Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822646#Comment_3822646
I think that this is the most tonedeaf answer to the problem, because its ignoring and turning away from the underlying problem and reason why 1) killers slug and 2) its more effective then hooking.
Over time Killers options got fewer and fewer, eith many playstyles becoming obsolete and umviable. While the elimination of undesirable playstyles is a good thing on the surface level, it also leads to frustration and the feeling of loss and being forced down one specific way.
While I am not defending the full on slug build, the community is very fast with issuing nerfs, bans or basekit solutions for everything. But every basekit option dilutes the perk variety and cements the meta further.
I think that we should either sweeten the deal for killers or work a way out to incentivice then down the more desirable actions. Let's Make Hooking Great Again.
Its almost as if the game would be much more fun for both sides if the game was balanced around hooks instead of kills. But people keep saying that tru3ta1ent doesn't know what he is talking about…
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@Langweilig said:
Recently the devs asked, what our opinions of reverting him are and the only real complaint was “We want 4.6m/s, 4.4m/s is too weak/slow”. Most people agreed and like, that his power would get reverted.
I personally think 4.4 is fine, but his main event should not require 30knives, it should be 18-22knives.
Trying this might open up, having more killers with different movement-speeds, which I find a cool and interesting concept.
The problem with trickster, is they are trying to make it so he plays "more fair" in the sense that, survivors feel good about dodging hits. But the problem is that it is antithetical to his design. Huntress and deathslinger are 1-shot killers. You dodge the hit, and you feel immediately good because if one of them hits you, you are gonna lose a health state (most of the time in deathslingers case).
But trickster, by design, is not a 1-shot killer. He needs multiple hits to get a health state. Which is why dodging knives doesn't feel good. Because you dodge one, but you still have 3 more coming at you. But, if you didn't then the trickster would never get health states, because he has to land so many knives.
What they need to do is 1 of 2 things.
- Accept the fact that they designed trickster to be a killer you have to land multiple hits with, and that dodging a single knife isn't going to "feel good"
- This is what they need to do and accept it, because its a lot of work to redo the killer again
- Redesign the killer completely to be about landing a single hit, or several hits in a row
- This is not what they should do, because we already have 2 killers that fill this role. But maybe they could make him about hitting multiple hits in a row and still keep somewhat of an identity. But doing so just makes him a rough killer to play for newer players, but good players will make him "too good" Because in order to punish not landing multiple hits you'd have to REALLY make landing multiple hits be good.
- Accept the fact that they designed trickster to be a killer you have to land multiple hits with, and that dodging a single knife isn't going to "feel good"
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@Autharia said:
Cause Bad killers cant 4k on hooks and cry about SWFs.
If it is only bad killers doing it, then surely you should be able to win against them since they are bad.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819580#Comment_3819580
Or overwatch. Or rainbow six. Both these games have insane penalty up to a season and full on perm bans if you just afk or grief.
The answer i always get when i ask the question is.
"because DBD is asymmetrical"
But nobody has ever been able to answer me, what about asymmetrical games is so special that this basic idea doesn't work?
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@dwight444 said:
when they fix the fundamental issues that drag the fun out of the game
or you could just ironically feel entitled yourself that your teammate needs to stay in the game with you even though someone else threw way before they decided to go next. That works too
Why is it that games like DotA can force people to play out a match even if it isn't "fun" because their teammates are bad, and those games can last over an hour, but someone who plays DBD feels entitled enough that they can't sit through 8 minutes of not having fun in those scenarios?
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@IAmGilgamesh said:
They just removed another breakable wall and it's the small square house in Springwood. I also noticed they removed the aura of breakable walls from Zanshin Tactics.
Are you going to discontinue the breakable walls concept?
Breakable walls, when they are at their best, function as a predropped pallet. This is "mostly" fine, but its just uninteresting.
At their worst, they create situations where, the killer never wants to break this wall, because breaking it is bad.
They are mostly a knowledge check more than anything else, some walls are break on sight, some you should never break, and you have to know which ones they are with time. They honestly should just go.
If they were some obstruction that existed that survivors had to spend a little time building up, and every wall was designed to be one the killers wanted to break, they would function much better. If anything i would make them breakable "doors" that only survivors can walk through, but that survivors had to spend time "building up" in order to use them. That way they function as a structure that survivors had to plan around using, rather than just "finding" a pallet or window, basically being a much stronger pallet/window, but one that has a setup time. Which would create more interesting gameplay IMO.
