Reinami
Reinami
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787441#Comment_3787441
The reason why it doesn't apply is because filters are not cheats. If there was a program which could do what you said - and was explicitly and repeatedly whitelisted by the developers, including the most recent issues where they say it is not them or Nvidia but EAC - then I would absolutely consider that fair game.
And, yes, I can understand why we should ask BHVR for an option that works for all. Which we have been doing, and it took backlash from the wider gaming community following a certain dev's comments regarding colourblind mode for it to even be added. If the only way our concerns are listened to is to wait 7 years and then have widespread backlack from those far removed from DBD's circle, then at this point I'll just take the filters. At least they're quick.
Fair enough, but you are the first person in this thread who has countered it by saying "filters are not cheats"
Can you explain to me how filters are not cheats when:
- They can provide an advantage over players who are not using them
- They are only accessible via downloading a 3rd party program that runs while your game runs
- They are not accessible to console players at all, and thus are only available to a fraction the player base
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787441#Comment_3787441
Because someone who is hard of HEARING should not SEE auras. They should receive something to boost the sound or something. And I mean survivors got a visual heartbeat indicator that actually has an advantage because the heart pops up just before the terror radius is actually heard. So I guess we should remove that too honestly, since its technically cheating according to you right?
Fair enough, lets change the example then.
How about a 3rd party program that allows someone to isolate the footsteps that survivors make, to make them louder and turn down things like the chase music. Should that be something that is allowed to be used?
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@イエローミント said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787441#Comment_3787441
To play games on a PC, you need a graphics card. Do you understand that? The "GeForce Experience Filter" is part of the functionality of that graphics card. It is not a cheat tool.
>explain why the same logic doesn't apply to people who are deaf and hard of hearing and using cheats to see survivor auras for example.
Modifying client data to alter the in-game program and determine rendering is cheating. Whether or not someone is disabled is irrelevant to this.
Adjusting the brightness of an iPhone screen is not cheating; it falls within the scope of personal usability adjustments.The filter =/= the graphics card, they are 2 separate things.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787441#Comment_3787441
You should be petitioning the devs to fix this problem for everyone.
We are and always have been. You just wouldn't know that because you don't actually care about the issue.
Can you please point out anywhere i said the words "i do not care about this issue" i'll be happy to wait and when you do find it i'll provide a written apology and compensation to anyone i offended.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787453#Comment_3787453
- You can check NVIDIA's list of officially supported games.
- A deaf person downloading cheats to have wallhacks on survivors is such an absurd strawman I won't even entertain it.
- How do you know I HAVEN'T asked for better accessibility options in the base game? For the record, I mention this in the feedback surveys they do regularly, have spoke about it on Twitter, and previously spoke about it here.
- The 3rd party program in question being software integrated with my graphics card that came with my PC. You heard it here first folks, if you buy a NVIDIA graphics card you're a cheater.
- Did NVIDIA buy BHVR recently and i not know about it? Because that doesn't feel like an official source to me.
- Care to explain how? It really is the same logic, your argument that you have presented so far is not "filter are not cheating" but that "Filters are important for accessibility" i am simply refuting that logic by pointing out the comparison that could be made in another situation. If you want to make the argument from an accessibility standpoint, you must confront the example i provided. Now, if you want to present the idea that filters are not cheating, i would be happy to read that as i have several counterpoints on that as well i could mention.
- I'm not saying you haven't, i'm simply stating that the better solution to accessibility issues is to make them, you know, accessible to all players and that you should continue to petition BHVR for better accessibility options.
- I never said buying an NVIDIA graphics card is cheating, i stated using this 3rd party program is, i can also buy a mouse for CS:GO that has scripts built in to control my recoil, but valve is banning players for that, is that suddenly not cheating either?
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787457#Comment_3787457
agreed it would be a lot better; I truly wish we had decent graphics settings. - But I also take the tiny chance of someone using something that by some is defined as cheating in the mean time over the vast majority being left in the rain.
While not as life threatening it falls - for me - into the same category as the transportation rules saying you must not eat or drink on the subway and that you will get kicked off if you do. Idk about you - but if someone has something in their throat/has an issue with the AC and is coughing as if they're suffocating I doubt anyone has a problem with them opening their friggin bottle, drinking something and chewing gum or eating a bonbon or whatever to help with the throat.I sincerely doubt that the "vast majority" of people using filters are using them because they are colorblind.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787440#Comment_3787440
Look, I'd be 100% with you… if the Dbd devs actually offered a solution to legitimate issues players have. The devs don't, though. And the whole "because one group is suffering because they play on a different platform and can't help themselves everyone has to suffer!" doesn't ring like a very constructive approach.
What i'm saying is, allowing a tiny minority of people to use a cheat for accessibility purposes is not the proper solution to the problem when it enables others to cheat. The BETTER solution is to offer those accessibility options in the game for everyone, and punish cheaters for cheating.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787440#Comment_3787440
Some key things you’re conveniently omitting are that:
- DbD officially supported NVIDIA filters for years.
- The overwhelming majority of players who use filters do so moderately. The examples on YouTube you’re referring to are just a loud minority.
