Rickprado
Rickprado
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598540#Comment_3598540
I'm not intending to be an arbiter wheter or not a perk should have value, but the whole discussion about Decisive in this topic is about buffing or not because its AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK.
Nope, that is a restriction that you are adding to it. This discussion is about DS in general.
Sorry, but its not throwing: a down in a match can be the difference between get multiple kills or multiple escapes.
But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
Now, if someone blocks you from getting a down, denying you even the possibilty of getting another hook (because the will stun you, get a health state and the run)
They won't get a stun or a health state at all. DS doesn't activate upon going down.
ou need to remember that if someone with DS bodyblocks the killer, the other person will run away as far as they can, getting so much distance that you will need to start over the chase again.
That's only as much distance as the weapon wipe timer, because they don't get the on-hit sprint. This is slightly longer than a single whiff.
that regard, i will say it again: there should be measures to prevent Decisive weaponizing against non-tunneling killers.
There is one. It's the fact that you need to go down in order to use it.
Edit: about the FTP + Buckle Up combo, it DOES CREATE a Health state. A 10s temporary one, which can give the survivor 40 meters to run. So you wait until the 10s health state is gone, or you just eat it and let the chase begin again
No one mentioned Buckle Up.
But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
You are "giving" a down which cannot be picked up and potentially can pick themselves up. Its kinda of changing 1 to -1, because ir a normal chase you can at least do something.
But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
A down which you cannot capitalize, instead of a down you could capitalize hooking the survivor, sacrificing him or making it closer to sacrifice.
No one mentioned Buckle Up.
Sorry, i've read quickly, since i've never seen someone saying that FTP itself give a health state. This is something people say about the FTP + Buckle Up combo
That's only as much distance as the weapon wipe timer, because they don't get the on-hit sprint. This is slightly longer than a single whiff.
Its much more distance than a whiff. It can be the diferrence between a survivor reaching a safe loop or taking a hit.
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@SMitchell8 said:
Brilliant aesthetic, the green aura for his power is really nice too. His audio work is excellent, his footsteps sound really nice and gets me in the hunting mood I find. I really like his terror radius music also. His power although fun and challenging, it's buggy as hell and really needs refining. He stomps lower skilled players but decent players can give him the run around. 2 of his 3 guards are pretty hopeless, with Assassin being the best one. Addons need work as his best ones are brown and yellow, with the brown very frequently suggested as being basekit.
Think the hatred he gets is completely unjustified. A lot of Knights play an offensive game and go after survivors instead of 3 genning.
I agree with you in most of parts. TBH, i think only Jailer is a problem (so only 1 of his guards are "hopeless"). I really understand the concept of Jailer for scouting and patrolling, but the match goes so fast that we don't have time to this. Carnifex and Assassin are quite good, in their own ways (Carnifex locks a person 28s in a chase; Assassin can harm a survivor by himself if the survivor is careless). Jailer can often find people, even when they go to the corner of the maps, but the problem is that DBD is not around finding people, but chasing and actually downing people.
I've made a topic on what i think should change for the Knight:
@Rickprado said:
After playing for some time with the Knight (i've been playing him constantly since March) , i've come to understand that although this killer can be quite fun and have a very good visual, it has some problems. In order to adress some of these problem, i have some suggestions. Please, consider this topic as an open debate about the Knight current status as a suggestion for a rework.
I will point the issue and the propose a solution:
- Bugged AI
The guards have several bugs in their AI, becoming stuck in parts of the map, going in very strange paths to chase a survivor right in front of them, refusing to pass through windows or pallets to catch a survivor, going all the way around, wasting the hunt.
Of course those bugs needs to be adressed ASAP so we can have a better experience while playing the Knight.
- Addon dependancy
Playing Knight without some addons is a bad experience. There is three addons that i would say are obligatory on him (in order of importance): Map of The Realm, Call to Arms and Dried Horsemeat.
Map of the Realm (MotR) makes the detection range of your guards bigger. Playing without MotR feels terrible: even when you predict correctly the path that a survivor will make, he/she can dodge a guard easily because of the small detection radious Carnifex and the Assassin have (Jailer can counter this a bit).
Call to Arms (CtA) is what the turns Knight viable against good survivors: The increased speed and range can make you have time to listen and think where the survivors are going; make easier to pressure survivors through the map (while they are healing or doing gens); etc. Knight with Call to Arms is just another killer in terms of strength and map pressure.
Dried Horsemeat is mostly used to make your guards last enough to you do a pincer move on a survivor, specially with the Jailer which has lower speed than the Assassin and Hunt Duration than the Carnifex. Dried Horsemeat can also be used to "snipe" someone at long range, on a generator or healing, as the extra 4s can make the difference between a hit or not
Since these addons are so essencial to the Knight to fix his weakness, mostly of the other addons are rarely used, as if you don't have a good chance to detect a survivor with a guard, you will become just a M1 killer with no power.
My suggestion for this are: Make the Map of the Realm extra detection range basekit, so we can explore more of the Knight addons; change the basekit speed of patrol mode to be the same as when using Call to Arms addons, and leave it as addon for extra range on patrols.
For the Dried Horsemeat, i would suggest something: rework completly this addon and make the extra hunt time tied to total patrol path distance, gaining 1s from 10m total path to 4s at 32m total path. This would incentive Knight players to play more strategically with their power, rewarding then to predict where survivors will go instead of just dropping a guard into a loop (i will talk about that later)
- Three Gening
Knight can be quite annoying while holding a three gen, specially when they are very close to each other. To resolve this issue i propose that you can no longer kick a gen with a guard while using patrol mode - you still can break pallets. This way, if you want to protect a gen with a guard, you would be forced to start a hunt instead of holding it by kicking.
