Orion
Orion
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- Orion
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If the Nurse hits either survivor, both escape. If the Nurse keeps standing there, both die.
Is it annoying for the survivors? Yes.
Is it the best tactical decision for the killer? Also yes.
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470234#Comment_470234
So it's now you right to use the same failed arguments, when survivors complain? I really don't get this grudge mentality. And the problem with the four minutes is that it happens basicly every game right now. It sums up over time.
And in general, the past doesn't matter, when EGC finally fixes most of these issues. It was adressed. The goal is to make games shorter, when everything is decided. And even if it will become less over time, it's possible. And my experience says there will always people abusing things, when they can. So it will stay an issue. Maybe less of one, but it will continue to happen occasionally.
Except nobody's using the same arguments. What we're saying is that the EGC is the new toy, so people will naturally want to try it out, see how it works, etc., and that it will go back to normal within a week, tops.
And yeah, the past does matter, at least to people who can actually remember it and experienced it. Still, by your own admission, the EGC has fixed these issues by making games shorter when everything is decided. By your own argument, this is not an issue.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470213#Comment_470213
Why does every argument have the "The killers just doing their job" mentality thrown in to defuse anything anyone says? Yes, the killers objective is to kill survivors and win... But that point is subjective and can be interpreted by others in different ways.
For example, yes I could kill everyone and have a literal one track mind towards the game and find enjoyment out of that yes. But to some others they seek a challenge, and to killers like me I seek a fair and enjoyable experience for both party's.
While yes you have just as much of a fair chance in a chase as you did with three other teammates the scenario is quiet different... dare I say... not as demanding as it once was, allow me to elaborate. With a team of 4 you must spread your objectives out to consider all possible routes to maximize pressure and reduce time and generators being wasted.
If we remove that factoid from a 1v1 with the hatch closed, its just a scenario of hide and seek depending on the gate spawn. As for if you close the hatch and find the survivor there is nothing they can do, sure they can do what they usually do and try and evade your attacks. But without a sense of urgency the killer has with a team the chase is utterly meaningless. You have a better choice of just letting them kill you than actually stand a chance.
And yes, the killer should have an advantage over one survivor its THE KILLER. But giving a literal ultimatum to the survivor (Get chased for X amount of time, Die to the Entity, or give up and rot on a hook) is some backwards logic to a scenario like this. That's not really an advantage over one side at that point, its just a GG you die with 0% of living in the end.
Now, this scenario will not always happen and some EGC's will be more in the survivors favor. But i'm starting to notice more and more despite the distance from each gate if its across the map or not its becoming more and more easy to patrol both and have enough time to catch the survivor before they open a gate each time. Especially with Remember Me, but we can't really remove that perk all together because of this new system. I just believe a more direct approach to this problem needs to be faced.
And if its Billy or Nurse patrolling those gates that's GG rip no matter how far the gates are, but its Billy and Nurse so.
All i'm saying is, i'm not 100% sure on how these scenarios need to be address to be fully honest, but that's why I made this discussion now didn't I? So we can discuss that problem T O G E T H E R!
You say you made this discussion to figure out how these scenarios need to be addressed, yet get upset with anyone who doesn't think there's a problem in the first place. Make up your mind, then we can talk.
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470203#Comment_470203
"We had it worser than you" is not an argument. And it's not like people didn't talk about endgame scenarios beeing an issue. It came up in several discussions over the past two years. Especially the hatch standoff everybody complained about.
The new issue is something worth to talk about, because it's a new behaviour we are seeing to happen right now. And maybe we don't want every issue people have to adressed within 2 years. And it's not that people want to take killers something away. They are talking about a "concede" button during endgame or even making Cypress Mori base kit.
You're right, people did bring up concede buttons, hatch stand-offs, and survivors hanging around the gates for hours, but I see you failed to mention what the responses from survivors were. You probably just forgot, so let me do it for you:
"Git gud"
"Just hit them and let them take the hatch"
"Just chase them out of the gates"
"Just DC"
"Stop being so sensitive"
"It's your fault you were in the hatch standoff for that long"
Those were the usual responses. Now that the shoe is just hanging from the other foot's toe (because a maximum of four minutes is nowhere near the same as the indefinite maximum killers had to endure before), suddenly killers are expected to show some sympathy for something that will stop being so prevalent in a week, tops? Give me a break.
