Red_Beard
Red_Beard
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I'm not sure we can correctly conclude that killer players are "jumping ship". My rotation allows me to play DBD at different times through out the day. Killer queues are definitely faster at night than survivor queues. But it is the opposite in the morning. I'm playing right now and my survivor wait times are less than a minute while my killer wait times are more than 3.
Also, before cross-platform queues were implemented, I remember the only platform that consistently claimed fast queue times for killer was PS4. PC and Xbox didn't really start getting fast killer queues until after cross-platform. I think PS4 had such a large survivor base because that is where all the Ochido fans went when he "chose" to go to PS4. And Steam charts seem to show the player base isn't any less than a couple years ago so I am guessing the other platforms are holding too.
Basically though, anything I or anyone else says about the number of killer players from 2 years ago compared to today is entirely speculative. The only people that could tell us for sure is BHVR.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086685#Comment_2086685
the fact it took all the way to egc for them to be on first hook shows they were sweating after gen rush
Or it shows that they were better than you, had better map rng or you just weren't trying at all. Not every loss to survivors is because the game is unbalanced or survivors are sweating, aka trying to win, like you do I'm sure. Maybe you aren't as good with the killer you were using against them as other killers and need to practice and learn more. Or perhaps you have reached your skill ceiling with that killer.
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Why is it that the survivors escaping means they were sweating. If you would have killed the three of them and won the match, being a win is more than two, would you be a sweating killer? If you deranked and were paired with people you consistently 4k'd on, would you be a sweating killer?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059687#Comment_2059687
Wait wait wait - so what you're saying is, if I as a killer outplay a survivor, and they should go down, they have dead hard, so they're just better? Because they have dead hard? You're saying I should accept it as a loss because they pressed a button?
If a survivor SHOULDN'T make it to a pallet or a vault, but they dead hard for distance (which has no counter even if you know it's coming), which can extend a chase for X amount of time depending on where they get distance toward, I should just "accept" that loss because they had dead hard and were just better than me for pressing a button?
When's the last time you saw a survivor accept a loss to NOED?
In what world is it "fair" to outplay a person just to have them press a button, and activate an ability that was literally handed to them for failure, aka being hit.
Nope, not what I said at all. I've never said pushing a button is outskilling the other player. I'm saying even with it extending the chase in those times it does, it does not have as big of an impact to winning and losing as you say it does. I'm saying killers are already as a whole above a 50% win rate. I'm saying not every single aspect of the game, every single perk needs to have a counter.
You act as though every survivor that makes a post about NOED is speaking for every survivor. Which I'm fairly confident is false. You are continually perpetuating an "us vs them" mentality with false claims.
I think fair is when the players base as a whole is at 2 wins, 2 escapes.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059661#Comment_2059661
You act as if rank means anything.
I'm a rank 1 equal split player with nearly 6000 hours. When used for distance, it's a problem.
Nope, you inferred that incorrectly. If you read the post I made I actually talk about how much variance the skill gap is in rank 1 alone and that if the rank system actually reflected skill, I would not be a rank 1 killer.
You stated the only people saying dead hard isn't a problem are the ones who can't win a chase without it. I proved you wrong by stating that I am a killer player that plays in red ranks and showed you how I can have big win rate with only 1600 hours in the game. With you having many more hours in the game as me, I'm guessing you too have a very good win rate and a good amount of those survivors you won against, probably used dead hard as well. If that last statement I made is true, what kill % do you need before you can be happy? Survivors are allowed to have strong perks.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Since i'm sure some people are wondering about my opinion on this is, let me Copy-Paste what i told Gooby
some say Dead Hard is trash and leaves you exhausted in the ground, others say it can pretty much win Survivors the game if they stack it and use it for distance, and others still say it’s completely fine since baiting it is comedically easy, I’m personally of the opinion that being able to greatly extend a loop or not get punished for getting read by the killer by simply pressing a single button is way too strong, the reason I think it’s controversial is because, as per usual with this game, it’s a “us versus them” mentality between killers and survivors, since DS has finally been hit the only real second chances they have are Dead Hard and Unbreakable in certain situations
honestly, if they simply remove the i-frames from it so you can’t just dash away from a close range hit then I think the perk will be fine, since the only way you stop people from using it for distance is to change the perk in it’s entirety and give it a new effect
If I am interpreting what you are trying to say correctly, you are saying those that say the perk is fine are survivor players and those that think it is not fine are killer players. If so, that is an assumption of yours that is adding to the "us vs them" mentality. I have seen a few of the posters state in this thread they play killer and feel it is fine. I am a rank 1 killer and feel it is fine. Myself and one other player just posted some stats from 50 games played as killer. We both saw what you saw, dead hard is one of the most brought perks. But the other person had an 89% kill rate in their 50 games playing a few different killers. I had a 79.5% kill rate only playing Wraith. We were able to win a majority of our matches even though the survivors had strong perks.
@Red_Beard said:
Hello my fellow Dead by Daylight enthusiasts. This is a follow up to my recent post giving some data from 25 Wraith games I played as a red rank killer. Those 25 games were played on a weekday. The next 25 were played on a weekend. I wanted a mix to account for the possibility of a larger pool of survivors giving me more balanced match making, presumably better on the weekend. I also wanted to have a decent amount of games played to give a good average. This post is the data combined from those 50 games. I did not do a full comparison between the weekday and weekend games, but I did add some notes in the first post, which can be found here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237236/update-numbers-from-25-wraith-red-rank-matches
An update to my hours played at the end of this experiment I now sit at 1605 hours played. I also play survivor, I believe only slightly less than killer, but I do not keep track.
I started the experiment at Rank 2, 4 pips in. I ended at Rank 1. The lowest I dropped while completing this was Rank 2, 3 pips. I played no other killer games during this experiment.
My goal through the whole thing was to play to win. This meant kill as many survivors as I could first and foremost, but also play get as many hooks as I could if I didn't think it would cost me the win. I didn't go into the games planning to aggressively camp, tunnel and slug. That said, if I felt I was getting behind, I used those tactics if I felt it was my best option to win. There were definitely a number of games I did have to tunnel. I also noted 2 games I played were I decided to hard camp a hooked and slugged survivor. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel when I got down to 2 or 3 gens with 4 survivors alive. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel at 4 gens because I could tell by how the chases were going I wasn't going to win otherwise.
I also decided not to slug for the 4k unless I could see the last survivor even though this was counter productive to the goal of killing everyone. This was because I was also somewhat curious how many people could beat me to the hatch. There were some games I could see the last survivor and still did not slug because I was confident I would be able to get them before they got to the hatch.
I never gave up trying to achieve the goal. If the gens got down and the gate was open, I still tried to kill everyone I could. I also did not dodge any of the lobbies.
I used the same perk build for all the games which was Corrupt, Pop, Whispers, and BBQ. I used the same add-ons for the first 40 games which were green Swift Hunt and Green Windstorm. I used purple Swift Hunt and purple Windstorm the final 10 games because I ran out of green ones.
I had five disconnects while playing. I didn't count the data from two of the games because the disconnects happened early on, so I played two extra games. I did count the data for three of the games because the survivors disconnected on death hook.
Now that I've bored you with a lot of background information, let's get into some numbers.
Blood Points
I earned a total of 1,409,722 in game blood points for an average of 28,194 per match. Survivors earned a total of 3,237160 in game blood points for an average per survivor, per match of 16,186. I did not record post game points for killer.
Survivor Ranks
I decided to break the teams down into three groups; all red rank, three red rank and 1 non-red rank, and mixed. And so I do not repeat a bunch of information put those into a table with kills and pips.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7I0L4Q989KD7/image.png
Kills Overall
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O7MLTUU68EMW/image.png
I had a total of 159 kills of a possible 200 for a kill rate of 3.2 or 79.5%.
Of the 41 escapes, six were by hatch. Four of the hatch escapes were from the survivor finding the hatch first. Two of the hatch escapes happened in one match from a plundered key. That is 15% of the escapes being through the hatch.
