Pulsar
Pulsar
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@jasonq500 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900543#Comment_3900543
she's very much different killer like way too different, once a trap based killer into pretty much a dash type ability, which takes away all of my hours in why I love playing skull merchant
To me it sounds like I'm playing as pinhead with engineers fang addon which to me that type of killer isn't for me and do not want that type of gameplay of my favorite killer
The removal of clawtraps lock on stacks I do not like soley from how useless her radar will be especially with the changes to her detection range, and her lock on stacks had a fun niche which is her double tap, very difficult but feels so good to pull off, very disappointed that it was removed
Only good changes were the removal of haste and hinder from her kit, though I would like if she had a different effect to hinder (no pun intended) survivors in some other way that isn't annoying deal with
That's pretty much all my details why Don't like the skull merchant changes, hope this helps
Would you prefer her to retain her current identity and remain non-viable and hated or would you rather attempt to shift her identity to appeal to more players, whilst also increasing her viability and (possibly) lessening the hatred towards her?
Genuine question with no ill will behind it.
As someone who used to main Legion, I know what my own answer was in a similar situation.
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@Caiman said:
If she is to have Undetectable in her kit, maybe it should be during the Global Detection, to play up her theme as a meticulous hunter that tracks her targets and attacks when they least expect her. Similar to Dredge's Nightfall but with more tracking and less darkness.
Not a bad idea!
I worry that Haste and Undetectable is too much, but alone they feel a little weaker than I'd like.
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It seems like a good start to me.
Making the Killer more skill expressive and more viable is good.
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@syain said:
Just to preface this - I've been doing 'sort of' a play who you vs for about 6,500h now. It has become my playstyle and I find it incredibly fun. Below, you can see the playtime I have in total as of writing this post.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0ZJBFKXONJMD/image.png
The last survivor match I played, I went against an addonless Legion with mostly gen control perks, which you can also see below:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X3FZ1MJJN45S/image.png
Now my question is: If I'm an addonless Legion, what am I supposed to do after injuring them given that they have a pallet on every corner of the map? How am I supposed to make use of my build if all they have to do is predrop pallets until the generators are done, because there they CAN afford to do that?
Why doesn't The Game get an actual rework that, despite removing some pallets, adds some windows instead? The map right now is basically unplayable for M1 killers and I'm tempted to just swallow the penalty every time I get it.Not that it helps with someone like Trapper, but The Game is probably one of the only maps where you can get consistent Frenzy downs due to the small size.
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@paranoidmad80 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899645#Comment_3899645
Ok, thank you very much. I will buy the Trickser then. 🙂
Ultimately, it is up to your preference.
Both Killers are very different from each other and support unique playstyles. At the very least with Trickster, even if you hate him, you'll still get some good perks.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899678#Comment_3899678
I mean, you can read the above reply to Ryuhi where I specifically mentioned I wasn't referring to him or anyone else he mentioned, which in this context is literally just you. I was complaining about X and a couple specific people on here who are now banned after our encounters, since FNAF doesn't tend to gets brought up more than twice a month here. Admittedly I haven't been very active on these forums for the forums the past few months. It's what the 'Fnaf supporters don't support human rights' comment was about, as I have actually had someone find my email and spam me messages with that statement.
People who take it so far as to email you on, what I assume, is a personal account are crazy, full stop end of story.
While I am extremely critical of FNAF (and of those who do not grasp the reservations I and many others have), I ultimately will respect other people's choice, as it is THEIR choice, not mine.
Personal harassment is several bridges too far and is never acceptable behavior.
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@ArkInk said:
I feel the Doomposting around this chapter specifically is coming from people who are already salty FNAF is being added and want a reason to think it's going to go poorly.
We get years long fan requests added constantly, from RE to Alien to Chucky to Dracula, people have found a reason to be hyped or disappointed by anyone being added, with execution actually seeming to matter the most. Sure, there will be people who hate no matter what, but I certainly didn't see anyone pinning Alien as a flop because of fan expectations, it was almost all based around legitimate complaints in design.