- You can use so many things to “cheat” if your definition is so lax it includes using officially supported features. We should just delete the whole game and all hardware and software ever invented lest someone use any of it to cheat 🙏
- Show me any sort of official BHVR source that says they officially support the filters
- Again, you have failed to explain how, just because some people use them "moderately" makes it so we allow others to abuse them
- Again, in my example, a deaf or hard of hearing person downloading some kind of cheat to see survivor auras. Should we suddenly now allow people to use those cheats because a tiny minority are using them for accessibility purposes?
- Again, why are we crying out about accessibility and ignore the majority of the player base that is NOT playing on PC. So forget about those console players right? They don't get the accessibility options.
- A 3rd party program that modifies the game to give an unfair advantage over a player who is not using that 3rd party program is a pretty simple definition of a cheat.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787430#Comment_3787430
Trust me, as someone who is colourblind, the colourblind mode in this game simply does not help. Or, it does help, but it doesn't help enough, especially in comparison to what Nvidia + ReShade offer. And I can sob and beg and pray for better accessibility for everyone, but it took seven years for an FOV slider! I'll be in my fourties by the time this gets added.
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787430#Comment_3787430
The colorblind mode they have is NOT good enough some people don’t have good eyes to begin with. My friends retina is 50% smaller than normal and filters help a lot. So should I just tell him to give up?
“Sorry bro, I know filters have been working for you for years and you put hundreds of dollars in this game but looks like you’re SOL now!”
Revealing auras of survivors for hard of hearing players is such an insane strawman that doesn’t even remotely make sense so I’m just going to ignore that.
But hard of hearing players SHOULD be showed to download things to make hearing easier “which they can on PC”
The best option is to make it a feature for everyone but at the end of the day they aren’t. And the people who bought a PC for that sole reason should NOT have to give everything up now.
Sure, like i said, maybe it doesn't work for you, that is fine and understandable, but can you understand that the devs should instead add this as something that fixes it for ALL players instead of just expecting players to download a 3rd party program? You should be petitioning the devs to fix this problem for everyone.
Again, explain why the same logic doesn't apply to people who are deaf and hard of hearing and using cheats to see survivor auras for example.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787422#Comment_3787422
There are plenty of examples you can easily find on youtube of people using filters to modify the red glow for example to be able to see it in situations where they otherwise would not be able to
I literally called it 😭
So because SOME people don't use it to cheat, we should allow others to be able to use it to cheat?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787270#Comment_3787270
SOME PEOPLE are colorblind….
SOME PEOPLE have poor eyesight…
Until Bhvr has a slider for people with vision problems it is in fact not fair to certain people. They need to be allowed as they have been for YEARS.
There is a colorblind mode already in the game to deal with that.
Downloading something that modifies the game to deal with accessibility issues is not a proper solution to the problem.
Let me ask this, as someone who is hard of hearing, and plays killer a lot, should i be allowed to download a cheat that makes it so i can see survivor auras when they make noise? For example? After all, it would be for accessibility purposes.
Additionally, your "solution" is only accessible to a fraction of the player base on PC. Console players don't have access to it.
The better solution is instead to petition the devs to add those accessibility options available to ALL players regardless of platform.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787384#Comment_3787384
The proper solution is for you to petition BHVR about their colorblind mode and add more accessibility options if it isn't working for you, not use a 3rd party cheat.
BYE. It took BHVR seven years to add a search bar. We're not going to get these settings in any reasonable timeframe and you know it. So your interim solution basically boils down to "screw players with vision problems".
So should people who are deaf be allowed download a cheat as killer to show the aura of survivors because they aren't able to hear where they are? After all, they are doing it for accessibility purposes.
There are plenty of examples you can easily find on youtube of people using filters to modify the red glow for example to be able to see it in situations where they otherwise would not be able to.
You can brighten the game or increase the contrast to reduce the effect of darkness. There are literal killers and perks and even offerings designed to make it harder to find people that can be circumvented with the press of a button.
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@syain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787383#Comment_3787383
Explain to me exactly how using filters is cheating while keeping in mind Dead by Daylight had officially supported NVIDIA filters for years.
Well lets think about this for a second.
How does one access these filters? Is it an option in the game that i have access to?
Well no, so how do i get them?
I have to download a separate program that runs while i play the game.
Can a person who is playing on console access these filters?
Well no, because console players can't install that 3rd party program.
How do people normally cheat in online games?
Do they download a 3rd party program and modify their game in some way while it is running?
Can you explain to me how that they ARE NOT cheating when:
- Not every player can access them
- They give an advantage while playing the game vs other players who don't have them.
- They are modifying the game while it is running.
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@DNet89 said:
With the Hook Stages now 70 seconds will Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine be getting a buff to its numbers? It would have to be 40% increase to keep each stage at 50 seconds. Currently now it's 20% faster and that would be 58.3 seconds a stage
70÷1.2=58.3
70÷1.40=50
In general, the perk itself is really unhealthy, i would prefer it do something different in general like, some kind of small effect on its own, but then it makes every hook a scourge hook, or something. So if you run an all scourge build it becomes a good staple, similar to perks like thrill of the hunt or undying which are good when paired with other hexes.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787371#Comment_3787371
It's hilarious seeing the meltdowns in the other forums about his
You're right. Watching people be rightly upset they can no longer play the game because of legitimate accessibility issues is so funny. It's not as if vision problems be damned!
we all know most of the people complaining are not colorblind
Do we? Colour blindness is incredibly common. It affects 1/12 men. That's a huge chunk of the population.
