Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872841#Comment_3872841
There's websites out there that give you all those stats.
And it doesn't work for the majority of players.
Only for PC players.
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@WolfePhD said:
I know I am late to the thread, but I still wanted to give my thoughts. As a superfan, I understand that years of playing a multiplayer strategy game as my main hobby has made me think strategically, at a high and intense level, in and out of DBD. For that reason, I feel I truly understand where people come from when there is cause for concern that BHVR might make a change that kills the game. My first thought when I saw the news was to telegraph how this would be applied in future situations—but I just don't think that is the intention.
At the same time, I am worried that the DBD community is indirectly trapping BHVR in continual Catch-22's. The other day, I was watching a DBD video (I think Horceror?) where the developers were criticized for tainting PTB's by not having appropriate matchmaking in place to validate any results on strength and performance. I'm not good with time, but I personally have been under the assumption this entire time that BHVR watched the same video that I did, and immediately implemented a change to fix the problem moving forward because they recognized it was a serious problem that needed to be addressed. Shouldn't we be celebrating that behavior? If the developers are actually taking time to listen to the community and even watch the same YouTube essays I watch while I eat—that means they are just as committed to the world of Dead by Daylight as I am. For that reason, I think they should be given some trust.
I know that my observation is not fact—and I am drawing conclusions on pathos and not logos—but that is just what I believe. It does not make sense to me that BHVR would make any move to hurt the game or "kill" it. It is clear to me as a player that Skull Merchant's chapter changed something very high up at BHVR because the way they acted before Tools of Torment versus now has changed completely. Sometimes I get the impression the community is not allowing the game development company to be game developers.
Bots added to PTB? Fine.
Bots added to public queues? Not fine.
Quite simple.
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Not sure if many are still around that remember it, but the awful red flashing VFX when you got stunned around GhostFace's release, iirc.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871004#Comment_3871004
Harsher DC punishments does not mean bans it can just be increased time but your illiterate self makes it hard to comprehend that
okay lmao insulting me really furthers your point
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@danielmaster87 said:
This will only make things worse. Bots don't even know how to use Plague fountains.
You know it must be REALLY bad when we agree.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870828#Comment_3870828
Did I say ban? No now your making up lies but I'm not surprised with the incompetency
Did you not say you wanted harsher DC bans?
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870683#Comment_3870683
They been trying to make it fun plus whenever they try to mix things for Survivors y'all get angry and want reverts but y'all are never happy so we can just shut down the game or bring more punishments to filter some of y'all idc
Who is you all?
"BHVR tried to make things better, as usual, it didn't work"
"Therefore, we need to shut down the game or ban people for not having fun"
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870406#Comment_3870406
You signed up for it when you hit the find match button Devs have a right to punish and take away privileges that are abused and ruin matches you can leave but you must except the penalty for doing so your not entitled to a dc just cause things are unfun. Don't like it? Uninstall the game
Gqme isn't fun due to variety of reasons.
Commonly agreed that the game is stagnant at best.
Double-down on making it less enjoyable.
???
Profit.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869533#Comment_3869533
Cause they didn't need to suicide cause they had an easy exit button with no punishment. Now that it has a punishment people suicide on hook to circumvent the penalty which is why attempts on hook need to go
And that accomplishes what exactly?
All of you've done is trap people inside a game they find to be so unpleasant that they'd rather leave.
Not a recipe for success.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
Imma be honest alot of the maps you listed as killer sided are actually pretty balanced. In what world is suffocation put on either variant killer sided? Sure rng can be bad but the maps are huge. Similar situation with Greenville, huge map, but relatively bad resources, therefore very poor design and unfun experience for both sides.
Because Suffo has the tendency to spawn 4 gens on one side, thereby making half of the map irrelevant to the Killer.
Greenville isn't honestly that big, but it has about thirty thousand garbage pallets. If there was an annoying tier, it might be first.
