Reinami
Reinami
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764729#Comment_3764729
It only indicates a perceived problem or imbalance.
Players dodge high prestige survivors in lobbies all the time because there's a perception among some that a high prestige level is indicative of skill (which of course is not true).
The lobby holds back most information from players, so the little information it does give is interpreted as being important simply for being shown, and rather than see it as "oh, they love that character" they see it as "oh, the game is warning me they're super skilled" (and that makes sense: one of those things is meaningless and the other is pertinent information in a PvP game). If SWF information is shown, then that will also be deemed important simply for the fact that it's shown when so little else is, and even people with no bias against SWF may feel compelled to dodge. As survivor, I judge other survivors based on whether or not they play as Meg. Is that really valid information on which to determine skill level? Well, actually, that might be, my worst teammates are always Megs. But the other points stand.
Perception is important though.
Why do you think that players PERCEIVE that there is an imbalance?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763731#Comment_3763731
I'm not talking about killing yourself on hook
Again, there is a difference between "being bad" and "intentionally ruining the game"
For example, if they removed killing yourself on hook, and we are talking about "well people will just give up anyway"
If you see a player who has 1000 hours, who played 5 matches in a row, where they got <2000 bloodpoints, there is probably something going on there. But if you see someone who is doing that, and they have played the game for 2 hours, there is obviously an indication there that it is simply a new player. Even the worst players in the game who only last 5-10 seconds in a chase and get hard tunneled out are still going to get at least a 4-5k bloodpoints and be in the match for 3-4 minutes.
The point is, there are very obvious telltale signs you can go by, without punishing people for being "Bad"
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@Ulfberto said:
bcs then killers would dodge all of em?
I would argue that if that is true, then it would indicate there is a problem or imbalance in regards to SWF vs Solos, would it not?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763101#Comment_3763101
ban and punish players for playing badly?
If "griefing" is bannable (which it already is) they could just run around the game doing nothing and not even dropping a single sweat during chases. Good luck proving they are throwing the match
There's a difference between "being bad" and intentionally ruining games as a pattern of behavior.
For example, the act of just killing yourself on hook. Obviously such a system could be automated so that if someone is new at the game, it doesn't punish them, because maybe they just don't know. But if someone with 3000 hours is killing themself on hook 5 games in a row, it stands to reason that that player is just ruining games.
In LoL for example, if a player is new, and dies 20 times in a game, it isn't going to punish you. But if you regularly go 0/20 in 5, 10, 15+ games, and you have thousands of hours and people are reporting you for feeding, obviously something is going on here.
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@Peanits said:
We definitely see the frustration it causes and have shared it with the team, and we agree that it doesn't feel great to have teammates abandon you. I'm afraid I don't have anything more concrete to reveal at the moment, but I'd like to be open about it regardless.
It's a tricky problem to tackle since even if the option was removed, there are other ways to quickly get out of the match, such as running to the Killer after being unhooked. Ultimately if someone refuses to play the rest of the match, we can't force them (in a literal sense, they could walk away from their system and still leave the team one player down).
That's not to say that it can't help, of course - making it more inconvenient can be the nudge some people need to finish out the match - though it wouldn't get rid of it entirely.
Hopefully this sheds a little light on it, and please by all means keep the suggestions coming!
Why can't you just do what other games do and ban/punish players for doing that?
LoL, DotA, CS etc all ban people for "feeding". You even have an option in the report menu for "working with the enemy" already. Why can't you just enforce that?
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757040#Comment_3757040
Not really, with Plague you can choose to cleanse and heal or not to, so you are left with a tactic against her.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757041#Comment_3757041
That makes no sense. Considering he can already just put you in a cage without it undoing your perks' powers. It's as effective as not carrying you, but allows for counterplay.
It makes perfect sense, cages are not hooks. And no hook perks (for either side) work with cages. If PH cages someone, you don't get any scourge hooks, you don't get pop, you don't get bbq, you don't get any perks that are activated with a hook. Similarly, survivors do not either.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756052#Comment_3756052
If that is the case average killers would reach higher mmr than they should based on their kill rate of 60% and survivors would drop to lower mmr with escape rate 40%. Logical would be to balance the mmr as well to this so 2K should be loss for killer. Because in time this would cause issues to matchmaking.
Talk to the devs, that is confirmed how the system works.
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@kosaba11 said:
I just did a match where I was playing Vecna, and I catch the Kate and put her on hook. Immediately after, both of the Sables in the match gave up - immediately. They let themselves be caught and then killed themselves on hook. They didn't even finish a gen. Like, why even play if you're just going to give up immediately?
This is what happens when there is no penalty for doing so.
After they took away depipping, it became even worse. Why would anyone spend the effort to play out a game that is going poorly? If you just give up really quick, you can move on to the next one, your mmr goes down, and your next match is easier.
What they need to do is crack down on this type of behavior and start punishing people for it like they do in LITERALLY EVERY OTHER MULTIPLAYER GAME ON EARTH.
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@DH3206 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755350#Comment_3755350
I never said that we must balance the game around average soloQ players. Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. I just said that a lot of players (mostly soloQ) don't know what most killer perks do and you can't expect people to know every counter to every perk.
I also don't get why you have to put in a random killer in your reply to me, I didn't even mention that killer or any killer.
Because, i pointed out that this perk has a very simple and easy counter that anyone can do, it takes maybe 10-15 seconds tops, and doing so makes it so the killer effectively has 2 perks the entire game.
Your response was immediately "but average solo q players can't do that"
So my question to you is. Do you think this perk in discussion needs a nerf despite having such a simple and effective counter simply because "the average player" apparently is unable to do that for some reason?