Pips
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7CBTIXUXQREK/image.png
That is a total of 45 pip points earned during the 50 matches.
More Frequently Discussed Perks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9H9I1Z7R4SFY/image.png
The dreaded DS/UB combo was brought 14 times or was in 7% of survivor builds.
I was stunned by a decisive strike 10 times or 17% of survivors that brought it got to use it.
Four of the OoOs were in one match. I was only able to secure one kill and I depipped.
Survivors activated Dead Hard too many times for me to count and I don't record my games.
Items
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/75KE4VTSVNKZ/image.png
There were four BNPs brought in the 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COIVYC5XTRQ0/image.png
There were two styptics and three syringes brought in 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FJ8PB12HF92F/image.png
I was stunned by a flashlight save six times with many more attempted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TJYE7Q2HOX3I/image.png
There was a key that could open hatch brought in 8% of the matches. None of the keys brought were used to open the hatch.
There were three pink maps and no other maps brought in all the matches.
Offerings
I only brought blood point offerings. While there were a lot of different offerings brought, the most talked about ones are map offerings. For map offerings, two were Haddonfield, two were Dead Dawg, one was Hawkins, one was Cold Wind Farm and one was Macmillen's. That is 14% of the matches had a map offering.
My Thoughts
For killers that I feel competent with using their power, this feels pretty normal for me playing in red ranks. Even with full red rank teams, I performed a little worse but still am managing to kill more than 50% of survivors.
Of course, killers I am out of practice with, or never really learned I do worse with because I'm not that good with them.
In the 50 matches, there were only four games that I felt I had no chance of winning. But that isn't because of the balance of the game or the perks the survivors brought, it was because those survivors were just way better than me. I have I'm guessing roughly 900 hours playing killer. I am at the top rank. Included in that rank are people that may have 5000 hours in just playing killer. It is the same on the survivor side. If I get matched against those survivors with so many hours that know how to play against every killer, of course I am going to get stomped, no matter what perks they have, because I am not of equal skill as them even though we are both at the top rank level. And if ranking was such that it more accurately reflected skill level of the game, I wouldn't be a red rank killer, and I can accept that.
As for the toxic experience, there was only one game that in end game chat I got a GGEZ. Yeah, throwing a little salt, but not terrible. I have had some people say some terrible things, but it is very, very rare that I see this happen. Sure there was a lot of tea bagging and flash light clicking. But I killed most of them so I win.
Overall, I find playing killer at red ranks to be mostly easy and enjoyable when I'm playing killers I'm competent with. Definitely easier, in my opinion, than playing solo survivor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6EXQ4ZUYIHWR/image.png
If you have request for additional information, let me know. I'll try to get if for you if I have the data.
I think a lot of the problem is people get frustrated when they lose and have a hard time accepting their own skill as a reason for the lose. Especially red rank killers. They might think of themselves as the best of the best because they are red rank and that can be very untrue as there is such a large variance of skill in red rank alone on both sides.
If that is not what you are trying to say, I guess I don't understand.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Everyone saying it's not a problem - those are the ones who can't loop without it. AKA, they're bad.
Rank 1 killer player here. I say it isn't a problem and I see others that play killer saying they do not feel it is a problem.
@Red_Beard said:
Hello my fellow Dead by Daylight enthusiasts. This is a follow up to my recent post giving some data from 25 Wraith games I played as a red rank killer. Those 25 games were played on a weekday. The next 25 were played on a weekend. I wanted a mix to account for the possibility of a larger pool of survivors giving me more balanced match making, presumably better on the weekend. I also wanted to have a decent amount of games played to give a good average. This post is the data combined from those 50 games. I did not do a full comparison between the weekday and weekend games, but I did add some notes in the first post, which can be found here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237236/update-numbers-from-25-wraith-red-rank-matches
An update to my hours played at the end of this experiment I now sit at 1605 hours played. I also play survivor, I believe only slightly less than killer, but I do not keep track.
I started the experiment at Rank 2, 4 pips in. I ended at Rank 1. The lowest I dropped while completing this was Rank 2, 3 pips. I played no other killer games during this experiment.
My goal through the whole thing was to play to win. This meant kill as many survivors as I could first and foremost, but also play get as many hooks as I could if I didn't think it would cost me the win. I didn't go into the games planning to aggressively camp, tunnel and slug. That said, if I felt I was getting behind, I used those tactics if I felt it was my best option to win. There were definitely a number of games I did have to tunnel. I also noted 2 games I played were I decided to hard camp a hooked and slugged survivor. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel when I got down to 2 or 3 gens with 4 survivors alive. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel at 4 gens because I could tell by how the chases were going I wasn't going to win otherwise.
I also decided not to slug for the 4k unless I could see the last survivor even though this was counter productive to the goal of killing everyone. This was because I was also somewhat curious how many people could beat me to the hatch. There were some games I could see the last survivor and still did not slug because I was confident I would be able to get them before they got to the hatch.
I never gave up trying to achieve the goal. If the gens got down and the gate was open, I still tried to kill everyone I could. I also did not dodge any of the lobbies.
I used the same perk build for all the games which was Corrupt, Pop, Whispers, and BBQ. I used the same add-ons for the first 40 games which were green Swift Hunt and Green Windstorm. I used purple Swift Hunt and purple Windstorm the final 10 games because I ran out of green ones.
I had five disconnects while playing. I didn't count the data from two of the games because the disconnects happened early on, so I played two extra games. I did count the data for three of the games because the survivors disconnected on death hook.
Now that I've bored you with a lot of background information, let's get into some numbers.
Blood Points
I earned a total of 1,409,722 in game blood points for an average of 28,194 per match. Survivors earned a total of 3,237160 in game blood points for an average per survivor, per match of 16,186. I did not record post game points for killer.
Survivor Ranks
I decided to break the teams down into three groups; all red rank, three red rank and 1 non-red rank, and mixed. And so I do not repeat a bunch of information put those into a table with kills and pips.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7I0L4Q989KD7/image.png
Kills Overall
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O7MLTUU68EMW/image.png
I had a total of 159 kills of a possible 200 for a kill rate of 3.2 or 79.5%.
Of the 41 escapes, six were by hatch. Four of the hatch escapes were from the survivor finding the hatch first. Two of the hatch escapes happened in one match from a plundered key. That is 15% of the escapes being through the hatch.
Pips
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7CBTIXUXQREK/image.png
That is a total of 45 pip points earned during the 50 matches.
More Frequently Discussed Perks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9H9I1Z7R4SFY/image.png
The dreaded DS/UB combo was brought 14 times or was in 7% of survivor builds.
I was stunned by a decisive strike 10 times or 17% of survivors that brought it got to use it.
Four of the OoOs were in one match. I was only able to secure one kill and I depipped.
Survivors activated Dead Hard too many times for me to count and I don't record my games.
Items
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/75KE4VTSVNKZ/image.png
There were four BNPs brought in the 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COIVYC5XTRQ0/image.png
There were two styptics and three syringes brought in 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FJ8PB12HF92F/image.png
I was stunned by a flashlight save six times with many more attempted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TJYE7Q2HOX3I/image.png
There was a key that could open hatch brought in 8% of the matches. None of the keys brought were used to open the hatch.
There were three pink maps and no other maps brought in all the matches.
Offerings
I only brought blood point offerings. While there were a lot of different offerings brought, the most talked about ones are map offerings. For map offerings, two were Haddonfield, two were Dead Dawg, one was Hawkins, one was Cold Wind Farm and one was Macmillen's. That is 14% of the matches had a map offering.
My Thoughts
For killers that I feel competent with using their power, this feels pretty normal for me playing in red ranks. Even with full red rank teams, I performed a little worse but still am managing to kill more than 50% of survivors.
Of course, killers I am out of practice with, or never really learned I do worse with because I'm not that good with them.