The game has color blind modes, even if it doesn't help you, the fact remains that 99.9% of people using reshade are not doing it because "it makes the game look better" they are doing it because it gives them an advantage over players who don't use it.
The proper solution is for you to petition BHVR about their colorblind mode and add more accessibility options if it isn't working for you, not use a 3rd party cheat.
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@syain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787324#Comment_3787324
Sure. But you'd think such a drastic change in your game's anticheat (so much so that players are kicked out of lobbies by it for using a program that didn't cause any issues for over 3 years) should've been given more attention, no? At least a tweet? There's countless players who don't have NVIDIA graphics cards who use reshade and now just don't know if they're gonna get banned from the game and lose all their progress or not.
Stop cheating then?
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@ChaosWam said:
I think it's meant more for traversal and stealth approaches.
I've gotten some good value from it so far, though I do wish footsteps like the Xeno tunnels was added, basekit or as an addon.
Footsteps like that should be added in general to the game as an accessibility option for people who are hard of hearing.
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@イエローミント said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424894/nvidia-no-longer-supports-dead-by-daylight-with-8-2-0#latest
This issue has been affecting certain users and was reported during the PTB, yet it was not fixed in the official 8.2.0 version. The problem is caused by EAC, but how many users are facing this issue?I have been facing this issue since PTB 8.2.0, but even in the official release, the GF filter remains disabled due to EAC. I would like to hear about your experiences and opinions on this.
Oh noooo, not the filters.
I swear guys they just make the game look better….
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@Rugalraim said:
Wasn't nemesis supposed to have 3 zombies? My friends told me he would get another zombie. I had a match against him just recently but I could only find 2 zombies. Nothing what they said is true or am I wrong? Does the third zombie look the same? I
Where is the third zombie? I want to face more zombies. I seriously don't care about game balance just give us what we want so I can use my flashbang on them or bait the zombies and march in a conga line towards my friends for fun.
Your friends told you the wrong info. There was never any announcement that said he would get more zombies.
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@Hawkinss said:
I got accused of using hacks because a Killer couldn't hook me in one of the Yamaoka Estate maps. Either the hook was bugged or there's a general hook bug going on in the game.
I wanted to know if anyone has seen this happening before.It is possible someone else in the game was cheating. I have seen streamers encounter this very cheat and been a victim of it myself. It basically does something to make it literally impossible to hook people and they can turn it off and on throughout the match.
The problem with cheats in general, is that it is not really possible for me as a player to determine who is doing it or who is responsible. For example, a cheater could potentially do things like, increase YOUR movement speed and make it appear as if you are cheating. Or they could instantly heal you, or do other things.
Then there is the problem of people queueing with cheaters. Perhaps someone queues up with a cheating knowingly, that cheater cheats, and but they themselves are not cheating. This could be guilt by association. And since it is not possible to tell who is partied with who, it becomes impossible. You could in theory even have a survivor cheater, who is doing something to benefit the killer to make them appear as a cheater and get them banned. It really is just impossible to tell.
So, when i encounter something i suspect is a cheat as either killer or survivor, i start recording. And if i get some concrete evidence of it, i report every other player in the game, and then forward the information to BHVR. I would hope BHVR has some sort of way to determine which player is the one doing the cheating, and they could easily see for example if someone is queueing with this cheater over and over again, to determine who they need to punish.
But as a player, it is impossible for me to do so. In those instances, as a player, what i will do is simply inform the team that someone was cheating, and that i'll upload it for BHVR to look at, and that if they are knowingly queueing with the cheater, that they probably should stop because they will get banned along with them. Because there is always the last possibility of, someone is queueing with a cheater, but they don't even realize that person is cheating. I have personally experienced this in other games. For example back when i played Rust, a friend of mine partnered up with me and invited a couple of randos that neither of us knew. One of the randos was using an aimbot, and as such we all got punished. After an appeal to the mods i got unbanned, but it was still a rough time.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783146#Comment_3783146
the best that dbd is giving you is 2.5% regression. After that we got another 2.5%. Looking at track record, you'll get a another 2.5% at best.
I doubt they'll do anything at this point, but if the game is balanced around killers taking slowdown they need to offer slowdown perks without buying DLC, or more preferably, they need to just build it into the basekit instead and nerf or rework the perks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783752#Comment_3783752
A pity escape after completing the objective, soso…
If those Perks dont work, the Kill is basically guaranteed, unless the Killer plays really badly. And for some reason Killer players think they deserve a Kill, because it is Endgame.
Its not a "pity escape" for completing the objective. The survivor got caught and is on the hook. The "objective" of the survivor is not to complete the gens, the objective is to escape, so the survivors have not yet "completed their objective"
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I see him quite often (compared to other Killers at least). And the changes to his Scamper were excellent. Players who are good with Chucky got Buffs, players who only used Scamper for really cheap Heats got Nerfs.
So if you are good with Chucky, you just won, if you were bad, you lost. As it should be.
You can't curve with the power at all so its really not even skill based.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Indifferent on that one. On the one hand, I understand why it was done that those Perks dont work in Endgame.
On the other hand, I feel that Killers really should not think that they deserve some pity Kills just because they were losing the game and let it happen that 5 Gens were done AND the Survivors opened the Exit Gate.
But then again DS in Endgame is basically a guaranteed escape (even tho more deserved than a guaranteed Kill in Endgame).
That is where your logic is wrong.
