ReikoMori
ReikoMori
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@HugTheHag said:
To each their own. My opinion on this is that sure, their fun isn't your responsability. Tunneling is a valid tactic if you want to play like this.
However, you're purposefully preventing someone from playing a game, knowingly making it an especially unpleasant experience for them as though they were a bot and not a person. So in return, it's their right to express their dissatisfaction at you. If you push someone into a salt mine and give em tools to collect it, don't be surprised if they throw some in your face.
They were playing the game though? Their teammates left them on hook till second stage while the killer literally went and did patrols and other chases. Then they decided to heal under hook rather than putting some distance between themselves and OP before doing the risky conspicuous action that removes their safety net of base kit BT. The team made two high risk decisions that didn't pan out for one of them. The situation would have been completely avoided had they unhooked during first stage rather than waiting till second stage and could have been mitigated if they had of ran away from the area that they know is being highlighted for the killer before starting to heal so they weren't so out in the open.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3465208#Comment_3465208
yeah I dont really have an issue with it at large I just dont like how it rewards bad killers while being a lot less useful on good killers /high tiers.
That's a misconception people continue to have.
Killers at high tiers most certainly make use of bloodlust basically all the time. The killers who don't usually already have a strong mobility power, but with the exception of Nurse who physically can't reliably get it, everyone uses it. It's just tier 1 isn't necessarily the most noticeable thing to see on the survivor end of a chase.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
I’ll be happy when it’s over because it’s nothing but Uber tunneling and camping killers every single match. All 5 people bring the BP offering just for the survivors to leave with 5-10K while the killers leave with 40-50K base points. My last three matches were 5K, 8K and 10K because of tunneling and camping.
Add to that the fact that they made this event way easier for killer than survivor. All killers had to do to get cosmetics was collect an invite. Survivors had to collect it and then survive until exit gates were powered which is exceedingly difficult when you’re only getting tunneling and camping killers.
Then the discrepancy in how much easier it is for killers to get extra anniversary points (hooks, which they can get up to 12) vs completed gens, (there’s only 5 between 4 survivors)
This whole event was just poorly planned, unbalanced and has been made miserable by people who only seem to be out to ruin it for others.
Also the pallet spawn ability is worthless because is shatters the pallet as soon as you drop it so you can’t use the pallet to block a killer, only to stun them which rarely works if ever. No point in using the event abilities at all honestly.
Were you expecting an event power to be as useful as a regular pallet??
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For all the issues I have with the game these days and the level of burnout that I've never really recovered from. When the game is good IT'S REALLY FREAKING GOOD. I love horror as a genre and the fact that DBD has let me get to be in the driver seat of both iconic killers and some pretty cool looking survivors just feels really awesome. There aren't a lot of games like this one that have a good mix of cast and expression. I also still remember the old days when the game wasn't super popular and the community wasn't quite so hardcore with the all or nothing grindset mentality. I remember when I used to think about wanting to get a pc that could handle running dbd and streaming so I could try and become a fog whisperer. Not for clout, but because I wanted to just be on the bleeding edge of dbd content. That never really worked out, but I've got genuine good memories with this game.
It was like my main game when I going through a really dark time in my life and my mental health was basically crashing and burning. I would literally going to work, come home on my break, play a couple matches while eating lunch, then head back into the retail grinder. I remember when I saw Myers was added to the game and the moment I got my hands on him I didn't play anyone else for months. Then when Saw got a chapter I was super excited because Saw is one of my all time favorite thriller franchises. I don't play Pig anymore cause I got sucked into the grindset headspace around the time Legion came along. That's my go to, tryhard killer which honestly probably broke a lot of the passion I had for DBD.
The only chapters I don't own are Artist and Singularity and Ash. That said I wanna say thank you for making Skull Merchant, I know people hate everything about her and even I'm not a fan of her power even though I play her a lot, but I've been wanting a sassy unhinged female killer for so long! A proper yassified girlboss slaughterer because my favorite kind of horror is campy horror and to me she's quite camp with her cosplay otaku aesthetic juxtaposed with her day to day of being a vicious capitalist hatchet woman.
I mostly play killer, it's the more mechanically interesting role and has a ton of variety. Every killer's a unique ball of yarn to untangle for me. I like it when killer powers have a high degree of synergy with perks as i feel that build crafting is what keeps that role fresh even when the games aren't good. Also having power just feels nice, like I get a wicked rush when I'm playing a killer game where i get to feel like I'm in control of what I'm doing. Not necessarily dominating, but more like I'm able to tell what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong and make timely adjustments that produce results. Recently killer powers have been a bit more standalone and niche which has it's own high points. A lot of those powers are actually quite good in the right hands, but they take a lot to get the hang of and often just don't fit well perks. It can be hard to tell if I'm doing something wrong or if there is something about the survivors or other trial factors that are working against me.
I play for fun so I'm really only concerned with if I get a lot of bp win or lose. Winning feels awesome as killer, but I'm not addicted to it , I don't have to win, but I need to feel like I'm learning something. I have a very casual approach to the game these days so when I play I am looking for an experience that fun no matter the result. It does get very stressful though being a lone player against 4 other players when the skill levels are super stilted or I'm trying to learn a new killer, but can't. It doesn't always feel worth it to add more killers to the list of ones I know how to play currently. Like I've been wanting to try Dredge, but I know that matchmaking going to make that impossible and I've dipped my toe into playing Deathslinger which is a headache his limitations are pretty daunting starting out when going against good survivors. I don't want to go against bots or potatoes, but like it feels like most of the slinger games don't last long enough for me to have learned anything.
That's the downside to enjoying killer as much as I do. The killers I do well with I do really well fairly often, but it feels kind of punishing to try and move out of that comfort zone if a killer isn't either super cool visually or universally decent like Wesker. I like killer the most when I can comfortably try new builds and killers.
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@Lit said:
Have people started to notice the pallet roll back has become EXTEMELY in the killers favour.
I seem to remember that the survivors were meant to get a "roll back" for when they dropped the pallet before the killer.
But now, me and a bunch of others are experiencing it the other way and the killer is getting the hit even when the pallet is clearly down.
Several clips captured with good ping killers/survivors/servers and it seems that not only are killers getting pallet hits (like when the pallet is down and survivors on the other side of it) but also grabs/hits through windows.
Anyone else experiencing this and do we know if the Devs know about this? and do they care?
Alright so I think you might be confused on something
Rollback is when a game reverts to a previous moment. To my understanding DBD doesn't really do this, but instead tries to match up the two true realities between what a survivor sees on their client and what a killer sees in their client. It tries to do this as fairly as possible, but that will result in some times getting very wonky scenarios. It's usually pretty noticeable on actions involving pallets, windows, and gen grabs. It's literally sometimes just a flat 50/50 chance whether you get grabbed/hit or vault away/stun the killer.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463736#Comment_3463736
If 1 out of 20 games are not fun why would I play it out when I can go next and get to a more fun game?
I'm not sure why people get so tilted if someone dc's.
Not encouraging it, but I personally just detach myself from the game emotionally and try to get good chases before I die. The games are like 5 minutes on average.
It's a very overblown issue imo, and if we're going to have a real discussion about it then we will need to discuss how killers cause the overwhelming amount of dcs and self hooking due to their playstyles and how said playstyles need to be taken away.
The solution isn't practical, punishing self hooks isn't practical, so I'd imagine in bvhr's eyes it's a very low priority topic.
It's not overblown though, people regularly do this all the time and it used to be worse before they added DC penalties to the game.
