Jaredleto1234
Jaredleto1234
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- Jaredleto1234
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739480#Comment_3739480
Maybe me playing at high MMR against strong killers is skewing my stats.
of course you are. Same as everyone else :D What you consider high MMR is exactly same as what BHVR consider high MMR. For match making it doesn't matter how you are, or think you are.
Btw if you are losing as much as you act, you wouldn't be in high MMR. You need to escape regularly to be in high MMR.
So pick one, either you rarely escape, which means you are not in high MMR, or you escape regularly and I don't see your issue at that point.I guess my point would be no killer should have over a 60% killrate, and no killer should be below 55%
That's impossible and opposite of smart.
Should Nurse, Singularity and Artist be buffed just because of low kill rate? It doesn't make any sense.I think the fact that 90% of my games are the same 4 killers, is proof that I am playing against the top 10% every game. Killers gravitate to what is OP and hardly play anything else, unless a ritual or challenge requires it.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739480#Comment_3739480
This I agree with, but let's tighten it in light of the fact we literally have SWFs that can win almost 50% of the time if strong enough.
I think the Killrate range that is acceptable is between 57-65%. No higher and no lower. Killer should always basekit feel and be much stronger than Survivor, period. I want my Survivor games to feel challenging, without the Killer having to resort to nasty tactics to do well.
I think worrying about SWFs when the vast majority of the player base is solo survivors is an extremely poor use of time. I agree with your kill rates FOR solo survivors. If that is the overall average killrate you are going for, then solo survivors will be that much more at a disadvantage.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Chucky was Fun before they changes him. He Isnt as Fun anymore.
The way they are releasing killers you want to basically play them the first 3 months they come out and then drop them. Because they are releasing killers in a hilariously OP state and then nerfing them in the next patch.
I wish they would do the same for survivor perks.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739183#Comment_3739183
What are you talking about?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ICX8GL0OXBCO/screenshot-20240613-101304-153.png
the big killer buffs and substantial survivor nerfs.
What buffs and what survivor nerfs?
Basically only major nerf was healing nerf, which was like April? So most of the data are after that period.
How were killers buffed? You think 3-gen feature and current patch buffed killers?
Basically playing without any slowdown improved slightly, but you are going to lose many games anyway.
Strongest killers can do was nerfed a lot.
Maybe me playing at high MMR against strong killers is skewing my stats. I guess my point would be no killer should have over a 60% killrate, and no killer should be below 55%. If either of those two things exist tuning needs to happen.
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@VomitMommy said:
Those are going to be some next level speed runs...
LoL players are going to look like most stubborn players compare to this.
I mean, same rules need to apply for killers, so I can see something positive. When survivors try map offering I can just hard tunnel someone and immediately DC.
What a great idea…
Tunneling is happening regardless of what players do, so I wouldn't mind the trade off. I would also be okay with the killer DCing if someone died early or if someone else left. I record stats and in nearly half of my games the killer tunnels from the very first hook.
Games are over 99% of the time if someone dies in the first 5 minutes or if someone DCs. I don't see the point of playing out a game you are going to get very little points in and die anyway.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738473#Comment_3738473
Just tried it against a swf. They just had 1 injured person constantly disarm my traps, so everyone on their team stays healthy.
Doesn't seem like you read what I said, you shouldn't be running a perk to injure someone who breaks traps. If someone is going through your web disarming traps that's the person you should have been chasing. As soon as a trap gets disarmed you chase that person but also come from a direction that would push them back into the web. A lot of times people will disarm traps and immediately run in the direction they know is safe and a lot of times that can only be one direction. So you can cut them off easily and get a free hit.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739126#Comment_3739126
Well, luckily doesn't matter.
BHVR wants to have kill rate around 60%, which I agree with.
And kill rate is around that right now for both soloQ and SWF based on data they showed us.
The data they showed us was before the big killer buffs and substantial survivor nerfs. I wouldn't be surprised if its around a 55% for SWF and 70% in solo lobbies.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739063#Comment_3739063
When was soloQ worse than it is right now, just a few months ago?
before HUD changes? HUD was pretty big deal at least for me.
I would have no problem agreeing with you if the game offered in game comms, or some way to interact with your team better.
I just want chat wheel.
If you wanted to go out of your way and try and get people in discord, or just in your party, in most cases you wouldn't even be able to.
How so? It is super easy on official DBD discord. There is just bunch of rooms to join players. I have used to play there quite a lot and it is still active as far I know.
If they were to go down a path of increasing communication between solo survivors I would have no problem saying you are right.
Well, issue is by their statistics. The difference between SWF and soloQ escape rate is minor. Experience is completely different tho…
I definetly don't think there is reason to make killer's experience worse because of it. Just complain and try to get devs to add soloQ features instead. That's just best for everyone imo.I have no problem with them nerfing SWFs and buffing solo survivors, and I think just about everyone on the forums would agree.
Well, you are wrong about that. But go and try to make a post about nerfing SWF. Don't forget to mention me, so I can get popcorn.
SWFs would be high S, killers would be low S, and solo survivors would be B or even C tier.
I kinda agree. It's little bit more complicated than that. You have killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy on same level as SWF, then you have most other killers spread all the way to A, then you have B on survivors.
That shouldn't be a thing, there should be handicaps of some kind to significantly reduce that gap.
I have already said I agree with this. Best solution is to buff soloQ. Killers are not affected, SWF are not affected, just soloQ improves and everyone is happy.