Yes, there's definitely a chance the devs mess up the power like Xeno and the killer becomes extremely unpopular, but I don't see much of a reason to assume that before we've even seen it. Even a controversial killer like Nemesis still has a lot of fans. I have faith we'll get something good from Springtrap, especially since he doesn't fall into regular killer pitfalls like 'dash ability.'
I feel the Doomposting around this chapter specifically is coming from people who are already salty FNAF is being added and want a reason to think it's going to go poorly.
Wonder who that could be.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899594#Comment_3899594
Trust me daniel san, John Tokyo is way better than Engineers Feng Pinhead; to prove it, I'll say something controversial yet brave; even pre nerf Engineers Feng was overrated
Kaneki has the mobility to bodyblock a la Wraith/Legion, which immediately puts Kaneki leaps and bounds above that Pinhead.
He also seems to have decent map control, not as good as a good Pinhead player, but still better than average with his traversal.
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Any map could be a good addition.
The question is whether we will be receiving Modern Haddonfield 2.0 or Garden of Joy 2.0
Almost ten years in and maps are still kinda cheeks for everyone.
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@paranoidmad80 said:
Is it worth buying the Trickster and the Skull Merchant? I don't have these two killers yet. I bought all the survivors first. Or should I wait and see? But that might take a while, right? I haven't been at it that long.
Trickster has some decent perks.
No Way Out is a good perk.
Crowd Control is feast or famine but can win you games.
Starstruck is just fun.
You probably won't get to play as SM, and her perks are all kinda bad to meh; so I can't recommend her.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899015#Comment_3899015
It would be the same kind of disappointed as when Skull Merchant turned out to not be a killer cyborg like the tools of torment chapter teaser led people to believe.
I even moreso imagine people would have been more disappointed over Doomed Course if it had any pre-ptb teasers, especially seeing the mixed reaction to Houndmaster herself.
Personally however, ATW is the biggest let down for me.
Indeed.
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@Smoe said:
I fully expect the chapter to not live up to the hype and will cause people to be disappointed over the final product.
Most likely, yes.
I am sure that will go well, especially considering the brigading done here when the Hellraiser teaser wasn't FNAF. Can only imagine what could happen if people are disappointed by the adaptation if they freaked out over a teaser trailer not being what they wanted.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897940#Comment_3897940
The counter is pressing D on your keyboard since it breaks the dog in half because his coding runs on the electric signals generated by the heartbeats of an actual dog.
No idea if this is accurate but the description you gave is far too humorous for it not to be.
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@Hex_Excommunicated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897369#Comment_3897369
Xeno is getting nerfed? Why?
Some of it's fine, making the Tail more reactable is good, nobody should like a Killer with an unreactable attack. Making him have more resistance to heat is good.
Making him take 15x longer to dissipate heat is….not good. The logic is…questionable.
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Xeno nerf was…idk what they were thinking.
SM at least had a 70% KR, so there's SOME basis there, no matter what side of that debate you fall on.
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I'd prefer less of a DBD 2 and more of a DBD remake that just recodes the game.
It's pretty obvious that the game wasn't mean to live this long (what game is) and it is clearly giving them issues. Performance, optimization and it certainly limits their creativity.
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Maybe they can make it available on Console's too.
Maybe some controller settings, pretty please?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895560#Comment_3895560
Fair enough, i would change my statement to be:
Every killer should be viable in the top 30% of games, in that, every game should be winnable assuming all players in the match are equal skill.In terms of low skill play, there can be things done to make those harder to play killers more approachable without making them stronger. For example in the case of nurse you have things like that addon that shows where you blink. Perhaps a way to make that basekit, or even toggleable in the settings. That would help lower skill players but not really high skill players who have already memorized how she blinks.
I do think approachability is a big issue in DBD.
