Reinami
Reinami
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849789#Comment_3849789
So, ignore the totems to counter Pentimento, but don't ignore Devour. And you can't safely ignore Blood Favor either against killers with gap closers. It's meta in comp for a reason. I feel like this debate is venturing into the usual "completely powerless M1 killer vs perfect survivors" scenario that doesn't actually exist. If it were easy to be good at survivor....we'd have more good survivors.
Its meta in comp because in comp half the good perks are banned.
Also, it is super rare to have pentimento, plaything AND devour. The point is to not cleanse the bad ones. Don't assume devour unless they prove otherwise. The other obvious thing is, just remember where you cleansed stuff. When a hex is cleansed everyone gets a notification of where it is, so just pay attention to that, and if you see pentimento pop up, you know exactly where it is. It ends up taking the killer about as much time to add pentimento as it does for a single survivor to remove it if they just pay attention.
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@vBlossom_ said:
No, Thrill should be reverted back to 10% as it was fine there.
Idk why BHVR added buff, BBQ didn't get any buff after removing bloodpoints incentive and Prove even got Nerf.
Probably because the data showed that nobody took the perk at all to begin with so it clearly needed a buff. What they should do is not nerf thrill, but make totem cleansing regress like invocation instead of completely resetting. That way the killer has to dedicate time to keep you off a totem in order to defend it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849687#Comment_3849687
Why do you need to counter certain hexs?
Because Ruin adds a metric ton of slowdown for a killer who keeps decent pressure, and Devour Hope can close a game out extremely quickly once it gets stacked up. These are hexes that -must- be cleansed.
Again I don't see the issue, it's better this way than how it has been.
It's better for killer only, for the game as a whole, it isn't. Underpowered perks are always categorically less of an issue than overpowered ones, otherwise Invocations would skyrocket to the top of the charts in terms of priority.
As others have said killer can't be everywhere, it's hard enough defending gens alone but defending totems aswell as gens and downing survivors? It's a lot for a killer to juggle
Don't need to defend gens if survivors are stuck on totems.
The only hex worth it is devour. Ruin is horrible. Regression is 1/4th the rate of survivor Progression. Meaning that for ruin to regress an entire gen, it would take 360 seconds, not 90 seconds. The regression you get from ruin is very little. Even if survivors are off the gen for a full minute, they only need to hop back on for 15 seconds to counteract the ruin effect.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Survivors still cleanse my totems ridiculously fast
Thrill of the Hunt takes 45 seconds to cleanse; or half a Generator. Pushing them off the totem removes ALL progress meaning they have to restart the full 45 second process.
This isnt even considering how other perks interact with this, Hex: Face The Darkness forces Survivors to scream every 25 seconds and effectively makes it impossible to cleanse a Hex Totem outside of the Killer's Terror Radius; and on stealth Killers, you can easily remove your Terror Radius and make this a near thing to deal with.Saying "I wish Hex Totems would be meta again" to the Monkey's Paw and the finger curled back… I do want Hex Totems to be meta, this is just not the proper way.
Really it would be fixed if totem cleansing worked like invocation, where if you aren't on the totem it decreases slowly, that way if you only get slightly interrupted, by like a scream it doesn't start it over completely, but if a killer comes and stops you by chasing you away then it regresses further, but requires the killer to actually invest time to keep you off the totem. I feel like that would probably balance this much better. But knowing BHVR they'll just nerf thrill to be useless again making everyone go back to 4 slowdown perks.
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@Inosennatoki said:
Because New killer houndmaster is weak and Shoulder the burden is strong ( Survivor's perk )
Michael myers, dracula and chucky still got nerfed in new update.
All of the gen regression perks get nerf into the ground.
Current Gennerator is so fast.
At the highest level of play, the game is survivor sided. At the lowest level, the game is killer sided. At average levels, its somewhere between, usually dependent on killer, map, what stuff people bring, teammates etc.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849180#Comment_3849180
Well, if we’re going by your logic then I raise you a iri that shaves a mere 10% off one gen and a hatchet that can immediately down survivors from across the map.
A hatchet that requires you to reload every time you miss, that addon is horrible on huntress and you know it.
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@ElderMalaclypse said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434011/p100-is-becoming-a-problem
You took out 3 of the 4 players. What on earth are you complaining about? That's clearly a win. If anything that looks like a swf, and you've shown that the game is not balanced at all and is killer sided, since those add-ons didn't help them escape. And it looks like one of the players brought a map offering so the last player would have a better shot at hatch... Sorry i gotta call pffffft..
Please don't bring in whataboutism, i am discussing a specific topic that has nothing to do with me winning that game. Please stay on topic and do not derail.
If you posted a thread complaining about tunneling but still escaped do you think that would suddenly invalidate every point you made? It is a logical fallacy.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I've played both sides with and against this new hex perk meta and I think it's fine against experienced survivors, even solo queue (which is what I see in most of my killer matches, at least). Hex perks have been a joke for a long time and decent survivors would either ignore them completely or if they couldn't, they would know exactly where to look for the totems (or they would spawn right next to a gen) and hexes were gone within first minute or two. Longer cleansing times make hex builds viable for the first time since original Undying.
One possible idea to make it less oppressive against solo queue would be to scale the cleansing slowdown based on number of SWF together in a party. This has also been proposed for gen repair speeds to help make the playing field more level between solo queue and SWF. But of course, the survivor player population is far greater than the killer player population and everyone screams that you are "PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS" anytime you suggest a possible solution to make the game more fair for everyone. So nothing ever changes and we will forever continue to get things introduced into the game that SWF on comms can easily deal with but makes life miserable for solo queue players.
