Pulsar
Pulsar
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892792#Comment_3892792
No, you can see where they are placed.
Hm.
Still, this is asking a lot from the…creatures that reside in Solo Q.
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I thought that was only when other Survivors were carrying them?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892774#Comment_3892774
Ok no, as a very, very, very addicted slinger main xenos hitbox is not even close to slinger, part of why I hate playing xeno is you cannot hit between little holes and gaps which slinger CAN. I would compare it even closer to huntress, like it is massive compared to slinger.
Lets say a sur ivor was as dense as lead, somehow ignore the beeping of turrets(which are loud af even if you are not close to them) and got surprised by xeno, then got hit by tail because as you said they werent close to a turret, they go to where they know a turret will be and xeno has to STILL break it. So you didnt waste the initial tine, you did it mid chase, the sum of time is still the same.
And if the survivor is not running to loops with turrets against xeno, then im sorry to tell you but those players would lose against the tutorial trapper bot.
I can't remember at this point, can you see the turrets as a Survivor?
And as someone who played Nemesis religiously, his hitbox and Tail are (or were) much better than Tentacle ever was.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892782#Comment_3892782
But again, the point of this is for them to ask for feedback, and we are giving it, and you are saying "well ignore that one because there is no way it happens"
I see your point, I believe you are correct.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892772#Comment_3892772
I literally cannot even with you at this point, usually you are survivor sided in your bias but this is insane.
75% longer to get knocked out of power in exchange it takes 1500% longer before heat starts disappearing and 1250% longer before the heat goes away is not worth it, and does literally the opposite of what they want. Bad survivors who can't chain turrets are still gonna be bad and get hit, but good survivors who can and communicate obliterate this killer who will now effectively have no power.
If you read my other comment, which I know you did because you responded to it, you'd know that I am ignoring that change because there is no realistic way it goes live.
What will likely go live is a watered-down version of it, in exchange for the other buffs listed. I'm honestly not convinced that they didn't miss a decimal point in the 15s. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 1.5 seconds delay, not great still needs changed, but it'd be more in-line with the other numbers.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892769#Comment_3892769
Thus is literally the point we are saying this. They are asking for feedback and we are giving it.
OP ignored the positive changes and said Xeno was worse than Nemesis.
Xeno is not worse than Nemesis, even if all of these changes went live.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892766#Comment_3892766
The tail hitbox is worse than the tentacle, has less range and it also breaks pallets, the distance the first tentacle hit gives you is comparable to the distance you get when xeno has to destroy a turret before chasing you (and they arent hindered btw).
Hitbox is smaller, closer to Deathslinger, meaning you can drag it over loops and get hits. Nemesis breaks pallets in Tier II, which he only gets after giving people a speed boost.
Why would Xeno have to destroy a turret? Most Survivors do not sit right next to a turret at all times. It is more likely that Xeno gets an easy first hit and a difficult second hit.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892763#Comment_3892763
Its not massive, you really should try playing xeno, if you aren't running the flame reduction, or the turret range reduction it is impossible to start getting hit by a turret and hit it before it knocks you out of your power. This effectively makes it so you lose you power guaranteed after the survivor runs to 2 turrets. Which good survivors are always running you near a turret. And keep in mind that when not in the power, xeno HAS NO POWER.
Yes it gives you more time, but it takes FIFTEEN SECONDS before the heat starts disappearing at a rate of 2/s instead of 25/s. That is not a good thing.
I did play Xeno.
Pretty sure this change gives you more than the Helmet does currently.
Two turret strat requires either communication, which most players do not have, or a LOT of time setting up which means you are probably winning time investment wise.
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@ARTRA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892705#Comment_3892705
Thing is.
0,5 faster tunnel is not the same as 95 seconds of cooldown if you have a lot of fire charges.
You need 15 seconds to start cooldown with 160 charges at 2charges/seconds you will need 95 seconds to cooldown (wich is insane).
Is literally better let yourself burn then go to a tunnel to reset your power.
If you ask me, it makes no sense that best strat is letting yourself cook. Is like asking trapper to step in their own traps to reset it.
That nerf is way meaningfull that 0.5 tunnel time and stuff like that.
At least i would consider tunnels also cool you down fast like power. It makes you waste time (good for survivors) but you can do something about your fire levels(good for alien) because right now you literally cant.
At least on paper of course, we need to try it first but i see this as a big nerf if you ask me.
@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892705#Comment_3892705
Yes, there are some nice changes here.
