Rickprado
Rickprado
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577426#Comment_3577426
i was but trust me there were literal people unironically say "mft is risky". mft defenders came up with the funniest arguments you could ever see about any topic, but honestly they kinda had to to defend their hilariously broken perk and not lose it one day.
TBH, the scary thing is some people in our comunnity REALLY believes MFT is a fair perk, even being a perk that completly counter some killers (The Knight, SM, 4.4 Killers, 4.6 with no chase power) and make them unbelievable bad.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576339#Comment_3576339
nah you wouldn't understand it. being injured is a risk, it is your choice. killer makes you an offer before hitting you: either they don't hit you and you run at normal speed or they hit you but you get faster. see?
Imagine killers having a perk that when they lost 2 gens they would get a permanent 5% haste for the whole match. The thing is: eventually you will lose a health state/generators. Its dumb to assume that its a "risk", specially since Thanato got gutted.
PS: After reading you post for a second time, i could sense some irony. Hope you are being ironic.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576129#Comment_3576129
That’s the one thing I dislike about the change, Slinger and Legion don’t really get the full benefit of the nerf compared to other killers. If they made it apply to deep wound specifically from endurance hits then it’d be perfect imo.
Now that MFT is nerfed, think it will be far less common to face in matches. Even Legion and Deathslinger will benefit from this nerf.
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@HugTechLover said:
Just take the loss and move on. I’m sorry you encountered teams who can’t be kind winners. Not every team will be like this.
Continue to play who you like. Don’t focus so much on “winning”. Just go into each match deciding to have fun regardless of the outcome.
I think when playing DBD, there is no better advice than this one ^
Really, if you had a bad match, just go to the next one. Its the best thing you can do for your fun and health. This game awards nothing but BP for "winning" so i don't think we should matter in wins or losses.
Now, if you are having dozen of bad matches - which i don't think its your case - you may need to review your playstile and build.
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@Official_NotRikka said:
In my opinion i think Xenomorph needs a nerf. Her crouch ability is too overpowered, they provide flamethrowers to get her out of her power, but they don't seem to even work on her. Not only that but the fact that she recovers the ability so quickly even without using the portal is so annoying. and the fact that she can still hit survivors as an M1 in crouch mode is so annoying, it's either you get hit with her tail at a pallet, or fake it and still get hit with her M1. The crouch mode is manly the only issue i have with the Xenomorph. Can someone tell me whether they think she is overpowered, underpowered or neutral. (if you say underpowered or balanced, can you please provide tips and tricks to counter the Xenomorph)
If they nerf Xeno again he will be a rival to Freddy and Pig. He is fine (and i think he was fine before the first nerf)
Countering Xeno: put turrets in loops and whenever you hear him go to turrets. Do not greed on gens without turrets. Remeber: to counter his power you need to play around turrets.
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I think we have a much bigger variety now than ever before; Survivors have Buckle Up + For The People; MFT + DH; Boons and Overzealous; etc.
Killer have less variety of perks, but at least have some. Lethal or Corrupt for early game/ Pop and/or Pain Ress for Gen Regression/ Sloppy and Save the Best for m1 killers.
I wish they buff weaker perks (not adding Endurance or haste to them, but doing new things) so they become more useful.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
It's sad they're butchering all the maps one by one and survivors are quiet for some reason, I want to see it reversed for maps like midwich/dead dawg, just for the lulz to see killers reaction, increase size and more safe pallets
Do you really think Garden of Joy / Old Borgo are fine maps? Really, they were very strong for survivors, especially against weaker killers. I'm happy we are going to a have a more healthier selection of maps
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568342#Comment_3568342
They can and are seen as toxic behavior by many. Everyone is allowed their own perspective. No need to invalidate someone's feelings. OP did not say it's a fact but rather that they feel it's toxic.
Being tunneled for 3.5 hours must be very frustrating, and one must question why continue playing if that's considered acceptable game play. Idk about you, but I play games for fun, and I'd rather endure another EMG and NVC torture test then deal with that junk.
As my mom says when she hears us playing in a sarcastic manner, "your game sounds fun!"
It needs to be unrewarding and 3vs1 needs to become stronger, because doing something so easy should he a free win.
Like I keep saying on this forum, if my 10 year old niece can get 4Ks without tunneling, then that tells me everything I need to know.
Can your niece - who do'nt even have the recommended age to play this game - get consistently 4Ks? Or its just in a single match? Really, i know some streamers that can get nice matches playing a match not focusing hooks into one person, but spreading through the whole team of survivors. And yet, those streamers have 8k to 10k hours of DBD, facing people with 2 to 3k hours. And they endure a lot of losses because of this, but its their playstile.
Sorry, but if your niece keeps playing with a tier B/C (even some A tier), eventually she will get to a point where most of the time the first chases will lead to 3 to 2 gens lost, even being very fast chases. Its not about the killer, but the current state of the game: people are getting better and better at doing objectives, doing gens even faster. If you spread hooks through everyone, you will get to the end of the game with everyone dead on hook but alive enough to leave.
Tunneling and camping cannot be seen OBJECTIVELY as toxic gameplay, mostly because its not a personal thing. Except for cases where the killer knows the survivor he/she is facing, they will use every strat at their power to ensure a win (as survivors do) .
I think that once most understand that tunneling and camping are tools to solve some core design problems of the game, they will abandon this mindset of "camping is toxic" to understand that this is not personal, but a way of playing to achieve a win.
Tunneling and camping does not lead to a certain win: there is some situations where camping and tunneling can be detrimental to the killer, as the survivor team can play efficiently around gens and even secure the escape of the target survivor depending on everyone perks.
Really, if that is your experience with the game, you should consider find some friends to play with, or play another thing. I have fun playing DBD as Solo Survivor, SWF and playing killer. If there is a time where i cannot enjoy it anymore, i will play another game for sure, as games are a way to relax and feel good, not feel stressed about it.
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Yeah, i've been lagging and teleporting through the matches. The servers in this event are awful.
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Sorry but tunneling and camping cannot be seen as "toxic behaviour": i would say in 80% of the matches, its just a strategy to put pressure on the other team. There is sometimes when a killer camps because it received a teabag, but i think its not the majority of times. I also don't consider teabagging, pointing and click a flashlight a toxic behaviour - its a type of mindgame that survivors do against killers to provoke and be chased.
