RakimSockem
RakimSockem
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So you want killers to be able to move and have no stain or terror radius??? Am I understanding that correctly?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I love how people keep asking for more objectives to slow down gens.... when it practically just buys time for bad killers who have yet to learn how to catch a survivor.
Half the posts on here about "gen rush" don't explain in detail what they might have done that resulted the gens getting done so quickly.
Did you bring Ruin?
Did you apply the right map pressure?
Were you tunneling someone till their 3rd hook?
Did you bother to check gens once in a while?
Etc. Etc.
These are the questions that need to be answered before someone claims "I got gen rushed".
Basically this.
You can't spend a long time chasing one person or camping them or tunneling them immediately off hook and then complaining that you got rushed.
If you're spending all your time on A, what else are B, C, and D supposed to be doing?
It's your job to secure that first hook quickly and start applying pressure in other places. Use whispers if you need to find people fast.
Also there are plenty of counters to gen rushing. Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, getting better at the game and applying pressure to more people, not camping and tunneling, Corrupt Intervention, and probably other things I forgot about
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A+. Wholesome post.
Like this is literally it. And actually, most survivor mains don't care about add ons, Ruin, or NOED depending on how the killer plays the match.
But like..... we're just here for a good time. I don't give a crap about dying. Kill me. But give me a chance to play the freaking game first. If I get into a good chase or two with a killer who isn't camping and tunneling anyone and our whole team dies, I give props to the killer for outplaying us. We play games to have fun.
This attitude people seem to carry that "I'm not here for your fun, I'm here to win." Go play an e-sport then. Take that somewhere else.
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Keys are rare as hell to find, even WITH Plunderer's Instinct (inb4 threads about nerfing Plunderer's #PlunderersOP)
Conditions have to be met for keys to even come into play.
To escape with a key:
All 4 survivors would have to complete all 5 gens (which arguably at that point, you were going to lose that match anyway)
1 survivor dead and the other 3 would have to have completed 4 gens and found hatch and all get there without the killer noticing
2 survivors dead, other two completed 3 gens and same conditions as above
or 3 survivors dead, and killer found hatch first and closed it.
In any case, keys are rare and don't affect your average game. I would argue Mori's are used a lot more than keys if your big complaint is that you feel robbed. Let's talk about those XD
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@Peanits Sorry to tag you but was wondering if anyone on the team has seen this and put any thought into it?
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Like other people said: From a point perspective, a perfect game is 32k same as killer. It's literally impossible without farming though.
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I just think survivors need more because they don't have enough BP farming perks and killers not only have more BP perks, but also add ons that add BP (I think Hag has one with a 300% boost to BP in a category or something crazy, Wraith has one for having a terror radius and I think it's either 100 or 200% increase) Using those on top on BP perks AND survivor pudding/BPS easily earns them upwards of 150k-200k in one match. Survivors can't get anywhere near that unless there's a double BP event and everyone runs BPS
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@Jdsgames said:
Killer is harder to pip. Any action you do as killer is reverted by survivor actions.
Kicking a Gen - No Points towards Defense Not only can they tap it but you lose gate keeper for gens being done. The time expectancy for gens is practically assuming each game has ruin/PGTW
Hitting a Survivor is nullified by healing - Therefore you should tunnel them that way their damage can't be undone.
Chaser - Don't use your power if you are half of the killers:
Trapper, Wraith, Doctor, Spirit, Plague, Billy, T-3 Myers, etc. Otherwise your chase potential gets diminished.
Devout - Yes like I can prevent suicide on hooks or disconnects.
Malicious - See Devout:
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Killer Emblems are an incentive to tunnel survivors.
I don't see what your list has to do with it being harder to pip? I don't see what your list has to do with anything tbh. Of course the survivor's action run counter to the killer's goal. That's how it's supposed to be.
I can make a list just like it.
Trying to work on gens? - Killer chases you off it, kicks it, hooks you beside it, and camps it and you.
Trying to unhook someone? - Killer camps hook and/or chases you away from the hook
You see how these things are common sense and supposed to happen? That's how your list sounds to me.