It is not a "pity" kill. In order to get into that state, a survivor had to be hooked to begin with, so it is now on the survivors to get the survivor out, or escape without them, it is not a pity kill, if anything those perks working endgame are a pity escape.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783171#Comment_3783171
I like how the OP and others can't just admit that they want a guaranteed 4k in a 2v1.
The devs have clearly stated multiple times that survivors "hiding" and intentionally not completing their objective for a long period of time is, and i quote: "Not participating in normal gameplay" and is considered "holding the game hostage" just as body blocking a survivor in the corner can be. So don't blame OP, blame the devs.
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@Predated said:
Already predicting this because more and more survivors are legitimately getting tired of it.
So 85% of games:
Pop, pain res, grim embrace. Almost a neccesity on low mobility killers, removes all interactive options for survivor on high mobility killers.
So a quick chaser like blight, even if survivors do 3 gens seperately, pain res applies to the highest gen, block all gens when they run off, pop once its unblocked.
The counterplay to this? Hiding. Waiting till the killer has left, finish a gen, hide again. No chases, no running around the map. Just hiding.
I miss the days when gen regression was mutually exclusive with Ruin and Pop like Exhaustion perks. Cant wait to see regression perks become mutually exclusive again. Individually buffed, but exclusivePop is horrible again, so you shouldn't worry about that.
But, try playing a few games as a killer and using ZERO gen defense perks, then try playing a few games with same killer but running 4 gen defense perks, and notice the difference in the types of games.
The zero gen defense games you are going to feel like you are pressured constantly, and can't have a single moment of rest because the gens just simply go too fast. And against an even slightly competent team, you will probably lose.
The games with 4 gen defense are far more relaxed and chill and you are able to take it slow and make more mistakes.
Generally the well balanced play is to have 2 perks for gen defense. And this is part of the problem of the game in general. The game is balanced around killers taking gen defense perks, but oh look, there are no non-dlc gen defense perks. Really, they should do to gen defense what they do for killer perks, nerf the perks, and buff the basekit. This would lead to far more variety and perks that killers would take from game to game.
Imagine instead a world where:
- Basekit gen kick is 10%
- Basekit regression is 200%
- Basekit corrupt on gens and totems that lasts 20-30 seconds that deactivates when a suvivor takes a health state (just enough so non mobility killers can physically cross the map to)
Then imagine that same world where:
- Call of brine is probably fine in this world
- Corrupt intervention is reworked or nerfed to add a little extra time to the basekit corrupt, upping it to say 60 seconds, or maybe it blocks all totems and gens for that 30 seconds, so maybe trapper or hag can spend a little more time setting things up.
- Deadlock is nerfed down to 15 seconds, or even reworked entirely
- Eruption is probably fine in this world, but if not the regression could be lowered
- Grim embrace is nerfed down to 8 seconds for each token and then the 4th is only 20 seconds, or even reworked completely.
- Pentimento is nerfed to 20% repair speeds, or maybe remove the repair speed penalty and make it do something else
- Hex ruin is probably fine in this world but it could be tweaked if not
- Merciless storm is probably fine in this world
- Oppression is probably fine in this world.
- Overcharge is probably fine in this world or could be reworked to not be as punishing to newer players
- pop can probably be reworked to just do like 5% of extra gen kick on a hook.
- Pain resonance could be reworked to be 10%, but maybe shows the survivors location now, so its more about finding the most worked on gen rather than regressing it.
- Surge is probably fine in this world but could be tweaked if needed
- Thanataphobia needs a rework for other reasons but is probably fine in this world
- Thrilling tremors is more of an information perk but is probably fine in this world
- Undone is probably fine in this world (but probably just needs a rework in general)
You get the idea, these are all just ideas for the perks, but in general, you nerf a bunch of the high power gen defense perks to be like half as effected as they are, the bad perks can probably stay bad, or you could even just rework all the gen defense perks, but now the basekit is stronger.
You'd start to see far more interesting and varied builds from killer to killer and playstyle to playstyle.
I would also suggest doing something similar on the survivor side, such as:
- Effectively make camping literally impossible, not just nerfed, but impossible to do
- Effectively make tunneling literally impossible to do
Then rework all the second chance/anti-tunnel/anti-camp perks to do something more interesting.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780804#Comment_3780804
He might not have anyone really give up. No matter how mean I play I never have those survivors who give up. It's only after I have already won so giving up does not affect kill rates much at all in my experience.
I personally experience the opposite, in probably 50-60% of my games, someone gives up immediately and kills themself on hook. This happens as both sides for me.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm not necessarily actually suggesting this myself, it's just something I've had on my mind for a while and I want to know what others might think.
Having more dull totems spawn by default would be something that could benefit both sides, and by the same token, the benefits for one side could easily be seen as a detriment to the other. Both sides win, and both sides lose, hypothetically.
Survivors would have more totems to proc Inner Strength, Clairvoyance, and Overzealous (though this one is already infinite, potentially, but still). They'd also have more choice of spots for boons, making the variance in where those boons might want to go a little easier to navigate.
Killers, on the other hand, would have more freedom in pairing the nonstandard hexes like Plaything with more traditional hexes, as well as Undying's dull totem aura read being more potentially useful. They'd also get more passive slowdown from any survivor that decides to go interact with the new dulls for their own perks.
What do we think? Would there be a problem with adding a few more totems to the map by default? Would it make those perks all more appealing, on both sides?
