Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650168#Comment_3650168
Hens made a video where he goes into detail about matchmaking, and he does talk a bit about the high end of MMR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhYciabFkLE&ab_channel=notHens
I agree about your points on factoring something other than escapes and kills. Killers are being told that they're only good if they get kills, which encourages tunneling. If MMR encouraged killers to be more of a nuisance and general terror, it might lead to healthier gameplay. Survivors making a self-sacrifice to get a 3-man out is also an important play, but they paradoxically get penalized for it.
I think there's a difference between the two.
Killer has been "4K or bust" for years now. Survivors have been altruistic since the start. Unfortunately, I think it's too late to change attitudes.
An MMR change to reflect hooks WOULD be good, objectively. It wouldn't decrease tunneling though.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650221#Comment_3650221
I wonder why people are not combining it since one of the strong points of DS is the ability to use Dead Hard again. I wonder as much as the players who bring self-care by itself without Botani.
Because perks that are dependent on the Killer's ping are bad.
Not only do you need skill to know the timing.
Not only do you need to make a read.
Not only do you need to be positioned correctly in a loop.
You also need the Killer to have good ping.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650125#Comment_3650125
Historically, most games have balanced around max potential/high skill and have done just fine. The reason for this is that the cheesy exploitable stuff isn’t useable by the average player. Joe newcomer isn’t chaining together tiles, so doing something like preventing certain spawns would mostly affect tryhards.
BHVR should be balancing out survivors more, while creating far better tutorials that actually teach people how to play their game.
High MMR Survivor is still sub-50%
Also, those games aren't asymm and they haven't shifted balancing philosophy 8 years in
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650112#Comment_3650112
I learned. I didn’t start the game knowing what I was doing, and it took many losses to get good. I don’t think asking a playerbase to learn a game they supposedly like is some huge thing. Balancing around bad players is a slap in the face to people who have played and supported BHVRs game.
It's called being smart.
You CANNOT balance this game around comp players. The game would be absolutely horrible for the casual player.
What you are doing is taking away the choice you had. You CHOSE to play and take this silly game competitively. So did I. Most people don't for a reason and we shouldn't force that choice on them
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649794#Comment_3649794
If Spirit was 115, she would be better than Blight. She has the stronger power. Her being 110 is what puts her below Blight.
I might’ve put a (theoretical) 110 Blight with his best addons above Spirit before, but not now.
Disagree.
Blight's power is easier and stronger. The 5% is not going to flip-flop them.
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@th3syst3m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649980#Comment_3649980
Well time to delete Nurse and Blight since they are no longer needed, oh wait I meant Skull Merchant and Onryo, too op.
Deleting SM? My dreams are a reality
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650068#Comment_3650068
They aren’t unusable, and they go with what I’ve been saying. Kill rates are inflated because the playerbase doesn’t know how to maximize game mechanics. What doesn’t matter in the hands of an average player can be broken in the hands of an experienced player (old dead hard, DS.) That’s why you balance around people who maximize/exploit game mechanics. Conveniently, BHVR only balances killer thet way, which is why Nurse has been nerfed 50 times, and countless other killers have been needlessly nerfed. If they balanced both sides around casual or competitive play, I wouldn’t have a problem.
That's all fine and good, but you can't piss off 99% of the playerbase just because us tryhard comp players don't like to scrim against each other.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650005#Comment_3650005
So the majority of killers are losing their matches, yikes lol. 3k is a win.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650029#Comment_3650029
75% is a killer win. I'd say them losing the majority of their matches on average would suck as a killer. 62.5% kill rate is the halfway mark between a 2k and a 3k (where 3k is a win ie halfway between 50% and 75%). That would put killers at winning half their matches.
No, the vast majority of Killers are killing more than two Survivors per match.
Survivors are escaping under 50%, meaning in the average game, not even two are getting out. Which means it's Hatch carrying once again. That is unequivocally a loss, both individually and team-wise.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649995#Comment_3649995
Those stats literally just came out. He was referencing stats from around the time of 6.1. Anyways, the current stats don’t mean much. The ceiling for high mmr is fairly low. I would bet most of the people on this forum are in it.
