Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797866#Comment_3797866
I joined dbd 2 months after Twins so I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but there's no way Twins era was as catastrophic as Resident Evil.
Rpd was disabled for an entire month straight immediately upon release. Using any killer power would freeze your Game for 6 seconds. You couldn't use any Exhaustion perk, and if you were in struggle phase you'd automatically be sacrificed if the killer had Sloppy, Noed or were named Freddy or Myers
Us console players were no Exhaustion Gigachads who literally had to be playing 10 seconds into the future
Twins was by far the buggiest patch EVER. The killer flat out didn't function, many bugs with the killer just completely disabled your power, or made you get stuck in the ground, or made you get stuck as victor, matches often didn't finish for anyone else due to map issues, the server was constantly dying. It was so bad that it was the only DLC that i never actually bought with money. I spent my shards on it because i refused to support them for that update because the game was so fundamentally broken.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797775#Comment_3797775
it depends how it works because my impression was that 8 meter change makes the perk not stack, like prove thyself. in other word, only 1 person can be affected by corrective action.
if it feeds into itself than i can see what you mean by the perk being strong in a swf that runs all 3 perks and stacks on generators since you would have unlimited tokens. at the same time, co-op gens is relatively fast such that i think you might finish gen before hyperfocus ever reaches 6 stacks. More or else, just another variation of gen-rushing by SWF. i don't think soloq will ever be using this, not until they buff the ability to see teammates perks which they still haven't done that basic change because it will take years.
Right, it doesn't "stack" in the sense that you think of, but basically if you run the perk, it corrects the failed skill checks of everyone else nearby and makes them great skill checks, and consumes a token right?
So imagine a scenario where survivor A and B are both on a gen and they have hyperfocus and this new corrective action.
Survivor A:
- 3 stacks of corrective action
- 0 stacks of hyperfocus
Survivor B:
- 3 stacks of corrective action
- 0 stacks of hyperfocus
Survivor B now fails a skill check, it becomes a great skill check, what happens?
Suvivor A:
- 2 stacks of corrective action
- 0 stacks of hyperfocus
Survivor B:
- 4 stacks of corrective action
- 1 stack of hyper focus
Now survivor A fails a skill check, it becomes a great skill check, what happens?
Survivor A:
- 3 Stacks of corrective action
- 1 stack of hyperfocus
Survivor B:
- 4 stacks of correction action
- 1 stack of hyperfocus
And repeat. Failing a skill check as survivor B, gives Survivor B a stack of hyperfocus, AND a stack of corrective action while removing a stack of corrective action from Survivor A. And vice versa if survivor A fails a skill check.
What this effectively does is, each survivor can continually fail a skill check, which then becomes a great skill check, and they get their stacks back, and now they can both infinitely trade off their corrective action stacks, while also gaining hyperfocus stacks. Which in turn causes the probability of skill checks to go up, which in turn gives them more great skill checks, and so on.
This creates an "infinite" scaling combo (infinite in the sense that, the combo is permanent, but the gen is not) where they can trade their stack back and forth, while making the gen go faster and faster.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797804#Comment_3797804
We were talking about the survivors who aren't new but aren't SWAT experts, so the graph will do nicely. Still using the graph we would say a tad less than the middle parts (30 going left and right equalling 60) would be ideal. Some simple things for any skill level to enjoy while having things that those of higher skill enjoy.
Now we would put Nurses skill floor somewhere near the upper end, not the top end but up there. How many people in that "average" skill group would try nurse thinking "strongest killer", fail, and stop? How many would keep going, failing a ton before reaching that skill floor to become somewhat effective? Compared to the other 3 who's floors are much lower than Nurse, people can pick up and play and have a decent shot at murdering the survivors. It seems more likely that these 3 would be getting more kills than Nurse since there would be more of them that could.
So if you think balancing around the average level player is ideal then do you think that nurse is "fine"? Does she need a nerf?
What about BHVR? Why did they nerf blight and remove hug tech? Surely average level blights didn't know what hug tech was, let alone actually using it properly in a match.
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@GeneralSkien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797870#Comment_3797870
id argue killers like spirit, and huntress take skill, along with dead hard, but you do make a good point on skill expression
Like i said, there are exceptions. But now compare even the most "technically" challenging things in this game to pretty much literally any other multiplayer game out there in terms of mechanical skill, and you'll see just how "easy" this game really is.
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@GeneralSkien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797866#Comment_3797866
Well To be fair, based on the patch notes, I don't think anyone expected that twins would be that powerful. I mean people expected they would be powerful, but never to the extent that it put nurse in second place.
I'm not talking about in terms of balance, i'm talking about the game was literally bugged beyond belief and literally unplayable.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
Here's a deal: We can have this change go live if we bring back and unnerf ALL the generator control Perks, while also buffing less strong generator control perks.
If one side gets super strong gen stuff, the other should also get it. It's otherwise unbalanced and not OK.
I'd rather the game not be balanced around taking specific perks, because then all that means is that you see the same dozen or so perks every game.
