NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@Yucchi said:
The fing is: you can be unsafely unhooked, both of you go down but killer hookes the other one knowing that your DS will deactivate. So what can an unsafely unhooked survivor do?
Be punished for the for the unsafe hook obviously. It's not tunneling if you down everyone.
Anyways I'd just make it so if we do this then it replaces the timer entirely. Level scales the stun length.
The idea is that this is supposed to be a sidegrade for game health rather than a direct nerf for balance.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791383#Comment_791383
Yup, that's every Killer in the game.
Unrelated, but I love your profile picture! Which of the Survivors is that again?
It's the new Nea skin
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791266#Comment_791266
Even when I, a killer player, come up with a survivor concept that even has a perk that a lot of survivors would like, they still complain about it. Can't please everyone.
OooOOoo that sounds fun. Link?
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@FriendlyGuy said:
I feel like there's a killer missing but i don't know which one. Help me guys.
Nope. That's all of them.
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Cutting someone off as Spirit after phasing from halfway across the map.
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A reaction is not the only kind of interaction and it is actually one of the least interesting.
Specifically because a reaction has a 100% correct answer. It is possible to program a bot with a perfect reaction time that will never be hit ever.
Predictions are an alternative form of interaction. Without a neural network or complex evolutionary algorithms you can't program an AI to reliably predict a Human. However a Human CAN predict another Human. This is because people are not perfectly random, especially if the options that can be predicted have distinct outcomes regardless of being predicted or not.
Other than reactions (seeing what someone does and preforming a counter strategy) and predictions (using what someone has done to project into what they will do and then counter that) there is teamwork and a bunch of misc skills used for execution rather than the interaction portion (ex: Aim, Strategy ect)
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@CrazyChicken_DK said:
Any off that, will give killers to much power.
What. The mindbreaker buff too much for you?
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No. Rank and using groups should not directly effect the games mechanics
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I'd rather use the approach of buffing Tier 1 in other ways such as giving him a normal lunge than re-adding spine chill/premonition immunity.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/790337#Comment_790337
As is Pig in her stealth mode. Same with Ghostface without addons. Wraith is the exception to the lower speed but at the cost of coming out of stealth.
Ghostface is 115%
His stealth doesn't slow him down.
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This is a sidegrade.
Undetectable means his terror radius is 0 without needing a perk. This is especially important for scratched mirror myers since he relies on having no TR so this just gives him an extra perk slot. Well worth occasionally being slightly less effective against Spine Chill users.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/790056#Comment_790056
What about the polar opposite... make TOTH make every totem appear to be a Hex Totem.
Similar effect and we get to see the pretty totems way more 😄
I'm down for it
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@Objectively_speaking said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/789891#Comment_789891
If you plan to remove one item which allows one side to complete the objective faster, the SAME must be applied to the other side.
Also you nerfed his add-ons and literally made most of them useless. (Duration/Gauge refill)
(Legion main)
Like I said, this includes a Key's rework. You don't need to tell me to remove them as we have them right now because I already did that on my own.
If anything you should be bugging me about not removing the Mori's because this thread doesn't cover that.
As for his addons... that's kinda the entire point of the thread. Make all addons for Killers the equivalent of most Yellow addons (with some addons being disproportionately weak or strong for their rarity being kept as is) and have rarity effect magnitude rather than strength with downsides to accomplish this. The end goal being that this allows us to make the addons not consumable and thus they can be used indefinitely as a form of customization rather than for a power boost.
So for Legion that means you can use Mischief List to get the existing Yellow duration addons effect. You can increase the duration further of course, but doing so means you can't use Frenzy as often to compensate.
But you need to understand that for this to work most items and addons needed to be nerfed. Not just legions.
Having the option to use the current iridescent button every game would make him broken. This is still a problem even now since the addon instead just makes him SOMETIMES broken.
Now there were a lot of addons to change with this so I'm sure you could fine addons that are still OP/UP with this in mind. But remember that the goal is to make most Killer addons to be equivalent to the strength of their yellow addons. So addons like Cold Dirt or Stolen Sketchbook must be nerfed.
