RainehDaze
RainehDaze
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I'd like a clockpunk or steampunk robot killer, I guess? Outright sci-fi is a bit hard without licenses.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678346#Comment_2678346
Forza 5 is poppin off pretty hard right now.
Yeah, I played some NFS stuff first, but I moved onto Forza Horizon 5 the other day.
Did make playing a few rounds in DBD super weird, everything felt so slow.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
It has a 50% chance to do less than nothing if the chains spawn badly. The other 50 results in a slightly better version of clowns slow bottles.
Fact of the matter is that his chain hunt is his main ability. The regular chain is too difficult to control and it's potential reward doesn't fit the demand
But Clown has good addons.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678352#Comment_2678352
Yeah everyone wants Clans.
No, it's another DLC, sort of a mini campaign within the open world and a ton of new mech variants.
I'm guessing the modding scene has also worked wonders since I last played it (Battletech fans tend to meticulously add everything from the lore that a base game lacks even if they have to hack it in somehow).
When I played (before any DLC came out), they'd meticulously added everything that should be present in the IS up until after the Clan invasion, complete with Clan variants of everything. Oh, and they'd totally rejigged the mechlab to have proper slots for things, and endoskeletons etc and every damn 'mech variant they could. So, if that's been updated, yeah, you can get your full "I will make the most perfect lance full of nigh impossible tech" fix. Still... missing all the Clan 'mechs and that sucks.
Though, this does make me want a robot killer in DBD now. Probably not a scifi giant robot style one, maybe a bit more clockpunkish. But definitely insane robot murderer lol.
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@Pizzasauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677856#Comment_2677856
Survivors have no obligation not to flick their flashlights at you to death, which is an effective strategy at distracting you, yet doing so is kind of being a dick, don't you think?
I don't think that's an effective strategy, it's just an annoying background noise.
If it's effective, it's because it's triggering photosensitivty in other people. Which is a bit beyond kind of being a dick and into "things that should be obliged to not happen because actually hurting people is not on in a game".
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678340#Comment_2678340
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678346#Comment_2678346
I've got...so many games on my backlist now.
Guardians
Stardew Valley (promised the wife I'd try it)
The Riftbreaker (my GOTY thus far)
The Mass Effect remastered stuff
Satisfactory
The new Mechwarrior 5 expansion
That should comfortably take me up until Lost Ark get's it's western release next year.
Oh yeah, MW5 got an expansion, right? This is the one that gives a non-story campaign so you can just go around being a merc band?
Though I really want a Clan expansion as always; what's the point of a MW game if you don't have at least Clan stuff, if not absurd stuff like the Long Tom (I know mods add them but eeeh)
... nobody's really gone to other horror games, huh?
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
All of the stuff going on was enough to get me back into Fortnite. Just wow...
I've gone for racing games, myself.
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Honestly, the limericks are impressive, even if some of them don't fit the rhythm properly.
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I dunno, "stop sweating" is honestly terrible advice. Yeah, if you can completely reorient your gameplay experience around self-made objectives and wilfully ignore what the game is actually telling you to do and how you should do it, that's one way to get fun out of the game.
But you shouldn't be put into a position where your choice is to play in a way you don't have fun, or play for hours+ losing everything until you get to somewhere you can goof off and maybe have fun, and then hope MMR is playing nice and you're not still going to get matched with people who are sweating.
And there should really be a sweet spot where trying to win doesn't hit this yoyoing point of going from stomp -> sweatfest -> stomp -> sweatfest. Which seems to be another thing we see a lot of threads about...
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I don't think hook grabs are the reason for facecamping. See Bubba. Or just anyone who's worked out if you hit a healthy survivor before they get in for the save you have time to down them before the unhook completes.
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Now try to come up with something that prevents facecamping but won't be used by Survivors as a tactic against the Killer.
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@Impartiality said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677924#Comment_2677924
No it’s an online PvP game, there shouldn’t be a power role. It should be balanced.
It's an online asymmetrical game. In a 1v1 situation, there should be a power role.
It should feel balanced in the 1v4, though, you're right there. But it generally doesn't.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677742#Comment_2677742
What anecdote? Do math. Time to find a totem. Time to boon it. Time to heal. That already is larger than the 32 seconds a self care takes without bonuses like a medkit or botany knowledge.
Again, the numbers only work out in CoH's favor if the totem is nearby and ignored by the killer. Of the totem is set up on the other side of the map, you could have self cared in the time it took to run there and then heal.