If that is the case, then your belief on game balance must simply be, that you balance the game around the average player, and not what happens at high mmr. If that is the case, then by extension you MUST also believe that nurse needs massive buffs because she is by far one of the worst killers in the game, and pretty much has been that way since her release.
My point is, you cannot hold the beliefs that weave is OP because of average players, and also that nurse doesn't need massive buffs because average players are so bad at her. If you want to hold these beliefs together, then you are simply biased.
Basically, in terms of game balance there are 3 ways you can look at it.
- You balance the game around low level players
- You balance the game around average level players
- You balance the game around high level players
Most people agree that you don't balance the game around low level players (basically the ones who bought this game a couple of days ago). So the debate is, do you balance for high level, or average level players?
And, per the data that BHVR releases, if you believe that you should balance the game around average players, then by DEFINITION you MUST also believe that nurse needs MASSIVE buffs, because her kill rate is often below 50%. Which is significant because the devs balance for a 60% kill rate.
But, if you believe that the game should be balanced around HIGH LEVEL players, then you MUST also believe, that nurse probably needs nerfs, but also, that the vast VAST majority of the killers in this game are simply not viable. As in, there are probably like 4 viable killers at this point.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755512#Comment_3755512
Dbd kill rate is 60% so 2K is loss for mmr. You are peforming under average so your mmr should drop.
That's not how mmr works.
MMR sees the game not as a 1v4 but as 4 1v1s. An escape through a gate is a win as survivor, and a killer is a win as a killer, and escaping through the hatch or bleeding out is a draw.
So in a game of 4 survivors:
- Survivor 1 escapes
- Survivor 2 dies
- Survivor 3 dies
- Survivor 4 escapes through the hatch
- Survivor 1 gains mmr, and the killer loses an equal amount of mmr
- Survivor 2 loses mmr and the killer gains an equal amount of mmr
- Survivor 3 loses mmr and the killer gains an equal amount of mmr
- Survivor 4 does not gain or lose mmr, nor does the killer
Thus this game would be seen as the killer winning twice, losing once, and drawing once.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
As a survivor, what do you consider a win in the below list:
- You get out of the match alive.
- Your teammate gets out alive.
- your teammate gets out alive thanks to your sacrifice so he could escape.
- you and everyone get out alive.
As a killer:
- You sacrifice all 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 3 of the 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 2 of the 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 1 of the 4 survivors
Unlike the devs, i do not believe the kills = skill. Thus i look at hooks for both sides, therefore..
- 1-3 hooks = big survivor win/big killer loss
- 4-5 hooks = survivor win/killer loss
- 6-7 hooks = draw
- 8-9 hooks = killer win/survivor loss
- 10-12 hooks = big killer win/big survivor loss
Survivors win and lose as a team. Kills and escapes are completely irrelevant.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
Yeah it's not really that serious though, swf aren't escaping at a rate FAR above solo que and that's a literal fact. Playing against comms isn't some disadvantage my friend, of course they are more coordinated which is what the game truly requires when playing survivor, no one wants to play solo que where their teammates quit constantly, don't do gens, give up on first hook, etc.
The point is not every comm team is team eternal playing for a tournament. Most people just want to vibe out with their friends and not deal with the pains of solo que. Every once in a while you'll get a really good swf team that will mop the floor with you if you're not on top of your game and managing chases, overall pressure and gen defense properly. Those loses are skill issues and great learning sessions.
For the record I'm a killer main with 2.5k hours and only less than 100 or so on survivor. If you want easy games or bad survivors just say so, not being condescending but very genuine.
Lastly people want prestige hidden due to lobby shopping. Showing comms would not only be kind of impossible considering people don't even have to use their computer or game system to communicate so there's no way of showing or knowing but it'd cause lobby shopping to be way worse than it already is and no one wants that.
So you believe the statistics they released? Great sounds good,
When are they going to nerf skull merchant then? Who is the most powerful killer in the history of DBD? More powerful even than when nurse had 5 blinks, remember that?
When are they going to buff nurse then? Who is one of the weakest killers in the game and has been for some time now?
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@DH3206 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754999#Comment_3754999
To be honest, you can't expect your fellow soloQ teammates to know that. I bet most probably don't know like what 50% of the killers perks do.
So, pick up the item and do that. But if we are balancing the game around "Average solo queue teammates" then when does nurse get buffs considering she has one of the lowest kill rates in the game? or are we only allowed to balance for average "survivor" players but when it comes to killer balance it has to be "top tier" players?
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754999#Comment_3754999
This assumes all survivors on the team are doing this and are somehow still being efficient on gens (searching for items and running to corners wastes a lot of time). As a solo q player, I have yet to see this happen. More often than not, at least 2 items are left where they are and as such the killer gets aura reading almost all game.
You do not need to be on a team to do this. You literally see the debuff when weave is in play, so you know when it happened to you.
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@Oh_deer said:
It's miserable to play against. It really is.
- Start the match with an item
- Killer hits you, and your item drops.
- You get the debuff indicating that the killer has weave.
- Run out of range of the item
- Get downed after a chase or escape
- Go back to your item when it is safe
- Pick up the item.
- Spend 5 seconds and run to a nearby corner of the map
- Press R
- The killer now has 2 perks
Why is this so hard for you?
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@hermitkermit said:
Gen-rushing is another one of those buzz words like tunneling in DBD that I feel is said way too often without having anytthing to do with what happened. I was under the impression that originally, "gen-rushing" referred to old DBD, when a 4 man swf used brand new parts and specific perks to complete generators extremely quickly, back when brand new parts didn't have skill checks, using a dedicated build with perks like old prove thyself, streetwise etc. and back when BNP completed the gen in like 20 seconds. Since then, both BNP and generator times have been adjusted, along with nerfs to certain gen related perks. I've also heard that gen-rushing refers to prioritizing generators over all other objectives, like ignoring hooked teammates or not healing, essentially never getting off a gen until you're forced of it, even if a teammate dies on hook in the process.