The exception is Spirit who's addons are balanced to be the equivalent of their brown addons in terms of power for the most part due to her power only working within a narrow range of values. The addons that don't deal with her ability to catch you in a chase can be a bit stronger due to not effecting those values in the first place (such as fathers glasses or the passive phasing addons).
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It would be nice as a perk effect.
Thrill of the Hunt anyone?
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Why do you keep calling this a QoL change?
This is clearly a balance change. A QoL change would be an indication of when you would be past the point where kicking it won't proc the perk in time.
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@Objectively_speaking said:
1st off, if you removed moris, you also have to remove keys, and toolboxes because they both allow survivors to complete their objective quicker. Enjoy off, you seriously nerfed legion, again?
I reworked keys here and toolboxes don't have quite as big of an impact.
They do have a big impact don't get me wrong, but it's such that we can balance it to be equivalent to other items and Killer addons (unlike Keys which required more drastic changes)
And what do you mean I nerfed Legion?
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This would kill her viability.
Currently her power can be used for both bee-lining, Pallet mindgames, catching people who are pathing ect.
But with this you could ONLY use it for beelinging, since if you try to mindgame a loop they can just see you and react to whatever you do.
They don't have to predict you and thus there is no mindgame. You could only catch Survivors at already unsafe pallets/windows, but you don't need to be the Spirit to do that.
And if you try to cut them off by predicting their pathing then whelp too bad they can just see you doing it and not go there.
You cannot have a mindgame if you don't first have information denial. That's why Nurse doesn't mindgame people, she uses her mechanical power to down you. Same for Huntress.
Hag sometimes does mindgames with if she is teleporting to her traps or not, but that is only possible because the trap models look like her and it doesn't tell you what she is doing with them.
Nurse and Huntress have so many tells because they brute force loops. Spirit moves fast yes but doesn't actually stop you from using Windows and Pallets to get away, so she can't just rely on brute force. Thus her information denial is extremely important and without it her dynamic doesn't work.
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Really? Neet
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787536#Comment_787536
That's the point. It changes the way you play Pig. ;>
You're missing my point. For a power to have any thought to it there needs to be both a reason to use it and a reason not to. While some powers have more or less reasons depending on their design all of them have a reason of some sort. Passives don't apply here for obvious reasons of course.
For example:
Ghostface - Can be revealed and the power has a cooldown. Thus the reason not to use it is literally being unable to sometimes and using it when you don't have to will make you potentially unable to use it when it would actually help.
Wraith - You can't attack in stealth and require a long channel time to exit stealth
Shape - Stalking lowers your movement speed (the effects of each tier are passive)
Freddy - Teleporting takes time and is on a cooldown. Placing dream traps eventually makes other dream traps disappear.
Nurse - There is a fatigue afterwards and soon a cooldown
Billy - You move slower while charging your power and can't turn after you've finished charging
ect ect ect
Every single power in the game is like this, even with addons. But if you can crouch at the same speed as walking then there is literally 0 reason not to just use it always.
110% would be fine, especially with the aura reading. But not 115% unless it has a downside added onto the crouch.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/788516#Comment_788516
Cold Dirt has next to no effect after having been gutted. Like pretty much every Legion addon.
Could we not achieve the same level of balance by increasing the killer basekit and removing their addons altogether and have the killer's bloodweb be mainly perks and new offerings? Also why increase the prices of things? The game doesn't have an economy between players so changing the price still keeps the grind. Which is the whole point is to lessen the grind why add any extra inhibitors.
Cold Dirt was my example specifically because it's effect isn't very large. Even a small effect like that can throw things off balance when it's absence is what's used as the baseline, either because it becomes required or subtly overpowered (the former in this case)
We could remove addons entirely, but then we would lose any potential benefit we could have gotten from them, and we'd need to do the same for items not from chests (which to be fair would make chests far more important). This would be identity V's approach so it could definitely work. I just think we can do better than that.
