Orion
Orion
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- Orion
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@McCree said:
@Orion said:
@SenzuDuck said:
Ahh yes, making all survivor one hit down after their first hook is super balanced. Nullifying perks like Self-care, botany knowledge, leader, and making med kits useless after their first hook.Jesus you guys have no idea what balance is 😂
Easy to complain when you have no ideas of your own. EDIT: And for the record, this change would do the following:
- Incentivize playing stealthily, which is intended.
- Incentivize Survivors actually trying to escape the Killer, which is also intended.
- Nerf Self-Care, which is also intended.
- Punish Survivors for their mistakes, which is also intended.
"Incentivize playing stealthily, which is intended."
Not that I dislike that. It's not as fun as going full aggro however when I do most of the times the killer won't find me. Imagine if all 4 survivors did this. Would it be fun to move around the map without the chance to spot a survivor or if u do to lose them soon after? is that what you'd like to see?Honestly? Yes. I'd love to be outplayed by Survivors, as opposed to having them exploit the game in every way possible and then getting salty because they made mistakes that I capitalized on. I often compliment Survivors when they outplay me (on my stream, I don't waste time inflating their egos, especially when their reaction to outplaying me is "GG EZ GET REKT NUB") because I genuinely enjoy it.
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@lyric said:
Well I guess I can see why you wouldn’t take what anyone says as a fact but I’m just trying to explain a legit issue I’m having and no it’s not all the time and it’s possible it could be the killer connection but it is a issue that should be looked into if we’re talking about increasing hit boxes. Maybe they should make a connection requirement to be a killer in the game? I know it’s not good to leave certain players out but I’ll bet a lot of the problems some people report would go away if they made a connection requirement for the hostAnd I'm trying to help you, but to do so I need more information, and I also need to see what the problem actually is.
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@Delfador said:
@Orion said:
I think they should just remain injured for the rest of the trial, like they had No Mither. It'd buff Thanatophobia and reward Killers for hooking multiple Survivors.Nope, it will make the game too difficult for the survivors without a reason. A couple of side effects:
-Perks like We'll make it, borrowed time, self care, botany knowledge will become completely useless.
-Medkits will become useless
-It will end stealth gameplay. After all, you will always leave blood on the ground and if you don't use iron will, you will always make sounds.
-There are still powerful killers like billy, nurse and huntress. One hit for them is like nothing. Insta hatchets remove 4 hatchets and infantry belt adds 2. As if it is not powerful, I can't dodge 5 machine gun hatchets with my injured state. It is like giving huntress 5 free insta hatchets with machine gun build.I accept that the game is not balanced and survivor sided but not that much. This change would be ridiculous at best. When I play the game yes the killers have hard time but it is not like we are escaping 4 men squad from every single trial.
The killer side should be difficult to play and if the killers can play good, they should be able to get kills. This game's main problem is that its killers like LF wraith trapper etc. don't require skill to play. They are so simple to use and if the devs want to balance the game, they should make the killers more difficult to play but also rewarding like the nurse (not as much as nurse she is too powerful and takes every single tool from survivors hands). Your proposal just makes the game more difficult for the survivors and easier for the killers without any kind of downside for the killer side.
None of those perks or items will become useless if Survivors play stealthily. It won't end stealth gameplay if Survivors actually take stealth perks. The counter to those Killers is stealth.
In short, stealth is the only counter that should be guaranteed to work against every single Killer, assuming the Survivors are better at hiding than the Killer is at finding them. Not being seen should be the be all and end all of strategies in this game. This change would force Survivors to play stealthily or die, while incentivizing Killers to hook every Survivor for a massive pay-off in the end game.
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@Siggerad said:
@Orion said:
No, those are the stats the devs gave us. Blizzard had the right idea. IF 2/3 of the players are too entitled to understand that they're not the center of the universe, that's their problem.
Well losing 9M subscribers 15$ each one monthly; is not a lose for a company, maybe you are right.
Source?
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@SenzuDuck said:
Many benefits to bad killers, yes. Besides - you can’t combat tunnelling or camping. If a killer makes that their priority then survivors are gunna have to try and deal with that 😂make them perma injured LOL
Thanks for proving my point.
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@SenzuDuck said:
I’d rather make no suggestions than stupid suggestions.My suggestion has many benefits. Your opposition to it is baseless.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Ahh yes, making all survivor one hit down after their first hook is super balanced. Nullifying perks like Self-care, botany knowledge, leader, and making med kits useless after their first hook.Jesus you guys have no idea what balance is 😂
Easy to complain when you have no ideas of your own. EDIT: And for the record, this change would do the following:
- Incentivize playing stealthily, which is intended.
