Pulsar
Pulsar
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Considering that I am in the same age range, albeit slightly younger, I would say Outlast or Amnesia.
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A 4 second stun is basically useless against Killers with any mobility.
OTR gets hard counteree by…oh yeah, tunneling some off of hook. Hit them when they have basekit BT? No more OTR OR DH.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887154#Comment_3887154
Pulsar's comments basically always mirror that of ScottJund/OhTofu. Meaning they're extremely pro-survivor but come from someone that plays 90% killer. Since it appeals to the broader population of the game while being from someone on the other side, they get a lot of upvotes
Meh.
I try to see things from a more balanced perspective and I try to not let my biases rule.
I say it how I see it.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886309#Comment_3886309
Do you bot your comments or something? I know, it sounds like a petty accusation, but I'm genuinely curious what you think. It just feels like no matter how far down your comment is, there's always ~10 likes. Maybe I'm looking too far into it.
I have no idea, honestly.
Maybe people see the 21K posts and pity upvote
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886615#Comment_3886615
it doesn't really matter if its played against other comp players, and im not taking average 500 hour Andys into the equation here.
the point is that you said tunneling/camping isn't effective, which is false, because if it weren't then the very best players in the world wouldn't be doing it.
in fact, its not even against other comp players do they do it. survivor meta is so busted right now to the point where if you go against a good 4 man, the things they can bring is so insanely strong that even those players must tunnel or play "dirty"Actually, I said tunneling doesn't often let you beat teams significantly better than you.
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They need to get it right and BHVR has shown that if they dedicate time to something, and it turns out terrible like the Twins rework, they will just dump it.
Nobody can afford that happening here, so they need to get it right and I think people here know that.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886322#Comment_3886322
it does help against good players, you need to actually know when to tunnel though. youre thinking of brainless tunneling. if it didnt help you win against good players then it wouldnt happen in nearly every competitive game
also if we get a new gen perk itll probably be nerfed within a year lol
Comp games have rules in place to make the game fairer. They also are, you know, played against other comp players.
If the average Killer tried to tunnel a comp Survivor team "smartly" they'd still get obliterated.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886309#Comment_3886309
lol so? im not against tunnel/camp getting nerfed as long as they make spreading hooks actually a viable strategy against good squads
Considering that perks will likely stay the same, and we'll likely get at least one gen-related perk this year, I think it'll be fine.
Tunneling and camping usually doesn't let you beat actually good players anyways. It lets you punch down harder against people worse than you and gives you a good crutch against people closer to your skill level
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Curious how even in the most oppressive meta for Killers, Overbrine Eruption, tunneling and camping was still through the roof.
Funny how players will always use the strongest, most efficient strategy that requires the least amount of effort.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886179#Comment_3886179
Does that mean 1 - (0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8) = 59% that one of the four maps is chosen?
Because the survivor choice going from 100% to 59% doesn't sound very fair to me, when the killer choice is just flat out going from 100% to 20%.
I would think so, but it's DBD math, who knows how it'll end up actually working.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886166#Comment_3886166
The concern is if all 4 survivors bring 4 different map offerings, then what is the overall chance that one of those maps is chosen?
20% for each of the four, I assume the rest of the maps have the normal weight.
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This sounds good.
I've been burned by BHVR promises, but it does sound mostly good.
The only things that concern me are the "giving up" and hiding.
There are a few ways that giving up is good, like when it's a 2v1 and you're hooked. Likewise, it kind of sounds like the system proposed will nab a lot of new players.
Likewise, with hiding in a 2v1, it used to be that you could try to find a Key. Now the game is unwinnable, no matter what, so they really just need to speed it up.
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@Lyn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884460#Comment_3884460
There is currently no evidence people don't want to play survivor other than people who don't like survivor in 2v8 telling us that nobody likes playing survivor as if it is a fact. I enjoy survivor in 2v8 and the fact you can instantly getting 5 other people (7 before the bots messed with the matchmaking/lobbies) at any time of day or night, often even faster than you could find 3 in 1v4 strongly implies otherwise. There's just significantly more killers proportionally, which is all we do know.
