Would you make these changes to the killer Emblem system?
I don't know if the emblem system as killer is bugged or they shadow nerfed it and it is now stricter with the criteria to get high emblem scores. Regardless, I have a few ideas on how to make it logical and more consistent.
Killers that have powers that involve insta-downs, arena traps, and stealth abilities suffer from Chaser scores post match. This has never made sense to me, if a killer has an insta-down power and utilizes it well and ends the chase quickly, surely that should reward high Chaser since it wins them the chase fast. Same with Trappers traps, if you're chasing a survivor and you force them into a loop that you've trapped and succeed to catch them and down them from it, surely the game should recognise that and be like "good job ending that chase quickly" but instead it punishes Trapper with low chaser and forces him to double tap survivors over and over not being able to use his traps as down mechanics if he wants to get high Chaser scores. Same with Plague breaking and downing survivors, surely that should be a reward since you are ending it fast as opposed to double tapping someone whom could easily be dropped 10 seconds into a chase.
Would you make those changes?
Comments
What for? You don't need to care about the emblem system, it is designed to benefit survivors. For example: You don't get a good sacrifice emblem if you hook each one of them once and all die, come on!
The only validation I need to know I played well is the barrage of insults, threats and complaints I usually get from salty sore losers at the post game chat. Those are worth to me like 50 emblem shards, pips, points or whatever :-)
The whole emblem system is soo trash like holy hell even a 5 yr can design a better system.
The fact that if you 4k you don't pip is mind blowing, and you have to give survivors chances in order to pip, if you kill them to fast you don't pip, if they dc you don't pip... #########
Just play the game don't look at rank, rank is useless either way...
That's how I play, I use builds and play for fun. But it's sad that you have to ignore rank to have fun. You should be rewarded for playing a killer properly and strongly.
That's why I raised the question. Survivors had a bullshitingly hard time ranking once, that lasted like 1, maybe 2, weeks lol this killer emblem has been broken for months now. It needs a freshening up
Ha. Hahaha
Hahahahahahaha
Lol okay. So first off, no. The emblem system is not built for survivors and pipping on survivor side is MUCH harder than on killer side. If I want to pip as a survivor, I have to do gens, I have to also be altruistic which means I need to stop doing gens. I also have to be chased by the killer AND get away if I want iridescent. And then I also have to make it out the match. There's almost ALWAYS at least one person who de-pips and one who safety pips because it's impossible for the entire team to do ALL of those things and there's usually one person carrying the weight in each category.
The killer on the other hand has all of their emblems tied into each other and if you're chasing someone and hitting them, you're also keeping them off gens and getting hooks which means you get to work on all 4 of your emblems at the same time.
If that sounds like a system built for survivors, then I don't actually wish to continue this conversation
Now that you mention it: The Survivor's Emblem System seems designed to benefit killers: It forces survivors to be found and chased and to go for hook saves with no regards of tactics.
I haven't noticed before because I ignore the survivor's emblem system too, I just like to try to escape.
I guess that even things out between killers and survivors, right?
Exactly. Glad we're on the same page. :)
(I know you were being sarcastic)
I was not being sarcastic, I really haven't thought about the survivors' emblem system until now :-P
@RoKrueger @RakimSockem
Are you guys serious? 😂
Survivors have a very easy time ranking up. You get Lightbringer from totems, Gates and Gens; Guarenteed at least silver in Unbroken if you survive at least 4 mins in a match; at least Silver in Benevelont if anyone on the team gets more than two safe unhooks and heal - gold or iridescent if you do those things too; at least silver Evader if you get chased at least twice amd get one pallet stun.