These are subjective "feelings". It's cold, hard numbers that don't give an eff about your feelings on the matter. If all four ran self care, it would, the majority of the time, be more efficient with time than to use CoH. Spend more time on gens.
So again, go ahead and delete the perk so we can go back to eyerolling over the dead hard and decisive strike complaints.
The numbers work out in CoH's favour even if the totem isn't ignored by the killer, because it manages to be a timesink for the Killer†. Time to travel to the affected area is also generally in its favour because of the sheer radius of the things (~1/4 map coverage most of the time, IIRC) and simply not doing it right next to the Killer anyway. In fact, we can easily work out the maths on when travel time to the totem area is less efficient than on-the-spot self-care: if you're within 64m of the thing (16*4m), or ~36m without running. Consider that the boon totem covers 24m radius, and most maps are not, in fact, 112m across except from corner to corner, and the travel time is actually in favour of travelling to the boon in almost all cases. We can't factor in travel from the healing area to gens because that's inconsistent and you might have to do that anyway, or there might be one near the boon that was left for later etc.
Therefore, doing maths empirically suggests that CoH is more efficient than running self-care. It's also more perk efficient (you don't take 4 perk slots for the effect and therefore two people can bring other perks), allows for everyone to bring toolboxes and still self-heal (more item and gen efficient) or flashlights (more annoyance efficient).
† We could roughly graph this by working out how far both the killer and the survivor were from the totem when they went to boon/snuff it, assuming perfect pathing in each case. But it's a moot point because if you're more than about 12m away to start with, it's already way more survivor time efficient, and it's only audible within those ~12m. Killers incidentally snuffing boons that they happen to come across after a chase or hooking someone is the only situation they aren't wasting ungodly time chasing them.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677704#Comment_2677704
Right, because people's thoughts and feeling always trump cold hard data. Oh wait...
Regardless. As I've said, go ahead and delete the perk. It has no effect on my play, because I don't run the perk or rely on it. Then you can get back to whining about dead hard and DS like normal.
Edit: I would agree that boons are busted on RPD.
You'd need to provide data, and your anecdotal experiences don't outweigh everyone else's anecdotal experiences. Which only leaves us with some hard data for snuffing time and placement time but those are under ideal conditions.
If the totem is ideally located and easily found then yes, a Killer may indeed win on time efficiency if they snuff it every time it goes up, before it's used for healing--but they rarely aren't that ideally located. The audio cue is also much smaller than the actual radius of the totem, which increases the time to find it. Then RPD, the Game, numerous main buildings etc. all allow placing totems in very safe spots that take too long to traverse.
If a boon totem is used once (assuming that bones would have been done eventually because of Noed or Ruin or other Hexes), then it's saved 2s of Survivor heal time. If it's used twice, then it's saved 18s of Survivor time (either one person could stay on gens or faster than self-care). Then multiplicative stacking etc up to and including mid-chase heals.
And if it gets the benefit of being placed in some secure building spot, then it's a net gain on survivor time every time the killer goes up to it, just because killer traversal time is worth four times as much as survivor traversal time. Unless someone is dead, but I thought we wanted to avoid tunnelling as a necessary strategy. That's assuming it's put in the same spot and they don't check the wrong place first.
So if we want to rely on numerical analysis, then the Killer only gains time from boon totems under ideal circumstances. Every other interaction with it is an increasing time gain for Survivors... again, even without its effect being used. And because of how powerful CoH's effect is against attritional gameplay, it makes ignoring boons or breaking bad chases suboptimal.
It's one perk that simply does too much.
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@Feyd said:
It doesn't though. The speed is the same speed as having someone else heal you. The 100% just removes the -50% penalty for self caring. That's it.
Unless someone else heals you, then it's like having We'll Make It active. I ran the boon for about three days after it came out, then just went back to self-care, botany, and a medkit. It's not reliable to keep the boon active and is less efficient for your time than just getting on a gen.
You also have to find a totem that someone else hasn't broken. There's just too many downsides to setting up the perk that self care just wins out logically. It's the same problem inner strength has. Useful if you were just breaking a totem anyway and had it ready, but not reliable. Again, too niche for me. Go ahead and ruin it.
It's the same speed as having someone else heal you, without that other person having to devote time to heal you. i.e., it's a net gain on Survivor time. Attritional play is dead whilst this is in its current form.
Like, you can insist that it's bad and niche and everyone else is wrong and it doesn't provide a huge effect for the team at low perk cost, but I think if killer mains, survivor mains, people who play both sides, and the majority of high-MMR streamers think it's too much at its current state and having deleterious effects on gameplay, the evidence is not in your favour.