In the 50 matches, there were only four games that I felt I had no chance of winning. But that isn't because of the balance of the game or the perks the survivors brought, it was because those survivors were just way better than me. I have I'm guessing roughly 900 hours playing killer. I am at the top rank. Included in that rank are people that may have 5000 hours in just playing killer. It is the same on the survivor side. If I get matched against those survivors with so many hours that know how to play against every killer, of course I am going to get stomped, no matter what perks they have, because I am not of equal skill as them even though we are both at the top rank level. And if ranking was such that it more accurately reflected skill level of the game, I wouldn't be a red rank killer, and I can accept that.
As for the toxic experience, there was only one game that in end game chat I got a GGEZ. Yeah, throwing a little salt, but not terrible. I have had some people say some terrible things, but it is very, very rare that I see this happen. Sure there was a lot of tea bagging and flash light clicking. But I killed most of them so I win.
Overall, I find playing killer at red ranks to be mostly easy and enjoyable when I'm playing killers I'm competent with. Definitely easier, in my opinion, than playing solo survivor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6EXQ4ZUYIHWR/image.png
If you have request for additional information, let me know. I'll try to get if for you if I have the data.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2058222#Comment_2058222
My bad on you trying to call me out, your comments were misleading and other comments that go down road of starting to become toxic are similar. Sorta jumped the gun on that one.
So maybe perks shouldn't take skill to use, but I don't think that they should be able to be used so easily and get so much value out of being used for not doing much to earn it. I still think that it gets too much value for its own good, but I would need a specific example or two to show how it can be used. I for one think that the perk gets too much value and is unfair when used for distance.
A SBM system would be very interesting, probably very bad though considering how this game is favored more to survivors by quite a bit. Not exactly saying that survivor is OP, but it is pretty clear that this game isn't exactly favorable to the killer a lot of the time. If a proper SBM system was put in place, BHVR would actually need to start balancing things.
BHVR is working on a SBM and we have gone through 2 tests in live of it. It hasn't worked exactly as desired yet though. And in my opinion, it is too hard to quantify the individual skill of a player in dead by daylight, especially on the survivor side. There is too much rng in maps that can swing the game in the favor of the killer or survivors and survivors are affected by the 3 other teammates they get.
And balance, except at the very ends, will be irrelevant. If there goal is still to have an average of 2 wins, 2 losses, if they were to make a change that would weaken survivors, all that would do to me as a killer is just shift who I play against. Those that could not average 2 escapes against me after the nerf would be replaced by survivors that can average 2 escapes against me after the nerf.
But as I always do with every change should they implement it, I am going to give it time to see how it works and before passing judgement.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2058136#Comment_2058136
Any of those kill rate stats from BHVR are pretty inaccurate btw.
Also this went from healthy discussion to condescending comments real quick. I don't see how a survivor pressing a button on their keyboard makes them skillful, or when they are carried by other perks as well. Just because you yourself happened to go against survivors who didn't know how to use the perk doesn't mean that it is fine.
It would be correct to say that the stats would be different if each match was a killer vs an equally skilled survivor team. But that is not what we get in the public matches. Even as a red rank killer if we were matched against a team of all red rank survivors, there is such a large variation of skill of players that have the red rank title, we still couldn't say we were matched against an equally skilled team. But the stats they posted are accurate to what was happening in public matches at the time the pulled the numbers. I've never heard BHVR say they want balance to be every individual person gets a 2 win or 2 kill average. They want to the average of the player base as a whole to be around 2 wins to 2 kills.
If skill based match making works, we are going to be paired with survivors of equal skill presumably all the time. That means each game we are going to have to try hard to get 2 kills. If you are already averaging more than 2 kills, you probably aren't going to like going from 3 on average to 2 on average. Let's say skill based match making works and was active right now. If they just said yep, you are right, dead hard shouldn't be there and they get rid of it, all that will happen is you will just shift to a different set of players that average 2 escapes against you. And if it worked, would they get rid of rank numbers all together? What would be the point of having a skill based match making if you couldn't see where you sit on the boards compared to others.
I'm not saying pressing a button on their keyboard makes them skillful. I'm saying dead hard isn't as big of a factor in you winning or losing as you think it is. And why do perks need to take skill anyway? Perks are just supposed to give you ways to change how you play. Brutal strength doesn't take skill. But by equipping it I can kick pallets and gens faster. Does that mean we should get rid of it?
Also, disagreeing with someone is not being condescending. If you think I called you an unskillful player, I can see how you might think that. I wasn't trying to call you a bad player as I have no idea what your skill level is. I am saying if you are losing, it is not the perks the survivors are using that is causing it. It is that you are getting matched against players more skillful than you. I know you can have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks because I have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks, other players have over a 50% win rate against players using those perks, and BHVR's kill rates shows the killer player base as a whole have over 50% kill rate. So you too, can work on your killer skills and be there if you already are not.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2058075#Comment_2058075
If they are able to make it to a pallet or window like that, it can extend the chase for an incredibly long time depending on how good the survivors are. And so what if it gets out of the way for now? The survivor can get it back in 40 seconds.
The thing is, SB only gets used in a chase whenever the survivor goes out of their way to 99 it. And lithe requires a window.
It can stack on every survivor and rewards survivors for playing greedy.
It can, but it also might not. In my experience, it usually doesn't. I just posted stats from 50 red rank killer games yesterday and another person did today. I played Wraith and killed 79.5% of the survivors and dead hard was the most brought perk. In theirs, they played a few different killers but ended with an 89% kill rate and dead hard was one of the most brought perks. If I'm remembering correctly, the last stats I saw BHVR put out had most of the killers over 50% kill rate. Some of us have figured out we can still win even with all of the strong perks survivors have. If you are getting beat so much, it is probably you went against people that were just better than you. If you aren't and you just don't like the perk, I might ask, what kill % do we need to have before we as killers are satisfied?
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2057840#Comment_2057840
You can't bait out the perk when it's used for distance.
So what. If it gets them to the pallet and they throw it, I break it and now they don’t have it to use anymore. If they get to a window I just keep playing the loop and get them eventually. They get more distance with sprint burst and lithe but I eventually get them too.
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I think it's fine. Once you know they have it you just wait to swing till you bait it out or are right on them. I laugh every time when they turn and run at me, expecting me to swing and I don't, so they just slam into my chest. I see a lot that dead hard themselves into corners and trees a lot too.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2057689#Comment_2057689
if you're playing at right time you can easily get 90% winrate because matchmaking just doesn't work
I played 50 red rank games in 2 days, afternoon through night. One day a Thursday, one day a Saturday. My kill rate was 79.5% with Wraith. I can win against survivors that run these perks, why can't you? Is there survivor teams out their that beat me? Yep. Because I'm not as good as them.
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@landromat said:
Are we going to ignore fact iron will is third most used perk and almost as stupid as Dead hard and DS?
Yeah, he went up against all those survivor perks that are unbeatable and only killed 89% of the survivors! So unfair!
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@WheresTheGate said:
Here's the scenario:
It's down to 2 survivors. Only 1 generator left and you are working on it together. Killer finds you. You are the one he starts chasing.
Here are 2 thing you can do:
1) Not intentionally follow the other survivor
2) Intentionally follow the other survivor
One of those things is a good choice for both you and the other survivor, the other is a very bad choice for both of you.
If you are capable of making the distinction between which is a good choice and which is not then you probably don't need to read any further. If you can't make that distinction read on.
#1 allows the other survivor to get away. That might give them the opportunity to unhook/heal you.
#2 ensures that once the killer downs you they will just leave you laying there and down the other survivor ensuring there is no one left to help you.
If you still can't figure out which is the good choice this game is probably too advanced for you.
I get that running the same way as the other survivor is the wrong choice, but if the killer is on my butt and the only available loop for me happens to be the one you ran to, I'm probably bringing him to you. Be considerate of the person that took the aggro and don't hog the loops.