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@TonTon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869145#Comment_3869145
Im gonna have to say bull on this one I played when DC penalties didn't exist and DC rate was 3x what it is now maybe you got lucky in your experience but the overall experience for people was DC for days
DC's may have been higher, but hook suicides were functionally zero.
I see and hear about suicides/DC'g more than I ever did then
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Star Wars is not horror or horror-inspired.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869380#Comment_3869380
The balance for one does not equal the balance for many.
explain in detail what you mean by this statement. Are you saying we should balance the game around worse survivor players so worse survivor players escape?
If you or I were to hypothetically win 99% of our games on, say, Killer; that does not mean Killer is OP.
That was the logic you were using earlier. You can be a statistical outlier, but that doesn't mean that the game is X-sided.
Your own personal experience doesn't dictate the balance of the game at large
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869373#Comment_3869373
the thing is. my escape rate on survivor does not correlate to these numbers. i escape way more than these numbers show. most of the killers that aren't the tiptop killer player are free escapes. only the very good killers pose any threat and even when killer is threat, it's not guaranteed loss.
"I escape all of my matches, so that means the game is Survivor-sided"
brother, when I played, I would consistently go months without dropping a match when I played serious. Nobody cared, because I'm one dude and there's millions of other players.
The balance for one does not equal the balance for many.
Just because I won almost all of my games with Legion doesn't mean that Legion is extremely OP
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@TwinsMain2004 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
worst map list ever
anything else to add?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869352#Comment_3869352
it is. the go next mentality is survivor entitlement.
Unfortunately, you are factually wrong.
Even at its "most survivor-sided" the Killers still kill more than half of the team.
Feel free to keep deluding yourself from the truth. Killers are the power role, just like people wanted. Now we have to live with the consequences, and people who still think they need more buffs.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869309#Comment_3869309
or maybe i do not believe that survivor are "this weak".
No, it's pretty clear you think the game is Survivor sided, somehow.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869255#Comment_3869255
i don't pressure gates. I am pressuring survivors. all i am saying is that you can get a lot more hooks in end game than you think you can.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
i don't think there is any killer sided maps. the maps that are killer sided look neutral to me while neutral maps are survivor sided. hawkin is a lot stronger than you think it is. i don't think the loops are favor for killer on that map. a good looper can waste a lot of time on that map.
Then you are either insanely biased or haven't played DBD, respectfully.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
There is no way you can say that pallet city (The game) is killer sided. Half the pallets in that map are 100% safe pallets or god pallets that must be broken. There is no way you think that chapel is fine with that broken ass main building. Lery's is killer specific, so is hawkins and so is RPD and cowshed is killer sided?
It's a tiny map with tight gens and no LoS on the Killer. It has consistently had a 60% KR on NightLight.
Chapel is fine. The building is fine, kick the walls.
Lery's has garbage pallets, no LoS for Survivors and can have tight three gens. But yes, Nurse or Blight or Billy will have an issue there.
Hawkins has some of the worst pallets in the game.
RPD also has some abysmal pallets and few loops of any quality.
Cowshed spawns like, 3 pallets now and doesn't spawn gyms. The main building is basically useless, Shack is on an island and there's massive deadzones everywhere.
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
If you cannot win 2 gens or even three in 3v1 with no hookstage on that 3, than it is skill issue. If I can win it many times as a killer main playing survivor, then it is winnable in most time.
Also, that map list is pretty weird. Especially The Game part when you play an M1 killer.
Yeah, no.
The onus is on the Killer to screw up. If they do, the Survivors have a chance. If the Killer does not, they cannot win.
The Game is a litmus test. Yes, it has a lot of pallets, but it's also tiny, with zero gen spread and zero LoS for Survivors. It's a Killer-sided map
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869197#Comment_3869197
Can't wait to see Pulsar doesn't exaggerate in a single reply on dbd forum.