- Incentivize Survivors actually trying to escape the Killer, which is also intended.
- Nerf Self-Care, which is also intended.
- Punish Survivors for their mistakes, which is also intended.
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No, those are the stats the devs gave us. Blizzard had the right idea. If 2/3 of the players are too entitled to understand that they're not the center of the universe, that's their problem.
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@Runiver said:
@Orion said:
@Tzeentchling9 said:
"Just chase someone else!"Pls ignore all four Survivors have the perk in question
Also ignore that Killers should never have to give up chasing a Survivor, since they're supposed to be the power role.
I did talk to devs about that.
They weren't quite aware that killers had to drop most chases in the game due to perks/map setups 'till recently.
They clearly stated "Killers shouldn't have to drop chases, survivors should be the ones trying to lose killers."Not sure how they didn't notice it's the opposite since day 1.
It just proves what I always say: the devs do not read threads posted in these sections (General Discussions, Off-Topic, you know the ones I mean). They are for nobody except the players and the people who post them. If you want your threads to be noticed by the people who actually matter, then post them in the correct sections.
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@Siggerad said:
Nice generalization, but is not like every game is like that; not every one play SWF; or high rank; only devs know how many players are in high rank; maybe this Nerf affect more the lower ranks than just the high rank toxic loopers; plus what other option survivors have to lose the killer?70% of lobbies contain SWF. Games should be balanced at the highest level of play. Survivors have plenty of options to lose the Killer. Looping does not help Survivors to lose the Killer.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Lol, keep them injured 😂 I’m so glad none of you have a say about balance in this game, jeeze.Yes, keep them injured, so that hooking multiple Survivors becomes more relevant and beneficial than killing them. That's what Survivors want, right? To fail time and time again, but without the consequence of losing (dying).
The moment hooks become significant and Killers become the power role, you can even actively punish camping and I will support it.
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@lyric said:
Which you doubt? I do have top grade internet I don’t care if you believe me or not and i don’t know why you’re trolling when I’m literally just having a conversation and even agreeing to some portions of it trying to explain some issues I see, if I wanted to hear from a ######### I would fart, simple as that. This whole forum is full of a bunch of crybaby killers who just want to have all four survivors hooked in the first minute of the match so they feel the “balance” like complaining about hit boxes now because someone juked the ######### out of them without a pallet and they can’t accept it.Yes, I doubt that you have "top grade" Internet, but I'm willing to be proven wrong, which is why I asked for information. Sorry if I don't take what you say at face value and actually require evidence for your claims.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
"Just chase someone else!"Pls ignore all four Survivors have the perk in question
Also ignore that Killers should never have to give up chasing a Survivor, since they're supposed to be the power role.
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@lyric said:
But it legit is a normal scenario playing on PS4 it really is a problem , I’m not talking about the moments where you get hit at the same time I’m talking about after the pallet is already down. I bet I could go home after work and have it happen at least 3-4 times even with having top grade internet, if we can increase the hit box without those moments becoming more BS than they are I’m all for it as I saidRecord it and post your ISP and location (just the country, obviously), as well as the Killer's location (again, just the country). Connections are two-way, so even if your Internet is "top grade" (which I doubt, TBH), there's a chance the Killer's isn't.
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@lyric said:
My only argument to that is if you don’t actually hit the survivor then why should they be punished for you swinging at the wrong time? Hugging around objects is sometimes a good way to evade the killers like the hillbilly and if someone is juking you in a thicket of trees is that more legit than pallet looping to you? Looping and camping are both a strategy in the game, and if we’re talking about hit boxes how about when a survivor is like 6 feet on the other side of the window and gets hit or slams a pallet and takes a shot whenever it’s already down and you’re a whole pallet length away? If you increase the hit box there would be no way to legit juke and the BS hits that shouldn’t happen sometimes will happen way more, also looping would be a way bigger problem, now if they can give you what you want without making some of those situations more BS than they already are than I’m all for it if it truly balances the gameSurvivors do not get hit "6 feet away" from a window unless they're playing against the Huntress and/or are experiencing heavy lag. You know that's true, so why are you trying to make it sound like a normal scenario? As for pallets, they can get hit at the same time as they drop the pallet. I see no problem with this - you got a stun, the Killer got a hit. Don't be greedy with the pallet and you might just not get hit.
