RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887459#Comment_3887459
They do not, sadly the servers do not look for any "sanity checks" at all.
One problem with sanity checks is that cheaters can force cheats on innocent players. If there were sanity checks, then cheaters could get innocent people banned on demand. Sucks, I know.
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I 100% support delaying content for a game health focus.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883088#Comment_3883088
i do not agree with the game not being balanced around highest level. casual party players shouldn't care about the balance because they're casual. the difference is that they do. they want to play very badly and still win.
That's fine you feel that way. Just saying that's not what the designers say. The game is blatantly busted at high level. Thats why tournaments almost always put in perk restrictions in play just to make it more enjoyable for everyone. It also opens up for having more killers be viable in tournaments if survivors have to play with one hand tied behind their backs. Otherwise, we'd only see nurse and blight killers every tournament.
Casual players don't make the game balance - the designers do. They are the ones saying it's a casual party game.
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It's a weird map. It's easy gg win if survivors knock out the lobby gens, but it's hell to pay if they don't knock them out. Thats why they are the first gens i knock out as a survivor. Even if the killer camps them, there is the 8 regression limit.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883061#Comment_3883061
survivors going down in 45 second every chase is not the survivor playing perfectly. it is survivor playing as poorly as possible in chase. the game is based off survivors not doing gens and the killer playing perfectly in the chase.
they are generally balancing the game around the more casual players.
somehow i disagree. they balance around which killers survivor's find fun which is picking random winners and losers out of a hat.
I mean, you're welcome to disagree with the devs. Just saying what they said - they don't view the game as competitive and more in line designed it around being a casual party game with your friends. They dont balance it at the competitive levels because the competitive level players aren't their target audience. Thats why the game is just broken at the highest levels due to too much experience and not balanced at the low levels due to inexperience.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882357#Comment_3882357
well SWF is needed in DBD, I would never play this game anymore if that was taken from me.
The community just needs to accept that SWF is a thing, it isn't going anywhere, and it likely is needed to stay alive. It's "supposed" to be a silly party game you play with your friends. That's why solo queue is difficult - it's just not designed around the idea of playing alone without communication with the other survivors. That being said, I LOVE the idea of individual survivors being dropped into a match vs a killer and can run across other survivors doing their own thing - each with their own goals and such…but I know I'm likely in the minority to wanting a game like that…and DBD certainly isn't like that. Oddly enough, the designers have stated multiple times it's technically a 1 killer vs 4 individuals game, but we all know the reality of it is that it's simply not the case.
Back to my preference, one day, I'd like to see a DBD game that's more "open world" where a killer can come in - larger maps, and a sort of extraction game like a horror-themed Escape from Tarkov (but no pvp against other survivors). Would be fun to jump in as a survivor, sneak around, find equipment, get goals done, and then try to escape alive without getting caught by the killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879745#Comment_3879745
you can still lose with 45 second chases. co-op 1 gen takes 52 seconds. if each chase is 40 seconds+12 second walk time to the hook. you lose the game in 5 chases. the killer needs 7 hooks min to get 3 kill with perfect tunneling but survivor finish the game in 5 hooks.
you can watch tru3 streams where he does 45 second chases throughout the entire game. he has had games where he made 0 chase errors and still lost with 2k or 3 escape. This is particularly common on weak killers. often killer between C-tier & D-tier which is like half the cast.
This game is entirely designed around survivor errors. Survivors have all the tools in the world to be unbeatable. It all comes down to mistakes. Survivors who make no mistakes will be guaranteed a win. Killers who make no mistakes can still lose. It all comes down to killers capitalizing on survivor mistakes (not easy to play 100% perfect as survivor - let's face it, we all make mistakes while playing survivor). That there lies the problem though - the higher the experience of the survivors, the more killers start to get screwed over simply because even playing optimally and\or perfect can still cause unavoidable losses just because survivors are experienced enough to utilize those tools effectively and consistently. There's a point where the result of the match is already dictated once it begins at the higher experienced matches. Those killers are literally at the mercy of if any survivors make mistakes. That's why we have those survivor SWFs who get 200+ wins in a row. That being said, the designers very specifically said that they feel the game is a casual game and not a competitive game, so they are generally balancing the game around the more casual players. This generally means experienced killers have a worse and worse experience as time goes by. The exception is nurse and blight which are broken enough to stay competitive even at the highest levels. BHVR tries to address this by mass-nerfing all killers or mass-buffing all survivors instead of dealing with the problematic killers are the top. This further reinforces problems for killer players, as even if the game is rigged against them at the higher level, any non-top tier killers become increasingly more frustrating to play. Eventually, all we have left at the higher MMR levels are the same few killers over and over - the other options are just nothing but frustration.
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P100 main. I've stopped playing killer recently since every patch just kicks the weaker m1 killers in the gut. That being said, they either need to make his dropleg entirely basekit (no half measures for crying out loud), or do something a bit more creative.
One idea I had was that while crouched, he can see the auras of nearby survivors who are currently interacting with something (ie gen, totem, chest, etc…) but loses the aura once the survivor is no longer interacting with it. This would help him set up better ambushes when there's no line of sight yet. This way, he doesn't have to roll the die when peaking a corner only to find out the survivor was on the opposite side of the gen (so still no line of sight, but the survivor sees via 3rd person), spots him, and is now sprint bursting away into the hills which invalidates his entire attempt at approaching cautiously.