To compensate this, i would give Knight a secondary power:
Guardia Order
When you are up to 16m of a Brekable Wall/Generator/pallet, press the secondary power button to give the guard an order to kick gen/break the pallet. Your order will be directed towards the object which is mostly centered on your screen - highlighted with green. You cannot use your power or Guardia Order while a guard is executing an order or while your power is in cooldown.
This way, Knight could save some time giving orders to guards instead of having to go in patrol mode, but could not use this to hold a generator "hostage" from afar.
- The Guards utility / The Hold W counter
Although i can understand that every guard is tied to a playstile (Carnifex brute force; Assassin fast hits; Jailer scouting + anti-stealth) i think most of the Knight players will agree that the guards that are better in hunts (Carnifex and Assassin) are the guards which most make a difference in a match. Although Jailer can be crucial to get a hunt against a stealth survivor, his speed and chase duration makes him kinda lackluster when compared to the other two.
Also, another thing that happens with all the guards is that even when the Knight finds the survivors and gets a hunt successfully, if the surv is in a safe loop or have window/pallet to jump, you will be only wasting your time, as he/she can get away from the loop and the guard before you even have the chance to zone them.
To resolve this kinda of problem, i would suggest these changes:
Whenever a guard is actively hunting a survivor, the Knight will get a 3 to 5% haste bonus (tied to total patrol path distance) until the hunt ends.
If a Carnifex is hunting a survivor, the Knight gets 10% longer lunge and 10% pallet break speed;
If the Assassin is hunting a survivor, the Knight jumps through a window 15% faster;
If the Jailer is hunting, every survivor within 4m of the Jailer have his/hers aura revelead to the Knight for 2s. Also, the Jailer would chase with a 4.2m/s speed for 18s seconds, having the same detection range as the other guards (considering that Map of The Realm would be basekit).
- Dropping a guard into a loop
As far i understand that this can be countered in some ways, just dropping a guard into a loop is part of what makes the Knight boring to face, as some people say (i don't totally agree). To adress this - considering all the buffs above - i would put a restriction on the minimum distance the Knight would be able to drop a guard: you have to draw at least 10m of path to deploy a guard. Until you haven't drawn 10m of patrol path, you can end patrol mode; if the patrol times end and you haven't drawn at least 10m of patrol path, your power enters in a cooldown, no guard is deployed and you can't use your power for 3 seconds.
This would force Knight to play more strategically than just dropping a guard into a loop everytime.
Well, thats all for now. I really LOVE the idea of this Killer (power and visual) and i really want this game to improve and get to a healthier state.
Lets discuss! Hope you guys are fine!! Thanks
About the hate it gets, i think its kinda of underserved, since the problem was Knight alone, but the Old Eruption + Gen Kick Meta.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598486#Comment_3598486
The problem is getting value from a perk when it should not give you value.
But you're not the arbiter of when a perk should or should not give value. Nowhere in DS's description does it outright say 'this is only for when the killer tunnels you'.
also, you forget that denying the killer a potential hit or even a down can turn the tide of the game, specially since the killer can fall to the DS + Unbrekable lose-lose situation.
But you're not denying a hit. This is like complaining about FTP giving an instant health state. It doesn't create health from nothing, much like DS doesn't blank out a hit like OTR does.
I think most of the people here - i hope so - are not against good perks for survivors (i also play survivor too). The problem is using a perk which has a VERY STRONG EFFECT to a situation it wasn't designided for and still getting great value for it.
But you're not taking that strong effect into a situation it wasn't designed for unless the killer makes the mistake of picking you up. If they don't, you wasted time running from hook into chase, waiting for the opportune moment, taking a hit, going down, and then you have to spend your time recovering or getting healed by another survivor, costing them their time too.
That is not a strong effect. That is a No Mither tier effect.
It's not abusing a perk, it's soft-throwing.
I'm not intending to be an arbiter wheter or not a perk should have value, but the whole discussion about Decisive in this topic is about buffing or not because its AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK. I don't see any other reason to buff Decisive if its not for making tunneling worse for killer. If the intent for the perk its for so many usages (bodyblock, anti-tunnel, aggro) i think the perk is fine: you just use the basekit BT to run towards a strong structure, use Decisive and then the chase restart.
Sorry, but its not throwing: a down in a match can be the difference between get multiple kills or multiple escapes. Now, if someone blocks you from getting a down, denying you even the possibilty of getting another hook (because the will stun you, get a health state and the run) its a massive downside for the killer. You need to remember that if someone with DS bodyblocks the killer, the other person will run away as far as they can, getting so much distance that you will need to start over the chase again.
In that regard, i will say it again: there should be measures to prevent Decisive weaponizing against non-tunneling killers. If there is not, i don't think Decisive need to be buffed by any measure.
Edit: about the FTP + Buckle Up combo, it DOES CREATE a Health state. A 10s temporary one, which can give the survivor 40 meters to run. So you wait until the 10s health state is gone, or you just eat it and let the chase begin again.
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@timetodohottakes said:
Title, since they will rework all the add-ons they might as well fix his "features" that aren't meant to be, cna it be expected to be fixed?