The reduced penalty for missing the tail is also nice. Especially since the tail is much more reliable at destroying turrets, and destroying a turret with the tail counts as a missed tail attack.
The increased resistance to burning is also nice. If my math is right, it will be more resistant to being burned basekit than it currently is with the Emergency Helmet addon. I don't know what they're going to do to the Emergency Helmet.
The time it takes to get out of the tunnels will make it feel more fluid to play, though I don't really consider it to be a big deal as it is.
But you have to understand just how big a deal the nerfs are in comparison.
At the moment, good Xenos are rarely burned out of their power as it stands already. Increasing the resistance to the fire won't change that. The way turrets are used by good survivors, and understand that they will still be used like this, is to place them in loops where they act like protection hits. Survivors who know how to play against Xeno will be setting up the turrets in such a way that they can be chained together by a survivor holding W between loops.
Even with a good reaction time, the absurdly slow rate at which you recover from the burn now ensures you will eventually be forced out of your power by survivors who use them like this. Even with good reaction time, you'll still get slightly burned each time you need to destroy a turret.
Effectively, these changes do nothing to help survivors who are already bad at playing against Xeno, since they won't chain the turrets together or know how to set them up properly. It will make good survivors significantlly more effective than they already are against Xeno.
@beater15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892705#Comment_3892705
"I'm no Xeno expert" yes I think that's clear. These "buffs" nowhere near make up for the nerfs. Xeno is already sitting at the lowest kill rate, it's the only killer below 50% and 6th lowest pick rate. It'll just be easier to counter him, more so than it already is. These changes do make it easier for beginners to handle Xeno, which I think is probably the main reason for these changes. Good players will have an even easier time which is already laughable.
I discounted the fact that it takes 13x longer because I think it is obvious that it will be changed to something more reasonable. I don't generally consider things that I know are irrelevant, for example, the attack sound increases.
They aren't going to keep the 13x increase to cooldown. It will likely end up being 2x or 3x. High enough that turrets have a purpose, low enough that they don't keep him perma locked out.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892705#Comment_3892705
These buff do not compesate the nerfs, for example xeno can exit tunnels 300% faster, doesnt matter as you can hear him aproaching and prerun, also its not like it exits on you, there are fixed spots where you know it will exit. So a nothing buff really.
I am happy they are looking at xeno and it is likely they will buff him after ptb, but thinking these buffs outweight the massive tail nerfs its not it.
Also, while yes the tail attack is fast, with this change there is literally zero reason to play this fella over nemesis, like the amount of time save in chase by nemesis is way better than the mobility xeno has, and the attack which was already a budget tentacle is now even worse.
Except that the Tail is better than Tentacle.
Nemesis does take two hits to damage, plus he gives a speedboost on the first non-damaging hit. Xeno does damage instantly, retains quite a bit of movement speed and the Tail can be dragged over objects.
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@SummerBBQDwight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892705#Comment_3892705
All the other buffs? Only buffs are missed attack and tunnel exit related buffs… the rest is all nerfs.
"Other than the buffs, everything else is a nerf."
No kidding. Also, there's the massive increase to how much flame is needed to break him out of Runner mode. Pretty sure that gives Xeno a lot more time to destroy turrets
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[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
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Because it is bad game design.
Tunneling provides a crutch for many Killers to fall back on, this isn't an issue itself. There are plenty of "crutches". The issue stems from how strong tunneling is and how much the game rewards you for doing it. If you can kill someone prior to four gens being finished (2 gens remaining), you will win 999/1000 as a competent Killer. Couple this with the fact that Survivors need to rely on perks for anti-tunnel, with inconsistent effectiveness and you have a extremely strong strategy that is not only difficult to counter but will also win you many games.
Slugging is more recent. Some people have decided that hooking isn't viable anymore because gen regression was nerfed. This is funny, because people still hooked in 2017 when it was Ruin or bust for regression and Survivors were ludicrously OP. Regardless, slugging can be countered via communication…..which most of the playerbase does not have access to. All slugging does is let you punch down on Solo Q and Duos, which a lot of Killers already do. Now, opportunistic slugging? Is it annoying? Sure, but I don't see an issue with it. It is a part of spreading pressure.