And the reason why we would increase prices of stuff is because there is less stuff to get. Currently the majority of each bloodweb is items and addons. But if only one of each item/addon can appear per prestige then that won't carry you for 50 bloodwebs and you'd quickly end up with only offerings and perks.
While I'd love to also add more offerings along side this (and have a separate post on that) it wouldn't be very good for the bloodweb. So we'd need to have each web be much smaller to ensure that the addons can be spread out throughout the entire thing. So thus to ensure that it still takes time to complete the bloodweb the prices of everything but offerings would need to go up to ensure that the total cost of a bloodweb stays about the same.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think keys are fine right where they are. As others have pointed out, it's already rare to see someone with a key. And if you really don't want them using it, kill them at the earliest chance, or dodge the lobby. As for keys found in chests, just kill the person carrying it, or bring Franklin's Demise. Personally, if I get a key from a chest, I'll just hide it on the ground somewhere (where other survivors are unlikely to find it) and save it for later if needed.
If keys get removed, then a lot of things on the killer's side should also be removed.
There is no if.
Key's and things like Mori's should be removed. The other things on that list being removed or not is irrelevent, they all need to go for their own independent reasons.
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@ReikoMori said:
I understand the logic you're working with, but I think it would have the opposite effect you're seeking. I think the game is would become much more unbalanced if you just always had add-ons. The best balancing factor is the fact that addons are these fleeting edges of power that you have to acquire on a regular basis and manage when you think it is worth using. The fact they are transient also gives more design room to try out new things. Like Add-ons that alter how a killer players for a single game is great boon. It makes certain builds objectively top seed, but still rare enough that it doesn't throw the entire game in the trash.
Take, bodyblocker Hag for instance. Objectively, that's one of the best builds in the game. Having collision on phantasms is such a huge boon that it changes the way both killers and survivors respond in the game. Always being able to choose to have that in some for or fashion would start to very much outstrip doing other things. Also, in terms of scale you're asking for a monumental overhaul of the game that would take multiple years of work. It just doesn't seem feasible.
You have posed a very interesting take on how the game could have potentially been though. Which may have made things better off in the long run.
Body blocker Hag is not a straight upgrade from normal Hag. She has weaknesses that the normal Hag doesn't, most important of which is that her map pressure is much worse due to the fact that her Traps don't do anything if she isn't already there.
This puts Body blocker Hag on a similar level strength wise to the normal Hag.
Regardless though the point is that Rarity ISN'T a balancing method. Things like Mori's, Key's, iridescent hatchets ect are unbalanced regardless of how many games they appear in.
And while it's not nearly as obvious, even things like Cold Dirt and basic Toolboxes are unbalanced as well, not because the effects are super broken like the ones I listed a second ago are, but because they exist in a game which is balanced around them NOT existing.
a team of 4 Survivors running toolboxes or medkits requires stronger Killers to beat than a team of Survivors with nothing. And vice versa for Killers with their best addons vs Killers with brown or no addons.
So long as this is the case balance is impossible, no matter how many changes we make to curb extreme examples. Because it's not just the extremes that cause these imbalances but even little numbers changes from medium tier addons can require a Killer to be bad at basekit and then let the addons boost them back up.
None of this would be an issue if addons weren't consumable. Killers would just always bring their best addons to counter the tools that Survivors are also always bringing, but just doing that without any other changes would obviously break the game. Hence... the entirety of this thread defining those other changes.
But regarding feasibility: Most (but not all) of the changes here are to numbers. For example with the Doctor addons the only new thing that needs to be implemented would be the mode changes taking variable amounts of time. The rest is just swapping around existing effects.
And you mention this would take years? I agree, it probably would. So here's how you could implement this gradually:
- Step 1 - Preform the addon changes for each individual Killer/Item over time. No need to go through with the making them permanents part, just do the reworks.