They should not balance the game differently for SWF or solo. If they want to do that, then they need to make them separate queues.
Really the whole hex perk thing should get entirely reworked as a mechanic and start over.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849155#Comment_3849155
Players earn p100 and it is a slog to get there. They’re entitled to the perma 50 blood web. And iridescent add-ons are more impactful for killers than survivors as they can completely alter killer playstyles, but they’re also fun to face and use. It’s fine that people who pour so much into a character they presumably love have a reason to continue enjoying that characters. Don’t you have a p100 Nurse yourself?
Insta heals aren't impactful, but Pyramid head iris are the best things in the game? Are you playing the same game?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Considering that P100 webs are about the same as the old P3-50 webs, I'm not convinced this is a massive issue. Definitely not more of an issue than it ever has been, if it is one.
Prior to that, i was not seeing iri addons every game, and that was even when BNP was stronger.
Now i see multiple P100s every game, and everyone always bringing the strongest stuff. Maybe this is happening in conjunction with the player base becoming more competitive. Which is pretty clear from the data that scott was pointing out the other day.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849148#Comment_3849148
That's not what that person said.
What does this mean then?
Its not toxic to escape with 4 people, but it is sweaty to slug for the 4k. Nothing to discuss here unless you have no morals. -
@Ayodam said:
You are complaining about p100..?
Are you spiraling? This seems like a cry for help in a way, like when content creators run out of things to make so they make weirdly trivial content
You are missing the point. The point is that there are tons of things in this game that are balanced because they are "rare" i hear it all the time. The "SWF kill squads that bully killers are super rare so its fine" but the point is once someone gets P100, they have permanent level 50 bloodwebs that give iri addons every single time, so they generally can bring one every single match and replace them. Before P100, you might get one iri every few bloodwebs, meaning you can bring them maybe once every 4-5 games.
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@DeBecker said:
- Killer having a 4k or 3k doesnt really make any difference. A survivor surviving or not makes a great difference.
- Its not toxic to escape with 4 people, but it is sweaty to slug for the 4k. Nothing to discuss here unless you have no morals.
- Youre not just asking questions, you try to to make up another "us vs them" with bias.
So you are biased then, because the killer going for the 4 kills is toxic, but the survivors going for the 4 escapes is not. That is pure bias, plain and simple.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848714#Comment_3848714
Even a bad survivor has a nice chase every now and then. Changes like these might impact them less, but will impact them all the same.
Sure, they will but they will be going against killers of the same skill level as them, so it balances out.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848468#Comment_3848468
You’ve posted this before. Balancing around 5% of the player base absolutely hurts the other 95% of players and will not make the game better. BHVR did your exact desire with Death Garden; they geared the game toward the highest potential level of play & overbuffed Hunters as a matter of course. Then people stopped playing the Scavenger role because it felt fruitless as a loss was all but guaranteed. Cutting right to the chase, the game died as a sliver of the player base playing one role (Hunter / Killer) wasn’t really enough to keep the game going. They won’t ever do this again with DbD because they know it’s a game-killing strategy.
You have yet to explain how nerfing killer shack hurts the low level players who aren't using killer shack properly to begin with. It does not hurt them because they can't exploit the power of the shack to its fullest, they are gonna still predrop the pallet all the same.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
46 seconds to cleanse first totem isnt healthy, sorry.
whatabout, just run x logics don't apply here because it's not even ambiguous. that stuff is broken and it's just funny how minor that 4% buff looked in the patchnotes when in reality it nearly doubled the impact of the perk.
14% is probably too much, 12% would be a good middleground to try i think.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847866#Comment_3847866
Funnily enough, I think people with that mindset are very much not misguided in their core idea.
The core idea being a game that balances around 12 hooks.
THAT is what i want. An ideal world where the game is balanced around killers going for hooks and lots of chases instead of kills. A world where camping is not just "discouraged" but literally impossible from a gameplay perspective. A world where tunneling is not just "discouraged" but literally impossible from a gameplay perspective. A game where survivors do more than hold m1 on a gen for 90 seconds, and the game can be a true test of skill on both sides.
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@vladspellbinder said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847617#Comment_3847617
Lets say that the last two Survivors get base-kit Unbreakable, they can each pick themselves up once as soon as two other Survivors are dead. The problem with this is that the Killer slugs the second-to-last knowing they will be able to get up but this still buys them more time to try and find the fourth then if they hooked that Survivor. They then just slug the forth to go and find the third again and now the third won't be able to get back up again once they are found and slugged again while the Killer goes back to hunting down the forth. Again. It's just making more slush time where the Survivors can't really progress the game.
There are very few scenarios where being able to get back up from a slug as second-to-last actually means anything. Maybe if all gens are done and you almost got the gate open but are then slugged I can see it mattering that you can get back up again but that's about it.
The reason I want a bleed-out option and not a base-kit Unbreakable option is to not cheapen Unbreakable itself and because base-kit Unbreakable is a very hard sell for most Killer players and it will very likely get a lot of push-back. It was shot down by the community when the devs tried to float the idea alongside the Finisher Mori. Yes that was for everyone but I don't think a "last two only" would fare much better. With a bleed-out the Killer plays still gets a death but if they need sacrifices, such as for Adept, then they'll have to hook and play Hatch game instead of being able to find and down and hook the fourth then come back for the slug for a Mori or a final hook.