You know the answer. There are maybe 5% really valid reasons to leave a match outside of all these I don't love this map, i don't love this killer, i don't love this perk, i don't love this teammate, i don't love this teammate's perk, killer's perk, this addon, this item, this first chase, that killer outplayed me, that killer didn't leave instantly, that survivor do totem, that survivor doesn't do totem, that I jumped into killer's face with Lithe, that i pressed Drama in open space and got Exposed and many-many other I can list for 2 days without sleeping.
Wanna fix them? Lol, good luck.How did I exaggerate?
You were the one that said you wanted to "give them a weekend from DBD" for "…blowing up your gens, throwing all the pallets…"
You want to ban people for missing skill checks and throwing pallets unnecessarily. Yikes.
You could try to make it so that the game doesn't end after a single mistake. That'd be something. It'll take a while, since people have learned and had it beat into them that going down means you will get tunneled out, but it's possible to change it.
The alternative, banning people for not being up to snuff, is not an option.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
Toba and Nostromo survivor sided haha
Thompson House neutral, the map that spawns 7 pallets…Toba is a large map with a LOT of clutter. Main building is good, it has good pallets and windows, and Shack is easily accessible. It's something I would call Survivor leaning, but I do think it still favors them.
Nostromo spawns better loops than Toba, is just as large but has a worse main and no Shack. Again, I'd call it leaning.
Thompson House has managed to retain its ability to spawn jungle gym chains to Shack, which I am weighting heavily because that's pretty ridiculous.
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@kaoraku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869183#Comment_3869183
I am not your bestie. And even if I wouldn't play survivor enough I would know as killer which loop is good or what is not a loop.
And you see? This is the problem. That on the picture is not a loop. It is a filler basicly, so it is not a deadzone there. Near to that pallet there are loops. Also, the hit is not guaranteed, since there is that pallet. If the survivor plays well, they can stun the killer, or just use to get some distance. But definitly able to waste a few more seconds of the killer, which are counts.
What you basicly say that every single tile should be there with a safe or godpallet, and you should be able to loop the killer anywhere. Yeah, that would be a grate game for sure…
I literally cannot think any map which are killer sided. Sure, there are maps which not as good as a survivor, but that is the point. You have to use your brain and resources (pallets and windows) to win chases (in the future too, not only that one).
And yes. You can easily win a game in 3v1 with 3, especially 2 gens left. You 3genned yourself? Yeah then maybe not. But it is not a small mistake. But a game winnable even in 2v1 with 1 gen left. Yes, it is not easy. Yes, it is harder agains some killers. But declaring that 3v1 with 2 gens left is unwinnable clearly shows that you have to get better, and it is not the map's fault or the "OPness" of the killers
The hit is confirmed unless the Killer is bad. There is no Survivor skill expression there, the only way they delay the hit is due to a Killer misplay.
Strawman argument.
I can think of a LOT of maps that are Killer-sided. Here they are
Killer-Sided (or leaning):
- Aazarov's Resting Place
- Coal Tower
- Dead Dawg
- Father Campbell's Chapel
- Forgotten Ruins
- Cowshed (somehow)
- Haddonfield
- Midwich
- RPD East
- RPD West
- Rotten Fields
- Sanctum of Wrath
- Suffocation Pit
- The Game
- Borgo
- Hawkins
- Torment Creek
- Rancid Abattoir
- Lery's
- Wrecker's Yard
Neutral Maps:
- Blood Lodge
- Gas Heaven
- Greenville Square
- Grim Pantry
- Pale Rose
- Groaning Storehouse
- Ironworks
- Ormond
- Shelter Woods
- Thompson House
- Wretched Shop
Survivor-Sided:
- Badham
- Disturbed Ward
- Eyrie
- Family Residence
- Garden of Joy
- Mother's Dwelling
- Nostromo
- Temple
- Toba
A 3v1 at 3 gens is a win for the Killer unless they make a colossal and repeated mistake. That's as easy of a win as it gets. A 3v1 at 2 gens is also a Killer win 9/10 times.