There's so much to learn and you really don't get told any of it
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895283#Comment_3895283
Not that I disagree with your point but as far as I know this killer can't use their power to down anyone. So he is more like a better version of Legion, isn't he?
I don't think that's anywhere near S-tier even considering the crazy mobility. He is still mostly a pure M1 killer against an injured survivor (unless there are some exploits that allow him to use his power for that as well?), he doesn't deal that great with windows because the vaulting is so slow and for pallets it's the same thing.
I also do not think he's S-tier, but he seems fun, which I value higher. I just wish you could grab things vertically. Like, cling to the side of Shack or main building or something.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895283#Comment_3895283
Its not that "you should always win regardless of skill level" the point is that each killer should be viable at all levels.
That's never been true.
Nurse isn't viable at low skill levels, for example.
I would rather a Killer be fun and enjoyable to play than be S-tier.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
Killers should be strong enough to contest any match regardless of the ability of their opponents. If they don't have those tools, What is this game?
It becomes a game where the killers are tuned into tiers for survivor challenge levels and individual players are drafted to run the killers for the skill progression of the survivor player.
Doesn't sound like a good job, especially in light of the wage paid.
A chaotic system is more fun. If he's massive OP, leave it for a time, see what fun there is to be had.
I imagine you would not feel the same if the situation were reversed… "Survivors should be able to win any match regardless of the skill of their opponent, a chaotic system is more fun, if a new Survivor perk is massively OP, leave it for a while so they can have fun at others expense"
Killers do not need to all be S-tier Nurse level. Variety is the spice of life, after all, and a bunch of overpowered Killers doesn't sound too fun to play against.
What you will actually find is that strength matters far less than how fun they are to play. For example, Legion isn't very strong, but he's a blast to play.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895140#Comment_3895140
I have yet to see console Oni main…
Now everyone is out of luck, what exactly improved here?
"I didn't see it, so it must not exist"
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@CruelLimits1982 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893316#Comment_3893316
If you're burnt out play something else no one is holding you hostage and if you think "being found first and going down because you made a bad decision" is frustrating maybe stop playing the game all together and play a singleplayer game where you can load from the last checkpoint like skyrim when you make a bad choice.
People are often not tired of the genre, but tired of DBD's take on it.
The issue is that there is no alternative, and there will likely be no alternatives.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893710#Comment_3893710
Looks like we're getting the best of both worlds after all.
It is a good first step, I hope they keep up the good work.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895059#Comment_3895059
I would get behind it, if they actually changed something else for him along with it. But they didn't…
He is just worse and less fun for Oni mains, because those could use flick. Players who already didn't play Oni are not going to play him anyway.Except, Oni mains couldn't enjoy that.
PC Oni mains could, but everyone else was out of luck.
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If a Killer is only good because of a "tech" that only a minority of players are able to do, then that should be changed.
Having PC exclusive features is dumb.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893398#Comment_3893398
That's were you're wrong. Before the DC penalty it wasn't uncommon to have survivors DC the moment they hit the ground. The DC penalty came about because it was a major issue. Then survivors would attempt three times on hook and not struggle for an insta death. Then they had to miss two skill checks to die. Now, Now it's a problem because other survivors have an opportunity to save. Now it's an issue because now you have to afk at the hook or run to the killer. It is only a problem now because it's not instant.
You sure are making a lot of excuses for inexcusable behavior. I realize reading these threads that those that excuse the behavior ignore what is presented in the OP for hypotheticals tailored to their position. If the survivor got to the point to kill themselves on first hook then they shouldn't be queing up. You ask for empathy while denying the feelings of the four others trying to play the game. Somehow it's more virtuous to quit over some preconceived notion of unfairness instead of at the very least verifying if things will play out negatively.
So you are saying the DC penalty has done nothing but shift the mechanism of how people leave trials? I'd agree with that.