I'm curious about what people consider gen-rushing today. I believed gen-rushing required a coordinated team with specific items and perks focused solely on generators. This would be the "extreme" example, just as tunneling should only refer to targeting one survivor until they're dead. If a killer hooks someone twice, then switches targets, that's not tunneling, right? So if gens get completed without BNP is it still gen-rushing? If they get completed by 4 randoms is it still gen-rushing? Is it dependent on a specific build? If just one person has a gen build in solo, is that gen-rushing? Is the only requirement for gen-rushing being if the gens got done quickly? Regardless of items, perks, solo or swf, map pressure etc. So if one person is looping the killer and they're doing it long enough for 3 other people to get gens done, is that gen-rushing?
The terms tunneling and gen-rushing are often used so broadly that it seems people don't fully understand their meanings and use them to excuse their own mistakes or misplays. I believe tunneling is only when the killer targets one person consecutively until they are dead before moving on to another. Anything else is often confused with it. So, what truly is gen-rushing, and what is simply confused with it?
Thank you!
Through some replies, it's seems as though there is no "definition" of gen-rushing as everyone has their own "defition" of it, which seems like it shouldn't even be a real term since there isn't a definition for it. I mean, how are you meant to avoid doing it if nobody can even even tell you what it is lol. But, thanks for the replies none the less.
Gen rushing is the survivor version of tunneling.
What would you define as tunneling for a killer?
- Ignoring all other objectives/survivors and focusing solely on a single survivor.
Gen rushing thus could be defined as:
- Ignoring all other objectives and teammates and focusing solely on a generator.
This would mean ignoring these to work a gen instead
- healing yourself a teammates
- removing a pig trap from your head
- getting a pinhead box
- clearing sadako condem
- cleansing hex totems
- any other killer powers that require some kind of interaction to deal with
For me though, i think the main one is when you slam gens and ignore everything else basically especially after getting unhooked. Like, there are many times where i hook someone, they get unhooked, and i visibly see them in the distance. Instead of trying to use their basekit bt, or the fact that i don't know if they have DS or OTR or some other anti-tunnel perk and attempting to get to safety? They instead immediately hop back on the gen they were on before i started chasing them.
So what is it i do in this situation? Well obviously i immediately start going after them. And what is the predicted outcome here? Me probably winning the game because they didn't prioritize safety and instead gen rushed. And also likely getting cursed out in the endgame chat for being a "trash tunneler".
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
My teammates continue to kill themselves on hook whenever they verse him, and I'm a solo queue player so this obviously is annoying to deal with, that and having to deal with engravings that make overdrive miserable to deal with.
Hillbilly has been so common for me and I just want normal matches where people don't kill themselves on hook, people are treating him like Skull Merchant where they want nothing to do with him, and when I play him the amount of salt I get is pretty surprising, I thought people like playing against him? I'm guessing his buffs made him too much for some?
People I've encountered say he's the new "Blight", or that they will instantly kill themselves on hook whenever they see a Hillbilly, I myself won't go to that level, but he can be quite difficult to deal with, but I do enjoy chases with him from time to time.
What are your thoughts on him, is anyone else having similar experiences?
He was only fun because he was easy to bully. Now that he is good suddenly everyone hates him. What a surprise.
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@Sarrif said:
Let's say survivors had a perk where the only way to counter it was for the killer to go to the basement for a minute and just wait around and until they did that their aura was permanently revealed. Let's say this perk somehow took up four slots as well, would that be okay balance wise?
Well first of all.
No, but you also need to account for the fact that survivors have 16 perks to work with while the killer only has 4. So something taking 2 perk slots on a killer is half their build, but taking 2 perk slots for a survivor is only 1/8th the team's build.
Secondly, you are massively exaggerating how long it takes to counter this combo. You literally, walk to a corner of the map, and press r. Half the killer's perks are now mostly useless.
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@Backmon said:
From all b-tier killers Nemesis need buff the most. Hes main problem is his tentace, that give free health state and speed boost for survivors, that leads to very long chases cus down someone make and tier up make him a very long time. So the most logical buff is remove 3th health state and let tentacle both injure and infect you
He really just needs a little QOL buffs.
- Make zombie AI better
- Make them a bit faster basekit
- Remove the speed boost on infection (the survivor is not taking damage, why do they get a speed boost?) It also seems counterintuitive since in theory becoming infected gives them hindered.
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@please_explain said:
I am so sick of the slugging for the 4k strat, what is so hard for the devs to give the option to either unalive myself or give base kit unbreakable to the last 2 survivors. I literally throw myself at the killer so he can get me out of the game cuz 2v1 scenarios are unwinnable anyway and he still slugs me and I need to be stuck another 4 minutes in a lost game cuz a 3k win is never enough for some people. Just get rid of it for the love of God more the 50% of games have the following scenario: Killer tunnels first guy out then tunnels the second one and then slugs the third while the forth guy hides in a locker cuz he wants hatch and if your unlucky enough to be the third guy enjoy laying on the floor for 4 minutes until your timer runs out. Give me a break I've been playing this game for 4 years and it's the same thing over and over again. 3k is a win take and go next your mmr still goes up no matter what a win is still a win, at this point the killer wastes his own time cuz if the forth guy is elusive enough he can still escape after the bleed out. Stop wasting our time please.
Stop blaming the killers for it and start blaming the devs, or the survivor who is hiding.
Why are the devs at fault?
- a 4k gives more bloodpoints
- a hatch escape feels bad especially when survivors teabag
- its impossible to defend both gates in most maps (which is intentional) unless you are playing a top tier killer like nurse, so refer back to the bloodpoints
- The last survivor escaping is a multi-level handout
- The killer had to win the match by stopping the survivors
- Then they had to win the 50/50 and find the hatch first
- Then they had to win the 50/50 and find the survivor before they open a gate and get out
- Why does the killer have to win 3 times to get the 4k?