When queues take 15 minutes for Killer and .00001 seconds for Survivor, there's something wrong with the role.
If Survivor in 2v8 is not appealing, no amount of BP is going to change it.
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Too little too late, if you ask me.
None of this addresses WHY people don't want to play Survivor. Getting rid of bots, at least a bit, helps a tiny bit.
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@Skeleton23 said:
Very Very True. I used to play The Trapper because I'm a Strategist Killer or I like to think before I do something. Ghost Face is now my main because I like playing that Killer that takes his time. I may try being more aggressive with my gameplay. Either way no player will be happy on how I play. The best tip I got is if someone does you dirty be dirty back. I can be wrong
play how you like, but also remember to treat people how you want to be treated.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884123#Comment_3884123
Why would we be trying to push Kill Rates up further?
So far as we know, they are already high enough.
if we'd want to talk about killrates, we'd first have to change mindset of every "casual" player in this game.
If you are willing to talk about killrates, you'd have to play every match with the goal to win.
If you are willing to play every match with a goal to win, you'd have to change your casual mindset and actually start seriously improving at the game instead of looking for casual ways to win while constantly contradicting yourself with "i play for fun, not to win" agenda.
As i said many times, way too many players in this community are trying to have the casual training on how to play the game, are expecting the game to be balanced around casual gameplay just so that they can win as many matches as possible. That's not how it works. If you truly wanna win, you need to start working on yourself, and this applies to every player, especially survivor ones where so many people don't wanna realize they are playing team role when they play soloQ.
Either way, BHVR either need to commit to MMR and make the game competitive or back it off.
ohh but guess what, majority of players don't want to see that because they don't want to have their egos crushed. Implementing better MMR system will make no visual impact on already average players who constantly struggle, it will mostly make impact on players already at very high skill level. That way, average players will still continue complaining because hey, complaining is always a better solution than improving.
Correct. Most people overestimate their skill level and are likely not as good as they think.
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@Skeleton23 said:
I suggested a new way to bring new players to DBD was to have a option to only get in matches with people in ur skill level. But this just a friendly thing I wanted to mention it. (note I am still kinda new to DBD and that can be why I'm struggling) I'm not blaming the players one bit if ur all wondering
This is absolutely something that has been suggested before. Why it has not been implemented is anyone's guess.
All the current system really does is keep brand-new players away from players with 10K hours.
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@Skeleton23 said:
Thank you all for being honest. If ur wondering I am still learning the game and I some tips would be great. One I do play survivor and it's honestly is easy to me to win as survivor then Killer. I'm not asking to rise kill rate just help Killers keep up like new perks or even give Survivors more objectives to escape. I just think there's a major balancing issue that's all because I want it to be fun for both sides
Do not worry, my reply to ExtremeDBD was not meant for you.
Sometimes we just vibe with one role easier than the other. Killer has always been easy for me (I too am extraordinarily humble) but Survivor has always been…unpleasant. Perhaps it is the opposite for you.
As a new Killer player, I'd recommend just finding someone who seems cool and vibing with them. Don't look too much into Kills or Escapes. Just play the game, try to learn/improve and have fun.
Those are the best generalized tips I can give without any more specific scenarios
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@XtremeDBD said:
This game is no longer fun as killer because you can just start the match and the survivors are already done doing the Gens
Gen speeds, similar to my feedback last month. There needs to be something else for survivors to do that is required to progress the game in their favor.
Adding generator parts seems like a nice way to make survivors spend more time on potentially riskier progression, and likely forcing chases to find your next objective. This could also indirectly reduce the effectiveness of bully squads since they actually need to part ways with their teammates to move along in the game. After installing the part, the gen would no longer regress past a certain point, so they didn’t just waste time for nothing.
This would give just enough time for killers to slow the game down, just a lil bit, by intercepting attempts to find a part, while ensuring that finding and installing a part can't be completely undone.
Why would we be trying to push Kill Rates up further?
So far as we know, they are already high enough.
Making Survivors have even less time to do anything but gens will only increase how fast gens go.