Another good thing to add would be having his crouch mode no longer initiate chase. The amount of times I've been trying to sneak up on someone carefully who has NO idea I'm there only to suddenly have alarm bell chase music blasting and giving my position away just because the survivor happens to tap their sprint key……..ugh.
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@UknownShredder said:
I feel ghostface is fine ish, With Drop a knife and driver license its pretty okay, perhaps it should be basekit because he is a " slow" killer to stall the game a little bit, because on big maps he is not so strong and if you can stall a gen from afar it would be helpful while on racoon station he is fairly strong as is. Dead and hooked people should not be able to reveal ghostface imo, They just got a knife right through the brain and should be occupied by that rather than being able to instantly reveal.
best build imo for me is . Franklin, Weave, Surge, pain res / discordance with drivers license and drop a knife.He shouldn't be "okay" only if using specific addons - especially rare\iri addons. He should be okay at a base level, and better with addons.
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I don't see why not. They don't bother checking flagged matches anyway unless you go out of your way to submit an out of game ticket with video evidence. If there was a nasty bug worth reporting with a follow up video, it would be a good way to do it.
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@sausage11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882702#Comment_3882702
"to reduce the wait time for all players" - needless to say that the queues are the same as before, ~ 20 minutes on average to get a lobby as killer. Just not worth it at all
Im not sure why they insist in trying to force 2v8 down everyone's throats. Every time 2v8 comes out, it just means it's time to stop playing dbd until the event is over.
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There's nothing wrong with getting a 4K - it's the objective of the killer. However, I PERSONALLY don't see the point in "rubbing in the win". Everyone knows you won, so why not just let someone get a little extra bp and offer hatch? That's just my personal way that I play, but you can't really fault anyone for going for the 4K.
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@tricks5776 said:
if we’re being completely honest survivors have a lot of tools to consistently win games but the majority of the player base is not good enough to use them consistently. That again is behaviors fault for having so much content with very little explanation. The tutorial system needs a major overhaul and more in depth explanation as I’ve said on forums before. I will also agree that they have slightly overtuned some maps to killer creating zones where you either have no tiles or all the tiles are bad. I used to play solo queue surv a lot. I still play but the quality of gameplay from this time last year has decreased drastically.
Entirely accurate. The devs have given survivors all of the potential in the world to be unbeatable. It's just that it can be difficult to master that potential to win consistently. Perfectly played survivors pretty much are guaranteed to win. Perfectly played killers can still lose. The game design is around the killers capitalizing on survivor mistakes. Experienced survivors are pretty much unstoppable - it's just rare to come across survivors who actually go out of their way to learn the ins and outs of the game. That being said, the devs want to treat the game as a casual game and not a competitive game, so they essentially give survivors the keys to the kingdom since the majority of the playerbase in the casual range would rarely if ever know what doors are unlocked with those keys. If they balanced around "true potential" ie experienced players, then the game would be awful for newcomers. On the flipside, balancing around casual survivors while supercharging experienced survivors makes the game absolutely horrible for high MMR killers, however.
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@buggybug said:
I do not believe this for one second. Killers are always tunneling so no its a bad idea and will just make it worst. Aura reading perks and unhook notifcations is the easy way to tunnel out people.
Also even if you do not tunnel sadly the good must suffer for the Bad. Take distortion for example, not everyone like me who ran it was being selfish hiding rats letting teamates die or not contributing to team.
I do gens, flashbang or light save, take hits or even hook trades but killers wouldn't not have any of that and got it gutted. So the good ones like me now get punished for those bad ones who used it incorrectly( solo q) not swfs might I add since 4 distortion via swf was much effectively used compare to solo q potatoes whonused it wrong.
Killers with lethal especially blight and huntress being the top users of it made us lol when they see 0 people at start and dc, that is one of the poper ways it was used. So in conclusion am saying while there may be a few who do not tunnel it is what it is. I do not tunnel yet am good at keeping track of each survivor I hook unless they are literal clones with the same outfit and or character.
It's been something blatantly needed for years. As the community has pointed out multiple times, tunnelers keep track of who is hooked anyway…so seeing hook counts makes no difference to them. This would simply REDUCE the amount of times someone gets double hooked, because some killers (like myself) prefer to AVOID double-hooking people. Killers who tunnel already are keeping track of hook states anyway.
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They should fix the meg issue as well as have a shorter cooldown for I'm All Ears (it's just far too easy to have it go off over a useless trigger - you pretty much rarely get use out of it when it would actually count and it got blown earlier because someone randomly vaulted something somewhere else), but I wouldn't say the cooldown should be removed. If it was entirely removed, then it would be fairly difficult to mindgame any killer running it. Maybe something like it has no natural cooldown, but if you're in chase and it triggers, it cannot trigger again until the chase ends. That way, you get one use out of it per chase but have the benefit of always having the potential to start a chase strong.
I'd be happy to see Thrilling Tremors get a buff…but I feel it's pretty decent where it's at. It's an information perk as well as a minor gen control perk. Sure, survivors can let go just before someone gets picked up, but then they are dealing with the downside of having their gen blocked for a few seconds. I wouldn't mind it blocking longer, maybe…but again, I feel it's decent as-is.