With base-kit Unbreakable more Killers would probably start running Knock Out which, ok, they're using one less gen slowdown but it's still another form of slowdown and isn't all that fun to play against so not something I'd want to see.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847770#Comment_3847770
How often do you play Survivor? Really? How often? Because I play infrequently and I really want there to be no disconnection penalty now that we have the bots, Just allow people to disconnect as they want with no timer lock on their next match, no lost progress on dailies and Archives. Maybe have it so they don't earn any Bloodpoints but allow them to keep everything else.
Why? Because I see so many people killing themselves on first hook because they don't like the map or the Killer or whatever. If they Kobe they either just stand under the hook or run right up to the Killer to get hooked again and if saved do it again. If people can just disconnect if they don't want to play then the ones that do want to play will at least have the bot around and let me tell you, as a Killer main those bots are actually pretty good at looping. You can't mind game them, they don't pre-drop pallets, and their pathing is actually pretty descent. As a Survivor I'd rather have a bot on my team than a dead teammate and because people can't disconnect without a penalty they'd rather die then DC.
Even with DC penalties in play I see people doing it when they're already dying for some reason. Those people I don't understand.
But, yes, I don't believe in punishing people for wanting to leave a match they do not wish to play in.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847779#Comment_3847779
That's a lot of coding. Also, how many pallets are in this "deathmath realm"? Windows? Do the Killer and Survivor start facing each other like most 1v1s? What about Killer powers? Does Plague keep Corrupt Purge if she had it? Does Shape keep his T3 charge? Survivor Perks? Does Hope work? Mettle of Man?
The idea in and of itself isn't a bad idea but it has a lot of issues that need to be worked out and it's a toss up on if it would actually showcase skill or not. Also, honestly, I don't think it is worth the effort it would take to code at this point with The Hatch already in the game. Maybe if this had been done instead of Hatch but we have Hatch and should work with Hatch.
Its not a lot of coding. They already have the special zone existing in the Halloween event. They used to have a different type of zone as well with a different layout. The only thing that needs to be done is create the map, and then add a condition to teleport both sides to the zone when it is time. The hardest part of the work of having a special zone already exists, they just need to stitch the pieces together.
So they could easily create a layout that is a fair 1v1 that lets both sides showcase their skills. Obviously it would require tons of testing and balancing. Maybe we start with 3 pallets, maybe 4, maybe 2. It doesn't really matter, such a thing can easily be tweaked because, in theory, it should be a 50/50 win rate, all they have to do is make it so it disables the killer power and perks, and disables the survivor perks, and makes the killer move at 4.6 m/s no matter who they are. Its a special zone so the survivor and killer can always have the exact same spawn point and the layout can be exactly the same every time. So it is a game of pure skill.
But, it is simple. Create a zone that seems fair, throw it on the PTB, do some tweaks before live, and then monitor. From there, it is simple to take a look at kill rates in that zone, and if they go above 50% then obviously it needs some tuning to maybe add a stronger loop, or increase the pallet count or some other factor. Likewise if it goes the other direction, where they need to remove a pallet or window, or something like that.
This would make it a pure, fair, test of skill on both sides, where if 1 side outplays the other, they get to win.
They could even later repurpose it if they want to create a 1v1 mode, maybe its a setting you can do in customs, so we can create an actual real 1v1 league/tournament.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I can't recall the last time my survivor games have been this miserable. The vast majority of games I've played since Thursday have been over before 2 gens are completed. Players are on second stage or dead before I've even seen the killer or completed a gen.
I'd be less frustrated if I could see what was happening with matchmaking and chalk it up to as string of bad games. But it just feels like I'm completely wasting my time right now.
The snowball effect is happening.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847643#Comment_3847643
Why would you balance a game that isnt competitive around the biggest minority?
Because doing so doesn't hurt the low level players and only makes the game better.
For example, in DBD terms, lets look at a structure like killer shack. Killer shack is one of the strongest structures in the game for survivors. Against a standard m1 killer a good survivor will be able to stand at the various "check spots" that exist at killer shack, to effectively guarantee that they get 3 vaults. You can't mindgame a checkspot if done properly. So they get the 3 vaults, block the window, then either get hit, or drop the pallet. This can waste about 30-45 seconds of a killer's time just to land the hit, or get the pallet drop.
Now mind you, this is against a very good survivor who knows how to abuse the power of killer shack.
Now, what is a relatively newer, lower skill "average" survivor going to do at killer shack? Probably not utilize the check spots, get mind-gamed immediately, and get hit after 5-10 seconds. Or they predrop the pallet which will "Waste it" as people often experience in lower level games.
What happens if you nerf killer shack, to maybe, give it a breakable wall, like the one in dead dog, or shorten the structure so these check spots are far less effective? Well, you made it now much weaker in the hands of that higher level skilled survivor, but the lower level survivor is still going to get hit in 5-10 seconds, or predrop the pallet anyway. So nerfing the structure, did not hurt this low level survivor in any way.
One of my favorite videos talking about balance decisions talks about this for TF2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=3m23sThe logic still applies, the low level player isn't "doing that to begin with" to make the structure powerful, so if you nerf the structure, it doesn't hurt the low level player.
This also can work in the reverse as well. For example, I thought the change from the old old ruin (the one that caused the skill check shenanigans) to the previous version of ruin (with the 200% regression) was actually an amazing change. The old old ruin, hurt the average low skill players the most, and was far too powerful for the average team to go against. It was so bad that people often resorted to "gen tapping" to avoid getting the skill checks so they could power through the gens, or the entire beginning of the game was spent searching for that totem, where, if it wasn't found quickly, the survivors would just lose.