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@justadreampallet said:
I’ll start
Gens are fun to be on, it makes the game a bit scary when you don’t know where the killer is. It makes the game better and gives it pacing.
Stealth isn’t a bad play style, I take stealth and run a support build while others take chase, I sit back and heal, do gens and when I get them, boon totems. I’m there to help the others and I will take chase when the team needs it.
Both sides are fair, well mostly. I play at a lower level but I still think it’s relatively fair, all killers have the opportunity to get a 4k and all survivors have the chance to escape, however I understand the anti hook teams are unfair to killer and gen regress blight is unfair to survivors but for the most part it’s alright
You don’t need meta perks to have a good build, as long as you have a style that works for you it’s the best one.
Slinger is one of the best killers, he has the ability to pull survivors toward his, they escape they go to deep wound they get hit they take damage either way, and he can shoot through small holes, he isn’t as good as blight or nurse but he’s better then people give him credit for.
Jeff is the best survivor (he’s hot)According to this community for some reason?
The game would be more fun if it was balanced around hooks instead of kills, for both killers and survivors. Killers wouldn't camp/tunnel, and survivors would get more time in the game, and the killer wouldn't feel pressured to camp/tunnel because the game would be balanced around not doing those things, and, ideally, those things would be fundamentally not possible from a design perspective.
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@BlightedTrapper said:
You realize the perk is arguably stronger now, especially paired with Pain Res? The change is basically just to prevent the Artist from constantly keeping every survivor off of gens.
Kinda this TBH,
It brought back my patented, Pain res + DMS + Thrilling Tremors + whatever, build.
- You pick up a survivor, and thrilling tremors procs, if any gens are unblocked, pain res only hits the unblocked gens, slowing progress, and blocking with DMS
- If survivors get wise to DMS, you still know which gen or 2 to go to right after the hook by process of elimination
- If survivors get wise to thrilling and/or all gens are blocked, you have just barely enough time to wait out the thrilling, hook the survivor, and still proc the pain res and DMS. And you can throw on BBQ if you want so if they wise up to everything you STILL know what gen to go to.
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@Paternalpark said:
Bloodlust is a bandaid fix to infinites.
Now that those don't exist, they can remove the bandaid. Wound healed.
Not while garden of joy main building still exists, and many others.
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@SoGo said:
Base regression shouldn't change.
The perks themselves? Absolutely.
Call of Brine, Overcharge and Hex: Ruin should all have the 200% regression speed. Ofc, to not repeat the Overbrine meta, both of them should have a condition that the regression speed cannot exceed 200%.
Base regression absolutely should change, then they can nerf or completely rework tons of the gen defense perks.
They should do to the perks what they do to killer addons. Buff the basekit, and nerf the perks.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810221#Comment_3810221
what can they do to stop it though? Killers already have an inbuilt counter where the more they put you down and pick you up the quicker you can wriggle off. It becomes automatic at one point. But, all you could really do is move survivors out of the exit area if they spend too much time stood in it, or remove the exit area all together but then they’ll just wait close to it and do the same thing.
Simple change:
- If all survivors are inside the exit gate, the EGC happens 4x faster.
- If you are injured by a killer while near the exit gate, the exit gate becomes blocked for 5 seconds.
This means that all 4 can stand there at most 30 seconds. And if they die to it because they all stood around there instead of literally "just leaving" then that is their own fault. If they stand outside the gate to teabag, they give the killer a chance to hit them and land a kill because they won't "just leave"
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@k3ijus said:
Honestly one of my favorite horror killers but im suprised hes not added yet, but if he ever was i could imagine him working similiar to myers but less stalking oriented and more aggressive, and his perks would probably support endgame or late game
The thing i've seen kicked around would be that he would have different weapons around the trial that he could switch to. So his m1 attack is effectively his power, and they do different things.
Then he has some kind of teleport thing like in the movies where he just kinda "pops" up out of nowhere.
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@solarjin1 said:
Behavior release statistics showing the average chase time not to long ago.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/420795/new-stats-july-2024
And still somehow people want killers to go for 12 hooks. How are you supposed to go for 12 hooks when the first 8 are going to take 8 minutes. And that doesn't even factor in the time it takes to start those chases.
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@CBT137 said:
opinions on this? seems strange to me that a killer like chucky is 110% while blight is 115%
@Sngfun said:
Not every loop can be played by his rush alone, he needs to setup with his normal speed.