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@Yggleif said:
Some of these complaints are unreasonable (ruin for example is decent but nowhere near OP sometimes perks counter other perks, just like if a killer brings knock out and the survivor has unbreakable it gets countered) but overall I agree it's getting to be too much for soloQ to handle most of the time. Through thinking about it and talking to other people partially on here I think it comes down to survivors having less resources on most maps, more mobility killers making more dead zones (for example you're not making it to the next pallet against a blight or dracula even though you might against trapper), and more killer buffs making stacking slowdown even more brutal.
I think for sure maps need more pallets I think we have enough anti-loop powers in the game that this wouldn't be an issue. The other issue is rough because do you punish mobility killers for being good or do you nerf slowdown because we've reached critical mass and it's easy to have a build of 4 meta worthy slowdown perks? I don't think you do both and if I had to pick between the two I think the mobility killers are generally the most fun killer archetype for people so I think slowdown gets the nerf bat which is sad for lower tier killers but I think overall that's easier than doing specific changes to like 6 or 7 different killers.
Biggest problem is buffing survivors more will be gutting weaker killers. They need to do a good pass on the weaker killers (especially m1 killers) to bring them better in line with the more optimal killers, then give solo queue some very much needed buffs to help bring them closer to SWF. While this indirectly buffs SWFs in a way, I still feel that buffing up the less optimal killers up then buffing up solo queue would go a long way to helping making the game more friendly for solo players with less of a chance at making the weaker killer experience absolutely miserable (which it already is starting to become).
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877603#Comment_3877603
Then it should only start counting once there only 3 Generators left.
This is something I kind of disagree with, some maps have tight enough Generator spreads (paired with awful RNG) that allows more than just tight 3-Gen set-ups to spawn.
For Example, Azarov’s Resting Place is known for having 4-Gen and sometimes even 5-Gen set-ups if RNG allows it.
That sounds like a map design issue as opposed to a gen mechanic issue.
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Its designed to to do that, but it affects more than that. I've seen the limit kick in numerous times when a 3 gen isn't even remotely happening. Heck, as a survivor, you can force a vital central gen to permanent lock up within 5 minutes of the match starting. It's just far too abusable.
If the whole thing is truly to stop 3 gens from happening, then it should only start counting once there's only 3 gens left. Anything else is just an excuse.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876747#Comment_3876747
So you just tried to find what could be a result with 60% kill rate, but it has nothing to do with real games.
The post I linked also works with 3k+ is a win, but results are actually submitted by players and it is calculated based on it.
With your approach, results are simply out of touch with reality. Killers are going to have different results, by that I mean different % of games in each "chunk".
Math is out of touch with reality....got it. A 50% win rate is literally an average of 2.5 kills per match. That translates to a 62.5% kill rate. I'm not saying it's 2.5 kills every match - I'm saying an average of 2.5 kills per match.
If math's not your thing, that's fine. I merely was answering your question.
Edit - and FYI, careful depending on nightlight - it's not reliable and tends to be skewed towards people just reporting wins. If people only reported wins, should we accept the report that killers have a 100% win rate? Of course not. Is it an extreme example, absolutely - but the fact remains those stars are self reported and human nature is human nature.
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Im a killer main, and I don't really get this change. It's now a perk that helps ensure you're going to win when you're already winning. If you're in the endgame and all 4 survivors are still alive, you pretty much are already in a position to win, so the perk helps you "super" win. If you're hurting and down a few people, then it helps you win at a lesser degree? I suppose it's good not to have a perk give you a win because you're losing (because frankly that's unfair), but the logic is just still weird to me that it's a perk that helps you win the more you're already winning.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876400#Comment_3876400
A 50% win rate would be a 62.5% kill rate (halfway between a 2k and a 3k)
How did you get that number?
Data I talked about was based on results from nightlight. 50% win rate is not even close to 62.5% on anyone.
Issue is if you have a killer who is good at securing 1 kill at least (camping), kill rate is going to seem higher even with killer who has same win rate, but not by camping.
btw here is link to the post I talked about:First, a definition of a win. A win is a 3k or higher.
That being said, if a killer had a 50% kill rate, that means on average he's getting only 2Ks - not enough for a win. If the killer had a 75% kill rate, then on average he's getting 3 kills (a win). Kills are essentially broken down into "chunks" of 4 which means the same thing but just a different way to view it. Every 25% is a chunk…and every "n" where n is a kill numerical value is also a chunk. In other words, a 0% kill rate is 0 kills. A 25% kill rate is 1 kill. A 50% kill rate is 2 kills. A 75% kill rate is 3 kills. A 100% kill rate is 4 kills. Those are our 4 possible chunks…you can ready it as either 0-4 or 0% - 100% in steps of 25. In order to have a "perfect" (on average) 50% win rate, then you must be halfway between a 2K and a 3K on average…meaning you need 2.5 kills on average for a 50% win rate. Over the course of several matches, that .5 will get you a win every other match. Just remember, that's just averaging across a lot of matches. While it's true killers can sometimes get 0 kills or 4 kills, we're just talking strictly averaging which would take those anomalies into account. Anyway, regarding the 2.5 kill rate, that .5 is "half" of our chunks - or another way to see it, 12.5% (half of 25% which is also one of our "chunks"). So, a 2.0 + 0.5 kill rate (ie a 50% + 12.5% kill rate) puts killers on average smack dab on a 50% win rate. Since killers are actually designed around a 60% kill rate (NOT a 62.5% kill rate), then they are designed on average over the course of multiple matches to win sliiiiiiightly under half of their matches.