But in high level games, where the survivors can do great skill checks all the time, it didn't really affect them, all it did was slow down the gens slightly because the didn't get the bonuses from landing the great skill checks. Also, they often had good memories of the totem spots of which, at the time, they were much less numerous, making it really easy to see which spawn setups you had on the various maps, and you could usually see ruin cleansed in the first 20-30 seconds of a match in most higher level matches.
This made the perk pretty bad against higher level survivors. But then they changed it to the regression one, which made it so, in lower level games, where killers weren't as skilled and would have a harder time capitalizing on the regression by pressuring the gens (remember the regression only works if the survivors aren't on the gen), the perk would actually be weaker. But, in higher level games, where the killer would be much more experienced at pressuring gens and able to make the regression work better, it was actually a big buff. Effectively this nerfed the perk in low level games, where it was too strong, and buffed it in high level games, where it was too weak.
This is how balance should work, you make decisions, keeping in mind all skill levels, and balance things in such a way that the game is fair at the highest levels, while also keeping in mind things at the lower level that are frustrating to deal with. When something is frustrating at a low level, it is a candidate for something that needs a rework.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848311#Comment_3848311
Well you have been playing this wrong since that time if you think that or just not paying attention ?
Its hard to say in your case, thats a long time to be completely wrong when it comes to what perks are "worth the risk".
Saying "the only hex worth the risk is devour hope" knowing full well (well you should if you play this game as much as you say) that one of weskers/plagues most popular and powerful builds has plaything, ruin has been reworked for several months now which is why its being picked, and then you just ignore NOED I guess for … some reason.
Tells me you just dont know that much.
Blood favor is not worth the risk? Yea I mean you are free to believe that but perma blood favor on its own all game, you win. Theres not enough distance or pallets outside of gideon for survivors to do anything. And its probably not even that bad on gideon as everything is so close together.
I dont really want to engage if you think Penti isnt worth the risk. ButYou need to branch out of whatever perks you are stuck in, as it seems you play a single way maybe and thats why you think the only "hex worth the risk" is devour hope.
Again, its about time efficiency. None of them are ever going to give you time efficiency worth giving up a gen slowdown perk.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848142#Comment_3848142
You must be really new to the game then.
Ruin is used more than it.
NOED is used more than itPlaything is used more than it
Penti is strong…
Blood favor is strong…
You have a long way to go it seems.I'm not one to "flex" but i have been playing since hag release and have 4k hours in this game. Ruin is a horrible perk because base regression is a complete joke, NOED is not a "hex perk" so to speak, Plaything is not really that strong by itself, only with pentimento. Pentimento is hard countered by survivors who just literally pay attention to where hexes are cleansed (and since 99% of the time it is paired with plaything, just don't cleanse the plaything.)
Blood favor is a joke of a perk, you block pallets 32 meters away, but the speed boost the survivor gets from getting hit gives them plenty of distance to get away from the area.
When you look at perks, you need to look at them as "time" how much "time" does this perk buy me. Look at deadlock for example. Deadlock buys you 100 seconds per game of gen defense. In order to get 100 seconds of use out of ruin, it has to regress a single gen for 400 seconds. Obviously each gen it regresses lowers that time, but the reality is that it often isn't even worth the survivor's time to look for it to cleanse. Sure if you run across it spend the time to remove it, but it isn't worth even looking for anymore. Ruin will never give you 100 seconds of pure value that deadlock just GIVES you for free.
Nor can blood favor end a chase fast enough to warrant it.
The only one that can probably do it is pentimento, but you also have to factor in that in order to get pentimento to work, you need to take another hex perk that survivors cleanse, and then you have to go out of your way to go to that spot, and activate it. Likely spending around 15-20 seconds to set it up. And it lowers gen speeds by 30%. If you assume 1 survivor being chased and 2-3 survivors on a gen, it is adding 38 seconds per gen. Which means that survivors would have to ignore it completely and power through 3 full gens before it reaches the same value as deadlock here. Again, a perk that needs no work to get going.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847866#Comment_3847866
The fact that you think there's zero potential for nuance in balancing strategy is misguided at best. That, or, you're deliberately ignoring that fact to try and get one ups in arguments.
There is obviously nuance. But it is always the same people who think that "solo queue needs help" and "average survivor blah blah" who also say "nerf nurse" and "blight hug tech OP" when "Average" level killers are not playing those killers to that level.
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@akaTheBARON said:
I had just a few basic ideas to buff this poor fellow.
1) Starts with more traps… EZ. 4? 6? I mean having 10+ would be too much, but I think at least 4-5 is a no brainer. It's not only his power, but the only thing his power has going for it are traps. spending time to pick them up at random spawns is kind of ass. And I get, the point is to play for the snowball/late game. But still. Starting with more in the beginning would help.
2) Haste when a survivor gets stuck in a trap. A survivor gets trapped across the map, it almost doesn't matter. Cool it takes away a health state, but still. Trapper should have incentive to break a chase if someone across the map gets trapped, and have a realistic shot at getting there. Doesn't have to be 200% haste or anything. Just something extra. "The Trapper gets overcome with adrenaline and rage when he catches his prey" or some ######### like that LOL.
3) speaking of taking a health state, I think an injured survivor should be downed if they escape/get released from a trap.
