RakimSockem
RakimSockem
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@SovererignKing said:
I assume you're talking about me. Yes, technically Looping is an exploit. I have this on a document saved for Copy/Paste to explain.
History lesson for you : Back before patch 1.4.0 Looping was nowhere near as powerful as it is today. In Patch 1.4.0 the developers re-sized the Survivors hit boxes to be smaller, in order to help Survivors not get hit out in the open so easy, and to help compensate for latency issues. This had an unintentional effect, as Survivors found out they could now hug objects much tighter than before. This, in turn, meant they could run around objects in tighter, and therefore, faster circles than Killers could. Before this, you could get MAYBE one Loop out of a Pallet. Instead of the usual 2-3 now, before having to drop it. Thus, Looping as it is known today was born.This, by all accounts, makes Looping an Exploit as it fits the definition of video game exploits.
See Link here -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit
Survivors, still reeling from the loss of true Infinites, took to this like fish to water. The developers planned to fix it at first, but quickly decided to leave it in the game and try to balance around it due to pressure from their Survivor player base. The majority player base of Survivor Mains just couldn't win without having something that was blatantly game breaking to abuse. Most Survivors then told the biggest lie in the games history : "We want to be chased all game! That's whats fun!" In order to protect this new exploit. The developers caved, and have been struggling to re-balance the game for its inclusion ever since.
Killers were simply ill-equipped to deal with Looping and Stealth. This is why Killers now have a PLETHORA of aura reading perks, add ons, powers, and abilities. The developers gave the Survivors what they wanted, to be chased all game and let them have their loops. They are simply trying to give both sides what they want. Killers the power to be able to stand up to Looping, Survivors the game play they wanted. Though truth is, neither side is very happy.
In short : Killers are getting the balance they wanted (I say getting cause they still aren't there yet). However, not the game play they want.
Survivors are got the game play they wanted, but not the balance they want (as in being OP as hell).
Throughout the History of DBD the balance of the game has been nothing but the Survivors bunny hoping from one broken thing to abuse to the next. Infinites, Looping, Instant-Blind Flashlights, Pre-nerf Brand New Parts (The first nerf wasn't enough, and the second wasn't either. Only after the third and most recent nerf is BNP balanced), and finally Gen Rushing with Looping. Killers had only one truly game breaking exploit they abused the crap out of that lasted for any decent amount of time, and that was Machine Gun Build.
Even now, survivors are STILL abusing a plethora of things that break the game's balance. Most noteworthy being SWF on voice comms. Mostly paired with three things that have yet to be addressed from the OG that are broken as well when SWF teams have them at their disposal : Large amounts of Keys for early hatch, large amounts of Instant heal med kits, and rushing the crap out of the gens. This was exacerbated by the very LONG period of time where Survivors could D/C and not lose their items. Something they abused the CRAP out of to stock pile MASSIVE amounts of these items.
Killers have been pigeon holed into playing a very strict meta of Ruin and Aura Reading perks to deal with Looping and Gen Rushing, which even then still doesn't work very well.
Many games have taken exploits found by players and lets them stay, or balanced the game around the ability to do these exploits and it made the game more fun. The DBD Devs are simply trying to do the same, however they are failing pretty hard at it. The way the game is played out with certain mechanics with the Gens and hook system, Looping is still far too powerful.
I'm sure the developers will someday get the balance right, but I digress. Don't get so hung up on the definition and get upset. Looping is technically an exploit, however it's allowed. Just because it's allowed, doesn't change that it is what it is, an exploit.
Idk if it was you specifically because half the times, I don't read names but maybe it was.
Either way: there's a couple of flat out false or ignorant statements in here.
- It's true that being chased is the most fun part of survivor. There's no lie there so idk why you're making that out to be some big lie.
- Even with looping, the bloodlust mechanic makes it so that killers will eventually catch up to the survivor anyway.
- Hitboxes are STILL broken so the survivor hitboxes apparently aren't small enough
- You said the only game breaking things the killer had was machine gun build. I guess you were cool with double blade Legion infinite mending. Or the moonwalking Legion bs. Or body blocking hooks before the hooks were changed to be omni-directional. Sounds like you got some bias there but okay
- The game is more balanced than you think and if survivors were as "OP" as you claim they were, you'd see higher survival rates and more escapes.