Bear in mind, this is based on what the community wildly accepts is a win condition for killer (3k+). A dev awhile back posted that getting a single kill is a killer win which doesn't make sense at first, but that was just them trying to reinforce the idea that every match there are 4 "battles" of 1 v 1 going on. That means from their POV, the killer can win anywhere between 0-4 times in a single match. That's just overly complicated to try to work with, so most of the community just sticks to a 3k+ being a killer win and don't really take too much heed to the concept that every match has 4 individual and distinct 1 v 1 scenarios happening at once. While that statement is absolutely true, a killer only getting a single kill while 3 others escape doesn't really feel much like a win nor a good way to balance the game around that being a killer victory.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875175#Comment_3875175
10/10, would sacrifice my pride again xD
The Alien Facehugger also gets me time to time... I know that its there, and it still messes me up on occasion... Even as killer xD ;🐽;
I was so happy to see the kitty jumpscare.
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The easiest thing that'd help ghostie tremendously is to make the drop leg knife sheath basekit then either remove or rework the addon.
I also feel that they should cause his crouching to NOT trigger chase. The amount of times I've been slowly sneaking up to someone crouched just for the chase music to suddenly happen and throw my ambush in the garbage is ridiculous.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Kill rate does not equal win rate
Guy made a post while ago about reality % and 60% was around 52% win rate, which is suddenly not that much higher…
Which means 50% kill rate some players want is simply killer losing most of their games. In data Ghostface had lowest kill rate with 50.5%, which was 42.9% win rate.
It also seems logical to me that side with disadvantage (amount of players) should be the power role, otherwise it is bully simulator…
There's just no way to enjoy the game if you play solo and actually care about winning.
You should not play soloQ if you expect to win. That's like playing Trapper and try to play seriously… That's simply not how it works.
If you want to sweat, go play SWF, then you are going to win against most killers.
A 50% win rate would be a 62.5% kill rate (halfway between a 2k and a 3k), so a 60% kill rate means you're expected to win slightly under half of your matches.
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I'd like to see Ghostie get some genuine love. Those "basekit buffs" didn't really accomplish anything, as the basekit "buff" was weaker than if he brought the original items - so ghosties STILL have to run the addons anyway just to stay on par with their original power. They should have just made the drop leg knife sheath basekit.
Once buff I'd LOVE to see for ghostie is that if he is crouching, any survivors within a limited range currently interacting with something will have their auras revealed until they are no longer interacting with said thing. This would allow him to at least prepare his ambushes slightly better without having to turn the corner to stalk only to find out the survivor was on the wrong side of the gen, his cover is blown, and the survivor is now sprint bursting away from the gen.
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@Ryuhi said:
There is no "Decay" if I remember correctly, so sadly it only lowers like that by losing a lot. As long as I'm not mistaken, its just another for the pile of problems with how MMR was incorporated in this game.
there's also a floor that once you pass it, you can't go back under it. In other words, you can't just afk fail 1 million matches and go to "zero" MMR. Once you get above a certain point, there's no going back under it. This is in an attempt to keep experienced players from playing with inexperienced players. That being said, sometimes the MMR game searching is so desperate that it throws all the limitations out the window. I've seen brand new players facing players with thousands of hours before, ha.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875425#Comment_3875425
It wasn't the opposite. The reason why Teens, even new Teens, stomped new Monsters is because Monster had a higher skill floor. Once you made it past the skill floor Monster was pretty good.
One of my most significant feedback points as a beta tester was, in my opinion, although high level Monsters did well and, at the high end, the game was very well balanced it was unrealistic to expect players to get stomped repeatedly and want to play. Although I was winning most of my games after getting past the skill floor my first 40 games had a win rate of single digits and it took 100 games before I had even a 33% win rate. I pointed out that this was a game, not a professional competitive event, and that those type of odds would cause new Monster players to find another game instead, this would cause queues to lengthen, and then Teens would also start dropping out due to queue times and this would create a death spiral for the game. I even had a conversation with the lead about this but my advice was politely discounted and ignored.
History proved me 100% correct. However, the developers put a far greater emphasis on a select group of high end players and their feedback and tuned their game specifically for the top end. That's why there were no changes to low end Monster play; it was considered unnecessary as the entire focus was on the high end. For a competitive sport such as soccer that's a good strategy as the revenue comes from spectators. For any game that relies on participation such as most video games that's a death knell. As such, I pointed out that if VHS didn't make Monster entertaining enough that at least 15%, and preferably 20%, of the players queued were for Monster the game would fail.
It wasn't high end Monsters leaving; they were the only ones who stayed. There were Teens complaining about how they had no chance as the only Monsters left were the grizzled, masochistic veterans and that there were no inexperienced Monsters so inexperienced Teens started leaving as well. By that point, there was no return and it was only at that point that the developers introduced Danger Sense which did even out the skill floor. However, it was too late at that point.