Like you're statistically harming 3 other players by not playing out the match. Everyone wants to have fun and no one wants to do things that aren't fun, but people in DBD has a bad habit of just throwing a fit when things don't go their way. It's a team game at the end of the day and if you can't handle doing the bare minimum of being on said team even when you're not having fun you probably shouldn't play this game. If you want to get the maximum benefit of fun without having to deal with the responsibilities associated with playing as a member of a team go play single player games or multiplayer games that are actually more forgiving on all parties involved if someone decides to leave.
It's not that hard. Also I'm not even in favor of punishing self unhooks cause that is literally insane, but people should consider whether or not they actually want to play DBD before they queue up. The folks just dipping outta the games are the ones being overly emotional, not the people who actually are trying to play the game only to be screwed over when people act super selfishly. I say this as someone who actively benefits from people leaving since most of my time is spent on killer. The game is worse off when people suicide on hook or dc just because they don't like something.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463874#Comment_3463874
Announcing the date save files are transferred wouldn't stop them from being able to change the date of a PTB. We already know roughly when a PTB will release anyway, and that hasn't stopped them from delaying it by a day or two.
We get chapters roughly every three months so you should start saving up your bp at around the 9th week after a killer drops.
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@Rudjohns said:
It's literally the ugliest map in the game right now
What happened to the colours? Holy S*
Let me guess: people who use some shades were complaining about it and they change it? The map was totally fine before.
Scratch marks are orange, Toba landing is also orange. One of the things needed to change and it wasn't gonna be scratch marks. Toba Landing is also jam packed with enough audiovisual stimulation to be a cognitohazard. Scaling colors back a little helped greatly for those who play killer or don't enjoy being overstimulated to the point of sickness.
Me? I run reshade so Toba landing for me is already set to look EVEN MORE COLORFUL than what originally looked like. It's so tacky and disgusting bright, I love what reshade did for it and I love the way Skull Merchant drone fields are basically invisible on that map.
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@mikewelk said:
'so and now this thread can be moved back to feedback where it dies like all other contributions to this topic' is definitely what will happen. Once everyone starts using a VPN they MIGHT do something but even now, as prices get lower than ever, they haven't attempted anything to counter it.
They already do use a vpn
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@Vlarian said:
I've come back after a 10 month break, and here's what I've found:
Gen speeds are pretty darn fair.
The killer buffs (like 15% break speed I think?) have made holding W much less viable, so survivors have to think a bit more when moving to different loops
Solo Queue is very viable now! HUD changes are beautiful BHVR
The perk meta (from what I've come across) is also pretty darn fair! Sure there are still some stronger than others but perks are alot less game changing. Remember when you'd see 4 Dead Hards, 4 Decisive Strikes, 4 Borrowed Times? Now skill is much more valuable which is super healthy and a lovely change to this game.
Tunneling is alot harder! I'm glad BT isn't a must have every game now. Certain killers still feel a bit unfair with camping or other frowned upon strategies (slugging, 3 genning, etc) but BHVR are working on discouraging that too!
The accessability is much better than before, perk slots, practice bots, search bar, etc
THE GRIND!!!! SOOOOOOOO much better. I feel like I can genuinely get alot of things, and I know alot of my friends love the feeling of P3'ing a character and being able to have a single build on everyone,.
The survivors? Still equally as strong, even with all the nerfs, as a survivor main I can say I know most of my games are lost through skill rather than a perk or a tool.
And so.... I log back in the forums, and I STILL see people complaining about a certain side being OP, or a certain killer needing nerfs, or this, and that,
I am really perplexed.
The only major problem I can see in the game is certain maps being unbalanced, and a few killer powers encourage unfun playstyles, but overall I think this game is in it's best state yet.
What do you think?
With many things in this game on paper, stuff looks really impactful, but in practice a lot of it isn't impactful much at all.
Increased break speeds would be impactful, but there is also twice as many things to break now and a lot of it is not negotiable.
Gen speeds seem fair at base, but currently most games aren't being played at the prescribed average pace. It's being played much faster due to an abundance of gen repair speed perks and toolboxes that have been left unchanged for around 7 years for the most part. While gen regression across the board much worse and more situational. This is something that is directly effected by your MMR as the way games are played varies wildly from high to low.
SoloQ is the king of "Your mileage may vary" as the most common reports are generally really lackluster experiences. Having the hud update did make a tangible difference, but the hud can't really make players better to play with. Information used poorly is about the same having no information at all.
The changes to perk meta have shifted the game into a somewhat better position in overall balance, but it has also shifted the way people play into much more competitive and chase oriented gameplay that not everyone likes and technically a lot of killer designs can't keep up with as they aren't built for it powerwise and there is no itemization or perk builds that fill the gap enough to help the killers who are really struggling. In all honestly, the meta just shifted back to older exhaustion perks and gen repair so funnily enough we're in a pre-dead hard/ pre Dstrike meta from 2016, but with the addition of new stuff.
BT is still a must have, but the issue is you get BT for free every time you get hooked. So what ends up happening is survivors get unhooked and then rather than run away as BT is supposed make them less of a chase target instead of the unhooker, they weaponize it to bodyblock someone whose healthy usually and doesn't need the help which then makes them strategically the most viable target to focus. So it hasn't helped deter tunneling as they just force killers to tunnel them.
Accessibility is a rare Behaviour W, but currently all the accessibility aside from colorblindness stuff is survivor side only. They are supposed to be working on something to help killers with FoV issues that lead to motion sickness, but we're still a ways out from that materializing.
The grind has had a lot of sting taken out of it in some ways, but has been worsened in others. Shrine of Secrets is effectively useless as a grind reduction tool now as every tier of a perk can purchased rather than just he perk full stop. Which means it's basically impossible to convert iri shards in to bp by buying perks you already have unlocked because you most likely won't have all the tiers of a perk unlocked through prestige unless you're playing and leveling characters for thousands hours.
You've also been away for 10 months while a lot of us have been playing or staying involved with the game during that entire time period so we've been able to experience the granular issues that still exist in the game along with the new issues that have popped up over time. So our experiences are often going to be colored differently by the nature of what we have or haven't experienced on a regular basis. Also the game is constantly getting new players that only come to the forum when they encounter something they don't understand or can't deal with. You will also have more complaints than feel good posts as just generally speaking, people who are satisfied with the game usually aren't on the forum, they're playing the game.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463717#Comment_3463717
He’s good on Midwich. I dunno about other indoor maps. But if Midwich is anything to go by then I’d say he’s fine.
Midwich is the exception rather than the rule due to being one of the only indoor maps with relatively clean and long sight lines that survivors can't bypass. Lerry's and RPD are god awful for him.
@Roaroftime said:
Now that people have had time to learn how to play singularity he's become extremely overpowered in solo q games, if you don't have chance to get an EMP and he finds you you're literally screwed, his power makes it SO easy to tunnel you out because his teleport is extremely overpowered and he spawns way too close to you with no time to get to a pallet or vault at all and it has no cooldown whatsoever?
That's just extremely overpowered and it makes it so easy to tunnel someone out I don't understand how anyone can say that his teleport isn't overpowered? In solo q teammates don't help by bringing EMP's and as soon as you get rid of the gum ball thing with an EMP he just puts another on your back and teleports RIGHT behind you as many times as he wants and pallets are useless like what are you seriously meant to do - you have not time to grab an EMP when he's started to tunnel you and teammates in solo q don't help at all. Anyone else experiencing unstoppable tunnelling by singularity?
His teleport does have a cooldown in the form of lock on wake up time which is 1.7 seconds and short lock out cooldown on teleports for 3.5 seconds from bipods.