Trying to bring SWF and killers to soloQ level is just going to make it bad for everyone, how is that good idea?On top of that, their streaks are usually fractions of the games of killer streaks.
Because it is complete gamble. Hey if you god-like looper, then your chance is way better. All you need to get is stubborn killer. But still gamble.
I don't think soloQ is unplayable, it all comes down to what you expect from the game. If your consider game to be "good" only if you escape, then just soloQ is bad for you. Mild shock…Also are you sure you want to balance the game around escape rate / kill rate? Because that is not going to end well for anyone.
In my opinion Artist and Singularity are good killers, but their skill floor is way higher than most killers in DBD. So their kill rates are trash.
Should they be buffed just because most players are simply not good enough with them? No
Should survivors be nerfed so their kill rate increase while ignoring killers who already have good enough kill rate? That's even dumber
SWF and most killers in DBD are in decent balance in my opinion. Probably best we ever had. So only thing you need to do is focus on soloQ and few specific killers. Don't touch what is not broken.I think 50% kill rate is fair, and right now its much higher than that.
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I think a debuff with hinder and bloodlust removal would actually be the safest way to do this. The only thing you would also need to do, so survivors don't abuse this. Make it so an unhooked survivors also have no collision with the killer during this debuff.
You would get the debuff for 2 minutes after being unhooked or until you do a conspicuous action. It removes your collision, causes the killer to lose bloodlust if he enters chase with you, and reduces his movement speed slightly.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738698#Comment_3738698
I think the kill rate was around 50-55% for most killers before 6.1. Average might been exactly 53% which sounds fine on paper but suicides for example inflated that so match where survivors tried they had better chance to win. Probably perk like noed carried many killers too. Playing agains't dead hard was terrible back then so I think that made players not like playing killer.
Now kill rate seems to be in 60-65% range and that seems little too high. Because soloQ is the side who suffers most. Many maps have been nerfed and made smaller to give m1 killers chance. If gens don't get done quickly the match is lost as resources end quickly. Maybe it would be good to test balance around 55-60% kill rate that might make it more fair and add some of the weaker maps more pallets or something.
Honestly, I would be okay with making it so you can only try to unhook yourself, if you have a perk associated with that mechanic. Think about the amount of times you actually tried to unhook for a good reason and you managed to do it. You can probably count all of those times on one hand. I also don't see a problem if the struggle mechanic were to only show up if you are 1 of 2 people left, or everyone else is slugged. That would kill 80-90% of people going next, you would still have people dcing but at least you get a bot now.
I think at that point you would start to actually get a good sense of why people are leaving games though. I know that the forums would tell people to just stop being "toxic" and giving up. But there are at least 3 killers I can think of, where I would rather drink bleach than play against. Dcing is just as much on unfun game mechanics, as it is on "toxic" survivors.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738946#Comment_3738946
You should give up on playing this game on your own and play with a SWF or lose
That's not give up. It's about expectations. I play soloQ regularly, basically whenever is bonus for survivors. But I simply don't care if I die, I just want to get good chase and if someone manages to escape, good.
But you definitely shouldn't expect to escape all the time.
That's a very quick way to kill a game where most of the players are solo players.
Oh really? SoloQ used to be even worse than now. Is DBD dead game? I don't think so...
Even if you consider this an issue. Fix is not nerf for killers, because you said SWF are able to beat you already. So that part seems fine to me.
Change is supposed to be QoL features for soloQ, which I will be more than happy to get as long it won't affect SWF.
you have to see how this would be extremely bad for the overall generation and retention of solo players.
I have suggested several possible changes to help soloQ on forum.
But approach keep nerfing killers until soloQ can escape regularly is simply flawed.
When was soloQ worse than it is right now, just a few months ago? Because, the past year or so has been some of the worst experiences in the game I have ever had. I would have no problem agreeing with you if the game offered in game comms, or some way to interact with your team better. The fact is they do the opposite of facilitate communication, there are tools to actually hide yourself. If you wanted to go out of your way and try and get people in discord, or just in your party, in most cases you wouldn't even be able to.
If they were to go down a path of increasing communication between solo survivors I would have no problem saying you are right. Unfortunately, the path they are going down is the opposite. Using 3rd party programs and websites to play the game at a playable level on survivor should be embarrassing for BHVR.
I have no problem with them nerfing SWFs and buffing solo survivors, and I think just about everyone on the forums would agree. Yet they keep blanket buffing/nerfing either killers or all survivors. Which does nothing with the gap between solo and SWF. If I were to have a tier list with Solo survivors, SWFs, and killers. SWFs would be high S, killers would be low S, and solo survivors would be B or even C tier. That shouldn't be a thing, there should be handicaps of some kind to significantly reduce that gap.
The only arguments I have seen that solo survivors are good, is that streamers do escape streaks. Well if you watched those escape streaks, 9 times out of 10 they run a build in which they plan on letting their entire team die. They almost always use perks to play for hatch or a very quick gate opening. On top of that, their streaks are usually fractions of the games of killer streaks. If the best way to escape in a team based game is to not help your teammates, then there are significant problems with the base game.
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Aura perks teach killers to basically be blind when their aura perks don't work. I have had killers walk right by me after looking directly at me, when I was running distortion.
I had a huntress chase me for 4 minutes because she was so used to getting instant downs with her aura build. She could not get back into normal killer mindset, the aura build fried her brain.
I think NoED does something similar to killers, they get complacent knowing they have a crutch to fall back on. So they end up having terrible early and mid games, and then NoED kicks in and clutches for them.