I'd rather have a world where tunneling and camping is a thing of the past from a basekit perspective, and killers get some basekit mechanics to actually defend gens. Then you'd see a larger variety of builds.
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@FrenchBagels said:
There’s outrage every chapter because people like to nitpick hypotheticals that don’t exist. Remember Blood Rush in PTB? Good times.
That's because this is a game where skill expression is extremely low, almost touching the floor. This game is basically a giant knowledge check. There isn't much skill involved in either side doing anything they do, the question is just "do i know more than you" when you are going against someone.
Thus, because mechanical skill is nearly at the floor, it is very easy to know how something will play out in this game just knowing the changes without even testing them.
There are obviously exceptions to this for sure, but this is just a general rule.
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@GeneralSkien said:
There is alot of outrage surrounding this update, 90% of it being around the gutting of skull merchant (Which I think are awful changes) but what I do want to talk about is, how will the Devs respond? and also is this the most outrage that has come from an update? (why was bloodrush nerfed, what)
Twins release patch is still the worst, because the game was the most broken it has ever been, and they knew it and still released it anyway.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, this was expected. Lights Out was miserable for Survivor, clearly they had to change something. The Head Start was in the last version of the mode btw., the Repair Speed increase is new.
And I suggest to actually play the mode, because only this way it can be improved. It might be possible that Survivors escape too often, then the Devs will work on the mode again.
Personally, I am not that interested in it, so I will only play it as much as I have to, since I dont think it was really fun overall. But this is unrelated to any balance changes they have done.
The last version the gens started at 1% though, which was solely to make it so survivors can find them. 5% means it is actually faster.
The problem with the mode is the game is balanced around killers having gen defense perks and survivors having anti-tunnel perks and this is a mode where the killer doesn't get them but the survivor does. Its super weird.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
please keep it
For 3 years it was the worst perk in dbd history and now it could actually be a amazing perk
That's not how balancing should work. You shouldn't just say "this has been bad forever, so now it should be overpowered"
Why not give predator the same thing and just make it busted?
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@Rigbeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797288#Comment_3797288
the problem is no one wants to learn counterplay. They say that "its unfair" because you can't avoid the scan lines, when literally you stop mov9ng for an iota of a second. There's also the fact that plenty of killers get way more reliable and consistent usage of their power on a survivor yet Skull Merchant is somehow considered brainless and the worst.
Its ridiculous, people refuse to learn to adapt and instead try their hardest to just strong-arm every killer to be within the same range of "loop for eternity".
The problem is really the only thing she needed was for scans to decay eventually. Then she'd be less annoying and it wouldn't be that big of a nerf.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797770#Comment_3797770
Since it's in quotes, how are we defining "average" here?
However it is you define you, but when i hear "Average" i assume a bell curve:
So if this graph is skill level, with the far left being the worst players, and the far right being the best players and the height of the graph being the amount of players. Then, balancing around the "average" would assume that you take that point in the middle and that is what you balance for.
If you feel it should be defined differently though that is fine with me, just tell me your definition of it and we can go with that.
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@Massquwatt said:
It's yet to be seen how corrective action will combo with other perks. I'm glad it's getting a buff but if it works with Bardonic inspiration (once that gets fixed) I can see it being a problem. Hell you could pair Bard with Stake out yourself so you and your partner can get a few fat skillchecks too.
The current version consumes stacks of stake out making it a great skill check. There isn't any reason to think it would work differently.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797509#Comment_3797509
it has 5 tokens, start with 3 and you need hit greats to gain more.
You are missing the synergy here. If you have 2 survivors on the same gen, both with hyperfocus and this perk, they just intentionally miss the skill check. Then their missed skill check becomes a great one, which does 2 things:
- Increases hyperfocus stacks
- Gives them another token for their partner to miss their skill check.
So basically you both just work the same gen and spam spacebar intentionally missing the skill checks. Hyperfocus stacks happen, and you keep getting tokens of this perk because it makes your failed skill check a great one. Top this off with something like prove thyself on one of them and some toolboxes, and you are looking at a solid 20 second gen.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Missing the skill check removes hyper focus stacks.
This combo has anti-synergy.
Correct, it removes it, in normal circumstances. This perk will allow it to be a great skill check.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797710#Comment_3797710
We don't have full context of how this got here, nor do we really care, but we do wanna point out something with:
REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, do you truly believe that dredge, MYERS and PIG, are better killers than nurse?
The average player probably does do better as Meyers, pig, or dredge than Nurse. The casual player will therefore get more kills with those right? Just asking for clarity.
So we make balance decisions based on what the "average" player experiences?
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@HolyDarky said:
I guess the developers give Skull Merchant a hard nerf not because she has a high killrate but because players don't like to face her and either give up or dc against her. They already confirmed that they want to give her a third rework in the near future but I guess until this they want to make her rather weak so less players will play her which means less players will face her and give up→ necessary evil, I guess.
