RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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@Mr_K said:
Are there players that think it is?
101 survivor perks and 90 killer perks with three tiers each.
The grind is awful.
A quick read of this thread would show that, yes, there are.
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I mean, before MMR it could also do this dumb stuff. It's why I didn't start playing the game last year: first game was... I think Haddonfield? Against an experienced team? I'd basically no game experience or knowledge.
I think I might have gotten one hit in and then got teabagged at the exit. Decided to not play the game at that point.
If MMR is also doing that, it needs work.
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You've really got to fix this somehow.
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Server validation. On their end, they pressed the button before you hit them.
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The saddest thing about Plaything is that if you take advantage of it, people will complain.
Gee, if the person I've just hooked can't hear me coming and is doing something, why am I not going to get them?
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@OverratedFool said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685492#Comment_2685492
I believe the opposite to be true. That might be partly because I have ~200 hours of playing pig (that you probably don't have) and any new killer I try, will always be against survivors I find easy to do well against with any/no perks. I think the separate rankings for different killers is one of the few positives of the MMR because you can just jump onto any killer you've never used before and do absolutely fine. Even if that isn't the case for you, it surely soon would be the case after a few games, when your MMR decreases.
Look, I agree with you that the system is "a little steep" (as I said) for killer. I really do think you're making too much of it though. The game should not be designed so that any random noobie can just hop on and try any build they want. A lot of people enjoy grinds like this. You get it when you earn it. It encourages you to play more, which ultimately will lead to you buying more, so the developers will never make it too easy.
I'm personally in the situation now where I have every survivor and killer at 40, with Pig, PH and Kate having all perks. So I still have to dump multiple millions of BP into any killer I wish to truly experiment with. I've played ~700 hours to get here but honestly I never had any large annoyance at the system along the way. How many killers do you seriously want to play a lot of? If you want to master multiple, then the amount of BP you'll earn along the path of doing that will fund their webs just fine.
Most games I've started years after the game's been in progress at least have some sort of catch-up on the grind. DBD... does not. It's still maintaining the same proposal to new players that it has for... what, the past 5 years now? Since patch 1.3.0?
Always telling newcomers "after you have hundreds or thousands of hours in the game, now you can play with different combinations of abilities on different people" is just... weird. You have a game with 2 sides, 26 distinct character abilities on one side, 90 perks on the Killer side and 101 perks on the Survivor side.
There's 2.5 million perk combinations on the Killer side, and 4 million on the Survivor side. "You must literally spend enough time to master the game" (assuming 1000 hours investment is enough for basic mastery) to everyone who wants to... experience that, ever, is not great. Not everyone's going to be able to put in more than a few hours a day, or maybe they can only play a few times a week. Several years of playing to be able to catch up to where a moving target was and still be way behind is a bad grind. And then there's prestige.
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@OverratedFool said:
It sounds like you guys at least agree with me that the situation for killer is much worse than for survivor. You're even giving the same reasons. I wouldn't have expected a guy with 500 posts on these forums (let alone 10k), to think the grind was too much though.
How many killers do you really fancy playing much, as a noob? If you're just doing a daily, or trying them out for a game or two, surely you don't need any perks at all. If you find a killer you enjoy, you'd then level that one up, no?
Survivor is way better except for completionists, at least if you just want to get a "good" perk selection and then just experiment, yeah. That much is pretty clear.
The problem is, if you focus on levelling even one Killer for a while, to the point of at least having a few perk choices, that's all well and good--well, until you want to try specific things (see my initial scourge hook complaint--I like the idea of scourge hooks and having the other one to go with Pinhead's would be fun, buuuut). Or, worse, outright play a new killer. Because MMR isn't super kind about it all, going into games with the RNG derp the Bloodweb's feeding you is not fun.
And personally, I find the least fun way to try a new character is "half blind, half deaf, with nothing to help with time pressure, or extra pressure on Survivors". I'm not going to get regularly matched against no-perk and random-perk survivors unless I do really badly, the extra disadvantages don't help make it enjoyable.
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I always find it impressive how many people claim that anyone tunnelling "doesn't know how to play".
If you expressly go out of your way to never do so and somehow get consistent wins, maybe, but I don't think a single person playing the game counts at that point.
@Anniehere said:
I'm waiting between 5 to 10 minutes to find a match.
