Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790616#Comment_3790616
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790619#Comment_3790619
I am perfectly reading what you are posting and the example video you are using is again ignoring why the perk is powerful in the first place. You a stripping things down so far that I am having trouble finding a comparable example; as this is reductive thinking on steroids.
You uploaded the same horrible example you did when you told me to lunge at the end of the map.
This. Is. Not. What. Is. Happening. In. Game.And. There. Is. More. To. The. Perk. Than. Its. Range.
This would be like uploading a video of someone letting go of a generator prior to it getting hit by eruption. And being like "SEE HOW EASY THIS IS?"
There was more to old eruption of "just letting go of the generator.." same with "just grab a tape…" and "just wait it out…'
Weave attunements 12 meter range is not where the perk starts and stops, there's more to it than the range at which it works. This concept seems to be a bit lost on you though.
"Well its two lunges in distance in a square, SEE??" is what you are responding with.
Like what is anyone supposed to say to that test?I'm uploading the videos now of me playing with weave and another match with nowhere to hide. It'll take a bit but once its uploaded i can show you how little value i got out of weave and how much i got out of nowhere to hide.
Please refrain from doing it if its another video of you smacking the air…
And you just admitted to not running the perk above… please stop it hurts….Do you think, this may seem pretty wild, that if you dont run a perk combo much like you said here;
I do not run this perk combo
that you probably dont get much value out of it… because you dont know how and where to use it properly???
My kid woke up from nap early today so I need to go handle that. I'll post the videos for you later tonight once he's asleep.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790616#Comment_3790616
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790619#Comment_3790619
I am perfectly reading what you are posting and the example video you are using is again ignoring why the perk is powerful in the first place. You a stripping things down so far that I am having trouble finding a comparable example; as this is reductive thinking on steroids.
You uploaded the same horrible example you did when you told me to lunge at the end of the map.
This. Is. Not. What. Is. Happening. In. Game.And. There. Is. More. To. The. Perk. Than. Its. Range.
This would be like uploading a video of someone letting go of a generator prior to it getting hit by eruption. And being like "SEE HOW EASY THIS IS?"
There was more to old eruption of "just letting go of the generator.." same with "just grab a tape…" and "just wait it out…'
Weave attunements 12 meter range is not where the perk starts and stops, there's more to it than the range at which it works. This concept seems to be a bit lost on you though.
"Well its two lunges in distance in a square, SEE??" is what you are responding with.
Like what is anyone supposed to say to that test?I'm uploading the videos now of me playing with weave and another match with nowhere to hide. It'll take a bit but once its uploaded i can show you how little value i got out of weave and how much i got out of nowhere to hide.
Please refrain from doing it if its another video of you smacking the air…
And you just admitted to not running the perk above… please stop it hurts….Do you think, this may seem pretty wild, that if you dont run a perk combo much like you said here;
I do not run this perk combo
that you probably dont get much value out of it… because you dont know how and where to use it properly???
- I was simply pointing on one fact about the perk, which is its range. Most people see 12 meters and they don't think about physically what that represents in the game, so that video is my demonstrating to you exactly how big it is (hint: its not that big)
- Secondly, based on that range, you have to refute any of the other points i made around how much distance a survivor gets when being hit, the fact that there is an icon showing that you are in its radius, the fact that you simply have to spend 5-10 seconds picking the item up and walking it to a corner and then the killer has 2 perks
- 3rdly, again, when new stuff comes out i spend dozens and dozens of hours testing out different things and combinations. I have 4k+ hours on this game my experience allows me to pick up these things very quickly. And, based on your own assertions, how can one "not use the perk combo correctly" since it "just works" please explain that one to me
- Lastly, my assertion is that this perk combo requires you to take 2 perks to get any value, and i'm saying that the value you get from these perks is not non existent, but that you would be MUCH better off and get far mor value running something like nowhere to hide, or just running 2 more slowdown perks instead.
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@ratcoffee said:
i typically play whatever role has the BP bonus, and that tends to be survivor during the day and killer at night. i have a job where i wake up just after midnight & get out at noon, and this usually gives me time to play during daytime hours. however, because of seasonal changes in my work schedule i'm playing at the nighttime more often and i've noticed that the past few days the bonus for survivors has persisted into the night, at least for my region (gmt-5, north america east)
if the player imbalance is so bad that there are not enough survivors to fill games even at peak survivor hours, i seriously fear for the future of this game. this is just a preliminary analysis so i certainly hope people keep playing both roles and i get chances to be on either side to a balanced degree, but a first investigation being this one-sided is at the very least unideal for the future of the game
In my experience it changes depending on time of day. Early in the morning and late in the day its usually on survivor, in the evening around 6-10 its on killer because more people are playing with their friends.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Okay you did not just load up a match with bots to try to justify anything. Please tell me you didnt just do that….
You know whats funny about bots?
THEY HAVE BUILT IN WEAVE ATTUNEMENT EVERYWHERE THEY GO LOL.
So yea the perk will probably do next to nothing against them.
Cmon. And a sample size of one will not help here.
And at 4k hours you did not run every perk setup… hiyaaaa…. I dont want to correct everything in that post. Cmon….
Edit: And after watching that video, what are you even trying to show here? You standing in the middle of the road and smacking the air, therefore weave attunement isnt powerful…
Please…. help… someone….Im losing health states with this….I'm uploading the videos now of me playing with weave and another match with nowhere to hide. It'll take a bit but once its uploaded i can show you how little value i got out of weave and how much i got out of nowhere to hide.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790537#Comment_3790537
Dead hard for distance is a great analogy.