However, I am not happy about these changes. The only reason why survivors give up against her is because she is Skull Merchant. They don't try to play, they just give up for no reason. If players would actual play against her, she would have a rather low killrate because she is not that strong.
But a "NERF" implies she is too strong, if she was "annoying" that would imply needing to rework something, not just nerf her outright into uselessness.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797490#Comment_3797490
Kill rates are massively inflated due to survivors giving up so quickly.
Kill rates in high MMR are higher than kill rates in overall MMR, and I would assume that high MMR has more dedicated players that won't suicide that much, therefor it would stand to reason that this kill rate inflation is not that impactful.
and it is massively inflating kill rates
That is an assumption on your part and one you don't have any data for. Keep in mind as well, and I feel like this is something a lot of people overlook with regards to this subject: Not every match with a survivor that gives up would've been a survivor win if that survivor hadn't quit on hook. I wager that, in most cases, if they give up on hook, there's a good chance that if they hadn't, it still would've been a 3K+ anyway, meaning it didn't affect the kill rates at all.
You also have to remember that this is a two-way street, and there's killers that throw matches too, deflating the kill rate.
You would think that, until you look into HOW the mmr system works. It does not work the same way it does in other games.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797567#Comment_3797567
That just makes no sense. Why weaken the Killer's goal of buying time by protecting gens to kill Survivors, but buff the Survivor's goal of doing them faster?
In a 1v4, the 1 HAS TO be stronger than the 4. Period, end of. This makes the 1 weaker than the 4.
While i agree with your general premise that it is too much, i disagree with the idea that the 1 has to be stronger than the 4. The 1 should be equal to the 4, in the sense that, in a 1v1 situation, the killer should have the advantage because the 1 should be stronger than 1 of the 4.
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Changed =/= nerfed.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Have you considered that the game overall is balanced in such a way that dredge, Myers, and pig are over performing the stated goal of 60%?
That maybe, just maybe, the game is an unfun slog for a lot of players and over tuning the entire game is causing these problems?
I highly doubt that people are, en masse, giving up to skew numbers. What you're seeing is that the game is over in the first couple minutes for the first survivor hooked, and the only real reaction to the current game state is to admit their game is over and go next.
If dredge is overperforming then why did they buff him recently? This was before his buffs.
And are you honestly going to tell me. REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, do you truly believe that dredge, MYERS and PIG, are better killers than nurse?
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796461#Comment_3796461
I think it is obvious what BHVR believes fair is: a 60-40 split of Killer to Survivor wins, and they balance around keeping it not more than about 5% above or below that as a margin of error. If it's really too much BHVR can continue to balance as needed, or Survivors can continue to try and improve while Killers have some breathing room and learn to actually chill out for once.
This is true, they balance for a 60% kill rate, the problem though? Is that their kill rates show that "everything is fine guys"
But i have a "conspiracy theory" around kill rates.
Kill rates are massively inflated due to survivors giving up so quickly. If i play 10 games in a day, half of them someone is going to give up in the first chase and kill themselves on hook, or just be afk. Then the other 5 matches might play out as normal.
Lets say that the true kill rate when survivors play out the game is actually 25% (i have no proof this is what it is, just using this as an example to show the math)
So those 5 matches where the survivors gave up immediately, led to an obvious 4k each game, and in the other 5 matches, the killer only killed 1 person in each game. What would the data show?
Out of a possible 40 kills, the killer got 25 kills, which would be a 62.5% kill rate. So i guess the game is balanced then right?
Their data is including when survivors kill themselves on hook, and it is massively inflating kill rates. I feel this probably is less impactful at lower ranks, but at the highest MMRs, i suspect the kill rate is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than reported due to this.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
Just another killer sided mode. Get the challenges done and never play it again.
A killer sided mode?
You mean the one where:
- Gens are 20% faster, despite the fact the killer has no access to gen defense?
- Basically basekit OTR, so now you get your anti-tunnel perks for free.
The game is balanced around killers bringing gen defense perks, and last time this mode was out it was a complete joke when you went against even halfway decent SWFs, you just need discord and you are good to go on this mode.
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@TieBreaker said:
It's just a way to try and compensate for the removal of anti-tunnel perks. I don't think it will end up in the main mode.
And yet they buff survivor repair speed to compensate for killers not having gen defense? Makes a lot of sense doesn't it.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796011#Comment_3796011
They do that already with OTR though? so by that logic OTR needs to be nerfed? Like yeah its gonna be weaponized but conspicous actions will keep it from going crazy
OTR is less of a problem because it requires a perk slot to use.
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@Grigerbest said:
Omg… Wait…
I haven't seen "OP Nurse threads" for so long… It's like finding a unicorn…
I actually tried Nurse (I was maining her before) and brother… The LOS breaking junk on the map is just everywhere causing a complete chaos for me.
She also feels a LOT heavier with her camera movement. She doesn't have any add-ons to range or cd… What is the problem with her again?