EMPs take 100 seconds to print automatically, but only 25 seconds if you actually interact with the cases.
Overclock only lasts 4.7 seconds unless multiple people are infected which adds another second. They can be forced out of overclock with a pallet stun even though the does nothing it forces them into overheat which lasts 3 seconds and causes a movement penalty. Singularity has lots of little things that make him very clunky to play and using his power is actually quite disorienting. You have more than enough at your disposal to deal with and from what I've read of most people experiences on the forum he's still heavily gated by proper emp usage, but that's a survivor side issue where you and your teammates need to be more in sync rather than the killer being overpowered because trust when I say, he's not if you play him you'll understand what I mean.
He can seem very strong, but he really isn't that strong.
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@bubblegummy25 said:
You can't force people to stay in a game when they don't want to play.
There's just too many killers and maps at this point that survivors or killers don't like, or playstyles like camping and tunneling at 5gens, and instead of playing people just want to go next.
And i personally don't blame them when the killer is knight artist spirit nurse or skull merchant.
While I don't want to force people to stay in games, that's a pretty crappy attitude to have.
They've turned on DBD and went through the process to get into the game and by giving up they're actively ruining the game for others. If folks aren't willing to commit to playing a game out they should consider whether or not they should be playing the game at all. Perfect example happened to me last night, I play Skull Merchant and down a Feng and they dc the moment I pick them up. Didn't tunnel them, wasn't camping, didn't even attempt to hold gens, just play regular m1 killer chases. They threw their toys out of the pram and dc on their first down which hurt their team.
Why even play this game specifically if you can't handle playing a game out? To me it just seem like if you're just gonna give up on first hook or dc maybe you don't actually want to play dbd. People playing Knight, Artist, Spirit, Nurse, or Skull Merchant doesn't absolve them of blame for being bad players.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463449#Comment_3463449
The maps are literally in the killer's favor with a power like this. Doesn't killer instinct activate when survivors enter the terror radius? Just hold W in a direction for 5 seconds and you'll probably see somebody.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463409#Comment_3463409
Skill is largely irrelevant in this game for survivors. Once you learn the basics there really isn't much more to learn. You run at the same speed with no sprint ability. There are only pallets and vaults to use which are limited. The game is very basic. We don't exactly have a lot of options when in chase with the killer. Its really just run until you get downed or the killer chases someone else.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463450#Comment_3463450
Killers can break pallets. Survivors cannot mend and are forced to endlessly move if chased with deep wounds or they will be forced into the dying state. What is the survivor supposed to do in this situation with having to deal with deep wounds that only goes away if you mend it? Its completely unfair that legion can abuse this power on a single survivor when its designed to help them find other survivors.
So to clear something up here about Legion's killer instinct and Feral Frenzy.
At base Feral Frenzy only lasts for 10 seconds and Killer instinct only procs after you hit the first person. So you really don't have time to hit someone and then run to find someone else if they aren't already close enough to be in your TR. Legion has a TR of 32-40 meters as well so they can a track good bit further than they can travel with their remaining frenzy time. Coming out of Frenzy incurs a 3 second fatigue state and the cool down is 20 seconds before they can Frenzy again. Even with addons you can't greatly increase the length time you have in frenzy or reduce the cooldown period by all that much. They used to have addons that were much more geared towards giving them near constant up time on Frenzy, but several addon passes has greatly reduced that.
Killer Instinct as tracking feature also isn't as precise as used to be as it used to pulse directly on the survivor when Legion was the only killer that had it. When Ghostface was added to the game they rebalanced Killer Instinct to be less precise as now it pulses more on where the survivor was rather than exactly where they are so what you see isn't where the survivor is, but just where they happened to be on that exact moment yet you need think that they have moved further head by about second or so.
The counter to Legion is for teams to split up because it massively shortens their power's usefulness. Tracking does them no good if they can't capitalize on it effectively, they can't get their incremental speed increases, they can't proc their lethality buff by hitting everyone and then the first person again. So most of the time Legion's only really got enough time to run up to you hit you and then commit to a regular chase. It's not tunneling, it's just a consequence of what they are made to do and how little leeway they actually have to do it.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463513#Comment_3463513
yea, thanks to servers. Idk why but these days sometimes you start lagging and I am not the only one who is expericing this as some people reported this too.
But also why the cage doesn't move to different location when he just sits there...
The cage will only reposition if Pyramid Daddy is within 5 meters of you for at least 3.5 seconds. So he can be extremely close to you and still not actually be in the trigger zone for relocation.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
I typically enjoy playing demo out of all the killers, I see a few toxic survivors but I feel like people enjoy going against him, honestly wish I felt like this when I play other killers like legion or pig
People still haven't let their hate of Legion go in a lot of ways so we forever trapped in the no love zone. At least there is hot brazilian lady also in the no love zone to talk to.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463437#Comment_3463437
Yes. 1 Map.
While killers get use of their power on every map?
I wish there was no abilities at all, for no one. The event would be 100% better.
My guy, there are god windows on every map. On some of them there is more than one, survivor abilities are useful pretty much all the time.
You're good.
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@patronsaintofpizza said:
I keep seeing all over social media and even have friends that say their survivor games are nothing but slugging, camping, and tunneling. I primarily play solo queue and play it A LOT and rarely encounter these things in matches and if I do they're even more rarely super egregious cases.
Tonight I played solo queue for almost 5 hours, and had some light camping in a few matches during EGC, no apparent tunneling, and only one instance of slugging. I never understand why people say solo queue is so bad when the majority of my matches are fine. Even when I have days of almost no escapes, the games are still mostly fun.
Is the problem really that bad and I'm just a rare exception? Curious to hear from others.
Short answer: It depends/Your mileage may vary.
Some regions are more competitive than others, certain times of day are worst than other times. Like I'm on the east coast of the US so if I play during the day till right around now 10-11pm my games are fine for the most part. If I play at 12am-7am it is gen rush city and I mean with actual full stack 4man teams spec'd out specifically to finish the game as fast as humanly possible or I get 2 and 3 man sabo teams. I call it the witching hours and basically try to never play during those times as it sucks playing killer or survivor under those conditions because I like medium length high bp scoring games and I just don't get them in that time slot.
Events also bring out the best and worst dbd has to offer in players. Some people only play during events and ptbs at this point and range from genuinely uber chill farmers to people with attitudes that make them seem as if they are stuck in the 2017 dbd youtuber mindset where being obnoxious trolls was considered cool content. Thankfully I've not had any of that so far, but that means someone else surely is getting them.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3463075#Comment_3463075
So this is nerf for luck offerings and luck builds.
Do we really need to nerf survivors more? Are not survivors weak enough already
If anything needs to be punished it is people running luck builds and the persons who thought it was a good idea to make luck a stat in the game. It legit does one thing and it does it poorly at that.
Whenever I see someone running a luck build I know that is a teammate who is gonna kill themselves trying to get a kobe for the content.
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@Botiz said:
This past week almost every single grab I get on survivors just cancels and hits them instead, it feels like it's gotten much worse recently
Anyone else noticing this or just me?
It's always been very finnicky and prone to server validation as it just takes the survivor to stop doing their action for a split second and you'll more often than not just hit them instead of grabbing them.
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@vesperialol said:
okay now here me out i love friendlys from time to time but gawd damn with the new update (year 7) there has been to much friendlys then there are actual killers it's gone to a point where I've played five games and three out of the five was Friendly's it's gone to a point where I as someone who never plays Killer i have to play killer because I get no fun out of playing Survivor its just so sad
It's an event so there will be a lot of farming going on. That is how every major event has ever been and it's completely random what you will get because others are getting the other side of the coin where it's all unlimited sweatworks speedrunners
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@dbd900bach said:
The Singularity has a high skill ceiling so why are people expecting something out of him their first few games? No one is going to master him in a simple session.