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I'm glad there are still rational people (survivor or killer mains) on the forums to have discussions with because I think the extremist on both sides come out the blue with absurd claims, and some of us who are survivor mains think "oh ALL killer mains think/play like this" and likewise some killer mains think "all survivor mains think/play like that".
In reality, most of us are rational middle ground people who understand these extreme/ridiculous opinions are only held by a select few.
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Also, exploits are typically things that need to be addressed/removed from a game. If you're suggesting removing looping, what do you want survivors to do exactly?
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@Raptorrotas said:
I never stated i was a dev nor did I asume or know the devs stated it an "exploit" or not. All I did was stating the fact that looping is, by definition of exploits, an exploit
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." Incase you or others didnt read my provided link, this is the first sentence of the article.
Now please tell me that looping isnt extending the chase duration by taking advantage of (synonym for "to exploit" btw) the difference in collision sizes around objects.
I am aware wikipedia isnt the most credible of sources to use but the article provided atleast includes the controversy of exploits being good or bad, the reasaon we're even discussing this.
"And while killers can still get looping survivors because theyre faster and have bloodlust, Bloodlust was given to killers because chases were taking too long, probably the reason being looping"
Im not actually too fond of continuing this discussion because it's obvious looping will not be adressed, either because its not an "exploit" or survivormain agenda
This has nothing to do with a "survivor main agenda" (if such a thing even exist).
You say looping wasn't intended by the devs. I doubt killers moonwalking to hide their stain was intended by the devs but it was something cool and useful that players found out they could do through playing the game.
I doubt 360'ing was an "intended mechanic" of the devs. It was just something players found out they could do.
I doubt slugging was an "intended mechanic" of the game but people figured out they could do it.
The idea that the devs would've had to thought of everything beforehand and intended it to be that way for something not to be an exploit is ridiculous
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/82041/so-apparently-looping-is-an-exploit-now
Survivors can be totally blamed for its existence. They lobbied the devs for it and resisted every single time it had a whiff of nerf incoming. They are not neutral bystanders who can't be blamed for using whatever the game gives them to win, they had a hand in the game being steered in that direction.
Care to back that up with some evidence or we just throwing out random claims now?
Also..... still wouldn't make it an "exploit"
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@se05239 said:
It always have been.
The very definition of an exploit is to use something to gain an unfair advantage and in this case, survivors are using their smaller collision boxes to GAIN DISTANCE on killers by pressing themselves closer to objects than a killer can.
So by your definition of using something to gain an unfair advantage, just about everything can be considered an exploit.
-Moonwalking to a pallet to hide your stain
-Half the survivor perks (being generous there because most survivor perks are trash)
-Most of the killer perks
-Getting bloodlust and becoming faster when you're already faster than the survivors to begin with
-Bringing a medkit to increase healing speed
-Toolbox to increase gen speed (only scrubs use toolboxes on gens XD)
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I literally made a post about this yesterday, but the main issue is that people don't play for FUN anymore and too many people are try harding.
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/616583#Comment_616583
The 3 gen strat isn't an exploit. Pallet looping is.
HAHAHAHA Well there it is. The funniest thing I'll probably read today.
So now it's an exploit to not run in a straight line and instead choosing to run around obstacles to avoid being killed? lol ok
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Yeah, they're just mad because they got farmed (maybe with BT) and both times you were decided enough to ignore them and chase the other person. Props to you
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I love how this whole thread derailed and turned into an argument about burden of proof. Kappa
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- There have been a million and one announcements that DC's will be more heavily monitored and punished when they update to dedicated servers.
- I played a match yesterday against a rank 10 nurse (4 days after reset so they must have been higher rank previously), I looped her for only 1 gen, pallet slammed her once and she DC'd so this isn't just about survivors DC'ing. (i was running lithe, self care, adrenaline, and we'll make it and had no items before anyone jumps in assuming I was running dead hard or MoM or some other perk killers consider "toxic")
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#JusticeForBarb
Give us Barb lol
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Are we really complaining about killers having something ELSE that gives them more bloodpoints on top of already getting the most bloodpoints in a match. On TOP of having BBQ, Distressing, Beast of Prey, and probably something else i can't even remember?