As a nurse main with 4k+ hours, she is by far the most powerful killer in the game, and needs a complete and total rework. I play a couple of games with her nearly every day, and i literally cannot remember the last time i LOST a game as nurse even with me ######### around half the time.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796135#Comment_3796135
I would disagree here (edit: with topdown balancing specifically in DBD). I think what is intended to be a party game vs what is intended to be a competitive game has to balance around these different factors. DBD is nowhere close to being competitive in any respectable setting, otherwise we would have perks and Killers actually be of comparable power levels already. Instead we have Eruption in the same category as Call of Brine, or Nowhere to Hide in the same category as Darkness Revealed, or Friendly Competition in the same category as Prove Thyself.
Now I do think that most Killers and Perks should be much closer to each other in terms of power, but it is clear that BHVR doesn't care whatsoever. It would require a significant overhaul for the game to be remotely balanced/competitive. This game will never be properly balanced, so if you want true competition, you are better served playing CS, SC, or DoTA2. I think it is good we have the Mario Kart equivalent to Lightning/Blue Shells/Star Power alongside Single Banana/Single Green Shell/Fake Block. The game isn't meant to be taken seriously, so someone spamming Star Power is the one who is rocking the boat and ruining the game for the rest of the players.
Hypothetically if they ever actually balanced the game correctly, then I think this top-down balancing could work. Sadly I don't see that any sooner than 2 years out at the earliest.
Edit: Clarification in the first sentence.
Counterpoint:
- The devs constantly release kill rates and various other stats that people care about from a competitive point of view.
- The game has MMR and matches you based on that
- They make balance decisions from a competitive point of view (I.E. they nerfed blight hug tech, something that casual blight players never used, but was very important in competitive play)
How many party games use MMR? Do you think mario party uses MMR, or mario Kart?
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@k3ijus said:
Literally its always the same analogy
“I cant go 20 seconds without a gen popping”
Ive actually had to watch painstockingly gameplay on how they played and i will quickly jot down key points
-they get mad at 1st gen popping
-cant seem to get much value from power/perks
-to many pallets
To explain this, firstly expect the first generator to be repaired fast, the start of game is the strongest point for surviviors, it’s expected it will pop early. If you arent using a supressive killer expect it to be popped or something of equal value.
“”Cant get much value from power/perks”, if your power is skill based like spirit, practice it. If it is more reliant on surviviors input like trapper, casually pressure them towards that area, this can be accomplished by hooking in the region or chasing towards it.
“To many pallets”- this is the only way surviviors can fight against you, you do not have to break every pallet, and you arent required to chase anyone at any pallet. If its not worth it dont do it. Try to chase surviviors near other surviviors objectives to multitask. And the most basic rule is if a survivior juices you once, dont chase them again, it may seem impossible to kill them until you realize they have no protection against hook trades and having half their team dead
EDIT: Before the killer mains mention swfs, what happened to the game being balanced around the average player? And make sure to mention the official escape rate of swfs bhvr documented, will be very interesting
Games should never be balanced around the "average player" because the average player is not abusing things that are overpowered to their fullest potential.
You balance things around what the highest level players can do, but also account for lower level players in your changes. You might have seen this because i post it a lot, but this is a video that explains the concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=3m23sIt is timestamped to the relevant section, and it is about TF2, but the concept transfers over to DBD quite well.
I would suggest at least watching the snipped i linked before you read on but:
For example, you wouldn't just fix the game by increasing gen times or making it harder to kill survivors, you need to do it in a way that doesn't hurt lower skilled players. So, maybe you nerf the killer shack by adding a breakable wall to it, to make its power similar to the one in dead dog's saloon. What would the impact of that be?
- You would nerf one of the strongest structures in the game for high level players, and they wouldn't be able to exploit it as much as they can now
- What would it do to low level players though? Probably not much, because what are they doing at shack? Probably predropping the pallet early, or mistiming their vault so they end up doing a medium vault and get hit anyway.
What about in high skill vs low skill games. What can you do to buff low skill survivor players without buffing high skill survivor players, not to mention solo vs SWF?
- What if survivors got kindred basekit? This would show survivors what their teammates are doing when someone is hooked, so they know who is closest and who needs to go for the save. And you can see if someone isn't going for the save. Also, you could see if the killer is camping a bit easier.
- What about in high skill games? Well, in high skill games, generally everyone has a good enough game sense to know when to go for the save, or if they are in a group they are on discord and coordinating already.
This is just 1 example, there are many many other things that could be done.
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@OPtinnus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773379#Comment_3773379
the counter is not 'Easy' since the perk is bugged and show it as active even when it isn't its just feeding you false information and paranoia. The perk needs to be changed in some way and that bug needs to be fixed before we can talk about 'Easy counters'.
Sure, fix a bug then. Even more evidence we should not be making balance changes to something that is partially bugged.
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@bornagain234 said:
WoO atleast 2x per match sometimes 4
Yellow to yellow to yellow
fun game so fresh not stale at all
WOO is a perk that closes the gap for SWF vs solo. You can't possibly know if your teammates throw a pallet down, but SWFs always know.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794243#Comment_3794243
It’s not about one side being better. Survivors are strongest during early game (no resources used) while killers become stronger as the game goes on and are strongest in late game (when survivor resources are depleted). This is common knowledge and has been DBD’s formula forever.