I don't think they should necessarily add more totems, but what i would like to see is them is tie totems to a secondary objective that survivors have to do. Something like, each dull totem lowers repair speed by say 10%. That way at the start of the game survivors are encouraged to do bones. I'd probably couple this with a reduction in the time it takes to repair a gen, maybe down to say 70 or 75 seconds depending on how it all works.
This could also double as a patch where they massively buff all the bad hex perks, because if survivors are doing bones to repair gens faster, you can bet your hexes will get cleansed more quickly, so they can warrant a buff.
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@Ayodam said:
Camping and tunneling, two legitimate play styles, are not artificially inflating kill rates. Suggesting otherwise is akin to saying using moris artificially inflates kill rates. These are play styles killers have access to, BHVR has continuously legitimated, and will be a part of the game until the servers shut down.
I think you are missing the point i'm making.
I'm not saying they are not legitimate strategies. What i'm saying is that the strategies themselves are not actually that good most of the time against survivors who know how to deal with them. What i notice in most of my games is if the killer comes back to the hook after a survivor is unhooked, the unhooked guy often just stands there, lets the killer down them so they can kill themselves on hook to get out of the match. Or if the killer starts camping, they just start trying to kobe and let themselves die.
Let's say hypothetically BHVR released a killer that does the following:
- Moves at 1.0 m/s
- Increases the time it takes to repair generators by 1000%
- Increases the time it takes to open the exit gate by 1000%
- Survivors can permanently see the aura of the killer
Obviously such a killer would be really easy to beat, they move slower than survivors, and you are gonna take forever to down them if you even CAN land a hit. But, this killer would make a 90 second (1 minute 30 second) gen take 15 minutes to do. Meaning if all 4 survivors do separate gens, all they will really do is spend 15 minutes each on a gen, and then another say, 5-10 minutes on the 5th gen, then another 3.5 minutes opening the exit gate. However, this would also result in the most boring match of DBD for everyone involved.
This would result in an extremely boring 30+ minute match. Now i would imagine that survivors would often not like to play against said killer, so what they might do, is just throw themselves at the killer, so they can kill themselves on hook and quickly move to the next game. The reality is, this killer would be massively "underpowered" in the sense that, when played correctly against, survivors should 4 man escape literally every time.
So lets say we play 100 matches with this killer, and in 80 of them, the survivors just throw themselves at the killer so they can quickly move on to the next game, and in 20 of the matches, the survivors properly play out the game and get 4 escapes. This results in the killer getting 320 kills while survivors escape 80 times over the course of these 100 matches. This would then show that this killer has an 80% kill rate, making them one of the "strongest" killers ever released in the game.
THIS is ultimately my point, is that survivors giving up when they don't like something, or when they find it boring, or they don't like the killer, or they get quickly outplayed in the first chase, or they are trying to do a tome challenge to like, stun the killer, and they find out they are playing against a nurse or something who is very hard to stun, so they just give up and move on to the next match as fast as possible.
What this does is massively inflate kill rates. Sometime in the next few weeks, i'll be doing an experiment to see how often these types of things actually occur in my games as both sides to see if kill rates are actually being inflated.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781832#Comment_3781832
I mean the distance traveled at double speed while rushing easily makes up for that. 9.2m/s-4.6m/s = 4.6m/s faster traveled in 2.5-2.34s = 0.16s, 0.16*4.6=0.736m. So as long as you travel barely less than even a single meter, you break even, and any further distance of a rush saves time. Not only that, but you recover rush tokens while breaking pallets, presumably due to a bug, since you don't on the hitting a Survivor CD.
You also have to factor in that you have to bounce first before you can do it. So you need to a be a bit further away for it to become valuable.
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@mizark3 said:
Even treating him like a Bubba or Demo with a faster pallet shred is enough to provide enough pressure on the Survivors, completely ignoring his 9.2 speed for map mobility.
That is actually slower though. Breaking a pallet with his power takes 2.5 seconds, a default kick is 2.34. Maybe if you are far away from it it might be worth it, but that scenario is going to be pretty rare as most of the time its going to happen at a loop.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
If people relied on an exploit that hard to the point that getting hits now is considered "impossible", your simply just bad at Blight, I'm going to be extremely honest here, either actually learn how to master him or play a different killer.
Notice the part in my post where i said this?
But really anyone know how blight is supposed to actually use his power when it is so easy to dodge?
So i would kindly ask that you refrain from being toxic and insulting me, and instead offering assistance and answering the question. I'm trying to learn here what i might be doing wrong as blight since his nerfs have made his power very weak in chase and he just feels like an m1 killer to me at this point with quick map traversal.
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@joel84 said:
and
I am soooo glad when this nerdy mode is over. I haven't played DBD in a good week now because I didn't feel like waiting in the lobby, and I don't think I missed anything big. For me, Chaos Shuffle is the most fun and best modifier, even if the gens are just flying.
By the way i play 50-50, not that anyone claims that I am a Survivor Main because of my statements. I understand that 2v8 is popular with many. But for me it was the most boring DBD experience in years
Im sry 😔
Yeah, losing because i didn't get the right perks and my opponents luckily did by pure RNG is so fun.
The problem is that the game is designed and balanced around killers having slowdown perks, so when killers can't bring slowdown perks, what do you think happens against even slightly competent survivors?