Remember when you just had to assume everyone was running the perk, because it was required to play around it? And no matter what you ended up having to play suboptimally whether they did or not. If you counter by not bringing the item you're just doing that exact same thing.
You can risk that they might not have it, but if they are running the perk, you have to waste additional time going out of your way for no reason. In fact, the extra time wasted more than makes the perk worth it.
It's impossible to not get value from it, even if your opponent plays optimally.
At least dead hard was only usable in player pvp interactions and required active use. Weave combo is entirely passive and takes nothing more than equipping the perk in the lobby.
Dead hard for distance had literally no counter, weave does. You pick the item up and move it to a different spot.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Okay you did not just load up a match with bots to try to justify anything. Please tell me you didnt just do that….
You know whats funny about bots?
THEY HAVE BUILT IN WEAVE ATTUNEMENT EVERYWHERE THEY GO LOL.
So yea the perk will probably do next to nothing against them.
Cmon. And a sample size of one will not help here.
And at 4k hours you did not run every perk setup… hiyaaaa…. I dont want to correct everything in that post. Cmon….
Edit: And after watching that video, what are you even trying to show here? You standing in the middle of the road and smacking the air, therefore weave attunement isnt powerful…
Please…. help… someone….Im losing health states with this….You obviously aren't reading what i'm showing you.
The range on Weave attunement is 12 meters in a bubble. So imagine the trap in the middle is an item, a lunge is 6.21 meters, so 2 lunges is 12.42 meters, so i lunge twice, turn around walk slightly a bit, and that is going to be "close" to 12 meters. Do that in the 4 cardinal directions, and now you can draw an imaginary circle around that item and see the actual range of 12 meters.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Okay you did not just load up a match with bots to try to justify anything. Please tell me you didnt just do that….
You know whats funny about bots?
THEY HAVE BUILT IN WEAVE ATTUNEMENT EVERYWHERE THEY GO LOL.
So yea the perk will probably do next to nothing against them.
Cmon. And a sample size of one will not help here.
And at 4k hours you did not run every perk setup… hiyaaaa…. I dont want to correct everything in that post. Cmon….
Edit: And after watching that video, what are you even trying to show here? You standing in the middle of the road and smacking the air, therefore weave attunement isnt powerful…
Please…. help… someone….Im losing health states with this….OMG PLEASE LITERALLY WATCH THE VIDEO.
I was not loading a match with bots to play against them with weave, i loaded up that trapper match to show you what 12 meters of distance looks like with the traps. Please pay attention.
The other matches i'm playing against real players, i have a weave attunement game uploading and working on getting a nowhere to hide one.
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Second match needs to be redone, a survivor dc'ed immediately
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790591#Comment_3790591
Welp we are an at impasse.
1)The icon tells you, so what? That doesnt mean anything when you are stuck at a loop and having permanent wall hacks on you.
2)Again not all maps are easy to see the ground. You can remember where you got hit but that doesnt mean you have pin point accuracy of where specifically you did. And you may not have the option to pick it back up depending on pressure, killer traversal…
3)It tremendously helps the killer in chase, what??? At different points in chase as well, it tells you where they run right after they turn a wall after being hit. And then at the end of chase where you can wall hack your way to a hit as they are standing at check spots.
The perk essentially closes that area down until someone picks the item up.
I would suggest several things for you.
First, dont tell others to run the perk to see how it actually works, and then in the same breath say you dont run the perk either. Like what is this response/assumption here lmfao. Noone understands the perk that doesnt use the combo but… you who also doesnt run the combo does? Apparently? What is this response? Very odd.Second, why would I purposefully make the worst decision of where to use/test the perks range, to determine how strong something is? You're ignoring context of the perk and why its strong/broken here, I cant say if its on purpose to be honest but sheesh, you picked the one time where the perk is useless and in the one place where 9.99999/10 people will not be getting hit.
Its essentially the same distance as wiretap, 12 vs 14. It works multilevel, it works around loops.Noones getting hit on the edge of the map for the most part, they are getting hit within the actual play space. Should you test something based on where it will actually happen and not some worst case scenario of where it WONT happen? Yea probably test where it will happen.
You are also ignoring the secondary consequence of picking up that item if you choose to do it. The killer saw you do it, and now you dont know if they are coming for you, for 30 seconds.
That's ridiculous. I don't run the perk meaning i have never run it and didn't try to make it work? I played dozens and dozens of matches if not more attempting to make it work, but it just never gave me any more value than nowhere to hide did. I'm saying i "don't run the perk" now because it is bad. Believe me, after 4k+ hours i have tried every possible build you can think of in attempt to get different things to work.
I am uploading the video of my match now with weave, and you'll see that the entire match it landed me maybe 1 hit, arguably 2. Now i'm in queue for my nowhere to hide match, and you'll see the difference in value they provide.
The second part was me simply demonstrating the range of it, not telling you to use it as trapper. Its an example to show the range. The video i linked lays the traps down in 4 cardinal directios 12 meters apart, so you can see if the trap in the middle was the item, the area that would be revealed.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790552#Comment_3790552
Yea that's the point of all these being listed.
Is that its not as simple as the "just do this" argument framework. Theres more to them than "just pick it up…" sort of logic.