If you make survivors weak when they’re at their strongest (early game), and make killers strong throughout the game what do you think happens to survivor? They’re now weaker during early game, through mid game (because you made them weaker during early game), and into late game. What happens next?
Except the problem is that if killers lose 3 gens in the first chase (which is typical against teams that actually do gens) they used 2 god pallets, everyone can just shift+w to a corner of the map and get 4 man out every time.
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@Ayodam said:
if they modify early game to be stronger for killers, what do they do for survivors as they are weaker during late game? Or are you asking that killers have a strong early game, mid game, and late game… in which case I’d ask where is the incentive to play survivor..?
Well they did that already in the anti-3 gen mechanic. By the games LITERAL DESIGN the killer is "stronger" later in the game, but that is because it is easier to defend gens, but you can't defend them very well when you can't regress them.
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@Mazoobi said:
Tunneling happens regardless of gen regression strength.
There is a good handful of gen regression perks that have a high pick rate. Eruption and Call of Brine are the only ones that aren't being used anymore.
Nobody is saying tunneling doesn't happen when gen defense is strong, but it certainly happens more. And i have noticed it far more often in my games as survivor since the nerf to all the gen defense perks recently.
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@Bookern said:
Really? Not Wesker but Wolf?
Source?
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@LadyOwO said:
personally I'd love it if the shortened the time it takes pinhead to teleport to whoever I'd solving the puzzle. or Have them held by the chains a little bit longer as he's teleporting to the box.
His chains need to be buffed, Many times hitting the chain you barely gain any distance, if any at all over any decent distance, and if they dodge the chain, forget it, they are completely gone.
Looking at the math for it, when you chain a survivor, each chain takes 1 second to break, and the survivor moves at:
- 1.13 m/s with 3 chains
- 1.695 m/s with 2 chains
- 2.26 m/s with 1 chain.
So in total, during those 3 seconds, you reduce the distance a survivor can move from 12 meters to 5.09 meters. But, the time it takes to switch to the gateway camera is 0.5 seconds, then there is the slight travel time, but lets say you land the gateway literally on top of the survivor and its effectively 0. Then you have 0.25 seconds for the camera to switch back.
That amounts to 0.75 seconds where you are not moving AT ALL. So you give up 3.45 meters of distance doing that. Meaning that now you actually are only slowing a survivor distance down to 8.54 meters. where you are moving at full speed.
In summation,
- holding w and not using your chain, means that you gain 2.25 meters of distance on a survivor during the time you would be using your power.
- Using your chain and landing it PERFECTLY, you gain 5.26 meters of distance on the survivor.
And if you miss, or the survivor dodges, they gain massive distance. That makes the power not worth using most of the time.
The other problem with him on the survivor side is the RNG around the box can be miserable in regards to spawning, and you never know if your teammates are actually going for the box or not.
To combat this, these would be my suggested changes:
- Increase the time it takes for a survivor to break a single chain to 1.25 seconds from 1 second
- This turns it from gaining 5.26 meters of distance on perfectly landed chains, to instead gaining about 7.5 meters of distance. Making it a bit stronger
- Impaling wire becomes basekit. Every single cenobite is running this addon, it needs to just be basekit.
- Make it so the cenobite no longer breaks chains himself when running into them, it doesn't make sense to chain someone, and then have to walk around the chain to not break it, given the little distance gained when landing a PERFECT chain over just holding w. Having to walk around the chain makes you lose any distance you might have gained and is silly.
- Rework the original pin addon to do something else so it can't be used to hard tunnel
- Rework the box spawn logic so that it is more randomized and can't be figured out by the killer or the survivors based on where everyone is.
- Also fix it for maps like lery's where it literally has like 2 spawn points.
- Rework the box to work like:
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- It sucks for new players because they probably don't understand the timing for solving the box at that point and leads to just infinite chain hunts
- If a chain hunt is NOT happening, the box spawns chains on the survivor holding the box and disappear if they start solving the box, so that they are encouraged to actually solve the box quickly rather than hold onto it and hold it hostage.
- If a chain hunt is happening and you are holding the box, the person holding the box does not get chains spawning.
- Rework the Iridescent Lament Configuration to have a downside and be stronger so it isn't just straight up an upgrade. After making impaling wire basekit, this would become the new "always run this" addon.
- 10 seconds before a chain hunt starts, the survivors all see the aura of all other survivors for that duration
- This lets solo queue survivors see if their teammates are running for the box or not and they can figure out who needs to go for it.
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@legiondoctor said:
I had a match no so recently where survivors will all lead to lockers and refuse to progress the match til they locker save me. I literally couldnt do nothing cause they both enter locker and i do the right thing and just leave and find another 2 survivors near eachother they just go in a locker refuse to play. And if i do (i didnt fall for it but i couldn't get a down nor hook cause all chase started near lockers) they just drop an uncounterable flashbang and if i go after either of them they just keep doing over and over. Especially since flashbang got an unnecessary buff i see this attempt of no skill locker save and its literally annoying.