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056154#Comment_2056154
Did you even read the title of this post? Do you not see people saying killer is frustrating to play and that survivors always win? All you got out of this post is me posting a picture of a casual 4k against solos when that's clearly not the case. Just read this and don't respond please
I see those posts about killer being frustrating and survivors always winning and I have a completely different experience. I just played 50 wraith games and made a post about the numbers I'll link below. I also just saw another post from someone who did 50 games and got an 89% kill percentage, though they said they didn't enjoy it.
I think a lot of the problem is how easy it is to rank. I am a rank 1 killer with only around 900 hours playing killer. There are people that have 1000s of hours playing killer and I am at the same rank level as them. It is the same on the survivor side with people grouped in rank 1 with very differing skill levels. Those games people get that they feel like they don't have a chance I do not believe are because survivor is just so OP and their perks make it impossible. I think it is just those people played against survivors that were just way more skilled than them, even though they are both close to the same rank or exactly the same rank.
@Red_Beard said:
Hello my fellow Dead by Daylight enthusiasts. This is a follow up to my recent post giving some data from 25 Wraith games I played as a red rank killer. Those 25 games were played on a weekday. The next 25 were played on a weekend. I wanted a mix to account for the possibility of a larger pool of survivors giving me more balanced match making, presumably better on the weekend. I also wanted to have a decent amount of games played to give a good average. This post is the data combined from those 50 games. I did not do a full comparison between the weekday and weekend games, but I did add some notes in the first post, which can be found here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237236/update-numbers-from-25-wraith-red-rank-matches
An update to my hours played at the end of this experiment I now sit at 1605 hours played. I also play survivor, I believe only slightly less than killer, but I do not keep track.
I started the experiment at Rank 2, 4 pips in. I ended at Rank 1. The lowest I dropped while completing this was Rank 2, 3 pips. I played no other killer games during this experiment.
My goal through the whole thing was to play to win. This meant kill as many survivors as I could first and foremost, but also play get as many hooks as I could if I didn't think it would cost me the win. I didn't go into the games planning to aggressively camp, tunnel and slug. That said, if I felt I was getting behind, I used those tactics if I felt it was my best option to win. There were definitely a number of games I did have to tunnel. I also noted 2 games I played were I decided to hard camp a hooked and slugged survivor. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel when I got down to 2 or 3 gens with 4 survivors alive. Sometimes I decided to hard tunnel at 4 gens because I could tell by how the chases were going I wasn't going to win otherwise.
I also decided not to slug for the 4k unless I could see the last survivor even though this was counter productive to the goal of killing everyone. This was because I was also somewhat curious how many people could beat me to the hatch. There were some games I could see the last survivor and still did not slug because I was confident I would be able to get them before they got to the hatch.
I never gave up trying to achieve the goal. If the gens got down and the gate was open, I still tried to kill everyone I could. I also did not dodge any of the lobbies.
I used the same perk build for all the games which was Corrupt, Pop, Whispers, and BBQ. I used the same add-ons for the first 40 games which were green Swift Hunt and Green Windstorm. I used purple Swift Hunt and purple Windstorm the final 10 games because I ran out of green ones.
I had five disconnects while playing. I didn't count the data from two of the games because the disconnects happened early on, so I played two extra games. I did count the data for three of the games because the survivors disconnected on death hook.
Now that I've bored you with a lot of background information, let's get into some numbers.
Blood Points
I earned a total of 1,409,722 in game blood points for an average of 28,194 per match. Survivors earned a total of 3,237160 in game blood points for an average per survivor, per match of 16,186. I did not record post game points for killer.
Survivor Ranks
I decided to break the teams down into three groups; all red rank, three red rank and 1 non-red rank, and mixed. And so I do not repeat a bunch of information put those into a table with kills and pips.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7I0L4Q989KD7/image.png
Kills Overall
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O7MLTUU68EMW/image.png
I had a total of 159 kills of a possible 200 for a kill rate of 3.2 or 79.5%.
Of the 41 escapes, six were by hatch. Four of the hatch escapes were from the survivor finding the hatch first. Two of the hatch escapes happened in one match from a plundered key. That is 15% of the escapes being through the hatch.
Pips
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7CBTIXUXQREK/image.png
That is a total of 45 pip points earned during the 50 matches.
More Frequently Discussed Perks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9H9I1Z7R4SFY/image.png
The dreaded DS/UB combo was brought 14 times or was in 7% of survivor builds.
I was stunned by a decisive strike 10 times or 17% of survivors that brought it got to use it.
Four of the OoOs were in one match. I was only able to secure one kill and I depipped.
Survivors activated Dead Hard too many times for me to count and I don't record my games.
Items
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/75KE4VTSVNKZ/image.png
There were four BNPs brought in the 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COIVYC5XTRQ0/image.png
There were two styptics and three syringes brought in 50 matches.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FJ8PB12HF92F/image.png
I was stunned by a flashlight save six times with many more attempted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TJYE7Q2HOX3I/image.png
There was a key that could open hatch brought in 8% of the matches. None of the keys brought were used to open the hatch.
There were three pink maps and no other maps brought in all the matches.
Offerings
I only brought blood point offerings. While there were a lot of different offerings brought, the most talked about ones are map offerings. For map offerings, two were Haddonfield, two were Dead Dawg, one was Hawkins, one was Cold Wind Farm and one was Macmillen's. That is 14% of the matches had a map offering.
My Thoughts
For killers that I feel competent with using their power, this feels pretty normal for me playing in red ranks. Even with full red rank teams, I performed a little worse but still am managing to kill more than 50% of survivors.
Of course, killers I am out of practice with, or never really learned I do worse with because I'm not that good with them.
In the 50 matches, there were only four games that I felt I had no chance of winning. But that isn't because of the balance of the game or the perks the survivors brought, it was because those survivors were just way better than me. I have I'm guessing roughly 900 hours playing killer. I am at the top rank. Included in that rank are people that may have 5000 hours in just playing killer. It is the same on the survivor side. If I get matched against those survivors with so many hours that know how to play against every killer, of course I am going to get stomped, no matter what perks they have, because I am not of equal skill as them even though we are both at the top rank level. And if ranking was such that it more accurately reflected skill level of the game, I wouldn't be a red rank killer, and I can accept that.
As for the toxic experience, there was only one game that in end game chat I got a GGEZ. Yeah, throwing a little salt, but not terrible. I have had some people say some terrible things, but it is very, very rare that I see this happen. Sure there was a lot of tea bagging and flash light clicking. But I killed most of them so I win.
Overall, I find playing killer at red ranks to be mostly easy and enjoyable when I'm playing killers I'm competent with. Definitely easier, in my opinion, than playing solo survivor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6EXQ4ZUYIHWR/image.png
If you have request for additional information, let me know. I'll try to get if for you if I have the data.
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@Farshad7913 said:
I started saving endgame screen shots this month and played 50 killer matches and here are the results
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1P1WB3JFQ43M/1-jpg.jpg
i forgot to save around 2 or 3 matches but i assure you they wouldn't change the result that much at least not against me because i 4k'd in them so i'd say these are pretty accurate.
i also did not manipulate the stats in my favor, these are all the matches i played beit my lose or win.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XGRP2VJEYKFM/perks-jpg.jpg
the two most game changing perks in my opinion, dead hard is really annoying to deal with cuz it always extends the chase for atleast 40 seconds and DS as you can see was almost always in the game, even if one of the 4 had it you had to assume everyone has it. i seriously can't wait for the nerf, the amount of times i have been ds'd after hooking someone else or being forced to eat it is uncountable.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9J4QDRPZB2Y1/perks-2-jpg.jpg
i didn't really have a focused build on one thing (like only for gen regression or etc) so my perk usage isn't anything special.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MBA2VA4HCMND/rankj-jpg.jpg
the matchmaking wasn't that bad in my experience as you can see here, the people matched against me were all close to my rank so i have nothing against the matchmaking to say. there were times were i could see some clueless survivors running around but again it is because of the flawed ranking system not because of the matchmaking.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CBJDOVKMBCWX/kk-jpg.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LLC9YNYERE6B/kkk-jpg.jpg
the killers shown here are my most used killers after starting gathering stats, 100 percent kill rate with trapper is a nice thing to see imo. with clown i don't remember if i did good or not but i seriously didn't like his rework other than him i started enjoying Twins more than i thought i would but i wish they're playstyle would allow more.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9CSU6OTWG5PB/es-jpg.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8ME3F5XFB203/eses-jpg.jpg
and here are the outcome and escapes per trial, i did a pretty good job so far not gonna lie.
and these were my 50 killer matches now i'll write some other detail that might be interesting or good to know:
i started saving these stats after finding a website to upload my matches which happened in the middle of this month, my escape rate would be lower if i had found this website sooner because i was on a 29 winstreak with hag (lost it to a 4 man deathsquad with 3 flashlights:(( )
as stated above i had a big winstreak with hag and therefor i truly believe after nurse hag is the strongest killer in the game (thank god you don't see a lot of hags in the game). she is like trapper and demo drugged up on blights GFuel.