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@SovererignKing said:
You are correct. It’s 0.2% at level 1, 0.6% at level 2, 1.2% at level 3. At 15/30/45 seconds each.No, +0.2 m/s. +0.2% isn't even 0.01 m/s. Anyway, other than BL III, I don't think they're even that significant.
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@SovererignKing said:
Change Bloodlust to give speed boost at a faster rate, but at lesser value. This would negate the collision box differences between Survivors and Killers. Survivors using the smaller collision to “hug” objects close to preform tighter and therefore faster circles around objects would be negated by the fact the Killer is still fast enough that the collision box abuse is negated.The numbers are already very small (it's +0.2 m/s at Bloodlust I, if memory serves).
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One of your suggestions is literally rewarding Survivors for failure (you know the one I'm talking about). I do not support this.
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@Paddy4583 said:
Nope I’m just not bothered about other people’s play style, survivors create their own problem with camping.Indeed they do, but they also get pissy about it. If you don't know that, either you've never played Killer, or you just don't read the forum.
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@Paddy4583 said:
Because most survivors don’t care about camping, there’s no point taking a bullet for something that you don’t care about. Camping just gives people more time to do gens and gives the killer less points, all pros for meYou must be new here (DbD).
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If you want to get rid of camping, you have to be drastic. The problem is that most Survivors aren't willing to bite the bullet.
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I think they should just remain injured for the rest of the trial, like they had No Mither. It'd buff Thanatophobia and reward Killers for hooking multiple Survivors.
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@Timebomb0800 said:
@Someissues said:
Not until people realized that on High Ranked only very few killers are viable, and yet there still people thinking Killers like LF/ Pig/ Myer is fine on Rank 1. Sure you can still get 3/4k but it doesn't mean they are balanced and does not need any buffsIf you can still succeed at high ranks with "non-viable" killers and get 3/4k's, wouldn't that mean they're okay then?
No, because those things rely on Survivors making egregious mistakes several times in a row.
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Only because you didn't read anything beyond the title, or you'd see that more clarification is required.
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I support this suggestion.
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Survivors will often report you for anything they can think of, but only a handful of things are actually against the rules:
- Farming with one or more Survivors.
- Hacking/Cheating/Exploiting.
- Post-game chat abuse (death threats, racial slurs, and so on).
- Holding the game hostage.
You cannot be reported for camping, "tunneling", slugging (letting Survivors bleed out), or any other strategy.
My best advice, if you're going to play Killer, is to ignore anything Survivors say, make your profile comments only open to friends, and play however you want.
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If you played to be toxic (and don't give me that "what is toxic?" BS, you know exactly what "toxic" means), then GG is just yet another way to taunt the other side. Personally, when I play, I either say GG or nothing at all.
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@BOSS242 said:
If you spend too much time and energy on only the big issue this game will die. Your idea of a small issue may be a huge problem for others so to say "until I'm happy none of your issue can be fixed" is about as entitled as you can get!
Do you really think survivors are going to stick around and keep playing if all you do is constantly make things harder for them?? But who cares right? "As long as the game plays how I want it to!" Open your mind a bit to the idea other people want to have fun playing too!!!You're still not getting my point. I'll give it one last try.
- When you fix issues plaguing one side, you indirectly buff that side. It's unavoidable.
- The game is in the Survivors' favor right now. That's a fact that most people acknowledge.
- Survivor fixes are usually small changes. This stems from the fact that Survivor gameplay is fairly basic compared to Killer gameplay. There are few interactions that can cause problems.
- To balance the game, new mechanics will have to be introduced, which will then need to be tweaked. This takes time.
- To fix every problem plaguing Survivors would tilt the balance of the game further in the Survivors' favor. Given what happened last year, when players (yes, players; they weren't just Killer mains, despite the propaganda) organized a strike in protest of the game's unbalanced state, this could result in a similar (or worse) event.
- If Survivor mains could bite the bullet for once, instead of expecting Killer mains to do it, and wait until the game approaches something resembling a balanced state, their fixes would have less of an impact on the balance of the game. At worst, it would go from "fairly balanced" to "slightly unbalanced", as opposed to going from "very unbalanced" to "unplayable".
- If the devs start fixing Survivor problems after the game is balanced, the balance changes required will be relatively small adjustments to their new mechanics that can be released in quick succession.
- If the devs were to fix every Survivor problem now, given that it'd just add to the unbalanced state of the game, it'd take longer to achieve a balanced state. New mechanics take time to create and adjust to. Even if they only fix some of the problems at the same time as they balance the game by introducing new mechanics, they won't have reliable data on either change. This means they'll have to push back one of the two, and if history tells us anything, they'll push back whatever benefits Killers.