Its just bad design.
As for the survivor, if this is happening, the 4th survivor is fully capable of just running to the killer and letting them get the 4k, because if the killer is slugging for the 4k, it is likely that they are gonna get it anyway. So why waste everyone's time?
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@Nazzzak said:
I've said for awhile they need to make them not count. It won't eliminate slugging but I do think it'll help.
Great idea, so now when killers do this, their MMR will go down and continue to go down until they face worse and worse teams.
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@sinkra said:
There's no need to list the reasons why it's op, it's been done already. SM is sitting at a 70% kr and is terrible to play against. In other games something so op would be hotfixed within 48 hours. How can the devs be fine with this?
So, you can believe one of 2 things. And it is not possible to believe both of them.
- Skull merchant is the most overpowered killer in DBD history, so overpowered that she overshadows nurse as being the most powerful killer that this game has ever seen. And this even includes omega blink (5 blink, yes, 5 blink) nurse.
- Everyone ragequits against SM and nopes out of the game as fast as possible, killing themselves on the hook and inflating her kill rates.
Which one do you think is more likely?
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@BbQz said:
Your claim of it not being comparable to 3 genning is wrong. That simple claim destroys your entire post. Survivors running killers into dead zones isn't a new concept by any means good killers realize that players do this so other players can work on gens in the area your currently patrolling. Your your job as killers to break chases or prioritize targets when end game gets close.
It's understandable why you would want respawning hooks it would make playing killer easier to justify this fact you made a essay to explain why it should be easier for killers is wild
It should not be possible for survivors to create a situation where it is physically impossible to hook them because they run to a specific area of the map. Full stop.
And i say this as "both sides" because if you do this, you'd rather sit there and bleed out for 4 minutes instead of the killer just hooking you?
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744741#Comment_3744741
Well, considering its just the PTB, i want to try it out to test as it will become.
We only got half of MotR and "Pillaged Mead were fan favorites???" What? Pillaged Mead is trash and no one uses that addon at all. We need Call to Arms base kit as well. Now that is STILL a required addon…killing me here.
Yes, i wish they added full map of the realm and reworked the addon, but lets test in on the PTB to see how it will go.
About the short range and long range patrols: i still think it will be a buff overall, as you can create long range patrols circling objects and loops, maybe they change the faster deplete rate when the Knight is near a guard - i don't think that is necessary.
What we needed was a scalable increase to guard chase speed with a skill
requirement to allow guards to reliably get hits if we played wellThe devs said many times that the Knight is meant to get a hit working together with his guards, not the guards by themselves. Although i understand that some player want the guards to get hits, i still think that this can lead to some Skull Merchant situations where a Knight holds a trigen by sending guards to get them injure and send survivors away.
The problem is he was supposed to get significantly buffed in his healthier game play in return, which didn't happen.
Lets wait the PTB and give the proper feedback to the devs in what is needed to put the Knight in a better spot.
But this change contradicts that:
[NEW] When The Knight is within 8 meters of his guard, the guard’s hunt timer depletes 3x faster.
So basically, the idea is to send a guard with a path that is long, the guard starts chasing someone, but it will NEVER hit a person on its own, so now you need to run over to the area the guard is at to help them chase the survivor, but now once you get close, the guard will end much sooner.
Its like they want the goal to be to set long range paths and do cool stuff and guard areas, but the problem is the guards themselves are NOT a threat without you supporting them, but if you support them they disappear faster. Its an odd choice.
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@jamally093 said:
So I constantly see pain res and pop in ever match because their part of the meta...what about the other perks that I won't lie have some potential.
Surge/Jolt: Good information perk as you will know if someone is repairing a gen while you down someone plus it stacks and also you don't need to do anything other the down a survivor.
Oppression: I'm surprised barely any one uses it. "It's because it takes 80 seconds to recharge." I won't lie that's a nice cool down for a perk that kicks 3 gens at once and adds to it if someone fails a skill check.
Eruption: basically Jolt...but a bit better effects all gens you kick and you don't have to be anywhere near by the gen for it to go boom. Plus aura reading. With a 30 second cool down.
Call of brine: It regresses gen really quickly for a full minute. Plus it also gives notification if someone wants to go ahead and poke it again while the perk is still active.
This is coming from someone who plays survivor a lot these perks I never see used maybe Overcharge once in a blue moon but all the others just nothing.
"Because Pop allows you to take a lot of regression away." Some of those perks do also not in one go but still.
"Pain Res allows you to know where the gen is located and regresses a lot at the same time." Okay but you have four tokens once those are gone boom perks useless plus if a survivor just doesn't touch the gen you don't get a notification.
So I don't know why those perks are slept on is it the cool down length or just the fact that you would rather have the most progressed gen destroyed? I don't use the meta because I want survivors to have a taste of something different I hate using Pop and Pain Res because I don't like using the meta since mixing and matching is fun and allows you to experiment with things.
Call of brine does not "regress a gen really quickly for a minute"
If you kick a gen that is at 89 seconds of repair that regresses for a full minute including the 5% kick
Without CoB: 69.5 seconds on gen
With CoB: 65.75 seconds on a gen.
So for an entire perk slot, you get an extra 3.75 seconds of regression. Yeah, really regresses that gen SUPER FAST…..
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@jezebelthenun said:
Well, it's finally happened. I've become so frustrated that I made an account here to vent.