Now, post-chat offense, yes, its toxic, and its a problem in this community. People can't understand that its just to go next, they need to rage.
I think most of the "toxic" behaviour in DBD happens after the match ends, with post game chat or messages in personal profiles.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
This isn't a permanent way to get Endurance. It's just an event. Killers get the better effects from Haunts anyway.
I don't think killers get better effects, specially considering the time efficiency when doing this event (1 killer use the same time that one survivor, while there is 1 killer vs 4 survs). You get a small haste and undetectable, which can be quite good for instadown killers, but not good for the majority of killers.
But yeah, its an event, people need to chill and enjoy. If someday it turns into a base mechanic, then we can discuss
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The Knight. I wish i could see what this killer would be if redesigned in a better engine and with a better AI
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@LuthirFontaine said:
Just wondered if there is any news about this, not really fun just laying here .. ( yes I know about unbreakable, it only works once)
The "fix" you are saying is the finisher mori? Because they gave up on the basekit Unbrekable
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@Krazzik said:
Over 3000 hours in this game and still have games where I barely get 1 hook in the endgame. Seriously just gives me the worst feeling I've ever had in video games.
Doesn't matter what map I'm on or what perks I bring or what killer I play, I still have games where I just can't do anything against the survivors, and it feels like I've just wasted all these hours and have nothing to show for it.
The thing is: which killer you are playing? The killer REALLY matters: if you playing a ranged killer, a M1 killer, a tierS or a tier C killer, this one matters the most.
Then, we need to see HOW you are playing: if you are playing a M1 killer, you are breaking EVERY PALLET THEY DROP? Thats not good;
playing a M2 killer: you are using his/hers power effectively? If you don't, you need to pratice a little more to get used to it.
Playing a trap-setup killer (Hag, Trapper, Skull Merchant) ? You need to setup first before starting your chases.
Anyway, give this info then we can help you better
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@mecca said:
The skill required to play survivor is so ridiculously high that everyone on the teams has to be like pros. It's insane. Matchmaking will never fix that. Survivors need buffed in all aspects.
The problem is most of the survivor are casuals that refuses to learn the game (or even don't have time to). People are still to this day doing every gen on one side of the map, refusing to trade hooks before someone enters a struggle, greeding pallets against instadown killers, selfcaring in a corner of the map, and many other stuff. I think SoloQ need some buffs on info (basekit kindred, or even Bond) but not anything more than this. Action speeds should stay the same - they are fair.
TBH, many of the killer players we have today have been to the old "Meta Hell" were DH, DS, Unb and BT (and Circle of Healing after) would make most of the killers tilt and rage. Plenty of these have learned how to optimize their gameplay in search for ways to counter the meta handicap, and many survivor relied on those perks to get a "boost" in chase and gain some time from the killer. Now we have a high number of hardcore killers facing a wide comunnity of survivors that relied on perks and items to get their chance at a match that they can't have nowdays.
Buffing survivors would make killer games sweaty as hell, limiting the killer pool to the High A or S tier killers with comp strategies. No one would be happy with this.
Survivors need to learn macroplay thinking, and this is far easier to do in a SWF than in SoloQ, although it is still possible in the last one.
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Its looks like a spooky hide and seek game, but its a really hard 1vs4 assym horror multiplayer game.
I agree. I've never played any other game where micro and macro strategies were so important to achieve a win.
Whiffing a hit/ falling for a mindgame can cost you a whole match; Also commiting or not to certain chases can very costly too.
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My worst fear is that it would be very exploitable, but it turns out to be just fine. A healthy addition to the game
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563178#Comment_3563178
I played like a dozen games with her back to back, to get a feeling of her new power and I still don't fully understand how she works ^^"
No, I read her power description and all and understand that scanning a survivor three times either damages them or sends them into deep wound and gives them a claw trap, but it nearly never happens because I did something skill full, but rather randomly, often at the other end of the map. You can set up a drone during a chase, forcing survivors to the abandon the loop or risk taking a hit, and the hinder and haste can come in handy, but I still havn't gotten into any "Skull Merchant mindset". A lot of survivors though accused me of playing a killer requiring no skill at all, I guess thats those that haven't read the patch notes?
One thing that bothers me is how rare and random you give survivors claw traps. 3/4 times when I look at my radar I see nothing, then at other times suddenly two survivors have claw traps on them. But the claw traps themselves got a rather short timer, you either need to have a survivor nearby right at that moment, to capitalize on the haste effect during the looping or run after the trapped survivors who might be just holding W. I really think that survivors should appear on the scanner more frequently, thats the main schtick of the SM, isn't it? Tagging survivors and tracking them around the map?
BUT the way survivors randomly get injured surely shakes things up a bit. I also never seem to be able to predict when I will get hasted or undetectable and I find the "reverse direction" quite tedious, even though I get the feeling that this is one of the nooks and cranies that make a good Skull Merchant player.
I actually would wish that we had two direction add-ons:
1) Every x seconds the drones change the direction that their scaning beams face.
2) changing the scaning beams direction changes it for all drones on the map, so you could just do this at random and maybe catch a survivor off-guard.
But now that I might play the SM from time to time, the big elephant in the room is this: which weapon is the best looking with the most interesting FX effect and should I buy?
I've wished her rework were something more focused on getting survivor with clawtraps while getting haste and info, leaving behind the concept of exposed or injure/broken. I really like her "faster on heels" kind of gameplay.
Like, if you were playing in a map with a horrendous main building (Garden of Joy), you could trap those loops effectively, getting most of the survivors a claw trap and make them play against a faster M1 killer (and maybe a slowdown basekit to hinder them on these loops)
Now, i feel she is quite nice to play as, but much worse to face, specially when holding generators. I've been facing 3gen Skull Merchants to this day and they don't feel any better to face.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563763#Comment_3563763
perhaps you should learn to counter 3 gen killer play-styles. disabling drones takes as much time as her setting them and kicking them then walking to another gen. all that time can be spent on doing another gen across map and survivor can also co-op 2 gens at once at same time as this is all happening. Put drones back accomplishes nothing for skull merchant. like @Xernoton stated, you can always chip generator progression on every killer as long you do not go down and trigger any regression perks or fail the easy skill-checks.
