411#Comment_3844411
Completely false. No one gets upset about killers hooking survivors, that's their objective to win. That comparison of yours doesn't even make the tiniest amount of sense.
It's the fact that as a survivor it's insanely unfun to just stare at a hook for 140 seconds. That's the problem. It's just not fun. If killers play normally, then matches are generally also fun for survivors, but going against a camping killer is not fun what so ever, at least to most people. Again, in a pvp game like DBD, a strategy that is so unfun to go against shouldn't be as strong as camping currently is.
Also, no one is acting like a killer should immediately leave the hook and run miles away, searching close to a hooked survivor after hooking them for example is completely fair. It's when the killer decides to just proxy camp the survivor for the entire time where things get incredibly unfun. You trying to misrepresent my argument in order to ridicule it is pretty laughable.
I mean, the developers\designers of the game disagree with you - I'd say they have the final say on what's intended or not. They balanced the game around the expectation of killers who protect hooks - otherwise they'd implement something that guarantees killers can't protect them (much like how Pyramid cages work, I'd imagine). If they guarantee survivors get 100% risk-free and safe unhooks as you're demanding, then killers would need a very significant buff to compensate.
You say the survivors are stuck on a hook - that's not fun. Well, survivors are just hold down a button for 90 seconds on a gen - that's not fun, either. The M1 killer getting looped from jungle gym to jungle gym and that survivor having a multitude of second chance perks when they finally get downed which prevents the killer from hooking after that long chase - that's not fun for the killer. Killers getting flashlight blinded - that's not fun for the killers. There's a lot of "not fun" things in the game.
How exactly would you make being hooked "fun"? I mean heck, if the penalty for failure is fun, more people would just rush in and getting hooked so they can have that "fun". Someone sitting on hook with the killer miles away and a survivor coming over to unhook them….not even THAT is fun for the survivor. Your solution is that anything "not fun" should be removed from the game. What is your vision for this "everything is fun" game? I'm sure the BHVR team would certainly love to take notes on that.
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They should just remove the self unhook chance off entirely.Don't let people just immediately push into 2nd stage. The amount of successful usage of self unhook vs the amount of people who just abuse it to get to 2nd hook state immediately I'd imagine is far into the 2nd hook state group significantly. Does more harm than good.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841409#Comment_3841409
I believe OP never said that the anti-facecamp system isn't working as intended, but rather that it just doesn't do anything in most cases because killers just proxy camp.
That's the problem. The fact that it is only an anti-facecamp system and not a proper anti-camp system is exactly the problem. Being proxy camped is hardly any more fun than being facecamp, and a game like DBD should strive to be fun for both sides as much as possible. Which it isn't considering how strong proxy camping is in this game.
So you arguing that it's just an anti-facecamp system does nothing, since that's the exact problem with this system.
Except there's nothing wrong with proxy camping. That's like getting upset that killers ACTUALLY hook survivors. "We have a hook problem. The system in place to stop killers from hooking survivors isn't working."
No one is discussing the validity of it because it's not valid. Protecting hooks is literally one of the secondary goals of the killer. Primary is survivor elimination/chases. Secondaries are gen defense and protecting hooks/securing hook states.
You're acting like killers should just hook and then run miles away and allowing survivors to safely unhook and heal up without any risk.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843937#Comment_3843937
I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm saying it would make the same amount of sense.
Some information is intentionally hidden from both sides. For example, survivors don't know they're exposed from Devour Hope until someone gets hit. Showing when a survivor's aura is being read to that survivor would completely destroy Scratched Mirror Meyers as well as severely reduce the viability of stealth killers, who depend on the element of surprise.
A huge part of skill expression in this game is knowing what perks exist, figuring out what perks the other side has, and then playing around them. This is a problem that can be solved with some situational awareness, not by adding more stuff to the HUD.
You're correct. I ran distortion for its information, not for its aura reading protection. The information of knowing what the killer is running is that valuable. I'd run distortion even if the aura read blocks where removed entirely but still had the 3 tokens. Knowing when to evade is incredibly strong. With old distortion, you'd immediately know if lethal pursuer was in play, would know if nurses calling is in play and when to run early in a heal, when it's not safe to stay near a gen getting kicked, when mindgaming is impossible after a vault, and so on.