Each item on this list is intended to be roughly equivalent to an exiting combo of a yellow item + 2 brown addons. For Killers it's 2 yellow addons with a few exceptions depending on the strength of the Killer's basekit. Since brown addon usage is sustainable this part wouldn't throw off the games balance
- Step 2 - Once all addons and items have been changed in accordance with these design goals. Make them permanents.
- Step 3 - At the same time as step 2 shrink the bloodweb and increase individual prices to maintain the grind
- Step 4 - Profit
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Easy way to balance it:
This hypothetical medkit doesn't allow for self healing.
So you can only use it to heal others but can do so indefinitely.
Alternatively if we want it to allow for self caring then it could be that healing others doesn't consume charges but it only has 16 charges for if you want to heal yourself.
I had a similar idea regarding alex's toolbox and sabotaging.
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also First hook Suicides doesn't deny things like BBQ and PGTW ect
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Suicide on the hook doesn't deny nearly as much BP as DCing does.
Otherwise yeah they are the same.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
Killers have Mori. Survivors have keys.
Doesn't mean they should
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How does the key rework I have in this post look?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/91361/major-addon-item-and-overall-progression-rework
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@Jallybwan said:
In terms of how Amanda's Letter and Rules Set No.2 should be reworked, I think it's fair enough to say that one should compliment her stealth, and the other should compliment her ambush, both at the expense of her RBTs.
Potential ideas:
Amanda's Letter - Removes all RBTs and Jigsaw Boxes. Aura reading increased to 20m. Speed while crouching increased to 115%.
Rules Set No.2 - Removes all RBTs and Jigsaw Boxes. Dash speed increased to 230%. Dash duration increased to 4 seconds.
Why would you ever not crouch with Amanda's letter?
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They don't. It just doesn't reward you that much.
You lose nothing when a Survivor DC's. A game where all 4 Survivors DC in the first second doesn't instantly drain your BP or anything.
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It already has one.
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@SpacingLlamas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787289#Comment_787289
Giving it to Insidious would just grant it the immune to aura perks part. Since both the terror radius and red stain are removed already. I don't think it's necessary but with the devs trying to make a bunch things in the game all of sudden have "consistency", I guess it should eventually
Reason I bring it up is that the #1 counter to insidious camping is Kindred, and since no one likes Insidious camping this interaction is a healthy one.
But making Insidious counter Kindred rather than the other way around would make it worse in terms of game health. Hence why it could easily be a problem.
DD and Tinkerer don't have this problem however.
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I'm fine with it on Dark Devotion and even Tinkerer. But what about insidious?
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@VSLl said:
2.2.0
- The Spirit: Reduced the terror radius to 24 meters: down from 32 meters
- The Spirit: The sound made while using her power has been reduced in volume
- The Spirit: Survivors will not hear the Spirit sound (when she uses her power) when they are within 8m from the husk
- The Spirit: Removed visibility of blood from injured survivors while using her power
- The Spirit: Slightly increased the duration of the passive phase effect
- The Spirit: Fixed the lunge distance so it is consistent with other regular speed killers (also fixed Huntress and Hag)
2.2.1
- Reduced the default recharge time of the Spirit's power from 20 seconds to 15 seconds
2.3.0
- The Spirit's phasing audio has been adjusted: Survivors within the Spirit Husk's terror radius will not hear the phasing sound. Survivors outside the Spirit Husk's terror radius can hear the Spirit's phasing sound, but will not be able to determine its direction. Survivors will no longer be able to hear the Spirit's breathing while she is phasing.
MY GOD IS SUCH A BUFF. Everything that is written about the Spirit in the named patches. All this fix bugs and fixes. The only buff she had was changing the cooldown of an ability from 20 seconds to 15. That's it.
OH MY GOD, WHAT A BUFF, IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY.
Non-directional phase noises, lower cooldown, lower TR and no hearing phase sound in the TR are all neither bug fixes nor QoL
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@ChiTenshi said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/264/1V318HA5IY9I.jpg
This, and pretty much most other anti-gen perks do a better job one way or another.
There are situations that do allow it to excel and be better than the other perks, but these are few and far between.