In short I'm in the match less than 4 minutes, running and getting down all match without doing anything else.
The key problem here, then, is your queue times.
That and the strange double standard where being in a chase is simultaneously the only fun thing in the match and the only skilled thing a Survivor can do, but the instant it's all they get to do it's bad because they get a short game.
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@OverratedFool said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685404#Comment_2685404
You think that the grind for just the perk BBQ is "disgusting"?
Level 35 on a DLC Killer and then you need to hope it pops up on every Killer you want to play some time soonish? Yeah, that's kind of a pain to go through.
It doesn't help that generic Killer perks have, like, one good perk and a handful of situational ones? Jolt is useful. Fearmonger also sometimes (and those were previously DLC). Something like Thrill of the Hunt may be handy. Free killers... well, there's Tinkerer's as the standout for general utility. Nurse has some useful perks, on Nurse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm certainly not saying the grind is completely fine & I suggested a few ideas on how it could be lessened with various bloodweb changes & partial refunds in particular.
The vast majority of the bloodweb is irrelevant to me.
On the survivor side I never uses torches just not my thing so every torch & add on is a watse of blood points.
Most killer add ons aren't worth even half of what they cost.
I don't use map or mist offerings or those new pointless basement based here offering along with so many more.
The bloodweb needs a complete overhaul.
I would not be in favor of players choosing perks though while the grind & more especially the luck if which perks you unlock first promotes more varied game play.
New players should be looking to try out what they have not automatically jumping to meta perks they saw a streamer or guide use.
I don't run any meta perks on either side & do well enough with both.
Playing with multiple perks will ultimately make you a better player & give you far more varied games than just running meta all the time.
A lot of "try out what you have" runs face first into some perks being outright bad though, or totally unsuited for the killer in question. And everyone wants BBQ.
It'd be even more miserable if Jolt wasn't a generic perk now to make it easy to get; no gen regression assistance at all without getting the right characters. MMR doesn't care; do well you'll be shoved into a position you want something or other.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684695#Comment_2684695
There's no time disparity between new and old players. Older players have spent that time across the game's existence, new player have that ahead of them.
In the end both players have/had to invest the same amount of time. It's not an advantage to have purchased the game sooner; if anything it means the grind was longer for the veterans as they actually had to wait between the dlc drops with some wasting BP on maxed out characters for add-ons and offerings.
And having to invest the same amount of time actually makes for a surprisingly unfair playing experience, because only new players who have a lot of time to spend on this in particular are ever going to even slightly catch up. Meanwhile, more content is added, which is easier to grind for experienced players (more likely to have BP offerings etc. on other people, challenges to bank, BP saved...), and even more to catch up on.
DBD has the same sort of player-every-day incentive as mobile games do, but what it doesn't have is the sort of thing a lot of those start implementing once the game gets too much content for new players to ever reasonably catch up: outright free resources, some sort of time-limited bonus to make the early game grind much more bearable, or an outright skip button.
Because if you want everyone to go through the same time investment, you create a game state where newer players can't equally take part in new releases. Tome challenges that need characters and perks that might have not gotten attention, new character releases and even less position to try them out or experiment with their perks etc. on other characters, even random stuff like the event-limited addons you don't have the other tools to use. And this gap only gets worse and worse.
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@CashelP14 said:
I don't remember anyone saying the grind was fine
Well, there's at least one post in this thread already that strongly implies it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm a completionist so I want all characters on both sides p3 lv 50 with all perks as of last November I had that on 13 survivors & 11 killers on ps4.
Then I got a series X & started the whole grind again.
Currently Meg is p350 with all perks (including newest chapter) kate is also p350.
All other survivors are level 50 not prestiged.
All my killers are also level 50 none prestiged.
I play a lot (well I did time is way more limited recently, so limited i've only claimed the advent calendar twice!) & as a new play which I sort of was (started from scratch at least) I can see why some find it off putting but personally I think without the grind I wouldn't play nearly as much after so many years.
Like achievements in general my goal motivates me to continue onwards & I will make it too I don't doubt that.
At best i'd make all perks 1 level rather than 3 it would save millions of blood points & reduce the grind quite a bit.
Or maybe my preferred option would be to rework the entire bloodweb, add more perks per level & remove so many useless things your forced to buy that don't remotely resemble value for bloodpoints.