What's the quote? If you are nothing without auras, you shouldn't have it.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738635#Comment_3738635
We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.
Disagree, they should just bring QoL features that give soloQ a chance to get somewhat close to SWF power level, of all players are decent.
No game should be balanced around bad players. Any decent SWF encounter is going to be bloodbath this way and you would see queue times skyrocket, like we have had in past. Before healing nerf queue times were usually around 5-10 minutes while playing survivor for me. Screw that...
All soloQ issues I have are connected to my teammates, not the killer.
It used to be like you said, whoever wanted it more won that game. it is no longer that anymore. If the killer plays seriously and the team isn't a 4 man, he wins 90% of the time.
No, it's still exactly like this and you proved it yourself.
The only times I lose, are if the map is extra tragic for me, or if it's a coordinated SWF
It's very simple, if you want to win majority of your games as survivor, then start looking for SWF. If you play soloQ, it's casual.
SoloQ is equivalent of no tunneling and no slowdown. If you play like this, you are not trying to win.
We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.
Why not? What pvp game balances around bad players?
Dota balances around tournament results and it works very well for them. I consider their balancing to be one of best, ever.
I am fine balancing around casuals for PvE.
DBD is not PvE game.
Just to put what you said together. You should give up on playing this game on your own and play with a SWF or lose. Is that correct? That's a very quick way to kill a game where most of the players are solo players. I get that you are a killer main but you have to see how this would be extremely bad for the overall generation and retention of solo players.
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Good luck, the forums are full of coped out their mind killers. The truth is no one cares about solo survivor, and if you play by yourself. The best thing you can do is go play a different game like this.
BHVR does not care about you or even acknowledge that you exist.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738513#Comment_3738513
he is the most free wins you could ever imagine
Have you tried Hag? There is not many survivors under 1k hours who can play against her.
Trapper just happens to be the killer that the community thinks is the worst.
I would say Freddy is worse...
The only times I lose, are if the map is extra tragic for me, or if it's a coordinated SWF that target my web gens
That seems right.
If the worst killer can dumpster 90% of the player base, then the game is probably not that hard.
It depends on specific killer and what counterplay is available.
Let's be honest, trapper is not really difficult killer to play. So if you lose depends mostly on survivors.
That's why I brought Singularity. There it depends on both your and survivors skill.
solo escapes
Solo is very important part. There it depends on your skill, your teammates skill and killers skill. It's just gamble.
You have crazy guys like JRM or Ayrun who had valid soloQ escapes, but it's rare.
But if you go full SWF? That's suddenly not that difficult bet, if you have access to enough decent players. At that point to lose you need combination of killer's skill and what killer/perks he is currently using.
This game is and always was about which side commits more for the win, is more likely to win. That didn't change and probably never will.
Correct, the vast majority of survivors are solo players and the game should be balanced around them not SWFs. Give the killer some extra currency for playing against SWFs and prevent them from losing pips. We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.
It used to be like you said, whoever wanted it more won that game. it is no longer that anymore. If the killer plays seriously and the team isn't a 4 man, he wins 90% of the time. Why would you expect solo survives to keep playing in a meta like this? You would need to be completely brain dead.
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@Chaogod said:
Slugging is 90% the result of a survivor playing bad.
If there's several people who are running around and making their presence extremely obvious then you are going to get slugged till it's safe to picked up.
If you ran to a side of the map with no hooks, you are going to get slugged.
Slugging is a punishment for being in a bad position or getting into a bad position. Also, it's no different than being on the hook since either situation you can't play the game. Except with hooks your closer to dying, which there's no real incentive to slug you over just hooking you.
There has to be consequences for you playing bad. To say otherwise is to assume you played PERFECTLY and made 0 mistakes.
You guys keep saying that slugging is a result of bad survivor play, and I don't disagree. But what about the situations where a killer just wants to slug one person and bleed them out? Why is it okay to leave that in the game? Many killers can indefinitely keep that person on the ground and there is nothing you can physically do.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738503#Comment_3738503
50 would be good enough, but Trapper is kinda noobstompy, show me Singularity.
Funny it's not like I am against considering most (important part) killers to be easy win with, because I consider most survivors bad. That's exactly like when I consider easy to win as SWF.
Both sides are easy if you make it to be.I have played 2 games as singularity that would hardly prove anything. I play a ton of trapper, he is the most free wins you could ever imagine. The only times I lose, are if the map is extra tragic for me, or if it's a coordinated SWF that target my web gens. Trapper just happens to be the killer that the community thinks is the worst. If the worst killer can dumpster 90% of the player base, then the game is probably not that hard.
On the flip side I play 90% survivor and getting 5 escapes in a row would take me a week. I would easily take a bet for 20 trapper wins in a row, before I took the bet for 5 solo escapes in a row.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738482#Comment_3738482
Then do it :) if you can of course, but doubt it.
Would be an interesting fail compilation for sure. If actually good survivors decide to stop it, you are without a chance.