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@RSB said:
@Nos37 said:
Replace the aura handicap with a number over the perk indicating how many survivors are within range of the hook/perk.Self care QoL - you can heal yourself up to 3 times, no other teammate can heal you.
DS QoL - when you hit DS you lose 2 hook stages, so the next hook kills you (if you have been hooked once you get sacrificed on the killer's shoulder, sorry)
SB QoL - when the Sprint Burst deactivates and you are Exhausted, you move 20% slowerSee? It is not that hard.
Y'know, other than the DS thing (which I'd put to lose just one hook stage and no sacrifice on the Killer's shoulder), these changes could work.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Orion said:
@Judgement said:
@azazer said:
So it's my responsibility to suffer other people's terrible ping?Dedicated servers when?
Do you know how servers work? People with ######### connections will still have ######### connections.
At least they won't be able to lag switch.
That's not how servers work, at all.
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@Judgement said:
@azazer said:
So it's my responsibility to suffer other people's terrible ping?Dedicated servers when?
Do you know how servers work? People with ######### connections will still have ######### connections.
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Me when reading this thread's title: Alright, let's see what kind of nerf is being suggested this time. Probably gonna have something to do with the auras, like always.
Me when reading the thread: Called it. -
Regardless of your intention (which I don't believe to be genuine), it will come across as BM, and that's all that matters as far as other players are concerned.
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Yes, punish those gen campers and gen tunnelers. Survivors have spoken: campers and tunnelers must be punished.
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I've never played on that map. Not once.
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Yes, you can punish campers. Repair generators and get out, leaving him with few points and no pip.
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@fcc2014 said:
@Orion said:
Ideally, you could add more modifiers to the queue system that would not be bypassed no matter how much time had passed. For example, play time, highest rank achieved, and so on.
That is actually a really good idea on the conditions that BHVR can pull it off and it doesn't make que times outrageous. I could see issues on pc though people hacking just to continue to troll.
Queue times would naturally increase for high-ranking people, but that's something everyone would have to deal with to ensure balanced matches. You can't simultaneously have balanced matches and fast queues unless you have literally millions of players, or if the players you do have are equally distributed between every metric you might want to consider.
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@fcc2014 said:
@Orion said:
No, not exactly.
I want Survivors to have to be smarter/better than the Killer in order to escape, instead of just having to exploit map design and broken mechanics while their team does generators.
I want Survivors to be pressured to make as few mistakes as possible, instead of having more safety nets than Chinese factories.
Long story short, I want Survivors to have to play well in order to win. They're supposed to be the weaker role, their mistakes should be more punishing.The only problem is the learning curve. They have to balance it for the whole community. people with 100's to 1000's of hours would adjust. New people just starting get slaughtered over and over. They move on. Highly skilled and experienced killers have been deranking and sit in 12-18 range. I've seen 6 different users with the Platinum trophy(every achievement in the game killer and survivor)That is a major problem they also need to deal with.
Ideally, you could add more modifiers to the queue system that would not be bypassed no matter how much time had passed. For example, play time, highest rank achieved, and so on.
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@BOSS242 said:
Alright, I get ya. So you would like for the killer to have to make a mistake for the survivors have chance to win instead of the other way round? Makes sense. But I also think things are getting better at least for straight up players.I almost feel it's like its the gun control issue here in the US. hahahaha I know hear me out.
like some people argue, they keep taken power away from survivors which seems hurt New players and non toxic players more than the toxic survs you want to take the power from. Need to keep boosting killer for chase but stop and even go back on some of the aura reading stuff so survivors can hide otherwise we're just going to go unbalanced again but for the survivors again this timeNo, not exactly.
I want Survivors to have to be smarter/better than the Killer in order to escape, instead of just having to exploit map design and broken mechanics while their team does generators.
I want Survivors to be pressured to make as few mistakes as possible, instead of having more safety nets than Chinese factories.
Long story short, I want Survivors to have to play well in order to win. They're supposed to be the weaker role, their mistakes should be more punishing. -
Déjà vu.
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@HookedonDemand said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Wolf74 said:
@Shadoureon said:
Ah good old killers still complaining survivors use the same meta perks while 99% of the killers run BBQ, Ruin and NC.I understand killers arent in a favourite position right now but a lot can be achieved by changing other things than current perks.
Are you aware that you are actually LYING?
Stats back up that survivor use the same perks far more often than killer.
Killer use a wider variety and more different perks than survivor.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but if you have no clue what you are talking about, don't throw around random numbers.And btw you 3 named killer perks are all way weaker than the holy trinity (SC, SB, DS).