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@RoKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/611593#Comment_611593
Now that you mention it: The Survivor's Emblem System seems designed to benefit killers: It forces survivors to be found and chased and to go for hook saves with no regards of tactics.
I haven't noticed before because I ignore the survivor's emblem system too, I just like to try to escape.
I guess that even things out between killers and survivors, right?
Exactly. Glad we're on the same page. :)
(I know you were being sarcastic)
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@RoKrueger said:
What for? You don't need to care about the emblem system, it is designed to benefit survivors. For example: You don't get a good sacrifice emblem if you hook each one of them once and all die, come on!
The only validation I need to know I played well is the barrage of insults, threats and complaints I usually get from salty sore losers at the post game chat. Those are worth to me like 50 emblem shards, pips, points or whatever :-)
Ha. Hahaha
Hahahahahahaha
Lol okay. So first off, no. The emblem system is not built for survivors and pipping on survivor side is MUCH harder than on killer side. If I want to pip as a survivor, I have to do gens, I have to also be altruistic which means I need to stop doing gens. I also have to be chased by the killer AND get away if I want iridescent. And then I also have to make it out the match. There's almost ALWAYS at least one person who de-pips and one who safety pips because it's impossible for the entire team to do ALL of those things and there's usually one person carrying the weight in each category.
The killer on the other hand has all of their emblems tied into each other and if you're chasing someone and hitting them, you're also keeping them off gens and getting hooks which means you get to work on all 4 of your emblems at the same time.
If that sounds like a system built for survivors, then I don't actually wish to continue this conversation
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whispers this isn't really an issue because SWF actually BALANCES the game
*flies away*
Real talk though, I can go find clips of matches with me and my friends in a 4 man squad and only one or two of us escaping against an average killer. I can show some where we all get out and I can show some where none of us make it out. I can show clips from my stream being the rank 1 "try hard" on the team (ooh Plunderer's.... so scary) and I can show the same games from my friend's perspectives on their streams who are not as good as me and float anywhere between rank 4 and rank 15 (most being around 8 or 9). We're not a try hard swat team and I'd imagine most SWF are not. We mess around and do stupid things and we try to have fun with each other. That's literally it.
Yall can create a million and one threads about it but at the end of the day, the mods and devs already know and have stated themselves in man threads that SWF is simply a mode where friends can get together and have fun and does not immediately mean the killer will have a hard time. Hell, even with voice comms and me telling my friends what's about to happen, they aren't good enough to stop it or change anything so half the time it doesn't matter.
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THAT'S MY PURSE!
-After being hooked at least once, the next time the killer gets within 4/6/8 meters of you, you may activate this perks. Kick the survivor in the nuts and stun them for 60/80/100 seconds. If the killer is a female, the stun last 6/8/10 seconds.
"THAT'S MY PURSE. I DON'T KNOW YOU!"
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But the time it takes from being hooked to get into struggle state is less than 70 seconds. The the killer at least knows they can just camp until the person gets to struggle and then leave the hook
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@[Deleted User] said:
Sometimes killer's skill matters. But killer skill doesn't matter when survivors spawn right in line of sight of Ruin and even if you were to B-line with Ruin, it'd pop before you get there.
Killer skill doesn't matter where you get a map like Disturbed Ward, where survivors can run you around in there for 6+ minutes without any potential for mind games if they know what they're doing (so it's just a safe building most of the time), forcing you to either take the loss to get that one survivor down, or abandon chase.
...And then generators get finished in about 4 minutes.
What is a killer supposed to do in that situation?
Killer's skill matters. Survivor's skill and map RNG matters more, though. Killer is strongest when they capitalize on survivor mistakes. If they don't make any mistakes, you can't snowball. If you don't snowball, gens get done in less than 5 minutes.
I love playing Huntress. I believe she's the hardest killer in the game -- or at least certainly has the highest skill cap, even more than Nurse. Skill matters a lot with her more than any other kill (I wouldn't say Nurse has what I'd define as skill necessarily -- 80% of how you play her well is literally muscle memory, and I don't think muscle memory quite defines as 'skill', though it's still not easy).