Also chucky has survivor's hitbox, so he doesnt count as a 4.4
This.
Now that hug tech is no longer a thing, there are many loops where his power is literally unusable. If he was 4.4 he would suffer more.
Chucky is a 4.4 yes, but he has the same hitbox as a survivor, which means in loops, he actually is looping faster than a 4.6 killer does due to being able to hug the wall better. So the 4.4 there is mostly there for the map traversal.
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@Wibwob said:
I see a lot of people discussing which killers they hate seeing, so what about the ones you do like? Which are you excited to see in your game?
Personal favourites for me are Oni, Pyramid Head and Unknown. Oni is genuinely terrifying (and outlasting his power feels great when it happens), and the latter two are just fun to dodge/evade. Good chase themes too.You shouldn't ask this question so openly, you'll start to realize that people only like going against the killers that are bad that they can bully.
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This entire thing is stupid, because it is literally based on a community vote. If you aren't happy with the results you only have yourselves to blame.
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@Valuetown said:
Hens just released a video of his "best builds" for every killer. After sorting through the data, this is what I found:
- Corrupt is present in 72.22% of builds
- Pain Res is present in 61.11% of builds
- Grim Embrace is present in 55.56% of builds
- Ruin is present in 38.89% of builds
- Undying is present in 27.78% of builds
- Pentimento is present in 19.44% of builds
- Sloppy Butcher is present in 13.89% of builds
- BBQ, Rapid, and Blood Favor are all present in 11.11% of builds
- The other 14 perks found were individually used less than 9% of the time
A total of 24 perks of the 124 total killer perks available were used. This is 19.35% of the total available killer perks that are being utilized for a competitive chance at winning.
Of the killers to buy for a new player:
- Artist has a 100% return on investment, with all 3 of her perks being extremely meta
- Blight has a 66.66% return on investment, with only 2 of his perks being meta
- Both Hag and Plague have a 33.33% return on investment, with only 1 of each of their perks being meta (totem builds specifically)
The question of the decade is: why?
Why is the current state of the game allowed to exist like this? People act as if they don't know why the general feeling of the game is at an all time low for survivors, well here is the data. Survivors can barely finish a single generator before the killer snowball starts, meaning all gen progression is halted. Most of the time, killers win with at least 3 gens remaining.I understand the need for gen regression, but this is way too much. The arbitrary 60% kill rate target across the board needs to be adjusted, or the base game mechanics of this game need to be overhauled. Introduce a secondary objective as an alternative win condition for both sides (not hatch). Make chases more interactive, giving agency to both survivor and killer. Give each map interactable elements unique to that specific realm that either act as a win condition or will help whichever side spent time interacting with said elements. ANYTHING so we can get away from this stale and boring gen slowdown meta. If all those options are off the table, corrupt and pain res both need significant nerfs.
What are the community's thoughts on this?
If you look at my post history you'll see that i have constantly said this is a horrible state for the game to be in.
The game is literally balanced around the idea that killers bring gen defense, and survivors bring anti-tunnel and anti-camp. But, if you look at the history of changes the past year, you'll see that survivors are constantly getting anti-tunnel and anti-camp basekit now. So they don't even need to bring those perks anymore. But killers are still stuck bringing gen slowdown in order to compete.
I ask why?
What needs to be done with all of these perks is to do what they do with killer addons when something is deemed to be "required". They have done it almost every patch now to at least one killer the past year. They need to nerf the perks, and buff the basekit.
Nerf all of the gen defense perks to be half, or even less as effective as they are now, or even just completely rework a bunch of them. Then…
- Buff basekit gen kick to 10%
- Buff basekit regression to 200%
- Basekit corrupt that lasts 30 seconds
- Basekit corrupt on totems that lasts 30 seconds
- Do SOMETHING to deal with the fact that killers often lose 3 gens in the first chase just by pure mathematics
- Survivors can literally just shift+w to a god pallet like shack, predrop it, then run to the opposite end/corner of the map, and by the time the killer catches up, and hits them twice, picks them up, and hooks them, it'll have been about 2 minutes, plenty of time for the other survivors to finish 3 gens. This is ridiculous.
- Create an incentive to not tunnel by REWARDING killers for spreading hooks
- Idea i have had for a while is to make it so after a survivor is unhooked for 30-45 seconds they repair gens 50% slower. Means that if a survivor immediately hops on a gen, they are gonna be slow, but if they properly go and run to safety, and heal, by the time they get to a gen, the timer is off.