Cats out of the bag, so to speak. Both sides are playing as competitively as they can. That's on BHVR. The removal of all the BS both sides could do also means there's very little swing in matches. Once one side starts winning, they usually just stomp. Almost no chance to comeback and right now, that favors Killers.
Either way, BHVR either need to commit to MMR and make the game competitive or back it off.
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@Skeleton23 said:
I know it's werid to say but it's been killing me not to talk about. Sorry if it's stupid. Sorry if it seems like I'm being entitled but I'm just saying it just feels one sided now
Would you like some help?
Is there anything specifically you can point out that I can maybe help with?
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884013#Comment_3884013
well give the people what they want.
I would not be opposed
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????
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It's bad that I know exactly who this is in reference to lmao
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883713#Comment_3883713
Who get's to decide what's BS and what isn't? (The answer is BHVR, obviously).
Base-kit no where to hide is BS if you like to play with a more stealth orientated play style. The entire mode if full of BS things and that's probably part of the point of it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883714#Comment_3883714
Some people just hate Legion. Short of completely changing them, there's nothing BHVR could do to the Killer that would make them more tolerable to those players, whatever mode they happen to appear in.
Can't really fault them.
He's always had horrendous design and BHVR has never committed to really changing them away from Mending.
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@tjt85 said:
Wow, I guess there are a lot of Legion haters out there…
(for me personally, Wesker, Spirit, Huntress, Nemi and Blight are way less fun to face in 2V8, but to each their own)
What about adding an "anti-Legion" class?
Maybe something like Resilience / Smash Hit / Inner Focus / Made For This could work pretty well. Dead Hard might be a good choice for the build too, though obviously less useful against a Legion.
There really should be more Survivor classes anyway, focused around different play styles.
I doubt he's even OP, he's probably just annoying.
I don't think anyone enjoys mending
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average BHVR moment
- Add something nobody wanted
- Ignore feedback
- Add another thing that nobody wanted
- Ignore feedback
Why won't anyone play our 2v8 mode??? We have dumbass bots and mend simulator!
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882948#Comment_3882948
Itisskillful to know how to run a loop, especially against all 33 (?) Killers in the game.It's funny how easy to forget that we are already up to 38 killers in the game.
I lose count sometimes okayyyyy 😂
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@solidhex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882927#Comment_3882927
BHVR never communicated a clear win condition for both sides.
It also encourages an unhealthy playstyle that is much more unfun and braindead for both sides.
Having 6-8 hook stages but 0 kills can be a good performance (depending on the killer, map, loadouts etc.), it all depends on the perspective - if we see kills as the only goal than this killer has failed, and this also leads to other conclusions: we need to do something about tunneling - nerf it and re-balance the game around this change.@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882831#Comment_3882831
Kills makes sense for Killer but escapes for Survivors doesn't really make sense
Mostly.
To some extent, Kills do equal skills. You probably aren't going to 4K or 3K consistently if you are being outclassed, but I do think Hooks should have more to do with it.
Like solidhex said, a 4K 6 is FAR less impressive than a 2K 10.
Escapes as Survivor definitely makes zero sense and I think most people are in agreeance with that.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882458#Comment_3882458
If you have two characters with a power level of 50, and a third with a power level of 75, you would not be remiss in saying that the game is balanced around a power level of 50. […]
You did the exact same thing as Firellius, just with different wording. So, I'm just going to copy-paste what I said to him:
You are assuming that those changes were made to put Killers at the level of SWF or that it was the result of them when there's nothing that indicates such. In fact, just as I explained, none of them helped Killers to specifically deal with 4-man SWF, but with survivors in general.They are gen affecting perks and complete the exact same objective, slowing the game down.
Alright. Still no regression perks, and still nerfed since 6.1.
I'll refrain from posting the picture of Haddonfield's pallet. No infinites were not skillful, but we've moved to the opposite. Now we have tiles that are actually useless. Most Coldwind tiles are horrible, for example. Almost zero gyms spawn and all you get are ######### filler pallets and massive dead zones. How skillful of the Killer to hit someone when there's nothing for miles?