We also haven't gotten even slightly into its interaction with vertical maps and buildings, which immediately shifts the time value massively in favour of using it. It's good and there are entire maps and areas that make it even better, which is just nuts.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677647#Comment_2677647
Not saying said nerf is to the ground. I'm just saying I wouldn't care if you did. You could make it a blank perk that did nothing and it wouldn't affect me at all.
Math just isn't in favor of CoH. Between the time to find a totem and set it up, even if the killer doesn't snuff it, add in running to the totem and heal time... You would be more efficient to just work on gens and then self care when injured.
The only time it does much of anything is if it's nearby, the killer doesn't snuff it, and the killer let's you heal. Then and only then is it really effective. It's so niche that I'm amazed people complain about it.
Because, as basically everyone else has realised rather than insisting on maths that assumes the Killer finds it instantly every time, it has an outsized impact on how Killers have to play around it. Once CoH is up, dropping a chase after one hit is no longer an option: the injured Survivor is guaranteed to be able to heal if you don't stop them and healing the injured Survivor won't detract any from team time, and this is only amplified with other healing effects that are then being sped up.
It completely nullifies attritional gameplay because, if the Killer does break chase and goes to get the totem, not only is the injured Survivor not downed, they probably have enough time to be healed in other means anyway!
Plus CoH is just overtuned. Yes, it needs to do something better than other healing perks to make up for taking time to set up and having a limited area. Providing self-care and doubling all healing speeds making it better than anyone bringing any other healing perk and supercharging medkits was overboard.
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@Bwsted said:
Because... basement doesn't need buffs? If you want to play basement use a basement build. Scourges ain't that.
"Basement doesn't need buffs" is possibly one of the strangest sentiments I've seen.
Beneficial geography and being good for trapping doesn't mean that everything else that interacts with it isn't utter potato.
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I want to play her, but to do that I would have to do endless level grinding. Though I don't think that would help your desire for good Spirits. :T
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676765#Comment_2676765
Survivors are not a top tier pick always.
Just because survivors are just skins, as opposed to killers that possess individual abilities, survivors' strength is still impacted by what they bring into the trial. Going by extreme examples, the best survivor in the world is going to be very different in strenghts between different iterations of themselves, going from perkless, to full meta loadout, to soloq, to 4-man, etc.
Survivors are a top tier pick when there's 4 ceiling-skilled survivors, coordinating together on comms, bringing the most stacked loadouts. That's akin an omega blink Nurse with full slowdown. Outside of this example, every survivor team below that varies in strength, just like the other killer characters do.
Or are you telling me that the average teams you see in pubs are top tier? Because that's simply counterfactual.
That's why the whole argument of survivor/killer sided doesn't hold water without context. Why are we to consider survivors as if they were always playing with full nuclear firepower, but not killers? And that includes the choice of the specific killer characters. Which inevitably vary in viability, as it's literally the case in every game that always inevitably develops a meta at the top.
If anything, you outright contradict yourself. Killer is always a potential top tier pick because the single player has always the option of the best of the best meta. And that meta can actually contend with the survivors'.
Survivors are an S-Tier pick the same way an S-Tier Killer is an S-Tier pick. Of course, it's dependent on the player and the perks and the addons. But there's only one tier of Survivor because they're all visually identical. Same way a Survivor could have a less optimal loadout or be a worse player or be playing in a suboptimal environment, a Killer can have a worse loadout and be worse. The only difference is the teamwork, which yeah, that's unique to the side that is actually a team.
You literally can't make a bad survivor choice if you're being matched against opponents of equal skill and perk selection, because there is no choice (hoping people don't spot you aside). There is such a thing as a bad killer choice. 90% of killer choices, in fact, once the idea of game balance is actually relevant.
Or: picking an s-tier choice against an f-tier choice doesn't guarantee victory in isolation, but once you have equal skill it probably does.
And it's a bad place for game balance when one side is always the s-tier choice and the person not picking an s-tier choice has to hope they screw up from the very, very beginning.
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@premiumRICE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675604#Comment_2675604
it actually does, no game has every viable option in tier S
No, it doesn't. You have one unofficial tournament, with a small sample size in terms of games, which excludes nearly 90% of the roster. It's a bad balance argument on those grounds alone because we don't have the missing Killers to draw conclusions from because nobody actually tried them outside of, like, three games.
With regards to "no game has every viable option in tier S": the problem is that said games are pitting two options from multiple tiers against each other. But survivors are essentially always a top tier pick in this sort of analogy; the only hope for a non-top tier Killer is that the Survivors play badly and go for suboptimal loadouts, even if the Killer is specced correctly.