That being basekit would be incredibly broken.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The devs purposely made 2v8 more survivor-sided to encourage more survivors to play and discourage too many killers from playing. That's all you need to know to understand why the balance of this mode is the way it is. I don't know why people keep coming onto the forum to complain about it or ask why it's so survivor-sided. There's no mystery to solve here.
I play both killer and survivor equally in normal mode, but for 2v8 I've been playing exclusively survivor due to the instant queue times and have been having fun because of how easy most games are to win.
It's definitely excessively survivor sided, so this makes sense. They might have tried to fix the killer queue problem by making it far more attractive for survivors to play since it's easy wins. Still didn't work - 8 survivors for a single match is a lot. It's likely more of a population issue than a popularity issue.
That being said, it's just a silly game mode. I don't think we should worry all that much about balance. Let survivors be superheroes for a limited time game mode.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432857/how-did-behavior-fail-twice-in-a-row
Please tell me, what they should have done?! I’m very interested in your answer!
I mean, pretty obvious. The playerbase population just isn't big enough for the game to support the game mode. If every time the game mode is released, you're effectively forcing people to stop playing DBD entirely until the game mode is over, it's probably a sign to realize it's best to not implement the gamemode until the population is healthier.
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Same experience. Afk killers when I'm doing survivor.
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This happens when they release 2v8. Any time 2v8 is out, it's pretty much the time to take a break from dbd if you want to play killer. Once the mode is gone, then queue times are great, again.
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The lag has been very awful since 2v8 came out again, so it's probably just servers having issues handling so many people simultaneously. Hopefully the lag settles down once the event is over.
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Howdy, and welcome to DBD! This is a common misconception among the newer crowd, so no worries. There actually is no anti camping feature in the game. What you're talking about is probably the anti-facecamping feature which is working as intended and surprisingly well. Out of the hundreds of matches I've played since it's recent inception , I've only seen a single survivor facecamped.
Bear in mind, killers protecting hooks is 100% part of their goals and is simply part of how the game works. Anti facecamping being implemented was mostly just added to stop killers with one shot abilities from making rescues impossible (looking at you, Bubba). Killers are definitely designed in a way where protecting hooks is an important part of their toolbox. They have to decide between protecting gens, or risking zero gen pressure in favor of protecting the hook. It's a big risk vs reward, as zero gen pressure can be easily punished by the survivors slamming out gens. In fact, the devs even added 10 seconds to hook state time to give survivors even more time to punish the risk vs reward play by the killer. If the killer is protecting a hook, they are likely in hot water if the survivors play their cards right.
Anyway, welcome aboard, and i hope you have a better understanding of this mechanic.
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Not really sure what the issue is. Most of my match are 6-8 survivors out the gate. I typically play as medic. Very broken if you have a medic buddy with you, lol.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836679#Comment_3836679
What are you even talking about. There is only one information available about the kills and it's 60%, from where are you pulling that gaussian? Try to be more explicit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836688#Comment_3836688
I believe you are correct. And I should never use the word "math", it makes it looks way more complicated than what it is.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3836771#Comment_3836771
It's all about the perception of the game.
Killer wins are defined as seen above. (I'm too tired to repeat all that)
Survivors (plural) win should naturally be the opposite but in practice it isn't. The vast majority of survivors only focus on their own escape: survivor (singular) win. Hence that regular ranting about 60% kill rate. That's why I looked at the win the way they are perceived.
But one of the points is that 50% gives a very low rate of win for the killer, which may explain why a while ago when the kill rate was balance for 50% survivor queues went up: it was high-mmr even at the basic killer level.
Draws are irrelevant because they are not a win. I'm not sure in English but in French it's called a "mach nul", one meaning being "the same as if it never happened" (nul et non avenu). They dont really have an equivalent for singular survivor wins as it's kind of all of nothing on that front. Nothing really interesting to take from that.
Yes, I've seen the 17% too, which is interesting, or would be if survivors cared that much about team wins. It's all about perception. (And I realize I've not updated the web app to also draw that curve, I'll do it if I recall tomorrow.)
We keep speaking about 40% escape rate mind you but the 48% escape rate in high MMR is also intersting (and explains why that level of play can be so frustrating). I know this detail doesn't escapes you and you expect it to be like that, as do I.