But it was balancing for the top exclusively that killed VHS and ignoring that if new players don't have fun they won't stick around for the hundreds of games necessary for the average player to get on an even footing with the Teens. People won't stick around if they think it's a hopeless struggle. They'll just leave and find another game they have fun playing.
Survivors in DBD are powerhouses at the high end but incredibly weak at the low end. It's pretty much the opposite issue with the same problem here. Survivor is far less of a fun experience for newer players.
I honestly wouldn't mind the devs putting in some sort of crutch safeguard for the lower brackets, a weakened crutch for mid, and then have all crutches removed for the high end gameplay.
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@BorisDDAA said:
Actually it's TOP 1% High MMR. High MMR is for casuals
This is pretty close to the truth. High mmr is very easy to achieve. The mmr ceiling is quite low. There is a higher tier of mmr that was implemented awhile back, but BHVR had stated generally only the professional grade dbd players are at that level.
There is a distinct difference between low mid and high mmr. When people say high mmr, what they actually are saying in reality is that they simply aren't part of the newer or casual crowd. They probably doesn't realize that's what they are saying, but if you are decent at the game and have around 100 hours, you're likely in high mmr. DBD doesn't really have a true mmr system in regards to fair matches. It essentially merely keeps newer players separated out from people who have a decent amount of experience in the game. Once you have some decent experience, then you're thrown into the bucket of chaos where anything goes in regards to opponent skill. Someone with 100 hours can face someone with 5000 hours.
The only exception is that the devs did add an extremely high mmr bracket that's generally only achievable by professional grade dbd players in order to try to keep those players facing each other instead of just stomping on your average player. It's estimated that this top tier is only 2-5% of the game's population.
It's a very different game between these brackets. The higher the bracket, the more powerful survivors tend to be, as survivors have a load of tools available for them to beat the killer. The issue is that survivors need the experience to know how to leverage these tools. Lower brackets get stomped by the killer because the survivors don't really know their actual potential. That's why so many killers start to complain about balance eventually - as one gets into the upper bracket, survivors have more experience to know how to beat the killer, and there is a LOT of power survivors actually has over the killer. People in different brackets see the game very differently - and it all comes down to how much experience the survivor players have. Lower brackets survivors know far less about looping, less mindgames, likely less perk access, less experience facing the numerous available killers, less altruistic moves such as spreading hook states and taking hits. They will perceive the game as heavily killer favored. At the higher brackets, survivors tend to have much more of that information, and a lot of the killer picks become less viable since the survivor potential simply overshadows them. At those higher brackets, the favor starts to swing closer to the survivor side. At the highest tiers, most killer choices simply drop off as unviable which is why we usually only start seeing the same 3 or 4 killers at the highest brackets (usually seen at tournaments, but tournaments usually realize this issue and create rules and regulations on perk use to try to open the tournament up for less desirable killers).
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875221#Comment_3875221
At this point we feel you just want to cherry pick what you wish to say and respond to since this is what we got after explaining everything, so little point in us responding in kind.
That's a fair assessment. I'm just trying to stay on topic. You keep trying to change the subject to my personal gameplay which isn't remotely related to the subject on hand, so I'm just skipping over those comments. If you are so interested in my gameplay, you're welcome to look up my videos sometime, but this isn't the time nor the place to discuss it.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875007#Comment_3875007
You're trying to change the subject off of the problem and instead about how I personally play
The problem is the following:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874891#Comment_3874891
Your explanation heavily implies that it is about you playing the game. First sentence [effectively] below.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874985#Comment_3874985
How? I've played the game.
We are not trying to change the subject. We are dissecting your explanation as we see and understand it. At worst we've derailed the op's topic (for what its worth your comments are more inline with the ops topic). The sentence implies to us that you've seen and experience these things to the point you confidently stated the problem quote. With what follows it then implies to us you believe your in "high mmr" which leads to the third part with that list.
My statement was that the issue doesn't really exist to new or casual players but instead at high mmr […….] The mmr ceiling is very low, so only having a few hundred hours can easily get you into the high mmr bracket - it ain't hard.
These 2 sentences do something funny. Since the mmr ceiling is low, wouldn't that mean casuals reach "high" mmr quite fast as well? Which then means that this "issue" would exist for casuals no? Thats not even going into what defines "casual".
At high mmr, there's so many ways to punish killers for hooking that it's simply more effective to slug survivors instead of hooking them unless you happen to be a high mobility killer.
As we stated in part 2, most of the things we can think of punish going for the unhooked, not actually hooking. Bar 3 perks that we can think of, most are for the benefit of the unhooked person. Killers are not discouraged from hooking as all the benefits from the first part of our post still apply, they are discouraged from chasing the one unhooked. STB especially doesn't do this as it doesn't do anything to the hook itself, ie: doesn't stop perks, pressure, etc. What we say to those using StB as some excuse to say "killers are punished for hooking" is BS.