Be happy you have bloodpoint boosting add ons in the first place.
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Idk about all the other add ons but the two add ons I DID test as an experiment like a year ago was Infinite Tier 3 Myers and Tombstone Piece which takes away your tier 3. The Tombstone Piece overrides the Infinite Tier 3.
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To answer the question, I feel like BT or BL will def get nerfed next because rubbing salt in wounds is fun
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@Zagrid said:
The amount of nerfs that the devs would have to do to the survivor side to balance out the game would be such a long list that no one would ever play survivor, because you will have to put in the effort to win that a killer has to put into winning on a daily basis, and you don't play survivor to put in effort, you play it to get a relaxful DbD game. Wraith, Trapper, Leatherface, you could juke them and run them around for at least 3 min on some maps and on others you could juke them until the end game timer ran out.
Actually I play killer when I want to relax and chill and survivor when I want to get stressed and tilted.
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Post number 3,692 dedicated to crying about friends wanting to play a game together
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@will_i_am_14_85 said:
SWF is such a big problem, I was just bullied by a SWF group, I am rank 14 killer and the I had a rank 4, 2 rank 8's and a yellow against my rank 14.
Needless to say I did not have fun
SWF is not the problem. The matchmaking system is because it should've taken the average of the group (between 7-9) and found a killer in that range.
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@Cymer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/619673#Comment_619673
You are an amazing specimen of logic. One rank 2 killer fair for a rank 13 survivor is unfair?
But a rank 13 killer against rank 2 survivor with one or more friends and the power of voice and coordination is ok?
Think before you type.
Rank 2 killer against a Rank 13 survivor with at least the support from one Rank 2 survivor and the other survivors are likely around Rank 2 as well. You still have voice, that can give you a heads up to hide or run early enough and the Rank 2 SWF can either guide, protect and/or safe you. Or at least having a fun time playing with a friend.
You didn't read what they wrote carefully.
That person was arguing against the OP's point that gearing it toward the highest survivor rank runs the exact same problem because you'll have the lowest survivor on the team way outclassed. At no point were they saying it's okay for a low rank killer to go up against high rank survivors.
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@newavitar said:
If they were able to integrate it so you always had comms I'd be much happier, because they could then balance the game around the 4 person swf since there would always be 4 person swf.
That being said, this is a good idea since it would bring a whole new level to the game. You want to keep your friend alive over the randoms, because it'll help you more. So now there's almost a feeling of competition between the two different teams, and it makes gameplay slightly different.
And I honestly don't even think they would need to do too many buffs to balance the game because about half the killers can still wipe the floor with 4 man SWF teams, if they play it right. 4 man SWF teams are actually the most altruistic and will go for saves more than any other team. It's more of a weakness than a strength sometimes XD
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@SovererignKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599338#Comment_599338
Yeah, you are supposed to use your perks to your advantage. However not stack them with you friends perks, items, and offerings in a predetermined way where you had all the time in the world to take stock of 16 perks. Oh, let's not forget the 7 extra perks you get free without needed slots for them using voice comms. Small Game, Premonition, OoO, Kindred, Empathy, Bond, and Spine Chill.
Lets do the math : Everyone has their 4 perks, plus everyone has the 7 freebies thanks to voice comms, so 11 perks per player. 44 perks for the Survivors, 4 for the killer. Super fair and balanced. Totally not cheating the system to get a bunch of information perks for free.
They hypocrisy is real. That you honestly think you as good as you say you are while leaning on the SWF crutch. If not even worse, delusional.
I haven't read through the rest of the thread yet but I gotta call BS on this. (Call me nitpicky if you will)
Voice comms is NOT the same thing as Small Game because small game located totems for you. Without small game, you still have to FIND the totems first which is becoming harder with the new updates and preschool variations
It's definitely not equivalent to OoO. At best, once I've been hooked, I can say "he's head in that general direction" That's not the same as constant view of a killer and their motions outside a certain terror radius.