But as a Huntress, when you get Lery's, with a dozen or so windows and pallets, and your Ruin gets found within the first 30~40 seconds of the game, and your generators are really far and spread out all over the map -- you're simply not winning that. It doesn't matter how good of a Huntress you are. You're only winning that if the survivors mess up. Bad. All of these are out of the killer player's controls.
I can play on Grim Pantry one game as Wraith, and there can be 10 pallets and no god windows, and then the next game I can get grim Pantry again and suddenly there's twice as many pallets and a ridiculously good window set up in the Pantry. Suddenly a much harder game to win as killer, despite the same map and the same killer and even if it was with the same set of survivors. I'm not saying maps can't be stacked in favor of killers too (Sheltered woods), but when it happens to Killer, it's a lot more impactful to them. Games where a killer can't get a snowball end really fast. The first 60~80 seconds for a killer are the most important. They almost define how a match will go for them.
Some maps have infinites, which are basically unmindgameable safe zones. It doesn't matter how skillful you are as a killer. An infinite is an infinite, because it's infinite. Your skill doesn't matter.
Finally, even in cases of you doing something skillful as a killer, survivors have a polethera of second chance perks and add-ons at their disposal which spit on any accomplishments you may have gotten as killer.
Caught someone out of position? Sprint Burst.
About to catch up to someone/hit them? They press a button and dead hard, denying you.
Wounded/downed someone two seconds ago? Insta heal.
Hooked someone? Deliverance.
Someone is unhooking someone so you catch them with a grab? Decisive Strike.
Correctly assumed someone had Decisive Strike? Don't matter. Unbreakable.
Spread damage and chaos across the entire team? Decisive Strike.
Found hatch first? Key.
Discord and SWF has its own set of problems, too.
This is not considering how survivor works, where you (generally) get 3 chances before you're completely put out of the game. A killer can make a single mistake once in an entire chase, and because survivor objectives go fast, that one mistake -- a small misread, can literally be the reason they lost. This mistake can literally be not tunneling someone, because you hooked everyone twice for a total of 8 hooks, but all 4 survivors still survived, so you get an Entity Displeased.
How killer emblems work are also another problem. A lot of Killers emblems actually actively punish you for being good. You use your chainsaw or traps properly as Billy/Bubba/Trapper? Enjoy your bronze chaser emblem. Survivors spawned on all seperate gens and found Ruin faster? Enjoy your bronze Gatekeeper. Survivor decided to DC? Enjoy your bronze Malicious and Silver Devout.
If survivors do bad, and one escapes by hatch, you're probably going to depip. If survivors do good and you don't get a chance to do much, you're definitely depipping.
Sorry for the long wall of text/"rant".
No apology necessary.
Because of RNG, I agree that sometimes your skill doesn't matter or matters less. And as you also stated, RNG sometimes negatively affects the survivors as well. Hell, I had a game where I spawned on top of a hill on the farm level and me and the killer could see each other (and it was Michael) so I was like, ######### my life I guess XD
As far as perks/items/add ons are concerned, I could run a counter argument to say that insta-heals are just as fair as insta-downs. And actually, more fair because the insta-heal gets used once and it's done. Insta downs (chainsaws, iri hatchets, whatever the clown bottle is called) can be used throughout the entire match.
And then I can also argue that the perks you mentioned make up for the fact that killers have powers and weapons and survivors don't. Sure a survivor can sprint burst, but can teleport to a trap after a survivor runs near it, or blink, or phase walk, or whatever their power may be. Without those perks, survivors would literally never escape.
And then we have Ebony Mori's which are free wins unless you just really don't do anything.
I played a match against clown few days ago and I looped him for 3 gens to the point where he gave up on me. We got to the end game and I dodge 4 bottles in a row, he catches me with the 5th and I go down in one hit and die on my first hook because everyone else escaped or died already. I could argue that completely takes my skill out of the equation, or I can accept the fact that he learned as he played and figured out how to catch me.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606748#Comment_606748
Stop complaining. You want to find totems faster? Small game or a map. You have the means, you simply don't want to use them.