You're still going off topic, but I'll at least respond to one on topic. If a casual player plays enough, yes, they can easily get to high mmr. At that point, they arent really a casual. Bear in mind, we are talking about few descriptions unique to dbd that isn't the same for other games. For example, someone who has 100 hours in a game is usually considered someone who has significant experience in the game. In DBD, that's still a very, very new player in terms of experience. 500 hours in and you're just starting to get a decent handle of good gameplay but still have a lot to learn. That's why I mentioned me having 2000 hours isn't all that impressive. Some of the most experienced and skilled players have well over 10,000 hours. Regardless, the ceiling is pretty low. Thats why reaching high mmr isn't really bragging rights. I'm just pointing out the problem exists at the higher mmr bracket and not for newer or casual players. While a lot of "basic level players" flood the higher mmr bracket, that's also the same place the experienced players reside. A 500 hour player can be in the same high mmr bracket as a 10,000 hour player - the ceiling is that low. A while back, BHVR actually acknowledged this problem and implemented a special bracket above high mmr to try to mitigate the problem, but it essentially was just to try to push the extreme skilled players into being more likely to face each other. Essentially, the low, hard ceiling got converted to a sort of soft ceiling specific to the highest tier players. If I recall correctly, the soft cap went from 1800 to 2100. You can look up their post about it. In theory, a small population of the player base should breach this "cream of the crop" tier and is, based on BHVR's own words, only is generally populated by professional dbd players. It help push them into their own special bracket, but for the rest of us, hitting the high mmr bracket is still fairly easy. I'm not sure where I am MMR-wise, but considering the ceiling is very low, I have a decent amount of hours (2000), I regularly face p100 squads, and I've also gone up against One Pump Willy (considered one of, if not the best onryo player in the world), it's not unreasonable to expect that I've hit the high mmr bracket that can easily be achieved by 100 hours of gameplay. I'm not sure WHY you're obsessed with my mmr level. Don't get me wrong- I'm flattered, but if it makes you feel better, there's that.
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DBD definitely is in a good position competition-wise for the genre, but it's definitely headed in the direction as the other games - more and more perks are designed around being able to weaponize yourself against the killer. There's a load of reasons that encourage survivors to run down and find the killer. The whole concept that the killer is a threat to avoid is slowly being lost in the game design. Nowadays, survivors are practically tripping over each other to rush to the killer and get their attention. The fact that you can literally bully the killer is a bit silly.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874985#Comment_3874985
Theres a reason we don't believe a word of this. Its because we've played the game.
First off none of that quote has proven, or even related, to Shoulder the Burden removing hooks. Do perks that proc on hook still work with StB? Yes. Does at least one survivor still have that hook state? Yes. Does a survivor still have to get to the hook to unhook? Yes. Can the killer still actually physically hook a survivor despite StB in play? Obviously.
Second, should the killer be spreading out hooks in the beginning StB does little and the only way that it forces the killer to spread hooks is if everyone has it and everyone uses it…which spreads the first 4 hooks only. All those perks that "punish hooking"? about 80+% only punishes going after the unhooked (we're admittedly pulling this number outta air, but give us a list you think "punishes hooking" and we'll do the math for a more correct number). Swinging at the unhooker looks appeasing dont it? Especially if they used StB, its effectively free food in many many cases.Third: "Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level" :has a few parts.
1: Don't actually believe you just from the first claim alone. Believe alot less since people who apparently have to say they're in "high mmr" tend to think it means something. More on that below.
2: You can't actually see the mmr number. You can tell just as well as we can.
3: mmr doesn't assess skill level well. For killer it says you got kills, not explicitly how you got them just like survivors who hide all game with wake up and sole survivor can be "high mmr" because they still escape.
4: "The big problem is that it is pretty easy to get into high mmr" by this logic then everyone would be high mmr and your comment: "Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level" : means nothing by your own admission because most will be there at best or at minimum we would too and since we dont believe a word of this, we got 2 (technically 4) people of high mmr completely at odds.
Going to stop you here as you're going off on a very random off topic subject. You're trying to change the subject off of the problem and instead about how I personally play. Most of your responses are off basis, so let's get back onto the subject- then I'll bother to respond. My comment has 0% to do with me. My comment is that the problem exists at high mmr. It's easy to get to high mmr. It's not remotely bragging rights to be at high mmr. My statement was that the issue doesn't really exist to new or casual players but instead at high mmr. I couldn't care less about your mmr or my mmr. The mmr ceiling is very low, so only having a few hundred hours can easily get you into the high mmr bracket - it ain't hard. This isn't chess. BHVR set a very low ceiling that's easy to achieve.
Now that you (hopefully) understand that - try again.
That being said, the devs do not balance around high mmr. They balance around mid mmr - ie for the more casual playerbase. They've also refuted the concept that the game is competitive and view the game as a casual party game you'd play with your friends. The problem is that anyone who isn't a casual player can easily get into those higher mmr ranks, so more and more people are getting into the problematic portion of the game where balance is just broken. At high mmr, there's so many ways to punish killers for hooking that it's simply more effective to slug survivors instead of hooking them unless you happen to be a high mobility killer. Any time a killer ends up being problematic, BHVR either mass nerfs all killers or mass buffs survivors which then makes the weaker killers even weaker which then pushes them to play dirtier and dirtier tactics just to stay afloat. That's also why higher mmr tends to always end up with the same killer picks over and over - all the other options just are too weak. Even the numbers shown by BHVR shows the majority of killers are well below their 60% intended kill rate. Now, I suppose that's me going off topic. My point is, we have a slugging epidemic because killers are strongly discouraged from hooking, but that's not necessarily a problem for the casual player which is what the devs balance around. If someone is posting regularly on the forum, there's a decent chance they arent a casual player, so it's not surprising to see so many people complaining (rightfully so) about slugging being a problem. All I'm saying is STB is the straw that broke the camel's back - killers are too severely punished for hooking survivors outside of casual games.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874985#Comment_3874985
“Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level.”