The problem is: the cumulative damage eventually will get you broken and she will get a speed boost, making survivor easy prey to her power. And its worse than before, because at least you could deny her power getting a claw trap; now getting a claw trap only makes her stronger and you weaker. Combine this with the oblivious addon and you have the perfect recipe for a mess.
there is no reason to take any cumulative damage with how crouch walking eliminates any drone threat.
If 3 gens is such difficult play-style to counter, they might end up buffing Potential Energy perk so it becomes super easy to break 3 gens. I saw somewhere recently that they are thinking of improving Potential Energy.
Sorry but 3-gen playstiles have never been a problem for me. The problem is Skull Merchant 3-genning, and only this. Buffing potential energy will be a mistake, as would make every other killer worse just because of her.
As i've said, i've faced some SM playing 3-gen playstiles and it was very hard to beat: she spooked us out of her gens, waited until one of us took a claw trap, and then chased. If felt very cheap, as the SM in question was missing hits, falling for 360 and fov techs and many other things. In the end, she won not because a good dominance of her killer, but because her cheap tactics worked.
Maybe its because SM just changed and we are learning how to counter her - and some players are taking advantage of no one really knowing how to face her now - but i think the devs should monitore this killer closely as it can become a problematic killer again.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
She still sucks to play against but at the very least she can no longer stall the game for an hour with minimal effort
You think. I'm seeing some people playing SM with a 3gen build. The game lasts 30min and she kills everyone. Not too much fun;
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563763#Comment_3563763
You will hear her, if she comes near. The drones only have a 10 metres radius, so you definitely hear her approaching. Otherwise she would need to set up her drones in a direct path, which would drastically decrease her chase threat. And you would also know from which direction she would come and could just look in that direction.
The real problem with her 3genning was that survivors were immediately exposed and had to run much, much earlier to not go down and her addons, which synergized quite well with Overcharge and Oppression. Now she needs to get downs on you to defend her gens, which is a significant problem when it comes to 3genning. You can't leave the gens to chase and you can't regress the gens without chasing. So survivors will slowly yet surely pressure their way through.
I'm not sure how someone would get 50+ win streak with her 3genning play style now. Are there any videos of them? It might be I overlooked something and if that is the case I would really like to see that.
The problem is: the cumulative damage eventually will get you broken and she will get a speed boost, making survivor easy prey to her power. And its worse than before, because at least you could deny her power getting a claw trap; now getting a claw trap only makes her stronger and you weaker. Combine this with the oblivious addon and you have the perfect recipe for a mess.
Maybe not 50+ correctly, but i'm certain more than 30 (You can count on his vod) I will send the link to his twitch on private message. I don't want to give any kind of popularity on foruns to people playing like this.
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To me, most of the time when people say its boring i think they really want to mean annoying or frustating (most the second one).
Like, playing against Pyramid/Cenobite/Deathslinger can be quite frustating if you try to loop them like a normal M1 killer, as you can go down without feeling outplayed (not that you weren't outplayed). When playing with those killers, you can get how hard they are to play and how more experienced survivors counters their powers.
TBH, i've been hardly bored while playing DBD and it mostly happens when the other side cannot stand up to the match (the killer takes 3 gen first chase / survivors can't make a single gen in the match) or just want to give up (killing themselves on hook/DC'ing)
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@luvcraft said:
They don't happen very often, but when they do they're really awful. Even if I face a wall while picking someone up, a teammate somehow blinds me from behind and I drop. And even if I slug multiple survivors, the remaining survivors are somehow right there to blind me when I pick one up.
I had a game yesterday against 4 flashlight SWF and I was playing as carefully as I could and got blinded on every single one of the like 8 pickups I got that match. it took them a LONG time to do gens, but it didn't matter because I wasn't getting a single hook.
Don't use lightborn: you will never get used to counter flash saves doing this.
Many people said the basic: hug your face into a wall to avoid a flash save. Always do a fake (stand right on top of the downed survivor, pretend to pick up but don't do that); some survivors will get hushed, get out of their hiding then you can hit them and do the pickup.
Some killers like the Knight/SM/Trapper/Twins/Singularity can use their powers to deny or hinder the flash save.
And the most important: think that if someone is waiting for a flashlight and you make them go down, its a enormous pressure you get -> 2 people downed and you everyone needs to leave gens to get saves and heals.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
she is wasting time. she is wasting time by walking around to place drones. how do you quantify poor placed drone from well-placed drone? those drones are visible regardless of how you place them. there is no hiding them and disable drones are completely inevitable.
Poor drone placement: right next to a gen. If you put a drone into a strong loop - like a jungle gym or something like that - at least the survivor have to spend some time going out of their way to break a drone. Now, SM can drop a drone next to a gen, wait for it to be broken, recall it and put it again.
@Xernoton said:
I understand that she is pretty unfun to play against but consider what her power really does and how long it takes her.
She is already Legion with extra steps and nerfing her would not make it any better. She'd still be a slog to play against (probably even more than now) because she would only set up her drones in chase. So you'd pretty much repeat her old Chase Merchant play style with worse results. That doesn't like a good idea to me.
Also, I'm not sure how she would be good at holding 3-gens now. The drones don't detect you while you work on a gen, so you can ignore them for the most part. And before she enters the drone's range you will still hear her TR, so you will know that she's coming. Her addons were also changed, so Overcharge shouldn't be that much of an issue anymore. Basically, if you nerfed her, she'd still be just as strong at holding 3-gens because her power doesn't help out in that situation anyway.
She is still good at 3-genning. If you break her drones, she can comeback and put then again; if you ignore them, she can use her basekit stealth to aproach, eventually making you broken when running away from the drones.
There is a guy in my server doing streaks with her using a 3-gen build, and he already achieved 50 wins. Its not about just not knowing how to counter her, but she has the same "Sadako Rework" problem: with little effort SM can create high amounts of pressure
Its less than a week before her rework, but i still think she needs some changes, or at least a more clearer counterplay.
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How you guys have been countering her 3 gen strat after the changes? I've been trying to disable drones, but it feels like it does nothing.