I hope that while they nerf the Blight's addons, they make him easier to play. I'm learning Blight, but i think his skill floor is quite high for newer players.
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@Firellius said:
Since folks here don't seem to be willing to look at the entire scenario and consider the extra time wasted, the difficulty of pulling it off, the low likelihood of it being useful and the fact that it needs additional perks to support it, I want folks to also take a deep breath, and say the following to themselves:
"It is okay for a survivor perk to sometimes benefit the survivors"
Because y'all are hardcore arguing that the perk should do literally nothing.
The problem is not getting value for a perk. The problem is getting value from a perk when it should not give you value. Decisive is obviously made to punish tunneling killers, who wants to HOOK the same survivor twice in under a minute. But since the perk can be abusable in so many ways, it gets value not just against tunneling, but against the normal stuff that happens in a game, like going after someone in a chase.
Edit: also, you forget that denying the killer a potential hit or even a down can turn the tide of the game, specially since the killer can fall to the DS + Unbrekable lose-lose situation.
Its hard to get an example from killer perks - surv and killer perks are quite different - but imagine if perk like Deadlock could be used to bodyblock a survivor to get a hit. It was designed for that, but could be abused to, granting "for free" two strong effects.
I think most of the people here - i hope so - are not against good perks for survivors (i also play survivor too). The problem is using a perk which has a VERY STRONG EFFECT to a situation it wasn't designided for and still getting great value for it.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597984#Comment_3597984
"I think Decisive should actively punish killer who wish to hook the survivor just after being unhooked, not punish a killer for winning a chase and letting someone slugged."So here's the issue with this. Survivors will go out of there way to harass/annoy a killer to force a DS even if the killer has no interest in tunneling. This is another form of weaponizing DS. How? Granted this is DS from another life, but it's still a prime example of how survivors can weaponize perks.
Jane was hooked 2 HOOKS AGO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhke0kH3gD0
Clearly you see that I had no intent to tunnel (How I avoided Yui, deep wounded Feng and continued the hunt for thickness) but I still got punished. Granted a situation like this will never happen again with DS, it's still a prime example of weaponizing the perk.
I didn't account for that situation because it can't happen anymore because of the conspicuos action system. But yes, you've been punished for "tunneling" even when not tunneling at all. I'm tired of eating Decisive when i just want to chase other people normally but someone gets in the way of the chase to get value of an anti-tunnel perk when they are not being tunneled.
I really wish they account these type of situation in a possible Decisive Buff so there is little to no way to weaponize a anti-tunnel perk.
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597405#Comment_3597405
Tbh I think Map of the realm should be Basekit.
Map of the Realm is something that i think most of people agree. I wish call to arms (the speed of the addon) and dried horsemeat woudl also become basekit, so we could explore a little more the Knight's addons. I also think that there should be some kind of incentive to long patrol routes, and some other minor tweaks (some minor nerfs after those buffs). I've made a topic with many suggestions on how to put the Knight into a better spot.
The Knight is not in the worst spot, but its not in the best spot either.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597621#Comment_3597621
No need to disable the DS locker play
killers will just slug and it will be annoying so no
I disagree. Removing locker plays remove the ability to force the killer to eat a DS. I don't like the idea of just entering a locker to force a killer to eat a DS or just go search for someone else in the other side of the map. I think Decisive should actively punish killer who wish to hook the survivor just after being unhooked, not punish a killer for winning a chase and letting someone slugged.
A slug is a type of pressure which easily can be lost if someone is nearby or the person have Unbrekable. I don't see too much problem into this.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597621#Comment_3597621
About "weaponizing" anti-tunnel perks. I feel like I'm just not understanding what the problem is here, exactly.
If I understand correctly, 5s DS would be a "problem" because it could be weaponized in tandem with OTR to body block and either extend a chase or stun the killer.
Now, you know this very aggressive survivor has DS because they were just recently unhooked. So, Why would you pick them up? Further, if they're doing this, that means you have two survivors not on gens. Is that not a good thing?
Most of time, Decisive comes with Unbrekable, so either you leave them slugged while so he can get up soon, or you take the stun and start the chase all over again.
Its not just "two survivor not doing gens", its a very agreesive survivor denying a killer a hit or even a hook, which can be used apply pressure on the match.
The last match i had someone with a DS doing this, i was at 7 hook stages running for a Cheryl who would die on hook, then i got blocked by a Thalita with Off The Record and DS, while the other 2 people were slamming gens. Look: going for Thalita was a very dumb decision because she COULD HAVE (and INDEED HAD) antitunnel perks, which could make the chase longer than i could afford, then i went for Cheryl. But i couldn't, because Thalita had anti-tunnel perks which allowed her to freely block me without too much punishment. I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO TUNNEL, BUT I WAS PUNISHED BY ANTI-TUNNEL PERKS EITHER WAY.
Weaponized anti-tunnel perks remove the killer skills to choose the best chases and forces the killer to just tunnel - which is not always the smart choice. Weaponizing anti-tunnel perks is a big problem and i hope the devs does not ignore this issue.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596602#Comment_3596602
Tunneling should be nerfed as much as possible. Byproducts like using DS as a weapon are something we need to just accept. Instead, killers should be buffed in different ways so that weaponizing DS wouldn't be much of an issue anyways.
The game should move in a more healthy direction for both killer and survivor.
Well, if that the case, most of the killers would need to get HUGE buffs to compesate an abusable meta. I don't know if thats the best option, specially since survivor who don't use the meta perks would be punished.