So, again, your complaint is that now you can't link strong loops one after another in every map, and now there are some tiles where you need to get the stunt for them to be useful, which requires skill and timing, before getting to the next strong loop, right?
SWF can make up for poor perks via communication, which has always been the strongest tool in the game. Solo Q feels the loss of perks and maps far more keenly because they have nothing else to pick them up.
How? How has having communication helped anyone with "DS being 3 seconds and useless for a long while, Self-Care, Iron Will, etc etc." or DH being a bad perk according to you because "it relies on ping"? Are you telling me that being able to talk with teammates makes those "tiles that are actually useless" any more useful?
Yeah, I mean if you're going to bury your head in the sand and ignore that it helped Killer's deal with SWF by closing that gap, idk how to help you. All you've been doing is arguing semantics. "It helped against ALL Survivors" Yeah, no #########. They understand that punishing people for playing with their friends is dumb. Killers didn't need help dealing with Solo Q, they never have. It doesn't take a lot of thought to figure out why these changes were made.
Once again, semantics, but I could've been more clear. Both had extremely strong interactions and were overtuned. They are both still good, along with Grim, now that I'm thinking about it.
Excellent strawman. No, that is not even remotely what I said. To reiterate, we've moved too far into the other direction. Most maps have massive dead zones and where there are not dead zones, there are bad tiles that may buy you five seconds if played perfectly. That is not good design. It certainly benefits all Killer players, especially bad ones, but that does not make it good design.
Here's why:
It takes away Survivor skill. It is skillful to know how to run a loop, especially against all 33 (?) Killers in the game. When you fill maps with dead zones and pallets that are "stun or die" like the aforementioned Coldwind middle of cornfield pallets or Haddonfield pallets, that feels bad for Survivors since they have no way to reasonably and effectively express their skill.
It dumbs down the Killer experience. This has been something going on for a while, probably since Overbrine Eruption. The average Killer today knows how to apply regression, and they know how to tunnel. They are not very good at chases and it shows. I believe this is because they didn't need to be for a while, due to how strong slowdown was/is AND due to how new maps are laid out.
This will usually work out fine, but when they come up against some bad RNG, they crumble, hence we get a lot of Killers still thinking that Survivors are too strong and that maps are busted. They've simply never had to learn.
Once again, to reiterate because I know you'll want to try to say it, I do not want to return to infinites. No, I also do not want to return to old Cowshed. I'd rather have something like old Mac maps, sans infinites. Strong tiles, sure, but they are spaced out so they aren't all on top of each other. Skill expression for both Killer and Survivor.
How is communication strong enough to offset the loss of perks? Here's Jim and James.
James: Hey Jim, I'm taking this Trickster to Shack since it's a high-walled structure, I know DS doesn't do anything right now and he's kinda laggy, so you better leave so he doesn't tunnel you.
Jim: Got it, I'll leave so I don't get tunneled out immediately and have the game be functionally over after two minutes, thanks James!
or
Jim: Hey James, if you have to leave Shack, there's just a weird haybale filler in the middle of the field. You know, the one the Killer can just lunge around either side of the "loop".
James: Yeah, I know it, thanks for the heads-up, can you see anything else nearby?
Jim: No, but this Claudette is healing me, so maybe we can try to get a save if you go down in the pallet?
James: Sure, if I make it out of Shack we can try that, that'd be a crazy save!
Now if we were in Solo Q….
That first scenario would probably end in Jim getting tunneled out after James leads the Killer to Shack since Trickster is great at tunneling off of hook.
That second scenario would be almost impossible.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882562#Comment_3882562
All of those things but i honestly thought the Matchmaking ystem would fix "the unfair skill distrubution"
Not when it only weighs Kills and Escapes as wins and losses.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882459#Comment_3882459
Everbody runs Meta at nearly every level in this game. My point was that 1 perk basically counters the "god" build of slugging.
Or was it coordination?
Or was it an unfair skill distrubution?
Or was it a bad map?