I see everything as system, that aside you may have a point directly in relation with mine. Let me think …
Yes, you are right. Hatch escapes are inflating the escape rate somewhat. Win perception on the survivor side may be lower than projected because of that. I'd love to be able to discriminate them out. There is no data about this though. If you can find some BHVR stat about hatch escapes, I'd love to try to include them.
47/37 I presume you are talking about the measured win rate results of the matches. It's about perception here again. I understand not everybody sees it like that but, for me, if it's not a win, its a loss (I guess I'm extremely competitive).
I fully agree opinion may diverge about this. I've simply provided a tool to have a better idea of what these statistics mean.
If other people draw different conclusions than mine and don't see why I'm only focused on win, it's all the same to me. (Once I believe I've explained myself sufficiently, and I believe I did.)
Opinions are subjective after all. I'd not call either of them biased though.
I'm perfectly happy with my survivor escape rate (about 60%*) and killer kill rate (about … a lot, I don't dare to say how high, with my main**), neither of which are matching these stats. But as you probably know, personal observations are hardly representative.
*) and I consider myself pretty average: it's mostly luck and stealth.
**) Nurse, relatively decent at it if I say so myself.
Just to reinforce your statement in draws, draws are also irrelevant because there are no draws in dbd. Each match is 4 simultaneous 1 v 1 scenarios playing out. As a survivor, you win by escaping and lose by not escaping. There is no actual survivor team. There is no "survivors win!" screen. YOU either escape and win, or YOU die and lose. Due to this, there's no situation in dbd where you could draw in that 1 v 1 outside of the server crashing. A draw requires neither side to win nor lose. Even if people aren't aware of what the devs have stated multiple times that the game is 1 vs 4 individual survivors and instead assume it's a team vs team game, a draw would require neither side to win or lose. You cant have the killer fully lose and half of the survivor team win (2 escapes) and declare a draw, because the survivor "team" had winners in it. Draws have neither side winning nor losing. If the killer fully loses and the survivor "team" has a partial win, then clearly the survivors are the winners in that case. Now like I said, there is no survivor team in dbd, but even if someone claims there "actually is", the whole idea that draws exist just doesn't hold any water. There's no draws in 1 v 1 in dbd, and if you subscribe to the idea that the survivors are a team, there's still no draws because you can't draw with one side losing and one side partially winning. Draws require no winners.
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We need Trogdor the Burninator as a killer.
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Seems that when 2v8 is out, it's the bat signal to stop playing the game until it's over. 15 minute queues just aren't worth it. It sucks because it affects normal matches, too.
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Tip: If you're system allows it, change your name to "need exit game open" or something similar. A few killers respect challenge requests.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I honestly find this very hard to believe. It's been a very, very long time since I've seen an obvious cheater. If it's happening this frequently, why don't you record you matches so 1) you can report and 2) show us some examples and the forum members can help determine if people really are cheating based on your video evidence.
The amount of teleports I see on a regular basis is staggering. My most recent report had someone teleporting on top of the shack building and shining their flashlight into the sky like some sort of main event spotlight.
The most common one i see is immunity cheating where you can get someone multiple times, but they don't take damage states. Ya got speed cheaters zooming around, teleporte, run straight through dropped pallets without having to slide across them, instant self heals, and so on. I probably have at least one of these every 3 matches or so.
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You don't stop playing games because you get old, you get old because you stop playing games.
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We need to discourage toxicity - not encourage it. Newcomers are the lifeblood to this game. If the game continues to have a reputation for toxicity and negativity, we're going to start stagnating as a playerbase. This will lead to the game eventually having support cut.
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I agree, and they need to consider that just about any killer who is aware of the FOV slider is going to have that thing maxed out just like how everyone uses the visual TR on survivor. They need to model with that in mind.
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I'd post this in the ptb feedback. I made one there already.
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@BorisDDAA said:
If the stats were reversed (60% escape rate and 40% kill rate) everyone would be losing their #########. No ifs or buts arguments.
It's not 1 to 1 though. A 40% escape rate is per survivor, and there are 4 survivors in a match. You can still lose (you got sacrificed so your escape rate went down) but the other 3 survivors win resulting in a killer loss.
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You're still new enough where MMR hasn't adjusted enough. Keep winning, and you'll start getting shifted into more challenging matches.
For what it's worth, Hatch escapes don't adjust MMR.
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MMR being known would just cause elitism and people showing off their MMR to try to devalue anyone else's opinion that happens to be lower than theirs. Would promote a very negative community.