TBH, i don't think the 3s DS is weak, its weak against the top Tier killer (S and A+). A good buff on DS would be, insteaad of increasing the stun timer, remove all the power charges from the killer and forcing it into at 5 seconds cooldown. This way the top tier killers would not have an easy time "eating" a DS and then going after their targets
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About weaponizing anti-tunnel perks, i have 2 suggestions:
- While under any Endurance effect, the survivor does not have collision with the killer. This could prevent survivor who have being just unhooked to bodyblock a killer to force them eat their Off The Record and/or Borrow Time. Also, this would prevent some killer from bodyblocking a just unhooked survivor to wait the 10s Basekit BT to down them again.
- Prevent Decisive from activating from lockers. This way, a survivor could not bodyblock, lose a health state and then go into to the locker to force DS, leaving at least the option for the killer to slug the survivor in case he/she tries to bodyblock for a friend. Of course they will use UB + DS again, but at least they are forced to use their Unbrekable in this situation.
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@Astel said:
STBFL and Mangled/Sloppy in this list is worrisome and makes me very anxious.
I don't think its a nerf to Sloppy (I hope).
STBFL is one of the most fun perks in the entire game. If they gave a nerf to it, i will be very sad. Playing mostly B tier killers (Dredge, Knight, Deathslinger) is a very comfy, since its better to just use gen related perks (Deadlock, Pop, Eruption, Surge, Pain Ress) than STBFL if you just want to win.
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596418#Comment_3596418
Freddy is saying HI. This poor soul get ignored for 3 years now. Oh wait, I forgot: We had a Bug-Fix yesterday which is a nerf to the most strategic thing you could do in a chase (placing snares through walls, so you had to prepare the expected route the survivor would go).
Knight is in an awesome spot compared to the weakest, at least most boring, killer in the game, which is undoubtably Freddy.
I recognize that Freddy is at a much worse spot than the Knight, but the thing is that Freddy might be needing another complete rework to get in a better spot. The Knight just need some addons becoming basekit and some tweaks to become a very solid killer.
So, its just one case the work needed to solve the problem is so much less than the other
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Some maps like Suffocation Pit or Azarov Resting Place forces you to play around a trigen as they have a 3-1-3 gen distribution in a |---| shape. Lets waits for their "solution" reach the PTB then we can discuss more.
But i'm afraid of this design philosphy were bad players have been earning basekit mechanics to compensate their mistakes (the same mechanics good players can abuse from the start)
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@tjt85 said:
It's still pretty niche, but I think it could find a place in some fun end game builds now. I think that's really what it was designed for in the first place.
I did think maybe it could be a bit too strong on certain maps. But then again, that really only applies to a very small number of maps. And that's true of other perks too (like Balanced Landing, for example).
Aside from Midwich, the maps where it could be strong are maps with a great number of pallets (The Game) or maps with a great number of good loops (RPD). For most of the other maps, it will help in the main building loops when the generator is completed (if it gonna help at all).
Its more of a perk to help low tier killers (Like Pig, Myers, Sadako) than a perk that will help higher tiers like Spirit, Nurse and Blight.
Lets wait for it and see.
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@ARTRA said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FT3V8KSD0062/unnamed.png
I dont know why im kinda scared of some of those changes.
Also hope that ""killer tweaks"" are a little more creative that "X addon do this 1% better" like slinger aiming addons.
I guess:
Nerf for STBFL, mangled, sloppy.
Buffs for Grim Embrace quick gambit
Rework Shadowborn and M&A because Fov slider.
Doctor basekit discipline.
Demo can destroy/replace portals now.
Clown get killswitched because bug.
Also cries in Knight, Nemi and Doritohead for no addons tweaks.Cries in Knight because the killer could be fine with some minor changes :(
At least we are not under the MFT meta anymore
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The problem with buffing DS back again is that the perk can be easily weaponized against a non-tunneling killer. I hope they change Off The Record and Borrrow Time to make survivors lose collision with killers, and remove DS from triggering from lockers.
Now, even with the 3 seconds DS i'm facing survivors that will bodyblock after hook, waste their OTR then use DS after being picked up. Its not me wanting to tunnel: its a survivor using strong perk to draw aggro from the killer, putting the killer in a lose-lose situation.
I understand that there is a tunneling problem in the current state of the game, but i wish they come with solutions that does not harm killers that are playing "nice" but are pushed out of their way by some survivors
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I'm still sour about the batteries included nerf. You really need to get out of your way to get value from this perk (as you will be chasing near completed gens, which most of killers will agree that's a dumb strategy) and when you could get max potential from this perk in the endgame, they nerfed it? Makes no sense.
Even if you bring a full endgame build, when the exit gates are powered survivors can just open the gates and leave. If you bring No Way Out, they can click the gates and hide, specially if there is 3 survivors alive.
It could be an interesting perk for weaker killers, but now its just gone.
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@Echorion said:
At the end of the day before anything, they should honestly just make map of the realm basekit asap and replace the brown addon with virtually any effect, even if it's bad I wouldn't care.
They can actually do a proper addon pass later; but his crippling dependency on one brown addon is not ideal. I feel they should prioritize that in the nearest patch it would be the simplest and fastest way to help him; and then they can worry about everything else as time allows.
Yeah. The topic is just to raise discussion around the Knight, but i really wish they implement as soon as possible Map of The Realm as basekit. I honestly think the Knight would not have a power spike with this basekit addition, just would become better to play as.