I ask for empathy for the player because I understand that this is fundamentally, a design issue. Yeah, some people are just asses. Most people aren't and just wanna have fun on their favorite game. Yet, if this issue is as widespread as I am being told, everyone is DC'ing or suiciding. That tells me that there is a deeper root cause, which I believe to be that DBD does not know what it wants to be.
It is trying to both please the comp crowd and the casual party crowd and is pleasing neither, imo. Some balancing is super competitive, other balancing is not
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Modern DBD players would NOT have survived 2017 or 2018 DBD. People knew what they were doing AND busted stuff was still around.
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Maybe when I was first playing but it faded for me after a while.
Just about mindset for me, personally. Once I figured out I could set the tone of the match just as much as Survivors could, it faded away pretty fast.
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Thought they just adjusted some of Nemesis' addons?
PH, Freddy, HM, Demo etc etc could all use work. Probably DS too
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893710#Comment_3893710
Bots were removed entirely after a week.
Thought they were testing stuff.
Like, two bots and no bonuses. One bot and a 300% bonus. No bots and 400% etc etc
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893704#Comment_3893704
I don't know. I don't work there. They seemed pretty adamant on adding bots to 2v8 and they ended up backtracking on that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893705#Comment_3893705
You've gone from "Survivors need more BP in general" to "BP bonuses don't help at all".
Besides, there are a whole set of changes on the roadmap aimed at making Survivor gameplay better. They're helping with the three biggest complaints Survivors have in a short timespan.
Except, they kept bots in 2v8, did they not?
Yeah, Survivors need more BP in general, a conditional bonus does not address that. That is a band-aid fix. Score Events should be increased across the board. Selfless actions should be more incentivized.
We know BHVR's track record, we will see if they actually fix things.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893563#Comment_3893563
You're also forgetting that there are a bunch of points in the roadmap aimed at addressing common issues with Survivor gameplay.
Even if Camping, Tunnelling and Slugging were magically fixed overnight, people would still go next. With such a large playerbase, you can never make anyone happy all the time, and some people are just inclined to ragequit if the match isn't entirely in their favor. This problem exists to some scale regardless of the issues the game has.
Either way, people tend to follow the path of least resistance. The fact that there's an easy way to circumvent the DC penalty will mean people are inclined to take it if they're annoyed. However, in the case of just straight up going AFK and waiting for the killer to hook you and then for you to die, that takes a BUNCH of time. It's not convenient, it's likely more annoying than whatever's going on in your match.
A big part of live service games is, essentially, playing wac-a-mole with issues too. It's a lot of weighing up whether a problem is big enough to require "wacking", and in this case, it is. We can't know for certain if there'll be another way players will start quitting matches, but there's a very good chance that it'll be far less effective than what we have currently.
There is no way to completely guarantee that people will stay in matches. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take incentives to discourage behaviour like this.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893316#Comment_3893316
Also, to address the part in this post about rewards for Survivors, an overlooked part of the blogpost is pretty important to note:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SBHTIB4SOS0M/image.png
This is not just a uniquely punishing system, you will get rewards for actually sticking around in matches that are a bit rough. I hope the numbers on the bonuses aren't too conservative, but we'll have to see.
That system does nothing to make matches more playable. Oh, boy, a BP bonus on my next match. That doesn't help at all with the current miserable match, which is what they need to fix.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893683#Comment_3893683
I don't think the game will die as a result of this.
At the very worst case scenario, there'll be a very dramatic drop in playercount, the devs will freak, turn the system off, and put far more resources into fixing whatever is wrong with Survivor gameplay, since that would indicate that it is genuinely unbearable for a lot of people.
This'll either have not really all that much of an effect on the playercount, or it'll shift the dev's priorities.
Or they'll double-down like they've done in the past and refuse to scrap it.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893316#Comment_3893316
"Yes, there are some people that will DC for nothing, but they are the VAST minority."
Hard disagree here. The overwhelming majority of DCs I see are in the first 120 seconds of a match. The overwhelming majority of the ######### on hook I see are on one of, if not the first overall hook of the game.