Thats what they all say
I added an addendum to clarify that. Re-check the post. Also, because "they all say" doesn't mean it's not true. P100 killer, over 2,000 hours (that's not that impressive in reality), and regularly face full p100 squads that clearly are working together. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as high mmr. The problem is, the ceiling is very low, so people can easily get to high mmr. I'm just saying the issue doesn't exist for newer or casual players, and the devs prefer to balance around casual play. I'd say many people posting in the forum are likely not casual players, so yeah of course you're seeing mass numbers of people saying there's a slugging epidemic. Perks like STB heavily encourage it at high mmr play.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874891#Comment_3874891
....how in the nine hells do you come to that conclusion?
How? I've played the game. There's a reason some of the most experienced killer players immediately ensure the first survivor is slugged and not hooked.
Low mobility killers have been getting more and more punished for hooking over the past few patches. With STB, teams can now force those killers (especially the weaker m1 killers) to not have any kills by the endgame by forcing the hooks to be evenly spread out.This essentially puts them into a very significant disadvantage during the endgame unless they rely on crutch perks such as NOED. Essentially, there's too many ways that killers hooking survivors can be severely punished by the survivors. It's far safer and more reliable to just slug all survivors, now (which is a very unfun and problematic design choice by the devs).
Bear in mind, my comments are at a high mmr level. Lower mmr survivors typically don't have the organization to weaponize perks well enough to punish killers who hook. The devs do not balance the game around high mmr but instead at the mid level. The big problem is that it is pretty easy to get into high mmr - the ceiling is fairly low...so we see an epidemic of it happening in a large amount of games.
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Surprisingly a lot is read - just most of the feedback is ignored. I've seen a lot of dev replies to posts that aren't even popular (ie a few replies). However, you'll see that even blatantly obvious and pointed out problematic issues in ptb feedback posts are almost always ignored when the ptb changes go live into the game. If they do respond to it, it's usually "we will keep an eye on it" followed by months of painful gameplay dealing with the broken issue.
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@TwinsMain2004 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874522#Comment_3874522
Those perks are garbage lol
Pain res worst it's even been
Pop worst it's ever been
Grim is overrated and generally isn't very good
DMS can be baited extremely easily, and you only lose a few seconds doing so
Gen Defense perks arn't worth using anymore
STB essentialy removes hooking from the game for the majority of the killers. Only high mobility killers can really effectively use hooks, now.
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If someone is slugged for more than a minute, they seriously need a "give up" bleedout option. Sure, some people may "ragequit" with it, but it's no different than people giving up on hook, anyway.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871166#Comment_3871166
Doesn't really make sense to create Kindred in first place then.
Why create perk to show exact information you want to hide? So I doubt that is the reason for it….I mean that's what the devs said a while back. With the bubble, you are given free information exactly where the killer is, but not exactly where he's going. Kindred is more to help warn about campers.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871101#Comment_3871101
Isn't the whole point to display location to everyone, so blindness is not an issue?
It's also to hide the killers direction where he's going immediately after a hook. That way you cant just look at the person getting hooked and know where he's going immediately after.
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870645#Comment_3870645
It's both pointless and inefficient. It defeats the purpose of several perks even existing. All they need to do is have auras supersede the bubble and everything would be fine. This may be the easiest, most trivial of all fixes in a video game.
The whole point of it is to hide the auras, though. If auras are visible through it, it may as well be removed.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868336#Comment_3868336
You're. not. playing. comp.
Please, enough of this. Unless you're playing in tournaments, what happens in the comp scene is completely irrelevant. Of course survivors in the comp scene have a huge advantage, because:
- they're on comms
- have thousands of hours of practice
- know the maps they're playing on
- know the killer they will be playing against
- know what perks the killers are/aren't allowed to run
- know the teams they're playing against and what strategies they will use (given that they've likely competed before)
This is not true of the majority of public matches. Yeah you might get a SWF with high hours, but odds are they are just playing for fun and not doing clock callouts and all that nonsense. Comp is such an artificial environment that you cannot make any judgements of game balance from it.
If we balanced the game around comp, the game would die in like a week because no casuals would want to touch it anymore.
Devils advocate, a chsnge like this wouldn't affect casual/average players anyway. It'd target the problematic balance area.
That being said, I don't think checkspots should be removed, though some should get adjusted. Killer shack with broken walls is just broken. You can effectively be permanently safe at those killer shacks. We shouldn't get a guaranteed safety area. They should also fix the red stain going through walls.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868134#Comment_3868134
Oh your my favorite survivor when I'm playing killer, you're the ones who make egc so much fun 😊
Gotta makes things interesting!
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I usually CAN escape half the time as solo queue, but I prefer taking risks and going for endgame collapse saves to get other people out even if I end up getting sacrificed in the process. I'm the weirdo solo queue guy who uses shoulder the burden and does bodyblocking, ha.