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To me the problem isn't Background player alone but Background player when combined with the recent flashlight changes - the bigger time window to blind the killer. The perk would feel less frustrating to face if flashing the killer had a smaller time window, a more precise one. With the current blinding timing, a survivor can run from the middle of the map and reach the killer right before the time window for blinding is ending.
Lets give some more time to see how this perk is doing and then i hope the devs make some kind of change.
About FTP + Buckle Up: many things have been said about it, just hope the devs change this combo soon
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Dredge needs a buff in locker breaking, not a nerf.
The killer has a high cooldown, a basekit counterplay (locks), and not an opressive chase power.
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Just make them leave and go to next match. When they Tbag i always nod in response and that's it. If you take these things too seriously you end up mad.
Edit: also, some killers have addons that apply Bloodwarden or can prevent survivors from leaving the trial (Cenobite, Deathslinger, Freddy, Knight) You could try playing with those killers if this is bothering you too much
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It made some killers like the Knight or Singularity obsolete, as the 3% haste was enough to counter a good chunk of their powers.
Also, it made running from pallet to pallet something easier (specially with Windows of Opportunity), what made the gameplay against the MFT + Windows combo a hell to face, since survivors could give up a loop then go into another without thinking too much about it.
I'm happy the meta is changing
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Some killers like Sadako suffer much more from this as she has a lullaby while demanifested, what give away her position.
And i really would like some good accessibility options for killers too
@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593216#Comment_3593216
It's not the first time this sort of thing has been brought up in games. There's another famous example of this that I could think of which was the visual noise indicator in Fortnite, a pretty good accessibility feature until people figured out that it'd ping you of noises that most people couldn't even hear. Accessibility features are great but unfortunately they'll always be the 'better' option, playing without the visual TR depends on your reaction times, volume, attention, and in some cases the actual TR music itself so reactions vary. But with a visual TR it happens the instant the killer comes into your range and immediately gives you the information you need to make a decision. That'll always be a thing with this sort of stuff. The visual TR is great for the hearing impaired but it's even better if you're not, it's not necessary to use but it's kind of like WoO where using it gives you a tonne of extra information you otherwise wouldn't normally get.
Since the implementation of visual heartbeat I'm seeing survivors pre leaving gens quite consistently. I have some ideas on how to change this, but it would hurt the gameplay of people with hearing impairment, so maybe its not the best solution.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592567#Comment_3592567
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BR5JWU3DQSFT/image.png
Me play as Myers without slowdown with 73% killrate seeing other killers struggle for a win.
Yeah, i have over 80% killrate on Knight, but that doesn't mean anything.
Maybe its something tied to the region? Most of players that i go against in my region have 1,5k to 3k hours.
I know very good players (who played in comp against good international teams) and agree that if you play completely nice you will probably take some escapes easily
Edit: and if you are playing tombstone piece myers, that's a completely another situation.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/397934/how-you-would-feel-if-ds-ruin-buffed
The only possible scenario in which DS gets buffed to a 5s stun , requires that DS's offensive capabilities get *severely nerfed*.
It makes no sense for DS to work after you went out of your way to bodyblock for your rescuer (A conspicious action by dictionary definition : "standing out" "noticeable") , hence forcing the killer to chase you because the rescuer is on the other side of the map by now and then you hit them with a DS, even though you forced the chase on you.
It also makes no sense for the counter to DS (slugging) to be counterable via forcing a locker grab.
DS should legitimately only work on deliberate tunneling.
I've been facing multiple people bodyblocking with basekit BT + Decisive Strike just because they can.
If they buff decisive again, i wish they remove some of the offensive ways this perk can be used
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@MarylinMonhoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592315#Comment_3592315
I (politely) disagree
Mediocre players using MFT might get lucky on some loops, but they will never loop long enough to buy significant time for their teammates to do gens
Good and even average killers won’t get much trouble with this, patience is key, they just need to focus and wait for the surv to be greedy and starting to make mistakes
Personally, playing mostly M1 and being an average player, this combo never makes me sweaty
Usually, against great survivors I will take a beating no matter what perks they have, this combo is only icing on the cake (that makes sense ? I am french) so that makes really no difference if you know how to loop and how counter each killer
I've seen players with Windows of Oportunities + MFT running from pallet to pallet without even looking back and still holding the killer, even against good killer players.
The problem with MFT + other perks is that even mediocre loopers can hold the killer for a long time because of the reduced speed difference.
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I really would like to see your matches where you "tunnel" then get a easy 4k. Focusing on one person is an easy way to get a 3 man out if they focus on doing gens while the tunneled person drops all the pallets in the map.
Hardcore tunneling is not always the best idea, specially since you can be slowed down with Off the Record, Decisive Strike (a smart usage of Decisive can turn the tide of a match), Dead hard and other anti-tunnel stuff. If you don't use Corrupt Intervention or Deadlock, the gens will go even faster.
Tunneling without reasoning is a recipe to get a 3 man out
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591489#Comment_3591489
You wouldn't have a game if the killers were SLOWER. I really don't get how you thought you had any kind of point there.
People always bring that argument that "killers are faster". I wonder how killers would get hits at 4.0 with pallets and windows in every map. If small percentages of haste can make survivors hold W indefinitely, imagine if killers were slower??
For those who says "killers are faster" i recommend playing Huntress without using her power anytime in a match. She is faster numerically, so this should be enough to end chases, Right?