People are going into matches expecting to get pissed off and looking for the first excuse to bail.
Yes, there are things wrong with the game. Lots of things. Yes, the solo queue play loop is often miserable, repetitive, and with seemingly no hope of getting substantially better. But we all know that going in to each play session. Especially the burned out vets. We know almost every possible thing that can happen, and we know it almost certainly will. We read the updates, and we know when something has changed, and more importantly when it hasn't.
Knowing full well what's gonna happen and then repeatedly quitting in a huff when it does seems absurd, no? Because it is.
But as others have said, if you go down the path of justifying going next when something (or anything, really) frustrating or unfair happens, there's no end. The most common complaints (like tunneling) can't be fixed. Not really. And much beyond that, the list of grievances people have are so numerous and subjective that saying they need to be addressed before punishing going next is just arguing in bad faith. There will be no end to it as people will quit over almost anything. That's simply a non-starter.
Not "going next" anytime you're faced with bad game design isn't accepting the bad design. It's being respectful to your teammates and opponents. What sends the message to BHVR that you're accepting the state of the game is continuing to play the game at all. Money, or rather lack of it, motivates.
If people are burned out and sick of the crap, that's totally valid. But just step away from the game altogether for a while. Watch the updates for changes what you want and come back if you see them. Or quit forever, if you can manage it. I know when I get to the point of exasperation with the BS, I don't go next just to repeat the cycle, I take a break. One day I will have had enough of the game's BS and the break will be permanent.
But people just doing the same thing over and over at the expense of their fellow players is just asinine.
Going next is out of control and we need to punish people who go next habitually. That's not the same as saying BHVR doesn't need to improve things, just that we shouldn't be having our games ruined in the interim.
If those people are the overwhelming majority, the game will die with increased DC penalties and no hook suicides.
I do not think that is the case, but time will tell, I suppose.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893398#Comment_3893398
I don't think I can really be wrong on that can I? I'm talking about my own and other people's opinions and perspectives.
I hold myself to a standard where I try to my best to support my team and win, no matter what, I endeavour to not throw my team under the bus by quitting, no matter how mad I get at whatever the killer is doing or playing.
A player who does quit, knows they are throwing their team under the bus, but they put their own anger and frustration first.
I'm not their boss or their parents, I can't tell them what to do, however when I hold that standard of myself, I believe that gives me a right to condemn a player who doesn't. I'm also not arrogant enough to think my condemnation matters. Even if these players who quit were made aware of the fact I look down on them and consider them selfish for leaving, they are well within their rights to tell me to go dip my head in a bucket.
The thing is, I'm not alone in my opinion. I do not tolerate leavers because I do not allow myself to leave and condemn the game for my survivor teammates, and there are a lot of players who believe the same thing. If you are likely to tilt and quit, you shouldn't be playing. Stop ruining it for everyone else.
If you want to be a leaver apologist, fine, you're entitled to be. I was pointing out why myself and people like me disagree and push back against you. They are not entitled to my sympathy, as I said, I'm playing the same game they are, so there is no excuse, especially when they are willing to throw me under the bus with their actions.
To my mind, there is no excuse to quit at the start of the game, and doing so makes that player a hypocrite, because whatever thing pissed them off to make them want to quit, they are willing doing the exact same thing to other players themselves.
That is my point of view, and the point of view of many players across all of gaming and sports. The game isn't over until it's over, and anyone who quits is almost never someone to be admired, supported or made excuses for. In pretty much every gaming circle, they tend to be shunned.
Let's try it your way then, despite the fact we've been doing it your way since DC penalties got added. Let's double-down on punishing players.
Where does it stop? At what point do you say, yeah, maybe we should address underlying causes. How long are you willing to chase this idea for? Clearly, suicides are going to get removed. The next logical step for people is to either run to the Killer or to stop trying. How do you intend to police that?