After the latest buffs, Hux is now an extremely balanced killer who is punished heavily for making the wrong decision either in chase or simply where he placed a pod. This is regardless of emps which are drastically less plentiful and impacting.
Hux is now comfortably at the very least A tier, but struggles due to being reliant on maps which he struggles mostly on indoor maps or crowded maps due to there being poor sight lines. Otherwise he would have the potential to be top A tier in the hands of a player who's mastered him.
Placement don't really matter all that much as you can't place anywhere that can't be effected by emps and considering your more incentivized to place them mid chase rather than going through a setup phase unless you're on one of his good maps.
I also wouldn't say he's extremely balanced, but he's in a somewhat better state. He's over reliant maps and needs extremely clean sight lines as his power is thwarted by hiding be an inch wide pole. Overclock gives him a slightly shorter chase in certain situations, but using it seems to still work against him. He's probably B tier killer, but considering the difficulty of his gameplay and the clunkiness of power people aren't going to feel like investing time in is worth it. I think there are people who will play Hux like there are people who will play twins, but definitely seems like a niche killer who'll be great for comp players, but meh for average players.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Wraith gets stunned longer in stealth. Sadako doesn't.
Wraith can't pick survivors up while stealthed. Sadako can.
Until recently, Wraith could get light burned out of stealth while Sadako couldn't.
Given Wraith is a low tier killer, I don't see why he doesn't have these QoL changes too.
Wraith isn't low tier to start with, which doesn't matter cause tiers are a player assessment rather than development metric.
Wraith in general was just made with a different design ethos at the time and honestly the QoL stuff he actually has gotten has been tailor made to fit him specifically rather than just slapping on general things Sadako can do. Lightburn was a mechanical counterplay that was somewhat necessary back in the early days when the game was stealth focused and less chase oriented. Now there are betters ways to deal with Wraith and any other killer who had lightburn as feature. Wraith picking people up while in cloaked would be hilarious, but he'd also be doing wind sprints while carrying survivor which is a power reserved for Agitation. Wraith's stealth is just all around better than Sadako's so you gotta add some sort of soft counter to take the edge off him some so a longer stun value just makes sense.
If anything Sadako needs the QoLs that Wraith has because she is actually low tier and has one viable playstyle that ain't all that fun to do or deal with as survivor. I love Sadako, but that girl needs some help. TV spawns are pretty bad, lack of mobility is also pretty bad, and having a lullaby does her no favors either like she doesn't need to have that.
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@Mr_Madness said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462377#Comment_3462377
Not really, he was famous before the "Incident" which ngl sick of hearing cause it was later found out Slenderman was basically used as an escape goat when they kept changing stories on why they did it and they also stated Joker from Batman and TMNT are actually real.
Going to avoid that topic now since mods said to avoid talking about it real-life terrible incidents involving fictional characters but wanted to bring this point up because it's dumb blaming a fictional character instead of the real-life people.
Slenderman was extremely iconic mostly with the 8 pages and later Slender the Arrival which today the graphics are still amazing.
The best part of him is that you can make any horror story with him including and will still make sense because of his HP Lovcraftian theme. Crying out loud he actually shares a lot in common with the Entity since they always do the Cat and Mouse game with people.
Being internet famous and being iconic are two distinctly different levels of saturation. Slenderman gets hyped up alot but as a character Slenderman suffers from the same issues most creepypasta characters suffers from which is highly inconsistent portrayals and generally lackluster feats. The things that make Slenderman great for internet creepypasta and writing are the same things that generally make them trash for translating to other media formats. Since he doesn't have well defined lore and explanations of how anything he does functions, he can theoretically do and be anything as long as you adhere to the visual shorthand that denotes "Hey, this is supposed to be Slenderman". The problem with that is you end up seeing a lot of different Slendermen and none which are the definitive ideal portrayal.
That's part of the reason the film's bad along with there being a ton of Slender games that actually aren't all that good at conveying Slenderman as anything more than a drawn out jumpscare. The look is the only truly iconic thing about Slender. He's not even that popular on the internet anymore, like except the really diehard creepypasta lovers and diehard Slender fans his internet presence has fallen way off.
Yes he was famous, on the internet, before the incident, but he had basically zero mass market penetration. People who weren't already in the general ecosystems that get into creepypastas very much didn't know this was even thing that existed. The normans still don't know who or what a Slenderman and don't care to find out. FNAF has more mainstream appeal and I would even say that it isn't truly iconic yet as it hasn't manage to properly penetrate into realms in which the majority people consume content. Gamer and internet popularity are actually the last thing to consider for naming something an icon.
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@OrangeBear said:
Going off they said they are really iconic additions
Friday the 13th, Candyman, Alien, It (Pennywise), Chucky, Five Nights at Freddy's, Slenderman. Probably at least one of these will be one of the next two chapters.
Slenderman is anything but Iconic. It's an internet creepypasta whose only real mainstream acknowledgement happened when little kids got lost in the sauce and hurt someone IRL.
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@Riski said:
I've had a few matches so far of the new event and love playing with the new mechanics however whenever an event happens you find players (mostly killers in my experience) who just want to farm. On one hand play how you want, it's a game you paid for and you can do what you wish. On the other more compelling hand please play the game, the point of the game is the killer is trying to kill the survivors and farming isn't this at all it's quite the opposite. Personally this is on the same level of afk to me of not really playing the game. This also applies to survivors to a lesser extent but at the end of the day if the killer wants it to end they can just kill.
"But what about the bp" idc really. BP is a reward for playing well and it means nothing if I'm not being challeneged into playing well. I understand some people like BP but if I wanted to see big number go up I'd play a clicker game. "Why complain" relatively minor but when you're only playing for a couple of hours in the evening having even one or two matches wasted by people not playing the game feels bad when you want to play the game.
I wonder about the general consensis around this, if most people like this or not, and what people do if they find a farming killer and they don't want to join in. I personally try to just do gens and move on but I understand some people have different preferences to how to handle this, just feels like when you queue up you do make a silent agreement to go along and play with the spirit of the game and this just ain't it.
People usually farm during events so they can max out on bp and event challenge rewards. It's fine honestly because you could be getting the other thing people do during events which is play extremely sweaty and cause low scoring games for everyone which makes doing the event stuff harder and makes the games not worth it.
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@Rudjohns said:
We need BP or EXP incentives to play with the least-played killers
Like 100% BP if you play Twins
Offering more BP to play killers who aren't being played because the killer has fundamental design issues that makes them not feel good to play or that just generally lack a good mix of strength and fun won't solve anything.
Twins are super niche to start with and they feel really clunky to play. It's not an enjoyable experience for most players to put up with unless you're super into competitive play. They're strong, sort of, but not fun in a way that appeals to most of us.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461494#Comment_3461494
But then the killer would be able to tell exactly where the survivors have spawned (without a perk), they just go to the 'neutral zone', or the area without gens.
I didn't do a great job explaining this so let me give more detail.
The neutral zone box isn't meant to be a place that is accessible but just a place where survivors start. Since it's neutral it isn't affected by perks or killer powers and while it is attached to the edges of a map it doesn't have to be a static location. It doesn't even have to be at the edges of the map it could be above the map. You would need to restructure lethal pursuer and start of game addons that affect survivors to only proc when survivors enter the map. Now you'd also need to keep people from trying to cheese the benefit of having this neutral zone by all survivors being shunted out of it after a short period of time or when one survivor enters the map.