Camping is similar to tunneling. It's pretty strong when used efficiently and is a crutch. Proxy'ing forces at least two Survivors into doing nothing, with a likely third on the way. It also ruins the match of the person on hook, as they have basically zero way to play the game. The most efficient thing to do is for the other Survivors to ignore that Survivor on hook and let them die. That is horrific design, it promotes zero interaction between the Survivors and Killers, plus it ruins the game of the person on hook.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I've always thought that commons in the bloodweb should be 1000, uncommons 2000, rares 3000, and so on. Not whatever half-measure math they did to get the current prices. Nice clean numbers would be better, and so would a higher BP cap. That's something I want to dive into, because there are actually people who supported the BP cap being at a million, let alone 2 million.
The rationale behind keeping the cap so low, as said by its advocates is that 1) The devs want people to play only sometimes but spread throughout many months (or something) instead of a lot all within a week, and 2) Killers shouldn't be able to over-level their stuff. Both reasonings ought to be trumped by the simple fact that it hampers the player experience, instead of improving it, because you're literally just capping how much a player can save up. They can play 100 matches after they hit the cap, and won't get any of their deserved match reward currency because of your arbitrary rule.
Anyway, Rationale 1 is wrong because having a lower BP cap doesn't guarantee player retention, or monthly player numbers, any more than a high BP cap would. But it's an annoying inconvenience, having to stop your streak of matches just to spend BP so that you don't waste your hard earned currency. For a lot of people, they'll spend their BP before they get off the game, or start with that the next time they get on, so you're actually encouraging them to stop playing (when they'd otherwise keep going) because you're accelerating them towards their natural stopping point.
Rationale 2 is even more ridiculous, that killers shouldn't be able to Prestige 3 the new killer quickly to test the lvl 3 version of perks, on all their killers, or use the new killer's add-ons, because it's "not fair" to the learning survivors. News flash: the killer is still learning as well, and even if the Tier 3 versions of those perks or those really strong add-ons are a lot to deal with, you're just gonna have to face up against it anyway as survivor, eventually. Why not start learning the counterplay now? It just makes no sense, the pushback against raising the BP cap. If it got raised to 999,999,999 like it should be, tomorrow, nothing in the game would change, except for better player satisfaction because their option to save up is no longer actively hampered.
They could also do BP bonuses way more often. There should be a 2x or 3x BP weekend... every weekend. It draws players in, and it gives them more BP. It's a win/win for the devs and the players. Or make the BP offering a separate slot from the other offerings. There's so much they could do. I really don't need all the extra BP anymore, because I'm currently focusing on getting multiple characters to Prestige 30. But other players aren't so well-off. I remember how long the grind was.
I agree, 100%.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891671#Comment_3891671
I’m on the same page, but the community managers keep dragging me back in The Fog. I logged in yesterday to redeem a code because the banner was so beautiful and played a little while I had the game open. At the end, I checked and I somehow only have one tomb challenge left in Level 1 and Level 2. I’m not very good at staying retired from the game if I’m going to gold a tome.
I’m definitely still sitting at the campfire with everyone, though. 🔥 If you got a wish granted for something drastic, what would that be?
I was never interested in tomes, especially after BHVR's writing got more and more…questionable.
I really couldn't tell you. I suppose I'll know if I see it, but I guess it'd have to be a dream license, a significant change to an upcoming license or seeing the game actually innovate.
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Still retired unless something drastic changes.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890338#Comment_3890338
And we kind of accept that. We're just looking for ways to make survivors perpetually on gens less painful. The survivor who pushed a gen injured can be punished, but that's only if the killer abandons everything to go straight there and down them before they reset. Survivors don't mess around with healing speed; you've got like a 15-second window. And there's no point in not tunneling if the person doesn't have DS/OTR, but how would you know they have it until you get hit by them? That's the problem. You're playing around perks that might not be there.
If they solo heal, they aren't doing gens for almost half a minute.
If they get healed, TWO Survivors are now, funny enough, not doing gens.
If they do not heal, they are extremely vulnerable.
Plus, if they touch a gen, all their perks deactivate as well as my proposed system
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890373#Comment_3890373
lolol. put that there because I knew you would nitpick it and just ignore the rest of my argument.
im convinced none of the people who disagree with my stance (that spreading hooks is a bad strategy) actually have an argument for why its good, because nearly every person who disagrees with me has either tried to gaslight me and my knowledge of the game, ignored what I said, or in your case just nitpick one random thing and ignore the core of my argument. some have even done all three!You put that there because you are out of actual arguments other than the obvious, which is that you simply wish for things to continue how they are, because they benefit you.