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893515#Comment_3893515
That’s because people can leave with no timeout penalty. If quitters got a penalty no matter whether they DC or suicide, you don’t think that would discourage going next, by whatever means?If people who rage quit have to sit out, how is that not better for the people that actually want to play the game? Literally every multiplayer game has DC/matchmaking penalties. What would the alternative even look like for DBD?
No.
What you would end up doing is playing wac-a-mole with issues. People DC? DC penalties. People suicide on hook instead. Okay, well, let's remove the 4%, now they can't do that anymore. Now people are AFK'ing. Okay, well, let's ban them for that as well, easy enough. Now they are running into the Killer. Well, let's ban them for that too, oops, now we are starting to just ban newer players who don't know better yet.
When you keep addressing symptoms, without addressing the root cause, you just end up hurting innocent players without actually changing anything.
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893447#Comment_3893447
IMO, more people suiciding than DC'ing is evidence that the timeouts do work, otherwise people would just DC. The reason they suicide is to avoid the timeout.
It is evidence that timeouts do not change people's opinion on leaving the match.
Currently, DC penalties are really just preventing bots from taking over, at this point.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893392#Comment_3893392
I'm all for doing the usual balance changes and such. The line IM drawing is ppl who insist BHVR needs to just fix all the frustrating things first before implementing a time out. The list of frustrations are ENDLESS. You can ALWAYS find stuff that you find frustrating no matter how much gets tweaked.
In this particular case, this meg NEEDS a timeout. Her immediately getting to go to another match is NOT a good thing if she's SO frustrated that she's doing this. If she's not adult enough to manage her own stress levels properly to give herself a cooldown period, it's not fair to just expect the ppl in her next match to deal with it.
After watching this clip, I actually decided to play a game as Demo cuz it's been awhile. I got absolutely demolished and I felt pretty frustrated. That's fairly normal. Depending on how bad it is will determine if I queue up again or do something else for awhile. I decided to give DBD a break and watched an anime, then played some warframe. Maybe tonight I'll hop on DBD again. I see the timeout function as essentially for ppl who for some reason CANT manage their stress lvl enough to do what I did and take a break.
We have a timeout. We have had a time out for years.
If timeouts worked, we would've seen a reduction in DC'ing. We did not, it all pivoted to suicides. We will just continue to play wac-a-mole with trying to force people to play the game.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893335#Comment_3893335
If people are finding the game unfun, they shouldn't play. I'm playing this game way less because I don't find it super fun anymore, I'm not going in and ruining people's matches from the get go. If I get frustrated at the game, I stop playing instead of trying to pick and choose my matches like this.
This doesn't mean they shouldn't work to address these issues, but you can, in fact, treat a symptom before the cause, especially if the cause is pretty complicated and multi-faceted.
I don't play anymore either, but I still care about the game.
Giving up DBD means giving up the asymm horror genre as a whole. There aren't any competitors, there are no alternatives. If I get burnt out on OW, I can go play Marvel Rivals. Burnt out of Warzone? I can play Apex. Not feeling ARMA? Let's try Squad.
People keep bashing their heads against the wall because they like the idea and concept of DBD but have nowhere else to turn when DBD gets bad.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893335#Comment_3893335
I think the reason a lot of people (such as loud mouths like me) do lack that empathy is we're all playing the same game too...
These players are all facing the same annoying things as everyone else, we all on both sides have to eat our share of annoying games... By quitting like this, these players are increasing the pool of annoyimg games for everyone else too. They're taking a pretty firm position of "screw everyone else, I'm out". There is no real other way to interpret it.
You don't get to pick and choose when to apply a principle. You're either pro leaver, or anti leaver. Yes, we understand burnout and frustration are factors to empathise with... but there are other players in the game. I have myself gotten a game I'd rather get out of, usually as a result of dire teammates, but I still suck it up and do my best for the other players in my team as useless as they can be... that's what it means to have integrity, and a player who doesn't demonstrate that integrity is right to be called out on it.