There are other factors.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880917#Comment_3880917
I think you are clearly over estimating how good it is in a coordinated team, in solo queue i agree it's bad. MFT is really good in a team as well but in solo queue it is not. WGLF is bad but not in a team. The thing that i'm trying to say here is that perks here can be used in solo queue but are not nearly as effective if you were to run these perks in a 4-man squad. The best example of this is the newest perk they released which is Shoulder Of Burden, perk that you rarely against solo queue players but is very common against teams. One Unbreakable cost me the entire match because i was Slugging, the strat that everybody says is an instant win button for killer
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OVPXGX2OAX3F/20250204210426-1.jpg
Considering they ran full meta and were clearly trying hard, not sure I can make any real judgement off of this one image.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882356#Comment_3882356
By making maps smaller, they forced the tiles (and gens) to be closer together. […]
What makes this a change that makes the game balanced around "SWF vs Killer"?
DS being 3 seconds and useless for a long while, Self-Care (seriously why), Iron Will, etc etc. Yeah, DH too. A perk that relies on ping isn't a good perk.
Same question.
PR, PGTW, Corrupt, DMS are all bad now?
PR and PGTW are the 1.5 regression perks that are still viable, with PGTW being debatable as it depends on the current progression the gen you are kicking has. And yet, none of them are worth running nowadays if comparing them to simply slugging the survivors for all the reasons already mentioned.
Corrupt and DMS are not regression perks, but funnily enough, both have received nerfs since 6.1.
And you are seriously going to hold that argument that if regression was better Killers wouldn't do X? Of course they would. That's how video games work.
I'm not going to hold that argument, because I never made it. In fact, I never said that slugging doesn't need to be addressed.
My argument was and has always been that the mistake BHVR made was making all those changes that made slugging more rewarding than hooking without dealing with the core problem (gen progression / min gen times). That, and that they will make an even bigger mistake if they implement another base mechanic to deal with slugging without dealing with it first (and with first, I mean preferably at the same time).
You seem to be under some false narrative that 4-man High MMR SWF's are overpowered and winning all the time.
What part of anything I said has made you come to that conclusion?
By making maps smaller, they forced loop quality to go down. This means Survivor skill matters far less than Killer incompetence.
That doesn't make any sense. In any case, it is the contrary: With no easy infinites and fewer super-safe loops you can use, survivor skills matter more than ever, as now you have to loop well to use them in an effective manner.
Are you telling me that you consider it more skillful to just vault a window in an infinite loop over and over again than needing enough game sense to know when to drop the pallet, stay or leave the loop, etc.?
That coupled with getting rid of meta perks, whilst also increasing the number of anti-loop and anti-gen aspects of the game, has disproportionally affected Solo Q Survivors.
But all that also affects SWF…
Again, you are claiming that those changes made the game be balanced around "4-man SWF vs Killers". What I'm asking you is how those changes accomplished that when they affect all survivors or even both sides and not just SWF / SoloQ.
If you have two characters with a power level of 50, and a third with a power level of 75, you would not be remiss in saying that the game is balanced around a power level of 50.
If one of the characters with a PL of 50 was then buffed to a PL of 75, you would then say that the game is balanced around a PL of 75.
They are gen affecting perks and complete the exact same objective, slowing the game down.
The fact that you keep referencing SWF in every sentence pertaining to an imbalance of power.
I'll refrain from posting the picture of Haddonfield's pallet. No infinites were not skillful, but we've moved to the opposite. Now we have tiles that are actually useless. Most Coldwind tiles are horrible, for example. Almost zero gyms spawn and all you get are ######### filler pallets and massive dead zones. How skillful of the Killer to hit someone when there's nothing for miles?
SWF can make up for poor perks via communication, which has always been the strongest tool in the game. Solo Q feels the loss of perks and maps far more keenly because they have nothing else to pick them up.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882359#Comment_3882359
bias? Please tell me what is bias in a game where average player refuses to look back at their own mistakes and proceeds to make essays of excuses after they lose?
Saying "Solo Q is spoiled" is pretty biased.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882167#Comment_3882167
game is balanced around SWF for completely different reasons, and even with that in mind, we can clearly see that perks that are literally way too powerful in SWF are not even in plans for being touched at all.