The goal is to get both the killer and survivor to roughly either start moving at the same time and limiting the ability of survivors from spawning in on separate gens.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461544#Comment_3461544
There are plenty of strong killers. There are plenty of fun killers. For whatever reason Wesker appeals to the sweat lords.
There are strong killers there are fun killers, but there aren't many Strong AND Fun killers. It's about both of those traits being in just the right balance. Wesker is decently strong while also being very fun. He's got a low barrier of entry because his power isn't overly complicated nor is stopped dead in its tracks by it's counter mechanic. People greatly underestimate the feeling of just being able to use your power and see something cool happen. He has enough mobility that chases are interesting and enough perk synergy you can run a lot of different builds on him, but he isn't super reliant on a specific addon pair or set of maps.
He allows the average player to just play the game without onboarding a ton extra stress. A lot of the other fun to play killers have the issue of being fundamentally flawed or too weak to reliably keep up with the game unless you stack the deck in your favor. Alot of the strong killers are mechanically difficult to get into and actually aren't that fun. Sure you'll have a higher win percentage, but along the way you're more likely to burn out. Wesker hit the sweet spot though where you get to be as strong as you are fun.
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457539#Comment_3457539
Sorry missed this. Mostly the knight, dredge, or wraith. I play freddy and ghostface quite a bit too. I like m1 killers. I'm not trying to be top dog, just slow the dang gens down haha
If you're playing m1 killers then sadly you're in for a struggle no matter what. It's not hopeless by any means, but it is just going to be harder consistently.
Wraith's pretty good, his speed and stealth can help with gen patrolling and keeping pressure up, but you're gonna have to commit to getting better at spreading your attention via hit and run. Gen regression across the board is just worse now, but you can still make use of it pretty well if you can keep pressure. Anti-heal perks would help as well to get players focused on burning up time healing rather than just staying on gens. It won't help against people who are confident in or actively seeking to play injured, but should be more helpful to you than not at all.
I don't really know anything about Knight other than he can hold a mean 3 gen.
I play Ghostface like a tiny Myers so I don't have advice that work for that.
For Fredboi I would say get perks info perks like discordance and surveillance so you can teleport to gens being actively worked on and push folks off of them and start chases.
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@pinwino said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461336#Comment_3461336
Thank you for showing that you're clueless about balancing.
It is literally impossible to balance the whole game taking in consideration all the killers/perks/addons/maps/swf/soloQ.
It's not impossible
That's what they do all the time because if you understood game balancing you know that you don't balance things in a total vacuum.
The way people think about game balance in this community is deeply flawed sometimes.
They're not balancing SWF and SoloQ as separate entities because they aren't separate entities. Their all survivors and the game functions the same no matter which way you play. The difference between SWF and Soloq is something no developer could balance around as it is an external factor. Hence you balance the survivor role, but not against itself but against killers, maps, items, addons, and perks.
Killer powers are balanced against maps, survivors, perks, items and addons. You have to do it that way so that killers don't have maps and setups that they are completely unstoppable on and situations where they absolutely can do nothing or with. Killers probably aren't balanced against each other directly as you don't play against other killers. They are however balanced around each other when they have overlapping systems like how when Legion was the only killer with killer instinct it was actually hyper accurate, but when Ghostface was added it got tuned to be slightly less accurate overall.
It is not impossible to take all those things into consideration as you have to or risk unbalancing the game in a way you don't want. Most multiplayer games are unbalanced because perfect balance in gaming is rare and usually undesired. DBD being asym is by design meant to be more unbalanced than most. The issue is often that the scale is tipping either too much towards the center or completely lopsided.
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Why even make the invitations do anything at all for either side?
Like it's okay to just make them collectables without powers attached.
Such a weird decision.
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@Seraphor said:
You can't have 'gens evenly spaced' and 'survivors spawn away from gens' at the same time, there's simply not enough space on the maps, especially as bigger maps are worse for killers. If gen placement is balanced, then everyone is going to spawn somewhat near to a gen.
They could just spawn all survivors and the killer in neutral zone boxes added to the edges of the maps or spawn the killer in the map directly and then spawn the survivors in a neutral zone box. That's a quick and dirty way to solve the problem of survivors just hopping on gens right out of spawns.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460381#Comment_3460381
Skull Merchant is new. You would expect people to don't learn how to play yet, and also you'd expect more people playing her casually out of pure interest to a new thing in the game. Both factors would make her have lower killrate, not higher.
She's new, but also extremely unliked which is key. People were not excited for her chapter due to wanting a predator crossover chapter or an emotionless cyborg killer. Like the expectations that had been built up absolutely crumbled for a lot of people when Skull Merchant was officially revealed. Then her ptb was extremely lackluster as reports came that she was another killer who was overly geared towards gen defense and at the time basically extremely weak in every other area. This hasn't changed great deal either so people generally just have not been playing her outside the people who really really like her.
Usually when a new killer is released the killer queue is overly full and you'd see a rather large survivor bonus to entice people play survivor more to speed up matchmaking, but for Merchant's chapter it was the exact opposite as killer queue had a full 100% bonus basically the entire time during first couple of weeks because no one really want to play her and killers weren't playing very much in general. Like she got a lot of play during her tome, but that was because it was necessary for to play her. This is fact that folks complained about heavily here.
Also keep in mind that people have grown an extremely bad habit of giving up the moment they see the killer is Skull Merchant. Survivors don't want to play against her even if you're not doing gen defense because her reputation is so bad. I've literally had players just go stand under hooks and afk so they can go next. So you have situation where her dominant playstyle wears people down into timing out games or giving up, on top of people proactively giving up in a bid to spike killrate(that's not conspiracy theory, people actually made threads on telling folks to do that), on top of the usual "I'll eat the dc penalty" players invalidating games.
DBD's also very content creator driven space where people will very dogmatically follow what their CCs of choice are doing to the point of taking their word as heaven's gospel. The consensus of most content creators was there isn't a lot there to enjoy with Skull Merchant and generally much more to dislike. From her lore to her gameplay to her visual design, those of us who like her are in a distinctly small minority. It's not fun playing her because in my experience I get one or two normal games and then its dc here, give up there, or a team was already dead set to just speed run the game meaning any semblance of a normal length game was never in the cards.
There aren't enough people playing her to drive the number down and there aren't enough survivors interest in playing actual games against to really drive the number down like you normally expect.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460092#Comment_3460092
Eh, this logic doesn't work.
There are killers with worse pickrate on Nightlight.gg, and all of them have worse killrate. Twins are pretty close though, while being played 3 times less.
How does that logic not work?
Twins are played much less, but they are also older than and harder to play than her. When you account for time it tracks just fine logically.
Twins is over 2 years old in terms of being in the game and Skull Merchant was added to the game in March of this year. Skull Merchant is played by three times more over a period of 3 months against a killer who's almost 3 years old.
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@PotatoPotahto said:
According to Nightlight.gg Skull Merchant has one of the highest killrates (if not the highest). So yes, she is underrated.
Her killrate being high can be misleading considering she's still relatively new and since very few people liked her chapter she's probably not being played by a great deal of people.
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459698#Comment_3459698
This is false
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D0Q0K7L38MXT/screenshot-20230621-042148-chrome.jpg
The moment they are trackable you get the haste effect.