What a surprise, the stats are unusable because they show something that you don't like.
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@RipperX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650030#Comment_3650030
Well, BVHR think differently "We try to keep Killers near a 60% kill rate on average"
Which I think is extremely dumb because Hatch is, for all intents and purposes, keeping the Kill Rates lower.
If you get out through Hatch, you aren't winning. When you see a 40% ER, knock off a percentage for Hatch Escapes. It means ONE, that's right, ONE Survivor is on average escaping from the trial.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650018#Comment_3650018
...Not that I think a 4-man SWF is a huge balance problem or anything, but it's observable that people do give up and go next against Skull Merchant, and anecdotally, people on the forums here also seem to have some misconceptions about how her power works.
The same isn't observably true about killers giving up against a 4-man. Not knowing how to play against them, sure, that's probably reasonable, that part I don't disagree with.
I think a lot of Killers do give up and write matches off at the slightest hint of them having to really struggle.
Seems pretty obvious that Solo Q is just getting rolled and Duo and Trio isn't much better; so it wouldn't be unreasonable for a Killer to assume (and we know they do) that anything that causes them difficulty is due to 4-man SWF
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@RipperX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650005#Comment_3650005
Those persky awful sweaty 4-man SWF at high MMR are escaping 8% more than what it supposed to be, they are not suppose to escape HALF the time but they are very close to it
And SM is killing 3 people per match.
Survivors should escape 50% of the time, if you want balance.
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@KazRen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649998#Comment_3649998
I mean Skull Merchant is people giving up and some not knowing how to play against her. I'm not saying she is fun to vs just stating that she clearly has a high killrate from other means then just the killer being good.
Apply that same logic to the 4-man SWF then.
Maybe Killers just give up and don't know how to play against them.
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So, basically exactly what I've been saying.
39% escape rate and those pesky awful sweaty 4-man SWF's at high MMR aren't even escaping HALF the time.
Also, lmao, Skull Merchant.
Not a single Killer getting less than 2 Kills.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649991#Comment_3649991
58% is likely fine. This is an average against all killers, so some individual killers might be underperforming and need some buffs.
On the reverse some killers also might be overperforming and need some nerfs.
Skull Merchant with a 70% KR
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Who could've seen this coming.....
ALSO, LMAO, 39% ER is still accurate.
SWF only matters at high MMR, even Solo in high MMR is bad and the ER for 4-mans is still sub-50. The horrible awful so OP high mmr swf's aren't even escaping HALF the time
Also shows that SWF really doesn't matter unless it's all four.
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See, now that's actually a good question.
Blight is undoubtedly stronger and making Spirit 115% or Blight 110% wouldn't change that.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648388#Comment_3648388
Oh yeah I know which loops you are talking about, definitely wouldn't call them unsafe though. They are big enough in my experience. Unless you classify unsafe as mindgameable, which the majority of loops should be if you ask me.
I would say easily mindgameable is unsafe. Like, you can mindgame Shack, but that doesn't make shack unsafe.
Also, neither the rock loops nor the middle of the cornfield haybale loops are long enough to be safe. I could swing from one side to another.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649314#Comment_3649314
What? Basekit kicks take off 5% and survivors can no longer tap to stop that regression. How on earth is that unrewarding?
Base regression's low, sure, but I don't think it's necessary to raise it considering everything else they've done to improve killers' abilities to defend generators.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649322#Comment_3649322
There's definitely a point to be made about that skill check, but I don't think it's necessary to completely remove it, especially because it's basically the entire point of the perk. Just like remove the extra penalty or make it only stay there for 30 seconds and then buff the regression aspect of the perk to compensate.
@Topic:
Always felt like the nerfs to both especially Call of Brine were a little too harsh and felt like now would be the time to buff them a bit considering the generator changes, but I must say, we would have to be very careful about increasing their regression. They're still unearned regression that provide free extra value for nothing and could in theory be brutal when stacked together with some other kick perks.