Ruin isn't comparable.
Use PGTW as your comparison instead.
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Void Strike is now 4 meters at basekit.
Alters now take 4 seconds to use and usage is revealed to the Killer, but no longer Injures you.
Void Strike never instant downs but can be recast if you have extra souls and requires at least 1 soul to use.
Void Strike can be used to teleport to active Alters.
Reap has 8 meters of range instead of 10 meters.
Some addons are changed to accommodate these.
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@Zenbe10 said:
Bloody coil is not an incentive to lose a health state, it is a disincentive to disarming trams. Freddy and Clown movement speed slowdowns are location-based, not permanent conditions. Freddy’s action speed slow downs are only to some actions, not all. And those killer builds are gimmick add-on builds, not base powers.
The reason I have not offered many solutions is because I don’t want to tell you how to make your killer or hijack your idea. I don’t claim to be able to “make a better Reaper” than you can. I fully believe that you are the one who can make the best version, considering it is your concept, but other perspectives can help you get there. However, if you do want my take (while considering your preferences) here it is:
Primary Power: Soul Thief
· You may charge your Scythe for 2 seconds to ready your power, gradually slowing down to 3.6 M/S (90%) during the charge (average of 100% M/S if released immediately).
· Releasing the charge will reap all healthy or injured Survivors within a 10 meter radius regardless of obstacles, causing them to scream and granting you their soul.
· Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters per soul in your possession.
· Soulless survivors preform ALL actions 10% slower including movement and vaulting.
· The Reaper can’t pick up or hook soulless survivors.
· To regain their soul Survivors must head to the single sacrificial alter. A survivor may interact with the alter for four seconds to reclaim their soul. When a survivor retrieves their soul from the alter, the Reaper gets a notification and can immediately teleport to the alter.
· The Reaper can interact with the alter to sacrifice all souls in his possession. These souls are returned to their respective survivors. The auras of survivors whose souls are returned are revealed to the Reaper for 60 seconds and those survivors suffer from the exposed status effect for 60 seconds.
Secondary Power: Void Strike
· While holding at least one soul of a survivor, the Reaper may teleport forward in a very fast attack in a straight line, which is interrupted by obstacles such as pallets, walls, and vaults. The first survivor that is passed through in this line is hit by an attack.
· Soulless survivors lose one health state.
· Survivors who have their souls are immediately put into the dying state.
Obviously this has problems too (again I don’t claim to have the best possible solution) but I think it fits thematically with a reaper because the reaper should want to chase survivors WITH souls. If a reaper already have someone’s soul, why are they trying to kill them? And being able to teleport to the alter after a soul is regained has the same essence of the health state sacrifice idea (makes it very dangerous for an injured survivor to do it and makes a healthy survivor very likely to take a hit), but requires time dedication by the killer. I can share more of my rationale of course. I appreciate the discourse as well.
Now THIS is something I can work with.
Things that are good:
- Replacing direct injury with being able to teleport to a Survivor at an alter
- Survivors with souls being instant downed instead of the soulless
- Void Strike requiring a Soul
Now as for everything else:
- I do want Void Strike to have Crowd Control usage. One idea would be that it can be recast if you have additional souls AND actually got a hit off (in which case it wouldn't need to instant down at all), in otherwords if you have 4 souls then you could Void Strike 4 times back to back before having the attack cooldown, but if you have 1 soul then you use it once and are done
- Not being able to pick up soulless Survivors would be terrible. You need them to be soulless if you want to have a good chance of downing people. Remember that the debuff is already incentive to go for Survivors with Souls (who are repairing gens at full speed).
- While I get what you are going for, I don't like the idea of the Reaper returning everyone's souls.
Anyways I'll make some edits to the OP with all of this in mind.
Btw the idea behind Suggestions being MUCH better than complaints isn't that you can make a better Reaper, but that you can make a DIFFERENT Reaper which I can then use as a point of comparison. Having an alternative means even if I don't like everything I'll have something to work with for figuring out solutions.