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I don't think cost should ever come into consideration for balance purposes. However, one issue that bugs me is as follows. We are slowly getting getting pushed in the direction where this is a competitive game where it is expected or demanded that every match should be an equal ground of a 50/50 vs team 1 and team 2. There's a million and one games out there for team vs team competitive games. I came here to play a "spooky themed" experience vs some of the most iconic killer characters in fictional media history. Killers should be genuinely tough to face -we are facing THE Michael Myers...THE Pyramid Head. Killers shouldn't be a joke, and the fact that its even remotely possible to bully them is just ludicrous, imho. I want to have bragging rights to pull one over on the killer. I escaped from Pinhead's grasp!
That being said, a lot of the community already complain that they have to make ANY effort vs Killers, so the idea to make Killers genuinely scary to face off against probably wouldn't be popular. Modern players are wanting a stroll in the park game. They pretty much just all want to group up with their buddies and beat the killer over the head with a stick for laughs. It's a very different experience than what it used to be. That's why I eased up on playing survivor and swapped to playing mostly killer - i wanted to play a killer thematically, so I'll usually play a stalker kind and spooky people instead.
Example (Warning, they scream very loud)
https://youtu.be/-Be6TSybXd4?si=NG7kpuqxnXR2nv4X -
@NecroticSeal said:
Game right now is not worth it imo. Gen rushing is still terrible, yet more perks come out for Gen completion. Camping is still a thing, this coming from a killer main. The game needs something, some kind of a "small new", other then new killers and survivors, or cosmetics. The short modes just don't cut it. The bugs are hot right now, you won't ever get away from those " special features", and the hate and toxic environment between killer and survivors has been flaming. Not worth it to play right now. I've not purchased hound master, and don't plan on buying anything else till something changes. Just won't play.
I played this game daily for a long time. About 2000 hours. A mix of survivor, but I really enjoy mastering underdogs, so I mained ghostie (p100). Every patch, it seems they keep making m1 killers weaker and weaker all in the name of mass nerfing killers or mass buffing survivors due to a few problematic (and they ARE problematic) killers overperforming or performing in an unfun way. It's just making playing a "fair" killer less and less viable, especially when playing an m1 killer. Shoulder the burden was the final straw for me. While I rarely tunnel, effectively allowing swfs to FORCE matches to always have 4 people still alive by the endgame is just the death of many m1 killers. I have not played since they put it on the ptb, and frankly, I don't even know if I'll return. It's one of my favorite games, but they are making playing a fair/nice killer as no longer being viable which only leaves sweaty killer gameplay left (unless you just want to get rolled). I'm a considerate guy, and if the survivors are getting stomped, I like to back off and give them some room, and I almost always give last hatch. However, that's becoming less and less viable, and I hate how their design philosophy is just pushing killers into slugfests and tunneling.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865552#Comment_3865552
Yep, each match of killer is four 1v1 matchups for the purpose of MMR. So a 3k is 3 wins and 1 loss. In other words, kill rate = win rate.
I see what you are saying, but it's a flawed concept. Let's say the killer only ever kills a single person. That's hundreds of thousands of matches where the killer gets a single kill. That's a 100% win rate while survivors only have a ~40% win rate. Time to nerf killers! Right? Obviously not. You're have to take matches as a whole and realize that 3k+ is a killer win, not simply getting a kill.
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Theres no way to viably know if someone is solo queue.
Additionally, while I PERSONALLY ease up if the survivors are getting stomped as well as almost always offering hatch, we need to stop judging killers for simply playing the game and fulfilling their objectives. imagine if we'd get upset if 3 people escaped and went off on the 4th survivor for actually escaping when it was clear they already won and instead demand they sacrifice themselves. Both sides can "over-win".
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
How exactly do you abuse waiting 60 seconds to pick someone up? It's a generous time to have to wait to pick yourself up. The slugging has to stop. Killers are meant to hook survivors. It's the way the game was intended.
The problem is that the devs continuously make hooking players a very bad play. BHVR needs to go back to encouraging hooks. Shoulder the Burden was a HUGE turnoff from even bothering to hook players.
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You probably have not been going against coordinated SWFs. That's where it's broken.
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@RoyC87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863832#Comment_3863832
I can't find a survivor win streak that is public for proof of 200+ only one by hens is 173 while there is a public killer streak of 1947. At the end of the day a killer has a cap on their skill and 4 survivors have individual skills in game logic the killer to win will have to deal with all of them for a win. I'd think if you want to win (just like any other game you have to play the meta) which means play nurse/blight and A tier killers are also really strong. Playing for the soul purpose of winning and playing for fun are 2 different things for example playing nurse vs playing Leatherface these killers themselves have a cap if you want to win more Leatherface isn't what gets you there. Also having fun on any game is subjective. I'd never say skill issue id say lack of experience. It takes a killer less time to perfect their game than it does a working team of survivors.
You're right on fun vs winning. I'm a fan of mastering underdogs, so my main is a p100 ghostie. Sure I could win more as a nurse, but I personally have fun by giving survivors a sweaty break and playing more thematically with some silly shenanigans. If survivors end up going sweaty, ill bring my A game, but if not, I find the game far more enjoyable to play in a "competitive with room for silly fun moments" way.
Just as two examples, here are two of my favorite moments
https://youtu.be/goyhXKma2gw?si=YRt8tnnK0BOcg2t7