For aura permanent area read around an item you can apply this same critical analysis. You "cant just pick the item up" as you may not know where your teammates got hit, not every map is even easy to see the floor much less disern an item on it.
And I cant control where and who got hit, and if my teammates decided to get hit but just not "pick their item up".Why am I, yet again, being punished for what someone else refuses to do?
This is the kind of pushback from the community that makes me laugh, when they complain about SoloQ's state, but direct solutions to help mediate those problems get challenged by those same voices.
And old eruption, 0 activity for 25s is what I am talking about. Absolutely no that should never come back.@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790574#Comment_3790574
See and here is where i'll disagree with you,
Weave + franklin's counter IS easy and it is obvious when it is in play.
- First, you see an icon when it actually is revealing your aura.
- Second, you DO know where YOU got hit, maybe your teammates don't but you do, so you should know where that item is.
- Third, it does not actually help the killer in that chase. The range on it is 12 meters. The speed boost you get for 150% movement speed last 1.8 seconds, and the killer is wiping their weapon for 2.7 seconds.
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- (1.8 * 6) + (0.9 * 4) = 14.4 meters
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- 14.4 meters is more than 12, and you SHOULD be using your speed boost to get somewhere safe you will be well out of range
- So now when you get saved, or lose the killer, or otherwise have a second, you go back to the area you were hit (someplace you probably already want to be since you likely were hit near an objective of yours), pick up your item, walk it a little to the edge of the map and press R.
- Each survivor has to do this once and it should take you an extra maybe 5-10 seconds and now the killer has 2 perks.
I would suggest 2 things for you, first, play a game as killer with these 2 perks, and really see how ineffective the combination actually is. It really is bad, like super bad, the aura reading is so short. I do not run this perk combo, so i have no dog in this fight, because this perk combo is not actually that good and it has such a simple counter.
Secondly, i would suggest just loading up a custom game as trapper with some bots, and go to the edge of the map, then face out into the map, and do 2 lunges. THAT is 12 meters. And you'll realize just how short 12 meters actually is in this game.
EDIT: i'll do you one better, i'll record a video right now and do a little photoshop magic to really show you how short of a range this thing has.
Here you go, this is 12 meters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grUZq0GOmSUYou'll see that it barely is enough to cover a large part of a single non-main building structure, its about the size of a killer shack's inside (not even the outside). This range is so massively short it is not even funny.
Now, i'll work on playing a match right now, no editing, with me running these 2 perks, and show you how little value i get out of it. And then i'll play a match with a MUCH better aura detection perk like, no where to hide, and you can see the massive difference in value these perks give.
I'm in queue right now as wraith, so a killer that will always land m1s to get the franklin's value and can sneak up so it'll be more likely that the item drop happens nearby something useful.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790552#Comment_3790552
Yea that's the point of all these being listed.
Is that its not as simple as the "just do this" argument framework. Theres more to them than "just pick it up…" sort of logic.
For aura permanent area read around an item you can apply this same critical analysis. You "cant just pick the item up" as you may not know where your teammates got hit, not every map is even easy to see the floor much less disern an item on it.
And I cant control where and who got hit, and if my teammates decided to get hit but just not "pick their item up".Why am I, yet again, being punished for what someone else refuses to do?
This is the kind of pushback from the community that makes me laugh, when they complain about SoloQ's state, but direct solutions to help mediate those problems get challenged by those same voices.
And old eruption, 0 activity for 25s is what I am talking about. Absolutely no that should never come back.See and here is where i'll disagree with you,
Weave + franklin's counter IS easy and it is obvious when it is in play.
- First, you see an icon when it actually is revealing your aura.
- Second, you DO know where YOU got hit, maybe your teammates don't but you do, so you should know where that item is.
- Third, it does not actually help the killer in that chase. The range on it is 12 meters. The speed boost you get for 150% movement speed last 1.8 seconds, and the killer is wiping their weapon for 2.7 seconds.
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- (1.8 * 6) + (0.9 * 4) = 14.4 meters
- So, for 1.8 seconds you move 6 m/s and for 0.9 seconds you move 4 m/s.
- 14.4 meters is more than 12, and you SHOULD be using your speed boost to get somewhere safe you will be well out of range
- So now when you get saved, or lose the killer, or otherwise have a second, you go back to the area you were hit (someplace you probably already want to be since you likely were hit near an objective of yours), pick up your item, walk it a little to the edge of the map and press R.
- Each survivor has to do this once and it should take you an extra maybe 5-10 seconds and now the killer has 2 perks.
I would suggest 2 things for you, first, play a game as killer with these 2 perks, and really see how ineffective the combination actually is. It really is bad, like super bad, the aura reading is so short. I do not run this perk combo, so i have no dog in this fight, because this perk combo is not actually that good and it has such a simple counter.
Secondly, i would suggest just loading up a custom game as trapper with some bots, and go to the edge of the map, then face out into the map, and do 2 lunges. THAT is 12 meters. And you'll realize just how short 12 meters actually is in this game.
EDIT: i'll do you one better, i'll record a video right now and do a little photoshop magic to really show you how short of a range this thing has.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790470#Comment_3790470
You said it doesn't solve camping and then said it makes the anti camp mechanic stronger?
Getting mixed messages here, do you want camping to be less effective or not?
I'll disagree with their point and say, it does not solve camping and it does not make AFC stronger. Because nobody actually camps like that, they proxy camp now. 10 seconds doesn't solve the problem, and just makes it so survivors now can ignore their friends longer and power through gens longer.