If one side is always an S Tier pick, the other side needs to be all S Tier. You do not have a functional balance if you tell people "90% of your choices always have the option of putting you in an unwinnable game regardless of your performance :)"
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676643#Comment_2676643
That's assuming all four survivors are up and running. And the killer takes 1/7th of the time to snuff it, so I think we're good.
If it takes the killer 2s to snuff the totem (the actual animation lock and anim), then they gain 1.5s total assuming they took 1/4 of the time to get to the thing as the survivor did. But the odds that it took 1/4 of the time to walk to the totem are extremely low: if it's just out in the open, the time spent was likely about the same, and if it's in one of those annoying upstairs spots or the killer just doesn't stumble on it by accident and has to look, the survivors gain time.
So boons in general balance out to survivor-favoured on time if the killer snuffs it. And CoH is just timesave central if it stays up due to its ridiculous multiplier nature and being faster than self-care. With no other sources of accelerated healing, is it slower than "hide behind first wall seen and self-care"? Marginally. Every other scenario? Faster. Every survivor that doesn't then need to bring self-care or a medkit or find someone else? Now it's racked up utility on top of still being faster than whatever healing they were going to do anyway.
CoH makes the boon time equation absurd.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676331#Comment_2676331
That's not true. It's only a net gain if the boon affects more than one heal. If it gets snuffed after one heal, survivors gain nothing. If it gets snuffed before one heal, survivors lose time.
The survivors will always gain time if it takes the Killer more than 1/4 of the time to snuff it that it took to set it up. Therefore, the survivor can spend four times as much time finding it as the killer does.
Any actual effect of the boon totem is a bonus on top of that.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676370#Comment_2676370
Yeah, you're really not debating in good faith here. I see the core of your point, but it's buried beneath layers of sweeping generalizations that are trivially easy to break in half and those generalizations don't paint you in an honest light.
I play killer to have fun chases, to earn an actually reasonable amount of bloodpoints, and be able to recognize memey situations as they happen, and when I'm not trying to bring my MMR back up, I usually let survivors go at the end unless they do something to un-earn it. I like playing killer more than survivor. Bam. Automatically you're wrong about All Killers.
We'll Make It, Deliverance, Adrenaline, Detective's Hunch, Windows of Opportunity, and Lithe are strong perks that help survivors not die that nobody ever complains about. Bam. Automatically you're wrong about "everything good is broken and needs to be nerfed." I could explain how the vast majority of killers disagree that most other strong survivor perks are a problem, with Dead Hard and CoH being the only ones players consistently take issue with in their current state, but it's easier to just point to the ones literally nobody cares about but are still very much worth running. Still, you can say killer main bias all you like, but whenever I see someone make a thread whining about BT/Unbreakable/DS, the overwhelming response they get is "just don't tunnel/slug/camp."
A survivor that's better than a killer should be able to hold out for a long time (I disagree on indefinitely simply because that isn't balanced in an asymmetrical game, but long enough that committing to bad chases means the killer loses the game, yes), but the nature of a chase isn't just looping. Different killers require different strategies and a killer isn't invalid, unfair, or in immediate need of a nerf if their counterplay isn't standard looping. You complain that it's taking skill out of the equation, but I'd argue inflexibility is unskilled in and of itself, and trash talking 'holding W' just makes you sound petulant that you can't pull your preferred strategy in every game. This has been a thing in the game since Huntress. Nurse, even, though she's a terrible example. Still. It's not new.
I also believe that for the killers who don't have anti-loop tools, it's still not necessarily a matter of skill - I mean, it is, but a killer that plays everything right will still spend an unreasonable amount of time in chase against an equally skilled survivor simply because most maps provide enough resources that, when used perfectly, can stall the killer for deleterious amounts of time, and the killer starts off in a losing position when they need to remove these resources before they can get downs. Which is why 3 gens popping in the first chase is such a common phenomenon. It's often not possible to catch the first survivor earlier than that if they know how to run tiles and the tiles have enough visibility that mindgames are only effective if survivors aren't on their best game. Killer gameplay is very reliant on survivor mistakes; it's why SWFs cause so much fuss. But a survivor that makes minimal mistakes is a difficult opponent to crack regardless of how skilled you are and it comes down to brute force, which - your claim that if you can't down someone in 30 seconds, you suck as a killer? I disagree. If the survivor goes from healthy to downed in under 30 seconds, and they weren't instadowned or caught in a dead zone, they either messed up or they're below average.