I don't think having a perk that relies completely on RNG or new players to be effective is good design.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649319#Comment_3649319
Again, you can’t tell me my experience is wrong. It’s literally my opinion lol. I know how playing killer felt back then, and I know how it feels now. It’s a bad experience. Survivors have always been too strong, but it’s more obvious now that strong regression no longer exists.
Your opinion can be one thing.
The facts are another.
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Overcharge needs to lose the skill check and get a new effect
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649306#Comment_3649306
Killers were stronger back in 2018. Like yea, the weakest killers were all weaker than they are now, but there was actual power killers like Nurse and Spirit. Now every killer feels gimped, is loaded with cooldowns, and has mostly worthless addons. Modern dbd brought killers closer together, but weaker as a whole. The changes you listed were not helpful or impactful. Survivors still get too much distance after a hit.
I would trade the gen speed and tapping for old ruin and pop in a heartbeat.
Then you're a fool for trading all the progress we've made for nostalgia.
Nurse is still the strongest entity in the game by a mile. Blight isn't too far behind her, as demonstrated by the 2000 game Blight streak. Spirit, Xeno, Wesker, Chucky, Artist, Plague etc etc are all extremely strong Killers.
There's no more 5-blink or OmegaBlink Nurse, nor Prayer Bead Spirit and if that's what you're missing, frankly, too damn bad.
The changes listed dropped Escape Rates to under 40%. Sorry that you're rusty, but your assertions that Survivors are somehow more OP now is wrong. Redonsider your point of view.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649301#Comment_3649301
What basekit buffs? FOV I guess (although I think that should have been in day 1). But if you’re referencing the wipe animation or speed boost, there’s nothing else to say. Those changes did nothing and 9/10 a survivor is still making a tile.
FoV should've been standard, on that we agree, along with colorblind settings.
Less Survivor speed boost on hit.
Faster pallet break.
Two stacks of STBFL basekit.
Increase to gen times across the board.
No more gen tapping.
That's not even mentioning perk buffs and nerfs or Killer buffs. Like, self-healing is a shadow of what it once was. There's multiple extremely strong gen regression perks. A multitude of extremely strong Killers.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649273#Comment_3649273
What do you expect from someone that always complains on the forums
I try to give people a shot
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649165#Comment_3649165
Most of what you said isn’t even true. There is no perk variety because you have to run gen regression and/or information perks. There is no deviating if you want to win. Killer wipe speed is a laughable change that had no impact.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649282#Comment_3649282
Basekit borrowed time, off the record, and the off hook speed boost is every bit as powerful as old DS and deadhard. I would rather deal with that old BS instead of this garbage because, again, killer had stuff that was really powerful.
Hmmmm, no.
5 second DS into old DH is, in fact, MUCH better than basekit BT and a 7% speed boost for a short time. I'm not even mentioning OTR because it doesn't do ######### when the Killer tunnels or proxy's.
I enjoy that you ignore every basekit Killer buff, not to mention individual changes.
Honestly? I think you're rusty. Killer is easier than it's ever been, barring Eruption brainrot meta.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649273#Comment_3649273
You can’t say my experience isn’t true.
"Killer is in the worst state it has ever been"
This is factually and demonstrably wrong.
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Well, that's just not really true at all
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@canonjack001 said:
The fact that the game is balanced(2dead2alive) even with tunneling.
That means killer would lose(kill<=1) every game if they are not tunneling.
It's not balanced as a 2v2 what???
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648662#Comment_3648662
Ah yes. The Survivors have nothing to do but gens (Not healing, or unhooking, or opening chests or doing totems..) but the poor, mean Killer can always just play badly and not tunnel, even if it's the optimal play!
Just more 'The Killer is responsible for Survivor fun' while absolving Survivors of the reverse.
If you open chests or do dulls, you are throwing the match.
Unhooking and healing is directly related to the Killer.
