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Orion
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762191#Comment_1762191
I thought you enjoyed DbD?
How dare you accuse me of such a thing?
In all seriousness, yes, I enjoy it, when it's fair. Losing because I'm being matched with rank 16 survivors isn't fair and doesn't make for an interesting trial.
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I'm going to guess "many", since most players don't read the forum. I also suspect we'll see many "bug" reports about BL "not working".
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@MadLordJack said:
Yeah, no, that's not how causal games work. This isn't Siege, it isn't Overwatch, it's Dead By Daylight. That means it gets balanced around the majority, not the minority, because it's a casual game that need to be fun more than fair.
Edit: Or, to look at it another way, people that play casual games competitively shouldn't talk about balance, since what is balanced for them will ruin everyone else's experience.
Unfair games aren't fun.
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1762126#Comment_1762126
We assume they read it.
I know they read this forum.
That's a chasm of difference.
No, I know they read it because I've spoken with them and verified that.
You assume they read this section because you conflate replying in a few threads with reading every thread and don't understand that some people with the "Dev" tag are not even directly involved with the coding side of the game - they're the ones who reply most often.
There is indeed a chasm of difference, but not in the way you thought.
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@Xbob42 said:
I don't bother with Feedback and Suggestions because in the first 11 pages there are 0 dev replies. There are multiple dev replies in the first 11 pages of general discussion, so at least I know there's a chance an actual developer will read this.
Your second point about me wanting it not equating to them put it up is strange. Obviously they don't have to listen to me. I never said they did. Why state something so self-evident to begin with?
Developers rarely - if ever - reply to feedback because there's no point. However, they do read it. Just because you don't get a reply doesn't mean they don't read it, I know that for a fact.
The fact that you keep posting this thread indicated you were not aware of that, or that you otherwise expected to be the exception to the rule. That's why I stated it.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
I've been playing Claudette and as I like to play the survivors with a select role like killers, I've been using self-care for the first time in years. I think the perk alone is still quite terrible but with Botany Knowledge and a brown medkit or so you can heal like there's no tomorrow. An 83% heal isn't perfect but thats only about 1.5 seconds more than the base heal. Sloppy butcher obviously counters this a little but you outright counter Sloppy in turn with Botany on other players.
I tried desperate measures for a while but its just too inconsistent. Faster unhooks are nice, but the healing item efficiancy combined with the flat 33% speed boost just makes Botany outright superior.
83% takes about 3 seconds more than base, not 1.5.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1761453#Comment_1761453
I wasn't dead though?
Neither were you resurrected by an extradimensional evil entity with the power to do basically anything within its own realm. For example, age someone up.
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Try putting this thread in Feedback and Suggestions so the devs are notified. Us lowly forumgoers have no say in this, which is why it's baffling to me that you've apparently only put this thread in Feedback and Suggestions once.
However, keep in mind that just because you want something doesn't mean the devs have to do as you say. Furthermore, even if they do want to do it, they already have other things in the pipeline that take precedence over changing something that, while mildly annoying, has worked fine for the past four years.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Might just be me being paranoid, but... How do we know they haven't already done that?
Because killers would've noticed it. Bloodlust isn't exactly easy to miss.
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One thing at a time. The goal is to find out how the absence of bloodlust affects the rest of the game. Changing more than that would ruin the experiment.
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You report it in-game and send a support ticket with evidence. If it's a felony, as you say, then you could also contact the police.
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The slugging? No. Forcing people into a corner to down them again and again? Yes.
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Seems like he was farming.
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A lot of good tips about the game, so here's one for real-life:
While adding salt to water will raise its boiling temperature, the difference is irrelevant with the salt concentrations that we use when cooking. Thus, whether you add salt before or after the water is boiling is utterly irrelevant, so long as it has time to fully dissolve.
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@chieften333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756116#Comment_1756116
Sadly that is the only way to technically counter it. Which feeds into it more than anything.
That's not a counter at all. You're not mitigating the effects of the combo, you're not preventing it from activating at all. In fact, you're purposefully activating it.