I really don't think any of these are terribly oppressive. Maybe having injured survivors getting trapped puts them in a dying state maybe a bit much, IDK.
What other ideas have been floated out there? I love the idea of him, but as the game has evolved he's 75% M1 killer.
EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but the fact he can step in/activate his own trap also needs to go. Top of my head, I can't think of any other killer who can be affected by their own power/ability.Now that we have the hound master trail thing. That's what trapper needs. When a survivor is caught in a trap a trail should appear that he can walk on that gives him crazy movement speed when walking toward the trapped survivor.
Clean up the trap spawn RNG
Make it so removing a trap is no longer RNG based. It just always takes a set amount of time. You can keep it so another survivor removing someone's trap is super fast.
Do an add-on pass make a bunch of them half basekit and nerf the add-ons. Long trap removal, faster setting speeds etc.
Make it so trapper can't step on his own traps basekit.
Make the traps work better at pallets and windows. You should never be able to vault "over" a trap at a window.
This would probably go a long way toward making him at least mid tier.
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@vBlossom_ said:
Complains about totems are because in latest patch there was a change that basically turn everything around and made things that were meant to be high risk - high reward into no risk at all - high reward.
Except that hexes have not been high reward for years now. The only hex that is actually worth the risk is devour hope. And even that one takes some time to get going.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847752#Comment_3847752
Is that your only comeback to any point opposed to your? A useless comment that has no barring in the said thread. I'm sure if people look your posts that 1 line maybe 60-70% of all your posts.
Its a simple argument that nobody has been able to refute yet. You cannot hold the simultaneous belief that the game should be balanced around average level players, but also think that nurse also needs nerfs. If you do, you are biased and misguided.
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@Emeal said:
Totally agree, despite the Hatch as an escape being part of the problem, its not necessarily the reason or part of the solution.
There really is not need for a fancy solution to this problem, just a simple new mechanic.
- When only one Survivor other survivor is alive and you are downed, wait 30 seconds to speed bleed out and die.
Either way the random nature of the Hatch spawns will decide, its unacceptable to let the downed survivor be slugged for too long.
Its a question about moving the game along in a reasonable time for all individuals, its why I down and hook people usually right away, because I know how mentally not stimulating it is to be slugged for 240sec. Its a really negative experience, so can we please not?
The problem is the hatch mechanic itself. In order to secure the 4k without slugging the killer has to:
- Already "Win the match" by not having the survivors escape
- Find the hatch before the survivor
- Find the survivor before they can open the gate.
The killer has to "win" 3 times to get the 4k, whereas the 4th survivor only has to "win" once.
A BETTER mechanic that would showcase the skill on both sides, would be that, once the 3rd survivor dies on the hook, both the killer and the final survivor are teleported to a special zone, similar to ones they have done for the halloween event. This zone is the same layout every single time. The goal is the survivor needs to "survive" for some amount of time, lets say 1 minute. If they last for 1 minute, then they get to escape. If they get downed by the killer, then the killer automatically goes into the match ending mori.
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@vladspellbinder said:
I'm am so very tired of being left to bleed out on the ground while the Killer slugs the whole team or if it's just me and one other person. I just wish I could "bleed out" while left on the ground that way at least the other Survivor would have the chance to get Hatch or and I can move on to the next game.
We shouldn't be giving more ways for survivors to give up. We should be eliminating ways for survivors to do that and punishing them for doing so.
THEN, we need to stop punishing killers for hooking survivors, and start encouraging them to go for hooks, rather than for kills.
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@Gplays2000 said:
or maybe it is for people who are no longer willing to deal with the nonsense of the main game? Every killer running gen regression perks, camping tunneling and slugging. The FUN aspect no longer exists in normal dbd. It is just about efficiency and getting things done as quick as possible. That is not the case in 2v8. Killers always have something to do/chases hooks and so do survivors. It is more interactive and actually fun but I guess you do you mr competitive player lmao.
Would be nice if the game was balanced in such a way that those perks are built into the basekit regression in some way, and the perks didn't exist, and the killer was punished for tunneling and rewarded for spreading hooks and better yet, tunneling just wasn't possible, and the game was balanced around lots of chases and hooks instead of kills.
Imagine such a world…
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847643#Comment_3847643
This is the fastest way to kill a game. WoW had that mentality in shadowlands and that xpac nearly killed the game.
Do you think nurse needs a nerf?
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@Boons123 said:
It's Invocation: Treacherous Crows!!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B1KRN8CQ5KB2/img-8015.png
There is no doubt that this perk was designed by killers main ! I can smell it!
I'm surprised this perk hasn't received any changes at all, it's so weak , 60 seconds of doing nothing, injured and broken for the rest of the trial and all just to reveals the killer's aura to all the survivors for 2 pathetic seconds.
Oh I forgot, one of the survivors must be within the terror radius and the killer must scare a crow in order to reveal the killer's aura.
If you want to reveals the killer's aura, there are much better alternatives, some of which don't require doing anything, Sometimes, if survivors see your aura and the killer is chasing you, this is free information for everyone.
SWF can relay information about the whereabouts of the killers if they communicate without even needing aura Perks.
Personally, I find value in any perks and avoid using meta perks because it are pretty much a crutc, however this particular perk didn't really grab my attention. On the contrary, this perk was designed not to be used. This perk has a huge amount of flaws for one pathetic benefit.
The only thing that might stand out about this perk is that it reveals the killer aura to all survivors, but even with that just use Kindred.