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It's a deliberate attempt to make you feel bad/ruin your experience.
Thus toxicity is a matter of intent so for any given "toxic" action it's less "X action is toxic" and more "people do X in order to be toxic".
In otherwords no action is ALWAYS toxic, including tbagging. Actions done strategically are never toxic for example.
Also Plague, she's toxic.
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Addons and items exist.
Even if everyone was balanced at basekit the game would still be unbalanced just by the nature of these things existence.
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All of that being said, thanks for not just saying "Killer sucks reeee". What you are saying is certainly way better than something like that <3
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Btw, all of these things actually DO exist in the game somewhere:
Sacrificing health states - Bloody Coil Trapper
Movement speed slowdown - Freddy and Clown
Action speed Slowdown - Freddy (with addons)
Sub 115% Killer with no movement/range - Scratched Mirror Myers/Tombstone Myers/Body-blocker Hag
This may be the only Killer that has all of it at once, but it's not like these idea's are completely non-existent elsewhere. Plus even if they weren't it wouldn't be a reason not to implement it, since every Killer is at least somewhat unique. Just because it doesn't currently exist somewhere doesn't mean it's a core balance concept, and even if it was that doesn't mean we can't implement it anyways by just properly designing around it like I am attempting to here with my violation of the "110% = hardcounters pallets/windows" rule.
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@Zenbe10 said:
Freddy's slow-down effects are only to repair, sabotage, and healing speeds. This killer would slow down those actions plus: searching, totem breaking, unhooking, exit gate opening, vaulting, and movement speed (at all times) with up to 16% to ALL these actions with add-ons. Not to mention add-ons that apply mangled and broken status effects at brown and yellow, which makes the health state sacrifice even more insane.
Freddy isn't the best example here. Survivors have an independent way of getting out of the dream world through the clock (without a health state sacrifice), a cooperative way of getting out of the dream world through waking each other up, AND are automatically pulled from the dream world when hooked. The Reaper as it stands has ONLY the independent way of getting your soul back, plus a huge penalty for doing so.
I'm not sure I agree that any power can be balanced. As I've pointed out, this power already subverts several balance principles of the game: it encourages survivors to sacrifice health states (not currently in the game), it includes action speed slowdown debuffs (including movement speed) as part of the base kit (not currently in the game), and is a 110% killer with no range or movement abilities (not currently in the game).
Despite my main criticism being the punishment for regaining your soul being far too much, you seem to still be of the opinion that it is "necessary" and not open to change. I'm not sure how I can help when my suggestions are brushed aside like that. You asked for feedback and I gave it, you can do with it what you will of course. I don't have a horse in this race, I just wanted to offer my perspective. If you decide that your killer is good as is despite my opinion, then more power to you. It's your creation.
Necessary doesn't mean not open to change. It just means that any changes would need to ensure the function of the mechanic is maintained and that it's removal comes with a substitute which fulfils the same function: in this case the function is ensuring that despite being able to regain their souls they won't do so continuously despite its effects.
In theory there could be other methods of doing this. I just felt like injury was the one that solves the most problems that's the one I went with.
The only thing that I'm 100% unwilling to change is the core premise of the soul thief mechanic (the actual take soul and inflict omni-debuff part), everything else around that is just making it work and further defining the playstyle including the magnitude of the debuff.
I'd like to remind you that you only gave 1 suggestion despite trying to bring up a lot of problems, specifically the "can only take the souls of healthy Survivors". And because of the crippling flaws behind that solution it isn't one that could be implemented.
It's not that I'm against feedback or anything like that. I've ended up massively changing my own suggestions based off feedback before, but in order to do that you (and anyone else giving feedback) need to be trying to do this from the perspective of solving problems and not poking holes in the idea. (Poking holes is still something you should do but ultimately it's just the means to an end).
As for why anything can be balanced, just remember that balance is a mathematical statistic. So long as there are continuous variables that can be tweaked there is some set of numbers that fall within the range of effectiveness called "balanced". So a last resort could be to just alter the magnitude of the debuff as the Killers Movement Speed until the end result is a balanced Killer (doing so has it's own problems, but they are non-balance issues so that's different).