My least favorite map to play on was haddonfield but surprisingly i never lost on it.
my favorite item for survivors to bring is flashlight (unless i'm hag of course) cus they're always urbaning around me waiting for that juicy FL save and are not on gens.
my kill rate might be high but let me tell you, i sacrificed my sanity to get it. don't think for one second it was easy. I came to the realization that it's not a loss that i'm scared of, it's the things that survivors say to me that scares me (sad).
i got toxic endgame messages after almost every match and not only do they not bother me they make me feel better but there was one instance that one guy was being racist to me and tbh it did hurt me but what can i do, i reported at least.
i never played nice or by the survivor's rule book for killers but that doesn't mean i tunneled or face camped but i still got ate their 57 sec DS's and got called camper and tunneler.
here are some toxic endgame text as a bonus <3
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T1B37QSNN4EU/tt1-jpg.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8APVWV6B66PS/tt2-jpg.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PTAC8SQWOMK3/tt3-jpg.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OTYG6XJAIOCR/tt4-jpg.jpg
I also just put some stats together from 50 Wraith games I played. Did you happen to keep track of how many times a survivor used DS on you? In my 50 games, DS was only brought 59 times so only in 29.5% of survivor builds and only used on me 10 times. So only 17% of the survivors that brought it actually used it. I get that they can be annoying, but with an 89% kill percentage, I would say they didn't your affect your performance all that much.
I ended with a 79.5% kill percentage, so not as good as yours. I did not aggressively tunnel unless I was really behind or chases were not going well and knew I would need to kill someone fast to have a chance. I also only camped 2 games where I was behind and had a person hooked and another slugged by the hook in both games.
I also felt like for a good portion of my matches, I had to put in effort to win. But in my opinion, that is a good thing. I find playing killer in red ranks to be fairly easy and enjoyable.
Of the 50 games, there were four that I felt I didn't really have a chance, but that is just because those survivors were way more skilled than me.
The worst I got in end game chat was GGEZ and it only happened in one match. I see you played a lot of twins and you also said you play a lot of hag. Those killers have a very campy play style. I'm not saying a killer camping and tunneling is an valid excuse for people to say mean and racist things, but they probably had just lost and on top of it did not have fun because even though I know there are times I have to use those tactics to win if my goal is to win, I also know it is not fun to play against. It is unfortunate that they let their emotions control their behavior and said what they said and for sure should be reported.
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How do you know they were a 4 man with comms?
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@kergun said:
Hello, I'm a rank 4 killer and I don't deserve my rank i know. I should be around 6-10 but thats not the topic.
I want to try new killer but I don't want to play with red ranks just because i'm red too. I can't play other killers without 4 escapes, So.. Don't you guys think we need a new playground to get better at the game?
If the skill based match making BHVR is developing, you will be matched with survivors based on your skill with each individual killer. So they are trying to implement something like that.
I might ask, does it matter if they all escape if you are just learning how to use the killer? You still learn in games you lose. Plus you will derank and potentially get better matches to get some wins.
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@Shenshen said:
I absolutely love your stat posts, it just gives a nice objective view of how games overall are and I thank you for putting so much effort into it <3
May I ask if you have plans to do something like this again?
Thanks for the feedback. I do not have anything planned. Never say never though.
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@itsPina said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2055155#Comment_2055155
it actually doesn't multiply like that so there is no real use to saving them for events
It was because that was an easy way to coordinate with other solo players so you would be in matches where there were a lot of party sharing point multipliers.
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I feel that frustration. I have 1600 hours and don’t have all perks on all killers and only 1 survivor with all perks. I too would like to see more events or a change to perks such as they are only one tier.
When I first started, I used to save my BP offerings like streamers and cakes for blood point events because that’s what everyone recommended. Use them then and triple or quadruple your points. Problem I had though was I couldn’t always or maybe didn’t want to play during the events. Now I try to never join a match without a BP offering. It has made the grind a little faster.
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@Boss said:
Have any Survivors told you that they can see you because of your fire-y cosmetic?
Some Survivors told me that in the aftergame chat, just want to make sure.
Nope, I have not had anyone tell me that. I’ll have to ask if I remember.
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@Dragonshensi said:
Just in recent weeks I’ve noticed that solo q is getting worse team-wise. I have died on first hook multiple times, no one wants to heal, or even do gens for that matter. It’s just hiding till the last person can get hatch. Maybe I’m just having a bad streak of matches but my survivor teammates lately have been less than helpful. And no, they aren’t potatoes. Funny enough, the “potato” teammates I’ve gotten have been more helpful than the purple and red rank teammates I’ve had. They either just hid or focus on doing gens. If someone gets hooked well that’s it for them. Has anyone else started to encounter this kind of player behavior more lately?
When I play survivor and a team mate gets hooked. I don't immediately leave the gen to go get the save. Usually, when I do, I find the other two did as well and so no one is working on gens. It also takes 60 seconds to get to stage 2 so if I only have 30 seconds left on the gen, I may stay and finish that first.
Kindred is a great perk to run. I can see if the others are going for the save, just hiding or not leaving a gen and it can help me make the decision to leave the gen I'm on to come get the hooked survivor.
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@Patrick_kkn said:
Hey Guys,
I'm a Killer rank 12 player, and I've been stuck at this rank for about 2 days now because whenever I play the game, in 2 out of 3 games, I always have to play against red ranks or purple ranks. Sure, I can learn and see how the high rank swfs play. If the swfs are rank 10-14, I can agree, but purple or red rank is too much.Is there any reasons why I'm being matched up against higher rank swfs?
Yes. Match making tries to group you against survivors that are within 6 ranks of you. However, if one side is experiencing long wait times, the rank gap will widen to try and find them a game sooner. This means you will be grouped against survivors that are a higher rank than you sometimes. This also means you can be grouped against survivors with lower rank than you as well.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051362#Comment_2051362
I would actually say that those statistics are pretty spot on. I've played between 60 to 70 games and I'm seeing the exact same numbers and it's not just against wraith, it's every killer. There have been 3 other forums posts by different posters and they are seeing the same numbers and they're ranging between 30 to 50 games. Between all of us, there's probably 250 games and they're all showing the same stats. That isn't a coincidence.
I don't consider myself a great killer player. I don't really play nurse, spirit, ph, blight, billy, huntress or oni unless I have a daily so when I play them, I definitely lose more because they take a little more practice to be competent with. I still feel like I kill over 50% though.
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It's a legit tactic bro. I mean, there are 7 gens and only 1 of me. You are so gen biased it's not even funny. 😂
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@onemind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237236/numbers-from-25-wraith-red-rank-matches
I may of missed this but what addons do you run?
Green swift hunt and green windstorm.
Also, to combine the posts, the 1600 hours are split between survivor and killer, maybe just a little bit more on the killer side. The only survivor achievement I do not have is the hidden all 4 escape through the hatch. Oh and Twins chapter stuff because I haven't bought it. When I check PC player profiles, I find many that are more hours than me.