@notameatybassriff98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756116#Comment_1756116
and pop technically cant be countered other than genrush and Repressed Alliance which nobody uses
That sounds like a reason to use Repressed Alliance.
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@Deadeye said:
Just a note on the term "debuff". It is basically "reducing" not just debuff. Because reduction can be a buff. Like pig dash charge addons reduce the charge time, but they are also multiplied, not added.
But yes, at OP: if you want a 16 second Selfcare, you would need a 100% speed boost in total, to compensate the 50% speed loss from Selfcare. Which would be almost achieved with Botany + Resilience + 4 stacks of Desperate Measures
That's a very good point, thank you.
PS: If anyone wants this in a mathematical expression, I can do that in a few minutes, just leave a comment on my profile.
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@myers_obsession said:
Noticed that too. It's a shame. I hope it's a bug and they use the updated ones again.
I hope so too, because the graphical update was amazing. It'd be a shame to take several steps back now.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754563#Comment_1754563
Does he really though? Im all for adjust lunges and speeds to match height and weapons. Give pyramid head and oni longer swings at the cost of reduced attack speed and/or movement speed.
I guess making everything generic is the easy way out but killers are all different and may not hurt for them all to feel a little different.
From what I understand, the devs are worried that would make the game too complicated. They want the basics to be the same among killers to make them easier to play.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754572#Comment_1754572
Could you explain fully?
Which part are you having trouble with? I'm not quite sure how I can explain it further.
EDIT: Just for the record, I am quite tired, so that might be part of the problem.
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@lucid4444 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754532#Comment_1754532
you really believe they read that subforum? lol
Why wouldn't they? There's literally no drawback to it. Then there are all the suggestions that have been incorporated, in one form or another, into the game, which I think kinda proves they do read the section.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754552#Comment_1754552
Then don't rescue in front of the killer, or use borrowed time
Neither of those are in control of the person being unhooked, which is the problem. If DS is to become a perk that prevents the killer from coming after you right after you're unhooked, then it can't be deactivated if someone else makes a bad save.
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@Seanzu said:
Both survivors get downed at hook, killer hooks the saviour and deactivates your protection perk, poggers, this sounds super exciting.
Yeah, I have to agree with SenzuDuck here. I also proposed/supported this idea a long time ago, until what he said here was pointed out to me.
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Latency.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754549#Comment_1754549
I'll leave it to others to comment - could be useful! - but I understand it myself now! You and int3r4ct actually have the same exact formula - I had just copied yours over wrong when I thought there was a discrepancy.
You and int3r4ct actually have the same exact formula
As we should, because that is the correct way to calculate interaction speeds.
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Would it help if I put this in the form of a mathematical equation in a PDF file?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754506#Comment_1754506
Yeah, I could pack it all into one expression, but this simplifies things. You can't do something like 1/(1+(-.5+.33+.56+.09)) or you'll get the wrong result.
Also, as I'm taking a look closer at your post again, can you link me to the dev reply on your post? I'm wondering if int3r4ct's video and the general [Base Action Speed]/(1+modifier) formula isn't correct. For example, if I use the method from your post to do the Self Care + Botany Knowledge + Desperate Measures (four injures) + Resilience calculation I'd get a slightly different result than the 16.2 seconds I get with int3r4ct's method:
16*(1-0.5)*(1+0.56+0.09+0.33) = 15.8 seconds
You're multiplying the number of charges required by the interaction speed instead of dividing the former by the latter. This is why I calculated the interaction speed first and then divided the number of charges by the interaction speed. If you calculate the buffs and debuffs first, then the total interaction speed, and then apply it to the number of charges, it'll be much easier.
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Yup, this has already been suggested several times over. However, if you wanted the devs to notice it, you should've posted it in the suggestions section.
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The hatch mechanic exists primarily to prevent a survivor from getting ######### by an incompetent team. I think we can all agree that this sucks in any team game. It's not a perfect mechanic by any means, but this is its primary purpose.