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This seems OP.
Moris are bad enough, we don't need more super high impact offerings and searching chests is niche enough.
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@Zenbe10 said:
Numbering for simplicity:
1. Void Strike giving souls back to injured survivors is not negative utility because you still get to use Void Strike, which sounds like it’s effectively a Nurse blink (which has 333% movement speed) with no charge up time. Also apparently it can hit multiple survivors at once, which makes taking a hit for a survivor you just unhooked completely useless (which is one of the best tools survivors have against tunneling). And if the survivor being chased has no soul, then the Reaper is effectively a 120% speed killer that has applied the exposed status effect to that survivor already.
2. I think you’re forgetting that a 10% debuff to all actions is BRUTAL. It increases time for survivors to traverse the map to reach generators AND to get hook saves. Think of how often survivors need to mad dash in a straight line across the map when they realize their teammates are about to reach second stage / death on the hook and even at full speed they often don’t make it in time. It decreases healing speed to help other soulless survivors get healed so they can get their soul back and then need to reheal after they get their soul back. I can’t fathom how it sounds like a good idea to have a power that incentives the following scenario:
3. Picture this: You are a survivor that is being chased by the Reaper. The Reaper catches up enough to steal your soul, which is not hard as a 110% killer to get in a 10m range of a survivor (see Huntress). The Reaper then smacks you once as you cross a vault (again, not hard for a 110% killer to do), then Void Strikes you with a pseudo-Nurse blink to the ground at your next open running phase of the chase. You are then hooked with no soul. You are saved by another survivor (who potentially takes 10% longer to reach you because they are soulless themselves, which could cause you to go to second phase). That survivor then heals you (potentially with a 10% penalty due to being soulless themselves) and you have to run at 90% movement speed to an exposed position where you get back your soul at an alter after four whole seconds of standing there. You are then, once again, injured. You have to be healed again by a teammate (potentially with a 10% penalty due to being soulless). Then you run to a generator, only for the Reaper to show up. The Reaper then steals your soul, and the process starts all over again, if you are lucky enough not to be Void Striked to the ground due to being exposed and being dead on hook. I'm sure killer mains would love how this keeps survivors completely unable to do generators. But there is NO WAY that any survivor player would find this fair or fun or balanced.
4. I think you are also forgetting that no other killer has passive slowdown effects for actions as part of their power. Huntress, Spirit, and Hag (the other 110% killers) do not have any sort of 10% action slowdown associated with them. Plague’s power has no action speed slowdown. Freddy’s Dream World has no action speed slowdown. The reason for this is that if a killer like Reaper were to use perks like Hex: Ruin, thanatophobia, dying light, etc. it would be atrocious.
5. I don’t understand why you point out that other 110% killers in the game have specific range or mobility elements to their power and then specifically avoid having this killer have either of those. They are designed that way for a reason. And you have pointed out those reasons in your posts. To try and compensate for not having either of those utility portions of the power by making the power instead impossible to counter, you are setting this killer concept up for failure.
6. If the power is either so oppressive that it’ll cause DCs or so weak that the killer will be bottom-tier, then the power needs to be reworked.
Although no basekit ability has a direct slowdown effect, there are plenty of indirect slowdown effects, and addons which have direct slowdown, Freddy with the Jump rope addon for example has a 10% action speed slowdown and is much easier to apply then the soulless effect. Stacking with swinging chains it's 21% slowdown to be exact, which is a bigger slowdown than this Killers even with addons.
That makes sense of course since the slowdown is for movement as well, but the point is that you CAN make it work.
Additional Freddy also can teleport and slows your movement speed by a minimum of 15% if you try to loop him.
In anycase though, no power is ever impossible to balance. If you want to help then focus on assisting in solving the problems you come up with rather than just stopping there. There are plenty of numbers to tweak afterall.