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If DS goes back to 5 seconds, i really wish they remove the collision with the killer for survivors under endurance. I'm facing many survivors with OTR + DS + DH + MFT bodyblocking just after they get unhooked and would be so infuriating if a survivor could use those anti tunnel perks as offensive as this.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591145#Comment_3591145
and i thought the "it's just 3% bro" people are the worst, silly me. just play plague bro :D
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590901#Comment_3590901
let's break it down and see how they aren't possible.
Hit someone within 11m following a chase with a free hit, especially if doubling back at walls/corners.
playing against potatoes that would give you a hit like that shouldn't be a hard task anyway regardless of what perks they run, even if they are that bad and took your "bait", essentially you had to hit a hit tanker without them even giving the hit to you.
Spread the pressure from the onset, keeping multiple Survivors injured/hooked so they are unwilling to take aggro.
what does this mean? play legion/plague? play top tier killers you can apply high pressure with?
this is only reasonable if you read that as "apply pressure TO the ftp+bu abusing degen". yes i'll tunnel them right out of the lobby, so their corpse won't bother me anymore.
A shadowed chase yields 33% gen slowdown, accept the 10% better Pentimento for free.
a successful ftp play (which can't be simpler and easier to pull off) leaves you with 2 injured people and most likely at least 1 gen worth of gen progress instead of your down and potential pop/pain res. congrats, you have almost 0 pressure and started the game at 4 gens.
Deep Wound either (or both) Survivor(s) to prevent additional Endurance procs.
lmao.
Choose who to chase based on positioning/hook states/Broken Status and pick the better of the two for that circumstance.
yes i'll pick the user and get them out asap. that's a valid counterplay.
Wait out the 10s and bodyblock chokepoints (windows/pallets/doorframes).
unless they have less than 4 digit game hours, they will find anything to run. even if it's a z wall, that's still better than them lying on the ground.
SO, please stop with this nonsense. i see you copy paste this to multiple topics, hopefully you won't anymore.
I was typing something to address this, but you did it first. Thanks
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591018#Comment_3591018
What's the point of trolling?
What trolling? I just said some, but i can surely say that MOST of the killer perks are situational.
Make Your Choice, Surveillance, Opression, Nurse's, Bamboozle, Dissolution, Enduring, Most of the Hexes, Mindbreaker, Spirit Fury etc etc. I think its fair to compare For the People with those perk: they can be clutch in some situations, but aren't broken perks.
Now, if you are talking about the meta killer perks (Pain Ress, Pop, Deadlock, Corrupt, Lethal, Discordance, Ultimate Weapon), its another thing. They aren't "situational" because they are adress towards the most common situation in the game: gen progression and finding survivors. As survivors meta perks are made to adress the most common situation for survivors: chase, altruism and tunneling.
Sorry, but you need to be kind of dishonest to say that killer perks are not situational, as most of them are VERY SITUATIONAL and SPECIFIC
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@SqueakyArmor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590920#Comment_3590920
That's a wonderful post you made there. Liked the addition to prevent 3 genning with knight and the guard reworks. Did the devs considered to personally message you about it?
They never did, but i hope they have at least read the topic and consider the suggestions (or part of it)
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590807#Comment_3590807
Killer's perks are not situational
Really? Most of them are.
Infections Fright: only useful for slugging (there are better info perks)
Unrelenting: Just good on hag
Courlofobia: Good on doctor in a specific map
And many more. Most of the perks outside the meta are heavily situational.
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@fussy said:
Knight is my second main and i never understood why people think that call to arms needs to be basekit. it's clearly not. It's a good addon, but his effect isn't something you can't use his power effectively without, like it is with MotR.
He way more relies on Dried Horsemeat, because it's the difference between hit and not hit. Both with guards (especially) and m1.
His bugs is something very depressing. It's seems to me that with every update guards become more and more stupid and buggy. Now they even don't react on loud actions in his radius. I don't know how they do this without touching his power.
TBH, i think Call to Arms ( just the speed of the addon), Dried Horsemeat (the extra duration) and Map of the Realm all should be basekit, even if tied to some patrol length distance. If Behaviour ever give the Knight basekit MotR we will start to see Knight using Call to Arms + Dried Horsemeat always, because his basekit is kind lackluster in those aspects (chase duration, patrol speed and detection range).
I wish they gave those 3 addons basekit and fixed some bugs. Knight would be much much more fun to play as.
I've made a topic on what Knight should be changed to become a top tier killer, in case you want to see.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390781/a-suggested-rework-buff-for-the-knight
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590104#Comment_3590104
We already have one: Ultimate Weapon
I don't think Ultimate Weapon is a busted perk - the problem the top S tier it can be paired. But this is another topic of discussion.
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I'm really don't want to criticize another survivor combo perk, but its hard to say that For The People + Buckle Up is a healthy perk combo. I'm starting to see people using this combo in soloQ (doesn't require too much coordination) , which used to be a only SwF clutch perk combo.
I think for the People by itself is a great perk, as it can draw aggro from the killer in key moments of the match. Think in this situation: you just unhooked a friend who has OFR. The killer comes to the hook to tunnel. You use For The People in your friend. Now the killer has to go through 3 health states to tunnel the unhooked person.
People in comp can turn matches with For The People , specially when the killer needs desperately to get a kill.
Anyway, i hope the devs adress this FTP + Buckle up combo soon, even if it requires buffing those perks separately
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@SqueakyArmor said:
It's been a long time since knight seen any fixes or QoL. I'm basically forced to use map of the realm and call to arms to make use of his power. You'll understand what I mean when you play knight on a regular basis.