Anyway, what I was getting at is that the increased prevalence of anti-loop killers feels like it's in response to this continued failure of map design.
Oh, and then there's the outright cheaters who use stretched res to disable mindgames on even more loops.
The very possibility of that sours me on looping-focused killers.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676382#Comment_2676382
Ah, I now I can't really reply because you chose Pinhead as the example.
I never faced this killer. Not even once.
Left the game way before his reveal.
I mean, he's definitely the premier example of a recent release whose power is only somewhat helpful in chases but compensates in strong map pressure... but the ability to keep that map pressure going got super nerfed.
Definitely not sending a good sign for getting non-1v1 focused killers going forward.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676374#Comment_2676374
"I don't want to 4k every game. I just want every survivor to go down in less than 30 seconds regardless of how well I play."
If you aren't lying, then you're lacking self-awareness to a staggering degree.
I want a game where the outcome of chases is meant to be consistent.
If it's expected that equal skill should have a 50/50 outcome, then it shouldn't be the case that a long chase is enough time for half of the survivor objectives to complete across the map.
If the game is supposed to be balanced so that gens can complete in a chase, then the outcome of a chase should always be assumed to be "the Survivor will go down" and the goal is buying as much time as possible.
The way Killer powers are structured and the current and continuing speed of gens suggests that the second one is supposed to be the game's balance. If the game is supposed to be a 1v1 looping skill test, then a lot more needs to be restructured, and the first priority is not complaining about every killer that doesn't play around loops "normally."
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So... what did they look like before? I didn't really pay attention and can't remember.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676361#Comment_2676361
Either lying or being facetious. You all do want 4k every game. Any perk that helps survivors not die immediately is considered completely broken, no matter how effective it may actually be in practice.
You are the one ignoring skill. If survivor better than killer, survivor should win chase. Smart killer goes for weaker prey. If killer is better, he should get a quick hook and move on. In fact, survivor skill already means less, because you just have to pick off the weaker survivors until it no longer matters how good the survivor wins. EGC completely nullifies the survivor's skill in the end if you pick off all his friends. Luck determines who finds hatch first, and whether the gates are close enough to guarantee killer victory.
The game is already heavily in killer's favor. It's why perks like BT and DS even exist. Because it's very easy to down trash survivors and leave the good ones screwed, unable to do anything except go do inevitably, sooner or later.
So, your default assumption is to call every Killer who says they don't want a 4k every game a liar?
I'm not sure what you expect to gain out of discussions if you're just going to tell everyone you talk to "I won't believe anything you say where it's inconvenient to me".
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676339#Comment_2676339
There is an inevitable loss. When pallets in area = 0. At that point, there is a strict time limit as you move faster and get faster the longer the chase goes on. Again, of course, unless you get completely outplayed and the survivor escapes for a bit.
If the survivor outplays you for that long, you deserve to lose. I know it feels like you should get victories purely because you clicked "play killer", but you don't. There are real people on the other side of that screen and you aren't entitled to ruin their day without earning it.
Ah, there's the problem! You're saying, "you deserve to lose (the game) because you lost (this 1v1)", but again, it is a 1v4 game. It being balanced so that any single interaction could be game-defining is bad for that aspect. It's not "One Hero Survivor and 3 Genrushing Hobos".
And the point of Killer powers is to avoid this balance. Either whilst they're doing the chase, pressure is somehow applied to the other 3 survivors; or they have a power that is much better at ending the 1v1 one way or the other, or they just have the mobility to bounce from survivor to survivor whilst also chasing. Or trap-based killers who just skip the chase aspect entirely by outplaying.
Hard to tell whether the 1v4 pressure or the 1v1 advantages get more complaints, though.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676339#Comment_2676339
Pallet Looping cannot infinitely keep a killer at bay, tho.
Even Blood Lodge, once nicknamed "pallet town" couldn't do that.
It can't and pseudo-infinites do eventually get addressed (sometimes), which is the clue that it's not meant to be possible. But every Killer with some good 1v1 power gets this same response of not allowing for being outplayed like you're supposed to be able to drag it on indefinitely.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676273#Comment_2676273
"Outplaying"
Imagine stating the exact reason looping is fun and should be the prime design of the chase, but still complaining about it.
Yes. If you OUTPLAY the killer, you should be able to run him indefinitely. That's called being better than you. That's how good balance works. The better player wins.
They keep adding killers that make this less of a thing. Taking skill out of the equation and just making every chase a matter of time until you go down. The most skilled thing you can do... Is nothing. Just run. Yaaaay.... So fun. I guess it is for the unskilled killers that can't loop but just want easy downs.