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@ChuckingWong said:
The counter to weave is really easy, "just pick up your item".
okay lets reuse that same logic on, clearly, broken things in the past, and honestly now as well.The counter to DH is really easy, just wait it out
The counter to eruption is really easy, just let go of the generator
The counter to ruin is really easy, just hit great skill checks.
The counter to Buckle up + FTP is really easy, just wait it out or bring exhaustion addons/perks
The counter to Nurse is really easy, just break line of sight.
The counter to Sadako 2.0 is really easy, just grab a tape.
etc..
You can continue defending broken things based on "well the counter to it is just this", that's fine if you want to do that im not trying to take your opinion away. But it doesnt stand up to anything else that is clearly broken in this game, and was changed because of it by the developers.
And who asked on the percentages of what you play or dont play?- The problem with old dead hard was not dead hard itself for dodging a hit, the problem was dead hard for distance, which literally had no counter.
- Eruption in a vacuum was actually probably fine, the problem was it being stacked with a bunch of other gen kick perks during a time of 3 genning. If they brought back eruption today the same way, i don't think it would be complained about nearly as much especially since it doubles the break events on a gen so it can really only be used 4 times at most on the same gen.
- Also, it wasn't so much that 3 genning was uncounterable, it just lead to unhealthy gameplay on both sides. Things can be totally balanced from a win/loss perspective and still be a problem, for example perks like Knock Out.
- The problem with old ruin was actually that it "WASN'T" that easy, especially for new players. Old ruin had the problem of being too good against new players, and bad against good players who could hit those skill checks, or could quickly cleanse the totem. And the difficulty of countering it was not proportional to the difficulty in using it. Old ruin would just work if you had it without any input involved.
- Buckle up + FTP is not a simple "wait it out" because the timer was more than enough time for both players to get to safety, it wasn't possible to wait it out, it was completely uncounterable, and i'm confused why you think exhaustion perks stopped someone from instant healing with FTP, maybe you have no idea what these perks even do?
- As a nurse main, i'll be one of the first to tell you that nurse is a problem, so that's not really gonna work here.
- The counter to sadako is actually easy, literally just grab a tape. It's more of a knowledge check than a skill based one.
The general gist though on things, is, do they have a counter that is accessible for most players, I.E. doesn't require massive skill to overcome vs how easy the thing is to use (if its equally hard to use, having a difficult counter is fine) or something that is locked behind a DLC or something. That is bad
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@ShadyC said:
Killers that facecamp tunnel just to ruin one person's game.
Survivors that SWF as 2 or 3 so that they can bully the other teammate(s).
Whatever side I'm playing… I feel like more than 80% of my games are contaminated in some way. Solo Survivor without a leaver in the first 60 seconds? Good luck, friend. Killer game without some abusive map offering, with a bunch of synchronized GGEZ's in postgame chat? Fat chance.
The list of ways that people use this game for the sole purpose of being ######### to everyone else is truly endless. This game has more "People being ######### to others" YT content than any other game, by a large margin. And anyone that plays this game can immediately understand why - unless they are on the side of being the offenders, of course. Because, in this game, you either grief or get griefed.
And it's just so incredibly bad out there.
I firmly… firmly believe that BHVR should record all games & chats, and share all of this game's data with the FBI and relevant local police, because doing so would help locate a lot of legitimately problematic people, probably prevent a lot of bad things from happening, and overall we could probably clean up this world if we simply had access to DBD's data.
Convince me otherwise.
Don't hate the player, hate the developers for creating that environment. Don't complain about camping and tunneling, killers are playing to win.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789922#Comment_3789922
Sure that is a problem with god pallets. that is why a killer like Michael Myer's is bad because you can spend like 30 second stalking to get to t2+95.2 seconds and your very likely to lose 3 gens. Generator are resource to be lost. the issue is that you should not be continuously losing gens if your not playing any of your chases poorly with no tracking issues between each chase. unfortunately, that is exactly how game is its current state. you can win chases as killer and still passively lose fairely quickly vs organized SWF squads because objective is ultra oppressive for killer with 0 comeback factor.
having mandatory generator defence feels bad for killer and i hope that in some point in the future they do something that makes killer pressure more relevant beyond tunneling/camping.
Survivors at a top level don't even bother to heal anymore. You simply do not have enough time.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789956#Comment_3789956
Reinami try not to post the TF2 video challenge (impossible)
Literally no player can be at 100% efficiency at all times, so I don't know why you're writing all that when that's literally all I was saying. You're talking in theoretics, not what's in the realm of what is possible.
Refute the video then.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789922#Comment_3789922
Mathematically speaking doesn't really translate properly into the real world.
You're assuming absolutely perfect efficiency in all cases, which is literally impossible.
Playing against good teams without Corrupt is extremely rough, but assuming complete efficiency in an argument is kind of flawed.
But that is how you balance games. You balance them around the people who are best capable of exploiting things. This is why they need to nerf loops significantly and nerf the power of structures like shack rather than increase gen time. Increasing gen time hurts the low skill players, nerfing the power of loops only hurts the high skill games where survivors dominate because those low skill survivor's aren't using the loops to their full potential anyway. Then they could even go and LOWER gen times even.
And before you go and say "but those players are rare" it doesn't matter, there are ways you can balance the game intelligently to deal with both high and low level play:
This video is talking about TF2, but the principle still applies. I timestamped the relevant part but the whole video is a good watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=3m23s -
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789937#Comment_3789937
I've been watching DBDLeague VODs a bunch lately and a good chunk of them have been using Pentimento, usually paired with Ruin and maybe Undying on top of that.