If we balanced the game around soloQ, we would balance it around artificially inflated killrates through going next on hook, playing for whatever objectives that are different than team related ones etc.
Game SHOULD be balanced around SWF with QoL changes implemented to soloQ that would make overall experience better while not making the game more about making SWFs even more powerful, but making soloQ players feel even more spoiled.
Last line revealed that major bias lololol.
SWF aren't even escaping 50% of the time in the best case scenario.
Look, just be honest, if you want the KR to be 75%, just say that.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882248#Comment_3882248
The destruction of old maps. […] Tile spawn logic rework.
What do you mean by "destruction"? The removal of infinite loops? Reducing the size of gigantic maps so killers with low mobility don't have to spend a long time to reach a gen? And what about the tiles? Again, do you mean not allowing survivors to link strong loops one after another, making them a pseudo-infinite loop?…
Nerfing of older perks.
What perks? Old DH, that allowed survivors to make every chase take at least 1/2 longer? Old-old DH, that was even worse in putting the killer in lose-lose situations? The ones that allowed you to heal between hits?…
Regression expansion.
And how does that "expansion" help against 4-man SWF when they nerfed every single one of those perks, leaving only 1.5 of them viable?
6.1.0
What part of it made dealing with a 4-man SWF easier?
Pretty much all Killers coming with basekit anti-loop.
And how does anti-loop help specifically to deal with a coordinated 4-man SWF?
A wealth of aura perks.
Same question as before. Also, survivors were the ones that shifted the game from stealth to looping. What do you want, being able to hide all the match and then make the killer do a Benny Hill sketch with you for 50 seconds minimum when he finds you?
MMR.
… how the same SBMM that can put a baby killer against a 4-man P100 SWF with SWAT level coordination help him against them, exactly?
I don't know, man. Seems like most of the changes you are talking about were those that balanced the power trip playing survivor in the day was, and things that yeah, made chase easier for Killers in general compared to when the game was survivor sided, but I don't see how any of that helps them specifically against 4-man SWF to the point of being able to claim "The game is balanced around Killers vs SWF now".
By making maps smaller, they forced the tiles (and gens) to be closer together. This made it so that Killers felt like there was higher tile density, but the actual number of tiles remained the same. That is, until recently, where they simply adjusted that logic. Now, fewer tiles spawn, fewer still with pallets.
They also completely destroyed the old atmosphere of those maps, but that isn't a balance thing.
DS being 3 seconds and useless for a long while, Self-Care (seriously why), Iron Will, etc etc. Yeah, DH too. A perk that relies on ping isn't a good perk.
PR, PGTW, Corrupt, DMS are all bad now? And you are seriously going to hold that argument that if regression was better Killers wouldn't do X? Of course they would. That's how video games work.
You seem to be under some false narrative that 4-man High MMR SWF's are overpowered and winning all the time.
They aren't. They aren't even escaping 50% of the time, based off of our most recent stats from BHVR.
By making maps smaller, they forced loop quality to go down. This means Survivor skill matters far less than Killer incompetence. That coupled with getting rid of meta perks, whilst also increasing the number of anti-loop and anti-gen aspects of the game, has disproportionally affected Solo Q Survivors.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882167#Comment_3882167
And what changes had they made in these recent years that had rebuilt killers to deal with 4-man SWF and shifted the game to be balanced around them, exactly? Just curious…
The destruction of old maps. Nerfing of older perks. Tile spawn logic rework. Regression expansion. 6.1.0. Pretty much all Killers coming with basekit anti-loop. A wealth of aura perks. MMR.
Perhaps all of those things seemed straightforward at the time, but they've rebalanced the game to be SWF vs Killer, where it was SWF >> Killer = Solo Q, now it is SWF = Killer >> Solo Q
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882167#Comment_3882167
Solo queue gets to eat it because whenever we suggest targeted nerfs at SWF everyone says we can't punish people for playing with their friends so solo queue gets to suffer!
Neither is a good option.