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I'm hoping it's a bug and reported it as such.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754457#Comment_1754457
Well, multiplication and division are the same thing at the end of the day! It does look like we're doing things just a tad differently, though. My source of truth is [int3r4ct's video] - I'm doing calculations in the same way he is.
For example, to redo the Self Care + Botany Knowledge + Desperate Measures (four injures) + Resilience calculation:
Debuffs first:
16/(1-.50) = 32 seconds
Then buffs:
32/(1+(.33+(.14*4)+.09) = 32/.98 = 16.2 seconds
Just for the record, there is no practical difference between doing the calculations with debuffs first and then buffs, or vice-versa, or both at the same time, assuming you do it right. 1/(2*3) is 1/6 whether you divide by 2 or 3 first, or if you just do the multiplication and then divide 1 by that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754473#Comment_1754473
Your other posts may well be correct, but look at the specific quote I commented on - that is not true. For example, let's say we added another 30% debuff onto the 25% and 33% that are already in effect. By your math that would be: 1-.30 * .25 * .33 = 1-.025 = 97.5% interaction speed. You would actually be increasing your interaction speed by adding an additional debuff versus the 91.75% in your post.
I already edited both comments. I've no idea what I was thinking with the way I multiplied those values. They are indeed multiplicative, but it's (1-debuff1)*(1-debuff2)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754405#Comment_1754405
Debuffs (as is the case with Self-Care) are multiplicative (so two debuffs for the same thing result in a combined debuff that is the product of one by the other). For example, if you're suffering a 25% penalty on top of a 33% penalty, your interaction speed is 1-0.25*0.33=0.9175 (91.75%)
This isn't right, unfortunately. By this math, you'd actually perform actions faster if you had more debuffs. if you had a 25% debuff and a 33% debuff it'd work like this:
[Base Action Time]/(1-(.25 + .33)) = [Base Action Time]/.42 = 2.38*[Base Action Time]
So, if you were trying to calculate this for a 16 second heal, for example, this would become a 38 second heal.
The one big exception to this is that status effects, like Mangled, are calculated after any buffs from perks. Let's say you're trying to calculate the time to heal via Self Care while mangled.
You'd first calculate the affect of the perk:
16/(1-.50) = 32 seconds
And then you'd apply Mangled via the same formula:
32/(1-.2) = 40 seconds
[This] is a good video explaining it.
I said they were multiplicative and gave an example on how to calculate it. You wrote a sum.
What I said is 100% correct. I've opened two threads on the subject so far, with replies from devs confirming what I've said.
EDIT: There was indeed an error, I'm fixing it now.
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@NoObzBoiYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1754421#Comment_1754421
That’s the thing. I’m not going to PC, I’m going to ps5. And I’m definitely not playing on stadia
Then you'll have to wait until if and when the devs can convince Sony and Nintendo of the merits of cross progression. Given Sony's track record, though, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Some facts:
- 16 charges are required for a full heal.
- The base interaction speed is 1 charge per second.
- To know the interaction time, you divide the number of charges by the speed at which the interaction is performed.
- Debuffs (as is the case with Self-Care) are multiplicative (so two debuffs for the same thing result in a combined debuff that is the product of one by the other). For example, if you're suffering a 25% penalty on top of a 33% penalty, your interaction speed is (1-0.25)*(1-0.33)=0.5025 (50.25%)
- Buffs are additive (so two buffs for the same thing result in a combined buff that is the sum of one by the other). For example, if you're suffering a 12% boost on top of a 9% boost, your interaction speed is 1+0.12+0.09 = 1.21 (121%)
- If you're under the effect of buffs and debuffs, you calculate them separately and then multiply the result. With the two previous examples, that would add up to 0.608 (about 61%)
Under your example, the interaction speed is:
(1-0.5)*(1+0.14+0.09+0.33) = 0.78 (78%)
And thus the time is:
16/0.78 = 20.51 seconds (approximately)
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Last I heard, they were still working on the MMR and that it'd be implemented when ready.