And @Peanits thank you. I'm glad that was fixed. I take small breaks from this game as to not get tilted and i didn't see the fixes yet
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If you take the insta-heal effect off adrenaline, you might as well take the perk out the game completely because Hope gives you a speed boost for 2 whole minutes after the last gen is done. There would be no point in running adrenaline at that point
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I don't think you realize the complexity of what you're asking.
There are 5 totems on a map, 7 generators, and 4 survivors.
You're saying that ALL 5 of those totems can't spawn near a generator OR a survivor. Do you realize how little of the map is left once you take those into account especially on smaller maps? And that's also keeping in mind that the totems need to be spread out from other totems.
The totems would all end up in corners of the map basically.
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@Mifian said:
Try red ranks. The majority of killers complaining about it are that. Survivor differences between red and purple is massive.
I don't think it's that huge of a difference as me and my friends tend to float around red/purple (currently rank 2 survivor) and the way we play and our skill level isn't all that different. I'm a little better at running the killer than they are and they are better than me at hitting those stupid Hex Ruin skills checks I hate lol
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Let's all ignore the troll
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lol I needed this laugh. XD
Thank you random forum person for whining about something you'll never get because YOU don't like playing survivor.
Get over it
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/605559#Comment_605559
If someone has different experience it doesn't mean it is a lie. I don't use this combo nor did I played against that many killers that do. I don't like it and there are more killers like me.
I never said anything about a lie. I just said I found it laughable that people are calling these two perks useless, but at the same time if the Devs were to release perk statistics, I bet both of those perks would be pretty high up the list.
Like, just be honest. If you want to call Monstrous Shrine a useless perk, go for it. Enduring is a good perk on its own. Spirit Fury is a good perk on its own. Together, they're a really great combo. This may be a hard pill to swallow, but every team isn't SWF and every team isn't running comms. People in here saying "oh you only get to use it once, then jUsT dRoP paLLeTs EaRLy". That doesn't work if you don't know the killer has the perks.
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I'm just laughing at all the people here talking about the two perks being useless even though almost every killer I see runs one or the other, or both. You're not fooling anyone, nice try though XD
I just think the number of pallets broken needs to be upped by 1 for Spirit Fury. I think at tier 3 it's only 2 pallets? (correct me if I'm wrong). Breaking two pallets is nothing
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I've never had an issue with EGC itself, only the door spawns which are supposedly "random" but end up being on the same way or very close in at least 90% of my matches (excluding The Game where they are locked to be straight across the map from each other)/.
If the system they have now is what they call "random", then they need to make locked locations for doors and criteria to assure that doors are always far apart
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I saw it used for the first time ever yesterday and my friends and I were cracking up. The first time this game has made me laugh in a while
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599771#Comment_599771
Ok, but you're basically summing up how every killer feels when going against SWF on coms, but nothing changes. No one cares but the killers who have to put up with it. Why should we then be concerned about survivors when they're on a hook?
Survivors still have a counter to this, which if used consistently would discourage killers from doing it unless they were opting to throw the game for the sake of killing one survivor. A 75% win-rate just isn't good enough for them. This makes it evidently clear: survivors DO think they deserve to all escape no matter what and their invention of the 'killers think deserve 4k' meme is an obvious projection of that.
That 'killers think they deserve to 4k' is only one thing that you said, but you still said it and you know damn well that it's a friggin lie. No one who spreads that BS is a fair-minded or honest person, so claims to want to reduce toxicity are also a fraud because you're perfectly happy to spread a central plank of survivor-toxicity: that of projecting their faults onto killers constantly.
The so-called "counter" isn't a valid counter either.
When the killer hooks someone, a survivor is naturally going to attempt to go save that person which means that at best, two people are on gens and one person is going in for a save. This is of course assuming you have a 4 man squad with perfect communication and coordination which is more often NOT the case. In a game with less than that, there could be more than one person going for that save due to lack of communication.