- Or simply a basekit pain res type effect.
Once you do this, you can start having killers actually bring cool and unique builds that differ based on the killer they are playing or the playstyle of the player.
The main problem with the game is not "gen speed" it is the gen speed to chase time ratio. The game is balanced around the idea that a chase lasts 45 seconds for both hits. That has been stated by the devs in the past. But do the math now on those 45 second chases. And lets assume it takes 15 seconds between each chase to start. How much time actually passes if the killer spreads hooks and goes for a 12 hook game?
- 1st chase: 3 survivors x 45 seconds + 3 second pickup animation + 10 seconds to walk to hook + 1.5 second hook animation + 15 seconds till next chase
- 2-9 chase: 1 survivor x 45 seconds + 3 second pickup animation + 10 seconds to walk to hook + 1.5 second hook animation
That's just 8 hooks before anyone can get killed, assuming it takes survivors 45 seconds to unhook and heal (which is definitely not the case) but this is assuming everything is very in favor of the killer, but still timed for what chases are balanced on. This totals out to 760.5 seconds survivors can be on the gens. How long do they need to do gens? 450 seconds. So They have a full 210.5 seconds to run around and find other gens to do, do chests, totems, open the gates, etc.
So even in the state that the devs balance the game around 45 second chase, if chases actually lasted that long, survivors would do all the gens and escape before the killer can actually land a kill if the killer played "fair". This is not healthy, and i don't mean that for killers, i mean it for SURVIVORS. It is not healthy gameplay for the killer to be FORCED to play in a "mean/unfun" way for you, in order for them to not lose the game.
The problem is the gen to chase time RATIO not the speed of gens. If gens only took 45 seconds, but a chase lasted 1 second, that could still be a world that was balanced if the ratios worked out (not saying they would, just making the point)
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@mizark3 said:
Sadly it isn't. The only positive side is that if they (the exact same Killer,) do(es) it multiple times against you in a row, it can qualify as targeted repeatedly (see picture).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZVDTF07H6MRX/targetedrepeatedly.png
That is how bizarre the game rules are. You are actually better off being bledout twice in a row, because now you have a case for targeted 'harassment'.
Targeting implies intent. If matchmaking just randomly gives you a person whose strategy is to slug every game its not "targeted"
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At this point they should start offering refunds to people who purchased her.
Yes i know "live service game blah blah"
There is something different at work here. They actively are intentionally nerfing the killer such that she is unplayable until they rework her. That is different then just "we tuned her". And, they literally admitted to doing that purposefully on stream.
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@CursedPerson said:
B and D are data outliers and would be bias, A and C are normal gameplay but are not bias. Again with the disingenuousness. The goal he is to get rid of the most annoying and unforgiving aspects that effect a large portion of the player base. You're using the fallacy that win rate = the best killer in the game but thats not what this discussion is about. You are purposely moving the goalposts here.
We don't disagree on that, but the point is that this killer is simply not that good currently, she is just annoying. You don't nerf things because they are annoying, you rework them. What she needs is buffs in other areas to deal with this problem.
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You can only believe 1 of 2 things about the data:
- The data is not accurate and does not show a proper representation of what is actually happening because it is heavily biased due to things like:
- A killer being really hard to play (like nurse) for the average player
- Survivors killing themselves on hook and giving up
- Survivors not knowing how to counter a killer properly (sadako)
- Killers afking and farming in games lowering the killers win rate (doctor)
- The data is accurate, and skull merchant is the best killer in dead by daylight history, and again, more OP than 5 blink nurse.
You can't have your cake and eat it too here.
- The data is not accurate and does not show a proper representation of what is actually happening because it is heavily biased due to things like:
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@CursedPerson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802456#Comment_3802456
Id rather use their data then youre own made up stats. There is a undeniably a portion of games that are won to survivors giving up but her kit gave too many buffs and debuffs for just dropping a drone at a tile. The amount of players who also dont know when or how these buff are applied is also a massive design problem.
So you are going to believe that skull merchant is the most powerful killer to ever exist in the history of a dead by daylight. Even surpassing nurse, and i don't just mean nurse now, but nurse with 5 blinks?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802783#Comment_3802783
You must be very good, very toxic, or both :) I've played maybe 20 hours lately after a long hiatus, about 15 of which were as survivor. I didn't have a single DC against me as killer and I only had a couple teammates DC as survivor.