It's not the same as premonition or spine chill because i can't tell you that you're looking at the killer and i can't tell if the killer is looking at you, unless I'm in the same area as you and can also see them.
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As a survivor main, I disagree (unless it's double BP weekend, the screw the killer lol)
But for real though, when two people DC early in a match and there's 4 or 5 gens, I literally run up to the killer and wave at them to kill me so we can all move on. Sometimes they oblige and sometimes they'll smack a gen and tell me to work and I take the mercy XD Either way, I don't blame them.
When double BP rolls around though, I start raging a little tho XD
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Althought tbh, sometimes I have trouble with baby killers because I'm so used to killers mind gaming and playing a certain way at rank 1 and 2 where I float, that when I play with killers who don't mind game, I end up mind gaming myself by THINKING they're going to mind game me, and I play myself.
Don't ever play yourself, kids.
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Average.
Just like it isn't fair for a rank 2 survivor and a rank 15 killer to be in the same lobby, it also isn't fair to have a rank 2 killer up against a rank 15 survivor.
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A lot of this has to do with perception and perspective, but I would say it's about even, maybe slightly tilted towards the survivors due to numbers.
But this is how things happen and how they are perceived (and I'll use my personal experience from my time in this game)
When I get pallet stuns on killers, especially if they try to mind game and moonwalk then swing through the pallet, I point at them and shake my head no as a "hey, that was nice but don't do that booli". It's a joke to me, but the killer may see that as "toxic"
As a killer, I've seen people farm their teammates when my terror radius disappears for a second. I just follow the first trail of scratch marks I see and it happens to lead me to the person I already hooked, the other guy vanished in the wind. The tunnel wasn't intentional, but to that survivor I'm probably being toxic and tunneling them (and as a survivor main, I'd probably be tempted to think the same thing myself (although me and my friends would intentionally throw ourselves in front of killers to stop them from tunneling the injured person at ANY point in the game because our goal is fun, not always survival)
One time at the end of a match in a SWF group, three of us made it to the exit gate and we just happened to be listened a really hype song while one of us was streaming so we decided to "twerk" while we were waiting for the killer to show up and chase us out. The twerking had absolutely nothing to do with the killer or the match, but again perspective. All the killer knows is that we're at the gate teabagging.
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@8obot1c said:
Mirror myers
basement Bubba
Insidious camping
infinite myers
camping killers
tunneling killers
Noed users
vomitting galore
trapping and camping
making juice when they are on the ground
ghost face teabag
Piggy teabag
Mori Mori Mori Mori
Face camping
slug slug slug
the list goes on
LOL wut????
Scratched mirror Myers is always a truly terrifying and mostly fun experience (once you get over the stress of "where the hell is he waiting for me since they usually play the Lery's offering).
Basement Bubba is hilarious, even when I'm the one that's caught. Hell sometimes I'll know he's down there, open the gates and then let him kill me while I try to get the chest.
Infinite Myers is fun and actually one of the few terrfying things in this game, especially if he also have a tombstone because you're constantly thinking "WHERE IS THE NEXT LOCKER!! I NEED TO GET IN ONE BEFORE HE CATCHES ME!"
Vomitting is literally just the plagues power. I guess you mean when you're the last person and you're already down or on hook, but I rarely see that happen.
Only a few things you mentioned are ACTUALLY toxic, and that's coming from a survivor main
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@DocFabron said:
I agree, both cause each other, but don't expect killers to play dumb and run away from the hook when all 5 gens are done.
Of course not. If all 5 gens are done and gates are open/about to be opened, go ahead and camp.
I'm mostly directing this at early first hook camping with either no gens done or maybe 1 done.
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@venom12784 said:
Camping only works on dumb survivors. You see a killer camping you should be able to get away 3 gens half way if not more.
That's grossly over simplifying what happens in reality.
You don't immediately KNOW a killer is hardcore camping until you go close and see it for yourself. They may just be proxy camping, breaking gens or pallets, reloading hatchets/bottles, etc. So you have to run over there and see "will this killer chase me so someone else can go for the save."