Except, this game is asymmetrical.
Which is the key problem here.
You can't make take your 1v4 game and balance it for perfectly equal 1v1 moments. The instant you finish doing that, you've decided that the 1 side should lose and the teamwork side of the 4 isn't important.
And that's why I said infinitely outplaying. If you want to keep the power imbalance, and make sure it's a team effort not a solo one, then there should be an inevitable loss. Buying a lot of time is an option, being able to clearly win each time is not.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
Takes 14s to set up CoH and ~3s to remove it....
3+s is a long time for a Killer to be spending on a side objective that will just pop right back up. And bonus points for being usable to tell every single Survivor where the Killer just was.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676218#Comment_2676218
She’s unfun to go against in your opinion. Just because you find something unfun doesn’t mean it deserves to get nerfed to the ground.
The people who really like looping seem to think everyone else does and that the game should be balanced around these 1v1 moments only. Anything that doesn't allow for infinitely outplaying the Killer and making the rest of the match and gameplay irrelevant is "unfun" by default.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671765#Comment_2671765
I don't even think Plague is a good comparison. She's a beast when she gets her fountains going, but if survivors deny her her power, then everyone is permanently broken and extremely easy to track by sound and sight. She benefits either way.
Pinhead without chain hunts is a sad mess of a killer who takes all the precision of Nurse for all the power of Clown.
It'd be fantastic if we could see some touchups to underperforming killers, but the killers that are in a bad state aren't always going to be the ones that get tweaked; the data doesn't line up perfectly with realistic performance.
Plague embodies what built-in counterplay to a power should be in my opinion. If everyone totally ignores it, they're playing a very dangerous game and handing over information, but she's relying on M1's. If one person doesn't ignore it, 3 people are potentially in a very bad situation. And if everyone cleanses, it's wasted time and given her more tools.
Pinhead's got none of the tradeoffs. You go for the box. You have to be an idiot to not go for the box. The box is even weaponisable against him without much work, you just go somewhere with a nasty loop away from gens, and the spawn conditions will generally favour genless areas over time. The supposed downside of box-hunting is also bad for Pinhead.
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I wonder if part of this is just the disconnect between Survivor wins and Killer wins. Like, a survivor dies: they lost. A survivor escapes: they won. Very simple, binary yes/no on whether you met your win condition.
The killer's objectives are to protect the gens and kill the survivors. So, anything less than a 4k before the gates are opened is still telling you you failed one of your objectives somehow. Down to 2k (which is ostensibly a draw), you've completely failed on more than half of what you're meant to do.
A clean 4k is the only result where the game can clearly be said to be a win, and not "it's a win, but..."
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I've definitely seen plenty of breakable wall complaints. Map designers and their damn obligatory-to-break breakable walls...
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As for the actual assessment, I'd say that's 11 wins for killers, 12 draws, and 13 wins for Survivors (I refute the notion that having extra hook states counts as a win unless you were using it like goal difference with tied points; you still didn't finish the person). Of those killer wins, half a dozen were Blight, 3 were Nurse, and 1 each of Huntress/Spirit.
This supports the thing people are actually complaining about: the game is horrifically survivor sided against the majority of the roster, and only a tiny number of killers can consistently pull off wins in these scenarios because of mobility or outright ranged pressure. But there's 26 killers in the game. And it's not balanced at the high end if you exclude 80% of the roster from being playable at all, because all the highly skilled and high-MMR players picking those are not having an even time.
I don't think we should draw the tautological reasoning from this of "the game is balanced because the things that aren't played at the top end aren't played at the top end". It'd be like having an RTS where entire factions aren't played competitively because they're not viable, but saying the game is balanced because the factions that are viable are still being played. You're just ignoring the things that aren't balanced at all once you do that.
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Pinhead, but that's probably as much the grind punishing me for daring to want to play with anyone else for even three games.
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Trying to use bold text inline to create a summary is terrible readability, FYI. Particularly with this forum's font and colours, it barely stands out at all.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2651028#Comment_2651028
Nah, it's not. Do challenges and dailies and play Killer to grind out BP super fast. I got Artist to P3 from almost 0 bp and 0 shards in less than a day.
It absolutely is that bad and challenges and dailies don't ######### help. They actually make it worse, because on top of the obnoxious grinding requirements to be able to choose who I want to play and how I want to play them, they tell me "go play a character you don't enjoy or haven't grinded perks on and achieve a particular thing, then you can have your smattering of in game currency". Bonus points for all the rift challenges about playing Trickster that assume you have, in fact, unlocked the bloody thing.