Rather, you'd ignore my points and make ad hominem attacks.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890365#Comment_3890365
it shows the hypocrisy between survivor efficiency vs killer efficiency.
apparently we need literal godmode for survivors who are unhooked (when being hooked is a result of their own misplays lmao) and if anyone disagrees then they should just "not tunnel"
just pretty sick of people suggesting the most obnoxious things in order to prevent the killer from doing their objective efficiently when I never hear anything that stops the survivors from doing the sameIf you think that in the year 2025 that being hooked is somehow a "misplay" on the Survivors part, I really think that says everything about your argument.
It is not 2017 DBD anymore. Getting hooked is a part of normal gameplay. Survivors are not meant to be able to run the Killer the entire game. Being hooked is not a misplay, just like a Survivor being unhooked is not a misplay from the Killer.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3890338#Comment_3890338
basekit deadlock… if you simply dont genrush, this system will never affect you
What exactly did that statement accomplish?
You have managed to completely ignore all of my points, which only serves to hurt your own argument.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889370#Comment_3889370
always found it odd that people think endurance/otr/DS is fair because it only disables when you touch an objective.
your suggestion of giving survivors godmode after they get unhooked is obnoxious and absurd because who cares if it only disables if they do an objective? so they can get unhooked, run to a gen and wait. if the killer tries to get them… well they cant because the survivor has godmode. so the killer goes away and the survivor does the gen.
conspicuous actions were needed, but they do not automatically make these perks fair because the perk only disables when you've actually done an objective. it doesn't disable when youre planning to do an objective. so if a survivor gets unhooked and starts running towards a gen its a lose-lose. you either try to stop them from doing it and eat whatever benefits they have from the perk, or you go away and they do the gen.Have you considered chasing the person who unhooked them?
I'm not sure how I can make the intention any more clear. If you simply, idk, don't tunnel; this system will never affect you.
Someone is going to do gens, that's kind of inevitable. It is better for you if someone injured does gens.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889485#Comment_3889485
There are perks that assist you with your plays but others just straight up bail you out
That doesn't make sense though. Every perk would be a second chance perk.
If I use Resi to vault a window and the extra X% saves me from getting hit, that's a second chance perk by your definition.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889371#Comment_3889371
I agree that 99's a gen for a whole match is ludicrous. Not sure where you got that idea from, but yeah….probably a terrible idea. Naturally, doing a 99 decoy gen is only relevant while there's PR triggers available. Once the decoy eats the 4 PR hits, then leaving it 99'd is pretty pointless.
Why quit streaming? I've considered doing it myself. I usually just do yt videos. I'm a bit too asocial for streamer content - I play too much for the game and less for a "crowd", ha.
As for a team communication, like I mentioned, the game is balanced around SWF in mind, so communication is expected. When solo queue comes into play, it throws everything off. I think we can ALL (I'm looking at you, killer mains) agree that solo queue is inherently at a disadvantage. I'd imagine a lot of killer kills are from taking advantage of that inherent disadvantage. If the solo queue disadvantage was somehow removed, I'd imagine kill rates would likely be far, far less lower than they are.
As for me playing vs players worse than me, you can say that about every player in the game - the MMR sometimes works, and sometimes it completely fails. I'll say I've faced off against One Pump Willie and such, so I'd imagine if you consider him worse than me, it's quite the compliment…so thanks, I guess? Outside of a few popular names I've faced, most of my matches are P60-P100 squads. Sometimes I get a few full blown 4 man P100 squads, but let's face it, you can still have poor players that are P100.
Try hopping back into streaming. If you're as good as you claim to me, I'd swing by sometime. Watching someone better then the professional dbd players would be quite the treat. I'm always up for improving.
I quit the game, actually. I still keep up with it, and I like to talk to people here, but I don't play anymore and probably won't play significantly again unless something changes.
Since it is not possible to completely remove the advantage from SWF, it's likely that Solo Q may only receive a 5% bump. The difference between High MMR 4-man and High MMR Solo is about 10%, but the biggest advantage for SWF, imo, is being able to pick your teammates.
Indeed, P100 means nothing. I had a P100, but I was not a good Survivor. Willie is good, but I always thought he was a specialist, maybe he has expanded.
It's been about 8 or 9 months since I played DBD, I think and probably a year or more since I played consistently. I'm somewhat sure I could win most of my matches, but I don't have much of a reason to go back to DBD, at this point
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889370#Comment_3889370
Absolutely cannot exist in end game would be broken also if this system were to exist the endurance mechanic would have to go
Yes, that is why I said disabled in EGC or after gens are done.