I'm not specifically talking about AFK farming. Sometimes killers are just friendly and looking to farm, or get pacified by cute survivor behavior, or turn friendly to the rest of the team after one survivor badly sandbags another or kills themself on first hook. This doesn't happen much either, but it certainly does from time to time, and much more often than an AFK doctor. It's also not specific to a particular killer.
It's not a matter of being good or toxic, this happens literally during the first chase or outplay. If i outplay a survivor quickly, or am just playing a hated killer, the first person often immediately just stands there and does nothing then kills themself on hook. I wouldn't even have a chance to play "good" or even "toxic" by the time they give up.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802447#Comment_3802447
Do you have any data to back up those claims? And why are hook suicides the constant refrain I hear on the forum while farming killers are never mentioned? Or the fact that most DCs seem to happen in matches where the killer is dominating, which would also bias the stats we have down? In the wild, I find all of the above are relatively rare. I don't think their cumulative effects do that much on the aggregate, except perhaps in unique cases like SM's kill rate, and even then I've only seen speculation on this.
Regardless, this approach is still the correct one. Killers should all be viable regardless of MMR. The easiest way to do this is to buff weak killers, nerf strong ones, and then make buffs/nerfs to survivor/killer overall such that the game is balanced. Killers too weak/strong at certain MMRs can certainly be adjusted accordingly.
I don't exactly run a datawarehouse on my computer. But i can anecdotally say that survivors give up in probably 30% of the games i play, and significantly more when i'm playing a hated killer like skull merchant.
And i also talk about farming killers, and you can see that in the data around the doctor, doctor is definitely not the worst killer in the game, but he is a popular choice for the afk farming because you just setup a thing to static blast every time its off cooldown and you can still get 10kish bloodpoints a game by just standing there. But this discussion has nothing to do with that, we are talking very specifically about the killers mentioned in the OP
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802447#Comment_3802447
except they said hook suicides only accounted for 2.5% of SM kills and that it’s not much more than average.
Source?
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@CursedPerson said:
The changes havent even gone through yet and she would probably even still do fine. Maybe not 70% kill rate but in no way is this going to kill/gut her. I think she need more nerfs but they didnt want to overnerf her so well have to see what the kr is after
The problem is that the 70% kill rate is not some result of her being "strong" its simply survivors giving up on hook. When i play skull merchant now, generally well over half of my matches (i'd say a good 70-75%), someone literally just gives up IMMEDIATELY as soon as they see skull merchant. They drop their item, then go AFK. Giving up probably leads to a 4k most games, as its now only 3 survivors.
Now lets say i play 100 games as skull merchant.
In 50 of them, the survivors give up immediately and lead to a 4k.
In 30 of the matches, i get a draw, 2 kills
In 20 of the matches, i lose and get 1 kill right at the end
What are the results? Well i got 280 kills out of a possible 400. Which gives me a 70% kill rate. But in half the games the survivors gave up completely, now lets say we remove those matches where survivors give up. What are the results?
Out of a possible 200 kills, i got 80 kills. Which is a 40% kill rate.
You can see how massively these numbers are inflated simply due to survivors giving up. I'd guess skull merchant's actual kill rate is probably near 55-60% when you factor out survivors giving up. Maybe even less.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's not really that hard - if a killer is above average they should be nerfed to bring them closer to average. If a killer is below average they should be buffed to bring them closer to average. The higher the parity between different killers, the better the game balance can be. It can never be perfect, especially with the difference in skill ceiling and skill floor between the different killers, but the devs can and should do their best.
Twins, Unknown, Skull Merchant, Plague, and Pinhead were all above average, so some level of nerfs make sense. Unknown is new, so it's getting its normal post-launch tweaks, and SM is widely despised and seems in need of a rework. It makes sense that they're both getting touched. Plague and Pinhead wouldn't have been top of my list to tweak, but they are on that list. Twins feel like they need a rework more than anything and they weren't changed much this time anyhow.
The problem with this statement is that "average" is actually horrible and unviable at a high level. They need to be brining more of the killers up while nerfing the top 3-4, rather than nerfing something like skull merchant who, when played against for real, has probably an underwhelming kill rate, but only has a high kill rate due to people just giving up immediately against her.
The problem is that kill rates are inflated massively due to survivors giving up on hook, and skull merchant being a 72% kill rate proves that.