Anyway back to the point, the first person has to get to the hook, find out the killer is still there and camping, try to distract them and pull them away for a second person to go in and get the save. So now only 1 person is on a gen. NOW, once that second person realizes that the killer isn't going to follow the first person and is committing to being boring, only then can the survivors make the decision to "just do gens". By this time, the person on hook is almsot dead, and one of the survivors who attempted to be a distraction probably took a hit and is injured. THAT'S the reality of what camping does to a game and that's why so many killers camp, because they KNOW it gives them an easy advantage.
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Just start using them.
As a survivor main, I've starting just randomly using all those brown bloodpoint boost things that i normally ignore
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This is important.
I also feel like (and maybe this is just me) button mashing isn't the best or most accessible thing for struggling. On top of possibly being difficult for some people, lag sometimes kills you even when you're clearly pressing the button.
Can't we just change struggling to holding a button down instead of mashing it over and over? Makes everyone's life easier
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/598905#Comment_598905
I'm not talking about someone directly stating or using the literal same words: I'm talking about 'killers deserve to 4k' being projected onto killers in different guises, as if it were a view that has ever been expressed by more than a handful of non-notable people over 3 years.
If we compare, then survivors haven't literally said by the same standard 'I should escape every game', but they have in fact argued it to that effect and do so almost every single day. When ever the issue of hook-camping is brought up, their response to being reminded that the counter is do the gens the let the hooked person die is: but what about the guy on the hook?
This counter has a 75% win-rate on-paper, the chance of not being the guy who dies on the hook. That isn't good enough, so what is? They literally do want every single survivor to escape every game; a non-perfect win is never a win. This is where I think the meme about 'killers think they deserve 4k' comes from: it's survivors projecting their own basic AF mindset.
Also when it comes to hook camping (which is completely unrelated but let's go there for a second), the argument isn't "everyone has to live so hook camping is toxic/bad/stupid"
The argument is, "this killer is a dick and is sucking the fun out of the game. The person on the hook doesn't get to do anything. The people not on the hook are left with the choice of gen rushing (which killers claim they hate but encourage us to do at the same time???). It's boring and lacks skill. That's it."
My friends and I don't mind dying against a killer that just simply outplays us and kills us. We say gg and move on. It's annoying when you run into a killer that puts you on a hook and won't chase anyone else that comes by.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/598872#Comment_598872
Do you have any examples of killers saying they 'deserve to 4k' or not? Not a week goes by without killers being beaten with this stick and it's an absolute lie.
You said everything in RakimSockem's post was 'not false when it came to survivor-memes' and that 'almost every statement he made is from a discussion post on this forum'. I note the shifty qualifier; 'almost'. This was though your response to me and I had specifically singled-out the zombie-trope of 'killers measure everything by 4k' and it's variations which duplicate the meaning.
To me, that whole thing read as not only perpetuating a lie, but lying about the lie.
Bruh, you got stuck on that one small fraction of a thing that I said and missed the ENTIRE point of the rest of my comment.
I ALSO said there are survivors who think "I deserve to escape every match" which is something that literally none of my friends who play survivor have said nor have I seen any survivor main in the forums say it. This runs into the same argument you're presenting which is "that's a dramatization created by the "other side" because no survivor main actually thinks that but killer mains seem to think that survivors are entitled and feel that way.
Again, the POINT is that regardless of whether these things are true or not, killer mains and survivor mains tend to only see things from their side and don't take the time to empathize with the other side.
But I'm not here to argue. I'm here to agree with the point of the post that we need less toxicity and need to work on finding more middle ground
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D R A M A T I C
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597669#Comment_597669
Survivors literally invented treating the other side as non-persons and inventing opinions that killers supposedly have and say is part of that. The fact you spout those survivor-memes about what killers supposedly say undermines any claim to fair-mindedness.
Killers responding with the same low-standards are usually critical of those standards, but they're the standards survivors set and maintain. The penny still won't drop no matter how many times it gets explained though.
Killers will stop telling the truth about survivors when survivors stop telling lies about us.