Endurance system stays after gens are done to prevent hooked Survivors from just being dead, but otherwise yes, it can go. Serves no purpose.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I swear I'm the only player on here who's a decent surv but a lousy killer, and almost everyone else is apparently top-level 27000 high MMR monsters getting nothing but super sweaty crack killers and super sweaty 4-man bully squads every match.
We both know I was a lousy Survivor too lmao
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Every bug returns, simply a fact of DBD.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889371#Comment_3889371
I'm convinced you're OhTofu's Forum account or something. All you do is give his opinions verbatim, call for killer nerfs constantly, and argue that broken stuff on survivor was actually fun and fair like old Dead Hard and MFT.
Old DH was pretty awful, up there with old DS. I don't like making perks reliant on ping though.
MFT, well, I never really had an issue with it honestly. Broke up the meta a bit at the time.
So there's that disproven, and easily so.
Can't say I watch OhTofu. I played in his scrim nights once upon a time, but I haven't caught a stream in at least a year. I do not like how the pendulum has swung towards Killer over the years. It did not feel good while I was still playing, and I am sure I would still hate it if I picked up Killer again now.
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Enduring Spirit Fury?
Always a good one.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889334#Comment_3889334
I mean, you can disagree with me all you like. My basis is based off of strategies and techniques of some of the most experienced players in the game. I just took those as a learning process and applied them to my own games and it has made a tremendous difference in win rates. If you disagree with those players who practically bleed DBD, then hey, maybe you know better than them. Perhaps you could join some of their teams and show them the ropes. There's room for improvement no matter the level of experience. If you genuinely know better that who many consider to be the best players in the game, then that is incredibly impressive. Should start steaming, you'd make one heck of a following.
I did stream, on occasion. Some people here watched it and saw what I did, they have some basis for why I think the way I do.
The average game held nothing of any note for me. No challenges, no enjoyment, no learning. So, I started playing in scrim nights for a bit, which was enlightening. I competed in one of the Community Cups, didn't get far enough to be streamed, I don't think, but fun all the same. Played against a couple good comp teams in pubs, didn't exactly blow through them, but I did perform well.
All this to say, I know what I am talking about. I have not seen anyone employ that strategy to any real boon. It is rather like old PGTW. It would often let you "win harder" and turn games you would've won into landslides. I have seen it done in comp, and against me in scrims. When it worked, the Killer was already on the back foot and likely going to lose. It had little to no effect often though, as committing one person to babysit a gen is a tall task amongst opponents of equal skill.
I hardly think that anyone will recommend Solo Q to 99 a gen for the whole match. That would simply be ludicrous. A team with no communication can hardly pull that off consistently. If you are doing that, you are not helping your team in the rest of the match, which is not great.
Seems likely to me that you are simply playing against players worse than you.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889256#Comment_3889256
I think your just basically wanting unhookeds just to have an invulnerable state where killers can't down them period until they interact with an objective
Ideally, yes.
Intangible and invisible Survivor that can't use items until they progress the game, in which case they lose those previously mentioned abilities and/or if EGC triggers.
Can't be tunneled or slugged, but also can't progress the game until they choose. Fine tuning needs to be done, but it satisfies both parties. Survivors don't get a free I get to do gens 4 free or hang around for a save button
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888913#Comment_3888913
If you're not seeing it in your matches, then you're likely not in the mmr where people are taking advantage of the hard counter. You'd greatly benefit your team if you'd set up and run the counter yourself, though if you're not in a swf, the others may not realize what you're doing and accidentally sabotage the team allowing PR to affect vital gens again. One of the problems with solo queue is a lack of communication which is something I feel most of us wants to have addressed. I know they refuse to do voice chat, but I'd love to see some pre-made text prompts you can do (ie hit chat key, then 1 is gen related which then prompts other choices such as finish gen, don't finish gen, I'm doing gen, etc...) for example, you could hit V (for chat) 1 1 when aiming at a gen and it'll say Finish that gen. Or V 1 2 for don't finish that gen. Etc...
The game is balanced around SWFs, they generally innately have communication. Adding a chat kind of pre-made comms would allow people to communicate in a limited form to/from solo queue players. This would end up making survivors stronger than they already are, so BHVR would have to keep an eye on how it affects killer gameplay. I have a feeling a lot of killer kills are due to solo queue kills with their inability to properly interact with the team in a way the game is balanced around (SWF).
Eh, Killers still kill over 50% against "High MMR 4-mans"
Likewise, whilst I played, I was winning the VAST majority of my matches, even against competitive players like those on Misery. It would be statistically impossible for me to not be in the highest bracket, not that it means anything since MMR is useless.