So then you have 1 person on hook, one trying to pull the killer, and one trying to sneak around for the save. It's only when the killer refuses to chase you that you can say 100%, "this killer is camping and has no plans on leaving hook".
So no, the rest of the survivors don't have all the time in the world. They have whatever remaining time that person on hook has.
Most killers know this and use this to their advantage. Is it a strategy? Yeah, but it's a pretty scummy one.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/618756#Comment_618756
Stop altogether? No. Such a thing is not possible, so if you're hoping for that, you're gonna be disappointed. However, I can guarantee they'd start trying out more so-called "meme builds" and mess around with survivors more often as the game became less frustrating for them. Y'know, like how it used to be back when the game was first released.
Of course it wouldn't stop altogether because some people just like to watch the world burn, but yeah a decrease in camping and tunneling is what I believe MOST survivor mains would agree would make this game actually enjoyable.
So if a secondary objective would accomplish that, then I'm all for it. I just don't think it would and I think killers will just take the easier 4ks and tell survivor mains to stop complaining about it and git gud.
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@Ceiling_Entity said:
False equivalency.
Killers sometimes tunnel & camp in a game where the gens are being done in under 4 minutes, because that one hook, given the chase, loops, pallet stuns, sprint burst, lithe, balanced landing, dead hard, the two hits (at least, possibly more if they have a pink addon for their medkit), carrying the Survivor (if they are not flashlight stunned because the camera locks in a 'please stun me' animation), trying to find a non-sabo'd hook, and hooking, can eat up 1 and a half minutes to 2+ minutes.
So it's more fair to say the genrush causes camping.
If Killers did not feel they HAD to get THIS kill because time is VERY short..then they would not feel pressured to camp.
Not a false equivalency. You brought up you're situation and I'll bring up my own.
I've had plenty of games (not outliers) where killers will camp and tunnel someone with NO gens done at all. So no, I don't accept the idea that killers only camp because they feel pressured to. That may be the case for you or for some people, but it's not even close to always being the case. A lot of killers camp because they know it forces the survivors into a crappy position: Attempt a rescue and possibly end up getting slugged or hooked yourself OR attempt to rush gens which guarantees 2 kills for the killer because as soon as that first person is dead, they're probably going to catch and camp someone else.
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Or in other words, if there were a secondary objective, killers would stop tunneling and camping because they'd feel the game was more "fair" for them.
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@NoShinyPony said:
I'm sure the majority doesn't complain about survivors doing their objective (=repairing gens) but about the current situation not being changed by the devs, for example by introducing a 2nd objective for survivors.
So if DBD devs were to add a secondary objective to the game (when survival rates are already below 50%), we're to believe that killers would just go easier and provide more time for survivors to do it? If on average, less than half the survivors make it out a match as the game stands now, what would happen if survivors were forced to do something extra?
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@Pulsar said:
The disparity between SWF and Solo's is massive. The game wasn't designed with verbal communication in mind. That's on the devs, but, Killers right now, only Nurse and Spirit can deal with a good SWF. All the other Killers get turned into fodder.
False. As a killer, I have beaten SWF team with Trapper, Wraith, Huntress, and Myers (my mains in order with how much I use them)
And as a survivor on a full SWF team, I have been beaten by killers other than Spirit, Billy, and Nurse.
People need to stop toting this false claim that there's only 3 viable killers. If you apply enough pressure and outplay your opponents, almost every killer is viable.
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People really in here saying Head On is a strong perk and it's being "abused"
Nani?
I need some video evidence to back those kind of claims up. Head On is like one or two levels about Distraction or whatever the Pebble Perk is called XD It's a joke perk
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@switch said:
Its a very bad system, i don't know why they changed it like why make it harder if you don't put any rewards for rank 1, not the first and not the last time bhvr makes stupid mistakes.
The fact that you 4k and you barely safe pip, to me that is insane, i don't care how you 4k, how fast/slow/good/bad you played if you 4k'd you should pip i don't care how you played.
Same for survivor if you escape you should pip, i don't care how you escaped/played.
Absolutely disagree. I don't think a killer who slugs everyone and hooks them once and they all die deserves a pip. I don't think a survivor who got carried to the end of the game and barely helped should pip. Pips should be based on skill and none of those things requires skill.