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@EletroPc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802268#Comment_3802268
I know, but right the last one who needs struggle, because of that I say about hook turning back after dead, it is not a good decision too, both take chance in 1x1 end game
I think you are missing the point,
The change doesn't actually change anything. All it does is let you mori the last survivor. The killer isn't forced to, nor is the survivor forced to just let it happen, they can still look for the hatch. All this does mean is that those games where the killer finds the hatch first and then downs the survivor, they now have the option to mori them. Nothing else has changed.
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@Attckcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800216#Comment_3800216
You'd think so, but those people not doing gens are still not doing gens but with Sole Survivor or Shadowstep instead. So the killer has an easier time chasing away the ones that are.
So survivors don't do gens, but somehow you still think they should be able to win? Sounds like the survivors are losing because they aren't doing the gens, not because of some perk.
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@MaddieMage said:
The last three days, 80 percent of the killers I’ve faced have been running full aura builds for 3 perks and then Iron Maiden. I don’t know if a streamer or popular player has pushed it but it’s literally 4 out of every 5 killers I’ve gotten suddenly running this. Getting in lockers is supposed to the the other counter to aura reading but with Iron Maiden it’s completely nullified. Distortion is the only perk survivors have to counter full aura builds. Nerfing that is gonna cause a huge problem and I’m waiting for the backlash to it.
So if they are doing that, then they aren't running a single gen defense perk. So those gens should be flying.,
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799231#Comment_3799231
you don’t like the stats because they don’t fit your “killers are weak and oppressed and survivors are super op” Narrative
So you truly believe then that nurse is one of the worst killers in the game, and needs buffs so she could be more in line with some of the more overpowered killers like freddy?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799225#Comment_3799225
She's been out for a year and a half and will be plenty usable after the changes for those who love her. There is no cause for that.
They are intentionally making a change to make it so nobody wants to play her. What they should do is just disable her for the time being.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
Openly admitting in a STREAMERS LIVESTREAM that you intentionally gutted a killer to put her in such a weak state no one would want to play her until the rework and laughing about it is sick sick work BHVR. Seriously what the hell? How unprofessional and flat out disrespectful to your players do you have to get? You are NOT a small indie company, you are NOT new to this, and you are NOT doing your best to engage with your playerbase nor be transparent as youve said countless times.
Why do we have to figure out through an ohtofu livestream that you intentionally obliterated her just so people would shut up? Why do we have to hear from a random reddit post that sometime in the future you'll rework her? Oh and with no details of what that rework will be btw just a vague "Teehee" moment.
Everything about this situation is just flat out disgusting, shady, and really goes to show that on the drop of a dime you will turn your back on players as well as consistently lie but whats new?
Lied about the NFTs
Lied about Freddy changes
Lied about transparency
Lied about trying to add more objectives and early game delays
These are just the big ones, but the continued disrespect you give your playerbase is really gross and I cant think of another company that is this blatantly disregarding of their players, Im sure theres some out there but man is BHVR really taking a top spotYou should post the link to the video.
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@Ayodam said:
So when they move over to lockers (and they will), will you complain about those next? Just curious.
I mean, truth be told, yes. Survivors should not be able to infinitely hide in lockers to hold a game hostage for refusing to progress the game. It's no different than a killer body blocking someone in a corner. Survivors who don't do something to progress the game should get crows after some amount of time.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798982#Comment_3798982
I don’t believe her kill rates reflect that. I believe she is a killer that has a high skill floor but is known for being the strongest in the game, so inexperienced players who may have heard she is the strongest or see that her power is teleportation pick her believing they can cheese their way to victory with something broken or OP. Then, they see how technically demanding learning her power is so they lose a fair amount until they’re better. This may lower her kill rates. Additionally, matches with DCs do not count in kill rates but they are still matches she has been in. Disregarding them lowers her kill rate as it reduces the sample of overall matches she has which would make her kill rate appear lower than it truly is.
You can't honestly say that kill rates are a useful stat, but then ignore one of them because it doesn't fit the narrative. Either stat is useful, or it isn't.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798984#Comment_3798984
It needs both. What it actually needs is a full rework, but that takes time. In the meantime, though, stop the pain
That's not how game design should work, or they should refund everyone who bought skull merchant in the meantime.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798980#Comment_3798980
I use her because she is considered one of the strongest killers in the game and I almost never saw the nurse not use Lethal with any aura perks.