In competitive, this was also not a winning strategy, in most matches. It merely wasted Survivor time that they often could not spare. It only helps you win harder, as it were.
Suffice to say, I am not convinced of anything in your explanation except that you think you know quite a bit and are more sure of yourself than even I would be, in your stead.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888888#Comment_3888888
Then expose and reveal the auras of the two survivors that aren't unhooking. The unhooker and unhooked should be safe that will incentive killers to go after the others
4 seconds of aura reveal, done.
Oops, Killer will still tunnel because tunneling is absurdly strong and extremely difficult to counter.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888997#Comment_3888997
Sounds like the players should develop gamesense and understand where the chases are happening instead of crutching on a perk that plays the game for them
Not entirely sure how they are supposed to do that when they have no information.
You are running blind in Solo Q. It seems I have my answer though, you do resent not being able to steamroll Solos.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
I love me some forum posters that will talk about how killers need to get skilled and get some gamesense but in the same breath defend Windows of Noobertunity to the death despite it literally playing the game for survivors
To be fair, WoO doesn't do much for SWF. It does a lot to help Solo Q though, who may not know where their teammates have decided to drop pallets.
Unless you are upset about not being able to punch down on Solo Q anymore, WoO is not the right thing to blame.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888692#Comment_3888692
No worries, you'll figure it out eventually with more experience. Great way to essentially force the killer into having one less viable perk in the match. One of the problems we have at the moment are players who go up against a particular playstyle and refuse to adept to counter it - expecting to play how they always play every time to always work for them then cry foul when throwing themselves at a wall didn't work. That goes for both sides. Survivors playing a particular way - the killer needs to adjust accordingly. Killer playing a certsin way, the survivors need to adjust accordingly. If PR is being run, and survivors keep throwing themselves at a center gen while its constantly getting nuked to 0% are likely going to fail. Ghostface in the match? Dont just keep your heads down and staring at the gen - keep a keen eye out and have one survivor dedicated to keeping tabs on him and revealing him. The matches success is always about adaptability. You're welcome to watch tournaments of some of the best players - they all play VERY differently depending who the killer is and what he's running. One squad wouldn't even touch a gen unless someone had eyes on ghostie, for example.
As someone with that all elusive "more experience", the only time I have ever seen that employed was during scrims and "competitive" matches.
I cannot recall ever having seen that strategy employed to ANY success in pubs.
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@hrr0r62x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888888#Comment_3888888
Why should Survivors unhook in the killer's face? And it's not a free down when they have basekit Endurance.
Often times, when to unhook is not really up to Survivors. Killers will often patrol hooks, meaning that no matter when an unhook happens, the Killer will be close by.
Likewise, basekit Endurance only means you can't get turbo farmed like the old days. It does still disable DH, OTR etc etc from working when the Killer hits you off of hook.
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I have a screenshot of a lobby with names that I cannot repeat, much less repost.
Early DBD was wild.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888880#Comment_3888880
Why should survs always get a 100% safe unhook?
Why should Killers get a free down?
Killers should be incentivized to go for other people, but that hasn't worked, so they are finally doing something.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888138#Comment_3888138
The concept of fun is subjective, and I've already said how I find it fun that requires no win or loss. And like I said I could lose 20 matches in a row and die 20 times in a row and still gain plenty of BP, still complete my challenges, still enjoy they match. See how long I can survive. Survivor should be a struggle to survive and escape which it is. Makes no sense to have 4 man team that doesn't struggle to escape a killer. Where is the urgency, the fear, the feeling of dread as a survivor if they ascape frequently? It has to be a less common occurrence to escape to have the feeling of overcoming the odds, to feel that sense of dread when attempting to evade the killer. That's what the survivor role is supposed to be, not this warped version that people seem to want where survivors can escape frequently, loop the killer with ease. They literally expect and often do walk up to the killer drop a tbag and run away so they can loop a pallet. In what world should survivors feel that fearless against a killer? This is what survivors want, this is what they find fun and this is why they go next when they come across a killer they know they can't make a mockery out of.
Perfect example, is when im Myers. They hate it that I stalk and don't chase, they hate it that they know they can't chance getting in my face to drop a tbag in front of me because they get a Mori if they try. Same goes for nurse, they know they don't stand much chance against a nurse if in a chase and can't drop tbags near a pallet as easy so they go next to go against a killer they can make a mockery of.