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On. I don't care about playing with/against people from other platforms, just fast queues.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1752595#Comment_1752595
LOL who is imposing anything? If you want it on or off I don't care. I just don't want to be punished for turning it off, both because I chose to get a Series X (I am still on Xbox, crossplay shouldn't be required) AND because now my que times are LONGER than before crossplay was even added. THOSE ARE MY COMPLAINTS, I AM BEING FORCED TO ENABLED AN OPTIONAL FEATURE OF CROSSPLAY.
Dear lord this place is awful. Why I don't post much, because every time I do people do exactly what is being done in this thread. Now a mod came in and is more or less telling me oh well deal with it, you have to turn on crossplay to play on Xbox. Gee thanks, but right I'm the bully here.
Choices have consequences. You are not being "forced" to do anything, nor are you being "punished" for turning off an optional feature. These are consequences you knowingly accept when you disable crossplay.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1752563#Comment_1752563
No one is imposing their will here except you guys.
Maybe people with crossplay off are a minority but that doesn't change the fact the system should prioritize your platform and let you match with people on your platform regardless of their crossplay option. Again no one puts on crossplay to SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY play with players on another platform (unless they are friends). They do it for faster que times, but that means that the minority is punished for wanting to play the game a different way. That shouldn't be a thing. I should have the same que times as before crossplay was added, and the ones who turn it on should benefit from faster que times without negatively affecting the current que times.
You won't get it though. I just know it.
the system should prioritize your platform and let you match with people on your platform regardless of their crossplay option.
That's the same as disabling crossplay outside certain time periods.
That shouldn't be a thing. I should have the same que times as before crossplay was added, and the ones who turn it on should benefit from faster que times without negatively affecting the current que times.
That's not mathematically possible. Unfortunately, queue times are a zero-sum game - shortening the queues for some will increase the queues for others. The goal is to have everyone experience more or less the same (hopefully short) queue times.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1752541#Comment_1752541
You only got matched in a room full of Xbox players with crossplay on. If someone has it off they won't get matched with you even if you are on Xbox.
Which is the only way that makes sense. Run the numbers, see how many players with crossplay disabled would be necessary to effectively disable crossplay for the entire playerbase on any given platform. My guess is, not many.
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I almost always miss it.
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@whammigobambam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751011#Comment_1751011
They have the choice however they know that having it disabled will ruin queue time therefore they don't have much of a choice. Sitting there with not much of a choice the op is disgruntled and sees it as no choice at all.
Op, do you think that having the choice to be matched with certain platforms will help matters or just make it all worse?
Which means OP prioritizes queue times over excluding other platforms. Personally, I prioritize queue times over everything else, so I just go with whatever options make them shorter.
The matchmaker is not getting reworked to impose the will of a minority of players who don't like crossplay onto everyone else. If someone wants to disable crossplay they can, but they also have to bite the bullet and accept the consequences of having a smaller player pool.
If I'm wrong and the players who don't like crossplay are, in fact, a majority, then by biting the bullet the problem of long queues will solve itself. If, on the other hand, I'm right and they're a minority, then they have to learn to live with the consequences of purposefully constricting their player pool.
Is it a perfect system? No. However, it's entirely in the players' hands.
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@Xpljesus said:
No idea why you are getting so much stick. I am presuming your point is that crossplay off should mean you can get matched with your own players who have it enabled on your platform only - rather than hardcore separation of the queues. Seems reasonable to me.
I'd actually be against this because of personal reasons documented in my comment above, but no idea why you are getting so much ######### for a super reasonable suggestion (and also, your suggestion is how I thought it would work initially)
It's neither feasible nor reasonable to impose OP's choice to disable crossplay on everyone else who happens to play on their platform, as well as everyone not on their platform who would otherwise get matched with players from their platform.
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A tie.
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@Hopesfall said:
I don't really understand why if I turn it off, I can't be matched with other Xbox players that have it on? Why do both sides require it to be turned off to matchmake? Has a dev ever explained what the tech limitation there is?