Whereas Killer needs to make sure all 5 gens don't get activated before 6 mins has elapsed in order to get anything higher than bronze; if all escape then you either get nothing or bronze (sometimes barely silver if you manage to two hook everyone) in Devout; Gold or iridescent Malevolent & Chaser by hitting, downing and getting people off gens, rescues and heals...but don't get it confused - Chaser/Malevolent and Gatekeeper don't go hand in hand. You can get Iridescent in both Chaser and Melevolent and still get nothing/bronze Gatekeeper. Now look at that and tell me Survivor have it equally or even remotely comparibley hard ranking up
I probably did not notice that piping as survivor is easier because I kind of suck playing as one :-P
Killer is harder to pip. Any action you do as killer is reverted by survivor actions.
Kicking a Gen - No Points towards Defense Not only can they tap it but you lose gate keeper for gens being done. The time expectancy for gens is practically assuming each game has ruin/PGTW
Hitting a Survivor is nullified by healing - Therefore you should tunnel them that way their damage can't be undone.
Chaser - Don't use your power if you are half of the killers:
Trapper, Wraith, Doctor, Spirit, Plague, Billy, T-3 Myers, etc. Otherwise your chase potential gets diminished.
Devout - Yes like I can prevent suicide on hooks or disconnects.
Malicious - See Devout:
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Killer Emblems are an incentive to tunnel survivors.
@Jdsgames
Thank you, that spells it out clearer 😇
I have always tried saying disconnects should grant sacrifice points as well as brutality. (And be reflected in emblem)
And yeah, Gen breaks should grant Gatekeeper points. There are so many failures with the current Killer emblem scoring right now that it just needs changing asap
Too add to it Survivor Emblems are actually more rewarding when you screw around.
Gens: If you rush them out you are practically fighting for emblem points. Same with Altruism, and Chaser.
However, you get screwed up because as your chaser goes up most likely your unbroken goes down. So you want to get in multiple chases just not go down at all.
Altruism farm them obviously. As long as that Safe Hook Rescue notification comes up screw them you did your part LOL.
So these survivors that rush through the game vs The killers that have many incentives to tunnel. Is what really makes the emblem system garbage.
The emblem system needs to be designed so each killer scores differently. Using a power should always reward a killer not hinder them.
The fact that each side can play really well and not pip shows the failing of the system. A good survivor can run a mediocre killer all game and a good killer can destroy survivors with 5 gens yet they both can still safety pip at best in that scenario.
Emblems being used for matchmaking is a bigger issue imo as getting matched with those of less skill makes it harder for both sides. This shouldn't be the case and where it falls down. Each side should be matched with those of equal skill, playtime, knowledge of the game etc. A killer that 4ks regularly should start to be matched firstly looking for those with high escape rates and quickness of downing compared to being able to run the killer.
A lot more stats need to be taken into account when it comes to match making.
The game itself is being led down the path of making each side do more than just kill or do gens which I like but instead of it ranking you up if the devs truly want this it should be more rewarded.
Remove rank and make it a progression ladder where you earn more shards bloodpoints and maybe even one skin peice which is pay only for non licensed characters. Just something to promote the play which entices you more to play that way as rank is really not an enticement when you can gain the more bloodpoints from staying in an easier rank bracket helping the current grind.
Unhook first 2 survivors, do a gen, maybe 2, and get in about one decent chase or maybe 2. Bam. Pip
I don't see what your list has to do with it being harder to pip? I don't see what your list has to do with anything tbh. Of course the survivor's action run counter to the killer's goal. That's how it's supposed to be.
I can make a list just like it.
Trying to work on gens? - Killer chases you off it, kicks it, hooks you beside it, and camps it and you.
Trying to unhook someone? - Killer camps hook and/or chases you away from the hook
You see how these things are common sense and supposed to happen? That's how your list sounds to me.
Well, since you seem to really want an in-depth analysis I will be happy to provide:
KILLER EMBLEMS
GATE KEEPER:
Alright, so let's talk basic killer emblems starting with Gate Keeper. As my list said earlier not only is the gen kicks not rewarding at base with regression being pitifully nullified by a half a split second m1 of a survivor at any time. Not to mention the time frame for getting anything decent out of these emblems hopes for either Survivor complete stupidity or a perk like Ruin/PGTW. Kicking a gen should be worth something at base the speed a gen regresses is pitiful especially against any decent group of survivors swf or not.