I'd also like an option to sell or I guess the entity would probably say burn junk my characters have for say a 50% bloodpoint refund which will also futher help with the grind at least a little.
The grind will always remain in some fashion or another like the archives its designed to encourage players to keep playing it works for me & many others until that changes not much else will either.
The grind always existing is one thing. It's when it's defended as okay in its current state that I get confused.
Bloodwebs full of random junk; no control over what perks appear when; needing them to show up multiple times... and it's all so very delayed, presumably as that's the best way to pad out non-completionist grinds on release. 40 bloodwebs for perk unlocks. Another half a dozenish or more per character per set of perks.
to just play with new perks on one character and every single character needs this same grind so don't you dare want to play with someone new unless you like MMR screwing with you and bad QoL...
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684665#Comment_2684665
Don't see how it's not/less fair. Like everyone else we put the time and effort into the characters for the perks, then did it again for the other characters we wanted them on.
New players have it no different, target the perks you want first then casually dump BP into grinding out the other stuff.
The only players this is actually tough on are completionists that chose to put everything on everyone.
Because new players are eternally faced with an even steeper and steeper grind to achieve parity. Every new release is like a casual 2-3 mil BP dumped onto the pile, on top of the millions and millions already needed.
If you started when there were less than half the characters, unlocking meta perks, levelling who you wanted, and getting meta perks would've been a comparatively small task. Each new content drop isn't that much in isolation (though if you want all perks on everyone for options then each release is also an incrementally larger grind than the previous one). But when you add it all up then even without prestige it's a freakin' cliff now.
The way the grind is set up is doubly punishing if you're new to it. You want to get good perks on one character? Well, you need to level this character, and every other character with a perk, then that first character again. Want to try a new perk? Hah, 40+ level grind. Want to try a new character? Well, hope you're either planning to wait another 16 hours of gameplay to actually have a nice selection or like playing with random derp.
Repeat this fifty something times across both roles.
Having been able to spread this grind out over the past five years is a massive advantage. Should every newcomer to the game be faced with a several year wait to just be able to make free choices? Except the amount of total grinding needed is exponentially (I mean this literally)† increasing with every content update?
† It's like compound interest. You add new fixed BP reqs (new character to get to 40-50, plus optional prestige) and a variable amount of BP that's based on the number of times you've done this before (unlocking all perks). I think the game is actually close to the tipping point, if not past it, where that variable perk-obtaining step is growing faster than the raw BP requirement to get the character stuff.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I see enough of the meta without it being an immediate option.
I mean, that's even less fair on newer players. "I want to see less meta, so it's good that you won't be able to employ competitive loadouts for another 100 hours of gameplay."
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684399#Comment_2684399
I don’t know if basement hooks should be Scourge hooks by default, but I’ve been pulling for a revamp of Monstrous Shrine to read
- Rescues off basement hooks take 2/3/4 seconds longer
- You can always see the basement hook auras
- All basement hooks count as Scourge hooks for related perks
That would give Monstrous Shrine some better abilities and also let it synergize with Scourge Hook perks.
Eh, but then you'd be pretty much forced into agitation with monstrous shrine (if you don't want a dead perk slot), and then the scourge hooks, and that's a lot just to get around "hook RNG is dumb".
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684313#Comment_2684313
I have to disagree. The obvious step is making CoH selfcare limited use. Cap it a two or three uses. It would still be strong, but more manageable.
Which would either necessitate reworking boons to also include tokens somehow (that everyone can see?), or a token-based thing visible to the player but usable by anyone, or everyone must now track this invisible boon use counter?
All of which requires heavily reworking how it operates, which is what I mean by not having left themselves much to tune.
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@thisgameblowsmajord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684261#Comment_2684261
weird bc i cant do gens or cleanse totems when i go against him..... i have to go for the box but thats insta down from him. was confused!
You have an entire minute and a half to go for the box. The box, in fact, spawns nowhere near Pinhead every time it appears. Going for the box is pretty safe compared to e.g. being chased off gens with a chain hunt going provided you solve it in a halfway-sensible spot and immediately break the chains.
Pick it up, go find a jungle gym or other horrible tile structure to stand in the middle of, solve and immediately break chains if he teleports to you. Pinhead will now show up staring at a wall unable to see you and you're in the best spot to start a chase from.