I myself have had bad days on DBD where I've been repeatedly screwed over and gotten upset and frustrated... I will even admit there have been occasions where I've even quit, but it is extremely rare, and the times I have quit have been the result of my teammates doing something inexcusable bad to screw me over... and my justification in those moments have been "well, you screwed me, so screw you". That isn't great, but it's understandable and is an extreme outlier.
Losing a chase early and instant quitting is inexcusable, no matter how burned out and frustrated you are, cause you basically pass that burnout and frustration into everyone else and amplify the problem for all...
I think that's why I tend push back hard on this point of yours. If a player knows they're ruining games for other players, why continue to play, unless they just don't care?
No. You are just wrong on that.
Simplifying it down to "if you leave, you're a selfish ######### and if you stay you are a good person" is a joke and lets BHVR off the hook for continuing to push unfun mechanics.
DC'ing and hook suiciding wasn't this bad even PRIOR to the DC penalty. That tells me something has changed between then and now.
We should TRY to make matches worth playing. We should TRY to encourage BHVR to actually innovate and change DBD's gameplay loop (which has remained the same since EGC SIX YEARS AGO). We should REWARD players who stick it out by giving them BP/Shards. We should TRY to reduce burnout. We should TRY to encourage BHVR to make Killer designs that don't suck to play against.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893335#Comment_3893335
There will ALWAYS be things that frustrate you. It's not possible to prevent that because as long as you're playing a PVP game, there will be a high likelihood you will lose any given match. What's not FAIR is giving someone a pass because the game previous they had a map they didn't like or a killer they didn't like, ect.
Are you telling me this Meg isn't frustrated anymore? The fact she is dodging the DC penalty like this tells me she's planning on IMMEDIATELY queuing up again. Why is it a good thing to let a person queue up again when they do THIS in a completely fair game?
There will always be things that frustrate players, yes. That isn't an excuse to not try to fix things.
I've no idea what Meg thinks. Maybe this was her first match, maybe it was her tenth. Maybe she's just a selfish ######### like you think, or maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
When DBD works, it really works, and I think that's what draws us all to the game. There isn't another game that has a gameplay loop like DBD does. The issue is that DBD rarely works that way, in reality. Players will chase that perfect game because it's absurdly fun. That, and the lack of a real alternative game, is what keeps people playing to this point.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893316#Comment_3893316
Fortunately BHVR is working on addressing the burnout of those survivors. Now they have time to cool off before going into their next match and ruining the game for 4 ppl who had nothing to do with the reason they're frustrated. If your frustrated from a previous match so much that you'll instantly give up like the meg in the video, you NEED a cooldown period.
If you lack so much empathy that you can't understand how multiple matches like what I described is a HUGE issue with game design and negatively impact players, perhaps it's you who needs a break. Instead, you'd rather punish players for a BHVR issue.
Can't break it down more simply than this:
What you see in the video is a SYMPTOM of repeated poor design. Blaming people for being frustrated when mechanics are intentionally frustrating is ludicrous. Blaming them after years of feedback was given on how frustrating/annoying/unfun/etc etc a mechanic and/or a Killer is; well, it's downright unfair.
People have given feedback that tunneling is an issue for years. Same with proxy'ing, same with slugging. All of those have been functionally ignored until now. People have been giving feedback that the new maps are atrocious and that map reworks just make things worse. Ignored. People have been lamenting the design of newer Killers being, by and large, unpleasant for Survivors to face. That's been largely ignored.
When you ignore feedback from the majority of your player-base, consistently, I don't think you get to act shocked when people get fed up with the exact things they've been giving you feedback about.
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What other posters here do not seem to account for is that this is likely not the first strike in these players' minds.
Yes, there are some people that will DC for nothing, but they are the VAST minority. Most people hop on to try to play some DBD and are met with frustrating match after frustrating match.