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@RenoPro said:
The game can't be balanced around them and was not created with them in mind( all the visual perk prove it). How many perks where getting nerfed bc squad would abuse them? Adrenaline for example.
This is not a competitive game and should be balanced around the solo Q-Killer experience.
is not a punishment for playing with your friend is just a balance to make the game fair for all.
This is not the proper way to deal with this problem, there are 3 ways that would be good, each with their own tradeoffs, on how to deal with this problem, that would not affect game balance of solo vs SWF.
- Make voice chat a thing, allow survivors to communicate with each other by default. This won't perfectly close the gap but it would significantly strengthen solo queue communication. Then, killers can be buffed accordingly to deal with the fact that coms is the more normal thing.
- Remove SWF and force solo queue only. I think this would be extremely unlikely, but in theory it is possible, you can play with your friends if you want using the custom KYF mode and SWF will no longer be a thing.
- Separate out the queues, create a ranked queue that is 3-4 man SWF only, and a solo queue that only allows duos, and ensures that survivors are either 4 solos, or 2 solos and 1 duo. Then they can balance each mode accordingly. For example, in CS:GO, the ranked mode has a different economy and balance than the casual mode where you get free money and armor for just playing.
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Can confirm it does not work if you don't escape, even if you collect the shards and use the portal.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780778#Comment_3780778
There is a minor problem of actual stealth distracting the Killer being caught in the crossfire here. If I am such a god at stealth, that the Killer checks all the basement lockers while my team is pumping gens, and I'm within TR the entire time, I AM progressing the game for my side.
I would have a proximity pause (not TR, since stealth Killers exist) on the timer if the Killer is nearby, for those actual stealth plays distracting the Killer. A giga-rat wanting to keep the timer paused but not doing any of the above actions would have to full-on run behind the Killer to stay in TR, which would leave Scratch Marks and be enough for revealing them.
You could simply have this mechanic not trigger until a survivor or 2 is dead.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780804#Comment_3780804
Forfeit is still a lose.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780814#Comment_3780814
These arnt clinical trails. This is well presented and should be commended. 99% of the player base don't give data like this.
Only safe bets are stats released by devs and those can only be averages, not individual experiences based on luck or skill or killer choice.
In the OP they did include disconnects, but there is a big difference between a "disconnect" and "giving up"
Sure, forfeiting is technically a "loss" but its inflating the kill numbers. If you have a single survivor rage quit out of the match because they don't like the killer, its very likely going to be a 3-4k, that is massively inflating the kill numbers. Lets imagine a scenario where someone plays 100 games as lets say "Freddy Fazbear". Obviously this is a hyperbolic example as freddy does not exist (yet) and the numbers are big, but i'm illustrating why excluding forfeits is important when looking at this kind of data
- In those 80 of those games, someone immediately gives up, and dies on hook on purpose, leading to the killer to get 4 kills.
- In the other 20 games, the survivors play it out, and all 4 escape and the killer gets 0 hooks.
This results in the killer getting 320 kills out of a possible 400, which would show that Freddy Fazbear has a kill rate of 80%. Now, in this scenario, do we think that this means that Freddy Fazbear is overpowered in some way? Or maybe underpowered?
What can we conclude? Nothing really because the data is muddied by all the survivors giving up.
- We can't really conclude that the survivors giving up are doing it because of Freddy Fazbear, there's no way to tell, all we see is that survivors are giving up frequently, we don't know if that is higher or lower than the average (in my personal experience this has gone up MASSIVELY since they remove deranking regardless of who, or how i play)
- We can't really conclude that Freddy Fazbear is overpowered, because the kills are exclusively in matches where survivors just immediately gave up.
- We can't really conclude the Freddy Fazbear is underpowered, because the sample size is so small of the games that are actually played.
What can we glean from it at least? That Freddy Fazbear has a high rate of survivors giving up, but that Freddy Fazbear is probably underpowered. In this case, it stands to reason that Freddy Fazbear is both:
- Causing some sort of issue that makes survivors not want to play against him
- underpowered
So, if this person played 100 games as trapper, and in 80 of them someone immediately gave up, that doesn't mean that "Trapper is fine" or "killer is fine" because of that, all it means is that in those 100 games they killed that many players, but doesn't show any CONTEXT for those kills. Context is important here, and is precisely why survivors giving up and DCing should not be counted in these statistics when we are trying to determine if something is "fine".
Giving up a match, and dying in a match through normal gameplay are 2 different statistics that show 2 different things. Giving up frequently shows that people are just refusing to play against that killer, and dying in a regular match through normal gameplay is indicating how strong that killer actually is.
EDIT: Changed the example killer to Freddy Fazbear to make sure we aren't biasing ourselves in the discussion here.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780773#Comment_3780773
Why? There has been over 1000 winstreak as killer?
This is very good data and to say it's not is disingenuous. It is just to be taken with a grain of salt as there are many variables like player gametime, mmr ect.
Because if you read the post, the person clearly stated that they "played really mean".
They didn't say how many times survivors just immediately gave up. Playing "mean" often makes survivors just ragequit and nope out of the match as fast as possible, especially since there is literally 0 penalty to doing so now that deranking is no longer a thing. In fact, from personal experience, i can say that probably half of my matches, someone just gives up as soon as they see whatever killer i'm playing and don't like it, or they get outplayed, or the first chase is "Too quick" and i think that is what is inflating kill rates to such a high level.