Self cafe is used by a solid like 23%, multiplied by 4 for the survivors, it’s really 92%. BBQ is 99%. That’s basically every single killer, in existence.
I'm pretty sure you can't just add stuff up in statistics.
By your logic, if 10% of all people have a sixth toe, then putting ten of them in the same room means that all people (10x10) have a sixth toe.
Sorry, it'S pedantic day for my religion today.
He means that 23% of all perk slots are Self Care (according to the devs). Since you can't equip a perk more than once, that means 4*23% of all Survivors are using Self Care.
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The Nurse does obey the rules of the game. Her power allows her to bypass terrain, just like the Wraith's power allows him to go invisible and the Hillbilly's power allows him to put Survivors in the dying state with one hit. Each Killer has their own abilities that Survivors need to play around.
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Sure.
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It's a percentage. Do you also go to lottery houses and complain you didn't win with a 4% chance?
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@BOSS242 said:
What? If I understand you, you're saying it can be done but it's not easy so you need to make it easier? Maybe you just need to find the challenge level that fits you best. What every rank/killer combo that is for you.Any Killer can get kills if Survivors make big mistakes multiple times in a row. Doesn't mean the game is balanced.
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@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
Answer the question. Do you think it's unreasonable to focus on the big problem instead of solving small issues that would further tilt the game in the Survivors' favor?
This is a "yes/no" question. I failed to see either of those words in your answer. Once you answer it, you can then explain your reasoning. Here, I'll go first.
It's not unreasonable to fix the bigger problem first. Fixing Survivor problems might help Survivors in the short term, but in the long term, it's better if you start by putting Killers where they should be, so that the Survivor fixes don't make the game unbalanced to the point Killers put together another strike.Yet what's the actual big problem here, buffing killers or fixing the underlying issues that cause that? So you buff killers 1st well then now the shoes on other foot so they either nerf killers again or buff survivors and then were back to square 1 again.
This is why they need to address it all at the same time instead of piecemeal attempts which just end up making them redo stuff later. If they make changes to say aura reading abilities at the same time they know the balance is there when they go to release it. But if they do only killers then they have to either nerf it back again or buff survivors.
This is why they decided to change tinkerer completely because trying to adjust things for one group meant they couldn't get it right for the others. By doing the change all at once they cna now buff all the killers individually for how cdr stuff works.
The same is true for fixing killers, if you don't fix the underlying issues and instead only buff them it fixes nothing.
Why are you trying so hard to avoid answering the question?
I'm not trying hard to avoid the question and in fact answered it, you just don't like my reasoning in my response. You claim the big problem is on your side but that doesn't make it so. I'm saying the big problem is the overall underlying issues that have put killer in such a bad place.
It's a yes/no question. You've yet to say either yes or no. All you've done is criticize my reasoning for my own answer and criticize the question itself.
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@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
Answer the question. Do you think it's unreasonable to focus on the big problem instead of solving small issues that would further tilt the game in the Survivors' favor?
This is a "yes/no" question. I failed to see either of those words in your answer. Once you answer it, you can then explain your reasoning. Here, I'll go first.
It's not unreasonable to fix the bigger problem first. Fixing Survivor problems might help Survivors in the short term, but in the long term, it's better if you start by putting Killers where they should be, so that the Survivor fixes don't make the game unbalanced to the point Killers put together another strike.Yet what's the actual big problem here, buffing killers or fixing the underlying issues that cause that? So you buff killers 1st well then now the shoes on other foot so they either nerf killers again or buff survivors and then were back to square 1 again.
This is why they need to address it all at the same time instead of piecemeal attempts which just end up making them redo stuff later. If they make changes to say aura reading abilities at the same time they know the balance is there when they go to release it. But if they do only killers then they have to either nerf it back again or buff survivors.
This is why they decided to change tinkerer completely because trying to adjust things for one group meant they couldn't get it right for the others. By doing the change all at once they cna now buff all the killers individually for how cdr stuff works.
The same is true for fixing killers, if you don't fix the underlying issues and instead only buff them it fixes nothing.
Why are you trying so hard to avoid answering the question?
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Personally, when I say "Survivors are entitled", I mean "most vocal Survivors", or "most Survivors I've seen". It's just easier to say "Survivors" than to type out either of the (admittedly more correct) alternatives. I appreciate what you're trying to say, though.
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Don't cheat/hack/exploit, don't harass other players, don't hold the game hostage. Pretty much everything else is fair game, however annoying it might be.