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@FreddysMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237190/killers-win-too-much
honestly it depends how many hours you have put into the game, skill, perks, if you play both survivor and killer. I have been playing with red ranks lately and have not "won" if you call it that. I managed to hook and kill three reds but one got away, the same as all red ranks leaving. they are good at surviving even stronger in a team of friends.
as for playing against a red rank killer, i have not came across those often.
Is this a troll post? I can't tell. You killed 3 survivors in the match but you didn't win?
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051175#Comment_2051175
While I disagree that killer is in a good spot, I do agree that killer is less frustrating than solo survivor. That's why I became a killer main now except for when friends are on for swf. As killer at least I have a chance to win, and don't have to sweat my butt off to carry a team.
But I don't think it's a balance issue I think it's a matchamaking/ranking issue. Hopefully MMR fixes it.
There are always going to be balance issues. But compared to how they were in the past, I feel killers are in a much better spot than they used to be.
I actually think MMR is going to make you feel more stress because most of the time you are going to get matched against people you will have to try hard to get a 2k with.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052126#Comment_2052126
I didn't mean it to be offensive don't get me wrong. As you go higher and higher in ranks you will start to realize that you need to be very efficient to win games and in certain instances you might just get steamrolled and feel helpless. You used to keep winning and it creates that mindset that you are good at the game and then you go against survivors like this and to add to that, toxic chat and behaviour.
Yeah, I get that. Some people just don't like the pressure. I actually enjoy it. My favorite matches are against the bully squads that are doing everything they can to keep their friend from getting hooked. Added bonus if they are swarming me, they aren't doing gens!
If I didn't feel a little urgency when playing killer, it means I steamrolled the other side though. Not much fun for them and it really wasn't fun for me either.
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@Kellie said:
This is obviously fake. Killers in red ranks have NO chance of winning against survivors!
90% of all stats are made up on the spot.
.....
.....
......
I just made that up. 😋
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@pennythewise said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051610#Comment_2051610
Tbh i just don’t like swfs who just bring the most strong add ons just to tend to make the game worse and boring and toxic
but what i’m afraid of is time in some matches ( because normally a match can end in 7 or 5 minutes !) and most importantly gen rush . I literally cannot do anything about it unless i bring strong perks which i dont want to lol and the other thing im afraid of is basically survivors bringing huge maps offering fir their advantage.......
once i was playing killer and not even half 2 min or even 2 min passes and already 3 or 4 gens done....
Yeah, there are some very good survivor players that feel impossible to beat, especially when you are just starting out. And there are some maps that definitely lean in their favor, especially if they have the right perks for it. But if you have the mindset that you are going to lose matches, (because you will, we all do) and go in just expecting to learn, I think it can be a better experience for you. With 900 hours of survivor play you have a much bigger start on people who just bought the game and try killer. You know the ways you like to run loops against killers, so when playing killer, run those the opposite way so the survivor isn't taking the best path.
Early game pressure is important. When you spawn into a map, think about the places you spawned as survivor and those are good places to start early. There are 7 gens and 4 survivors at start, realize you can't be at pressuring all of them so try to pick the few that are close together and easier for you to get to quickly. Once you start winning chases faster, you can loosen up your control zone more.
As for toxic behavior, we can't really stop tea bagging. Only thing you can do there is try to change your mind that it's not toxic. If it's end game chat, there are ways to avoid it.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051610#Comment_2051610
When you start playing killer more often, you'll slowly start realizing.
I do play killer.
@Red_Beard said:
Just a little about my experience, I purchased DBD in December of 2017. I have 1587 hours played on PC. I do not know my exact breakdown of killer/survivor played but I am guessing it leans a little more on the killer side, but not by a whole lot. I like to play most of the killers, but I am not great at a lot of them.
I started at Rank 2, 1 pip away from Rank 1. I played 26 games but I had a DC in one of the games so I did not include the data from that game in the numbers.
During this little experiment, my goal was to kill all survivors, but also try to get as many hooks as possible. I did not intend to aggressively camp, tunnel or slug but I also used those tactics when I was behind and felt that was my best option to achieve my goals. I also did not slug for the 4k unless I had vision of the last survivor, though that only happened a few times.
I only used blood point offerings and my add-ons for every game were Green Swift Hunt and Green Windstorm. My build was always Corrupt, Pop, Whispers, and BBQ.
So let's see some numbers.
I earned 702,220 in-game blood points for an average of 28,089 points per match. Survivors earned a total of 1,603,817 in-game blood points for an average of 16,038 points per survivor, per match. I didn't record my post game blood points.
Survivor Ranks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KGWBC2TEBXYA/ranks-png.png
For my region (I'm in the Midwest), the later at night it seemed the survivors I faced were more mixed. The largest rank disparity I went against was a rank 16. They had a full build and didn't play like someone new though so I think they were either on a new account or just hadn't played in a while. Other than that, the next biggest disparity was rank 12. A few of the teams it felt very easy, but for the most part, I felt I needed to put in effort to achieve my goals.
Kills are as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JD0OJ5Q79TAX/kills-png.png
I killed 80 survivors for a kill rate of 3.2 or 80%. Survivors escaped 20 times for an escape rate of .8 or 20%. There was 1 hatch escape without a key 1 time or 4% of the matches had a survivor escape through the hatch. There were 0 key escapes.
Pips are as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GP3V9JO8FBCP/pips-png.png
That is a total of 24 pip points in the 25 matches.
Some of the more talked about perks were brought as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I4GJ74BNQ552/perk-numbers-png.png
The dreaded DS/UB combo was brought 6 times for a survivor build rate of 6%. They were all in separate matches or 24% of my matches had a DS/UB build in them. I ate a DS 4 times. Survivors activated Dead Hard more times than I could keep track of and I don't record my games. I actually think I dislike Lithe more than the other exhaustion perks just because when they use it there are obstacles I have to get around to continue chase giving them more distance. That is not me saying to nerf Lithe.
Items were brought as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LUYT4WK3G1VG/toolboxes-png.png
There was 1 BNP brought.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RRVUKZBH8WTB/medkits-png.png
There was 1 Styptic and 1 Syringe brought.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TB2T107YD27X/flashlights-png.png
I ate 5 flashlight saves with many more attempted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QYKG2D21M9PC/keys-png.png
That's 16% of my matches had a key.
Most of the offerings were blood points offerings at 60 total, 24 of which were mine. There were 4 map offerings played or 16% of my matches had a map offering. There were 2 Dead Dawg, 1 MacMillen's and 1 Lampkin Lane. The other offerings were insignificant in my opinion so I won't bother posting them.
There was 1 GGEZ comment in end game or 4% of my end game chats had a "toxic" survivor comment. Most end games there was no comment.
That's all the information I can reliably post as fact from my 25 games that I find relevant. The matches were played yesterday, a weekday. If real life permits, I may try this again on the weekend to see if it feels much different.
For fun:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GK3AXH7YTXZH/loss-game-png.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PS26327X31KK/win-game-png.png
I have every killer achievement except for Twins achievement. I haven't bought Twins.
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@pennythewise said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051175#Comment_2051175
Rn i have like 900 hours , mostly of it was playing survivor lol
So fairly new to killer. If you don’t mind sharing, what are you most afraid will happen when you play killer? Or to phrase differently, is there something you don’t want to happen when you play killer more than everything else?
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@PeteBloodyOnion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051504#Comment_2051504
Well, I'll be honest that my story holds very true because it's been like this for the past couple of days (actually since they did the matchmaking beta test on the 18 or 19th of this month).
And the reason I can make these claims without any doubt is to just check my number of posts on this forum and when I registered.
Now you will see that this is post #4.
Now why I'm saying this? because the main reason I came tonight was basically to address that topic or asked if it was natural.
Tonight I played only 6 games as the killer out of the 6 games I played only 4 because I dodged 2 complete SWF PC lobby so I could see the friend list and saw the 4 ppl on the same teams. the 4 other games (3 with Wraith and 1 with Pyramid) were against rank1 to 6 (2 games with only red ranks).