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The tunable parameters that the devs gave themselves for boons are a large contributor to why CoH is such a nightmare. i.e., the radius, time taken, restriction on booning (that is, none), who benefits, etc. are all currently shared by all boons. The only variable is currently the healing speed in CoH (plus providing self-care), which... isn't much to work with to rebalance it.
Oh, and the ancillary problem of all totems being in even more too-obvious places everyone can get to.
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I predicted that I'd see it more at my MMR (i.e., not high MMR... or just people playing at really weird times of day). Haven't played enough to see if that's the case, but there's also the whole see-if-it'll-take-a-while-for-them-to-unlock-it part.
Y'know, the MMR where people regularly fail at using DH properly.
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Otz vs RNG lobbies when not playing gimped is rarely going to be a fair comparison. The guy plays all the time, knows both sides, and is really good on top of that.
Like, there's a reason his 50-win streaks were without addons (or trading a perk slot for a necessary addon in some killers) even with the extra-stringent win condition he put in place, when matchmaking was even further potato.
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@Shenlong1904 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2682654#Comment_2682654
1. Very rude of you to use victim blaming for such a silly thing.
2. I'm not saying that the blame isn't on the one who does it, but the only one allowing it to affect you is well... You.
This isn't something easy, but it's something you need to do if you plan on playing ANY vídeo game.
That second point goes for literally everything that causes offence ever. You're just drawing a mental box around things that don't bother you or that you assume won't bother you to distinguish it from things that you would find too much, and saying that these actions should be handled by the recipient.
You're also making a lot of assumptions about my reaction: I never said teabagging affects me like that; I'm just entirely too used to bullies and their attitudes. And I really don't like this notion of "Well if you want to play a fun game with people, better accept bullying!" as if every other hobby doesn't tend to penalise and drive out people who're there to get a rise out of the other participants.
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@Shenlong1904 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2682639#Comment_2682639
The thing is, teabagging either affects the game positively for you or doesn't affect it at all. The only thing it can negatively affect is your mindset. My best tip against teabaggers is to just remember how childish they're being. Probably a teenager, or even worse, a whole adult, who thinks they are special because they outplayed you. If they're in solo q, their teammates probably dislike them as well.
What you're doing is victim blaming. Well intentioned victim blaming, but you're still saying it's the fault of the people this behaviour is targeted at, even though almost everyone playing the game understands what teabagging a killer is meant to mean and agrees that this can and does get to people.
Just because you or I don't get bothered by something, doesn't mean that between focusing on the person doing something wrong and the person being targeted, we should choose to harangue the person already having a bad time for not also doing better emotionally. Keep the blame on the jerks.
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@Shenlong1904 said:
Both the forums and the subreddit always were quite killer sided, treating killers like the underdogs while survivors as the big bad villain, but recently this has been worst than ever.
These forums have mostly become an echo chamber for killers who want the game to be shaped around them.
Like yes, I understand that this game is survivor sided, meaning that if both sides try their hardest and play almost perfectly, the survivors will mostly win.
But that doesnt mean yall can just act as if people who play survivor are the scum of the earth.
And holy hell, if the devs really decide to follow the general consensus of the forums, all matches would be a 4K at 5 gens.
The way some of yall get so offended by somebody's virtual avatar crouches over and over again.
Even I have gotten quite stressed because of this game, but I have never, never, never put blame on the survivors or the devs, because, as you so often repeat, "They bought the game, they play how they want"
Recently, almost every post has a variation of "survivor easy and no stress, so survivor players are babies. Killer hard and have stress, so killer players are oppressed".
If killer is so hard, then go play survivor and try it out. If you say it's easy and stress free, there are three things that could make you say that. 1.Low MMR for the skills you have 2.You stress yourself when playing killer. 3. You're lying.
Many times, when you're having a stressful time playing a game, all you need to do is relax and remember, its just a game, and the results don't matter.
But it seems that too many of you have put hours into getting better, and feel you deserve results, and therefore if you dont get those results, you'll feel cheated, which causes you to stress.
Yes, sometimes the game really is unfair, or atleast feels very unfair. But most of this unfairness is created by your expectations.
Hell, for some time i had quit DBD when i had around 700 hours in the game. Because I thought I deserved to win almost every match. And that simply wasn't true.