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Experienced players (or SWF players) don't do totems - they call the killer position.
TBH, i've tested this combo sometimes and had very underwhelming results. Its a good combo, but i prefer other perks.
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I wish BHVR added soon the Finisher Mori system. It would be a nice to end matches quickly.
Another thing the could add - this FAR MORE controverse - its a 30s basekit Corrupt Intervention. This way, killer could have a better start of match and be less reliant on mobility powers and RNG
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I love him! His design, his gameplay. I wish BHVR made some tweaks to the Knights, so he could become even better.
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To me the problem with the Alien nerf is that this killer already has a solid counterplay - Turrets.
Even when playing against it, i've felt pretty comfortable with his tail attack as i was always trying to looping it near a turret, forcing him to break it or become a m1 killer.
Now Alien has to play perfectly or is punished twice: by his cooldowns and by turrets.
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The Knight.
I was attracted to play him because of his visuals, then, after the changes in January, i've started to love his gameplay. The strategic bits, the ability to cause mayhem on the match, everything.
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@Hanuka5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539785#Comment_3539785
The Counterplay against Knight is pressing "W". The knight allready needs to stand to use his power and if he puts his guard close they need 2,5sec. to even activate, whats alot.
AND you can pick up the flag to end the chase and get a speedboost.
Thats the counterplay, and as knight players we can only be happy that people still figured it out. Since the guard is not cutting your way but only following your path, you can just use any obstacle to do 180 and catch the flag. You dont even need an obstacle or loop, its only important that the halfcircle you walk is not to narrow
the guard can catch another person entering the guard field of view
Would be a point, if there wasnt this big green circle, so every suv can see the range and easily avoid it.
Beeing a M1 killer without an ability for 24sec is NOT a good thing.
Buffing the guards hunt base speed can be quite a problem, as this will incentivize three gen and camping playstile with the Knight - we don't want another Skull Merchant
No thats ATM the case. How you said the Jailor is good in "locking things up". If you could stop your power by pressing your powerbutton again (and than your guards are on a cd for idk 3-5sec) , this woulndt change anything in a way of 3gens, but it would make it more useable in chases
Yeah, its hold W because of how much distance the Knight loses when he uses his power and has not compensation besides a small haste buff. If Knight had another thing to compensate this, i think he would be in a very fine position.
I think Knight should have some kind of punishment for missing a patrol - as Artist must endure some too when she put her crowls in the wrong position. This considering Knight could have some buffs
Yes, i also think that the circle in the ground should be deleted or at least semi-transparent, forcing survivors to stealth against the guards, like they would do in some games like Metal Gear Solid or Dishonored.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541640#Comment_3541640
I don't see how a chase killer standing in a 3 gen on knight is any different from any other chase killer standing in a 3 gen. that sounds like an excuse to not buff the killer.
Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself
in that sense, knight's already perfect in that design aspect but his power-level will remain gated until that design is altered.
So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
assassin can downs people with dried horse meat in some instances. it is only carnifex that fails achieve same goal. the jailer has that 2 vs 1 drop guard at loop design and do pincer attack design that you label as "Knight is boring to face" in your initial post. 2vs1 is part of game design at loops for knight. The issue is that being primary design and not secondary design makes him have a lot more weaknesses than he should have. his primary design should be long-range guard spawn patrols and his secondary design should be that 2vs1 gameplay which survivor will dislike due to the binary "you get hit here" gameplay.
I don't see how a chase killer standing in a 3 gen on knight is any different from any other chase killer standing in a 3 gen. that sounds like an excuse to not buff the killer.
Because Knight could stay within the 3gen and use his guards to harm/down people at distance, never comitting to a chase to get some progress. To be honest, i don't any other killer that can do that. If there is a way to get survivors PERMANENTLY broken and injured, the Twins could be played like this.
Anyway, my point still stand: Knight would be worse than Skull Merchant at holding 3gen buffing only the guards by themselves. I still think that buffing Knight so he becomes a strong chase killer would be the best way.
the jailer has that 2 vs 1 drop guard at loop design and do pincer attack design that you label as "Knight is boring to face" in your initial post.
Its not me, but a great part of our community think this. I always like to face a Knight, especially since his skillcap can be so high, that you can outplay him or be outplayed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540716#Comment_3540716
I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
The knight is already at his strongest when he has guard chasing you. It puts pressure on the survivor to move away from loops. The problem is that when your in the center of the map, moving away from loops is too easy because there a lot of pallets that survivors can go to outrun both knight and guard at same time when running in a straight line. That is what hold-w counter is referring to in your initial post.
he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
The knight get hits when survivor cannot transition between loops and knight can pincer attack the survivor. He already has strong anti-loop. It is that his anti-loop is entirely avoidable if there are loops for survivor to transition. The places where it is unavoidable is where knight shines. These places are in the corner of the map. This is why you can avoid the corner of the maps vs knight and you path in a way that makes it as difficult as possible for knight to do pincer attack. This is how you loop knight and how you waste knight's time in the chase. Giving knight 5% haste makes him better at cutting people off at loops in the corner of the map in which he already excel at. he does not need help at that. adding 10 meter restriction will not change his strength in the corner of the map because he can preemptively use his power as survivor is reaching the corner of the map. he still get same zoning hits. As survivor, only way to outplay his zoning is to avoid the corner of the map. by the time, he becomes not loopable, you should finish 4/5 or all generators. 10 meter restriction would make more clunky to play without changing much about this strength.
Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available
You can camp the banner as the knight. As long your closer to the proximity of the banner then survivor then you can m1 them before they get to the banner. When you m1 a survivor, you cancel the guard chase which makes banner disappear. The grabbing banner for survivor is generally only effective when knight is not chasing you with the guard.
Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
I understand the buff for this type of gameplay, but the Knight would become the most hated killer in our communitty, as many would use him to play like a Skull Merchant: Stand on a trigen, hurt survivors from afar and stop the game progress. Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself. So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539775#Comment_3539775
The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf. If i was doing it now, it would be something like overcharge/sloppy/eruption/unnerving presence. it plays something like scratch mirror myer's. you pick 3 gen closest gen at the start of the trial and you send out guards that patrol gens until you hit 4th guard. as you hit 4th guard, the 4th guard exposes you so you can play little bit like scratch mirror where you hug the survivor's back, instant place guard. They get exposed. You hit them. They go down. You put them on a hook. You kick bunch of gens to apply eruption and OC/Oppression. Sometimes you kick gens with guards. Rince and repeat until you kill everyone. There is also whole process of breaking a all pallets in an area so that you can use his instant down add-on effectively but this whole process is 3 gen in general for every killer. This strategy used to work with PWYF where you could charge 3 stacks of pwyf then use knight contract's but as of some patch, knight's power now consumes 1 stack of pwyf so 3 gen knight is not that good. You can still do it but it is just sort of a joke build
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
Lots of killer player put artist very highly. I don't think she's particular good vs good players and this isn't me saying that she is weak or anything. I just think she is overrated in term of overall power-level. Knight's power-level is underrated. it is stronger then people give credit for but i believe reason why artist is overrated and knight is underrated is related to counter-play and base-kit power difference. Knight's base-kit is bad. Knight becomes above average with map of the realm. Artist is above average by default and the add-on like Severed hands, Carrison swarm and Mamia shoes slightly boost her zoning/range capacity. the difference between artist with add-on and no add-on is not very big. It is like 4.0 vs 4.5. Very minimal power difference.
That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone. This entire logic can also be applied to Artist. Artist can put birds in specific places on most pallet loops and force you walk through birds where she fires bird and it does full heath-state of damage. Artist movement speed is slow down when placing a bird so you can transition to pallets. Just like knight, in corner of the map, she can place birds down where there is no pallet to transition so you either get hit by dire crow or her m1. I haven't talk about this about Dredge but his anti-loop is almost same.
Now I am going to pose a question. Does knight and artist have any answer to running forward? The answer is that both killer have answer to running forward but it is so weak that it barely matters. The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor. I say mostly because... MFT counters all his guard for hold-w and it is possible to run forward and outlast the assassin in very specific circumstances. The Asasssin guard is 1/3 of knight's guards so he has answer to hold-w 33% of the time. The artist has counter to running forward as well. She can throw birds. If she hits a bird, you become swarmed. When two birds connect, you lose a health-state. Between bird 1 and bird 2, if you start repelling as soon as you are hit as survivor, you have very little time between bird 1 and bird 2 to land follow-up hit onto the survivor. With efficient pathing and running forward, landing follow-up hits as Artist is somewhat challenging if the survivor stays in the Center of the map. You lose a lot of distance for missing. In summary, I think both character not good at countering hold-w strategies and they mostly excel at loop-zoning. The knight has requires a bit more outside of the box thinking to zone effectively from killer player. This is why I think the perception is that Knight is bad and Artist is good. Artist's zoning from killer player is far easy to achieve. it does not require as much strategy or mechanical skill to do. It just sort of works naturally.
-Dropping a guard into a loop
As far i understand that this can be countered in some ways, just dropping a guard into a loop is part of what makes the Knight boring to face, as some people say (i don't totally agree). To adress this - considering all the buffs above - i would put a restriction on the minimum distance the Knight would be able to drop a guard: you have to draw at least 10m of path to deploy a guard. Until you haven't drawn 10m of patrol path, you can end patrol mode; if the patrol times end and you haven't drawn at least 10m of patrol path, your power enters in a cooldown, no guard is deployed and you can't use your power for 3 seconds.
This is like saying to artist that you should not be able to direct-hit with birds and take full health-states. You should always get swarmed. Alternatively, making so you are unable to place birds within 10 meters of pallet or window achieves a similar effect as change 1. the change makes no sense. the power are meant to be used at loops. the summary of both characters is that they have strong tile shutdown but their tile-set shutdown is easy to outplay by strategically running forward as survivor. in my opinion, they're not good characters but they are stronger then m1 killers where you can greed loops and zero tile shutdown.
I would not bother to change anything about his loop shutdown. I would just give options to counter running forward so that running forward as survivor is more skill-based. The 5 changes that would do that is
-increase detection radius of Assassin and Carnifex to 12 meters, rework map of the realm to do something else.
-Increase max patrol path by 10 meters( half of the call to arms base-kit), call to arm still increase m/s of patrol path by 25%.
-Knight guards gain 5% bonus base movement speed when he draws a patrol path greater then 10 meters.
-When the Jailer is in the chase, the survivor's suffer a 3% hindered penalty during the chase.
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To avoid the old prayer bread problem with Knight.
-When knight uses his power, a sound is emitted globally around the map.
With these 5 changes, he does no longer relies on pincer attacks to be effective. He can just use his power everywhere and if he lands guard chase. The guard will get a hit itself. He would feel like Summoner type character where guards do everything for him. Knight can still do pincer attack but he is not 100% entirely reliant on that to get downs. right now he is entirely reliant on pincer attacks and it drags his gameplay down. Knight would be high-tier killer with said changes.
Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly
I think the Knight can be considered a 4/10 without map of the realm, and a 6.5/10 with it.
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf.
I've face this strat many times, and the Knight lost. TBH, i think 3gen Knight is annoying as hell, but not strong (different from the Skull Merchant). I've tested this strat sometimes and although i didn't lost, i only won because survivor were bad and uncoordinated (one survivor fell down to a Jailer).
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone
That why i'm asking for a for a haste buff for the Knight -> He wouldn't be a "corner killer" but a strong anti-loop killer, even in the early match.
The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor.
A good survivor will jump a window or drop a pallet as the guard gets close, or even do a 180 move around an obstacle and get the banner, even against the assassin.
I wont quote everything, but:
I think Knight should have a restriction on how short his patrols can be (in exchange for some HEAVY BUFFS in his kit), so he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
- I don't think guards should get easy hits by themselves, as it would make the Knight a worse Skull Merchant in holding gens and the game hostage, or even camping. Although i like the idea of a Knight playing like a Summoner, i think most of his gameplay would be toward holding the game until everyone is dead. I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
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Both are fine perks.
If you like to have aura reading and think you are facing too much distortion users, stack 3 aura perks (Lethal, Nowhere to Hide, BBQ, etc) + Corrupt and you drain their stacks very quickly during the match.