I try to refrain from bringing personal skill into it, but you already did so…
If you have trouble winning a 3v1 at 3 gens, it's probably on you. If you think maps like Haddonfield are Survivor-sided, again, that's on you.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869192#Comment_3869192
Great, in one cases they won't ruin another match and in others I will be glad to fill ticket on site to give them a weekend from DBD. Literally win-win for everyone.
And there it is. You cannot force people to enjoy the game nor to continue to play it. Instead of making their experience even worse, why not try to make it better?
Can't wait to see people get banned for missing a skill check or getting the 'ole controller player trying to heal someone under a pallet issue.
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@FearNoEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869151#Comment_3869151
I admit, I miss old dead hard but it's good they changed it after patch 6.1 it was unhealthy for the game for way too long.
I miss it for the funny but it was unbalanced.
I think it was too much all at once. The maps being shrunk and tile generation being changed, less distance on hit, faster breaking, stronger Killers on average with better map pretense etc etc
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869151#Comment_3869151
Weird how the uptick in giving up started shortly after they tilted the balance heavily toward killers. Quite the completely unrelated correlation.
also eh
I think it more has to do with how the mindset has shifted towards competitiveness.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869145#Comment_3869145
I respectfully disagree. Although you are correct that bots are better than someone who doesn't want to try, no DC penalties means that survivors will DC at the slightest inconvenience because there is no punishment. The time bans help keep chronic DC-ers out of game queues, which is the whole point. Removing time bans means that these crybaby quitters are going to stay in the queue population and far more matches are going to have people who don't want to try. The whole point of the DC penalty system is to prevent these people from queueing up for games.
It's actually not.
It's to force the average player to stay and suicide. It's not harsh enough to punish chronic leavers but it's negatively impacting normal players.
This system would also allow Killers to DC, which is nice since they have no concede option.
There would probwbly be a lot of DC's for the first month, then it would calm down. Novelty factor, since 99% of players probably don't remember the days before the penalty
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@FearNoEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869131#Comment_3869131
This is the most balanced dbd has been from my survivor pov. Killer has been nerfed plenty of times too.
Eh.
2019-early 2022 was probably the most balanced the game has been.
It's been pretty heavy towards Killer since 6.1
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869136#Comment_3869136
You really think getting rid of DC penalties will be good for the game? Haven't you seen what happened when they've done this in the past? The game becomes unplayable for survivors.
I played when before DC penalties existed. People DC'd or suicided less than they do now, in my experience. Maybe I just didn't play like an ass tho idk
Trapping people inside of miserable matches that they don't want to be a part of isn't the right solution. Not making matches miserable would be a preferable solution, but BHVR won't do that.
Turn off DC penalties, remove the pre-game lobby, don't show usernames in-game, remove hook suicides. Someone wants out? They are allowed to leave and give their team a fighting chance with a bot. Their team won't know the DC'd and neither will the Killer. I'd rather have a bot that tries over a teammate that doesn't.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869114#Comment_3869114
At least in my region (US eastern time zone), I have instant killer queues any time after 5:00 PM all through the night, so that's telling me that there is still an excess of survivor players, at least during that time period. During the daytime, survivor queue times are usually longer than killer queue times, but killer queue times are still nowhere near as long as survivor queue times during the peak evening hours. I sure don't see any evidence that "nobody wants to play survivor", and I'd be willing to bet that a majority of the overall player base plays survivor either a majority of the time or 100% of the time.
You could look at the less ancedotal evidence.
If they're looking at bots for backfill, there's probably a population problem.
I'm in favor of this though, hopefully they'll get rid of DC penalties and hook suicides next.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869114#Comment_3869114
Nothing new for PTB.
Especially not when there's nothing new other than Freddy lol
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I do think it's funny that Killer has flipped with Survivor.
Survivor used to be the easy mode, but now it's Killer.
Killer used to be the high pressure no mistakes mode, now it's Survivor.
Curious
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what a surprise
Nobody wants to play Survivor lol
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868203#Comment_3868203
More than a top tier who's slugging?