That's why you can see something like 4 escapes streaks… It's almost like both sides can have it easy if you play to win by any cost.How many wins in a row would you be satisfied with until you agree that killer is easy? Is it infinity? I have a feeling it's infinity.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736981#Comment_3736981
There is like dozens of survivor perks that counters slugging very well, I don't understand how can you believe there is "very little" counterplay
On top of it, just playing well does counter it due to it's volatile nature, it's not like killers can do good slowdown while slug, only when they down survivors consistently
And this change doesn't work because killers can't know where downed survivors are, it works for hooks because the location is obvious, not for slugged survivors because they can very well hide within range
Also not to mention Bleeding out being longer is extremely ridiculous, it can literally hold the killer hostage and there won't be any counter at all to it
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737896#Comment_3737896
Slugging for 4k is not toxic or even problematic, trying to reduce it already shows you are killing the playstyle
Ill create a scenario, the game started, a bubba found and downed you in 30 seconds. He is now standing over your corpse, go.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738053#Comment_3738053
as many times in a row as I want.
Wanna host a stream?
50 wins in a row as trapper
If you are that good, do it without any slowdown and tunneling to prove a point even more.
If you get over 1000 as some killers did with Nurse/Blight you will become a legend of DBD...
Unless you do it like the 500 streak demo and for every win on stream there is 10 loses off stream :D
Your 4th statement proves that it's extremely easy to do. If you have to put restrictions on killers to make them not get a 4k, you are overpowered my guy. Wake up.
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@KoreWaPantsu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738053#Comment_3738053
"Run a Sabo build, it's easy!"
"I can play the trapper and go for 4k as many times I want, it's easy!"
Those two statements can't coexist, but thanks to gave me (the FOS person) the opportunity to show the others what a killer have to deal with: you chase someone, it takes time and sweat, you finally down them, and then someone arrives in front of you, sabotage the hook and now you're just stuck, everything was useless, your main objective is negated and you can't do nothing to little about it.
I'm waiting to see your stream of endless winstreak with the trapper.
PS: it's spelled "their", not "there". I'm a non-english person.
There are in almost every scenario 3-4 hooks in range of you when you pick a survivor up. Unless you greed for a very far hook, even if someone sabos, 90% of the time a hook is right nearby that you can still reach anyways. The reality is sabo heavily punishes killers who run scourge, and this drives them up a wall. So to sum this up, if you aren't running scourge 90% of the time, a sabo build won't actually do anything.
Here is something you probably aren't away about, the sabo time is still too long to get a sabo and take a hit. So if the killer is close enough you are in most cases trading to sabo. Making it once again, not worth doing.
Sabo really only shines in games where all 4 people are in on it. And the more we design games around SWF and killer, the more people will continue to look for other games.
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I don't have a computer good enough to record and play. I can send
you my nightlight stats if you really want them but I just recently
started recording the end game screens.Step 1. Only play trapper
if you have 2 good addons and one must be "The trapper sack" no matter
what. You have two options for the other addon "iridescent stone" or
"honing stone". Iridescent stone is going to be better against SWFs or
survivors trying to drive you nuts and for that reason it is the safer
option. "Honing Stone" will just destroy soloQ teams and is more
aggressive in getting quick 4ks against none SWF teams. The reason you
must use the trapper sack, is most of the time wasted on trapper is
running around picking up traps. You will lose 2-3 gens just setting up
your web if you don't play this addon.Step 2. Use Corrupt
intervention, Nowhere to hide, overcharge, and surge. Corrupt gives you
time to set up the traps, on top of either protecting your 3-4 gen or
pushing survivors to your web. Nowhere to hide since we have a kick perk
it pairs well with Overcharge. Overcharge because you want to be
protecting the gens in your web. Surge for the same reason you run
overcharge. The only perk here I would never remove is Corrupt
intervention, the other 3 can be up to you. I recommend running at least
1-2 regression perks that don't require you to scourge hook. The
play-style of iron grasp or Agitation to bring people further into your
web can be equally as strong. Just be aware that a lot of times hooking
someone in the basement can cause a team to give up and hurt your pips.
But if all you care about is winning then a basement hook is almost
always an instant win on trapper.Step 3. The game started now
what? Look around and see what the gens look like, try to find an area
with 4+ gens that you can almost entirely kill all looping or escapes. A
lot of times if a gen spawned in shack you can immediately setup around
that area. The goal is to put down traps in high traffic areas THAT
CANNOT BE SEEN or places that ALWAYS kill a loop. If you put a trap in a
spot where a survivor can see it on a loop, that's a dead trap against
good players. So basically in grassy areas along loops, next to window
vaults, in high traffic doorways, on stairs. A trick for stairs and
doorways is to place the trap slightly down or up the stairs so that it
can only be seen once that player has rounded the corner. If the trap
can be seen in the doorway from far away, they will see that trap.
Remember once you place a trap you cannot move it, it's important that
every trap you place is a good trap.Step 4. Don't get too caught
up in setting traps in your web, if someone is doing a gen inside your
web push them off and prioritize quickly trapping that area. Do your
best to both push people off web gens while also putting down decent
traps.Step 5. Your web is done now what? Easy you just patrol
your web and hit people that try to do your gens. If they run into your
web keep chasing, if they run away from your web, back to patrolling.
You will quickly get the hang of when it's good to keep chasing someone
and when its good to go back to your web. Just don't commit to a chase
long enough that they could finish a gen or get substantial progress on
it while you are gone. If you hook someone away from your web you don't
really need to pressure that hook just go back to your web. If you hook
someone in your web you can somewhat proxy camp and punish the unhook
and in a lot of cases this will result in a free trade. Don't camp so
hard that they can pull themselves off however.Step. Woweee the easiest win of your life.
"This is a repost from another thread, formatting might be trash".
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738053#Comment_3738053
Please record some of your gameplay to share with us. If you are easily getting 4ks as Trapper, clearly you know something many people don't know. Please share your strategy with everyone so they can learn.