Not a dev, but if you were matched with players who turned it on, you would be imposing your choice on them, since they now can't be matched with PC, PS, etc., players because you can't be matched with those players.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751083#Comment_1751083
"If crossplay was off by default, you'd have the exact same problem, but in reverse, so this wouldn't solve anything."
Well if players are as informed and not lazy as you say then they would turn it back on.
The devs did this to force crossplay. It's pretty clear.
Crossplay has been a highly requested feature over the years, and it makes far more sense to have it on by default than to have it off, given that you can't really match players who have it off with those who have it on. Furthermore, everyone prefers shorter queues, which crossplay can provide. Even people who don't like crossplay (you, to name a relevant example) prefer to leave it on than to suffer through longer queues.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751058#Comment_1751058
"Nobody's forcing you to have crossplay on. "
Yes they are by turning on crossplay my pool gets smaller and smaller while theirs gets bigger. Eventually no one will be in my pool and I'm FORCED into crossplay if I want games.
If the crossplay option was OFF by default this wouldn't be a problem because then at least people would have to choose to do it instead of choose to not do it. And yes there is a difference.
Yes they are by turning on crossplay my pool gets smaller and smaller while theirs gets bigger. Eventually no one will be in my pool and I'm FORCED into crossplay if I want games.
Only if people keep prioritizing shorter queues over excluding players in other systems. Otherwise, the reverse is true. Either way, no force is being used. You have the choice to decide for yourself what's more important: shorter queues or only playing with people using the same system as you. Personally, I chose shorter queues and would do so regardless of what the default status of crossplay happened to be.
If the crossplay option was OFF by default this wouldn't be a problem because then at least people would have to choose to do it instead of choose to not do it. And yes there is a difference.
If crossplay was off by default, you'd have the exact same problem, but in reverse, so this wouldn't solve anything.
Try to organize with people who feel the same way you do. Teach them about crossplay, disable it en masse and see if your queues are shortened. If you're right and most players are just too lazy or uninformed to do anything about it, then you'll have proven that crossplay is an unwanted feature (at least for your platform). If not, you at least have a small pool of players to get into lobbies with.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751042#Comment_1751042
It would not because you can be put in a game full of Xbox players with crossplay on anyway. It could easily match me in games to fill in spots.
Furthermore I feel force to play with crossplay on if I want to actually play the game nowadays. So why is it okay to force me to do something I don't want but not okay to force other people?
On the other hand, unless players like you were pushed to the back of the queue, which would likely mean you'd never get into a trial again, you would effectively be imposing your personal choice on everyone else.
Nobody's forcing you to have crossplay on. You have the choice to disable it, but you'd rather have shorter queues. This is very different from you showing up in a lobby and everyone else being forced to be matched as if they had crossplay off.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751023#Comment_1751023
Yes just like you have no proof they know what it means either.
For real the thread is not about why I don't play crossplay. It's about the devs fixing the problems on Xbox Series X and making it so that I can match with other players on my platform if they have crossplay ON, just don't put crossplay players in the game. So unless you are going to respond to either of those, just don't.
That's not feasible or reasonable. Such a thing would effectively be imposing your choice to disable crossplay on everyone you get matched with, since they won't be able to match with people from other platforms either because you happen to be in the same lobby.
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To me, someone who doesn't go all out is just showing blatant disrespect to their opponent. They're saying "you are not worth the effort, but I'm going to entertain you and let you pretend you have a chance". Maybe that comes from martial arts training, but I don't think "fair" means "Because I am the better player, I will handicap myself so you can feel like you have a chance at winning, even though that's not going to happen".
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1751011#Comment_1751011
If they don't know what it means that suggests uninformed.
If they don't care to change it to even try, that suggests lazy.
You have no evidence that they don't know what it means. I think any human being would be curious about the weird symbol and look up what it means.
Not wanting to change it is not the same as being lazy. Just because you would rather have it off (without suffering the consequences of longer queue times) doesn't mean the same is true of other players.