I play around 70% killer and 30% survivor if it matters.
Alright, rant over
FFS, nobody's getting offended by the actual teabagging part (or at least, I hope nobody finds "spam crouch button" actually in some way intrinsically upsetting, that would be pretty odd); it's the intent it signifies. Same as shouting profanities at people, rude hand gestures, insulting their parentage, random slurs, etc.
People just want to play the game without being taunted when they're losing, taunted even when they're technically winning, and just generally treated as unworthy of common decency. In isolation it's bearable, but if it keeps happening in game after game in one day? Very aggravating. Particularly when this is meant to be a fun experience and people are making it clear they don't want you to enjoy it.
When people say, "just ignore it", it makes me think they haven't actually had to deal with bullies. It's not something that stops, not giving them a reaction doesn't work if they even get one occasionally, and it isn't behaviour that you condone by turning a blind eye to and letting it sort itself out.
We all want to enjoy the game, yes? So can we not blithely accept the people who transparently want someone else not to?
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2682218#Comment_2682218
Yup. Empathy for the person whose game you are ruining sure is a weak argument. Glad we cleared that up. I welcome the apocalypse.
"It's not fun or fair if I die first this time" is a horrendously entitled opinion for an online game, so yeah. It's a very weak argument, demanding that other people play worse at a competitive game so that you hang around longer. Generally, a tactic reserved by sore losers and children if not agreed upon first (and of course, there's no pre-game chat, so it's hardly like anyone can agree to such a thing).
When the effectiveness of survivors doesn't diminish by numbers or hooking anyone is as good as hooking the same person, then we can talk about what's fair or not.
The only real problem with someone dying first is imbalanced queue times, but you're not going to fix that by asking Killers to not tunnel.
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@Saalaksin said:
Or, I hit them, eat the one second hitstun, and they get to rabbit for 20 seconds and lose up to 22 seconds of future protection.
What? No. You lose time hitting someone with BT before the protection expires. I have no idea where you're pulling this 22 seconds of future protection from.
If you count to 12 before hitting them, they're downed and hooked again. You lose 12s waiting out the BT.
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@Saalaksin said:
I know Decisive Strike is the one where they get a free wiggle out. That's fun counterplay! It means I get another chase! Borrowed Time is the one where they glow white for a moment instead of hugging the ground?
I was under the impression that it could only proc once per saviour per match? It doesn't really seem that strong, because I throw out a wild swing and now that perk is useless for the low-low cost of some hit cooldown.
BT is 12s where a hit will inflict a Deep Wound instead of downing. The answer is just to count to 12 before hitting them.
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@Saalaksin said:
One survivor ar 2/3 hooks is worth more XP to me than two survivors at 1/3 hooks and often they're a quicker Chase because they're still Injured and I now have a fresh stock of knives.
Going after the rescuer by choice is a bad decision for me in every sense of the word.
Oh, yes, and that's the crux of the problem.
People don't like being tunnelled and removed from the game early, but everything about it (except a few perk interactions) encourages Killers to do it and makes it more practical.
There are some people who think it's toxic behaviour, but the arguments for that are weak, so just do what you like and don't look at endgame chat much.
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If they do, that's their problem. You're not doing anything wrong by not sprinting away from the hook immediately; Killers have every reason to check there's no Boons in the area, or someone squatting behind a rock for a save, or hit a nearby gen, or just start patrolling the area and sometimes there's gens on either side.
People who instantly go for the unhook before anyone can possibly leave have no leg to stand on when complaining about camping.
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If every survivor had the massive pile of information perks that people here like to claim SWF always has no matter who it is or how incompetent, the game would get very boring. Good grief...
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@dallasmedicbag said:
I just hate the fact that they made her lullaby non-directional, like why? the lullaby is coming from her vocal chords so why in the hell is it non-directional? is the entity the one singing the lullaby?
Spooky atmospheric killer powers: you can hear them doing things but they could still be anywhere
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@Nathan13 said:
sounds like you’ve rage quitted before.
This is the guy with the utterly mysterious account-based DC
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Even more overshadowed by showing up in the same update as Pain Resonance, which can have an effect every hook, feeds you information, and is actually a setback rather than a cue for everyone remaining to play hide and seek for a minute.