I plan on doing a similar experiment as well soon, and will include how many times survivors give up, as well as recording all of the games.
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@supersonic853 said:
Might be a weird title. But it's the best I could come up with with 2 gens left on red forest with 2 survivors not touching either for over 30 minutes as I walked around looking for them. I don't know if they were using items to prevent themselves from ever getting crows since the one I did find was in a corner away from everything else. Now I get it 2 gens with 2 survivors is probably not the easiest to come back from. But I did not play in a way that could be perceived really as unfair. First survivor I downed just wanted to go next (like usual). And the 2 survivors let their other teammate die on hook I guess because he wasn't grouped with them or something. So to spite me for some reason, they just hard stealth. I get it's reportable eventually but it's fairly boring when it happens. It could be nice to have something where if a survivor doesn't do over 10% of a gen for like 5 minutes or something they get max AFK crows until they actually work on a gen for long enough. Other ideas I've seen is aura reveal or Killer instinct. Just something that says the "hiding" has gone on long enough lol. It's like the opposite of 3 genning since the survivors don't even plan to do the gens. They are just keeping you here as long as they can.
Anyone else have a stance on this and what it could look like?
The simplest thing they can do is if survivors don't do something to progress the game after say, 90 seconds, I.E.
- Be chased
- Save a survivor
- Heal
- COMPLETE a totem/boon
- Do a gen for at least 5 seconds
Then they start to get crows, that way the survivors can't hide forever without doing something and eventually you can find them either through the crows, or naturally through them doing gens and making noise.
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@Ayodam said:
You could run Whispers, Spies, or any other number of perks that detect immersed survivors. The response to survivors who face uncomfortable playstyle is always to “run X perk.” Apply that to your killer games as well. 🤷🏽♀️
Actually you can report them, because this is considered holding the game hostage.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3780005#Comment_3780005
I understand what you're suggesting, and to some extent we agree, but if I could add to this: Trying out bold new things isn't free. Any change that we spend time programming, adding animation, art, SFX or any other work to that goes to the PTB and gets scrapped is time that is effectively wasted. That time could have gone into other improvement that would have actually gone live.
The reality is there's only so much time to work on changes between each update. We pack as much as we can into each one and there's always more we want to do.
Lately we've taken to doing smaller incremental changes to a larger number of Perks and Killers most of the time rather than large ones to only one or two. There's a couple reasons why we do this:
- People who use those Killers/Perks get more frequent changes without having to wait for a large scale rework which may be pushed back repeatedly until there's enough room for it.
- It allows us to see how a set of balance changes affects things before committing to further changes and risking over buffing or over nerfing something. (For context, the PTB does not use ranked matchmaking and people take time to adjust, so we can only learn so much.)
- Smaller bundles of changes tend to be safer and have less risk of being reverted, meaning more changes actually make it to the live game.
To the last point in the original post, having fewer things that need to change between PTB and live is a good thing. It means that they're in a safe enough spot that we can monitor how they play out in the live game. I want to stress the fact that nothing that goes live is final, everything is subject to change if needed. On the flipside, pushing a ton of changes to the PTB and having to backtrack most of them before they go live is a bad thing for development because it takes time and resources to a) make those changes in the first place, and b) rework or revert those changes before the live release. Both take development time away from other positive changes we could be making. It's also worth noting that the window between PTB to live is fairly small due to certification, so we don't have the luxury of making massive changes between the two.
I absolutely get the sentiment, and there are times where we test larger changes without intending to push them live. But our goal is to get as close to the target as possible with the first try, then fine tune from there.
Ok, but why do simple numbers changes take forever?
Why can't you look at something and see its too weak, and pump up its numbers a bit, or vice versa for things that are too strong.
Yes, not everything that needs changes falls in this category, sometimes things need to be reworked. But those reworks take forever, wouldn't it be better to nerf or buff something by a few numbers while a rework happens? It literally takes 5 seconds to do.
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@WashYourHands said:
It's uncounterable and not heathy for the game
The problem is not this perk combination, it is a bug that has been in the game for several patches now.
Previously, as a killer, if you picked up a survivor and faced a wall, you would be fine. However, there is a bug right now that causes other survivors to not have collision with the killer when they pick up a survivor. This means that a survivor can run INSIDE the killer and drop the flashbang, making it so even if you are facing the wall, it still goes off and blinds you.
This also has an impact at pallets to prevent saves. There are many cases for example where say, you pick up a survivor on one side of a pallet, body blocking a survivor from coming to the pallet for the save, forcing them to go around the front side and drop it, but if you know they are behind you, they won't have time.
If they fix this bug, it will not only fix the pallet save issue, but also properly "nerfs" this background player + flashbang combo, because you will once again be able to properly look at a wall to prevent yourself from getting blinded.
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@gilthfc said:
Is it me or does the huntress need to be removed from the 2v8.
Limit their hatchets to 3 or an idea like the same killer cant be picked every game. Literally 10 games in a row ive come across the huntress and counting. So boring
There is statistically a 60% chance that the killer in the game is NOT huntress, and that is assuming all of them equally have a 20% pick rate, the reality is they do not.
If we look at nightlight and view pick rates for the 5 killers, than normalize them for being the only 5 choices, we have these pick rates. (rounded, so may not equal 100%)
- Huntress - 34.8%
- Hillbilly - 20.1%
- Wraith - 16.5%
- Nurse - 14.5%
- Trapper - 14.2%
Factoring that it, we can see that the odds of NOT getting a huntress in your match is:
65.3% the first killer is not huntress
58.4% the second killer is not huntress.