One is a quick death, one is slow. Making people feel bad about queueing with friends will be so bad.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882153#Comment_3882153
I don't think the idea of balancing around anti-fun is fair. Balance around making the game fun, and just discourage the anti-fun strategies instead (which they have done with the anti-camp self-unhook mechanic, among others)
If you balance around what's anti-fun, instead of just designing more fun into the game, you end up into a whack-a-mole situation where you just keep smashing whatever the community thinks is most toxic at the time, until the game is boring and homogenized.Also, I can tell that you just skimmed my post because buffing regression (or just adding hook incentives in general) would ideally be done after buffing solo queue to the level of SWF. The game's REAL problem is that the game isn't balanced around SWF when it absolutely should be.
The actual real issue, which is what you are getting close to, is that the game is balanced around SWF.
The game used to be balanced around Solo Q with all the absolutely wild ######### you could have/do. Over time, that has dwindled. Now, Killers are built to deal with 4-man SWF's. Solo Q has been left in the dust due to these changes.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
Guys.
The slug meta is not a problem, it's a symptom.
The game has three major issues right now: Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
If the game was balanced around SWF, it would be a lot better imo. They've SLOWLY been doing this by giving the Survivor HUD more information (who's doing gens, who's being chased, etc.) but they need to go a step further and implement a ping system and text chat system (with the ability to block/mute people mid-game.)
When solo survivor is successfully at the same power level as SWF, we can then buff Killer to compensate. Now SWF isn't that much of a gamebreaking advantage anymore and both sides are fun to play. You guys have been treading this path already with the Survivor HUD additions, but you're moving too slowly. Add more information and tools for Survivors, maybe a ping system and chat system and buff killer to compensate.
With that out of the way, we still have the issue of slugging. The problem is, hooking is severely disincentivized due to activating EXTREMELY powerful Survivor perks. Gen slowdown is heavily nerfed (which also disincentivizes hooking for some perks such as Pain Res and Pop), both of which are contributing to heavy slugging which is boring for Survivors.
We need to incentivize hooks, especially multiple so that both sides have time to play (no one likes dying on the first hook.) There are multiple ways to do this, such as having a global 7% gen regression on any hook (just an example.) Another issue is that picking up a survivor leaves the killer extremely vulnerable to Flashbangs which have no counterplay at the moment (looking away doesn't help if the survivor drops it too close, so it's entirely in their favor.) You can't just incentivize hooking, you ALSO need to incentivize picking up.
The game is better than it used to be but BHVR's shortsightedness is blaring at an all-time right now. The game needs massive help because high MMR is really frustrating for Killer and Survivor due to the game's balance. Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
I have bad news.
Killers are doing just fine, even in High MMR. They are at or above BHVR's target of 60% KR.
Buffing gen regression isn't going to get people not to slug lol. It will make slugging even more prevalent. We saw that with CoB, Overcharge and Eruption. Three MASSIVELY overtuned perks that made Killer into super-easy mode. Did we see a reduction of tunneling? No. Why? Because players will always optimize the fun out of games.
If there's an oppressive strat, people will abuse it until they cannot.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881687#Comment_3881687
There's the gaslighting. You really think that the game and its community has nothing to do with it? The game has a golden formula, which makes it fun, and that's why people play even when they don't have the best time. People would rather invest themselves in the game and hope for it to improve, even if it's in a rough patch, rather than to abandon it. Doesn't that sound like the opposite of nihilism to you?
It's like the pushback against people in real life who've decided to put their foot down, and upset others for the purpose of teaching them a life lesson. "How could you do such a cruel thing?!" It's about voicing your disapproval to things that seem wrong. He's seeing that when killers play nice, they get just as harsh treatment back as if they were doing the "toxic" strategies. So he said enough is enough, and shared his revelation with others, that they need not play nice, and should instead focus on playing the best they can. The people advocating against that, and saying that you should throw the game so that your opponents can have more fun, when they'll never do the same for you... they're either delusional or just ignorant.
I don't know what logic you're going off of that you came up with all of that, but this person's experience is not unique. Tons of people complain about the game, some more constructively than others, and they still have friends outside of the game. It's easy to character assassinate someone, and imply things about them that you can't possibly know, especially when it suits your side's narrative (or just yours alone). That is what's wrong with this community. They're more concerned with insults, and trying to make others feel as insane and alone as possible, rather than with improving the game.