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Does seem to cause a problem with e.g. Midwich's corridors, where it will take literally forever for Trickster/Huntress to catch up close enough that their first hit doesn't send the survivor yeeting off to who knows where due to the speed boost.
Something a bit counterintuitive about ranged killers possibly having even more of a pain with long, straight corridors than 115 killers.
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Ah, teabagging. So you chose death.
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@gatsby said:
I wanna know people's take on this.
Should there be a level of skill a Killer can reach where they consistently win or should Survivors always be at a power level where they can overcome even the strongest Killers?
In a 1v1 it's a necessity.
1v4 it should probably be a coinflip, since there's more room for skill in teamwork there.
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10m sounds about right.
Or: if you can hear it, there's 50/50 odds you don't need to hear it.
Now, if only the game had some concept of vertical audio...
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2681341#Comment_2681341
Hm...guess I'd rather find a survivor then not find a survivor though.
That's pretty much a worst-case scenario: teleporting over because you don't have another, better target and jumping straight into being looped is the better solution.
Sometimes it's someone you'd rather be chasing for other reasons, but that's... about it. Or they're being dumb and doing it in a field, but "my power is viable only if the Survivor catastrophically misplays" is bad power design.
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/298515/whats-the-point-in-pinhead
It's all about the chains, baby!
I use Pinhead quite often and win quite often. (Mind you, I probably have quite the low MMR.) As far as his box goes, as soon as a survivor picks it up, he can teleport to it and get that survivor. Plus, if he finds the box, he can not only start the chain hunt instantly, but also see the auras of the survivors for a few seconds. I don't like what they did with his chain whip (maybe that's just me, but it seems "softened"), and I hardly use add-ons as I'm really bad at using his special. (I'm just not quick enough with the aim and fire)
Teleporting with Pinhead is actually one of the worst things you can possibly do with him. It ends the Chain Hunt for another two minutes (unless you can find the box spawn). You start off at least 10m away from a Survivor, and by the time you teleport they've broken the chains (so that's a normal chase at best). Most decent Survivors realise to just get into a jungle gym or something now and you'll end up teleporting to them facing a wall, so you won't even have LOS and you're asking to be looped.
His only advantage is the chain hunts but they nerfed the ability to maintain those because people were just bad at dealing with it if he was actually in a viable position to keep them going--i.e., half his perks and both addons devoted to having mapwide pressure. Guess they'd rather have pressure via gen slowdown etc. and the usual perk offenders.
Most of his addons are completely pointless. Extra range is between useless (takes too long to get portal out of standard range) to harmful (misses are extra bad). Reduced CD or turning speed don't do anything. Greasy Lens is somewhat helpful with Engineer's Fang (still good, but it's one-hit-now-be-M1 killer), and so's the deep wound one. Impaling Wire does nothing against Survivors who just know to dodge the followups. Chatterer's Tooth + Iridescent Box can be fun for a stealth killer/info combo though (and forcing people to come for the box at more predictable times, or waste time searching).
His M2's tendency to screw itself over by chain spawn and Pinhead breaking it and addons in general need another pass.
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This does raise an interesting question of what the primary purpose of medkits are, and specifically what the effect of healing is on overall game balance. Because the idea would seem to be that medkits let survivors heal each other faster, but they're primarily used for self healing.
And every complaint about self-healing speeds and CoH circle back to the same thing: if Survivors can heal themselves at normal speed or more, it completely neuters the way most Killers are designed to apply pressure and slow the game down. Cue the endless tunnelling/genrushing argument.
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@IronKnight55 said:
It definitely isn’t healthy. I see some nerfs coming her way.
I don't think whether or not something is healthy for the game has even the slightest correlation with the wild flailing of BHVR's nerfbat.
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If you're tunnelling because you somehow keep missing the other people entirely, then yes.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2679325#Comment_2679325
I don't play multiplayer games that often so i don't know that many of them but there are very few games i know that have this constant action like killer in dbd has.
In shooters there is a timer when you die or you have to wait for the next match. In moba's there is a lot of farming as far as i know. In a lot of rts's there is a rebuilding fase after armies clash.
Fighting games are the closest to this i can think of but those matches are a lot shorter then dbd matches
A lot of games (some platformers, soulslikes, racing games) only really have a stress-free downtime when you choose to stop at a menu and navigate things. In that regard, I think most action games are actually pretty similar to DBD: when you're in game, there's rarely going to be a breather where you can stop and take it easy.