Slugging was there before and will be there afterward. Survivors are only complaining because, now, killers get some satisfaction out of it with the cool kill animation. Nevertheless, this won't last forever, as people will lose interest in the cool animation (surprise, killers don't like to wait around 4 minutes just to see an animation either, although survivors sure like being slugged for 4 minutes if it doesn't give the killer anything) and will resume hooking the last survivor.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470194#Comment_470194
A lot of scenarios can occur where more times or not the survivor is in favor, or the killer is in favor. I don't main survivor, I main killer i'm looking out for the little guy here.
Lets have a scenario though where every teammate you have is a potatoe (since most solo matches have potatoe survivor teammates) and they all die almost instantly. Your last hope is the hatch, but oh wait the killer found it first but all is not lost if the gates are just far enough apar- oh....they're right next to each other... Guess its time to go die in a locker.
Sounds fun right? Wrong. Of course I don't disagree with the scenario where the gates can spawn too far away it becomes obvious that the system here is flawed in some way. Perhaps a system can be in order to work out how gates spawn in which areas to maximize a fair end game for both party's. Who's going to make this system? Idk.
But I can say this, a solo survivor shouldn't have the odds stacked up against them at the end because their entire team threw the match and now you get the headache of 1v1ing the killer basically.
I still don't see how that's fair.
No, losing doesn't sound fun, which is kinda the point. Why should losing be indistinguishable from winning?
As for your scenarios, the last survivor could have just been lucky. If the killer finds the last two survivors together and only kills one, the other one wasn't skillful, they were lucky. They survived as the result of a coin flip. The only constant in every 1v1 scenario is that the killer did their job.
A solo survivor does not have the odds stacked against them at the end. They have the same odds as before when it came to a 1v1 with the killer. They will lose with the same ease as if the rest of the team were alive. The only difference is that they've exhausted all their second chances at that point.
A 1v1 is fair. The killer did their job and killed all the other survivors. Why should the game be changed in such a way that the killer is equivalent to one survivor at that point?
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470182#Comment_470182
You know as well as I do that most survivors will not do that out of spite for the killer, this game has a natural feud between both sides. I can see more times than not where the survivor just try's to gamble for a key from a chest, most likely not get one and just sit in a locker till the Entity just says "No u" and you die.
You can't honestly believe that's fair.
So we've established that the problem with the 2 minutes when the trial is supposedly unwinnable isn't the killers, but rather the survivors.
As for the gates being too close, they can also be too far, which would be in the survivor's favor. Both situations happen at the same rate due to the random nature of gate placement, which, according to the devs, makes it fair.
QED, the problem is the survivors.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470175#Comment_470175
I'd prefer a scenario where either if the killer gets the hatch he wins and or if the last survivor gets the hatch he wins.
I don't like the new scenario where the killer gets the hatch and we play 2 minutes of watching someone hide and die off screen because both gates spawn literally right next to each other.
If the survivor believes there's no chance for escape, why don't they just go to the killer and ask to be hooked, instead of skulking around the map and delaying the trial?
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468502#Comment_468502
I disagree, both the survivors and killers need a fair chance here. If the gates are within 32 meters from each other then that's just GG, minus well wait in a corner for 2 minutes rather than trying tbh. Overall, I don't care what side it benefits, if it's too unfair then it needs a change as soon as possible imo.
@NMCKE It's a 1v1 in an asymmetrical 4v1 game. The fact that it's heavily in the killer's favor means it's balanced, and thus fair.
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Hangman's Trick helps with sabotage and makes it so you never have to worry about hook positioning ever again.
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A killer was in two places at the same time? Clearly either a hack or a godlike entity capable of violating the laws of physics.
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@liquidlight said:
Why should the killer be entitled to a 4k? The last survivor didn't underperform. That's why they're the LAST survivor. They deserve a better chance since the odds are now highly stacked against them.
They could also be the last survivor due to sheer luck.
Killer finds the last two survivors together. Chases and kills one of them. The other one becomes the last survivor as the result of a coin flip.
The only constant in a 1v1 is that three survivors died as a result of the killer's actions. The killer did their job.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
It's a crappy thing to do to people and I'm shocked at the amount of killer mains who stream and would cry about survivors holding the game hostage, that are now holding survivors hostage and forcing EGC kills. Nothing annoys me as a killer quite like some piece of **** waiting at the exit gate instead of just leaving, but I wouldn't do that to survivors.
Fun side note, survivors still do the same crap, they now just have a time limit.
The fact that it has a timer means it's no longer holding the game hostage.
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Players should never be able to directly influence the matchmaker in any way. That's a recipe for disaster.
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Bad idea. It'd just be used to derank.
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@PunL said:
People who think that Legion is destroyed also state that Nurse is balanced...
So they're right about two things. What's your point?