If I had a nickel for every time someone came in and dropped a sweeping statement with no follow up or evidence to support the statement, yours wouldn't be the first.I don't have a computer good enough to record and play. I can send you my nightlight stats if you really want them but I just recently started recording the end game screens.
Step 1. Only play trapper if you have 2 good addons and one must be "The trapper sack" no matter what. You have two options for the other addon "iridescent stone" or "honing stone". Iridescent stone is going to be better against SWFs or survivors trying to drive you nuts and for that reason it is the safer option. "Honing Stone" will just destroy soloQ teams and is more aggressive in getting quick 4ks against none SWF teams. The reason you must use the trapper sack, is most of the time wasted on trapper is running around picking up traps. You will lose 2-3 gens just setting up your web if you don't play this addon.
Step 2. Use Corrupt intervention, Nowhere to hide, overcharge, and surge. Corrupt gives you time to set up the traps, on top of either protecting your 3-4 gen or pushing survivors to your web. Nowhere to hide since we have a kick perk it pairs well with Overcharge. Overcharge because you want to be protecting the gens in your web. Surge for the same reason you run overcharge. The only perk here I would never remove is Corrupt intervention, the other 3 can be up to you. I recommend running at least 1-2 regression perks that don't require you to scourge hook. The play-style of iron grasp or Agitation to bring people further into your web can be equally as strong. Just be aware that a lot of times hooking someone in the basement can cause a team to give up and hurt your pips. But if all you care about is winning then a basement hook is almost always an instant win on trapper.
Step 3. The game started now what? Look around and see what the gens look like, try to find an area with 4+ gens that you can almost entirely kill all looping or escapes. A lot of times if a gen spawned in shack you can immediately setup around that area. The goal is to put down traps in high traffic areas THAT CANNOT BE SEEN or places that ALWAYS kill a loop. If you put a trap in a spot where a survivor can see it on a loop, that's a dead trap against good players. So basically in grassy areas along loops, next to window vaults, in high traffic doorways, on stairs. A trick for stairs and doorways is to place the trap slightly down or up the stairs so that it can only be seen once that player has rounded the corner. If the trap can be seen in the doorway from far away, they will see that trap. Remember once you place a trap you cannot move it, it's important that every trap you place is a good trap.
Step 4. Don't get too caught up in setting traps in your web, if someone is doing a gen inside your web push them off and prioritize quickly trapping that area. Do your best to both push people off web gens while also putting down decent traps.
Step 5. Your web is done now what? Easy you just patrol your web and hit people that try to do your gens. If they run into your web keep chasing, if they run away from your web, back to patrolling. You will quickly get the hang of when it's good to keep chasing someone and when its good to go back to your web. Just don't commit to a chase long enough that they could finish a gen or get substantial progress on it while you are gone. If you hook someone away from your web you don't really need to pressure that hook just go back to your web. If you hook someone in your web you can somewhat proxy camp and punish the unhook and in a lot of cases this will result in a free trade. Don't camp so hard that they can pull themselves off however.
Step. Woweee the easiest win of your life.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Alternatively:
Get picked up by another survivor!
You dont need to punish the killer just because survivors are unwilling to help each other.
Bubba is camping the body, now what?
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Killers throw a hissy fit the second the game doesn't go there way. Want proof? Do a sabo build for one game.
Anyone saying the game is harder on killer is FOS, the last two years has had the highest average killrates ever. The game could not be easier on killer. I can 4k on trapper (perceived as the worst killer) as many times in a row as I want.
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It's crazy people still think trapper is bad. Anytime I need to do a 4k challenge I immediately pick trapper. Using the addon for carrying all traps at the start and the free reset every 30 seconds is a nearly unwinnable situation for survivors. You can make a web around 3-4 gens and never leave your web from the start of the game. Even with the nerfs to how much you can regress a gen, it is still plenty.
It has been very funny to see killer mains try and gaslight people into thinking Vecna isn't at the very least very high A+ tier. I would rather play a Spirit or billy before I played against a Vecna.
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@ArkInk said:
I honestly think Franklin's and Weave Attunement is fine, it's just annoying to face. I understand why people don't like it, since it robs you of your item, makes you need to get rid of it so Weaving doesn't screw you, then adds oblivious on to be the cherry top.
I don't think any of those effects are overpowered for a double perk combo, especially with the other options available, but speaking from experience, yeah, it's frustrating.
On 2 story maps it's pretty much an instant loss for soloQ teams.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737937#Comment_3737937
If that's your only example of killrates dropping over time, then you are out of examples.
Wesker?
I don't really bother about this enough to pay nightlight subscription and check every killers kill rates.
I can also use Vecna as an example. His kill rate already dropped and he wasn't nerfed yet. It will drop even more after the nerf and pick rate.
Killers don't know how to play the killer
When you are playing, you are simply forced to learn faster as killer than survivors who only sometimes play against it and often don't get to play whole match. How is that difficult concept?
If you believe this than you believe all killers play the PTB and all survivors don't, but that would be an insane belief.
First of all PTB is only for steam players. Also majority of players don't care at all about PTB, or read updates.
Killers don't know how to play the killer and survivors don't know how to play against them.
That's why I said except killers with high skill floor. There is an opposite effect. Kill rate starts low, then increase. How much increase depends on what counterplay is available to survivors.
For this best example is Singularity. Very high skill floor and very easy counterplay, so kill rate is terrible to this day.