Unclear. He has the ability to show up whenever he wants if he slugs basically, but his chase is obviously worse
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868203#Comment_3868203
But if you pick someone up that is slugged, they are probably going to be healed up near the end, so you only have to channel the heal for a fraction of a second, not likely enough time for the freddy to notice it is happening, turn the camera around to find where it is, and then hold the teleport interaction to do the teleport.
Not really a risk you can take, Freddy needs to see for just a second.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436394/freddy-slugging-potential
Not really, When you get downed you wake up and he can only teleport to you if you are sleeping. so it doesn't really help as much as you think.
It forces the healer to wake up, thus making his slugging way better.
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Seems like he'll be a ridiculous slugging machine, so probably not a great choice.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867288#Comment_3867288
Does that make Cynic average? Cus I've 4ked them twice with the BP build
Eh, I played Misery a couple of times on maps of their choosing.
Sometimes you catch people on off days, especially in pubs. They were WAY harder in scrims where they were prepared for my BS LMAO
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@cowfarmer said:
They say the game is killer sided but when I look at all these comments then it's nothing but survivor mains. Coincidence?
dang how did you access everyone's playtime???
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@TaxMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865013#Comment_3865013
Where is that data coming from? I know you are the most survivor biased person here but stop with the misinformations please.
Literally was a Killer main for seven years lol
@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867011#Comment_3867011
I didn't think abt asking him where it came from, bros in his own world acting like dbd is a mathalon contest.
bros in his own world somehow being a comp player but also getting rolled by average survivors
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I think if your game is so unpleasant that people are genuinely worried about a significant portion of the playerbase going to customs instead of chancing a public match in order to earn points, you have a BIG issue.
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865139#Comment_3865139
Yes! I also agree that gen slow down perks shouldn't be required to not lose!
I would not mind having some of the weaker gen regression perks basekit, although that would take away from their respective Killers.
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Probably not, but it's easier to do so.
Players will always take the path of least resistance.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864995#Comment_3864995
They're not bad. They speed up gens and give free stuff.
Oh word? A 5 second boost is good.
Monstrous Shrine is now good since it speeds up sacrifices and gives free stuff.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865114#Comment_3865114
Wake up is 25%, chasing anyone else doesn't do anything since they can all just take you away or waste a few seconds with QG, also how do i know u are even a credible player when it comes to experience? You don't even know how Wake Up works and how basic diversion and time waste from a gen is massive time lost. You may not be a casual but ur likely no a pub stomper either. Knowing in game math is not gonna help you win tbh, cus like i said, ur not seeing the bigger picture.
The more I see, the more I'm convinced this is bait. Not sure why you have such an issue downing people. Supposedly, you're a comp player. I dabbled in comp for a bit and I lost interest in DBD due to not finding challenge in pubs. If I can do it, surely a full-on comp player could. I could probably come out of retirement and still 4K 99% of my matches.
In the chance that it isn't bait, and if you ever decide you actually want help, let me know.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865240#Comment_3865240
I know the eye masks nearly everything, but I don't think even that affects collision data, unless I'm mistaken? My point was more focused around intangibility, and how absolutely awful BHVR's track record is for collision data (especially alterations) in this game. Just imagine someone who has everything you mentioned with all of the same limitations, yet they can keep running in between another survivor and the killer while invisible causing the attacks to randomly whiff because the game straight up gets confused. As a bonus the killer can't even see the survivor messing with the data to even have direct feedback that they are whats causing the issue.
Its not that its a bad idea and I think the intention and considerations are both sound, I just don't trust BHVR to pull it off in a way that wouldn't cause even more issues. Nothing against any specific devs, but in a game with the current aim dressing still present and things like crouch tech going unchecked (as well as the plucking petals stance on the various hug techs in the game's past and present) I don't see it happening in the way it would be intended.
It's definitely possible, but yes, I don't trust BHVR's code.