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/466638#Comment_466638
The fact survivors are complaining about 4 minutes instead of the gate spawns baffles me tbh.
I guess people loved staring at a floor for hours on end because their pride was too strong or something.
Based on what I've heard from survivor mains over the years in regards to slugging, I think they're just upset that it's rewarding for killers (since it gives a small amount of BP and personal satisfaction due to the cool animation). Slugging happened before the EGC as well, but survivors didn't use to complain this much about it (and even caused it themselves to deprive the killers of points); it's only when it became even slightly rewarding for the killer to do so that it became an issue for them.
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/469294#Comment_469294
He said gens are getting done during a chase even through ruin, which tells me he was tunneling.
Some survivors do this thing called "hitting skill checks". Powering through Hex: Ruin is child's play if you've already figured out the timing.
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@Usui said:
Sounds to me like you tunnel way to much and don't patrol gens properly. I'd suggest getting better at the game rather then complaining about a single perk. How about they finally do something about nurse?
You heard it here first, folks, hitting a survivor three times at any point during a trial is tunneling.
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@TheBean said:
So in this thread a Dev mentions the increase in timer is by 50% which means the 2 minute timer is increased by 60 seconds... not to 4 minutes when downed. So the max amount of time the EGC can be is 3 minutes correct?
Also.. about when players leave during the loading screen.... So.. when offerings are tossed out.. and a survivor sees a mori and leaves during the offering screen is over.. and loading begins.. Is the match canceled and the killer gets their Mori back?
What stops survivors from preventing killers from ever using moris again?
@Almo and @Peanits
The info I see in the news section with the QA makes me ask these, since I seen Almo explain the timer goes to 3 minutes.. not 4. When does the EGC goto 4 minutes as being the max?
The dev is wrong. That may have been their intention, but how it works at the moment is that the timer is slowed by 50%, which doubles the time. There's video proof, which I posted in this thread.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/469265#Comment_469265
Really, it hurts me that nerf to my best killer, I'm mainly from Billy, there are many players asking for a nerf to Billy, and I think he is in a good place. I do not know why I made this post, but the idea ran through my mind. That's it.
If the Hillbilly is fine (which the devs agree with), then he doesn't need a nerf.
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Can't killers have one thing that's actually both powerful and fun?
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@PinkEricka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/469074#Comment_469074
generally speaking, anyone that lives in the US mostly sees that people that lives outside the US is foreign.
i think the person was korean or Chinese
apologies if you’re offended
That's literally what foreign means, someone who is not from your country. I wasn't offended, I just found it funny because of how meaningless it is without the proper context.
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Hacking is possible on any game, on any platform.
Also, I laughed at "foreign person". You do realize that "foreign" is a relative term, right?
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@bendermac said:
Aari_Piggy66 got it 👍
seams these days making a joke it's really hard for people to understand 🤷♂️
I'll be honest, I just looked at the thumbnail. Didn't even watch the video because I just didn't care.
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Sure. If survivors miss the QTE, they die instantly, but without the animation.
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I'm complaining because all the things that made the Legion fun were nerfed.
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No, and yes.
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It's not like there are generators or anything.
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@Orti said:
@Orion okay now I understand the issue. You're assuming he is talking about movement but taking his calculation he isn't he just put in time by itself like the devs tried to did, you're totally right about movement and time. I just meant that if you take 50% of a minute it's just plain 30 seconds. The devs didn't used the charge system like they do most of the time because it makes the calculation more complex, afterwards they should just stick with it if they still mess it up with something as simple as plus and minus.
Speed is just one particular case of a progression rate. The principle applies to all of them.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468655#Comment_468655
Oh okay.... I remember you a thread explaining how that actually works!... maybe your thread should be revived so we can brush up on it a bit!?
Here you go:
This is basic physics you should learn in high school, but many people have been having problems with it, so here we go. -
@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/467432#Comment_467432
50% of 2mins is 1min..... so if it takes 2mins without anyone on the floor or hook and you slug to see the sacrifice the timer increases by 50% ----> 3mins ....... if the timer were increased by 100% that would be all 2mins because 100% of 2mins is 2mins so in that case the max timer would be 4mins
@Bravo0413 The timer is neither increased nor decreased in the literal sense. What's altered is the rate of progression. According to Almo, the intention was to slow it down so it lasted an additional 50%. Instead, they slowed down the progression by 50%, which leads to a 100% time increase.
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@Orti said:
@Orion in this case it is. He gave you an example and a dev also prooved that the system is just not working as intended. The calculation system you used is used for 3 dimensional numbers like speed+time=way. In the case we only need to find out what the time is so you not using it.