Yeah I just checked the unkown and his killrate never went over 60%, so that doesn't really fit. He has been within 1% of where he is now since he came out.
Weskers killrate was no where near this, he actually got buffed remember, people were memeing on him.
Singularity is just not a good killer in general. He requires an insane amount of play to just do much worse than the S tier killers. He has both a very high skill ceiling and cap, and he won't ever perform as well as the S tier killers. He in my opinion could do with a buff.
I don't understand how hard it is to admit that Vecna definitely needed a nerf, and likely the nerf he gets is not going to be nearly enough. I suspect after the nerf his killrate will still be around 68% and even with your suspected drop from people getting used to him. Which would still put him at the top for killrate. The closest killrates to him are of killers that people almost always give up against, which significantly increases their killrate.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737929#Comment_3737929
How was Unknown nerfed? And Unknown had also around 70% kill rate with many posts on forum asking for nerf.
His current kill rate is slightly under 60%. What else changed other than survivors adapting?
Do you believe survivors know how to play against the killer from first day? If answer is no, it means kill rates are always boosted at start and will lower to some extent.
I meant to say, killers in general got nerfed in-between the Unkown getting released, and his killrate going down. That isn't a natural drop. If that's your only example of killrates dropping over time, then you are out of examples.
Killers don't know how to play the killer and survivors don't know how to play against them. The argument that the killrate starts high and goes down doesn't make sense. Only in the scenario that all survivors don't know how to play against the killer and all killers know how to play that killer already. Would that statement make sense. If you believe this than you believe all killers play the PTB and all survivors don't, but that would be an insane belief.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737914#Comment_3737914
Every killer that has had close to that killrate has been nerfed,
Oh really, how was Unknown nerfed?
Wesker didn't get any major changes as far I remember.
Vecna is already getting, which I find disappointing, same as Xeno. You should first fix all bugs so we can see intended version before dealing with balancing issues.
Or are you saying the killrates fall naturally?
Of course they do. It's an expected outcome. It happened to every killer even before they received any changes.
Vecna's kill rate is already under 70% and it used to be higher at start.
Killer is forced to learn how it works faster than survivors. Real power level can be decided only when survivors catch up.
When survivors learn counterplay, kill rate is going to drop. How much depends on how effective counterplay is.
I haven't been watching enough to know if any of that is true. What I do know is killers in general have been nerfed in between the unknown getting nerfed and his killrate going down correct?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737899#Comment_3737899
I just wish more killers cared about a fair game.
This is not about fair game. Just a skill issue.
Vecna has one of the highest killrates we have ever seen
Unknown had exactly same kill rate.
Almost every killer had higher kill rates than any other killer upon release. Only exceptions are killers with higher skill floor.
I had spend several hours in custom game against Vecna just to find his limits and what to do. Most survivors won't do it and it will take several weeks before it becomes public knowledge.
Every killer that has had close to that killrate has been nerfed, why do you assume Vecna is different? And I would argue that Vecna is easier to play than the killers who have had a killrate as high as this.
I just don't understand why you think Vecna is any different, why would that killrate be allowed to stay over the ones before him? Or are you saying the killrates fall naturally? How would you know that if every killer you alluded to received a nerf pass?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737844#Comment_3737844
That is information that cannot be shared.
You don't need to. Every survivor can find out themselves. Everyone has the option since first second of the game.
It has everything to do with how good players are.
Every survivor has option to prevent the item getting into loop. If they fail at it, that's their mistake.
I am telling you the distance between loops is plenty big enough for him to hit you.
You don't need different loop against mage hand. The loop you are in is more than enough.
A good killer can basically spawn them on top of your hit box, making it not dodge-able at all.
Even that can be easily dodged as long you can see Vecna, because the animation is displayed quite well.
If you can't see Vecna, then Vecna is guessing too. You need very precise distance for this to work.
The time you have to run between the skeletons is in most cases less than a second.
Killer just lost bloodlust and gave you 4 meters extra distance. How is that not good enough for you?
Skeletons are highly limited and in most situations simply hindrance to use.
I guess well have to disagree until both inevitably get nerfed. I just wish more killers cared about a fair game. They seem to only care when survivors have the tiniest edge on them. As soon as killers even remotely outperform, everyone defends it to the ends of the earth or tries to gaslight you.
Vecna has one of the highest killrates we have ever seen on the fanmade cite right now. I know it isn't "official" but when comparing to the other numbers it's obvious the killer isn't balanced atm. Even if you just played just a few games against, you would also get that something isn't right. I have played maybe 8 games against him so far, and I think only one person has escaped so far.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
There needs to be something to deal with this yes, but I don't think basekit Unbreakable is it. It's way too abusable.
The issue is, BHVR needs to come up with something fair, something that doesn't allow for a SWF to just abuse it with perks like Plot Twist or something, and that doesn't penalize the Killer for an honest mistake or a good play using a down for pressure properly (that is, not slugging toxically). The proposed solution before didn't do that, and people hated it as a result.
If it is going in the game, then like the AFC and the anti-3gen, it needs to ONLY mostly punish people who do it on purpose. Not anyone else. That's a delicate balance to try and strike especially when some Killers do down pressure really well.
I think if you do something as simple as, allowing survivors to bleed themselves out. It would significantly reduce slugging for the 4k. And if you add the camping a body unbreakable, then the chances of them forcing a slug game also significantly goes down. You don't need to kill ALL slugging to address slugging, you can just reduce the chances of it happening without entirely killing the play style.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737832#Comment_3737832
The problem with Weave Attunement is your teammates, not you. I cannot control if my teammates bring items and whether or not they figure out what perks the killer is using. I will just die faster than normal and realize after the game ends that my teammates item was used to kill me. What was my counter play in that situation? Because that's exactly what happened when I encountered this perk combo.