The concept of perk was nice but it was ruined by flaws and we will have to wait 2 years to receive these perk buffs.
This is really sad, no one wants a completely dead perk.
IDK why you are surprised, both sides have about 8 good perks each to work with and every other perk is trash.
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@Lixadonna said:
Because Killer is the Power Role and Killers can grant mercy. It wouldn't make sense for Survivors to give themselves up and be the merciful one. Would you even accept a Survivor pity kill?
Also you get all those pity kills at the start of the match, not the end.
SWF is the power role, that much is certain. Unless you think the power role is the one who can get abused by a coordinated team somehow.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847614#Comment_3847614
If that were the case, why did almost every player unanimously agree that Eruption needed nerfed? SWF could counter it, does that mean that 20 seconds of being unable to do ANYTHING as survivor was fair?
Because you should always balance the game around what the best players are capable of, not the average player.
Do you think nurse needs a nerf too?
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@OmegaXII said:
What do you think? Since it severely delays Killer's Objective, how about delaying Survivors' too? I think it'll make this perk a lot more healthier.
This doesn't really work, all it does is encourage the killer to tunnel the person who was just unhooked.
Lets say it gives, IDK a 50% repair speed penalty. Why would i chase the guy who is going to repair gens slower, and not the guy who was just unhooked, injured and so on? Seems a bit counter intuitive.
What they need to stop doing is putting in perk bandaid fixes to counter tunneling and just make tunneling impossible from a gameplay perspective. Make survivors share hooks, give some kind of immunity/timeout to survivors who get unhooked. Then balance the game around killers going for hooks instead of kills. The game would be so much more fun for everyone if they did that.
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@HolyCowMilk said:
I have a few questions for you to start the ball rolling.
What do you like about the Houndmaster? It could be anything from clothes, to her pet dog named Snug, her weapon, anything.
What could be improved? E.g. power, bugfixes, etc.
Is there anything else you would like to share?
What i have noticed is that a lot of survivors i'm going against are playing ALOT more toxic than they do with any other killer i play. Looking at the roster of killers we have, i wonder what makes this killer different than others that would make people play far more toxic and be rude in the end game chat more than any other killer i play. She doesn't seem that strong and her playstyle doesn't seem to be unfun like some of the other killers we have had.
Although, i haven't had the chance to go against her, most of the people i see when i'm playing as survivor right now are the other killers that got changes this patch. Is she super unfun to go against?
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
Here is a question. I was just in a match with her and of course I was body blocked for the exit but as soon as she entered she got her dog on me and I couldn't leave. Understandable I couldn't leave with the dog but after I was free of the dog I still couldn't leave it was blocked. Why?
Its intentional, a few killers have this. Because if it wasn't there, then after you get hit, you just leave. So, when that happens on these killers, the gates get blocked for you for a few seconds, i wanna say its like 4-5 seconds. That way you can't get out. This is part of the design of their powers.
If you would Just Leave™ instead of teabagging the gates, you'd have a lot less problems with this kind of thing.
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@Autharia said:
I think they moved from the mostly killer sided forums to the completely killer sided Reddit for feedback.
Reddit is massively survivor sided. If i post anything even remotely about killers having a rough time it gets downvoted to oblivion.
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@LordGlint said:
Everyone knew it was gonna get nerfed before it hit live servers, the only question was by how much. I still think she's gonna see some usage, it's just this addon isn't going to have people make builds around it.
Which is sad. 40% was obviously too much, but why SHOULDN'T killers have addons that people can make builds around? If anything every addon should be strong enough to justify creating a build around and would create more unique strategies for each killer. Instead every kill always takes the "strongest" 2 addons every game and the same 6-8 perks and every game is the same.
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845184#Comment_3845184
How? Not quite right? What are you talking about? Of course that's right. There are other factors that play a role. Honestly, the only reason you wrote this post is because you're frustrated about it, otherwise you wouldn't write things like that last sentence. What do you expect? That you will always play against equally good opponents? That won't be the case. The SBMM will test you and rank you accordingly. Whether you think it will work or not is irrelevant.
As i said about it has been proven and even stated that MMR has a cap for matchmaking purposes. Lets say the cap is 1700 MMR, like it was proven to be at one point (again, i'm unsure what the cap is today). And lets say that MMR in DBD is equivalent to how chess elo is in terms of the spread (because it probably is, in the vast vast majority of games MMR is just a slight derivative of elo and behaves almost exactly the same way, usually the difference is just in the gains and losses, but the scale is the same).
In chess, a Grandmaster (typically the top 500 or so players in the world) is 2800 elo. And someone with 1700 elo, is not titled, and probably a good, but casual chess player (personally, i have played chess for many many years, and my highest rating is 1680).
So, if you queue up for matchmaking, and your MMR is say, 1200, no problem, all the people you play with will probably be around 1200, maybe some will be 1225, some might be 1250, some might be 1150, but in general you will all be within probably 5-10 wins/losses of mmr gain from each other.
But, lets say your MMR is 2000. You are a pretty good player, not the best in the world, but definitely what we would call "High MMR". Because MMR has a cap of 1700, it dumps you into the same pool as players who are, 1700, and also players who are 2800. This is why when you hit the "high mmr" cap, it feels like you can have one game where your teammates have no idea what they are doing, and then the next game, they are gods. The way MMR and elo works, is effectively based on a mathematical equation that calculates the probability that you will win a game based on everyone's MMR. Then, based on that probability, you gain or lose points based on the outcome of the match and that probability (I.E. if you win a game you have a high probability of losing, then you will gain a ton of points, but if you lose a game you have a high probability of losing, you will only lose a few points).