50% of an amount of time can never be 100%. It's only wrong if we would have a speed but we only have time. Time has no speed it's just 1 second per second. But I'm not fluent enough in english to explain how time works in when calculating.
No one argueed about the timer not working like you said, we only claimed the fact that he is not working as intented or said by the devs. You misunderstood what the devs said about the timer and now you try to say that even someone who should now how the calculation of the endgame work is wrong.
I know how time works in calculations. I simplified it a bit for the laymen because I figured if some people have trouble understanding that slowing down by a certain amount is not the same as increasing time by that same amount, they'd have more trouble understanding differential equations.
It does seem the devs screwed up, according to Almo, but @FSB75 is actually saying that a 50% speed reduction is equivalent to a 50% time increase, which is not true in the slightest.
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I'm not making it more complex than it is. @FSB75 is stating that a 50% reduction in speed is the same thing as a 50% increase in time, which is objectively and demonstrably false. The devs may have ######### up what they intended to do, but that doesn't change the fact that halving the rate at which something progresses will double the time it takes for it to finish. The fact that the timer is slowed by 50% is equally indisputable, as we have video proof confirming it (which I linked to in this thread.
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@FSB75 said:
I have 3 children...this isn't high school math. It's elementary math.
Look, I like you @Orion I understand or agree with a lot of your comments. I'm not arguing with you, even if you think I am, or if your think I'm an idiot. It's about as important to me as it takes me to type this lat statement. (90 WPM).
Base speed for EGC is 2 minutes. Do we agree we have BOTH seen the Devs confirm this? If the survivors are not injured or hooked, once the EGC starts, it's 2 minutes maximum? Is this correct? Has anyone tested the base speed of EGC?
IF base is 2 minutes.....let's get to your 4 minutes.
2 * 100% = 2
2 (base) + 2 (slowed percent of 100) = 4
Which the EGC is currently 4 minutes in game, as per your testing. According to the Devs, this is NOT working as intended.
So when we say things like, "It takes twice as long"....well the twice means "doubling"...that's not correct. Twice as long means you use 100%. IF that's what's currently happening in game, I'm not disputing that.
Then people say it will take "half" as long...in that case they are subtracting the time.
This EGC is HALF as fast while a survivor is injured or hooked.
You get 3 minutes every time. If it's seconds or charges.
I work for my State Department of Transportation. This is comp time, exact same thing. We deal with it all the time. If I work 8 hours of overtime, I can convert it to comp time and take 12 hours of time off paid at base pay. Overtime, as we all know, is time and a half. My base pay PLUS half my base pay. If I worked 2 hours of overtime, I can comp it for 3 hours of time off at base pay.
I'm not saying anything about how it's currently working....I'm talking about how it SHOULD be working.
IF the base EGC timer is 2 minutes, and IF time is slowed by 50% when a survivor is injured or hooked, then the maximum amount of time the EGC SHOULD last is 3 minutes.
And that's all I have to say about that.
You're still not getting that slowing down 50% is not the same as increasing the time by 50%, because that's not how speed and time are related to one another.
v = x/t, that is how speed and time are related to one another. Divide the speed by 2 and solve for t, what do you get?
You say this is elementary math, but you and many people on this forum, and even the devs, are getting it wrong. I honestly don't understand how you can get this wrong. Do you think that slowing down by 100% means it will take you an additional 100% of time to reach your destination, even though slowing down 100% means you're not moving at all?
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468557#Comment_468557
Don’t forget, I never got a “LOL”. I’m fairly certain the only thing I’ll surpass you in is post (maybe).You can have the royal jewels too. They have awesomes, promotes,LOL’s and vote ups. :D
Totally forgot the LOLs, but I'm afraid I never got the chance to max out those, thanks to the bots that primarily went after other members.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468533#Comment_468533
That is true. Whenever I get the most post and fulfill my forum domination you can have a title. :D
But you'll never have all the same stuff as me - post count, upvotes, downvotes, Promote, and Awesome. I feel like Ymir Fritz. :P
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468524#Comment_468524
I just need four more to beat you. :D
But you're forgetting that three of those were Promote reactions, which no longer exist. It's like Legacy, nobody else can get them any more. And I had the highest count, AFAIK.
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@GrootDude said:
@Mushwin but I have more post, vote ups and I think “BHVR read”. You can keep your vote downs.
[looks at 5 BHVR read]
Like I said, big shoes to fill.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468513#Comment_468513
I will hold the torch proudly.
You'll have big shoes to fill. Literally, my shoe size is 47 (EU).