So issue are teammates, not perk.
I am not going to consider perk to be broken, when it works only on bad players. There is a counterplay and survivors are even told about the perk. What more you want from it?
I think the biggest issue with Vecna is the items you get in the chests aren't very good or nearly impactful enough to have a fighting chance.
Boots for haste and ability to see the orb are amazing items you should try to get in every game. Roll 20 items are kinda broken (hand more than eye)
Mage had reversion and nerf is welcome, but I don't think it will actually stop mage hand from being a near guaranteed hit.
It's bad on short loops or loops with window nearby. Even more so if you get haste from boots.
The only way to dodge the skeletons is to just have distance on him, if he gets close enough you are just dead 90% of the time.
That's not true. Vecna has huge delay before he can attack. It's impossible to down survivor with it with standing pallet nearby unless the survivor screwed it.
If you learn how to run between them, which is easy, Vecna just lose lots of distance.
Crouching is easiest counterplay you can get.
It has nothing to do with how good your teammates are, you cannot talk to your teammates. That is information that cannot be shared. No matter how good you or your teammates are, Weave Attunement by design has no counter play for the people who don't know the item was even dropped.
The orb is the only one that will get you any value, agreed. The other ones just aren't worth wasting the time on them. Both of the nat 20 items take a health state to use, and with how difficult and limited heals are. It is not worth it to give a health state for something that isn't even a guaranteed get away. Both tell the killer where you went, if it was a clean get away I would use them. But both are basically giving you a few seconds of breathing room, which could have been gotten by just giving up the health state to a hit. If you add the time you are looping to avoid that first hit, they both become no longer worth using.
With how they are designing maps now, it is pretty rare to have loops feeding into other loops. On 90% of loops on most maps, this is just going to be a free hit. I am not a bad player, I have beaten the person who is considered the best Sadako in the world. I am telling you the distance between loops is plenty big enough for him to hit you.
The time you have to run between the skeletons is in most cases less than a second. A good killer can basically spawn them on top of your hit box, making it not dodge-able at all. All crouching does is shift where your hit box is, this is not some magic skeleton tech. If the skeleton goes through you, you are getting hit, regardless of how low you can go.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737822#Comment_3737822
I have never said "you" were against it. Just players in general.
You can try to convince me and explain why they are broken. I like to argue about things.
I my opinion, Weave attunement has primitive counterplay and you can find out killer has it in first second of the match. Why is that supposed to be broken? You can argue it's not fun for you, but that's about it.
Vecna depends which aspect of his kit. Mage hand can be without a counterplay, because of a bug. I can agree on this aspect, but that's about it.
I think Vecna is going to be quite weak after mage hand is nerfed. Low impact powers with enough counterplay, huge cool downs with additional mechanic to make him even weaker.
Ignore everyone else I am just here having a conversation with you. You claim both sides will endlessly defend what is OP on their side. I am proving that I am completely for balancing OP survivor perks because it brings more options.
The problem with Weave Attunement is your teammates, not you. I cannot control if my teammates bring items and whether or not they figure out what perks the killer is using. I will just die faster than normal and realize after the game ends that my teammates item was used to kill me. What was my counter play in that situation? Because that's exactly what happened when I encountered this perk combo.
I think the biggest issue with Vecna is the items you get in the chests aren't very good or nearly impactful enough to have a fighting chance. Rather than just keep nerfing him I think they should focus on making the items actually worth getting.
Mage had reversion and nerf is welcome, but I don't think it will actually stop mage hand from being a near guaranteed hit. My longest chases against him so far, have been just me W keying away from him with Lithe. Anytime I try to loop him it ends very very quickly. The only way to dodge the skeletons is to just have distance on him, if he gets close enough you are just dead 90% of the time.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737506#Comment_3737506
No matter how overpowered something is, killers will defend it.
No matter how overpowered something is, players will defend it.
It's not just killers, it's both sides... You have no idea with how many survivors I had to argue over MFT, or CoH.
I am a survivor main, and I also called for CoH, DH, and MFT nerfs. Mainly because it did not feel good to have perks that were insanely more powerful than anything else you can do. For that reason, I would be okay with then nerfing WoO, but that's as far as that list goes. Nothing else feels like it's set and forget, every other perk is a choice. The only thing close to being set and forget is the exhaustion perks. You would need to overhaul that entirely and with how BHVR nerfs survivor stuff, they would likely be killed entirely.
So I have admitted, will you do the same for Vecna and Weave Attunement?
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@TeamSoloQ said:
I don't understand why they didn't add anti camp to downed bodies, common sense. I have had killers who just hump the bodies until bleedout, but somehow that isn't bannable lol.
The system they came up with was met with so much push back (from both sides) it ended up being scraped. They are likely still thinking about ways to deal with slugging, but for now we just have to wait.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i'd just make it grant borrow time to person unhooking as well.
Pretty sure it use to work like this and killers cried until it got removed. Survivors are not allowed to have good perks, once you learn that, the games not so bad.
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No matter how overpowered something is, killers will defend it. I got a lot of push back for saying Vecna might be too strong, and here we are, getting nerfed already.