Adding those up, there is a 38% chance that huntress is NOT in your game.
This means in 5 games played, you'll see her 3 times.
This is also assuming that the pick rates for these modes are equal to what they are for the normal game, which is probably not true. There is no data to show it, but anecdotally, i'd imagine billy has a significantly lower pick rate, due to him being the "support killer" and much harder to play with random other teammates and needing high coordination. So again, anecdotally, i'd imagine the odds of NOT seeing huntress in your game is probably closer to 30%.
The point though? This will get significantly better the next time 2v8 comes out and they add more killers to it. You'll stop seeing the same killers over and over again. You need to remember that with only 5 killers to choose from, and 2 killers every game, you are going to see the same killers ALOT more than you do in the regular game.
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@Tyler3 said:
You're probably thinking "what?". Hear me out. I made a post yesterday:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/423596/how-do-you-escape-in-this-situation
And it got people a little riled up about something. 'Are survivors a team?'
@Ayodam commented this:
"Survivors are not a team like in Apex Legends, Overwatch, or similar team-focused games. They’re four players with the same goal. This is why why survivors are graded individually at the end of each trial (MMR and pipping). It’s why survivors are rewarded individually at the end of each trial (blood points & EXP awarded). The devs have repeatedly stated this; survivors can help one another or play for themselves and both are absolutely legitimate strategies this game. Both can lead to individual victory, which is what survivors are graded on and rewarded for by every available metric we have.
What survivors are, are resources for one another. Just like pallets and perks that can be used to help individual escape efforts. At the end of the day, to spell it out plainly, teams profit and lose together; not individually. When you die in trial I’m not punished as I glide through the exit gates. I’ll gain MMR and pip regardless of what happened to you. You will earn less BPs and may not pip at all. When depipping was a thing, you might have that happen to you. But these consequences that you face wouldn’t affect me or any other survivor who escaped at all.
Killer mains have this xK = win or loss nonsense. And maybe for you all it works. But it doesn’t apply to survivors. Survivors don’t win or lose collectively, per the metrics BHVR has established in their game. For survivors trials are technically a ([1v1v1v1)] v1."
Ultimately, most survivors are out for themselves and everybody else is expendable. A survivor, if they wanted, could drop pallets on teammates, purposefully fail skill checks and even blind other survivors with flashbangs to try to get them killed, all so that they can escape. In a way, they'd be working with the killer. Does this mean they're on the killer's team?
In certain scenarios, a survivor's biggest threat is other survivors. Like stated above, Trials are technically a 1v1v1v1v1. At the end of the day, the survivors' goal is to escape, no matter what. Even if that means getting your teammates killed doing so. This all begs the question, are survivors a team?
And hearin lies literally the entire problem with the balance of the game.
The game is DESIGNED such that survivors are NOT a team, they are 4 individuals with a similar goal (escape) that need to work together to achieve that goal. But, if you have a survivor on a hook, and you are all powering the last gen and hitting the gate, nothing says you have to go save that survivor. This is fine if this is the only way the game can be played.
Enter SWF - SWF by definition ARE a team, and because of the fact that the game is designed and balanced around the survivors NOT being a team, actually BEING a team gives a MASSIVE advantage to the survivors.
This becomes extremely obvious once you take a look at the perks that survivors have access to. 40% of them (last time i checked around a year ago, its probably a bit more or a bit less TODAY, but the point still stands a SIGNIFICANT number of them) simply give you information about what your teammates are doing, or give your teammates information about what you are doing.
If the game was designed such that survivors were a TEAM, you would see far less "show the aura of the gen i'm working on to other survivors"
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@cruelb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778717#Comment_3778717
Says the 'mostly' killer main
oooo scary.
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@cruelb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773412#Comment_3773412
says the killer main.
I do a spread of probably 60/40 killer/survivor.
Depends on the time of day i play, but i generally avoid killer in the morning and survivor late at night. It also depends on the challenges i have going on for rifts and such as well. If i get a dual challenge i pick the side that it is easier to complete (I.E. i play killer for the "hook X survivors or safely unhook X survivors" since they can usually be completed in 1 game as a killer whereas doing that as survivor requires me to throw the match.)
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@Sngfun said:
I wouldnt worry about clown, the killers people believe are hard to add are those whose mechanics kind of contradict themselves.
Here, I made a tierlist and explained it in my post!:
People keep saying plague and legion wouldn't happen because they would be annoying but keep forgetting that they significantly changed billy's power to make him not instadown. They could do something similar to these killers to turn them into more of a support killer rather than one that injures everyone constnatly.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774040#Comment_3774040
So fun fact, this is actually how it works already. If you can get an aura read for more than 10 seconds (I think there's only a few very niche ways to do this, like Nurse's Bad Man's Keepsake add-on, or Legion's Stylish Sunglasses, or combining Larry's Crew Manifest with Lethal Pursuer) then it will take 2 tokens, because it only blocks the 10 second duration, not the entire instance. It just so happens that there's not much aura reading that lasts for 10 seconds or more.
Not quite, it blocks instances, so for example if something causes your aura to be read for only 2 seconds, it consumes a token.
I'm saying that the tokens instead are just duration based period. So you just get some amount of aura blocking based on time instead of tokens.