If you punch these probabilities into a calculator for say, the 1200 mmr player, maybe they are a killer, and they get matched like this:
- 1200 mmr killer
- 1200 mmr survivor
- 1159 mmr survivor
- 1226 mmr survivor
- 1205 mmr survivor
And punch this into an elo probability calculator, taking the average mmr of the survivors of 1198 (rounded up):
The probability that the killer wins the game is about 50.279%. Pretty even fair game.
Now lets take a match where maybe, the killer is 1800, and they get mathed with:
- 2800 survivor
- 2700 survivor
- 2780 survivor
- 2650 survivor
- 1800 killer
The average MMR of that team is 2733 (rounded up). Now punch that into the calculator, and you see the probability of the killer winning the match would be 0.05%.
Because the cap of MMR (for matchmaking purposes) in DBD is so low, so they can match people quickly, this means that the typical "good, but not great" player who is above that cap will have WILDLY different matches from game to game. Where they play against a SWF kill squad as the killer one game, and then the next they feel like they are playing against "babies" or why you play solo queue and some matches feel like the survivors don't know what a generator is, and other matches they lock it in and the killer gets 1 hook.
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/433131/1500-paired-against-10500
How come I (1500h) go up against a survivor with 10500 hours?
The answer is simple. If you have a hidden MMR of 2000 and so does your opponent, then you will meet. There are differences. The duration of the game doesn't matter. It only reflects experience.
Not entirely true, read my post above.
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@PinheadGlazer said:
How come I (1500h) go up against a survivor with 10500 hours? Not only that… He is the "23rd best surv in the world" according to the statistics and the best Ace in the world apparently. I actually am so blown away by how BHVR's sbmm system works… This is unbelievable. And of course i get pooped on since he's spent his childhood playing the game…
Skill Based Matchmaking in DBD has a cap.
It used to be 1700 a while back, might not be the same.. If we compare it to chess ratings and say you have like 1800 (pretty decent level for a non-professional player) You could be matched with someone who is near your rank, or someone who is 2800 (a chess grandmaster level)
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844151#Comment_3844151
Using idle crows to punish people is a terrible idea as long as killer can slug survivors for longer than 90 seconds (the time it takes for 3 idle crows to appear). Unless BHVR is going to give survivors basekit Unbreakable to prevent this or just remove slugging entirely idle crows should never be the deciding factor in whether a survivor is given a DC penalty.
Killers constantly complain about survivors moving around when slugged because they "can't find the survivor where they left them" so now you're leaving survivors in a lose/lose situation of wasting time not playing the game when slugged. Either the survivor moves to avoid DC penalty from idle crows and killers use that as an excuse why they "had" to bleed out the survivor wasting 4 minutes of the survivors time OR the survivor stays in the spot the killer downed them so the killer can easily find/hook them but they end up with idle crows after 90 seconds and they get hit with a penalty of 5+ minutes. Either way the survivor is not able to actually play the game for an extended period of time.
Killers have already increased slugging thanks to YouTube videos that have encouraged them saying this is the best way to play killer, they don't need more encouragement by knowing they also have the ability to force players into a DC penalty from idle crows.
It was an example, i'm saying they already have a detection system, so it is possible to detect AFKs. They could obviously add a system on top of that that detects the circumstances of the crows before it being valid for a punishment.
But turning this into a "whataboutism" is a fallacy. We are talking about punishing people for griefing.
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@Phantom_ said:
That will do nothing. Someone who wants out of the game that bad will just either AFK or run to the killer, and get hooked again. Removing it will solve nothing in that regard and it will rendder several perks and offerings that are related to it useless.
And everytime someone says this, i respond with the simple. Easy fix, you BAN THEM. Every single other online multiplayer game has the capability to detect people who do things like "intentional feed" "afk" "give up" "grief" etc. So why is that so difficult to do here? They already have afk detection with crows. If someone gets 3 crows in a match, you flag them as AFK and punish them for it just like they do with leaving games.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843779#Comment_3843779
Going "back" to patrolling gens sounds like you were doing that to begin with, which you shouldn't be.
Part of the decision making surrounding dropping chase is if you have another chase you can get into quickly. If you're dropping a chase that'd only take longer than you'd like and you're instead wandering around generators without achieving anything for the same amount of time, you're in a worse position than if you just took the chase. At least at the end of the chase you've used up resources and gained a hook- patrolling generators gives you nothing.
As I said in the post, patrolling generators is a last resort for when you don't have anything else, and I think killer players as a whole need to understand that avoiding that last resort is part of getting better at killer. Knowing where survivors are likely to be based on prior information and game sense is something that separates bad killers from great ones— and I'm not even saying I can do that wholly without perks, but I know that it's something I could and probably should improve if I want to get better.
"Patrolling" is probably a misnomer. The point is, you should be going from chase to chase. But those chases should ideally start at a generator, not near killer shack, or an area of the map where survivors have completed generators.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
Good grief this soooooo has be fixed. The game claims that it matches to a players skill level, yet there's no way that's true. I'm not very good, haven't been playing long, yet every single match I play as a killer I get tournament level bullie squads that are close to or are 100.
When I play as a survivor, I get tied to players that rage quit, don't do gens, hide, killed off in seconds against killers that are super prestiged if also not 100. This is GARBAGE AND IS NOT FUN AT ALL.
I think the problem with MMR is 3-fold.