I've been playing since 2016, and the amount of tunneling I've seen in this event needs to be discussed. It has been, without exaggeration, 9/10 games. When confronted in EGC, they always just say "Calm down, I'm just playing the game". I don't play an anti-tunnel build because it shouldn't be this much of an issue. If I have to waste 1 to 2 perk slots each game on anti-tunnel perks, it's a bigger issue in general that should be dealt with. I don't get BNP, toolbox add-ons, or even toolboxes in more than 50% of my bloodwebs, but I can be tunneled out of 90% of my games. I've even taken to playing gentle killers who chase and release during the event just to spread BP and let people have fun, because they might not otherwise given how toxic killer mains have been lately. It's just a bummer. As I said, I've been playing a long time, but it's just ridiculous lately.
This is what happens when the game is balanced in such a way that is necessary at a high level. People see comp matches, and they emulate what they do there. Wouldn't it be better if the game was balanced around hooks and chases instead of kills?
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742661#Comment_3742661
No, there's plenty of killers that are viable at top mmr. It's just there's a handful that have a guaranteed 100% winrate at high mmr because their powers are fundamentally overpowered.
Second, basekit buffs are insanely more powerful than nerfing a handful of perks because that opens up perk slots. Would you be okay if all survivors got basekit off the record and sprint burst but made the perks a lil bit weaker?
I actually think they also need to do something for survivors to basekit deal with camping and tunneling. Yeah.
They should give kindred basekit among other things, but probably need to create a mechanic that deals with tunneling basekit, then nerf/rework perks like OTR and DS.
Sorry, did you think i was an "us vs them" kind of person and don't realize both sides have problems?
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@Mortecaii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742070#Comment_3742070
Then adjust accordingly based on MMR.
Now this creates a system that is extremely complicated to understand from a player perspective. Also, in order to do such a system, they would need to show your MMR which they won't do.
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742644#Comment_3742644
Wow that's a terrible suggestion, no offense but killers like billy, nurse, and blight should never get any kind of buffs.
I like how billy is suddenly in this list these days, and blight still is despite massive nerfs.
But did you miss the part where i said to basically cut gen defense perks in half? The point is to do the thing they do with killers, when something like say:
Hey, deathslinger reload time feels bad when you don't have the addon, so now instead the reload speed being 2.8 seconds and the addon lowers it to 2.3 seconds, the default is 2.6 seconds and the addon still lowers it to 2.3 seconds.
So the idea is, if you take the perks, its probably about as strong as it was, and if you don't it doesn't feel bad. How you translated that into "i can't believe you want to buff nurse" is beyond me.
The fact that there is only a handful of competitively viable killers at top mmr, yet there are 30+ killers, is a big problem. We need to be fixing the 30+ killers that need to be fixed before we worry about the couple of ones that are too strong.
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I think it is bad because it creates yet another number that BHVR will horribly balance. They'll see that nurse has a low kill rate and her number will be high.
The thing that really just needs to be done is what they do with killers where addons become/feel "required" buff the basekit, and nerf the perks.
If killers had say:
- 10% base kick regression
- 200% base regression
- 30 second base corrupt
- 30 second base corrupt on hex totems
- Time to kick gens becomes 1 second instead of 1.8
- Nerf all the gen defense perks by about 25%-50% (depending on the perk) or just reworking ones that need it.
Things would be in a better spot, and this would be a good start to fixing stacking 4 gen defense perks, and gen defense being required for the balance of the game.
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@Manslaughter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736057#Comment_3736057
As an oni main, the charge speed means nothing. As long as you can balance chase and blood orb absorption your good. Sure it's a bit hard to balance it at time but keeping at least an injured survivor distracted from healing is better than having no power for along duration cause the blood orbs give more progress towards blood fury. So once you down the survivor, hook them then go get the blood orbs.
You are thinking about the wrong addon. I'm talking about the one that lets you charge your dash faster.
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My premise is simple.
Nurse has been allowed to exist in her current state for a year and a half. With her last nerf happening on January 24 of 2023.
Based on that, it would stand to reason that BHVR thinks that nurse is fine and balanced.
And based on what you are currently saying about Vecna, implies that you think Vecna should be nerfed. And based on what you are saying about nurse, it would imply you think she should be nerfed as well.
But, if she has been in the state she has been for over a year, and the devs seem fine with her. That stands to reason that nurse is actually weaker than Vecna, since vecna is getting nerfed.
So i ask you a simple question.
Which killer is stronger, nurse or vecna?
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736415#Comment_3736415
Great, the Nurse-argument. The fact that Nurse exists invalidates any discussion about any other killer being unfair. You ask yourself this: Was Dredge stronger than Nurse when he received his personal anti-camp mechanic blocking him from teleporting to lockers around hooked survivors? Spoiler, he was not but that was still supremely unfair. As for Nurse herself not even God knows why she doesn't even receive minor nerfs.
Vecna can do multiple things in a pallet play. Two of them involve him just walking through the pallet. Another is him spawning skeletons inside the survivor with no reaction time. Dropped pallets are as good as deadzones against him. He is far from weak and 0.15s will not break him.
You still have yet to explain any decent reason why nurse exists, and any other killer deserves a nerf.
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@Jaredleto1234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735664#Comment_3735664
I think he is unquestionably better than most killers and will likely receive a round of nerfs, just like the several killers that came before him. Killer perks being good is irrelevant to what I am saying, they are just icing. When was the last time you bought a dlc for the survivor perks because they were good?
Now ask yourself this.
Is vecna stronger than nurse? If not, then why does vecna deserve nerfs but nurse is going to continue to exist in her current form?