So…instead of continuing to fight the good fight as it were…you'd rather people give up and start contributing to the problem?
Excellent idea.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881523#Comment_3881523
I'm fully of the opinion that the "go next" problem is a game health issue, and is a key indicator that the target 60% kill rate is probably too much. There's a ton that contributes to that, but just about every patch has pushed the game that direction since about 6.1.0.
I agree, to a point, it's likely multi-faceted but game health must play a large role.
Some of it is likely entitlement, but I do think a lot of it boils down to the fact that the most popular mode, Solo Survivor, is absolutely miserable in the best of times. Players receive few rewards, few enjoyable matches and little progression for their efforts.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881517#Comment_3881517
Nothing about your suggestion, though, even begins to "incentivize them to see that hope is not lost". At best, it's simply a nerf, and at worst you're just removing a literal aspect of hope (that you might be able to self rescue if you get really lucky).
It's targeting a symptom, not a core issue.
Did you ever think that maybe if they hadn't reworked maps, nerfed tile spawn logic, added tons of dead zones, and added a ton of unsafe pallets that player may not have been in a situation to have "zero resources nearby"?
and then also made sure every new Killer had an oppressive chase power to deal with nerfed loops and and maps?
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881499#Comment_3881499
All flawed designs don't get me wrong, its a small fix to incentivise people to see that not all hope is lost. Banning people for abusing this unintended flawed machanic however is punishable, but the thing is, people just shouldn't be able to do it.
Perhaps we could address WHY they feel all hope is lost due to early misplays.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881461#Comment_3881461
Then they shouldn't be playing the game. They know what to expect from dbd they have no right to make others miserable, if you're queuing for a match, you're expected to play it out. The alternative is they make ranked and casual gamemodes so people who actually take the game seriously can play and have fun freely
If you want to ban people for making others miserable, then we've got a long list of things to ban for.
Not great criteria, imo.
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No
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@ShadowHeart said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880517#Comment_3880517
When you really break down the numbers, it makes you wonder how survivors ever lose a match. If a killer takes 60 seconds to chase and hook a survivor, the survivors could have completed 180 seconds worth of generators out of the 450 (base) seconds of total generator progress needed. Remember, that 450 seconds can be divided by 4 and completed concurrently.
And if you assume 60 seconds for the total time of a killer finding a survivor, chasing them, and hooking them, it takes a killer 540 seconds to get their first kill without tunneling (2 hooking all survivors, which is what they want) and 720 seconds to get a 4k. And unlike the survivors, this time is cannot be divided. The killer must go through it all, unless the survivors make serious mistakes.
It would be 120 seconds, assuming Survivors spawn on gens and do nothing but gens. One player is being chased, after all.
No team plays perfectly, not even comp teams. It is rather unrealistic to assume the absolute worst-case scenario for every situation when the average is plainly seen in official statistics.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880929#Comment_3880929
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880937#Comment_3880937
I'm sorry, but if you had a game you thought was pretty darn fun, and then balance change after balance change threatened to ruin it, you can use whatever word you want, but yes, you would be scared to lose it. Not lose win streaks, strawman. Lose the fun in it. I don't keep win streaks because it's fake bragging rights, and that's because every 5 matches 1 decent team will just take the streak away. Whoever that doesn't happen to is just lucky or smurfing. Sorry. Good survivors have to throw to lose, because their gen efficiency alone leaves the killer insufficient time to kill them. Y'all can keep doing the trash talk and buzz words thing, but it's not a legit logical argument. That's why this game is stagnant, because the devs do think that stuff is like a really good argument.
That's clearly untrue.
There are Killer winstreaks in the thousands. Hell, Clown has a winstreak near 500, iirc.
Even though I'd probably be miserable, I will get back on DBD after having not played in 8 months just to see if I can win the mythical 6th match you claim is impossible to win, if you'd like that
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Cheaters can just insert themselves into your lobby anyways, doesn't matter if crossplay is on or not.