Tunneling is ALWAYS the optimal play. That's what we'd like to change.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648668#Comment_3648668
Well... If we want to go that route, there are 12 hook stages and 5 generators. If we compare each of these 12 chases to generator progress, the killer has a huge time problem. Especially because a killer can only target one survivor to hit and down, while the 3 other survivors can spread, work on and finish multiple generator at the same time. This is why the early game is so important to go well for a killer. They can lose 3 gens very fast, if they cant down someone quickly.
If hook stages could regress, the killer would be faced with an even worse time problem, dont you think?
Because it's asymmetric, gens aren't all equal.
First gen can pop quickly while the last one takes years.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648710#Comment_3648710
Except that's not a thing and it's still a flawed equation.
Am I face-camping the gen as a survivor if I stand in front of it? Yeah, that's how dumb it sounds.
I mean, I definitely see this a lot.
People just refuse to give up on a gen.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648560#Comment_3648560
Oh my god, you're arguing semantics.
'Anyone' IS 'Anyone in the match' because the Killers don't EXIST outside the matches. 🤦♂️
Your entire argument is 'But aksually, if we use MY definitions, then tunneling gens is fake!'
Uh, yeah, because it's a subjective opinion. That's the whole point of an opinion.
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Feel like he's fine, barring his current bug.
He's a blast to play and has a high skill ceiling whilst not being incredibly demanding to pick up WHILE SIMULATENOUSLY having good counterplay! A+ design, tbh.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646119#Comment_3646119
Coldwind and Macmillan maps? Really? Can't think of many pallets that are unsafe on those maps personally.
Rock loops.
Middle of cornfield haybale pallets
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648044#Comment_3648044
SoloQ can very much be fun. You just need to change your mindset.
Winnig seems to be entirely how you have fun in dbd, so I don't think I can change your opinion there.
If I play soloq, I try to look at my own performance and try to play well. If I had fun while playing, the match is a win regardless of escape or sacrifice. That's just me though and I very much understand the struggle of soloq.
You can't really play with silly builds either, because you will be ID'd immediately and killed off.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648049#Comment_3648049
Alltough you are right and OP is exagerating this. I do have to say they butchered both his iridescents to the point they make you weaker then basekit. Nerfing an add on is one thing and killing it is another. C33 removing 60% of your power feom 5 to 2 rushes all for some minor turn rate and distance is literally a nerf from basekit.
Alc Ring is definitely not a nerf from basekit.
C33 I could see, but frankly, deserved.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648283#Comment_3648283
fair enough
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648285#Comment_3648285
sorry. reality does not comply with what you're saying. try again.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648289#Comment_3648289
nope. they weren't on gens. I would have negated healing time.
also, literal second thing I said 👇️
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646131#Comment_3646131
you all are making this so unnecessarily hard for some reason...
At this point, it feels like you realized you were wrong like two pages ago and are just sticking your head in the sand now.
Barring a language barrier, I don't know how you don't get it after having three separate people explain it to you.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648210#Comment_3648210
And this is why having one tier list is dangerous for the game.
No; S tier killers aren’t stronger than anything you can expect to encounter in public games, because the majority of players aren’t playing against killers that play at top 0.01% MMR S-tier level.
The strongest killers players can expect to encounter in public games, depends on their MMR level, as some killers are wildly stronger or weaker at different MMR levels.
That's assuming the system works well, which is doesn't.
Likewise, 2000 game Blight 4K streak says that, actually yes, certain Killers ARE stronger than anything you'll see in pubs.
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@TieBreaker said:
They said they are looking at it. We got no more info than that. It didn't sound like they had already decided to nerf his basekit, more that they might be considering it.
I assume they are going to see how strong he is now that they have completed his add-on pass. So they can decide whether basekit nerfs are warranted.
Which is wise, I think.
It's hard to tell Blight's basekit strength when his addons were so good
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@ctrlaltdefeat36 said:
It's not about "best" (which is subjective anyway). It's about utility. Do they have enough utility that people will actually bother to run them. And the answer in the Blight's case is no.