I think Keys still remove collision, no? There is SOME precedent for removing Survivor collision in-game
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865018#Comment_3865018
I see this intangibility idea come up a lot, and it wouldn't be too bad if it weren't for the terrible "aim dressing" system in the game. You could temporarily delete an actor from the game and it would still find a way to snap to them instead of an intended target. Its not a bad idea and your version especially covers a lot of avenues of abuse, but I don't see them being able to program it in a way that wouldn't inadvertently completely break elsewhere and subsequently open an unintentional exploit.
One of the Vecna items already does this, I think
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865139#Comment_3865139
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865152#Comment_3865152
I don't wanna start a fight or nothing with you guys, but there is a similar thread in your language here that is confusing...
Tunneling and Slugging are basekit and designed? As in a mechanic built into the killer? This is like saying standing behind a rock and staying out of sight is basekit for survivors... it's not part of the kit, it's a tactic/strategy you use your abilities to employ. This might sound like nit picking, but the distinction here is the difference between actual rules of the game and just players using their basekit mechanics to play within those rules... tunneling and slugging are strategies that come from those mechanics, not mechanics themselves, and the reason they are in the game is because they are not inherently bad/evil ideas in all scenarios to do.
I'm also picking you up cause the phrase "bad design" always bothers me, because it is usually a buzz word people throw around and is often not explained and certainly not valid... what bad design are we talking about exactly?
Tunnelling is a byproduct of the fact the killer can kill a survivor after 3 hooks, and the obviously logical understanding that 3 players is not as strong as 4 players. There is also the logic that healthy survivors have 2 health states, unhooked survivors have 1, which again makes logical sense. Tunnelling isn't something designed into the game, it is a strategy developed by players by intelligently interpreting the rules of the trial. Would it be better if all hook stages were shared by all survivors and everyone only had 1 health state, and being injured/healing only meant the difference between making noise and not? Where one weak player can cost the team all of their hooks really quickly and the killer can kill you off a single chase after bullying the weak link all game? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to tunneling?
Slugging is also not designed into the game, it is a strategy born as a byproduct of logically interpretting that a downed survivor cannot interact with anything until picked up by another survivor and moves much more slowly. Recognising an opportunity to slug, and accounting for the respective risk vs. reward is a strategic gamble on the killers part, where if 2 players are in close proximity where you can reasonably score a hit on both of them, why would you not slug if the opportunity is there to catch 3 survivors at the same time? If you take too long downing the second survivor you can lose the first and spent an additonal 30s+ for still only 1 hook stage. Would it be better if the moment the killer downs a survivor they are automatically forced to walk to the survivor and instantly pick up? Doesn't that require the removal of pallet and flashlight saves completely and reduce the available interactions and skill expression of survivors? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to slugging?
When it comes to perks countering strategies, couldn't we just as easily say this about any decently strong perk, item or add-on?
E.g. Sprint Burst - Counters the strategy of approaching the gen from the side with the shortest distance to the tile/unspent resources so the survivor has to run to a less safe side. SB however allows the survivor to move fast enough to make it to almost any tile before the killer catches up... Isn't the fact the killer isn't rewarded for playing intelligently here because this perk exists an example of bad design?
Obviously I'm giving an asinine example, but if you're going to say perks shouldn't be used to counter a strategy, you're gonna have to tell me why this stupid example is fine and tunneling/OTR and slugging/Unbreakable isn't.
Allowing facecamping was poor design in that BHVR did not make it impossible to do.
Tunneling and slugging are both strong playstyles and unpleasant to go against. They punish Solo Q significantly harder than SWF and often require either extreme coordination or perks to effectively counter. That is poor design.
Adding in safeguards, like a faster bleedout option after X seconds, or something for tunneling is ideal.
The SB example works…except that you can leave and come back, thereby negating the perk.
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Included, but depends on the Killer.
Trapper with basekit old Corrupt? Sure. Blight with basekit old Corrupt? No thanks.
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Players should not be forced to bring perks to compensate for poor design.