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735983#Comment_3735983
The answer for you was clearly discussed with 'burt0r' above.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736017#Comment_3736017
It's true haha!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735997#Comment_3735997
Sorry for being so enthusiastic in answering everything, and giving you all the clarification. But I realized that, no matter what I say, if you're the one who always wants to play 'toxic' (your habit) in every single match, you'll always have a reason (no matter how lame) for it. So you and I should stop discussing this further, lest I become known as an attacker (even though I was just the one responding to what you mentioned earlier). As this buddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735466#Comment_3735466
Just like when playing football in the neighborhood, you can play as toxic as you want. You're right, no one cares. No spectators, no viewers, no referee, no caster. It's true.
I do not represent BHVR so I have no right to tell you how to play decently 🙂
I play to win, not toxic, but i agree, its the least fun way to play.
I really don't understand what you are arguing here anymore. You are saying tunneling and camping are bad, which we both agree, but you are saying that players are "mean" for doing it, and not complaining that the developers enable it. Like again, i simply ask you, what is your counter argument to what i'm saying?
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
I am convinced that the people who are complaining about Vecna's Mage Hand being nerfed legitimately only play killer and have no experience of what Vecna is like as survivor.
Survivor has been miserable since yesterday
I think they are moving too fast. They need to fix the obvious bug and then wait and see how it goes.
The reality is, there is a mindgame there, but survivors haven't learned it yet and because of that they are having a hard time. I have played against vecna quite a bit at this point and the mindgame is really easy once you get the hang of it.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735995#Comment_3735995
You didn't, nor did I say that you did. It was a statement, not meant to be interpreted as a direct response to what you were saying.
The advantage of being in a swf is having reliable teammates. That's not something that has anything to do with game balance. SoloQ players are notorious for playing badly or selfishly, and that's not something you can really change. They're either a team player or they aren't.
Why should killers be allowed to cherry pick their matches? Especially when there will always be a scapegoat they can blame their losses on. If it's not SWFs, it's P100's, and if it's not P100's, it's M1 Killers are too weak, and if it's not that then it'll be that survivors genrushed, so on and so forth. This isn't even unique to Dead by Daylight. It happens in every competitive PvP game.
Swfs would either only face meta-slave killers, or they just wouldn't get matches. Killers would lobby dodge, every time. It wouldn't matter if the SWFs had 5 hours played, or 5000 hours played. They'd still be a SWF and the killer would still choose to lobby dodge.
Sure, a system could be added that punishes killers for lobby dodging but then you're just forcing them to play against swfs anyway. The games in which they're forced to play against swfs they'd probably just afk.
So, no, there isn't a balance issue with SWFs. There will always be outliers where you run into extremely coordinated SWFs, but most SWFs just aren't like that nor do they have any interest in it.
I believe that sufficiently answers your question.
This is precisely my point i am making though.
If it is true, that SWFS would only face meta-slave killers, or wouldn't get matches because killer would lobby dodge, would that not indicate a problem that SWF is maybe too strong?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Would you rather go against killer add ons that do unique and interesting things or would you rather all of their add ons just be “X Faster” add ons?
Blight had literally every unique add on changed and while some were super strong and deserved it they all have been replaced by very boring X Faster add ons.
I’m honestly not a big fan of X Faster add ons and would rather then do things they slightly changes the gameplay in a more unique way.
Ideally, everything that makes a killer feel "required" should become baskit, many of these "this thing is faster" or "this is slightly better" addons are just required to play the killer, otherwise it feels miserable.
- Trapper feels bad without a bag addon
- Wraith feels bad without windstorm and swift hunt
- Billy feels bad without cooldown reduction
- Nurse feels bad without attack range addon
- Myers feels bad without stalk speed increase
- Hag feels bad without range increase
- Doctor feels bad without range increase
- Huntress feels bad without windup speed increase
- Bubba feels bad without chili
- Freddy just feels bad and all his addons are horrible
- Pig feels bad without charge speed increases
- Clown feels bad without reload speed
- Spirit feels bad without movement speed increases
- Legion feels bad without frenzy duration/movement speed
- Plague feels bad without extra fountains
- Ghostface feels bad without cooldown reduction
- Demo feels bad without movement speed increases
- Oni feels bad without charge speed increases
- Deathslinger feels bad without reload speed increases
- Pyramid head feels bad without range speed increases (although all the other addons are terrible)
- Blight feels bad without speed increases
- Twins feels bad without toy sword
- Trickster feels bad without movement speed increases
- Nemesis addons are all bad and should feel bad
- Cenobite feels bad without that one purple addon to spawn extra change
- Artist feels bad without repel time reduction and cooldown reduction
- Sadako feels bad without the movement speed boost on teleport
- Dredge feels bad without the one that lets him break out of locked lockers faster
- Wesker feels bad without the egg
- Knight feels bad without the map of the realm
- Skull merchant feels bad without undetectable duration and cooldown reduction
- Singularity feels bad without duration increase
- Xenomorph feels bad without flamethrower reduction addoons
- Chucky feels bad without cooldown addons
- Unknown feels bad without the teleport recovery speed
- Vecna feels bad without fly addons (so far in my experience)
I really think they need to do a massive overhaul of addons. Anything that feels "required" should just become basekit completely and the addon system should be reworked. Addons should never just "increase x thing" or "decrease x thing" they should be cool unique gameplay changes.
Basically you should have:
- 4 brown addons
- 4 yellow addons
- 3 green addons
- 2 purple addons
- 2 iri addons
I honestly think wraith is the best designed killer in terms of addons, despite him feeling bad in a few cases
Brown addons should always just increase bloodpoints and NOT weaken the power.
Yellow addons should always have 1 that gives double bloodpoints and weakens the power (hard mode addon/farming) and the others should do minor ADDITIONS to the power
Green addons should be major ADDITIONS to the power
Purple Addons should do minor CHANGES to the power
Iri addons should do MAJOR changes to the power.