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62.5% means getting a 3k or 4k on roughly have of your matches. Essentially, 60% means you're just short of winning roughly half your matches (if you accept that 3k+ is a win).
Remember a 50% kill rate is only 2 kills. A 75% kill rate is 3 kills.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833717#Comment_3833717
I think most of the speed increases would be pretty benign here, the major potential problem is gen repair. Even then, six percent isn't that much, I think it could at least stay for a PTB testing period.
Aura reading also doesn't need a nerf overall, it'd just be neat to have more choices for answering it.
The problem is how many little gen repair speeds we get that can stack. 6% isn't much, but then you have other perks that also have those little gen repair speed buffs, and put enough on, especially a whole team, and you're having matches over within minutes.
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I'd rather them just nerf aura reading all together. That being said, interesting ideas except I don't think speed needs to go up, especially gen repair. Gens already go WAY too fast. We don't need them going faster than they already are. Frankly, I'd simply just make spinechill light up any time your aura is read. That's it. You just know that you're in danger. That alone is incredibly powerful, as in it also helps you know what aura reading perks the killer is using. He kick a gen and your spinechill lights up? He's using nowhere to hide. You're healing and get lit up? Nurses calling AND the killer is near. Etc...
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If you got a 3k, you won. Even if the last survivor escapes through the hatch, you still won regardless. A 4k essentially is just rubbing salt in the wound and overkill. That's generally why I always let the last hatch out. What's the point in killing the 4th off? They know they lost. Let people get some extra bp for the match. Now, the exceptions for me are if they were toxic/cheating or if I have some challenge that I need to be done.
Long story short, don't view it was losing out on a kill that last kill doesn't matter - you already won with a 3k.
That being said, if you didn't 3k and hatch spawned because other survivors already escaped through the gate, then yeah, that sucks.
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A few fun ideas.
Idea 1
Allow him to enter lockers. It's not powerful, but it's our ghostie - imagine the silly shenanigans that would ensue with him jumping out of a locker at you. Him hiding in an enclosed space is even in his DBD lore. If you want to take it further, one of his biggest problems is a huge lack of ways to get around the map. An accomplice system would help, here. Let him mark up to 3 lockers. Upon entering a locker, he can teleport to a marked locker, and the locker he went into gains a mark and the locker he teleported to loses it's mark. This essentially is where one killer hides in a locker and his accomplice then takes over - essentially, you're playing as two killers, just one at a time. If a survivor opens a locker one of the killers is hiding him, they are given a skill check to evade getting injured, and the killer is given a notification. This would allow him to travel around the map better while also giving a realistic take on why it feels he could be anywhere.
Idea 2
Another problem is that he has to take time to set up ambushes. In a game where speed is key, this already is putting him at a disadvantage. When he speaks up on a gen, he can peek the corner only to then see that the survivor was on the opposite side of the gen. Now the survivor just runs off, and all that time carefully sneaking up goes to waste. I suggest instead that when ghostie is crouching, he can see the aura of nearby survivors that are currently interacting with something (such as repairing a gen). This way, he can properly set up an ambush without the results ending up being RNG on what side of a gen the survivor is on.
Idea 3
So many times, crouching up onto an unsuspecting survivor goes out the window because the survivor suddenly just sprints. The survivor has no idea ghostie is nearby, but suddenly chase music kicks in and they panic and run for the kills. I'd like to suggest that crouching suppresses initiating chase. This way, you can use crouch walking (which already is slow) to actually properly sneak up on survivors without them getting warning chase music.
Idea 4
This is similar to the crouch aura read Idea, but instead of aura reading, any survivors nearby interacting with something instead gives off their own version of a red stain for ghostie to see. It extends out 3x the length of the killers red stain. This would allow ghostie to see exactly where the survivors are looking giving much more potential at stalking or ambushing. Imagine working on a gen, turning away for a moment and then back again. In that instant, suddenly you just see ghostie just staring at you - taking advantage of that moment you looked away.