And i know what you will say *why didnt you let them locker save you* then ill get punished and they get what they want.
Why dont you use lightborn? Cause the perk isnt good and then they will just commit to gens.
This no skill flashbang locker save is a lose lose situation and needs to go
The problem is not flashlights, the problem has been a bug for like 6 months now. It used to be that when you picked up a survivor, you had collision with other survivors. Sometime 6 months or so ago, it was made so you lose all collision, this means survivors can walk inside of you, drop a flashbang, and even looking at a wall doesn't fix it.
It also causes issues at pallets because you can't body block a pallet save while picking up a survivor anymore. If they fix this bug, they'll fix the issue with flashbang.
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@tjiw said:
I think that the shrine needs a small update. There are hundreds of perks in the game, and more to come, yet the shrine only offers two killer perks and two survivor perks. A good change would be to offer more perks per week. That way, some perks that never show up have higher chances of appearing, and you won't have to wait for ages until you get that one perk you want.
I think instead of just increasing the amount, which all that does is delay the problem for a few more years, they should rework it to allow you to pick any perk on each side. So you get 1 killer perk, and 1 survivor perk and can pick any perk you want.
They could even add an exception to this to exclude the most recently released perks, so that those don't start becoming available until the next new chapter comes out.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792883#Comment_3792883
I searched "dbd killer dc".
First video i found was a chill streamer that looped some weskers, a vecna, a nemesis and a trickster. Was soloq though and the player seemed way better at looping than the killers at their powers, or at killer in general. No 4man ultra squad there.
Second video is a player with a bit more of a meta build. However, the killers in that video also make huge mistakes and dc for the smallest things like eating a dh. Still not 4man ultra squad there.
3rd video was jrm´s anti 3gen build when gen kick was in full force. Really enojable to watch. ^🐽^
I scrolled through a few more, but they all contained soloq content with sub optimal killer play. One was even about dead by roblox… Obscure stuff let me tell you.
After about the 15th video i stopped looking.
To conclude, im not saying, that @Reinami is wrong here and im certain, that these groups exist. However, the real "death squad", meaning a group of 4 players with no limitations that play this game to perfection against any odds, is extremely rare. Ive seen maybe 2 of them in my almost 4 years of playing this game. Im certain, that there is a misunderstanding and that @Reinami and I think of different kinds of groups.
Do you allow things that are rare to be completely overpowered because they are rare?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792902#Comment_3792902
I mean, literally at work, can't youtube. Dont wanna wait. Will wait if needed. Now, back to waiting!
So you are at work, and can't youtube, but you can still browse the dbd forums? Makes sense.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792880#Comment_3792880
Please update if this is validated. :)
I mean, literally just do it yourself, it takes 2 seconds.
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@Sepex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792319#Comment_3792319
On top of that the aura reading doesn't even feel like it stays up for 10 seconds.
Part of the problem there is the aura is hidden by the little explosion bubble, so by the time you see the aura, half the duration is already gone.
What it probably needs is to
- increase the aura reading to 15 seconds, so that it can actually be a bit more usable,
- Increase the damage it does to the progress to 15% this puts it a bit more in line with other gen defense perks.
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@SlugKil1er78 said:
I made an account to bring up something not enough players are talking about. The goal of the game is too have fun, but most survivors aren't 4 stacks, its like 1 in 100 games. Why are the devs balancing the game around it, at first I was happy because of the ridiculous power of bully squads and some of the broken survivor perks but its just gone off the deep end. I'm a killer main and winning is too easy now, literally like every game I get like 3k or 4k.
Solutions have been proposed but the devs seem to ignore or not know? I think a fair balance would be to add in game comms, you can nerf every survivor perk and item in the game, but if you're balancing the game around SWF 4 stacks then just let everyone be a 4 stack essentially. It would shut everyone up on both sides, yeah there are strong killer perks but if they all have comms it would make it challenging for killers again and make it fair for survivors because comms dont guarantee victory. If even one person was giving call outs it would make the game way crazier. There would be toxic people but just ban them if they get enough reports or disable their mic.
There is also the idea of giving killers 5 perks but only 1 in each category, that was also an interesting proposal.
What do you guys think?
Let me ask a similar question.
Flip your statement on its head. If the game was balanced assuming all survivors are solo because "most are not 4 stacks" (which lets be fair, we don't know if that is true), then when the survivors DO 4 stack, they'll basically have a guaranteed win.
Is that any more or less fair for everyone involved?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792742#Comment_3792742
They do? That sounds pretty awful. Please give me a link if possible.
You'll have to look on youtube yourself because i'm looking to get banned for naming and shaming.
But just search youtube for "dbd killer dc" and you'll find tons of videos about it.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I remember, when a starstruck nurse went against the "best team in the world" with no limitations and slugged them at what. 3 gens left?