Your ability to no-life grind up one character does not mean that the rest of us have the time or inclination to put up with this misery in an endless game of catchup, even without thinking about touching the utter waste of time that prestige is.
After I've got maybe 250k BP in a day and it all goes into a black hole of levelling some other character to the point I don't even get a teachable but not enough to enjoy playing them or get some build choice, I'm burnt out. I'm the one who's spent money on these characters, so why exactly do I have to turn the game into a job before I can just use them properly?
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@Ink_Eyes said:
I agree the map was extremely strong when it came out, all windows open, lots of pallets and infinite loops, right now 95% of the windows are closed and the only ones that remain are the ones on the 2nd floors that are basically not that bad since the killer doesn't get stunned like a survivor does after the fall, basically an advantage for the killer unless you have balanced landing, on top of that a lot of pallets have been removed and some of them are not even loops but loop extenders (the ones behind houses) the only good windows that are left are the ones on the house that has the generator in the basement and can be ignored.
I've talked to some friends who play killer and most of them told me that they no longer have this map ''blacklisted'' as a strong survivor map as they have consistently won with 4k's even with slow killers...at this point complaining about this map is more of a ritual that some people still do (since it was pretty normal to complain about it like 2-3 years ago) instead of actually being an acceptable argument.
It's still one of those maps that's too big (oddly enough, it's one of the largest maps in the game, but it doesn't look it), and it might as well be named Screw Your Sightlines still.
Have the wrong killer and it'll take forever to get into what the game actually wants to consider a chase.
That, and the gen spawns are basically guaranteed to be spread out. It's still bad in a lot of ways.
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Don't DC, the penalty's just going to keep going up and you lose more time than if you just open the damn gate as soon as it's possible.
If you send me somewhere miserable and bad for whoever I'm playing and start tryharding, I'm just going to become a scenery feature. There, there's the win you're trying so hard for. Are super easy wins fun? Because you can have one.
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Doors that serve no purpose except to force the Killer to waste time on them.
The map designers should really stop placing doors that are basically predropped god pallets.
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@Huge_Bush said:
I suggest you use Spine Chill. Granted, it doesn't tell you what direction they're coming from, but it does alert you they're coming and gives you time to better position yourself. You just have to be alert the second it shines.
I honestly think Spine Chill is in the running for worst designed perk in the game because of the way status notifications work.
A progress-boosting perk that gets used as an information perk that pressures players into strafing everywhere like it's a DOOM speedrun is not a good bloody design.
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Sacrificial Ward
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2674123#Comment_2674123
Well, even good players are still human. The typical reaction time is 0.25 seconds for a person to physically react to something they see. Good reaction time is about 0.2 seconds. Assuming really skilled video game players have lightning reflexes, they're still probably delaying their reactions at least 0.15 to 0.2 seconds after the hit, which is 1-2 meter delay basically. So it's still not negligible.
If they only start after they see it and can't anticipate the hit, which would negate most of it for skilled players (especially if there's any timing generosity). Reaction delay would also apply to Pinhead and even worse, if we want to just rely on people reacting to the last possible visual cues, due to his totally stopping whilst doing things.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2674211#Comment_2674211
I also said they need to address survivor spawns. That’s another big problem.
Problem is, shrinking the maps will make it easier for survivors to split even if they spawn together. So, can't rule out some more fundamental mechanics shifts.
Gen kicking needs something by default, it's just dumb now (or the obvious "can't just one-tap it to revert regression" nonsense).
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@IronKnight55 said:
I don’t really have too much problems with gen speed, but I do think a few changes could be made
- Survivor spawns need to change. Sometimes survivors can all spawn on different gens. This obviously shouldn’t happen
- Make large maps smaller. These are all the changes that are needed in my opinion.
Making the maps smaller will only work if that necessarily forces more Survivors to budge their butts when a chase forcibly comes near them.
Smaller maps are a component of it, but they're not necessarily the entirety of the fix for "actually be able to pressure Survivors off gens and interrupt their objective".
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673974#Comment_2673974
I'm not assuming the survivor is standing still, I'm assuming that you fire the chain somewhat close to them, they keep running, and it hits them after traveling about 8 meters. And I included that time it takes the chain to travel that distance plus the time it takes to pan when I estimated 0.5 seconds that Pinhead is stationary.
You're right though that I didn't include the camera pan and FOV times which is significant. I'll redo the calculation with that in mind.
Start -
- Pinhead is chasing and maneuvers the gateway in position. His movement speed isn't impacted while moving the gateway so this doesn't need to be included here. (We're assuming they're far enough away that he doesn't just take a few steps and hit them.)