I'm rarely bothered by Distortion, as i tend to use non-aura info perks (Jolt, Surveillance, Deadman). You could try them as well
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@Hanuka5 said:
"For the Dried Horsemeat, i would suggest something: rework completly this addon and make the extra hunt time tied to total patrol path distance, gaining 1s from 10m total path to 4s at 32m total path. This would incentive Knight players to play more strategically with their power, rewarding then to predict where survivors will go instead of just dropping a guard into a loop (i will talk about that later)"
You mean remove the addon and make this effect basekit?
Although Jailer can be crucial to get a hunt against of a stealth survivor, his speed and chase duration makes him kinda lackluster when compared to the other two.
Not only that, its also the long patrouling time of 24sec, if he doesnt gets in a chase because you placed him wrong, your power is than blocked for whole 24sec instead. What we want (in most cases) is
- High movespeed
- Long chasing time
- short Patrol duration
High movespeed and long chasing helps us to catch the survivor. short Patrol duration helps us if we misplaced the guard in chase to get our power back.
I think if we could despawn the guards by pressing our power again it would help us alot
I like the other stuff that the knight gets a bonus depending on what guard he has.
I think one major design flaw of the knight is that holding "W" counters his power pretty well. Without addons:
Carnifex will make up 2,4m distance in a chase
Assassin will make up 4,8m distance in a chase
The Jailer will make up 1,2m distance in a chase
And thats... not mutch.
- Yeah, make Dried Horsemeat basekit, tied to patrol range (as this addon is the best one in long range patrols)
- I think the guard patrolling an area for a time, even when you intented that guard to chase someone, is a fair punishment for the Knight missing his power - its part of his counterplay. Although i agree the Jailer patrols for too much time, having the ability to cancel your guard at will would make the Knight a killer with no punition on missing his power, what i think its not healthy for the game. You also need to remember that even you miss a patrol, the guard can catch another person entering the guard field of view by mistake or at least lock the loop for a while.
- Buffing the guards hunt base speed can be quite a problem, as this will incentivize three gen and camping playstile with the Knight - we don't want another Skull Merchant. I think only Jailer needs some tweaks, as Carnifex harass a survivor for 24s and can be used as a form of slowdown and info.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538747#Comment_3538747
i think both are equally centered around zoning and controlling the map but they zone and control the map a bit different. Artist has less slowdown when controlling the map because it takes less time to get birds off then to lose guard chase on average but DMS blocks gens so she gets same game delay as he does. The knight also has 5% base-kit kicking but 5% regression is not good enough regression to 3 gen and I am not saying this should be buffed because.... 3 gen skull-merchant but you would need around 12-15% guard kicks to drag out the game to 60 minutes with him. 10% would probably drag out the game to maybe 40-45 minutes vs good team. depending on skill-level of survivor, he can kind of drag out the game for 10-15 minutes. if the survivor team is incompetent at breaking 3 gens.
of the two killers, artist has better base-kit for chase. this is one of reasons for her perceived strength. Knight add-on dependant while Artist add-on barely change anything. the other reason is that knight has different skill-set that is not intuitive for average player to learn. there are two skill-sets. the first is understanding of survivor pathing. this is how survivor moves in chase. I want to call the hag skill-set with placing traps but at same time, it is not comparable enough. it is like the predicting of pathing that a survivor is most likely to take. trapper also has this to some degree with traps at loops. it is hard for me to quantify this. the other skill-set is spirit phase-walking. I think both killer have roughly same time efficiency in chase as each other if both sides are equal at playing the role. I just think knight is a bit less easy? to play. He requires a bit more outside of the box thinking in my opinion.
I think they are similar in some things, but quite different. Both of them are centered around zoning, but what their powers do BEYOND that is different. Artist in kinda of a ranged killer, with their crows being used for sniping (even at short distances). A good artist can get a hit through wall after swarming, even against good survivors; the Knight is a killer focusing on reducing the pressure of the 4v1 mechanics of the game. The problem with the Knight is that is his current state, he is not quite rewarded for getting into a hunt against a good survivor or a coordinated team; Artist, by other side, is very rewarded for hitting a survivor with a crow (aura reading, potential hit across the whole map, survivors need to stop their actions to deal with the crows) and she can do this many times in a row. Knight, on other hand, can be has some rewards (aura reading on the guards, survivors forced to stop their actions) but lose all of his power while doing this, an a survivor can easily negate this pressure by dropping a pallet or jumping a window.
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available, or will just hold W to another loop if he/she sees the Knight coming. That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy, as Skull Merchant 3 gening is: most of the time you will have someone with your guard, you chasing another person, and two people doing gens; Skull Merchant can kinda lock all of the 4 survivors outside her zone. I don't think this is ANY HEALTHY for the game, but its a fact. Thats why i didn't ask for a stronger buffs in the hunts: i believe buffed guards hunts (every guard chasing 4.4 for 20s, ex.), where they can deal damage at distance, could turn Knight into a game hostage nightmare; I think would be healthier for the game that every hunts buff the Knight himself, as the raw power would be dependent on the skills of the player, not in a AI.
"I just think knight is a bit less easy? to play. He requires a bit more outside of the box thinking in my opinion." I agree with you. Knight has a interesting skill ceiling, based on predicting survivors moviment and actions. I've won matches with the Knight because a whole team came for a flash save - as i've predicted - and could not handle the surprise of being chase by an assassin while i with the Knight was defending the area where a survivor where slugged. The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537295#Comment_3537295
that is why i dislike playing vs artist. the killer just seems based around corner-killing. i am aware that you can use her power for range... but i feel like her range is wildly ineffective when I get chased by artist players. it is same thing with knight's guard at range. long range guards are ineffective vs hold w, very good at zoning at corner killing play-styles.
TBH, i think Artist is more centered around zoning than the Knight (that why i consider her stronger than him).
I think Knight is more focused around controling map areas, spliting pressure among survs when necessary or focusing all his power when needs a quick chase.
Long range patrols can be good against low or medium skilled survivors, but yeah, against good survivors its just waste their time. The problem of buffing too much long range patrols is that we can fall into another Skull Merchant problems, where the killer can control a gen and use his power to control another one from distance. That why i think the healthier for the game would be to buff Knight own chase potential while a guard is on the hunt, so long range patrols can get some value while without becoming too much of a hassle
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Search for "DBD Hatch standoff" and you will se that we have a much more healthier hatch mechanic than even before.