Glad thats gone. To answer the question, the only killer that can keep up with absolute survivor optimum is a nurse that is 100% on point.
These groups, however, dont really exist. You will meet them maybe once in 3 years.
These groups do exist and constantly release content on youtube laughing at killers who they make DC.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791000#Comment_3791000
You realize I can just load up a stream and watch his vods? I have hours of footage as well
And i would suggest doing it, just fire up any streamer playing killer or look at a vod look at the timestamp right when they land the hit, and then look at the timestamp after they finish hooking the survivor. Pretty easy to see it takes 15-20 seconds.
Anyway, this is my last post for a while, hitting the road, like i said, i'll be on later tonight and tag you, have a good day/evening!
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790973#Comment_3790973
You are wasting your time.
Anyone who has a bit of experience knows it usually takes around 15 seconds to hook a survivor.
In my experience, I'm more often at '9' while counting the grunts than any other value.
And that's if survivors aren't interfering, which they often do at higher MMRs: body blocking, flashlight, pallet, flashbang.
Ergo: slugging good.
This guy knows what is talking about, i can tell because he counts grunts.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790973#Comment_3790973
You need to be honest with your posting friend. If you are going to come in here and start leaving numbers and saying "statistical" then you better mean you are actually doing that, statistical isnt what you feel. Statistical is objective tangible data not head math. Statistical analysis is a structured approach that you have to set parameters for before hand, and in this case, for average, you have to actually gather the data. Which you did not.
If you had an average or anything statistical you would also have some form of deviation, which isnt here either, no surprise.
I dont need you to post a video as the bias you have here and inconsistent use of the word "statistical" have already proven to me that nothing will be published from a mathematical approach or or non-manipulated approach but from a gut feeling approach.
And also there is a complete killer disadvantage bias in your posting here as well, nowhere is agitation mentioned, one of the most common killer perks taken with pain res… and then the obvious camp trades that happen ad nauseam in this game (see all the camping threads for that).Its simple math friend, but like i said, i'll post a video, i went to go show you a recent video that otzdarva did, but often times he cuts the video from the pickup to when he is hooking. And i think this is part of the problem, if you aren't watching a stream, a lot of content creators do cuts from pickup to hook making it seem like it is much shorter than it is.
But i'll show you an uncut unedited one later tonight. Logging off for now, good luck in the rest of your day and catch you later tonight.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790963#Comment_3790963
So hold up I dont think you did any sort of statistical analysis or sample sizing for that matter, but if you are going to include the "wipe animation" You realize that same time you would include for slugging right? So take that time out of your equation already, you dont even have the parameters of this test setup correctly in the first place.
Are we talking full slug and bleedout? Or full slug and then hook? Cause you would have to include hook at the end into your equation and then total hook….Okay. This is real simple.
Bro you did not do any testing for this. This is all head math you are doing, lets be honest here, there was no mathematical approach, there was no statistical analysis, no testing, nothing.
You are completely ignoring the times, and its quite common as proof on this forum, that you just down someone at the hook where a killer is ….. ding ding ding camping.
I can post several videos myself of it taking anywhere from 6 seconds to 13 seconds. It doesnt really mean anything as things vary in matches, and quite honestly its the internet, you can make things biased to your original take you had.
You need to calm down a bit friend. I am not the OP. I'm simply talking about your assertion that it does not take 15 seconds to hook a survivor. I'm simply saying it does when you add up all the times. And yeah. I did do some math around the average distances the hooks spawn from each other and used that to determine that, on average it would be about 8 seconds to walk to a hook. Yes. Sometimes you are closer. Other times you are not. That's how averages work. Over the course of say 100 games your average about 8 seconds to walk to a hook.
I'm also looking at it from a perfect standpoint. There are other factors such as the killer player probably needs to spend a second scanning around for a nearby hook. Obviously tons of factors come into play. But this is why that guy said, yeah it takes 10-20 seconds to hook a survivor.
Like I said. I'll record a match later and show you how long it actually takes to hook a survivor. Will it perfectly show it? No but I think you'll see that it takes a lot longer than you might think it does. Because I really do think people underestimate just how long killers spend doing basic things. I'm a bit busy today but I'll tag you later tonight when I have it done and you can see the times yourself.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790960#Comment_3790960
There is in no way shape or form you take 15 seconds to hook a survivor.
Stop itDo the math yourself. It checks out. There are a lot of little things that happen and each is short but it adds up.
When I have some time later I'll record a match for you and show the times for hooking. You'll see it's about right in an average match.
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@ChuckingWong said:
10-20 seconds to hook a survivor,
omg….. the hyperbole.
No its worth to hook stop with this.It's closer to 15 on average but it checks out.
2.7 second wipe animation
3 second pickup animation
8 seconds to walk to a hook on average (based on average distances between hooks) some are shorter some are longer but this is the statistical average.
1.5 second hook animation
2.7 + 3 + 8 + 1.5 = 15.2 seconds.