They must be desperately trying to find some new slowdown with all the nerfs then, since ruin is garbage survivors can just completely ignore ruin and then the killer has 2 perks. Either that or they banned more perks again. I'd have to see the banlist.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789869#Comment_3789869
Pentimento is off meta? It's used pretty extensively at high level play.
It is almost never used in any comp games.
Comp games typically have the killer running 4 slowdown perks or 3 slowdown perks + noed with the OCCASIONAL STBFL.
Of those slowdown the ones that are used are:
- Corrupt
- Deadlock
- Pain res
- Grim embrace
- Surge
Maybe Pop, although i haven't been watching anything since the pop nerf again, so i would guess it is trash again.
In comp play, even with multiple hex cleansing, hexes just don't stay up long enough to be valuable at all. Effectively all they do is waste 16 seconds of a survivor's time and that is even if they bother to cleanse the thing.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789818#Comment_3789818
i mean if you struggle to get 1 down before 4 gens are done, that is likely a skill issue with killer. my issue with killer is not that i can't get a down consistency before 2 gens pop. it is that the more i play aggressive to get downs around the map, the more gens i lose compare trajectory of survivor objective.
this means that i can get 3 hooks in 3 minutes and i lose 2 gens. if i continue to fish for another 3 hooks, i'll be at 1 gen left and nobody dead. say on 8th hook, i kill someone, i am at 1 gen or 0 gens left. this means that i can be dominating for 6-7 minutes straight on every chase and i am still losing.
for that reason, killer are like forced to camp and tunnel because…. they need shortcut objective. like the game based around you 2nd staging a survivor on hook or you tunneling correct people. that is why changes like that 70 second change doesn't make any sense because killer just don't have the time to do their objective.
this is my thoughts on that stuff.
Mathematically speaking it works out though, again it takes roughly 20 seconds to physically cross the map, by the time you get there the 4 survivors can be starting a gen, so we'll say the first chase starts at the same time the gens start.
The survivor being chased shift+w to the nearest god pallet this takes probably 20 seconds before they drop it. They drop the pallet, its a god pallet it MUST be broken, this adds 20 seconds to a chase. Kill can continue chasing, or give up and look for another survivor, if they give up, the chased survivor hops on a gen, and the process repeats but now you have to find a survivor. So you keep chasing catch up, they predrop another god pallet, you break it. Now they shift+w you land a hit, 18 seconds later you land a hit again, they are in the corner of the map, 2.7 second wipe animation, 3 second pickup animation, 10 seconds to walk to a hook, 1.5 second hook animation adds up to…..
20 + 20 + 20 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 95.2 seconds. 3 gens done.
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@TheSubstitute said:
Okay, the perk is garbage. We all know that. How about if it started with a repair speed penalty (not an oppressive penalty but moderate) until a survivor was killed and then the penalty disappeared?
In my opinion it would be a healthier slowdown as, once a survivor is killed, the penalty disappears so that would discourage tunneling and would place it with Ruin for healthier slowdown options. It would less of a win more when already winning perk and more of a get a reward for spreading hooks perk.
Of course it wouldn't stop tunneling anymore than BBQ prevents people from camping (even if BBQ is almost completely worthless if a Killer camps) but at least it would be a slowdown that could provide an alternative to tunneling. In my opinion, slowdowns that encourage healthier gameplay styles are a good thing.
On a side note BHVR if any of you read this feel free to bring back Ruin disappears when a survivor dies but bump regression back up.
The problem with dying light is that it is a "win more" perk. Basically, it only really starts kicking in until you have gotten 4-5 hooks, and by that point, the game should be almost over one way or the other, so it doesn't really have time to take too much effect. 3% off a gen is 2.7 second slower for each stack. It really isn't going to start making that much of a difference until you get 4-5 stacks. On top of that, you can't gain stacks on the obsession.
In order to keep with the theme of "ignoring the obsession" i would suggest something like:
- Remove the buff the obsession gets, it doesn't make any sense
- Make it work off hitting a survivor instead of hooking them, so it becomes like a save the best for last for gen defense.
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/425433/about-oppression-perk
They actually cut the perk's cool down by half so it's not very long now due to it only having a 40 second cool down now instead of the old 80 second cool down.
However the buff that I think Oppression should get is that, since it doesn't work with other gen regressing perks, it should just be made to where it regresses gens at a faster rate than normal(even if it's just SLIGHTLY faster) and, instead of a skill check for survivors working on targeted gens it should just kick them off of the gen and block it for a short period of time then start regressing the gen after it isn't blocked anymore. Yes, this would remove the chunk of progress that failing the skill check would remove, but it'd be made up for by the sped up regression speed and the gen blocking would be making the perk a little more consistent.
I think really all it needs now is to apply the 5% to all the gens it hits really. With the shorter cooldown it can be much better but it needs to apply at least that.
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@Crowman said:
Being oblivious means that Legion can't track you with Feral Frenzy. So you can just not cleanse the plaything totems.
This
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@DraculaNeeds2BeOP said:
We need to seriously do something about these hackers on pc I just encountered a hacking Billy who instantly downed and hooked all 4 survivors as soon as the game started and an artist with magic aim and aimbot and also a hacking and cheating killer who was stacking every single perk in the game and speed hacking survivors as well, which is why I’m sticking to playing DbD on my ps5 as it’s a lot harder to hack and cheat games on console.