I think hatchs are fine.
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TBH, i'm having more fun right now than i've been in recent times.
As i play mostly killer, the game feels very fun after the healing nerfs. Only MFT being a pain in the ass, but i hope they change it soon.
I still do play survivor with friends - and sometimes in SoloQ - and have fun too. I think the game is in a very healthier state now that it ever was.
One thing made me enjoy DBD much more: changing my mindset from a competitive one to a casual one. If i win, its fine!! If i lose, no problem.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537329#Comment_3537329
His power is best to use on different survivors (working on gen), that's why surveillance is such a good perk for him. Kinda sucks against SWF tho.
In chase it's usually either in corners or to destroy pallets.
I would like to see option to directly use (button) guard for an action (destroying pallet/gen). That would make overall feeling way better.
Activation/range of guard (circle) could be looked at too. It kinda sucks when you finish path, directly see survivors, but guard won't chase.
Breaking directly a pallet - without going to patrol mode - would be quite a buff into his chase power, as the Knight would get even better in zonning.
TBH, i think the best part of the Knight is that you are capable to use his power to spread pressure among many survivors or to pincer one survivor, as you choose.
Knight can be an awesome killer with the right tweaks (as i've suggested above)
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536551#Comment_3536551
20% is very significant. And if you are talking about mind games, you must be talking about loops. And in talking about loops, you should know that the survivor hitbox is smaller than the killer one. Basically like this.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UDSWFMAYVTIR/image.png
Imagine that the black circle is a rock, and the green circle is the path the survivor takes and the red is the path the killer takes. The killer takes a longer distance around the rock because their hitbox is bigger than the survivor. Unfortunately we don't exactly by how much, but against good survivors who can tightly loop, it becomes very apparant.
When we talk about looping around structures like this, the "differences" in movement speed between the survivor and killer are already affected by the longer distance the killer has to travel around the loop. Thus any extra movement speed from the survivor is even more strong when looping.
But 20% in a straight line chase is also significant. I don't think you understand how long a straight line shift+w chase is.
For context on distances, load up a bot game as trapper, and do a max range lunge. You just traveled 6.21 meters.
Some data:
Survivor movement speed: 4.0 m/s
Survivor post hit movement speed duration: 1.8 seconds
Survivor post hit movement speed: 6.0 m/s
Killer movement speed: 4.6 m/s
Killer movement speed while lunging: 6.9 m/s
Killer lunge duration: 0.9 seconds
Killer hitbox extension: 1 meter
Killer movement speed while carrying survivor: 3.68 m/s
Killer Terror Radius: 32 meters
Killer hit cooldown: 2.7 seconds
Killer movement speed during attack cooldown: 0.575 m/s
Killer pick up speed: 3 seconds
Killer hook speed: 1.5 seconds
Generator repair speeds: 90 seconds
Average distance between hooks: 38 meters (~19 meters to a hook from any given position on average)
Average human response time: 273 ms (https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime)
Average map size: 9850 square meters (~99.25x99.25 meters for a square)
So, let's assume killers and survivors all spawn at opposite ends of the map. The survivors spend the first 20 seconds looking for a generator and the killer spends the first 20 seconds running to the opposite end of the map. With a killer having a 32 meter terror radius, and taking into account movement speeds and human reaction time. if we take the human reaction time and 6x it to account for figuring out the direction the killer is coming from and making sure you can run the opposite direction, the survivor will spot the killer in 1638 ms. To make math simpler let's round it up to 2 second. during this time the killer gets 9.2 meters closer. So now the killer is 22.8 meters away. During this time the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction of the killer.
Remember, no powers, no pallets, no windows, just a straight line. In order for the killer to catch up to the distance needed to lunge (killer lunge is 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds, survivor is moving 4.0 m/s during that time, so to land the hit, the killer must be 3.61 meters from the survivor at the start of the lunge. Let's round that to 3.5 to account for lag). This means the killer needs to close a gap of 19.3 meters, to hit the survivor The difference in movement speed between them is .6, this means the killer closes the 19.3 meter gap in 32.16 seconds. The killer then lands a hit.
The survivor then runs in a straight line and the killer is unable to move much for 2.7 seconds, only moving 1.5525 meters of distance. During 1.8 of those seconds the survivor is moving at 6 m/s and for 4 m/s for .9 seconds. This means the survivor gets 14.4 meters way. The killer now has to close a gap of 9.3 meters for a lunge. It takes the killer 15.5 seconds to catch up to the survivor and land another hit.
The killer now picks the survivor up taking 5.7 seconds (3 seconds for picking up, and 2.7 seconds for attack cooldown), /and they walk to the nearest hook about 19 meters away. This takes 5.16 seconds, lets say 5. the hooking action takes 1.5 seconds.
The time to find this survivor, hit them once, catch up, hit them again, pick them up walk to a hook and hook them took: 32.16 + 15.5 + 5.7 + 5 + 1.5 = 59.86 seconds. Or, about 60 seconds. This would mean the killer would likely lose 2 gens in the first chase. (just barely reaching the 3rd survivor before it finishes).
So, without using pallets, windows, anything at all. you are taking about 60 seconds to hit twice, down, pick up, and hook a survivor. Gens are 90 seconds. This means that you WILL lose 2-3 gens by the time you find the next survivor, and that is assuming just pure straight line hold w chases. Now when you factor in MFT making that second hit take almost 24.5 seconds instead of 15.5, now you are talking about 70 seconds.
Now get 12 hooks... Its impossible for killers who aren't nurse blight or spirit to keep up AS IT IS and that is not even factoring in perks like MFT.
You could make this whole explanation in a separated topic too; i think would be worth it.
@Topic
If 3% does not make difference, lets make a perk that hinders survivors with 3% speed for 180s after every hook. You would see clearly as the day as it this perk would become one of the most strongest killer perks in the game in a couple of weeks.
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@Luv2NotHateDBD said:
I love how anyone things 3% matters. The psychological effect on the otherhand is worth a billion dollar case study
I hope they release a perk that makes survivors 3% slower for the whole match in change for something, as 3% speed is negligible, right??