And this is literally what I mean. I make a post expressing things that have been said by both sides of the issue (and yes, the things I listed have been said if you read through the forums) and somehow my post has survivor bias and is all lies that survivor mains made up????
Case in point why we can't agree on anything here
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To be honest, all you have to do is read through the forums to see that toxicity will probably always be ingrained in this game.
On one side, you have your "I'm not responsible for your fun, my job is to kill you" people who apparently have no sympathy/empathy or sense of sportsmanship. If they're not getting 4ks, then killers aren't strong enough. Take looping out of the game (I burst out laughing when I saw that post). There should only be 2 pallets and 1 window per map (I'm exaggerating, but I bet there's someone in this forum who has said something crazy like that). SWF is broken.
On the other side, you have people who want to nerf BBQ (it's really not that hard to counter guys). If I don't escape every game, I'm upset. Pre-nerfed MoM was perfectly fine (I was indifferent to it and it didn't bother me but I understood the frustration with it), And just general lack of sympathy/empathy for GENUINE killer concerns.
So any time a survivor main brings up an issue they have, the post gets flooded by killer mains (which seems to be most of this forum?) saying "get over it. get good. you probably just suck. etc"
AND
Any time a killer main comes through with an issue, the survivor mains comes through with the same thing.
It seems that very few people here actually play both sides and attempt to see things from both perspectives, and tbh I don't think people in here even make an ATTEMPT to see something from other perspectives.
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Why are people complaining about this. I can't even count the number of times before that change that I died running full speed toward a window and getting a stupid slow vault because the angle was too sharp.
Clearly if I'm running, I want a fast vault.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597460#Comment_597460
What about this then, since a baseline MYC would be OP on mobile killers:
When further than 32 meters from the hook, your attack cool-downs are decreased by 20%. Every time you hook a survivor, this bonus increases by 2% up to a maximum of 20%.
If they were to do something like that, that would delete the purpose of Save the Best For Last (i think that's the right perk anyway)
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Honestly I think a good step would be to remove post game chat. That's where it generally happens for me.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597414#Comment_597414
Thanks for not reading.
Oh I read the entire thing, but I also made an entire comment that I didn't feel like repeating (a third time tbh) that addresses why your logic is faulty and oversimplified which I will quote here so you don't have to go looking for it.
@RakimSockem said:
Even as someone who is like 80% survivor main, I would be against the 3rd one. I don't think extra gen speed is necessary.
That being said (and here's where the killer mains ignore me), there's no ACTUAL counter to camping that ALSO results in have a gg.
People always say "well if the killer is camping, just do gens". The issue with that statement is that you have to actually FIGURE OUT that the killer is gonna play like a dick first before you say "whatever, let's just do gens and let that person die".
It's not an immediate "Oh the person is on hook, time to go do gens and ignore them." That's an ######### thing to do. So one person goes in for the save and finds out "oh the killer is still here, let's see if I can get them away." They try and a 2nd person goes in, then they discover "wow, the killer is didn't follow them so let me take a hit and try to get their attention" At THAT point, you find out this killer is really not chasing anyone and they're committed to playing scummy. By that time, person on hook is either almost or already in struggle and at best, one person is on a gen. That's the reality of how most games will be playing out because people aren't selfish jerks and want to give everyone a fair chance to play the freaking game.
So now you make a last minute decision to "gen rush", but by that time, one person is almost dead, a 2nd person probably took a hit and ran away, and you may have a gen and a half done if the person got caught really early. So the whole "jUsT Do GeNs" idea is something you decide as a team from a crappy position, not a position of power.
Now I already know some people will respond with "Well that's your fault and you need to play more selfishly"
And I hope I never have to come into contact with you in real life because you must be a real fun person and a team player XD
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597387#Comment_597387
What if Make Your Choice was baseline?