Unlike doing multiple gens for survivors a killer can kick as many gens as they please and it doesn't matter they are held to the emblem by time. Which quite frankly idk if you have seen the several hundred threads complaining about the insane amount of time pressure a killer is on at base. So again this requires a perk or stupid survivors if you have any hopes at attaining this.
Fully reliant on how the survivors do gens. If the survivors screw around you get this emblem if they pound em out quick you don't. Generally speaking as I said needing Ruin/PGTW/Dying Light to have general hopes of getting Gold/Iridescent against good survivors.
Devout:
Now if you ask me this is the biggest joke out of all the killer emblems considering again the previous time constraint. What is it I believe
6 hooks for goldall survivors dead for gold and 9 hooks+ and all dead for iridescent. Which alright I will give it I would love to be 9 hooking most games and generally having an eventful killer match. However, suicides on hook and certain methods of disconnecting cuck this extremely too hard. Again no offense to the dev team or whatever I am using it broadly not punishing disconnects until dedicated servers launch is the most mindless thing I have ever heard. You just said "Hey get out of jail free" to everyone doing it. Not to mention how much 'skill' it takes to DC for a hatch. Which again cucks another hook for this emblem. Not to mention rushing to kill the survivors will also cause lower Malicious and Chaser which will black pip you.Now going back to time an average match unless you find the survivor extremely early due to the RNG/Luck you have 2 gens completed with a third likely on the way. Now at this point PGTW is useless unless you can find that gen being worked on which is usually less than or average difficulty considering there are 5 gens left on the map. Do not include "Oh run BBQ" I am purely talking realistic expectations. Perks shouldn't mean you automatically win they are suppose to be slight buffs.
This emblem really depends on how badly the survivors mess up. If they make really stupid reads and get downed quickly. Yes, you do happen to get more pressure. However, this is again survivor reliant and generally down to reaction based timing or RNG of pallets.
So this is now 2 for 2 emblems that are roughly 80% survivor reliant without perks. Not only this you are punished for survivor suicides or disconnects. Which the last time I check not only do you not have control over neither does most of the other survivors.
Malicious:
Now I like the idea, However, as I originally stated this promotes tunneling. Why? because the heal completely nullifies your malicious points. It also rewards survivors not healing. I will agree this is a two part emblem.
Why does it promote tunneling: You can't heal the injury of the hooked person from the dying state. So you have injured and dying + hook. When they get off the hook you only have to recover the injured state. Again the idea of tunneling do not let them have a chance to heal and play. Mechanic you need to pip highly rewards this behavior stop blaming killers.
Survivors not healing: Well take a look at the Gate Keeper issue. Yes, you gave me the ability to down you for the malicious and possibly devout points. However, you lose the gate keeper pressure. If they heal you lose malicious. Which Gate Keeper is already an issue to obtain reliably.
The only points kept and this is if you didn't get sabo'd out or something causing you to lose grasp is Hooks give you points for good I believe.
So this is now 3 for 3 emblems that are survivor reliant without tunneling. Which tunneling costs you gen pressure. So there is no way to properly 'Win' this situation without the survivor team making mistakes and not doing any form of objective: Healing/Gens/Totems etc.
Chaser:
Now this one I find a bit more fair. You either win chases or you don't. Although, due to poor LOS I think you lose more chases than intended and don't gain as much chaser points properly. IE: Certain areas for certain killers that bloodlust and LOS break super easy for no apparent reason even when you can be dead center starting the survivor down around something. Not to mention the sprint boost gained from a hit puts the survivor at a distance it instantly ends a chase. I personally doubt this is handled properly in points scoring giving a survivor free chaser points they did not deserve.