That causes burnout over time. Matches where you feel it was unfair or got tunneled or got camped or got slugged AND you don't get anything more than a paltry smattering of points for your efforts in being a good sport and playing them out, well, those matches add up until you eventually get something like this. All we see is someone raging after being downed, but that's all WE can see, not all that they've experienced.
A good start is addressing some problematic mechanics, true. I think they need to look at rewards for Survivors as well and scrap the MMR system entirely. Survivors get such low BP in general, which is a real kick-while-your-down when you just endured a whole bunch of miserable matches. Imo, BP cap should go, and max BP should be 64K for a perfect match. BP boosting offerings should be more common, BPS shouldn't be rarer than Syringes.
As for MMR, they either need to commit to the game being "competitive" and show us MMR or scrap it entirely and go back to an Emblem-esque system.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892904#Comment_3892904
A good Nemesis player will obviously kill their zombies to get tiers in their power. Yeah, sure a Nemesis gives a speed boost to the survivor (if they're not bringing the hindering add-on) sure. A Nemesis wind up is much easier to maintain, even if the Nemesis is pulling it up around the corner. It's more accessible to use than a Xenomorph's tail attack which is wonky.
Additionally, a Nemesis like I said - can destroy a pallet without any add-ons or perks - whereas a Xenomorph can do nothing when a survivor is doing counterplay at a pallet unless they run Dissolution (which is an awful alternative for Xeno).
The high walls is also a point for contention with Nemesis, unless the survivor is crouching under a pallet or window - but again, the same thing can be said about Xenomorph.
Yes, from doing the math Nemesis has a 0.5 wind up versus Xeno's now 0.35 seconds, but these are marginal differences when one is superior in terms of deleting pallets and the other is perk dependent.
Unsure if they changed it, but Zombies do not give much Mutation Charge.
Nemesis can hold his Tentacle, true but that isn't what you pointed out originally. Likewise, Xeno's nerf to his Tail is only .15, which as you said is marginal.
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Basically straight-up across the board buffs in exchange for Deep Wound being less threatening.
DW had basically zero threat anyways, sooooooo
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892848#Comment_3892848
If it's a typo, then it's a typo. Until we confirm otherwise, then we need to treat it like these are the actual changes that are going forward.
I think there is more evidence to suggest it's not a typo than there is. The amount of resistance the Xeno will have to flamer turrets will be stronger basekit than it is currently with the Emergency Helmet.
I don't think there's any way they give it that much resistance to being burned out of its power unless they really do intend to go through with the numbers as we currently see them.
I mean, having it be like 1.5 second delay and 20/s instead of 2/s for dissipation seems a lot more reasonable.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892779#Comment_3892779
Xenomorph is by far worse than Nemesis.
Nemesis can outright eat through pallets, there's not much of a wind up problem with Nemesis (they're increasing Xeno's), not only the inclusion of how long it takes to wind up (survivors have more of a reaction time to crouch to counter the tail attack from Xeno).
I don't see anything that Xeno has other than map mobility, sure. Exiting a tunnel is nice, killer instinct range is okay (that's whatever), missed attack is fine, but what else is there for Xenomorph? These changes are a net nerf to the poor fella.
Nemesis can eat through pallets after he gives Survivors at least two speed boosts. Nemesis' wind-up time, pretty sure it's longer than Xeno's even AFTER this change.
Map mobility and ability to counter higher walled loops by dragging the tail over. Also that he doesn't give people a free speed boost.
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The other changes are good, but I am genuinely not convinced that the flame turret changes aren't a typo due to how ridiculous they are. Maybe they missed a decimal somewhere.
1.5s for delay and 20/s for dissipation rate seem better?
[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892798#Comment_3892798
If those same creatures beeline towards the yellow paint with WoO, then I believe my teamates can go towards the white aura that also has massive blue scanlines.
You would be surprised, since they seem to have trouble going towards a hooked teammate or a glowing Box