Sometimes you get lucky and a survivor gets downed right next to a hook. But even that will still take you 7.2 seconds at minimum. At maximum it can take 23.1 seconds before the survivor wiggles off.
That's assuming the survivor doesn't glitch randomly and you have to fiddle with the pickup, or you aren't looking around for a pallet or flashlight save or body blocks or sabotages. Each adds a few seconds but it adds up.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
This has been the case on the American servers for years, and probably the EU ones too. It's unfortunately not new, it's just a consequence of the game changing slowly.
It's not "bad Killers", it's not problems BHVR created, it's none of that. No matter what anyone says, it's not ANY of that. It's the fact that this community has turned this simple little tag casual game with competitive elements, and made it into a super comp e-sport, and used that to create divisive us vs. them rhetoric, toxicity, and bred such distrust of the other side that it's entrenched now. The need to win on both sides outweighs the need to have fun, and despite what BHVR tries it's probably not going to go away quickly, if at all.
Unfortunately, people like the commenter above show EXACTLY this issue I am talking about. We see it on the forums every day. There is SO MUCH loathing of the other side simply wanting to play the game as intended, everyone goes "I don't like that the other side can win. Better sweat, because I want to win." Which then makes THAT side sweat, in this case, when slugging happens Survivors sweat more with stronger genrush perks, and that makes Killers not even slugging sweat even more. It's a vicious cycle and it will continue until we all funally agree to a ceasefire and just… stop trying to win so friggin' hard every. Single. Game.
BHVR can help by disincentivizing sweating for 4 man outs and 4ks. Reworking the emblem system. Making pips trivial so people feel like they are hitting a goal, but not having to GRIND for that goal by playing in an unfun way. Grades and Emblems need looking at again. BP gains across the board should be equal on both sides. And MMR gains and losses need to occur at a 1 to 1 rate, not this "you gain faster than you lose" crud that creates the very arguments people are having.
You got it mostly right. But you are missing where BHVR has directly caused this. Yes the problem is the overall sweatiness of the game has gone up. But why?
A combination of 3 factors. SBMM, kills = skills and optimizing the fun out of the game.
SBMM
Skill based matchmaking, by design, creates a situation where the system itself is striving to create a 50% win rate for everyone by creating "equal" matches. What this creates is a situation where every time you win, by definition, your next match will in theory be more difficult.
But, couple this with a game like DBD which has so much randomness and RNG it's almost impossible to properly match people skillfully. Personally I hate SBMM in general. I miss the days of the CoD lobby where you could goof around and "rank" was only about your prestige which was more about how much you played rather than how well you played. Winning only got you that prestige faster, you'd still eventually get it. Anyway that's a different topic.
The point is the system by design means that every game you play, because the other side is again, in theory, equally skilled to you, you must always play at the top of your game. And we know what the "top of your game" translates to in DBD land. It translates to playing in the most unfun ways possible.
KILLS = SKILLS
This brings me to my next point of BHVR balancing such a system on the idea that kills and escapes are what matter, and completely ignoring all the other factors. Survivor is a team game, so if you spend 5 gens running the killer and your 3 teammates get out but the killer has noed and rancor and kills you, it counts as a loss for you. This creates an environment of selfishness on the survivor side.
On the killer side, it creates an incentive of focusing only on kills and forgoing everything else.
For both sides this means that the most efficient way to win is for survivors to slam gens as fast as possible and for killer to hard tunnel someone out as fast as possible. There are other subtle things that can happen like slugging and such. But the point is that for both sides to play effectively they also must play the least fun way possible for all the players in the game.
OPTIMIZING THE FUN OUT OF THE GAME
This leads to the final point, optimization. Players will always optimize the fun out of your game. This is why you as a developer always want to strive for the most effective way to play your game to also be the most FUN way to play the game.
The devs need to rebalance the game around Chases and survivor/killer interaction and matchmake and count wins and losses as something other than just kills and escapes. The problem is both sides are put into this sandbox with an objective that is entirely divorced from the activity that creates the most fun for everyone, which leads to everything being so boring because it's so optimized.
BRINGING IT TOGETHER
In short. Yes. It is the community, but the devs bear the brunt of the responsibility still. They created an environment through SBMM that is focused only on kills and escapes in an environment where kills and escapes are not the end result of the most fun part of the game and the "fun" can be entirely absent and you still complete that objective.
The solution to this problem would be to do one or more of the following:
- Rebalance the game around hooks and chases instead of kills. (I always liked tru3ta1ents idea around creating a "hope" mechanic that the goal of the killer is to fill by doing the things that are fun instead of going for kills and base wins/losses for both sides on that bar. Fits the lore better too)
- Have SMBM also care about HOW you got those kills and escapes and having an 8 hook 4 man out still count as a win for the killer or a 3 man out still count as a win for the dead survivor.
- Ironically, Bring back the emblem system that used to determine wins and losses by you doing multiple things rather than focusing on that singular outcome.
- Remove SBMM entirely and let people get matched based on ranks again, things will still be sweaty for a little while but it will start to calm down eventually.