His guards are so buggy too. I'm literally crazy for playing knight.
I would record it all right now and show a bunch of videos for visual explanation just so you can understand what I'm talking about but I am too lazy to do so and I have a feeling that someone else already did all of that.
Otz already made a video about the Knight and his many problems. I hope he gets some love in the January PTB. Its a very fun killer, hindered by its bad execution (bugs, addon dependancy, map dependancy, etc.. )
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
MfT was problem and it's gonna be nerfed.
But now we are getting complaints for SB too...
What perks we should use
SB, Lithe and most of the other exhaustion perks are fine. MFT was a problem for many reasons like: it could stay active almost the whole match, it had a very strong effect, specially against the weaker killers; it could be combined with other strong perks without a problem.
I hope we don't get more annoying busted perks for any side any time soon. Its bad to the game health.
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@russf10 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3584778#Comment_3584778
Yeah, that's why I said if they are slugged for 90 seconds, you have plenty of time to go for someone else if they are trying to abuse it, and they can only do that strategy a maximum of 3 times by themselves 90 seconds each pick-up. this way the only way it can be abused if the killer is slugging on purpose. Maybe you could implement a "give up" option if you've been slugged longer than 2 minutes too idk. Also a guy above me made a fair point to run unbreakable + exponential but nobody wants to waste two perk slots just so they don't get slugged sometimes cause it rarely happens.
1 time of this recover from ground being abuses can be enough for a killer to lose a match. For forever slugging, i prefer they give Finisher Mori - the match ends and everyone is out to the next one.
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@jonifire said:
Instead of nerfing MFT or UW, you could ask behavior for buffing perks, so that they are as strong as UW and MFT.
I think with many strong perks and some that are strong in their own way, the game would be much more fun and interactive!
The problem is that MFT make some killers MISERABLE to play as, specially the Knight and the Singularity. And its a great advantage against most of the M1 killers in the game. Its understandable that people were calling for nerfs to that perk.
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@ElionTron10 said:
It is impossible to repair a generator without a teammate going down, in a solo q team the teammates go in 2 sec down before the first generator is repaired. The perk is overpowered, on killers like Nurse, Spirit, Blight. If you're going to nerf MFT, then you should nerf pain resonance in return. In 60% of the matches its 5 hooks before the first gen is finished
"It is impossible to repair a generator without a teammate going down". I think this answer your point: its not the perk, but teammates. The perk is fine as it is, specially since it punishes tunneling killers.
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Ultimate Weapon is nowhere near MFT to deserve a nerf (as some people where complaining). Its a balanced perk, as aura perks can be stronger if not for distortion. You can't win a match just because of Ultimate weapon: it just helps getting into chases faster .
Nerf STBF will nerf pig again. I don't think i need to say much.
If they want to change it - although i don't think its necessary - , limit to 6 stacks and make that when you hit the obsession the perk lose just one stack. It will be weaker, but usable.
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You saying that is not what i have: 2 to 3 survivor going down in the extreme corners of the map just because they will get caught.
Really, those "comp" strats are everywhere
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@Annso_x said:
It seems I've finally lost all hope in the devs and the future of the game.
I've barely touched the survivor role for a hot while because solo q is a pain, and to no one's surprise nothing is done or even planned to improve things.
On the other hand killer will be in the best spot it's ever been when the MFT murder comes through, and I'm already bored after three games because it's literally just free 4k after 4k (and I'm not even that good).
Anyways, yes MFT deserved a nerf but BHVR proved once again they can only produce either busted or useless perks.
BHVR still stands by the calm spirit and pharmacy "buffs", there's better chances of Pig and Billy being nerfed than Blight (who of course will stay untouched for an other six months at least), and all the "map balance changes" do is adding a bunch of unsafe pallets everywhere because the devs apparently think it's peak gameplay when both sides dislike it. Chapters are not worth buying because the perks are either already bad or they're way too good and will nerfed to the ground anyway, and the whole cosmetics FOMO thing is tiring.
Finally, that trickster buff. I have no doubt it will be changed before it goes live but just the fact that it was planned, made and approved before being presented as "we know survivors think he's annoying so we've made him a whole lot worse" did it.
That was the last nail in the coffin. Just the fact that the devs think it's fine and worth testing made me realise I've given them too much credit and maybe the people who claim BHVR barely understands their own game were onto something.
In any case, I'm playing Demo and Dredge until I finish the rift and will uninstall the game when it's done. I also won't come back here, so good luck to everyone (especially the mods). Don't forget to have a bit of fun.
Sorry that you are feeling that way, but there is something that needs to be pointed out:
- MFT was a very unhealthy perk (as old Eruption and old Undying was). It completly countered some killers (Knight, Singularity, Huntress, Trickster) and made weaker killers weaker, as survivor took 20% more to catch than someone without a perk. Adrenaline, Sprint Burst/Lithe/ Off the Record, DH, still will be strong perks that you can put into your build a make a difference in a match.
- Yes, SoloQ deserve more buffs, but not in action speed or extra hook stage, but information: the Hud was a good step toward a better SoloQ, but we need more info to coordinate more easily. Also, i wish there was a system where we could get match with people we've liked before easily.