That's actually something I have to admit I was wrong about. When I originally read the changes when they were first mentioned it seemed to me that the haste was tied directly to being tracked via clawtrap rather than via all sources of drone related tracking. So that is how I approached playing her in addition to generally using her drones for stealth rather than defense so I am very used to survivors pathing around the edges of my drones rather than spending any time in them and rarely bothering to disarm them.
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
And I'm talking about them censoring the words face camping or teabagging things like that in-game
The filter's extremely heavy handed to be sure, but then again people are a tad too comfortable saying the most vile of things in endgame chat. It exists as the consequence of players not being able to be trusted.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
How is it that Skull Merchant, a killer with who it isn't uncommon to always have atleast one person on your radar and thus always having a 3% or more speedboost is considert a weak killer who's only option is to guard 3 gens cause her chase power is so abysmall while a 3% haste bonus for survivors turns them into uncatchable monsters?
That seems like a very odd contradiction. Is MfT overrated? Or is Skull Merchant underrated? What is the source of these mixed messages we are sending to the devs?
Skull Merchant only gets that haste if a survivor has a clawtrap, not just because they are tracked. Survivors are rarely in the a situation outside of totem and gen defense playstyles where survivors actually are forced to interact with her drones in any meaningful way. That means she's actually quite gated on her buff it isn't by any means omnipresent and it's timed. It goes away when the clawtrap runs out of power and can be forcibly stopped if a survivor vaults a pallet. Made For This is a free 3% for the killer just attempting to play the game with you normally and stacks with other haste perks. Skull Merchant actually isn't really allowed to stack haste like that. She gets whatever effect is higher and that's about it. She'd need to have all four survivors with clawtraps and her movement speed addon to be really fast, but that's highly unlikely to ever happen. Made For This is guaranteed to happen because if it didn't happen then that means you were much better in chase than the killer or hiding in which case you didn't need it to begin with.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458777#Comment_3458777
Nowhere to Hide, Hubris, Superior Anatomy, etc etc. killers often—more than survivors by a wide berth—come out of new chapters with good perks, even after PTB adjustments. It’s disingenuous to say that killers have received poor or lackluster perks in the last several chapters. Survivors have, yes. But not killers. And that’s pretty much always been the case. The last good perk survivors received (prior to MFT) was probably the overtuned CoH. There really hasn’t been anything super good since (again, MFT notwithstanding).
Knight shipped with Nowhere to Hide, Hubris, and Hex Face The Darkness
Hubris isn't all that good considering it's built around getting stunned. The exposed status only lasts at maximum 20 seconds which is an amount of time survivors are pretty decent at extending a chase by.
Hex Face the darkness is a vaguely useful meme perk at best.
Nowhere To Hide is a tracking perk so it's strength isn't dependent upon itself, but on the killer a player is using it on as having information means nothing if you can't capitalize on it.
Skull Merchant shipped with Game Afoot, Leverage, and Thwack.
Thwack's another tracking perk with a double proc condition. It's bad.
Leverage has the bones of a good anti-heal perk but between the large amount of token scaling and the 30 second time gate it ends up being not worth using over any other anti-heal perk in the game.
Game Afoot could be good, but it's hampered by the fact it is a damage action obsession combo perk. Meaning it's consistency and usefulness is curtailed sharply. It's bad.
Singularity shipped with Machine Learning, Genetic Limits, and Forced Hesitation
Machine Learning has the bones of a good perk, but the flesh of an insanely bad perk. You need to kick two gens and then lose one of then to get a strong yet temporary haste effect. It's hard to play with and lacks consistency making it very unreliable.
Genetic Limits is alright, exhausting freshly healed survivors is decent. It's basically the best all round perk of Singularity, not great, but not terrible.
Forced Hesitation is fine if a tiny bit limited it's not exactly at risk of making the game super lopsided it's quite a safe short range perk. It would actually benefit from being a TR perk.
Several chapters with Worthless to Lackluster perks. 9 perks and about 3 of them are just okay. Survivors have consistently much better less niche and less gated perks, that's just a fact. I'm not even saying it is a favoritism or entitlement thing either. When survivor perks are very strong it is extremely noticeable and people go out of their way to push that strength on the PTB as far as possible.
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@Zeidoktor said:
Honest question: What does "old self" mean in this context? Because far as I know the only significant change to Clown was the addition of the Afterpiece Antidote, with no change to the Afterpiece Tonic that I can recall. What's achieved by "reverting Clown to his old self" that isn't by just not using the Antidoe?
Getting back exhaustion addon, getting back reload speed increases, getting movement speed increases while reloading without needing a green addon as Smelly Inner Soles and VHS Porn used to have swapped rarities, but now the tape is literally useless, getting back old Cigar Box.
Generally everything associated with Invigoration just isn't worth using.
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@Halloulle said:
Or why is it camp-and-tunnel-o'clock all day?
There literally wasn't a single match where the killer* wasn't compelled to sweat so much they could fill an entire swimming pool.
*idk about how survs are today, haven't played killer yet.
And here I was just thinking about playing some more again after matches yesterday and the day before had been more fun (and I by no means escaped enough to raise my MMR - escape rate was at maybe... 20%?). I mean, the Rift is nowhere near closing, there's no event going on - sth else going on? Or were the past two days just a fluke? Would be kinda sad :/
Short answer: If you've been away from the game for while, welcome back! The game is hyper competitive now on both sides. If you've been playing the whole time then congrats you may have just slid into a higher MMR bracket or sadly you've encountered the regional time slot where the jerks of your server play.
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@Xernoton said:
Why though? Clown was so much worse before his rework and anything you could do back then you can still do now. They didn't remove anything.
His addons aren't great but he does have some fairly useful ones.
The QoL stuff like not having a slowdown when tossing bottles is fine, but changing and replacing addons into invigoration modifiers is not fine. It's not always about whether something is objectively better or worse, but whether or not it feels fun to play and worth relearning. Some of us played Clown just fine the way he was and the time investment into him was worth it the first time. Clown may be objectively better now, but he isn't so much better that it makes the time investment to relearn him worth it. Clown was extremely simple and his old addons were much more impactful. Whereas invigoration isn't anywhere near as impactful and introduced a layer of unearned pseudo-complexity and is more likely to hurt you than help you.
Sometimes it really is about killers being comfy and consistent. You can make up the different in kit weakness with player skill, but nothing helps with game feel when the things that gave good game feel are totally removed. I see as a point where the devs have an idea they are super attached to and game feel for established clown players took a bit of backseat. It wasn't like that level of rework was needed as he wasn't Freddy level where he literally was bad and not really capable of playing the game normally. He just wasn't particularly good so nothing has really changed. He still lacks overall map presence and pressure which was the problem to begin with and invigoration has done very little to solve that issue so what was gained by sacrificing comfy consistency?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456561#Comment_3456561
Yes. Survivors are getting good perks very rarely and when they get, we are seeing a lot people are complaining about it.
I hope the developers don't listen to these pointless complaints. But i know they will because fun can't exists in DbD.
When survivors get good perks they are often really good. Borderline unbalanced good in ways that are easily noticed during PTB by both sides. Killers have went through 3 straight chapters with worthless to lackluster perks that probably aren't slated to receive any changes for quite a while if at all.
The people who are really getting y'all perks preemptively nerfed is dedicated testers and squads who basically only try to push the extreme limits of what can be done with survivor perks lately. Killers are more focused on pushing their powers than perks and considering how bad the perks on that side has been along with underwhelming killer powers there isn't much that needed to be nerfed on that side. No real need to trim out power when you didn't put enough power in to start with.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/75I7XPW9R2GA/image.png
Except Blight ofcourse.
Who can win games with using only 2 meh-tier perks? Only Blight.