Idea 5
A different accomplice system. On a cooldown, ghostie can generate a decoy ghostie. This is bot controlled. Ghostie can aim in a direction, and the decoy ghostie will appear and run in that direction. If ghostie is out of stealth, the bot has a TR and red stain. If stealthed, then the bot is also undetectable. The bot doesn't chase survivors, but instead does basic pathing in a direction. The purpose of this is to sow deception among the survivors. SWFs may give out bad info' "he's by the tractor!" which allows the killer to take advantage of survivors lowering their guard. It also makes room for the killer to mindgame the survivors and pretend that he IS the decoy when in reality is an active threat, "that's just a decoy". It can also just get a survivor to hide and play defensively when that survivor things ghostie is nearby but in reality just a decoy. If that's too weak, the bot ai could chase after survivors, but vanish in smoke if he "hits" which does no damage. Would be hard to tell if the real ghostie is after you or not.
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Survivors have every tool available to them to be literally unbeatable. The only reason survivors fail is due to mistakes. That's generally what the game is built around. Perfectly played survivors are unbeatable. Perfectly played killers can still lose. The game comes down to how much the killer can capitalize on survivor mistakes. If a survivor makes a mistake, how much can the killer take advantage of that mistake. That's why the game is killer favored at lower MMR - where survivors are less experienced. The higher you go into the MMR, it starts to slide into the survivors favor. We're flawed in which we'll never play 100% perfectly, so reaching that completely unbeatable gameplay isn't very likely for any human, but the possibility is there. Some survivors are just incredibly good at not making mistakes. That's where you're seeing those 200+ win streaks. In the end, when we're dealing with a situation where we feel killers are OP - it's quite literally a skill issue in this situation. Less mistakes, and killers are easier to handle. Make little to no mistakes, and the killers aren't even a threat. Under certain circumstances, you can even intentionally go down and still win - just depends how well you built up to the moment (such as DS or deliverance at an exit gate) - it literally doesn't matter what the killer can do, you're guaranteed to win. There's a lot of those scenarios that the most experienced survivors play around.
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@RakimSockem said:
You ain't cooking bro. The "consequence" of following Ghostface to knock him out of his power is that he gets an indication of the direction you're looking at him from and he can just turn to you and now you're the victim of chase.
Ghostie has no chase power. Being chased by ghostie is literally the best position you could be in as you have safety at loops and jungles. What you DON'T want is to be caught unaware and ambushed.
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@PriestessPoppy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827608#Comment_3827608
You are completely wrong on everything, you got 100% of your message wrong. There is no "validation favor" or "interrupt favor" you made both of these terms up. The killer has what's called "Attacker advantage" on this game, as explained by BHVR themselves on this blog post
https://web.archive.org/web/20210117183136/https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/185864That means that as long as the ping differential is not too high (the threshold is way too high right now) even if the server see the survivor in a different position, it will take the killer packets anyway and accept the hit. This was made not the case (in 2020) with pallets and grabs, right now if the survivor has dropped a pallet and the server registers that pallet drop before the killer hit, it will reject the hit and if the server registers that the survivor left a gen, even if the killer sends a grab, it will reject it and m1 instead. This is no "favor" for the survivor, but rather a "non favor" for the killer, the server got the pallet drop, and the game acts like every other multiplayer game made in history instead of rewarding high ping.
For deathslinger it is another story: in this game, animations cannot be interrupted, if you try to pallet stun a killer picking up a survivor during the animation, the pallet save will fail, because the killer was in an animation, same if you hit a survivor entering a locker (they will enter anyway) or stun a nurse in fatigue. The same case applies to deathslinger, if the survivor already queued the animation for the fast vault (you can do it far enough from a window) the animation will have to finish before they can enter another one (deathslinger harpoon)All of this comment was not necessary since what you said was just wrong and admitted so by the developers in the blog post i linked above, survivors have no "favors", the attacker advantage only applies to the killer, saying otherwise is just literally not true and was said by the developers many many times.
You are very misinformed. See the devs' literal comments below. As for an example, with the deathslinger, I'm talking without them even being at the window. You'll shoot them, it'll impact, they'll continue running forwards (not yet at the window), and once they get to the window, then they start the vault animation, and then they get "stuck" to the harpoon once the animation ends. The funniest one I've seen this happen was when I harpooned someone while they were running up the stairs and they kept running to the window, then they got "stuck" as they fell out the 2nd story window and we just stared at each other from the 2nd and 1st floor. His friends on his stream were like ######### just happened, but the survivor was confused what they were talking about because from his POV he got harpooned as he vaulted.