Once again, it sounds like you just want to fulfill a power fantasy as Killer, not play a game.
Fun is subjective, but it is clear what is normal and what is not. Nobody likes to win or lose all the time, people enjoy being challenged every once in a while.
Survivor has never been what you described, except in very early 2016 before anyone knew what they were doing. It will never go back to being that way, and that is a good thing. If DBD had been that way, the game would not be here, nearly ten years later.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888197#Comment_3888197
Tunneling is just a natural part of the game. On a team of survivors not all survivors are going to be of exactly the same skill level. Someone might be having a really good day, someone might be having a really bad one. A killer is going to find the weakest person on a team and down them, and then because they are the weakest player on the team they are more likely to make more mistakes and be downed more. Its not a malicious thing. If you were playing killer and you had at least 1 and probably more gens pop by the time you hooked your first survivor are you going to pick the strongest person on the other team to commit to or are you going to pick some of the weaker players?
Gens go by way way way too fast for killers to just hook random survivors if the team they are playing against is good and they are being efficient on gens. There is just no way to do it. As frustrating as being tunneled out can be, it is often just necessesary for killers to keep up against good survivors unless you want every match to devolve into playing against Nurse and Blight only.
If people want for a meta to exist where killers dont tunnel as much survivors must be willing to accept certain concessions to keep the game fair. Either gens need to have far, far more ticks to completion or the slowdown that killers have needs to be a lot stronger, and or the killer needs to be able to use a 3 gen to slow the game down to a point where they can catch up.
Every single time I have ever brought this up, people just gaslight me and tell me i'm wrong or try to shift the discussion away from that point.What would you say about the Eruption Overbrine meta?
Surely that meta was strong enough to warrant a significant decrease in tunneling?
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887367#Comment_3887367
after a day or two of leaving this thread to bake I come back and see youre still trying to argue with this person and I advise you not to.
ha I just realized ive talked to them before about this and they've done the exact same thing - just endless gaslighting.
many people in this whole thread are beyond saving, I think. they cant think outside the box at all, because the second you say something to even remotely defend tunneling youre deemed and seen as a skilless killer.
no matter how many times you tell them that the whole "spread pressure and spread hooks" strategy doesn't work against any good survivor team they will just continue to gaslight you and say things like "you just aren't good enough and haven't practiced" or "you shouldn't win every game" they never actually address the issue - spreading hooks is too weak so tunneling is rampant. if you nerf tunneling without buffing the spreading hooks play style, then that's a problem and people will complain.or, alternatively, you'll get someone who "plays killer alot and NEVER has to tunnel" and its like sure ok good for you, thanks for telling me that you never go against good teams ever in your life because no matter how godlike you are at this game if you are sent to eyrie as a b tier killer against cracked survivors and you willingly choose to play inefficiently then you will lose.
but oh well, I guess I should just take games like those up the ass after the only chance to win them is beaten further into the ground because im "not supposed to win every game"I am reasonably sure, and this goes for @Nomade as well, that I could return to DBD after an 8 month hiatus and still win most of my matches as Killer.
From what you are saying, that should be impossible, tunneling or no.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887763#Comment_3887763
That's the issue right there, struggling to escape, struggling to have fun. It's supposed to be a struggle, that's the point to being survivor. People only have fun when they escape and when they don't or know they can't escape they don't have fun. They are happy to sit on gens all match even tho they find it boring. They are happy to go in circles around a pallet all if it means they win. They will do the most boring things possible if it means they win and they find it fun because they win. That's why they want specific maps and specific killers, they want to win.
I think survivors should have that "win" goal removed so they can learn how to enjoy the game. Instead of playing for the win maybe play to see how long they can last while going for a particular objective or go for BP. I can play 20 survivor matches and not escape once and still have fun because I don't go into the match with the "I want to win" mindset and I don't go next.
The game is not supposed to be a power fantasy simulator for Killer.
Games are supposed to be enjoyable for both sides.
There is nothing enjoyable about losing due to no fault of your own. That is what I ultimately hated about Survivor, and why I could never get into the role fully. It doesn't matter how well you play, you could play perfectly, if even one of your teammates is subpar, you lose. I enjoyed that, as Killer, my fate was my own. True, some matches were unwinnable back in the day, but even there I always felt competitive.
To me, your statement is almost silly. "Survivors should not escape, they need to learn how to just accept losing constantly and be happy with their meager BP gains"
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887763#Comment_3887763
Fun is very subjective though. And what you might not find fun, others might. Of course there are certain killers with certain strategies that almost everyone deems unfun, and it would be nice if BHVR addressed those issues, but often people just quit out of the game because they simply don't like a killer personally which others might like. Or because they were found first. Or whatever petty reason.