He would finish this game with 3K but he greeded at end game. So this ended with 2 escape. But he would 4K easily if he had any of gen perks.
Why this killer is allowing to do this? Why Blight is never getting any nerfs, only love?
Nurse and Blight can do it with little conditions
Huntress and Wesker can do it with moderate conditional limitations
If map rng is good and survivors don't go hog wild with EMPs Singularity can do it, but then you're also talking about a player that has around the same mechanic skill as a decent Nurse and Blight player.
As someone posted above Legion can do it since they have mobility and decent tracking by default their only hindered by map rng and survivor skill.
Theoretically every killer has the potential to do it, but some are better than others.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458598#Comment_3458598
I would remove Trapper from that list. He cannot reasonably trap 4 gens. Hag, Demo and Larry can.
Out of those four, Hag's traps can be removed easily and I do not think she gets a notification for it. It also does not debuff the Survivors to remove it. Demo's Portals are annoying to deal with, but they ultimately do not allow him to win the time war against Survivors, it's close, but not quite because you have ample opportunity to run away if he TP's. Larry gets cucked by EMP's right now, so he's out of it entirely.
Dull Merchant's Drones give her a swath of benefits for holding a 3-gen or a 4-gen. She gets faster, stealthier, built in Dissolution which allows her to play almost any pallet and she gets tracking. Couple this with the fact that Drones CANNOT be disabled immediately, provide Exposed (making working on gens inside of them unviable) AND provide adequate time for gen regression perks like Overcharge + CoB to work and you have a Killer built to hold gens in a way that no other Killer can.
Hell, she even has add-ons to make skill checks horrifically difficult. Have you tried to hit the Overcharge skill-check with those add-ons?
I did say varying degrees for the killers I listed. The only thing gated Singularity is EMP and his own skill floor. Trapper can do it, but not well, he's very much reliant on a lot of RNG. Demo does have travel time to consider on TPing, but he can also just generally patrol the area at average speed and use portals for tracking which would put him in the same ball park as Skull Merchant in terms of what she's actually doing with the added benefit of having Shred. It's not exactly the same but it is probably the most comparable.
I'm not denying she's extremely effective at holding a gens just that when you don't limit the scope of the questions presented to "who can do x with drones" and look at just "who can do x" she isn't that different from other killers.
As for skill check addons Ada Valente 1 and Shotgun Speakers are strong, but only when combined with complimenting gen perks. Like the issue isn't a Skull Merchant issue as much as it's an OverBrine setup issue. When it comes to the tracking aspect I'm guessing they wanted the high level of tracking to facilitate chasing survivors, but they design a power that doesn't really compliment chasing more than defending. Her speed increases are minimal and dependent on clawtraps which at the cost of a pallet can be disabled pretty quick. Her drones can't be disabled immediately, but in the same turn it also doesn't provide instant exposure either. You can only be exposed if you're locked on which takes time from my experience it is very rare to get the exposed even if you do hold a 3 gen. Then again my MMR is extremely skewed because I perform overly well with Legion so I get players who don't really let a 3 gen happen unless I actively play for it minute one.
She's not even the only killer with addons that affect skill checks and the effect she presents are also effects produced by perks
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@Alec_Morgenstern said:
For those defending SM, please direct me to the other killers that get the following from basekit of their power:
- Can defend 4 gens simultaneously
- Can lose their terror radius within the drone radius
- Can cause exposed by not disabling drones
- Can cause exposed by mis-clicking on the drone input
- Can track survivors with a claw trap
- Can cause a pallet to break immediately when vaulted by a survivor with a claw trap
I think that covers everything that's just basekit (no addons) I feel like there is some sort of speed boost as well based on trackable survivors?
Survivors are also punished for both disabling and not disabling drones.
Multiple gens camped requires survivors to try and have multiple drones hacked at the same time to prevent quick re-deployment, which if it's a bad 3 gen, then SM can easily prevent this from happening.
Under what circumstances is this sort of gameplay fun and/or balanced in comparison to other killers?
It's got nothing to do with "survivors wanting M1 only killers with boring powers", or survivors unable to prevent 3 gens. It's simply a fact that there is too much benefit to her power for 0 effort.
It requires 0 effort to deploy a drone at 4 gens and then simply rotate between all 4 and slowly wear down the survivors.
Is there actually any thought put into killer gameplay when new killers are designed?
In that it's considered how they will work across all combinations of current perks, maps and the overall gameplay?
Or is the push to ensure a new killer is sent out on-time the only thing that is really driving half-baked killer concepts into the player base and making us flesh out how they should work for BHVR?
Last I checked, we don't get paid to explain how their game works to them, we're actually paying them to give us poorly thought through killers, survivors and perks and then we wonder why we're left with the bare basics of a game.
Is it really that hard a concept to simply take the time to fix up current and outstanding issues, plan out in-depth how killers should work, how various combinations of perks will work amongst different killers and maps etc?
Because if it is, maybe BHVR is getting in over their heads and they currently have too much content to manage and therefore unsure what to do?
If you couch it in terms of drones then no, no one else does these things. But let's break them out of a drone box into their more general actions
Hag, Trapper, Demo and Singularity can all to varying degrees defend 4 gens simultaneously
Again snapping out of drone focus, any killer can lose their terror radius as there is enough perk support to make that generally accessible. On her own without addons or perks her stealth isn't even good and is actively defeated by the fact that to get and maintain it she has to stay in an Active drone's field. So you know exactly where she and if she intends to maintain that stealth where she is going, but it falls off really fast once she steps out of a field without the adaptive lighting addon.
Exposed is something that is a feature of several killers powers by default or through addons and there is enough perk support for basically any Killer to punish a survivor whether they took an action or didn't take an action.
Clawtraps are unique to Skull Merchant so the closest equivalent would killer instinct which is far less conditional and harder to deal with.
Clawtrap pallet breaks also break the clawtrap along with it so it isn't as there is no benefit for survivors. You can get a similar effect on any killer if you run Dissolution.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457245#Comment_3457245
Not only are you confusing an extreme minority of the community with the majority but you're literally just cherry-picking examples. Just because one survivor complained here or there doesn't mean they represent the bigger player base.
First of all, Blight is the only one who gets hate from survivors and it's not evenly spread across the whole Killer, people only hate some of the OP add-ons he has like Alch Ring or Compound 33 (and yeah I'd know because I main him.) Other than that Oni doesn't get talked about at all because he's a good Killer apart from some issues that should be fixed like pre-dropping against him, Wesker only gets complained about because he was an extremely common Killer to go against which made the game get stale, not because he's op.
Secondly, I should've specified but pre-nerf Hillbilly was a perfect Killer, and no, he still very much is a threat. I'd know because I main him and those other Killers I mentioned. There's no denying his lethality has been heavily reduced but he's still a very good Killer who just takes a dumb amount of hours to become good at. And once again you're confusing an extreme minority with the majority. Most people who play both sides don't enjoy weak Killers because even if they're weak their counterplay could still be incredibly boring or unfun, and playing as them sucks. Trapper is a killer that sucks and yet despite that you don't see people clamoring for him and yelling out from the top of their lungs that has the most fun Killer to go up against, so quit generalizing survivors into one big group. It shows your bias.
And most people from what I've seen don't explicitly hate the Killer player, they just hate what they have to do to play effectively. No one's out here saying SM players should be hung from the gallows or anything, they're complaining that the only way SM players can play effectively is by holding a 3 gen which makes the match miserable for everyone. Plus, it's not like it's just survivors complaining about these Killer designs, it's also Killers doing the same. I play Killer and I hate SM because the only real way to play her is by holding down 3 gens because otherwise, she is literally just an M1 Killer with no mobility and mediocre lethality.