This is exactly how it works in this game. What the killer sees generally goes when they are attacking. It would make for a crappy gameplay for the killer if they hit people but don't do damage. What the survivor sees generally is what goes when it comes to interuptions. The devs stated this clearly on numerous occasions. They said it felt bad from a survivor POV to run from a gen only to get teleported back to a gen to get grabbed off of it, so they changed it where interruptions are survivor favored to make it less jarring. When this occurs, a damage state is instead inflected on the survivor to essentially act as compensation for the killer having his grab revoked. However, there's been several reports that the damage state compensation isn't working correctly, so it's a bit iffy if you actually do damage.
Long story short, it sucks as a killer to hit people but not do damage, so they gave killer favored hit detection. It sucks as survivor to run away from a gen and suddenly get teleported back to the gen to get grabbed, so they gave survivor favored interruptions (deathslinger harpoon counts as an interruption. You can test this with a laggy survivor). You can believe whatever you want, but I'm basing this off what the devs have stated on numerous times, and frankly, it matches up to what happens ingame, so I have little reason to doubt the devs' word.
Here's a synopsis of Peanits on interruptions.
"1) The killer sends a grab request to the server. The server double checks everything is all good, and sends the message back to the killer their grab is all clear for the moment, beginning the animation. At the same time, it sends a message to the survivor client to let them know they've been grabbed.
2) The survivor client, however, has an inbuilt failsafe from P2P days, and upon receiving a grab request will perform this failsafe, which involves checking everyone's positions
again- this time based offtheirclient. The server waits to actually allow the killer the grab while this takes place, leading to the issue of your arm just sticking out into the middle of nowhere, and everything freezing as everything is ran through to see if a grab is okay or not.3) A lot of the time, the survivor client will reject the grab, as on their side the survivor is actually too far away now. The server receives this, and lets the killer client know the failsafe was activated and the grab has been cancelled.
Now, a fourth step occurs, which causes the killer to swing after receiving this request (although this wasn't always the case).
The same was true for Dead Hard without Validation, as all killer clients had a built-in failsafe perfect for P2P and not for Servers."
The comment on "the fourth step" is where the damage state companion is supposed to happen, but sometimes the survivor distance is just too far that the swing ends up actually doing no damage. That's the "iffy part" if you actually get damage compensated.
and here's Peanits comments about killer favored hit detection:
"Currently, killers have the authority over hits. If they hit a survivor on their end, the survivor will get hit on their end (no matter where they are). This is a carryover from the days before dedicated servers where the killer
wasthe server."So back to what I said. Killer hit registration is killer favored. Interruptions are survivor favored. They LITERALLY have a failsafe built into them to reject killer interuptions.
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@Xernoton said:
Welp, Chucky is gonna get nerfed. There is no way around it. The only question is, will they actually make him a more fun killer overall or will they slaughter him? I hope they'll increase the cooldown but bring back flicks. Oh, and maybe bring back scamper for vaults.
For Vecna I honestly have no clue. It's not like they can buff him that much without breaking him but he definitely doesn't need any nerfs.
Wesker is fine in my opinion. Maybe some of his addons could be touched.
Ghostface will get a buff. Or at least they'll try to buff him. If they mess with reveal mechanics this could end up as a major nerf where you reveal him when he's not even on your screen.
You already reveal ghostface when he's not on your screen. Skip to 9 seconds in. I end up revealing the ghostface that is ENTIRELY BEHIND ME not even on screen.
https://youtu.be/tBjdJ31Cgwk?si=rPsSWwv4s3jfP01GThat being said, ghostie is a very weak killer all things considered. Zero map traversal, survivors can ENTIRELY remove his power by just looking at him which just makes him an m1 killer with no powers - easy to do, too. Just have someone dedicated to following him around at a distance. He also has zero anti-loop outside of going stealth, but again, that's really up to the survivors if they decide to remove his power or not - yes it's a decision from the survivor side if he has his power or not…if you want him powerless, then simply have someone follow him around. One less person doing gens, but you GUARANTEE he has no power the whole match.
While other kills have dashes, map traversal, speed, alternative abilities, built-in wallhacks or speedhacks, teleports, ranged attacks, map interactions (such as vecna and pallets), and so on - ghostie literally is just an m1 killer with no power as long as you have someone dedicated to keeping tabs on him. If they are nerfing him, I'm going to be speechless. XD He couldn't get much weaker.