You don't need kernel level anti-cheat
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789584#Comment_3789584
if your not getting downs, you'll lose with every build.
That's the point, you need perks to help you do that when all it takes is for a survivor to predrop 1-2 god pallets shift+w to a corner and 3 gens get done.
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@Bookern said:
With the new chapter a new meta slowdown build has been appearing alot Wretched Fate, Pentimento, Dying light.
How strong is this build op or no?
The problem with these is that there is no early pressure. Dying light is a terrible perk and is just a "win more" and it isn't even good at that. If you don't get a quick first down you are gonna have a bad time. And if you have early pressure you don't need these perks. So all they are really doing is giving the illusion of being strong because they make you lose faster when you are already losing.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789443#Comment_3789443
I don't think Bloodlust should get removed entirely, I just think it should be a lot more rare tbh. You have so many killers starting chases with playing for bloodlust.
Bloodlust is necessary. I don't think you realize how strong shift+w would become (hint: it's already the best tool a survivor has) if they got rid of bloodlust.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3789397#Comment_3789397
This is obviously just my experience and my opinion, but there has been a ripple effect as a result of simplifying killer play over the years. I often get 15-20 seconds from just standing a pallet as a survivor because killers absolutely refuse to risk a stun and try to bloodlust most unsafe tiles. It's how a lot of killers play. They stack 3 or 4 slowdowns and bloodlust it in chases.
Because breaking the pallet gives 20 seconds of distance. Literally predrop 2 god pallets, shift+w to a corner, and if your team is actually doing gens, they'll finish 3 before you even get hooked.
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@bornagain234 said:
This is the lowest ive ever seen on release.
Played 10 matches so far, havent seen a SINGLE dracula. This is the bad thing about updating other killers during a release. I have seen dredge, nemesis(3x), nurse (3x), doctor (2x) and a spirit.
I dont think you should be updating killers during a release, especially when its a clunky meh killer. If its someone like wesker you can update 10 other killers and everyone will still play him.
This is also why you cant ever again release a survivor achievement that is to X thing against Y killer like you did with vecna. I maintain 100% achievements and that was a nightmare. Now it would be damn near impossible, I havent seen a vecna in over 100 matches.
Dredge, nemesis and doctor received changes, so people want to try them
Nurse and spirit are the only viable killers at the top level which continues to get worse and worse with each patch as they continue to nerf gen defense.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788613#Comment_3788613
Honestly, I'd press it one minute* after any kind of map offering. That's a mechanic I despise and that seems better than the alternative : making the match as unfun and punishing as possible. It would certainly be faster.
*One minute to guarantee loss of add-ons and offerings.
Again, how is that ANY different, that survivors killing themselves on hook a soon as they see a skull merchant, or a map they don't like, or some other little issue that happens?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788674#Comment_3788674
Quite. The game continues and its still 4 people in the game and a bot. We dont get killer bots. We definitely don't want killer bots. Have you tried the tutorial? Ugh its horrible.
But thats the difference, and its a major difference. Still, Killers should get a way to decline playing but… not like this. Definitely not like this.
A hook suicide does not create a survivor bot, it eliminates them completely.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788613#Comment_3788613
literally this. Killer loads in, see's a map offering or, just gets a map they despise… boom, insta end of game. That would likely be the norm imo. And this is just one of probably many ways to abuse it.
And that is any different than survivors doing the same thing gainst a killer they dont like?
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788246#Comment_3788246
Personally i've never played dota so it could be lies. From doing a quick search though, several websites seem to say that there is a way to surrender but all players on a team have to do it. In public matches it can also only be after the 30 minute mark. Again, never played it, maybe it was even removed.
Something like rocket League does offer a forfeit option though. But only after I think the 1:30 mark. It also requires everyone on the team forfeiting as well. Which honestly I'm fine with. Though it means that they either want to continue trying or want to ruin the match out of spite.
If you look at my steam profile, i have almost 3k hours in DotA, i promise you, there is no surrender option in DotA. That surrender option is very specific to tournament type matches that the pros play.
Here is a relatively recent reddit thread where someone is asking for them to add a surrender option:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1clx857/dota_2_needs_a_surrender_button/
EDIT: it appears they added one but only if you are playing as a 5-man team which personally i haven't done in a while, i generally play by myself or if 1 or 2 friends:
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Killers can, and do, already stand in a corner and go afk until the match ends.
Also, there's no penalty for that either.
Right, but survivors still have to do the gens and often times intentionally wait out the collapse timer. So the match probably still takes a solid 7-8 minutes even if you stand in the corner immediately. Dying on hook is instant.
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@LordGlint said:
I'm curious how often that would instantly be pushed when an Erie of crows offering is used.
@tippy2k2 said:
Half of me thinks this is totally fair. While not nearly as irksome as they once were, Bully Squads can still make the game absolutely miserable and get you to a point where you're just done.
But on the other hand, survivors being able to do that when the littlest thing goes wrong is ruining the game and giving one more player this option just adds to that...
Either the survivor should not be able to do it, or the killer should also be able to do it. Am i wrong?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788244#Comment_3788244
I think seeing the red stain a second at most earlier is indeed a relatively small advantage. Especially when compared to what cheaters usually pull off. If anybody has encountered real blatant cheaters that want you to have a miserable time, regardless of the role your play, im certain one can agree on that.