This is what I mean by free hits because the counter play against her is to cut off the line of sight between her and you to force her to guess.
Same thing with the pyramid head where he hits you from behind the wall and you can't see him.
The issue is not that you only have 4 slots, the issue is the free hits and they are unhealthy for the game.
There is no problem with the huntress seeing your aura because she cannot hit you from behind a wall or penetrate the wall to hit you, as she needs a direct line of sight between you and her to hit you, meaning she sees you and you see her.
Right, but then pay attention to what you are saying.
"Aura reading is a problem and it has to stop"
"Nurse is able to use it really well"
"its fine on huntress"
All of these statements indicate that the aura reading itself is not the problem, but nurse, which means that nurse is the problem, not aura reading.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798941#Comment_3798941
I address that in my comment. I think her power is a bit too strong, but the design is a much bigger issue than the strength.
I haven't seen nearly the amount of people killing themselves on hook against SM as this forum would lead me to believe, and the stats exclude DCs, which are plan A for rage quitters. I've definitely seen people who don't know how she works unintentionally throw the game, but that's no different than against many of the killers they've released recently; killers are getting pretty darned complicated, especially if you don't want to spend 15 minutes on the wiki every time DLC drops.
At the end of the day, if survivors are killing themselves on the hook in half of all matches against SM, that is a clear and obvious signal that her power sucks and needs a rework. The obvious prelude to that is a nerf to make counterplay easier, reduce pick rate, and not exacerbate the frustrating parts of her power.
That's different though. Just because something is unfun doesn't mean it needs nerfs, it means it needs changes. These are just blanket nerfs.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798943#Comment_3798943
Completely disagree. Huntress is easy to pick up and use efficiently. She’s newb friendly to anyone who has ever played a shooting game.
Kill rates also show that nurse is one of the worst killers in the game and needs buffs to bring her more in line with some of the more overpowered killers like…checks notes…
freddy and myers
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798948#Comment_3798948
She has the power to cross the map and the power to chase survivors at the same time, and with free hits thanks to the new aura perks.
So ending the chase very quickly is a very effective way to slow down the match.
Plus she can combine these perks together and you have a free hits match.
You really shouldn't bring nurse into the equation when talking about anything though. Nurse isn't playing dead by daylight, she's playing the nurse game.
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@Boons123 said:
As new perks continue to be introduced and some are changed to become aura perks,
I can see the nurse blinking to you and hitting you free hit because she simply sees your aura using the new Predator perk.
Or the the pyramid head uses his power and hits you from behind the wall with a free hit because he saw your aura using the new Zashan Tactics perk.
This has to stop, nobody likes free hits.
Don't think I'm asking for huge changes and huge Nerfs, but I think the easiest solution is the blindness status effect ((((for some killers)))) like the nurse when charging blink so can't see the aura of survivors and she doesn't blink directly to the survivor and hit directly.
This does not prevent her from using aura perks as long as she has not used her power yet.
Exactly the same thing with the pyramid head.
There are killers I didn't mention but I chose these two as to clarify my words.
Every aura perk run is one less gen slowdown perk.
The reality is, the way the game is played, its all about value. The question is simple. What is more valuable doing big damage to a gen? Or that aura perk.
The real question with a perk is pretty simple, compare it to something like pain resonance. Pain resonance buys the killer 18 seconds of time, 4 times for a total of 72 seconds. So, compare that to an aura perk. Does that aura perk buy you 72 seconds of time over the course of the game? The reality is, most of the time, most perks won't stack up against it.
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@Ayodam said:
I know this is bait/trolling but Huntress has one of the highest kill rates in the game (top five) and is consistently one of the top three most played killers. She’s relatively straight forward and the only counter play survivors have is tall walls. Given her insane hatchet hitboxes, that’s not even a guaranteed counter. She can catch you with a clip.
Kill rates are meaningless.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798931#Comment_3798931
Exactly, and I never implied otherwise. Nurse's low kill rate is because of her high skill floor, but she is still very potent, so no buffs are needed. If she could actually get a 100% win rate against the best survivors in the world, regardless of the high skill floor, that would be a reason to nerf her. And that has happened many times in the past, for example with her range add-ons.
Meanwhile, SM is easy to play, but not much easier than many of the killers on the roster. And yet she is dominating. Whether the devs feel she is just straight up too strong, or whether they feel this is a manifestation of people just giving up against her, it's clear she needs either a nerf or a nerf now + rework later. Hence why she got nerfs. Unlike Nurse, don't think there's any way to look at that number and rationalize SM staying as is.