No, you don't get hate for chasing or anything else you mentioned. Just because a survivor or two out of several games of yours decided to complain about you doesn't mean half the community is out to get you. People just expect the devs to at least be able to discern between what is healthy for the game and what isn't. That new survivor perk that gives you 3% haste for just being injured is extremely dumb and unhealthy, the new map sucks for most Killers, especially ranged Killers like Deathslinger who I play a lot.
Just because I'm talking about crappy Killer designs doesn't mean I'm some survivor main like you automatically assume I am. You keep saying "ya'll" as if I'm someone who has only played Survivor and hasn't touched Killer at all. I have 2.7K hours in DBD and counting and about ~65% of it has been spent on playing Killer. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. I'm speaking as a person who has a lot of time on both sides and has seen what gets people to DC/Complain. Do you actually think I haven't complained about some things on the survivor side or something? I talked about how dumb the Hillbilly nerfs were, I've talked about how most of the maps in the game screw over a lot of Killers, like Deathslinger, and I've also talked about how dumb the new haste perk is on Survivor.
Have you read the this forum? Like really spent many hours reading this forum? If you have you would have seen the absolute glut of nonsense threads complaining about people constantly seeing Wesker, complaining about Blight in both just his power function as well as his addons, you'd also see the sprinkle of Oni complaints as well. While I am aware of the fact this forum is ultimately a small portion of the player base it is where I interact the most with the dbd community outside of a tiny bit of twitter. I've spent years reading these things that get said on this forum and usually it isn't great.
And most people from what I've seen don't explicitly hate the Killer player, they just hate what they have to do to play effectively. No one's out here saying SM players should be hung from the gallows or anything, they're complaining that the only way SM players can play effectively is by holding a 3 gen which makes the match miserable for everyone.
^You don't even have to look that hard at the forum to find numerous threads where people's dislike of Skull Merchant goes from "hey this killer has fundamental problems" to "Every Dull Merchant player just wants to hold the game hostage cause their trash". Just to take that point even further to in game where people just dc, give up, and in one extreme case DDOS'd me just for daring to play Skull Merchant. Yeah her problems make her miserable for everyone killers and survivors both, but no killer's ever DDOS'd me so yeah, I am a bit bias against survivors even though I play both sides.
No, you don't get hate for chasing or anything else you mentioned. Just because a survivor or two out of several games of yours decided to complain about you doesn't mean half the community is out to get you. People just expect the devs to at least be able to discern between what is healthy for the game and what isn't. That new survivor perk that gives you 3% haste for just being injured is extremely dumb and unhealthy, the new map sucks for most Killers, especially ranged Killers like Deathslinger who I play a lot.
So I guess you're a party to all the endgame chats of I've been a part of and seen everything that has been said in general on this forum. I wouldn't even make that claim and I spend an unhealthy amount of time on here. I've had entire teams try and take the piss outta me for every little thing you can do as a killer. Is it as bad as it used to be? No, but that's mostly due to crossplay matching me with more console players these days than other pc players. I made a general statement of frustration because when you really read what people write and try to parse out the constructive bits and then go into games to apply those constructive bits rarely do I get any other feedback than hate if any all. So for me, for years and judging by again a lot of what I've read here from other killer players, far more hate than appreciation, constructive criticism, or radio silence. Let's be clear about something I made no assumptions about you specifically, none at all. Your post was just a jumping off point for me contextualize rant that has been building for a while.
I'm dead serious about the things I said, I want to understand what survivors and the devs want, but neither group makes it easy. I can not understand what anyone's expectations truly are because no matter what I've done in this game has elicited much more than radio silence or endgame chats full of some of the most vile text. I respect that your experience has been different than mine and clearly has been much better for your sanity. My experience over the years of playing this game and interacting with it on a community level has left me with a lot of confusion and frustration and no small amount of bitterness honestly. Like I know for a fact I'm not the only person who feels likes this when it comes to DBD. It feels like no matter what you do you're gonna get hassled over.
I say "y'all" because I write how I talk and when write on the forum I write as if I speaking to an audience of many people not just the person's post I'm replying to most of the time. I am used to people doing drive by comments on my posts who are generally very dogmatic survivor players who even give me hate when I'm advocating for their side. I'm not a passive voice writer, especially when I'm on a rant, so things come out pointed. It is what is take how you will.
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@Havocus said:
^
They don't think it is ok and they are looking into reworking her, but 3 genning is a systemic problem the game has had for years. It's just that Knight, Skull Merchant, and seemingly now Singularity have just highlighted how messed up gen spawning rules are. Asking them to killswitch a killer over a playstyle while a rework will definitely not be coming for months isn't an option.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456668#Comment_3456668
Literally not true at all, people just don't want Killers like Skull Merchant or Knight who have extremely irritating and boring counterplay. Killers who have nothing but anti-loop are also boring because the counterplay will always without fail be to just hold W which isn't enjoyable for anyone. People want Killers like Wesker, Hillbilly, Oni, and Blight who not only have a lot of depth to them for both sides but also have fun and interesting counterplay.
They most certainly don't want Wesker, Oni, or Blight who get complained about frequently for being played TOO MUCH.
Billy's fine cause he's not really much of a threat to anyone these days. So it is understandable for people to be confused with what survivors want because basically every type of killer gets complained about unless they literally are too weak or kit hindered to be a threat. Like no one complains about Sadako unless she does condemned cause outside of that one playstyle she's dog water for a number of reasons.
Killers want to know what survivors actually and what devs actually expect. Like we're working with the same stuff as y'all and while bad actors will purposely do aggravating things no matter what, the majority of killers literally are just trying to make killers work for them and viable methods are actually quite limited.
We get hate for chasing, we get hate hit and run, we get hate for gen defense, we get hate for anti-loop, we get hate for tunneling, we get hate for camping, we get hate even when we just let y'all have the game. I can't count how many times I've been nice enough to farm when survivors clearly wanted it only to turn around get hate. So what do y'all really want and do the devs expect? Cause we don't freakin know and every release seems to just be Mixed Signals the movie the game starring Nic Cage. Can not stress enough how mentally ill trying to understand what y'all want makes me sometimes.
Killers are just as infuriating for a lot of the same reasons, but the game doesn't pit me against other killers so that's why this focused on survivors before anyone wants to have a go. That's like survivors asking for SWF nerfs y'all on the same side and not saddled with playing against them so while the pseudo-solidarity is appreciated it don't make sense.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456399#Comment_3456399
if you used yellow reload add-on clown and pinky finger before rework, clown is worse now then he was before the rework. so yes, they nerfed clown. I wish they made yellow bottles usable vs good players and just not just very very bad survivor players.
I didn't use pinky finger.
Solvent Jug used to give survivors Exhausted for 30 seconds now it gives Invigoration for +1 second.
The removed Ether 10vol
They completely changed garish makeup into an invigoration addon. This is repeating trend with his current addons that invigoration basically crippled every build I enjoyed using on clown as they either changed or removed the addons. I put a lot of time into learning Clown and his addons so this change has never been to my benefit. I'm not relearning an entire killer who already wasn't good, but was fun for a new form that is less fun for me. Why would ever want to give survivors a speed boost? Why would I want to play with speed boost that's on a delay at that? I wouldn't and I don't cause now I don't have a lot of the addons that I liked and that worked for me. I've been alienated entirely from this killer. He's functionally worse and no 30 min Otz video or 800 page Clown guide is gonna fix that.