I personally think that shaders give a smaller advantage than streched resolution gave to people (literally seeing over objects resulting in certain tiles not being mindgameable and countering ghostface´s power).
I do however think that people like Otz that just adjust the brightness a bit to make the experience more pleasant or that have problems with eyesight do not really use shaders to get a competetive advantage. Making the game brighter does usually not make scratch marks or red stain more visible as far as I know.
As I mentioned before, using shaders to make the red stain look like a block in front of the killer while the colours of the rest of the game look grey at best, is definitely done for an in game advantage and to these people I say the same as to the people that used streched res to do the same in the past: good riddance!
So to conclude. I think making the game a bit more bright is definitely acceptable.
But therein lies the problem. The same program that can "just increase the brightness a bit" can be used to increase the red stain such that it can be seen through cracks in walls in ways that normally it could not be seen. So this program can be used to go into the territory that you already agree is a "cheat". So in light of that, there's no way BHVR can allow this program to be used in a way that lets them see HOW it is being used and then ban those that are using it a little "too much"
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@Szakally said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787614#Comment_3787614
These games have an give up button as team. As usual, you mention the same games, but you forget about this aspect. It's easy to manipulate when you only give some of the info. ;)
Actually they don't all have give up buttons. DotA does not, and a match of DotA can easily last an hour. Are you saying that DbD players are so special that they can't sit through an 8 minute match they don't want to but DotA players are able to sit through an hour+ long match they don't want to play because they don't like the hero their opponent or teammate picked?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787412#Comment_3787412
This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post.
Its undeniable that certain software is used to gain a competetive advantage. Saying otherwise is plain wrong. However, as with most aspects discussed here, there are layers to it. Not all players that use shaders use it to gain a competetive advantage.
One example that comes to mind is Otz. When he streams, as far as I know, he puts a filter over the game for the audience so that the viewing experience is more pleasant. I presume many people do something akin to that.
On the other hand, you have other streamers, Im certain that most people know them that are invested into competetive dbd, that use different shaders for different maps to gain an advantage over others. This is what @Reinami is presumably talking about it here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787422#Comment_3787422
The advantage is often relatively small, especially when compared to the massive advantage streched resolution was able to provide in the past.
Similarly to streched res, however, nobody can convice me that making toba landing look like the desert from dune just to have the terror radius / scratch marks be flashing red on your screen is just to make the game "look nice".
- Making the game a bit brighter to have a more pleasant viweing experience? I dont think anybody has a problem with that.
- Using specific filters for each map to make crucial gameplay indicators easier to see or straight up earlier visible? That is where people take offense and I can honestly understand why.
Ok, so now w are getting somewhere. The advantage it gives is SMALL. So how much of an advantage do we think is acceptable for a 3rd party program to give before it crosses the realm into a "cheat"?
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787763#Comment_3787763
- You don't need your team to win. Self explanatory. A win for a survivor is not when all 4 people escape, it's when that individual escapes. Their death does not determine your outcome.
- You have to prove intention. In a game like League of Overwatch proving the difference between an unskilled player making bad decisions and a player intentionally throwing a game can be difficult. It's a job entirely on it's own. You probably think this sounds simply and easy in your head but actually take the time to think about the logistics of responding to a reported player and concluding they did in fact die on hook on purpose in a way you can prove it.
- It's not against the rules. Dying on hook is your means of forfeiting a match. You decide you no longer want to win or cannot win, and therefor choose to die. You can do that as you please.
- By design you DO need your team to win as a survivor. A hatch is considered a draw, not a win, killer is by themselves so there is no other "team" there. Unless you are suggesting that 1 survivor can "Win" by doing all 5 gens themselves and escaping through the gates, which is never going to happen unless the killer lets them.
- I think it is very easy to tell when someone is throwing a match in DBD, it is no different then running yourself at the enemy base in DotA.
- I'm saying it should be.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787614#Comment_3787614
LoL (and probably the other games as well) has a forfeit option so a team that has clearly lost can give up to stop wasting everyone's time. If dbd had a similar system, I think there would be a lot less self unhook attempting.
Of that list i can only confirm LoL does, but CS:GO definitely does not, nor does DotA and games of DotA can routinely go for more than an hour long match.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Id agree it shouldnt be a thing at all.
Short of making survivors just immune for several minutes, I dont know how though.
Its boring to watch and boring to play on both sides of it.I have always proposed a solution like this:
- Remove basekit BT
- Remove the Anti face camp mechanic
- Rework anti-tunnel perks like OTR and DS
- You won't need them shortly, we'll replace them with something better
- When a survivor is unhooked, they receive a new status effect called "Ethereal" for 30 seconds
- The basic gist of Ethereal is that it is the survivor version of spirit's power, but more exactly, while ethereal…
- The survivor moves at 200% movement speed
- They have no collision with the killer
- They make no noise to the killer
- They make no scratch marks
- They leave no trails of blood
- They are completely invisible to the killer
- They see the aura of all of their teammates
- They are not affected by any killer power's or perks (although any stack effects that normally do, stay on them like sadako tapes for example)
- They are UNABLE to perform any conspicuous actions
- After the effect expires, they are fully healed to the healthy state (this removes all killer effects that aren't meant to persist, for example like plague power, and wesker infect, etc.)
- Those killers may need some buffs to compensate, but those can be handled on an individual basis.