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Quick clarification - both sides get a "hit validation" favor. Killers get straight up hit validation favor. Survivors get interrupt validation favor. That's why when you're a killer and you literally start to grab the survivor and do the pick up animation, that suddenly, you'll freeze and then the survivor is already running away - from their POV, they let go of the gen and already started running. Same as when you harpoon someone as deathslinger, and while attached to the chain, they continue to run to the window, vault the window, and THEN they get "stuck" on the harpoon on the other side. From the survivor's POV, they already made the window when they got harpooned.
Long story short, both sides get favor on validation. If you're going to fix one, then you should fix both sides. They each get their own favor to try to balance out a sucky reality of ping issues.
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@MissiCiv said:
Brutal Strenght should go from 10%/15%/20% —> 15%/20%/25%
Surge gen regression Should go from 8% —> 10% and range should increase from 32m —> 36m
Surge needs a buff that makes it not count towards the 8 regression limit. If the killer is actively downing survivors, he's clearly not sitting camping a 3 gen. That regression limit gets hit so often with surge due to survivor mistakes. I've literally had 6 regression events happen in a matter of 6 seconds that affected 3 gens (thanks to survivors bringing instant pick up perks and such) because I happened to be in the middle of the map on a VERY small map (thanks saloon) . It's pretty silly just how much killers are punished for survivor mistakes.
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Hard to say on the wording, but it sounds like the aura read is for survivors and doesn't help the killer.
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@Chiky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811074#Comment_3811074
no, we dont need to force killers to run those perks to be able to compete... that's awfully bad game design
I still think any perks that change the speed of gens (whether positive or negative) should be eliminated, have kicks removed, and have gens automatically regress when not being worked on. That way, gen speeds are consistent and easier to balance around. Killers can't regress dump a gen any more, but survivors can't just speed them and finish a gen in under 30 seconds anymore (which is literally possible currently). Toolboxes might still be an issue, however.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
The only changed I would make is that if a killer picks up against a wall, it shouldn't blind the killer just because the survivor gets no collision. Then again, I don't like dealing with flashlights and flashbangs, so I just use Lightborne. It makes my games so much less stressful.
They just need to fix the no collision when picking up exploit. It's silly.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Went against an AFK Wraith running Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Deadlock, and Merciless Storm. He slowed down the match without even being there, and it was frustrating as hell. We were all working on gens and the match took well over 5 minutes.
I'm sure a high MMR 4-man SWF all playing on PC can do everything perfect, but that's not the average player's experience.
Anyway, the problem is that the devs made generators a baseline thing instead of tweaking gen times and regression and all that depending on the killer. All killers, regardless of their powers, go against the same gen speeds. Requiring killers to use perks to slow down gens has resulted in a lot of unhappy people. For some killers, gens go too fast. For survivors, against some killers gens take way too long. The "happy medium" that's required because gens are treated the same across all killers means most players are not happy with the results.
Did this actually happen? Ruin wouldn't affect you, at all. It doesn't regress blocked gens. It would only do something if a survivor decided to just leave a gen for some reason that wasn't blocked. I can only assume it's to prevent the typical play of 99'ing a gen. That gen is effectively finished and "eats up" the deadlock leaving all the other gens clear. Weird killer.
Corrupt intervention, just walk a few yards over to another gen and start.
Merciless storm is essentially a non-issue on PC, but I hear it's problematic on console controllers…it's strength is when the killer is putting pressure on you while you're on the gen which wouldn't even occur with an afk killer. Even then, it's a once per gen thing.
Deadlock doesn't last very long (it got nerfed)…but granted, this is the biggest time-waster for an afk killer. Not much of an issue if you spread out gens, though. Still…weird killer.
If you guys split up on gens for the first 4 it shouldn't have taken very long, at all. Even with deadlock in play, it only affects one generator at a time. Are you saying the afk killer is the frustration, or the perks? You literally had a no risk\no threat match with the win being handed to you, and you still felt it was frustrating to play…so I'm hoping it's just frustration at the afk killer.
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@vBlossom_ said:
Didn't killers got buff to gen kicking
- reducing time to kick gens,
- inflicting insta -5%
- and disabling gen-tapping mid chase?