Every Nurse, Billy, and Spirit would IMMEDIATELY zip back to hook for easy one shot kills
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Started on Xbox when Freddy came out. Moved to PC after like 3 months and have been there ever since
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Not OP at all. I play as if every killer has BBQ until I can justifiably say otherwise and I just go the opposite way of where I'm moving after 4 seconds
I just wish survivors had more USEFUL perks that boosted bloodpoints. For example, I think We'll Make It and We're Gonna Live Forever should be combined into one perk. Double healing off the hook AND a bloodpoint boost for saving someone.
That's just as fair (and that's being generous) as the benefits of BBQ that gives you a crap ton of info on top of the bloodpoint boost. (Who is far away, whether someone is close to justify camping, if someone is near your totem or digging in a chest making them an easy pre-occupied target).
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I just think they need to remove extra blinks and extended blinks.
I enjoy playing against an average nurse because it feels like an accomplishment and it feels amazing to outplay such a strong killer.
Some nurses though..... they're just unfun to play against. Like.... well that match ended in 80 seconds.... was that fun for you? lol
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@ArecBalrin said:
Hook-camping has a counter. It has always had this counter. Survivors just refuse to employ it, despite it having an on-paper win-rate of 75%, which is their basic chance of not being the person who dies on the hook in each match.
Nothing in this 'experiment' suggests the survivors even attempted to focus on the gens, although the OP equipped perks to mitigate against it. Both of those perks though share the same counter-play at the end of the game: not being found or caught in between gates powering and escaping. This can be maximised by everyone staying together and going to the same exit, so no one getting caught at the other exit can possibly get caught, hooked and trigger Blood Warden. On most maps, not even the Huntress can guard both exits no matter where they spawn.
Hypothetically, trade Blood Warden for Whispers; now the killer has a much earlier warning of which gate at least one survivor is at, but they will lose the others as they go to hook without Blood Warden to stop them leaving. So swap out one of the to-the-basement perks instead for Whispers so you have Blood Warden and NOED. Whispers isn't a specifically end-game perk, but it is rather less useful the more survivors there are; it's harder to track any individual one if they split-up unless they're all going somewhere predictable, like an exit. What if they don't go for the exits though?
You're actually now split between guarding two exits and the NOED totem, with three survivors. You only need to leave any of them beyond sight for 20 seconds, with a survivor hiding near and it's over.
Even if the killer manages to win, they have played the game with two end-game perks, which is two-fewer. If they win before they activate, it can be argued that survivors played very poorly(one common killer frustration is that whatever the result, it never feels like we earned it as so much depended on survivor-fail). If the killer wins in the end-game, assisted by those perks; it's again dependent on survivors being careless.
"Not getting caught" is not a counter to getting camped. There isn't enough stealth in the world to NOT get caught the entire game.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597285#Comment_597285
If beginners are the problem, then provide incentives for killers not to camp. Besides griefers, they're the only ones who camp even when it provides no tactical advantage.
It's 70 seconds plus travel time, while a generator is 80 seconds. If they've finished even a single generator by the time you catch one of them, then this can all be done simultaneously. 4 gens split between 2 people, plus a third hunting totems. It's not just +70 seconds, like some people may erroneously claim.
Lastly, if NOED allows you to get multiple kills, then the survivors made mistakes. End of story.
I mentioned this in my other comment, but in your situation where one gen is done and one person is on hook (and assuming this is a 4 person group with perfect communication).
It's not as simple as 2 people doing gens and one searching for totems (one of which is probably in the area the killer is camping but ignoring that for a second)
One person is going to initially go in for the save to get their teammate off the hook. When that person sees the killer still there, they're going to attempt to get the killer to chase them and have a 2nd person go in. When that 2nd person goes in and they realize "hey this killer really isn't leaving", THEN they can decide to just focus on gens and totems. By that point, the person on hook is half dead or more, and one of the rescuers probably took a hit which means they need to get healed (or heal themselves which takes even longer).
You have to invest TIME into figure out that a killer is like CAMPING camping, and not just regular camping and then chasing the first person to come along.
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@Chaotic_Riddle said:
You forget that some players aren’t actually toxic when they play SWF and just want to chat with their friends as they play, right..?