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468503#Comment_468503
I joined in January and seem to be one of the most active people on the forum. Right now you can have your victory, but soon I’ll have the most post! :D
Hey, once I get the ultimate victory, I won't really care. It'll be time to retire and pass on the torch.
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@FSB75 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468501#Comment_468501
I have no doubt it's not working as intended in the game.
I have no doubt that the devs have stated time and time again the EGC is supposed to last a maximum of 3 minutes.
I have no doubt that the math I provided is not mine, it's simply what happens when you enter data into a calculator.
50% longer than 2 minutes is 1 minute. Adding the base with the extra time is 3 minutes.
I'll check out your info, but it's difficult to believe this is complex.
Dude, it's not complex at all. This is high school math.
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@GrootDude said:
@Orion I’m just waiting till I surpass your total posts.
I haven't even surpassed Master's total posts. That's the final goal until I become the ultimate #1 - highest number of upvotes, highest number of downvotes, and highest post count. Before "Promote" became "BHVR Read", I'm fairly certain I also had the highest number of Promote reactions.
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@FSB75 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468063#Comment_468063
I don't know anything about these charges...but:
120 * .5 = 60
120 + 60 = 180 (3 minutes)
See my comment I linked you to above and see this video, empirically proving it lasts 4 minutes and not a second longer:
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@FSB75 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468098#Comment_468098
Not sure that's accurate. If I was increasing by 50%, the new number would be subtracted, not added. Also, the new number would be LESS than the base 2 minutes. In my math, I'm adding the extra time, in this case 50% more.
2 * .5 = 1
2 - 1 = 1 THIS is less time, meaning it's a faster timer.
I'll stand by my math on this one. I haven't timed the in games results. So I can't say it's working as intended. Faster you subtract, slower you add.
See here:
@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/466981#Comment_466981
@Almo If I walk at one meter per second, it takes me one second to move one meter.
If I walk at half a meter per second (half speed), it takes me two seconds (double the time) to walk one meter.
Speed is distance traveled divided by time spent. Thus, time spent is distance traveled divided by speed. If x is distance, t is time, and v is speed, you get this:
v = x/t
t = x/v
If v is reduced to v/2 and keeping the distance constant:
v/2 = x/t'
t' = x/(v/2)
t' = x*(2/v)
t' = 2*x/v
t' is, evidently, 2*t.
I'm available to work part-time, over the Internet, if you need someone to check your math.
Your math is wrong.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468471#Comment_468471
@Orion you certainly do not shitpost much but the point is u really post A LOT per day, like 40 post/daily? thats the reason
You mentioned you are bisexual, nothing wrong with that, can I maybe gain some down votes? xoxo
I don't troll/bait, if that's what you mean.
Even if I post a lot, my stalker went and downvoted even non-controversial stuff, like explaining how things work to people who asked. Trust me, it's all thanks to my stalker. I'd been waiting for my downvote count to surpass Mushwin's for a while, taking full advantage of the stalker's actions. Now I have. Hail to the king, baby.
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@Mushwin said:
Congrats @Orion lol
Well, it's easy when you have a stalker downvoting every comment you make. So thank you, stalker, whoever you are, for propelling me to the top of the leaderboard. I couldn't have done it without your irrational hatred for me. ;)
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Almost 800 and over 10k upvotes. Pretty sure I have the highest amount of both out of anyone on the forum.
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@GenSim12345 said:
the power looks kinda weak tbh. Unless he doesn't have a terror radius,and ghost has exposed on the power?
He is supposed to have no TR for a brief moment and does, in fact, make survivors Exposed.
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@George_Soros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468370#Comment_468370
@Orion Definitely not my intention. Not sure why you think that, I'm a 100% arguing against it.
I just meant people might actually want to see those creatures in the game. I mean, who wouldn't want to see a freaking Nazgûl killing people left and right?
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@George_Soros said:
Really, if a Xenomorph killer was introduced, what could come next? A nazgul? A vogon? A sandworm? Those of you who campaign for Alien: sorry, but it's sooooooo off. I don't even care about the lore that much, but there is a pattern: killers come from the real world, they're not mystical, not sci fi, nothing of the sort. Putting Alien in the game would make as much sense as putting an Alien in Breaking Bad.
And let us not forget, it would be horrible gameplaywise too. Either it's a true alien, then it would have to be OP, or it could be a balanced killer, but then it would not be Alien. Imagine four random guys armed with flashlights and toolboxes only in a closed area... no way they could escape a Xenomorph.
You do realize that by giving those examples, you're actually arguing for setting this precedent by introducing a Xenomorph, right?