I see no reason to act like there aren't a lot of petty reasons why survivors quit matches sometimes. The go next prevention might cause some frustration at the beginning, but that will hopefully become better with the anti-tunneling, anti-camping and anti-slugging changes. But it will also improve the game already for survivors, not having teammates that give up because of some petty reason.
Also, the game has a lot of balanced maps if you ask me, and some maps are still survivor sided as well.
There are petty reasons to leave, but most people are not like that.
If they are like that, this system could kill the game.
I believe that most people DC or suicide because they view sticking around to have no positives, only negatives. I certainly, in all my time in DBD, have felt the same. Someone's dead at 4 gens? I mean, I'm not going to DC, but I'm also not going to sweat my ass off for a lost game. I wouldn't expect anyone to continue to try to win in such a scenario.
Let's face it, Solo Survivor is the most popular role and it sucks. Your odds of escaping are low, you don't get any BP to help with the insane grind, no Shards, limited Archive progress and it is often an immensely frustrating experience. There is functionally zero reward for people to play out matches that are lost. Lost matches are, objectively, a waste of time and can cause faster burnout.
On the flip side, it isn't fun as Killer either. My view is colored by the fact that I've put far too much time into Killer. Certainly though, I can recall going to release Garden of Joy or Eyrie via map offering and not being happy about it, even knowing I was probably going to win.
Addressing map offerings is a good change, for both sides. I can imagine the average Killer hates going to Eyrie still, lost matches as Killer are more profitable in an economic standpoint but can be worse from burnout. You don't really have an option to leave, unlike Survivor.
If DBD actually wants to address DC's, they need to look at making matches less one-sided and have more rewards.
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@TheArbiter said:
Well I mean i have to right?
I have to hit 100K downvotes too
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887775#Comment_3887775
I'm thinking 2018/2019 probably 2019 tbh, which is only 6 years ago at least (damn where did the time go!)
Must've been 2019, I wasn't here yet in 2018, but I remember them briefly
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887764#Comment_3887764
yeah me too, I'm hoping but then I'm always on the positive side. I can switch it off easily if we get a repeat of 2018!
oh god has it really been that long already
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It was uh not a positive form of communication lmao
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@Mandy said:
it's a test - I've also enabled some tagging
I am curious to see if it'll go better than last time lol
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887730#Comment_3887730
How do you address the reason why they go next if the reason is simply they don't get the map they want or they don't go against a killer they like? Give them the option to select map and killer? Make all maps survivor sided? Make all killers so bad survivors don't mind playing against them? The reason can't be addressed, so penalties and incentives are the way to go.
Those aren't the real reasons.
Players do that, specifically, because they feel the game is no longer worth playing, in your example. Killer brings a map offering to stack the odds in their favor, Survivor brings a map offering to stack the odds in their favor. As of right now, the game is Killer-favored and a lot of Survivor players are struggling, both to escape and to have fun. Killers don't seem to be struggling to kill, but I have seen a lot of general burnout from them too.
Look at it this way. As a Survivor loading into a match, you see a Killer map offering to go to a strong map. What are the positives in going into a game already stacked against you? Brownie points for losing? You won't get any BP, you'll lose rank, probably no Archive progress and the game will be frustrating and make you not want to play.
At least for Killer, you'll probably get BP and Archives done. Not much better, but it is something, at least.
As for your solutions…most maps are either Killer-sided or neutral. Making maps larger and giving Killers a speed boost (ala Blighted Serum) would be preferable to me.
Unfortunately, the Killer issue will not be going anywhere. There are a lot of unpleasant Killers to face and that has little to do with strength. Sure, a god Nurse is not fun, but neither is a camping Bubba. Slugging Twins, microboxing Pinhead, etc etc. There's just a lot of unfun Killers and there's nothing to really be done about it.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887624#Comment_3887624
There is a laundry list of reasons why "go next" happens and most of them are petty. A stricter system in place will prevent that.
When BHVR shows people its not cool to mess up other peoples games by adding in what they said they would such as;
*Dc Penalty applies upon going next.
*Deranked upon going next.
*A loss of all your bloodpoints for going next.
People will take it a lot more seriously.
People most of the time go next over the most silly reasons.
I can almost guarantee that will make the issue worse if we do not address why people want to go next.