Yesterday I played only 2 games late at night and 2 games with ranks 1 to 4
Now like I said it's different during the day since I do get slightly better matchmaking that will see usually a 2 or 3 SWF (with a least 1 red rank) team with a random green lvl or a complete broken rank 20 surv team (it happened this afternoon) that I will let go.
Now my complete rant isn't about balance or make killer better but just that I can understand how a rank 1 survivor might feel against a good killer rank1 but to understand that it's even more frustrating when as a killer you are often facing players way out of your league.
And please don't come saying Git Gud cause I don't aim to be the best in the game nor want to watch perfect killer build on Youtube
I just want a fair fight against ppl of my skills.
I don't blame you for wanting to feel like you are in a match against people of similar skill that makes the match feel fair and fun. We all do. You did not say in your original post that the undesirable match making just started happening in the last couple weeks, you said you face rank 1 4 swf groups 99% of the time, which I think you just admitted, was an exaggeration. You also asked someone if they listen to any feedback from rank 1 killers and how much trouble you had playing Wraith in one match. I am a rank 1 killer player that just collected data on 25 rank 1 wraith games to give you some feedback.
I completely get the frustration. I didn't start playing this game right away so when I did start, I went against (and still do) survivors that were just more skilled than me. Improving didn't just happen, I had to work at it. The losses taught me things that work and things that don't work. Sometimes, I would come up with a great strategy that worked against, not so great players, but when I tried them against good players, it didn't so I needed to change.
I'm sure the reason you are experiencing undesirable match making is because there aren't enough killers playing at the time you were experiencing that, forcing the gap to widen on what they are willing to pair people against so that one side isn't waiting 10+ minutes to find a game. I might ask, to ensure you get matched against similarly ranked players, how long are you willing to wait? 10 minutes? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? It seems like you don't have much time to play. If you only got 1 match a night because it was trying to find you the perfect group of survivors to go against, would you continue to play?
I hope the skill based match making works great and everyone gets enjoyable matches. Personally, I think the same thing will happen as has happened in the past. Lobbies take to long to start, people complain so they widen the skill range you can go against, matches feel unfair, people complain so the lessen the skill range you can go against....repeat....repeat....repeat.
Also, I'm positive, if you are willing to put in some effort to learn how to counter the things survivors do that give you a hard time, play add ons and perks that work to your strengths, you can eventually beat a lot of these teams.
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@PeteBloodyOnion said:
"A coordinated SWF is the only possible way to somewhat slowdown killrushers"
Have you considered the point of view of none red rank killers?
I'm a rank 13 killer do you want to know who I face 99.99999999999999999999999% of the time?
rank 1 to 4 SWF teams will all the best perks (DS, BT, Iron will,etc)
Now here's my game goes as a Wraith with the yellow bone add on (distant bell) and 6 sec no terror radius
Will arrive near a Gen with usual survivors long gone so, gen pops because the guy with Spine chill already mentioned I'm coming. Then I will surprise a survivor so I will get looped to death or body block by the master looper forcing me to chase him. will stop because he's bringing me to the god loop. Will down a survivor (usually the rank 4), Sabotaged hook and flashlight are waiting for me so I might manage to make the hook so after that already 2 gens left, rinse and repeat till all is gone, Might down one when all gens are down tks to No ed but hey totem usually gets clean in 20 sec and will end the game with 4 surv teabag me and exit
Now, this is basically 95% of my games at night rarely do I get a random team or a rank 13 survivor team so yeah ether I waste 20 hours to get a rank 50, Freddy or you play 2 games then you quit remembering why you quit the night before.
I will add that I now play during the day instead of the night (eastern time) and I face less godlike teams that make the game more enjoyable (and queue time for survivor is shorter too).
Interestingly enough I just compiled some data on 25 red ranks games as Wraith. Here is a link to the post I created.
@Red_Beard said:
Just a little about my experience, I purchased DBD in December of 2017. I have 1587 hours played on PC. I do not know my exact breakdown of killer/survivor played but I am guessing it leans a little more on the killer side, but not by a whole lot. I like to play most of the killers, but I am not great at a lot of them.
I started at Rank 2, 1 pip away from Rank 1. I played 26 games but I had a DC in one of the games so I did not include the data from that game in the numbers.
During this little experiment, my goal was to kill all survivors, but also try to get as many hooks as possible. I did not intend to aggressively camp, tunnel or slug but I also used those tactics when I was behind and felt that was my best option to achieve my goals. I also did not slug for the 4k unless I had vision of the last survivor, though that only happened a few times.
I only used blood point offerings and my add-ons for every game were Green Swift Hunt and Green Windstorm. My build was always Corrupt, Pop, Whispers, and BBQ.
So let's see some numbers.
I earned 702,220 in-game blood points for an average of 28,089 points per match. Survivors earned a total of 1,603,817 in-game blood points for an average of 16,038 points per survivor, per match. I didn't record my post game blood points.
Survivor Ranks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KGWBC2TEBXYA/ranks-png.png
For my region (I'm in the Midwest), the later at night it seemed the survivors I faced were more mixed. The largest rank disparity I went against was a rank 16. They had a full build and didn't play like someone new though so I think they were either on a new account or just hadn't played in a while. Other than that, the next biggest disparity was rank 12. A few of the teams it felt very easy, but for the most part, I felt I needed to put in effort to achieve my goals.
Kills are as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JD0OJ5Q79TAX/kills-png.png
I killed 80 survivors for a kill rate of 3.2 or 80%. Survivors escaped 20 times for an escape rate of .8 or 20%. There was 1 hatch escape without a key 1 time or 4% of the matches had a survivor escape through the hatch. There were 0 key escapes.
Pips are as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GP3V9JO8FBCP/pips-png.png
That is a total of 24 pip points in the 25 matches.
Some of the more talked about perks were brought as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I4GJ74BNQ552/perk-numbers-png.png
The dreaded DS/UB combo was brought 6 times for a survivor build rate of 6%. They were all in separate matches or 24% of my matches had a DS/UB build in them. I ate a DS 4 times. Survivors activated Dead Hard more times than I could keep track of and I don't record my games. I actually think I dislike Lithe more than the other exhaustion perks just because when they use it there are obstacles I have to get around to continue chase giving them more distance. That is not me saying to nerf Lithe.
Items were brought as follows.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LUYT4WK3G1VG/toolboxes-png.png
There was 1 BNP brought.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RRVUKZBH8WTB/medkits-png.png
There was 1 Styptic and 1 Syringe brought.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TB2T107YD27X/flashlights-png.png
I ate 5 flashlight saves with many more attempted.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QYKG2D21M9PC/keys-png.png
That's 16% of my matches had a key.
Most of the offerings were blood points offerings at 60 total, 24 of which were mine. There were 4 map offerings played or 16% of my matches had a map offering. There were 2 Dead Dawg, 1 MacMillen's and 1 Lampkin Lane. The other offerings were insignificant in my opinion so I won't bother posting them.
There was 1 GGEZ comment in end game or 4% of my end game chats had a "toxic" survivor comment. Most end games there was no comment.
That's all the information I can reliably post as fact from my 25 games that I find relevant. The matches were played yesterday, a weekday. If real life permits, I may try this again on the weekend to see if it feels much different.
For fun:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GK3AXH7YTXZH/loss-game-png.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PS26327X31KK/win-game-png.png
At rank 1 I do not go against full rank 1, SWF squads with all the best perks in the majority of my games. I'm guessing you do not at rank 13 either. You might say 25 games isn't enough data collected to have a normal distribution and you would most likely be correct. But my experience as a rank 1 killer has been that I win the majority of my games.
Sure there are some games where the survivors destroy me. "Can't win em all" I say. Lots are survivors are just way better than me. I can accept that. Bone clapper and The Ghost can be good addons, but you have to know how to use Wraith to use those well. All-Seeing is where it's at. You can pair it with a lot of things. And it's a purple only! I also like Swift Hunt and Windstorm.
I'm not trying to make light of your experiences, but I do think we remember the losses more than we do the wins, especially when we get destroyed because a team greatly out skills us. This tends to lead to some exaggeration of what the average experience is.