I have so far (luckily) only played against one person doing this so far, and boy was it a blood bath.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737024#Comment_3737024
But killer won't be able to fight back, if survivors have perks....
Nothing like this can be implemented as long there are strategies/situations when only option killer has is slugging.
Which doesn't really work when Sabo was just buffed.
If the killer only ever has the option to slug then that situation should also be mended. Both slugging and the need to slug should be addressed equally. It seems however that DBD is only interested in taking away the survivors ability to force the killer to slug.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
Why should the killer be penalized for the blunder of the survivor player?
If a killer wants to slug someone from the very beginning of the game there is very very little counter play when it comes to getting that person back up. I don't see how that is fun and fair game play. You can't leave open the opportunity for people to take advantage of exploitative game play.
I am not even talking about situations where the entire team gets slugged and loses, that is absolutely their fault for that happening, but even the fix I proposed wouldn't impact that outcome.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735738#Comment_3735738
the reason they can’t be strong is because of people complaining. There is no way current adrenaline or even current dead hard would be allowed to release today because they would get a lot of backlash
Yea I never once compared survivor perks to killer perks. They keep glossing over the part where I bring up that at least half of survivor perks aren't even worth the slot. I am comparing bad survivor perks to good survivor perks, and many are very very bad even in context of them being weak because they are survivor perks. A survivor perk can be good without it being better than a killer perk, right now they release perks that aren't even good in the context of it being a survivor perk.
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My only question for killer mains is. How much higher should the kill rate be? Is some killers having nearly a 70% kill rate not enough? What numbers would you be happy with?
Joking aside, killrate is higher than it has ever been. If I were you I would be very very quiet, and enjoy the game while it lasts.
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The change won't do much imo. I have yet to escape just one game against him, I am a soloQ survivor tho, so the devs don't really think about me at all.
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I think the situation of addons has sort of gotten out of control because the blood web does exist, and there needs to be something of significance coming from spending your blood points. So we have a situation where the addons and items coming from the blood web HAVE to be decent or people just won't interact with the mechanic as a whole.
In a perfect world I would love a pre-gen phase where the killer and survivors would basically be able to find items and addons. But you would first have to deal with the fact that the blood web would need an entire overhaul.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736757#Comment_3736757
So then why are we wasting time on vecna?
I am for nerfing killers that feel unfair, regardless of how good they are perceived. The problem with nurse is that she is both tragic in the hands of 90% of players, and oppressive in the hands of the rest. She would need an entire overhaul to address that issue, one that the devs don't feel is worth it. Is making her more accessible to everyone worth gutting her top end potential? I don't think so, a lot of killer mains would not be happy with a nurse rework.
Vecna has a different issue than nurse, which is that his game-play currently allows very little counter-play, if none at all. Even the nerfs that were proposed by the devs will likely have little impact on the current situation of Vecna. The truth of the matter is guaranteed hits feel terrible, it's one of the reasons why I can't stand playing against legion. It doesn't feel good to lose a health state simply because that's how the killer works, that is just dogshite game play imo.
Currently Vecna just straight up feels unfair when it comes to mage hand, where as nurse can be outplayed. Albeit it takes very good play on your part to outplay her, the counter-play still exists.
I wouldn't have a problem with nurse being reworked or nerfed (as a survivor main), but I don't think it would be good for the game. Just like I thought the DH and MFT nerf were good for the game. Having perks that are set and forget are not fun, but also having perks that are so meaningless that it wouldn't be worth the slot is equally as bad. We have like 4 gen perks at this point that actually slow down your gen progress.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736278#Comment_3736278
There is counterplay; you just apparently aren't good enough.
Though I'm sure you have no problem with just how survivor sided the new map is; the portals allow legitimate infinte loops for survivors to use that screw over M1 Killers. There are too few hooks in the dungeon, making it easy to turn into a dead zone.
The only advantage the Killer has is that both gates are incredibly close to one another and even then you can't stop multiple survivors from opening both at once.
I guess well disagree until you decide to look up some good videos of the new killer.
I have a feeling the new map has a higher kill rate than you would expect. There are no god loops, nearly every pallet or gym is a weak style. There are plenty of dead zones outside. You can literally pull survivors out of portals if you time it correctly.
The first few times I played it, it definitely felt like it did not favor the survivor team. But, after having played it a few times, if both sides know the map well, it's fairly even. I don't like the map as a survivor, but I would prefer it to some of the other very killer sided maps.
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@OrangeBear said:
Because overpowered survivor perks can ruin the whole game. At least if a killer is overpowered, that does not effect the balance of other killers.
I would argue that the state of the killrate and the meta of regression gaming being left the way it was for soo long did more damage than all of the OP survivor perks combined. The game has never been more killer sided than it has been in the past year, and yet asking for good perks for survivor is apparently too much.
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@Brimp said:
bardic inspiration literally got buffed to be better. A gen progression perk got BUFFED. The last thing this game needs is for gen progression perks to be buffed even in compensation to base game mechanics (cough cough deja vu).
Bardic is only good if people are nearby to get use out of it, and it only becomes stronger than just doing a gen yourself if there are at least 2 people nearby. So you have to be turbo inefficient for the perk to be better than just spreading out and doing gens. I call these type of perks "bait" perks, because you actually do gens slower by using the perk.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736273#Comment_3736273
Yeah, it's not a guaranteed hit. I've used it and still had survivors outplay me and avoid the hit.
So drop the strawman argument and try a real one.
Then you aren't using it correctly, I recommend watching people use it. There is currently no counter play.