Nah. People REALLY REALLY don't understand this. Like, they flat our refuse to acknowledge this in the same way certain people deny global warming and science XD
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I just don't understand where this thread is coming from. I mean.... I get it, you hate getting looped. But on the other hand, how easy of a game do you want.
The only way to get out the match is to complete gens which are stationary and in set places. The killer is naturally going to be in and around those set places. Stealth does not help you for very long, especially with killer tracking perks (hello Whispers) so the better way to play the game is to run perks that help you get away from the killer rather than hiding from them. In fact, the most annoying teammates are the ones who urban evade around the map doing next to nothing while you're looping the killer, waiting for things to get done and nothing does.
If we were talking about a game that involved getting from point A to point B, more emphasis on stealth makes sense. In DBD where the objective is to get things DONE and LIVE against someone who is faster, stronger, and has powers, running makes more sense than hiding
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Even as someone who is like 80% survivor main, I would be against the 3rd one. I don't think extra gen speed is necessary.
That being said (and here's where the killer mains ignore me), there's no ACTUAL counter to camping that ALSO results in have a gg.
People always say "well if the killer is camping, just do gens". The issue with that statement is that you have to actually FIGURE OUT that the killer is gonna play like a dick first before you say "whatever, let's just do gens and let that person die".
It's not an immediate "Oh the person is on hook, time to go do gens and ignore them." That's an ######### thing to do. So one person goes in for the save and finds out "oh the killer is still here, let's see if I can get them away." They try and a 2nd person goes in, then they discover "wow, the killer is didn't follow them so let me take a hit and try to get their attention" At THAT point, you find out this killer is really not chasing anyone and they're committed to playing scummy. By that time, person on hook is either almost or already in struggle and at best, one person is on a gen. That's the reality of how most games will be playing out because people aren't selfish jerks and want to give everyone a fair chance to play the freaking game.
So now you make a last minute decision to "gen rush", but by that time, one person is almost dead, a 2nd person probably took a hit and ran away, and you may have a gen and a half done if the person got caught really early. So the whole "jUsT Do GeNs" idea is something you decide as a team from a crappy position, not a position of power.
Now I already know some people will respond with "Well that's your fault and you need to play more selfishly"
And I hope I never have to come into contact with you in real life because you must be a real fun person and a team player XD
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the tl'dr of this thread is:
"We need to put survivors in an open field and let them run in straight lines until they die"
How do you remove the only means of survival from a survival game?
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@Loit said:
Devs listening to Killers... ha. They want you to suffer long term hearing loss from playing their game. That's the price you pay for being a mean Killer. This is why I stopped playing Killer after too long.. my ears are actually hurting.
And if you turn down the volume, then you can't hear any sort of groans of pain or breathing. Just the way the game should be.. damned if you do, damned if you don't.
@Peanits - Please tell me why you want us to be in actual real physical pain when playing the game?
Lol you think this is a KILLER problem? (or specifically a killer ONLY problem)
Try being chased and running dead past the hatch because the chase music is on a 1000%
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@Jdsgames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580439#Comment_580439
@RakimSockem I am not sure how familiar you are with the game. Unbreakable comes to mind? If you got slugged and can't do anything who's fault is it? You have a bleed out timer so simply bleed out. Punish the killer by moving somewhere. Your teammate in many cases can pick you up from a safe spot.
@Jdsgames I'd rather not waste a perk slot for a perk I may not even get to use if I don't get slugged. No thanks.
And you asked whose fault is it if I get slugged? literally the killer's fault XD
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I'm not encouraging DC'ing at all.
I literally just said it's something I do because I'd rather not lay on the ground bleeding out for 10 minutes while the killer plays hide and seek, trying to get a 4k.
Nice try though XD
I'm under no obligation to stay in a match where I literally can't do anything and am holding my teammate back
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580214#Comment_580214
Well, with random lag spikes and hitboxes you have also to fight as killer. They are actual "fair" and annoy both sites :).
Until dedicated servers are put into place, lag is HEAVILY in favor of the killer since they host the game. Nice try though XD