Are we just ignoring that and demanding more? 🤨
and enabling permanently unregressable gens just because you decided to grab surge or eruption AND adding +10 seconds to hook timers to give that much more time to gen rush.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808823#Comment_3808823
I mean they could buff eruption to be 20% regression +12 seconds of incapacitate. we'll be back in eruption meta in no time.
Incapacitation needed to go and doesn't need to ever come back. I don't think eruption itself needs a buff, but it should NOT count as a regression event since you have to kick a gen to activate it. That way, it'd still only count as one regression event when triggered.
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Ma boi ghostie needs some love.
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@lifestylee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808415#Comment_3808415
To me this is mostly just predropping and holding w.
You may be confused on what predropping means. If you're stunning the killer with a pallet, it's not a pre-drop, though true pre-dropping certainly has its merits - especially at high level plays such as in tournies. Also, you seem to be under the impression that to proper loop, you stay indefinitely in one loop for the entire match. Quite the opposite, you're expected to move from loop to loop. You should give it a try, sometime.
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I'm a killer main. I think the killer already gets too much "perfect" tracking info (ie auras) as it is. I think it's fine it doesn't reveal their exact location but gives you a general direction of where they are at. Frankly, I think the aura reading potential from both sides needs to be reduced. More mindgames!
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@yukiday said:
Eruption, which is already weak, is completely useless.
It feels bad to be punished for "normally" using a park that isn't even meta.Doesn't help that you are instantly punished for using eruption since it takes 2 out of your allotted 8 regression events allowed per gen.
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@doobiedo said:
I will reapond to
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808415#Comment_3808415
Looping is definitely not easier than it has ever been, that is just ridiculous to say considering there used to be infinites everywhere and instead now there are deadzones everywhere. Obviously like I said I was exxagerating but looping is definitely harder than it uaed to be considering new map design and nerfs to existing maps.
Those chases have little to no difference with any new map changes. At best, the biggest difference is the school, but all that would change is visibility blocks in the hallways which, imho, is a survivor buff making it easier to break LOS from the killer. I still loop fine in "modern" DBD map design, so saying looping "isn't a thing" anymore is just isn't true (which is what the OP is saying). I could provide day-old chases, but there's no reason to go through the effort - looping is still a thing and still viable. I personally find looping easier due to the variety of loop perks now available. The infinites had little to do with looping and more about taking advantage of a broken map design which was of course fixed.
If you "seriously" thing that a month old footage is no longer relevant, here's some fresh ones. This one is just silly, I'll admit, but fun nonetheless.
https://youtu.be/tgTqpIn7jYo?si=M5LdRhx876TBjeUODracula's on this one, so you know it's new. Works
https://youtu.be/qlY1r-6hA9c https://youtu.be/g44hLPltczYLooping certainly isn't a thing from the past, as the OP claims.
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Looping is definitely still a thing. Here, I'll even intentionally get hit just to grab the killer's attention, or if I lose them, make my position known to try to regain their attention. Don't mind the killer shack pallet drop, I was sick that day and not thinking, lol.
Looping is easier than it's ever been with the amount of loop perks available these days. The only trouble you have are killers who specifically have anti-loop built into their kit.
https://youtu.be/NhriQPbYh8U https://youtu.be/wbG7DR54WZg -
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807680#Comment_3807680
It doesn't recharge after a chase ends.
It only recharges when starting a chase. Which makes it a direct counter to new Predator and I'm All Ears but almost entirely worthless outside of chase.
While people ratting around and not helping was an issue, tying Distortion to starting chases will merely throw it into the trash bin like most perks after a nerf and not fix the issue. People will still rat and be useless, only difference is that they'll stay in lockers more instead of stealthing around and risking the Killer stumbling upon them.
For the vast majority of the playerbase, basically every chases will end with them on a hook. Distortion will have 3 uses max for most players while better loopers might get more uses. Yet another perk that people will just replace with a gen-speed perk and lower perk variety again.
Ah, thanks for the correction. I suppose that makes it technically helpful in a chase, but still, I'm surprised they just didn't keep the tokens and only have them charge up during chases (and not instantly - you want longer chases to get rewarded with more tokens).
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@Emeal said:
The fact that Distortion players hide the entire game and their team-mates die must be the reason why this has changed.
As an active distortion user (mainly to use for information and not the hiding), I definitely look forward to this change. However, I did expect them to make the token recharging only happen during chases, and not a 1 token system that recharges after a chase ends.