Now, the chaser survivor gets points for the gens and totems being worked on while they are in a chase. However, the killer doesn't really gain anything from this actually in most cases you are rapidly losing emblem points in other categories.
So for a final count there is roughly 1 emblem that is solely dependant on the killer's vs survivor's skill and not reliant on tunneling or hoping a specific survivor move. Note: I am not counting broken loop areas on the map as map reworks should fix this issue.
SURVIVOR EMBLEMS:
Light Bringer:
Now you would probably think this emblem is soo difficult to get right? Well see, there is a difference between this and Gate Keeper. Your points are dependant on all generators. You don't have to bum rush them all and get out the team can waste some time tickling other gens and canceling regression or PGTW and get this without generators actually being completed. Plus you now passively get this with Chaser since survivors doing actions benefits your own emblems slightly. I see nothing that is for a killer equivalent here. Which is far easier to do rather than the killer's version.
So due to easier ways to manipulate that are not perk dependent. I will say the Gen Emblem is easier on the survivor's side. Again this emblem is based on the survivor team's choice on how they work on gens. This perk is also not reliant on the killer at all. If a generator regresses you are not penalized for it. While completing the gen naturally diminishes the killer's emblem potential.
So this emblem is survivor specific reliant as well as the survivor team. Killer cannot interfere with this unless you are camped out. However, this doesn't mean overall balance in the generator emblem doesn't favor the survivors for ranking.
Unbroken:
Now, I find this funny comparable to the Killer's devout. If a survivor does not manage their goal of surviving you can still earn up to a silver in this category. Which is practically almost a guarantee unless the match lasted 3 minutes. However, escaping by any means guarantees gold or higher. Compare this to a killer not getting any hooks. There is no bi-product way of just existing for this emblem.
So this one is about 50/50 when it comes to terms of reliancy. If the killer camps/tunnels you out. You can probably at least scrape a bronze. However, otherwise you are guaranteed a silver for most matches if not gold for hatch or general escaping.
So again this emblem favors the survivor side by purely giving you points for existing on the map. Please compare this to gate keeper. The killer has to keep you off the generators for them to get their passive emblem. This one you can be locker hopping and still win.
Recap 2/2 Survivor emblems are survivor reliant for the most part and easier overall to obtain.
Benevolent:
Now, this one is more funky in terms of getting. However, as long as your team overall heals and performs saves you can actively swap this in and gain emblems. I really don't want to go into the nitty gritty about how bonus points are given all throughout the emblem. How "Safe Rescues" are pitiful if they manage to hit a pallet before going down they are good and you get your points. In addition to BT not counting as them getting hit and not to mention perks and other things that assist with anti-camp/tunnel not to mention DS or any form of stun that drops a survivor negatively impacts malicious as killer. Body blocking and general actions outweigh penalties of the emblem.
This one is finicky in terms of who it favors. Since a tunneling/camping killer can deny these points. However, a killer can't keep pressure 24/7 when playing fairly so they lose their emblem because of it. I find this is a slight lean in the favor of survivors when the teams play fair and not like #########. However, I also think it is a slight lean due to points on the killer side being outright nullified unless they tunnel or survivors don't heal. However, maybe some Statistician can prove me wrong on this one.
Recap 2/3 Survivor emblems are dependent on mainly survivor actions. With this emblem being dependent on how the game plays out.
Evader (Survivors Chaser):
I think you can read my Killer's Chase explanation and get a grasp that this is generally a fair emblem. However, I think survivors get rewarded more. However, again I do not do mathematical statistical study on ever game's chaser/evader equivalent so I might be wrong.
So overall I think the emblem system punishes the killer for things that in many cases if you are not playing like an ass is out of your control. Again the complaint of killer is not a power role in this game applies.
*Ps: Please do not bring Nurse into the equation. There are outliers in statistics and I will say she is one of them in the emblems*