- The basic gist of Ethereal is that it is the survivor version of spirit's power, but more exactly, while ethereal…
- When a survivor is hooked, if the killer lingers within 16 meters of that hook for 5 seconds (with a 10 second grace period), regardless of if there is another survivor nearby or not (unlike the current mechanic) the survivor is automatically teleported the hook that is closest to the survivor that is furthest from the killer.
- Basically, if the killer camps, the survivor gets teleported to a teammate that should be able to save them before the killer can get to them, and once saved, they now have 30 seconds of safety.
This makes it so a killer can't camp, they can't tunnel, because the survivor can get to safety and is fully healed. So even if they "tunnel" it is another reset and fair chase that the survivor gets plenty of time to get to a safe area, and is fully healed.
On the flip side of it, when a killer hooks a survivor, they now KNOW that survivor cannot be working on gens, or healing, or doing anything useful for 30 seconds. Effectively the survivor is put on a "time out" this means that hooking a survivor, and then IGNORING them is actively encouraged, because now you can have 30 seconds of only 3 survivors on gens.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787614#Comment_3787614
Those are all balanced non-asymmetrical games. Completely irrelevant what they do.
What aspect of an asymmetrical game makes it so different that you can't punish people for intentionally ruining games?
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@Boons123 said:
A man with a vampire father and a human mother, he has mastered sword fighting and can transform himself into a bat or a wolf like his father and has magical powers.
Here he fixes the generators and run for his life from doll and teenager.
This is embarrassing.....pathetic..…..
Yeah, personally i think they should have made him a skin for the killer instead.
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@Haddix said:
With the +300% timer speed near a Hunt, and the added restriction of needing to create longer patrol paths to place a Guard, Knight is now more encouraged than ever to use guards at range and go off and do something else.
Except, it's still the most inefficient thing possible because
- Although Hunts are longer, the "window fake" bug has been made a feature, so they are less deadly by design. This is okay but Knight needs more compensation.
- Knight has absolutely nothing when he is chasing someone else when far away from an active Hunt. He can't even use Carny to break a pallet - it'll end the Hunt even if it's 700 meters away. This kinda sucks.
For a simple change, I propose that while there is an ongoing Hunt, the Knight benefits from a 5 to 7.5% Haste bonus unless he is near the Hunt. This simply just helps him DO SOMETHING while Jailer sucks at playing tag with Ace for 40 seconds. I'd be more than willing to increase the Hunt proximity penalty range from 8m to 10m (god even 12m), and obviously tie this Haste to that range.
Also Call to Arms basekit, and maybe buff Carnifex's chase cause it feels pointless to ever use him other than breaking pallets. He's got slightly better old Jailer syndrome.
They should double down on the "chasing another survivor" thing and make the guards actually a threat in chase, then make it so doing tiny paths is really bad, and that you can't sandwich the survivor. So then the "power" is effectively, you can sort of be in 2 places at once by telling the guards what to do.
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@Rugalraim said:
You can't stop someone from giving up in the first place. They need a penalty but I don't know how.
The same way literally every single other multiplayer game does it, you ban people for "feeding" or "throwing" the game.
- LoL does it
- DotA does it
- CS:GO does it
- Rainbow Six does it
- Overwatch does it
- The list goes on.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
Afaik it has to be revealed using perks that have a time limit on them, reveal the killer aura for so many seconds etc; so stuff like Kindred wouldn’t count.
I definitely got it using kindred and the new perk that shows auras when gens are completed. So kindred has to count, because that perk only reveals for a few seconds.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787522#Comment_3787522
This is textbook sealioning at this point.
I must have missed the class where the Socratic method of debate was suddenly a bad thing.
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@Nathan13 said:
Ever since Haddie came to DBD she has only gotten 8 outfits so far, but Mikaela has gotten 8 outfits THIS YEAR. I understand she’s a popular survivor but I still feel bad for some of these survivors that get shafted.
Cosmetics have always been and will always be about popularity.
If they release a skin for haddie, and 10 people buy it, but then release a skin for mikaela and 10,000 people buy it. They are going to stop making skins for haddie and make more for mikaela.
If you want to get more cosmetics for your favorite character, the best thing to do is to support that character and buy cosmetics and convince others to do the same.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787497#Comment_3787497
It's pretty evident 🤷
People who are concerned over accessibility don't celebrate the removal of a tool that was used by the visually impaired to even the playing field without compensatory measures being added to the base game.
That is quite the strawman there.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787507#Comment_3787507
Oh, yes, because cheating is defined as acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. BHVR themselves define this as "Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. We are not banning for the use of communication apps" in the game rules.
While I cannot speak for ReShade, Nvidia Freestyle requires that the developers of a game specifically opt-in and whitelist the program, or else the current issue appears of "a supported game is required to use this feature". Therefore, as it has been specifically whitelisted by the developers, it falls outside the scope of what they consider to be cheating while using a third party app, and therefore doesn't constitute cheating to me either.
Ok, so.
Can you explain, are you absolutely certain that reshade does not fit that category?
- It is a 3rd party software or "other tool"
- i think you would agree with this
- Does it "gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn't intended by the game and is not whitelisted"
- Give the topic of discussion it would seem that such a program IS NOT whitelisted
- Literally in the next sentence they explain what is whitelisted by saying: "We are not banning the use of communication apps"
- Can you show me any official source other than this post that shows in the next sentence that filters are whitelisted in any capacity?
- Does it or does it not provide some kind of advantage over players not using it?
- It is a 3rd party software or "other tool"