Still see plenty of people running them.
Weaker Killers should have stronger addons. Blight didn't need to have the best addon set in the game to be the 2nd best Killer.
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Extremely powerful Killers shouldn't have the best set of add-ons in the game, sorry.
He needed nerfs and has needed them for a long time.
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647807#Comment_3647807
The video obviously resonated with me I’d rather you go watch it then we can have our cute little discussion about it afterwards than waste my time typing more or less the same concept and spoon feeding it to you.
You asked for feedback but refuse to engage, curious.
I'd rather discuss it with you and not argue about a strawman.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647944#Comment_3647944
Surely an ad hominem is the best way to make your own point. 😂
The game is clearly Survivor-sided. I don't see a single hand-holding mechanic added for Killers. Yet every time Survivors complain; The devs add yet another basekit perk/mechanic to help Survivors or kneecap Killers.
There are times when it's unwarranted, but there are times when it is. If someone is named something like "AllKillersSuck69" they probably aren't gonna have reasonable takes.
Really? Show me some proof. Any Kill Rates? Perhaps some escape rates?
As for hand-holding, they literally just fixed gen tapping. They continue to buff gen perks whilst nerfing gen speeds for Survivors. They adjusted pallet logic, continue to push out more deadzones in maps that don't need them.
It's extremely obvious that you have a pretty bad bias here. You should try to play Solo Q some time, I can't really recommend it as a fun mode, but it will be eye-opening.
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Maybe.
It usually builds up too slowly for it to matter, in my experience.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647931#Comment_3647931
Survivors strawman because they don't want a balanced game.
They SWF with META perks and hand-held mechanics like BT basekit, anti-facecamp, and now this gen kicking BS to 'nerf 3 gens' (Which they put themselves in by being bad).
But the second a Killer speaks up about how broke SWF is; Survivors are quick to drown them out and shut them down. Because they fear true game balance.
But I don't know why I'm saying this; The mods have apparently shadow-banned me for being a Killer main, and my posts are not appearing to anyone but me. 🤷♂️
Surely, the player named "I Tunnel" can be trusted for an unbiased take.
So far as we know, the game is balanced and leaning towards Killer. Most SWF's simply aren't that much of a problem for the average player.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647889#Comment_3647889
have you tried applying basic physics?
Have you tried basic logic?
If you interrupt TWO PEOPLE, performing ONE action, you are wasting multiple people's time. This results in a net loss of double the time that would've been lost if a single person was performing said action.
I genuinely do not see what's so hard to grasp.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647234#Comment_3647234
no matter what, you can't negate more time than the time that passed.
it does not matter how many people you interrupt. if you interrupt an action that takes 10 seconds, you negated up to 10 seconds. you didn't negate 30 seconds because there was 3 people there.
you interrupt a heal, you negate however much time was invested in that heal. and that is it. (obviously same applies if a perk removes 30% of a gen or something)
which is different from optimizing the time you spend, because two+ people can take different actions at the same time. and proper action economy always wins.
and anything like "but it means they have to heal later and that means I negated double the time", it doesn't and no they don't. If we bothered with this we would be just creating a scenario in our head which will fit anything either of us want. it's meaningless.
like "you stop the heal, oh look the last gen got fixed and they had adrenaline" or "they just loop you until the gate is opened and leave". we can go back and forth, it's endless, it's useless.
This did not help. Feels like rambling.
Your logic doesn't really make any sense.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
How often do killers actually instantly hit off hook to negate the benefits of OTR since I keep hearing this argument brought up?
Not necessarily agreeing with OP, but I just don't feel like this is something that should be happening very often since the killer basically has to be directly face camping in order to do that, which people aren't going to do with the AFC mechanic. I guess I could see them doing it after getting hit by OTR the first time, but randomly hitting unhooked survivors when you're not even sure if they have OTR or not is just a bad move IMO.
When they've decided they're gonna tunnel, fairly often.