- Pinhead activates the gateway - 0.5 seconds for the camera pan plus 0.75 seconds for the FOV, total 1.25 seconds Pinhead is stationary. Survivor continues running 4 m/s, gains 5 meters distance
- Chain launches, distance maybe 2 meters from the survivor. It takes roughly 0.25 seconds for the chain to hit the survivor, who is now 6 meters further away from Pinhead
- Fade in time to get back to Pinhead is 0.25 seconds. Survivor has 3 chains on them and moves 0.3 meters, total distance is now 6.3 meters from Pinhead
- Pinhead now finally resumes the chase at 4.6 m/s. Survivor moves 1.1 m/s for an additional 0.75 seconds for 0.8m. Pinhead moves total 3.5 meters and has gained net of 2.7m. Distance gained by the survivor total is now 3.6 meters.
- Pinhead continues chasing with survivor having 2 chains for one second. Survivor gains 1.7 meters, Pinhead gains 4.6 meters, net gain for Pinhead is 2.9 meters. Total distance gained by the survivor is now 0.7 meters
- Pinhead continues chasing with survivor having 1 chains for one second. Survivor gains 2.3 meters, Pinhead 4.6, net gain for Pinhead is 2.3 meters, Pinhead is now ahead by 1.6 meters.
So yeah, that camera and FOV time really hurts him. (I didn't realize they were over 1 second total!)
For comparison, the entire process above takes 4.5 seconds. Without using his ability at all, and just catching up at 0.6 m/s, he could have closed a distance of 2.7 meters in that time, which is slightly more than the 1.6 above.
TLDR - the 1v1 chains do kind of suck. 🤷♂️ Oddly none of his add-ons actually increase the time it takes to break free of his chains, or cut down that camera and FOV time, so even using normal add-ons doesn't help. Arguably Fang is still his best add-on, then, since at least on a healthy survivor the chain injures them which is MUCH more powerful an effect than 2 or 3 chains on the survivor.
And yeah, the TL;DR thing really hammers in how dumb the addon selection is.
Like, the only non-purple/pink addons that were remotely handy got nerfed into the ground. Reduced cooldown between chains? Longer chain travel distance? Longer casting distance (situationally viable for box interrupting but like...)? Increased turn rate? It's like all his base addons were built around the idea of being this long-range figure whose skillshots at those ranges would mean something.
Rather than... literally anything that would buff the chains once they were latched on, or reduce the transitions, or... something.
The loading screen tips even tell you to get in close to use them effectively. Like, what?
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@dugman said:
P.S. In the above analysis I assumed the survivors instantly start breaking the chains the moment they're hit. It's probably worth noting, though, that if a survivor delays removing the chains by even 0.5 second to 1 second it makes a HUGE difference in the calculation. Every half a second the survivor delays taking off the chains is an additional 3.5 meters Pinhead catches up to them. And human reactions aren't instantaneous, so there is some degree of delay between being hit by a chain and clicking the button to remove it.
So in reality that 1.6 final figure above is a worst case number where the survivor instantly starts breaking with literally zero delay. Add even a 0.5 second delay and it jumps to 5 meters, twice as much as Pinhead would catch up without using the ability.
I think the sad fact of life is that if you're playing against someone who delays on breaking the chains at all, it's likely you won't be needing them anyway.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297864/pinhead-is-an-m1-killer-only
A few tricks:
- Chains can be weak indoors, but they are very solid in loops. Tag someone as they vault or drop a pallet and it'll often give you a free hit.
- Fang is still an ungodly strong addon, combine it with the lens or the nail.
- Chains are incredible for interrupting the box, and can lead to an easier chase to obtain it yourself.
- Chained hits (Euphoric Suffering) give oodles of BP, making him about on par with Doctor for BP farming.
Ceno definitely needs some love in his kit, but he's far from Clown or Pig tier.
Eh, the thing I keep finding is that I might as well not use it in loops once I've established I can land the hits and it's just as effective. Its actual impact in looping (and vaulting) scenarios seems really overestimated because survivors forget how long he spends caught in anims and barred from doing useful things like "break pallet". Just relying on M1 actually worked out better.
Interrupting the box just feels kneecapped without addons. 6s just isn't long enough without being close enough, and if I'm close enough to do that I'm usually close enough to... guess which button? That's right, chase and M1.
Well yeah, if I was using Engineer's Fang, I'd be M2'ing a bunch more to get those initial hits, but every time I touch that I wind up in The Game. It's like they're cursed. xD