I do agree with the fact that there should be actual rewards so that ranking up doesn't feel like a punishment. There's a reason people de-rank on purpose.
Why sit at rank 1 with long queue times and try hards on both sides when you can sit around rank 10, have much shorter queue times, and have much easier matches? Once you've already gotten the achievement, there's no positive for sitting at rank 1 at all. Higher ranks deserve higher rewards. Bring back iridescent shards after EVERY match, not just when you level up (which also means absolutely nothing and let's not even get into how there's no rewards for prestiging). Hell, even like 50 Auric cells per rank reset for reaching rank 1 would be nice.
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Kinda like Overwatch or Apex. I like that idea.
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In the past 3 matches, I got 2 brown med kits, a brown toolbox, and 2 broken keys...... guess luck ain't my thing
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/617080#Comment_617080
Why not? Overcharge is such a bad perk might as well be utilized as base but that will never happen.
I actually wouldn't have an issue with that tbh
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Inb4 bias about lobby dodging not equating to disconnecting.
But yeah. It's be nice to create a system where killers wouldn't DC so much (after complaining about how long their lobby times are).
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I can tell you now that a mod will close this because discussion of bans isn't allowed on the forums but like you said, you can't be banned for those things and it will give you a reason for the ban.
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I absolutely love playing against nurses that I can mind game and have decent chases with before I get downed.
But if there's a nurse that doesn't fall for mind games and has 3 or 4 blinks, sometimes it's really just better to kill myself on hook, get out of that match, and move on. And since DC'ing is punishable, that's the only alternative to DC'ing
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@[Deleted User] said:
Regression should not stop simply because survivor tapped a gen. I think skillcheck should be required to stop it.
So Overcharge base kit?
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@Nick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/615689#Comment_615689
Are you saying that because you mostly play survivor and don't want 'your side' to become harder? Are you trolling? Or do you actually think that.
Are you saying killers should get what basically amounts to Pop Goes the Weasel as a basekit because you want your side to be a lot easier? Are you trolling? Or do you actually think that?
See how condescending that comes off?
Yes I do think it's fine the way it is. Sure we can tap gens, but we can't run at 125% movement speed and the second we take to tap the gen can easily be used for you to catch up to a survivor
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@My_Farewell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/615689#Comment_615689
Current regress speed makes kicking the gen not worth it, unless it's close to be finished and patrol around it. And by doing that you lose pressure on other areas.
If kicking the gen took less time by default it would be ok, but that's not how it works right now.
But it's not supposed to be devastating to the gen progress. The whole of kicking a gen is to simply STOP it where it is, and then let it regress over time as it does. If that's not good enough for you, you have to use those perks.
It would be cheap if kicking the gen had a kind of built in Pop goes the weasel effect because that perk by itself is already strong.
You make the decision as the killer when to kick a gen. Maybe you hear a gen started but no one is currently on it, so you kick it, circle the area once or twice to see if you can find anyone, and then move on so you keep pressure on. In that time, it will have regressed a little which is all it SHOULD do.
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People keep mentioning the perk, but I just got irritated of hearing him talk in the lobbies and how loud he is on freaking totems.
Then again, I'm a Feng main...... she's loud af
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Not at all. If you feel it doesn't regress enough, use the two perks you mention. The regression speed is fine
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Definite the self care nerf. I hate depending on other people
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It's not just too loud for killers. You ever tired being chased while looking for the hatch?
The chase music is looking at you like Debo saying "what hatch sound?"
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/613908#Comment_613908
How are they indirectly buffing survivors?
They aren't. Just more paranoia and hysteria like how they all went crazy about a Nurse nerf when they mentioned they would be touching mainly her add ons
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It's not that playing to win is "bad" or "toxic".
Playing scummy and at the expense of everyone else is what people consider bad or toxic. By all means, play your best. Run iri hatchets. Play your infinite tier 3 myers.
But if the only way you can win is "I'm going to hook you, hit the first person who shows up, pretend to chase them and then run back to hook so that no one else comes to save you"
then 1. you're boring.
and 2. you just need to simply get better at the game, because there's no skill involved in that.