So for example, if i were to redesign wraith's addons that were bad i would have all of his addons be like this:
Basekit changes:
- Purple windstorm now made base kit
- Purple Swift hunt now made base kit
Brown:
- Gain 100% bonus bloodpoints in the brutality category, and hitting a survivor out of cloak gives an additonal 100% bloodpoints in brutality
- Gain 100% bonus bloodpoints in the deviousness category, and uncloking near a survivor grants bonus bloodpoints in the deviousness category (new score event)
- Gains 100% bonus bloodpoints in the hunter category, and being near a survivor while cloaked grants bonus bloodpoints in the hunter category
- Gains 100% bonus bloodpoints in the sacrifice category, and gain bonus bloodpoints when a survivor is sacrifice while you are in a chase (promote not camping)
Yellow
- Grants 100% bonus bloodpoints in all categories, but reduces the movement speed bonus you get after uncloaking
- Hitting a survivor with a surprise attack grants blindness for 60 seconds
- Breaking a pallet, wall, or generator with automatically uncloak you
- Your undetectable lasts for another 6 seconds after uncloaking
Green
- Hitting a survivor with a surprise attack grants mangled and Hemorrhage for 70 seconds
- Reveals the aura of survivors within 8 meters of your location while cloaked
- Survivors are unable to tell the direction or distance of the wailing bell (becomes a background noise)
Purple
- Action speeds while cloaked are 75% faster, but action speeds while uncloaked are 35% slower.
- The wailing bell becomes completely silent and the wraith no longer makes noises while cloaked, but uncloaking takes 50% longer
Iridescent
- Movement speed is decreased to 3.85 m/s, the wraith can hit survivors out of cloak. Performing an action or an attack will uncloak the wraith. Cloaking now takes 100% longer. Starts the trial uncloaked (this tells survivors this addon is in play)
- While cloaked, see the aura of all generators and their progress, and generators that are being repaired will be highlighted in blue, but while uncloaked you suffer from the blindness status effect.
So like, the gist is, brown addons are for bloodpoint farming. There's a yellow for more intense bloodpoint farming that makes it harder. The rest of the yellows give minor additions to the power. The greens give more major additions to the power. The purple changes the power in some smaller ways by strengthening in some ways or weakening in others, and the purple changes your power completely, almost as if you were a different killer.
These probably are not balanced at all, but i'm just showing like the kinds of things they should do.
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@Peanits said:
Hey folks, now that we've had some time to see it play out and think it over, I wanted to give a quick update. The current plan is to make some changes to Mage Hand in one of our upcoming minor patches.
We'll be slightly reducing Mage Hand's range to 14m (was 16m)EDIT: This one is no longer planned.- We're reverting the pallet lift time to 0.5s (was 0.35s) - this is the same as the PTB version.
We'll also be reworking the Ring of Telekenesis add-on (which currently causes Mage Hand to pick up pallets quicker) to have a different effect since this turned out to be a very risky number to mess with.
And lastly, as a quick reminder, we'll be fixing a bug which caused Mage Hand to continue picking up a pallet after it stuns you (the stun will correctly cancel Mage Hand), so combining it with Enduring will no longer be an issue.
Keep an eye out for patch notes in case anything changes.
Any plans to address the fact that the other 3 abilities are one that can't actually get your hits, and the other 2 are pretty useless at it? Why in the hell can you just crouch to dodge one of them when it already is hard to hit with? Why does it telegraph even through walls that the killer used it? Why does it all have such a long cooldown despite being so weak?
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734157#Comment_3734157
Smite has Arena, which is supposed to be casual, in fact some of the announcer voices you can enable taunt you and say various things that amount to "Go back to Arena, you suck" when you die. So, thing is, even being the casual mode (There is no ranked arena) you still get those that are overly competitive and will scream and cuss at you if you are not the most cracked Smite player who ever lived like they think they are.
So i listed 4 games where i personally play and have had positive casual experiences, and you list a completely irrelevant one?
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735548#Comment_3735548
Haha, look at the list of games he designed, does anyone play them? And those games belong to the fighting, puzzle and boardgame genres, which have nothing to do with this. Be aware that the things stated in his book were intended to make him sell the games, but the result was still a failure.
You ask me why…?!! Hey buddy, it was you who fought me first. Read the previous comments, you are also the one who explained your bad play with the reason that survivors use pallet saves, flashlight saves, DS... And I just point out why that is a wrong comparison: your bad playstyle is the thing even a newbie can do, but survivors' stuff as you listed are things that must be practiced a lot to master.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735466#Comment_3735466
Ok, it's like playing football in the neighborhood, you can play as 'toxic' as you want. I get it 🙂. Your choice, bro
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735591#Comment_3735591
So can I ask for the records (a social link, YT, etc.) of the DBD tournament that you organized where the candidates compete to win in bad ways? And the DBD movie of Blumhouse doesn't seem to have an official release date yet, right? Anw, it's just like a LOL movie, the events in the movie cannot be compared to the context in the game match, one side is a story-based movie, the other side is game matches. Truly, many players confuse applying pressure (when faced with a bully team) and camping (all the time, in every single match).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735558#Comment_3735558
"I haven't been seeing sabo squads nearly as much as I assumed I would" » » » Exactly bro!!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735618#Comment_3735618
Ya, we share the same experience with 'hailxsatanxeveryxday'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735642#Comment_3735642
Thanks for the information that I missed. ELO or whatever, anyway, the players matching system must still result in an even match where players will end up facing opponents at the same level, not perfectly, but as balanced as possible.
I have to admit, I have met many killers who mastered their basekit (especially the Nurse, the Huntress and the Deathslinger), and also met a few high-skilled survivors, even their chase carried up to 5 gens (sounds crazy, but it's true). Really admire them!!