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@A1xe said:
Hi guys, first sry for my bad english. My question here is why the mm is very bad. I only play at least 3 matchs per day but this is really frustraing because i get against ppl in rank +8 (i am new, i have only 40hs). Pls the only thing i want is a good mm :(
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FIKHPGLQB7MJ/unknown.png
Match making tries to pair you up against people within 6 ranks of you, but if one side is experiencing long queue times, it will widen the requirement to find them a game faster. If you didn't wait long in the lobby for a match, then it is probably that all or some of the survivors in the match had waited a long time in queue and instead of making them wait longer, they placed you into the match with them because you were the next available killer. If you did wait a long time, it was because they didn't want you to have to wait any longer.
I get your frustration of having to go against teams presumably more skilled than you when you only play a few matches a night. My suggestion is to use them as a way to improve. Think about things they did in the match that made it hard for you to win and think of ways to try and counter that.
Personally, I would rather get into matches fast than have to wait a long time for an opponent, even if they heavily out-skill me.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051393#Comment_2051393
Well you kinda aswered your own question when it comes down to why your winning as killer so often when you have over 1600 hours(I have been playing on and off sense the nurse's release and i only have 430+ hours total) into the game.
To give you an idea that many hours that is; it rivals my nearly 10 years of TF2 game time(And no I don't idle in tf2).
Also just remember all of what I am saying is in context of me pointing this out to @Mugombo who tried to be sarcastic about these stats being the end all be all for why killers are OP.
Fair enough, maybe I'm better than average 😉. I was thinking 1600 hours was low. But that is just an assumption based on what I have seen others in the forum post.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051362#Comment_2051362
For all either you or I know none of those games could be fair skill wise which is the main issue.
A person can win 100 games in a row but it doesn't matter if all 100 games didn't have fair match making as someone like Otz winning 100 games in a row against noobs doesn't really prove anything.
Remember even the devs have SAID TO NOT USE THE STATISTICS.
They know the statistics aren't accurate due to way too many factors going on in the game like DC games,First hook suicides,Afks, unfair match making both for and against the survivors, how maps are generated as a 12+ pallet map spawn will usually have a lower KR then one with only 7 pallets,What add-ons were being used,What items were being used,SWF or not, ext, ext, ext.
I think what you are trying to say is the statistics don't tell everything about the balance of the game between survivors and killers if both sides are of equal skills. I agree. If skill-based matchmaking works, the statistics will change. I'm not optimistic about SKM because I think it is too hard to quantify skill of an individual player based on many of the factors they have to take into account.
That said if match making were to stay the way it is, based on numbers they have posted with 1000s of data points available to them, on average, killers get more than 2 kills per match. If the goal of the game is to have an average of 2 kills and 2 escapes per game for the player base, that would say killers are a little stronger than they would want them to be. The goal was never that every individual average out to 2 kills per match.
I see a lot of people talk about how hard it is at Rank 1 as killer. With only 1600 hours in the game split between survivor and killer, I do not have that experience. I've always felt my win rate was above 50%, now I have a little data to back it up. In my opinion, people are equating top 1% survivor potential to the state of the game in public matches. That is not accurate.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051339#Comment_2051339
I was mainly pointing out to Mugombo how the matchmaking can invalidate most statistics in the game as theoretically the survivor team only had a perfectly "Fair" game in about 20% of the games.
Its also why MMR was being tested to be introduced to actually try to make games fair so statistics can be accurate.
As Mugombo was being sarcastic about these results as if they actually were accurate to the game's balance.
I'm not sure why that makes statistics invalid. You can definitely say there might not be enough data points with only 25 matches to conclude a normal distribution but the numbers such as kill rates and escape rates that BHVR has put out with 1,000s of data points are valid to the current state of the game whenever they put them out, unless there was some big mistake when they pulled their numbers.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051300#Comment_2051300
If you bothered to look at the rank distribution only 5 games were fair 4 Red rank survivors VS a red rank killer with 13 being rainbow lobbies...
You equate rank to skill. I think it can be a good indicator, such as someone consistently in red ranks is better than someone consistently in green ranks, but you don't know the skill of a group of survivors until you play them. For example, I depipped in 4 matches. The first match survivor ranks were 2, 4, 4, and 1 at the end of the match, a full red rank team. The second depip game, 5, 2, 5, 3. The third 2, 4, 7, 6. And the fourth was 2, 2, 6, 8. So three of the teams that I depipped when I played against were part of the 13 "rainbow" lobbies. I quoted rainbow because that was your term, mine was mix.
Of the 5 full red rank teams, I 2 pipped twice, 1 pipped once, safety pipped once and depipped once.
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@UnentitledBunnyMan said:
Wraith without banboozo? I'm impressed
I've thought about it. There are some times I wish I had it. I play Wraith like I do Billy. Get in front of them and body block the window while I uncloak so I don't need it most of the time.
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@pennythewise said:
Idk like , every time i click the killer icon i felt a lil stressed or even more for some reason lol ( and i didnt join a match yet!)
does anyone get that feeling sometimes to the point they don’t want to play killer lol but when switched to survivor all the sudden the stress is gone !..
No, I actually feel less stress and frustration playing killer than I do solo survivor. Killer, in my opinion is in a really good state right now if you are competent with the power of your selected killer. How many hours do you have in the game?
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@Ghoste said:
Those are some fantastic numbers considering Wraith's buff is still yet to come. You must be a pretty good Killer player. If you have the time, be sure to do another 25 test runs post-buff so we can compare.
Thanks for taking the time to collect data!
Well, I am a decent killer on easy to play killers. Put nurse in my hands and I'll show you why she's the worst killer. 😁
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@hiken said:
probably the ones you lost were SWF, wich shows what we all know, for solos the game is slighty killer sided and survivor sided for SWF, so teh game is in a good spot, since nothing they want to do agaisnt SWF.
I didn't track SWF groups because I play with cross play on and some people have their profiles private so it was impossible for me to track. I can say the last photo I posted was a 3 man SWF because they all had Rat in their name. I got a 4k and max blood points. So my data doesn't show that the ones I lost were SWF groups. It does show that at least in one match I was able to overcome a 3 man, red rank SWF. The last survivor was no slouch either as they out scored the SWF players.
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@Mr_K said:
Thats all I need.
I knew the Devs were over buffing him and no one is paying attention.
Nerf Wraith before its too late!
Philip won't stop until he has all of your skulls with the spines still attached. Your end is inevitable.
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@Munqaxus said:
These are exact same kill/escape stats I'm seeing. There have also been 3 other people on the forums that are seeing the exact same thing as you and I.
Yeah, I get some hard match ups for sure, but they aren't anywhere near the majority of the time. Sound bugs, map RNG, the way scratch marks act, latency and lag issues and the weird aim dressings hits are factors in all of those. There are also strong survivor builds, but there should be in my opinion. The majority of the time it's just that I made too many mistakes or they were just way more skilled than me.
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I don't mind keys so much. It agree sometimes it can be frustrating when you work hard to set yourself up well and it's all for not because one person uses a key and 2 or 3 people escape. I just posted some numbers from a little experiment I did yesterday. I only had 1 hatch escape in 25 red rank games and it wasn't from a key. There were 3 keys brought that could have been used to open the hatch but I was able to kill them before they could use it. So from my experience, keys and especially key escapes are pretty rare.
I suggest to leave keys the same, but I would change how hatch works. As survivor I like that if my team just utterly fails there is still a way for me to possible get out. I also like the tension that hatch race brings when playing killer. Maybe it should be that only 1 survivor can escape through the hatch in a match. If someone brings a key and uses it, only they can leave and it doesn't open at the end.
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@RK67 said:
Dead hard looks very unnatural in a horror game. If it was an fps game it would be fine but in a horror game probably not. Why and how would a survivor leap like a frog while running full speed in a chase?
Why does it need to be something possible to do in real life? This is a game based on fiction.