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@caipt said:
I think we can all agree that this perk is overtuned. At the very least, the endurance should not be lumped in with an already powerful effect. If and how would you change made for this to be a more balanced and/or healthy perk?
I think I would give the haste while healthy instead of injured so you need to heal for value+punishes you for a bad play rather than rewarding you+remove haste stacking+remove endurance effect entirely. Or I would make the haste ramp up from 0-3 over 30s.
I would do something like:
Remove Endurance effect.
After you take a hit (going from healthy to injured) -> If you are not exausted, you gain 3% haste for 40s. Makes you exausted for 60/50/40s.
Make this perk a exaustion perk.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
DbD become very different game after 6.1.0 update. Both sides lost their meta perks. Both sides got some base-kit buffs.
So if you compare pre-6.1.0 DbD with current DbD, which one you would prefer?
Far more the current one. I've started playing in 2020, right at Blight release. Before 6.1.0, i played mostly during events or while the Rift Pass was open.
DH was stupid, DS was kinda stupid in the hands of a good player, 4 man SWF was stupid to face; Blights/Nurse/Spirit using Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer was stupid. I also remember the times where before basekit BT a killer could just wait for a survivor to be Unhooked, down him/her, put him in the hook again and repeat until he/she died.
Really, the game is in a much healthier state now.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534343#Comment_3534343
In what way? Because they were working in the exact same way they had been working for more than 4 years (last changes were in patch 2.3.0).
It was never stated to be a bug by the devs. It was labelled as an issue, which can also mean an oversight in coding (like Spirit's and Bubba's addons). Or killers not looking down after a successful hit. However that would also imply, that we never actually had the "right" fast vaults before. Meaning you wouldn't even make this argument, if they had never tempered with fast vaults to begin with.
I think it was a very lame move from the devs to "fix" vaults almost after 5 years of they work the way they worked. The could call it a balance change, as its was never adressed as a known issue in any patch note i've seen prior to the change.
Anyway, for me, the vaults before Nick Cage were fine, i don't think they need to change anything, as most of hits comes more from latency than any other thing; also, some killer as Deathslinger or Huntress were missing their powers in midvaults as it were giving survivors iframes during the animation.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534135#Comment_3534135
Nah
its not like killer players can't play survivor as well and enjoy the mechanic themselves
its important for the balance of the game
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527936#Comment_3527936
Yes because the side losing can also win by RNG, and vice versa
There is no way Hook Kobe RNG favor the killer. This would only work if a survivor tried to kobe as soon as it get hook to test their luck, which happens ALMOST NEVER. Most of the time survivors try to kobe when their match is lost, in hope to get a hook escape and the continue the match. Sorry, but i can't see this mechanic as a dumb and outdated mechanic, from a time where DBD where a atmospherical asymmetrical horror game, and not a horror themed asymmetrical PvP game.
Balance and fun are not opposite; they really walk together in the long run. The first time when someone is using a busted mechanic can be fun - see the anniversary event - but can lose its fun very fast, as you get used to it. I remember laughing the first day of the anniversary event when a killer zoned me by breaking a pallet using the event ability; and getting very stressed in the last day of the event when killers where no longer midgaming, just zoning using the Invitation's power.
As a community, i think we should step away from this common thread that "Broken stuff is what makes DBD fun" because its very unhealthy in the long run.
To me, most of people which defends broken stuff to stay in game the are people so used to play with those unfair advantages that can't stand a normal match playing without them; their games will be unfun, as their gameplays in crutched in those things. Old Eruption, Old Dead Hard, Old Decisive, the first Mori, old keys, everything broken that this game already had i'm very happy its gone, as you can have a very fun match without them.
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@shogoaluni said:
I always play survivor so therefore I have no idea how it is to play killer so I wanted y'all's perspective on tunneling. If you do tunnel, why do you do it? I am not asking out of saltyness, I'm genuinely curious if it is such a needed game strategy. Do you always tunnel, or is there something a survivor does to influence it? If you do not tunnel, why don't you? What do you do instead of tunneling to still have a productive game? I want to understand what's going on inside killer mains minds so it will help me get less frustrated by getting tunneled out some games. I also want your perspective on this type of stuff since I never play killer, i have no idea how it feels to be on the other side so I don't think it's fair to judge until I get some knowledge from the other end.
Tunneling is a way to ease the pressure during the match, as removing one person makes the assymetrical situation of facing more people than you less opressive. And by tunneling i mean: focusing one person that can be removed from the game early instead of alternating between hooking every survivor.
Tunneling is not always the smart strategy. From a macro point of view, you can "tunnel wrong", killing one person and giving 3 free escapes to the rest of the team. Or even take 4 escapes if they can make the rescue. You just "tunnel" when you are certain that you can generate more pressure than lose while chasing the person. But it still can go wrong and you lose the match because you tried to tunnel.
Anyway, i always give a second chance to a survivor if he/she is in death hook, unless i'm in certain maps - Borgo, Haddonfield - or against certain teams - a full toolboxes squad, a very coordinated team.
If you are getting tunneled too much, try to use Off The Record or Decisive Strike (even nerfed it can make a difference in the match), Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, etc. Also, try to loop in stronger loops and drop pallet with safety. If you make killers take too much time to catch you, they will probably leave.
Don't take too personal: think from a macro perspective - as most of the good killers do - and you will see that taking a player out of the match in the right time is what make the difference between a win and a loss.
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Yeah, because the "New" vaults which gave iframes midjump was very fair.
TBH, the vaults were fine - most of the problem comes from latency - i don't think Behaviour was supposed to nerf or buff them. Hope they revert it back to they it was before Nicolas Cage patch and leave as it is.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527683#Comment_3527683
- "Remove the ability to 4%, its a dumb mechanic"
So many games were saved because a single survivor managed to free themselves from hook
you guys really are anti-fun with DBD
Sorry, but its a very dumb mechanic. It would be the same as the killer having 2% per chance when kicking a gen to remove 50% of its progress. Like, the chance is small, but when it happens, it just spoils all the progress one side have.
I can understand the hatred towards this mechanic, as it can feel very unfair to one side of the game, specially as it can get quite high chance if you have 4 survivors trying 3x to escape from the hook.
DBD can be very fun without these stuff.