Again, attack the idea, not the person. Stop engaging in Ad Hominem attacks and explain to me, what is wrong with the ideas?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735481#Comment_3735481
Because being in a SWF doesn't guarantee a win. Having an advantage doesn't guarantee a win. The game is no longer balanced around survivors having a lack of information. Just look at the UI changes that were made to give Solo Queue more information and aid in their decision-making process.
Why should we needlessly punish SWFs, simply because games against them are harder than they are against the mixed bag that is SoloQ?
Where in anything did i write did i say "being in a SWF guarantees a win".
Being in a SWF statistically increases your chances of winning, period, end of story. Thus there is a clear advantage to being in a SWF vs not. So why is killer not allowed to see that before the game starts?
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@HEX_DEAD_BY_AI said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735053#Comment_3735053
Is the book writer a part or a member or a fan or a player of esports? Do you play DBD? If not, then he has nothing to do with this. Books are just books, and many of them have absurd, unrealistic views, even if the author has never experienced the relevant thing. And you use it as your excuse haha.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735054#Comment_3735054
In short, it's still you making excuses for your bad habits. As you said "Camping and tunneling over and over is a tactics close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub". Ya, clearly, it's your habit, your playstyle from the beginning, from the first day you bought this game. And, you've never learned how to play in a decent way.
Just ask yourself: Why can other people play decently, people livestream it usually, but I can't, and I explain my bad because of this neft, because of that neft? Why do I compare things a newbie can do (camp, tunnel, slug), with things that require practice to master (pallet save, flashlight save, etc.)? Why didn't I realize the "bad play" of the survivors was the ones just hiding, holding the game hostage (hatch player)?
For your more information:
The author of the book is a game designer, a big one at that that is big in the fighting game community and has been in charge of design and balance for many massively competitive esports games.
But, now you are engaging in a logical fallacy by attacking the author. Attack the argument i am making. Which is simple. If you want those strategies which we both agree are unfun to go away. Then the devs need to stop encouraging those playstyles and start encouraging the healthier ones. Balance the game around hooks and chases instead of kills.
Why exactly are you fighting me on this? Can you please explain any reason you think that is a bad idea?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735055#Comment_3735055
I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that it has anything to do with game balance. If you go from playing against people who barely know what they're doing, to playing against people who are objectively more competent, is that something that needs fixing?
My point is, if it is a fact that there is an advantage to playing with a SWF than without, then lets address the OP. Why can't killers get to see what they are going against so they can decide if they want to opt into a harder game simply because they are against a team on coms despite the fact that the game is CLEARLY balanced around survivors having a lack of information. Given that so many survivor perks just give you information about what your teammates are doing.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3734373#Comment_3734373
I have no idea what you mean by that. So either I have to choose not to bring an item into a trial, when the game is balanced around me doing so, in fear of this combination? What kind of logic is that? The better idea would be to just nerf the combination.
No, you bring the item anyway, but when it becomes apparent the killer has franklins and this perk, you pick up your item, put it in a corner of the map, and now you have no item, and the killer only has 2 perks.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735198#Comment_3735198
Not really, let's say you down the guy body blocking, slug him after and go right for the person that just got unhooked to tunnel them. It is not necessarily exclusive.
And while you are tunneling someone what is happening? Are the other survivors just hiding in corners doing nothing? Or are they doing generators? Is the guy you are tunneling going down in 5 seconds? Or is he able to hold his own and last a decent amount of time?
Based on the answer to those questions, it should reveal why the strategy is working against you or not.
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@Sunflower_Mage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735056#Comment_3735056
Counterpoint: Tunnel at 5 gens and slug if need be with an aura reading build. Nothing stops a killer from doing that. Play an anti-loop killer so you are not forced in bad chases, like Pyramid Head. Run stuff like Nurse's Calling so you can see where people are as you want them bleeding out or injured, as if someone tries to be altrustic, you can potentially see where someone is if a survivor helps a downed survivor.
You can't tunnel and slug at the same time. Slugging implies you aren't hooking, and tunneling implies you are. And slugging doesn't waste any more time of survivors than a hook does, you still need to run over to them, and you still need to help them. All it does is save the killer some time in exchange for not progressing their objective.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735056#Comment_3735056
With the way that the game is going, where loops are being shortened and spread out, and killers are getting more abilities instead of one major ability, chases don't last very long for the majority of players.
Just now I had a player end themselves when they got hit with lethal. Immediately puts the other 3 at a major disadvantage.
And now your MMR is showing.
I understand that the game is frustrating when you are newer as survivor, believe me, i started this game playing with a bunch of friends and we were lucky if we ever got 1 generator done. This was back when the game legitimately had infinites. But as you gain more experience, you start to get better and realize why every major tournament that has ever been done has heavy limitations on survivors, or some kind of point scoring system outside of just kills and escapes.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Seems like they forgot about him Once mid chapter happend.
Also the more I play him the more I think He Isnt as great anymore.
Unknown is pretty terrible.
If they just made it so direct hits with the grenade also applied the weakness effect and did damage, the killer would be in a much better spot. Right now, the ball is so easy to dodge its a complete joke. What unironically is the most effective thing this killer has, is running undetectable perks, and teleporting around then coming at the survivors from unexpected angles.
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@Brightened said:
I know killer players will be ENRAGED but it's a little ridiculous how frequently a killer can see us on the map.
Just now I went against a killer with Lethal, Darkness Revealed, and Barb/Chili.Now all of the killer mains will come in here and be like "Run distortion then"
Yeah I was actually. All 3 tokens got taken immediately after the first chase the killer had.
Solution: Group perk types of survivors and killers and limit the number they can bring.
For example, a survivor doesn't need to have wire tap and chemical trap. A killer doesn't need to have all aura reading perks.
Counter point.
A killer with that much aura reading has 0 gen defense perks. Would you rather they be running pop + pain res + grim embrace + corrupt?