DBD has the same menu -> period of constant action structure, so I don't think it's terribly atypical in that regard, but the stress doesn't really have corresponding moment-to-moment highs, it's all in the kills/results.
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It's not OK, but at least you're not trapping the rest of the players in a bad game they'd also be penalised for quitting.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Funny how i just said this in another thread.
The thing is killer is just stressfull by design. They are in constant action and under constant time pressure. There never is a real downtime with killer unless your so far ahead you can't lose anymore.
Survivors just don't have this as much. While you will have times where you get tunneled back to back a single game where someone else is the target is all you need to atleast regain a little composure.
Couple that with the state of balance and killer mistakes in general being much harder punished then survivor mistakes and you have a role that's under constant pressure.
The frustration builds up causing more mistakes and more frustration untill it suddenly snaps.
You'll notice that a lot of these "I'm leaving" generally come from "mains" very rarely will somebody make a goodby post and say they play both sides. They always play the most pressured side back to back. Being a pure killermain wouldn't be a good idea even if the game was more balanced
That's why M'Cote's advice of "play something else" is so misunderstood. It really makes a world of difference to even have a little breathing room. It's one of the best advices we could have had but we took it completly the wrong way.
Even the most intense action movie will never have action non-stop. It's always action into slow scene into action into slow scene etc.
Our brain is just not wired to deal with that constant stimulation. The game and bassicly everything in life becomes a lot less frustrating if you remind yourself to take a step back once in a while
Honestly, I think the comparative constant stress would be fine (there's a lot of games that get to be like that when you play them all the time), if it wasn't for the current game balance/design adding stressors. I think the posts further up partly got to it: you're not getting a good payoff for doing well as a killer a lot of the time. You win a chase/mindgame, and you have to do part 2 of the chase. You land a tricky power shot or do well with it? Well, play the wrong killer and it hasn't done anything.
And every mistake is basically followed by "ping! one gen has popped". A survivor mistake can be followed by something as simple as "I need to heal."
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Pinhead might be fine if his addons did anything or his power didn't have the hilarious combo of "you walking towards them will break a chain" and "one of the chains spawns from the portal that is generally between you and the surv".
Concept is fine, controls are fine, but in practice box-protecting has been shot, and how meaningless the majority of his addons are has become really clear.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2679141#Comment_2679141
Blight/Spirit/Nurse don't "counter" distance gaining perks because they still have to travel a further distance to get you and most of each survivor's goal is to waste as much of the killer's time as possible so the others can repair/heal/unhook. Also if you can travel more distance faster you're more likely to get to the next pallet or window. Only Nurse counters that, which was already mentioned earlier.
Yes, stealth killers annoy me when I'm running perks that need a TR to activate like Stake Out or Pebble. But that's like two perks and hardly a build lol.
Aren't there plenty of people complaining that anti looping killers force shift + W gameplay?
It's weird to complain about a killer almost completely negating my favorite aspect of playing survivor? Ok then. Isn't 99% of this forum complaining? Lol
I can always stop complaining and run DS/DH/BT or a gen rushing build if that makes you happy 🤷♀️
Play what you want. Complain about what you want.
Just don't be the guy who throws his team's chances out the window and ruins everyone's fun because somebody else wants to play the Killer they bought.
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@GoshJosh said:
Yep, Plague’s is one of the most broken (pun intended) designed powers in the game. It’s especially fun with her new infecting gens for over a minute build. No other killer can force you to play the game injured (no point cleansing, you just get infected again repairing gens or do nothing all game). Negating a host of perks and items.
So it’ll be a five minute wait/kill me right away Vommy Mommy until she gets a rework.
So, you're going to ruin four other people's games until a Killer's power is completely changed.
Great.
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678354#Comment_2678354
But it works. So people do it. Even though they know it makes them out to be a dick. They don't care because they "Play how they want."
Also, if you don't think camping is annoying among it's other issues, you are mistaken.
And "play how you want" stops when you're actually harming other people.
Comparing flashlight macros to camping is a ridiculous false equivalence.
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The chain nerf is specifically if running Engineer's Fang.
Admittedly, that's still the best thing he can use, but it's not like his M2 has only 2 chains in other situations.