- Firstly, the game has so much RNG factored in that MMR itself is pretty meaningless. You can have a game go poorly simply due to map generation giving you less or more resources, making the skill factor significantly less impactful.
- Second, I have a strong belief that killer MMRs are massively inflated, and survivor MMRs are massively deflated. This results in killers getting more "SWF kill squad" games than they normally would, and for decent level survivors being matched with bad teammates one game and great teammates the next. The reason for this is because of the MASSIVE epidemic of survivors just "giving up" immediately. There is no punishment for doing so, you don't lose rank, you don't lose anything except for this hidden MMR number that nobody can see or even knows what it is doing. So why not just ######### on hook, and move on to the next if you see something you don't like. Well, this causes your MMR to go down, and your teammates to become worse over time.
- Thirdly, the fact that it isn't tied to your "rank" in any meaningful way makes it pointless.
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@fixblitzskin said:
Every time survivors put a map offering you know its going to be a bad time. Its quite obvious who is going to win the match because all it does is rig the game. Its just a bad omen. I suggest making sacrificial ward into a common like pudding or remove them. Late night is gets so bad I had survivors send me to Midwich to sabo, Ormond to also sabo and 3 balanced landings on eryie. I used a ward to negate a badham offering and all this was in one play session. Queue times for killer is longer rn even for 1v4 so im waiting longer games to get destroyed and bagged.
Map offerings are great when you are killer and a survivor uses them. Never forget Otz's law of map offerings. The survivor who uses the map offering, will immediately DC as soon as you down them.
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@jesterkind said:
I said earlier in another thread this is something that should be talked about more on the forums, so I figured a post about it would be appropriate. This is also something of a mini-essay on effectively spreading pressure, since the two concepts are pretty heavily linked.
So then. There is a tooltip in this game, shown in the loading screens, that I think does incalculable damage to people's ability to play killer effectively if they follow it too blindly: "Patrolling generators is a great way to find survivors". There are people who seem to think that patrolling generators, therefore, is part of their core gameplay loop and part of how to play killer on a basic level; this also plays into people's misconception that generators are the killer's objective and stalling them is also therefore an important part of the core loop.
Neither of these things are true. Generators aren't the objective, and patrolling them is a good way to lose in a huge number of circumstances.
The reason I believe it's a really bad idea to patrol generators is simply that it's way too much downtime. The most important thing to be doing as killer at any given moment is generating pressure - that is to say, doing things that force survivors to react to you in ways that slow down the overall generator speed. You shouldn't be patrolling generators because you should be in chase, or where applicable, setting up a power. If you've just gotten a hook, you should be capitalising on that opportunity by going directly to a chase, and if you have to patrol generators to do it, you're just leaving tons of potential pressure laying there, unspent and unclaimed… which leaves the survivors who would be getting pressured free to do whatever they want, which, if they're smart, is gonna be generator repair.
If, instead, you bring one or two info perks so you know at least where survivors were a short while ago, you can get into that important next chase much more quickly, and start the ideal efficiency loop - one in chase, one on hook, one peeling away to save.
Combine that with some good chase knowledge to finish the chase in a timely manner, and you're well on your way to snowballing a victory. You're giving all of that up by focusing on generators at all, frankly.
I'm not saying to never kick/damage generators, mind, but they're not a core objective of yours. It doesn't actually matter if those generators get done, if you kill all the survivors by the end. They're just a timer you can delay a little, not the main focus of your efforts. For the same reasons, patrolling generators is just a last-ditch attempt at finding survivors if you have no other information to work from, and you kinda want to avoid that when you can.
If you start a chase with a survivor hit them, and they immediately run to a loop that contains killer shack into jungle gym into main building and its away from where someone is that you just hooked and away from generators, you are wasting your time and should go back to patrolling generators.
The reason most killers lose games is not because they are patrolling gens, but because they are wasting too much time in chases. The first thing you should be doing as soon as you load into the map is identifying where the strong loops are (usually near main buildings and killer shacks) and then trying to chase survivors away from those areas, and not to them.
I mostly agree about kicking gens. Generally you should really only kick gens if you have perks that are making that useful like Pop/Nowhere to Hide/Unforeseen etc.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Title.
If I'm playing Freddy, Myers, Ghostface, or Trapper, why wouldn't I always hold R2 (on Playstation) for more distance as opposed to just tap the button for a shorter swing ?
Is there any downside to attempting a lunge attack versus a basic one?
I personally always use the lunge because the regular feels weird and I don't know what the downside is, if any.
Am I missing something?
Yes there is.
Basically, when you PRESS m1 instead of lunging, you immediately attack on the next frame. So if you are right under a pallet and the survivor is going to drop it, "pressing" m1, will often let you hit them.
The way lunges work, is you lunge for 0.9 seconds THEN you attack. So if you are lunging through a pallet, your attack won't actually come out for 0.9 seconds making a pallet stun easier.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842773#Comment_3842773
no one cares about comp
And this is where it begins.
I'm not saying to care about comp, i'm saying that the people who are as good as those who play comp show that this game has significant balance issues at the top level.
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@Autharia said:
25 seconds after a kick is enough to reset 70-80% of a gen in 2v8.
That's not how regression works.
Regression works as 0.25 charges per second base. Survivors add 1 charge per second. Meaning to regress a gen 80% which has 72 charges on it. It would take 288 seconds. In 2v8. Regression is at 300% base which still makes it take 96 seconds. Nowhere near "25 seconds"