- Killer is not just easy 4k. Maybe in the first couple of matches, but when you get at a higher MMR, you will start to struggle to get 1/2 kills without good strategies and builds. A nice team of competent survivors (even soloQ) can smash gen so fast that you will probably will lose 2 to 3 gens in your first chase without Corrupt Intervention. If you like playing killer, i would recomend you to keep playing as a killer you like to face challenging matches. Its fun.
Anyway, if not in DBD, i hope you have your fun in a game you like more.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Singularity has quickly become one of the least played killers, which is bad considering he's the 2nd newest killer. On Nightlight, he's 5th least played killer. Though his real pick rate is probably lower since Nightlight mainly uses stats from PC players. Without any change, Singularity will probably reach Twins levels of obsecurity in the future.
The reason no one plays Singularity is that he's too hard. Otz, a player with 11k hours, is currently trying to win streak on him and only averages 3-4 wins before losing, which is extremely low compared to his other killers. This killer is also impossible to play on console due to the need to quickly aim pods. The main issue with Singularity is that it's hard to apply Slipstream while it's too easy for survivors to remove it.
Firstly, EMPs should only remove Slipstream on the survivor using it. Given how easy it is to acquire EMPs, it shouldn't be able to mass remove Slipstream. Slipstream is similar to Plague Infection, which is much harder for survivors to remove while also having a stronger effect.
Secondly, when switching to a pod, the camera should automatically face the nearest survivor. This is the only way to make Singularity playable on console.
Finally, they need to make it possible to place pods on all surfaces. There are too many situations where you try to place a pod on a perfectly flat surface and it doesn't work.
I think Singularity is already a very good killer. It just needs some adjustments to its to kit to make it more fun to play as.
I would do some things like:
- Whenever a survivor is hooked, it remains infected. This way would force people to farm EMPs to do save and Sing would not lose infection pressure because it played well (downed a survivor then hooked).
- Lower the cooldowns between infecting and teleporting with the cam.
- Also, give every survivor infected a separated cooldown for pods. If there is two survivors in the camera range, let the camera infect them both; if you survivor is infected and then another survivor runs through your pod's vision, make it possible infecting him/her with no downtime
- Make it possible to scan if at least 60% of a survivor body is being seen (i hate when small rocks and leaves block the pod vision)
- Other quality of life improvements (bugfixes, better cam move, etc.)
One thing i would suggest, but i don't know yet if its a good suggestion is to whenever the Pod infects someone with an EMP, the EMP breaks. This would prevent those dumb situation where you infect someone, but he/she is holding an EMP and just cleanse the infection in seconds (and also break your pod).
Its a very fun killer that deserve some love!!
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Exit gates should always be close: in a ending scenario where 4 is alive, one person can distract the killer and the other ones can open the gates.
In a ending scenario where there is only one left, the survivor should aim for the hatch to get out. If the killer killed everyone and closed the hatch, there is no reason to give him a penalty for completing his objective just because of survivor deserve one more chance.
@myersgoestochurch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585123#Comment_3585123
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585124#Comment_3585124
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585125#Comment_3585125
I'll make sure to remember that next time I witness a bothered killer main crying about loops or hook placements. Thank you guys :)
Hook Rng and loop Rng are another topic: its not fair to lose a hook stage because most of the hooks in the map are in corners or far away; also, good loops too close to each can make it very hard to low tier killers.
Gates Rng does not affect the match in this proportion: if the gates are too close to each other but there is 4 survivors alive, the killer can't do much.
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I was part of the experiment of hidding prestige in lobbies. People keep saying that "prestige doesn't mean skill" but we can't deny it generate some expectations on us, specially when there is multiple p100 on a lobby.
I wish they make this a common mechanic, as hiding prestige is a way to make the killer play more around the actual match than behind an expectation from the start of what the match will be
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3581186#Comment_3581186
We got a second wave of Hex Perks that only spawn on the map once their condition is met, ie Plaything, FaceTheDarkness and now the new TwoCanPlay and I would argue that this Hex perks are much more fun to play, because they offer a sort of reliability that's totally missing from the traditional hexes.
Why am I writing this paragraph? Because I think boons could use a second wave of effects, too. Right now all boons are streamlined to having the same range and effect around the totem, no matter their effect.
I would love more personal boons. Something like
Boon: Dark Theory - the first time ou get wounded, a dull totem on the map gets blessed and you gain a mapwide +2% haste effect that persists as long as you are wounded. But for every second being chased by the killers, they get 1m aura reading on the totem. The perk gets deactivated permanently once this totem gets snuffed
Or another reactive one:
Boon: Charmed Life - the first time you are put into the dying state, one dull totem on the map gets blessed and you enter deep wound. This Boon now holds a part of your life force, if the killer snuffs it, your aura will be revealed for 9s and you become exposed for 1min.
Lets stop with perks giving health states for free. They make the low tier killers worse.
If the survivor remained broken for 240 seconds or the killer had 240 seconds of aura reading, i would agree. But this way it would only make the mettle of man problem all over again
Edit: about the OP discussion, survivors still have very strong and realiable perks to use: Dead Hard, Decisive, Windows of Opportunity, Resilence, Deja Vu, many exhaustion perks, Boon + Overzealous.
MFT was a problem in the game and I'm happy its gone from its original state (still will be a strong perk in some combos). Survivors still have plenty of good perks to use
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I would say no only simple, but efficient too. Clown has a very simple power (if you consider just the purple bottles) but its not that popular due to not being that strong. The same with Doctor.
Wesker, Blight and Huntress quite have some power in their kit that make them reliable killers in most matches.