She's dominating because survivors kill themselves on hook. It has nothing to do with her actually being strong.
If someone plays 10 games of skull merchant, and survivors kill themselves on hook in half of them, leading to a 4k, but then in the 5 other games, they only get 1 kill, that will show skull merchant getting 25 out of 40 possible kills which would be a 62% kill rate.
Anecdotally, i'd say i personally experience about 7 of those matches someone immediately kills themself on hook, or just gives up as soon as they skull merchant.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798798#Comment_3798798
Nurse has a very high skill floor. Skull Merchant has one of the lowest.
Edit: And in the February update, Nurse's kill rate was 3.5% below average in terms of raw percentage (58.5% average, 55% nurse). Skull Merchant's was 11.5% above average (70%).
Right, but we don't make balance decisions based on kill rates in a vacuum. If something is super OP and causes someone to get a 100% win rate, but its really hard to do, is that thing still fair and balanced?
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@Mr_K said:
Without updates the game dies. But the amount of new killers/survivors can see a decrease per year. The current model was too aggressive from the start. They should turn a couple chapters into dedicated health/balanced updates.
I don't think "don't do updates" is good
But certainly if they went to releasing 2 chapters per year, and then the other 2 slots were spent reworking killers to have entirely different powers (there is a very long list that this would be good for) and when they run out of those it can be game modes, or new map things or skins etc.
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
"Down the line"?
That could be YEARS before she is even playable again after these nerfs.
"Mitigate some issues"?
Yea, apparently people still wanting to play her despite how weak a killer she is counts as an issue to them. They are correcting that with nerfs so heavy handed they make Freddy wince.
If freddy is any indication, that is probably the case.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
He's the only killer in the game who can chase two survivors at once. Instead of having 3 survivors working on gens, if you use your knights to distract a survivor and get in chase with another, you are functionally putting yourself in a 3v1 scenario simply because there's the same amount of survivors working on gens as you would have chasing a survivor in a 3v1. Having only 2 survivors on gens makes a world of difference for your time management.
This is something i actually somewhat agree with you on. Probably not full S tier like nurse, but definitely very good now. The changes they made to knight make him one of the better killers in the game. He can basically stall out a match a really long time until survivors have no resources. Yeah the guards aren't going to help you catch anyone, but you don't need them to, their purpose is to waste a survivor's time running from them and go after someone else.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798239#Comment_3798239
i am thinking that the perk works like prove thyself where only one instance of the perk can work due to that new 8 meter change. something to test in the PTB. Like i said, if it is too strong in PTB, BVHR will change it such that it is not a problem.
Prove thyself works on all survivors and specifically says it does not stack
The new corrective action says nothing about not stacking:
But even further than that, it's not really a "stack" by LITERAL TEXT it says OTHER survivors get the effect. So why would 2 survivors running it not make it work? The distance on either perk is entirely different mechanically.
In either case, you are missing the point, the thread is literally pointing this out, and warning the devs about it.
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@totallynotamegmain said:
I thought it best with the recent outrage to NOT state my opinion (lol y’all thought) and instead remind everyone that we are indeed playing a horror game and not ring around the rosie simulator LOL
So to remind people of this for the rest of lights out use your best stealth builds to throw the fear of god into people again :)
How exactly does one use a "build" in lights out?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798222#Comment_3798222
right so i don't think it works like that. two people using the perk would give infinity stake out type tokens. i have feeling that only person can correct another person's skill-checks
so for example if survivor 1 start gen A and survivor B comes after.
Survivor A can generate corrective action stacks for survivor B to use but survivor A missing skill-checks would explode gen. Survivor's B corrective action will not work. if it doesn't work like that, BVHR will likely change the perk before release.
they won't allow you to just mash spacebar and get infinity loop hyperfocus by spam failing skill-checks. I consider it a nothing change because it is either too strong and they change it or it is whatever change that has no impact.
The survivor perks seem fun to play around with but killer perk feel like nothing changed. it is like they turn D tier and F-tier perks and upgraded them to C-tier. Not even average perks. To put it bluntly, i have look forward to nothing on killer side in this update. They think predator is such overpowered perk that it need cooldown's. BVHR is just being silly.
That's not how it works when both survivors take the perk. Just read the perk. It corrects OTHER survivors actions, this is true, so if they BOTH run it, why would it not work?