For example: If the punishment for getting your soul back is too much considering the difficulty for taking it, then since the punishment itself is necessary that means the difficulty for applying it is the one that can change instead.
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Anyways my solution is to smile.
I'd love to do something else but it's just so satisfying to see someone get so tilted over losing.
Of course I'm always happy to give tips on how to not lose in the future, but if someone is going to call me something I'm not then well... keep doing it because I can't help but smile when you do.
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@Shura37 said:
Honestly, try to view it as funny. You made this person so mad that they felt the need to lash out. I get a good laugh when people message me and insult me because, it's a damn game. I know it isn't as easy as it sounds but like they say gg ez on a 1 person hatch escape, all you gotta think (or better yet, say) is "Ah, is that why 3 of your teammates died?". It's fun to see the B.S. excuses they come up with. "UH WELL You camped." "UH WELL You tunneled." "Yeah well I don't even have my normal build so." All it is is some random guy on the internet who is upset because he didn't have a perfect game. Try to think of it that way and hopefully you can start laughing at it.
It's not my fault.
I'm just wearing a blindfold
And I'm not even trying
And it isn't even me playing, it's my little brother
And I'm not even born yet anyways
Also someone came in and unplugged the controller.
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Sloppy Butcher on Spirit.
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depends on the Killer used for comparison of course. But in general there is a harder initial learning curve for Survivors, while the Skill requirement for most Killers is more backended.
In otherwords:
While Killers are easy to learn but hard to master, Survivor is just hard in general.
This results in low ranks being much easier for Killer than Survivor, while if Survivor was easier to play it would be the other way around.
And the same deal at high ranks. Getting into red ranks has a sudden difficulty spike since you start facing the Survivors that actually have mastered the role, so the simple brute force tactics that would work up until green, maybe purple ranks suddenly stop working and now you need to figure out red glow mindgames, juggling, advanced power usages ect ect ect.
This also shows with the exceptions such as Nurse, Spirit, Hag and Huntress who are for various reasons harder to play as than the average Killer (Nurse and Huntress are more precise while Spirit and Hag take more planning to use properly) but preform disproportionately well at high ranks compared to other Killers.
Compare Killers like Leatherface or Clown who can easily stomp on noobs but struggle when dealing with optimal Survivors.
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While I still disagree with it, I don't think people get what a 50% Killrate actually means.
2k every game is 50/50 sure. But if the game has a 50% Kill rate then the best Killer should still be 4king. After all 4 2k's is just as much a 50/50 Kill rate as 2 0k's and 2 4k's. Both sets meet that basic requirement, so a 2k average being balanced doesn't mean every game being a 2k is ideal.
In fact, but if the game is balanced around a 2k average then we should expect no games to actually be a 2k. This is because balance is about winrates, not Kill rates. The Kill rates still matter due to the individual nature of Survivors and so it still means something to say "balance around a 2k average", since you use the ideal Kill rate to calculate the average ideal winrate (which is 50% for a 2k average), but since a 2k is not a win for the Killer but is a win for exactly 50% of Survivors that means every game being a 2k is not actually balanced regardless of the devs statement about ideal Kill rates.
Long story short for a 2k average to be balanced every game must be either a 0k or a 4k with equal frequency. Since this end result is not ideal I must disagree with the devs 2k average ideal.
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@Zenbe10 said:
"To regain their soul Survivors must head to one of 3 Sacrificial alters. While healthy a Survivor may take 4 seconds to sacrifice a health state at an alter to become injured but regain their soul. Alters cannot be used while the Survivor is injured."
This... is too much. There should not be a negative penalty for removing a negative condition. This would be akin to losing a health state after removing a Pig trap, losing a health state after using a Freddy alarm clock, losing a health state after cleansing at a Plauge fountain, losing a health state after snapping out of it from the Doctor, losing a health state after escaping a Trapper bear trap (which can only happen with a very rare add-on)... In fact, there is no method in the game for a survivor to purposefully lose a health state to avoid a negative effect, and it's that way for a reason.
Add on to this that unhealthy survivors are permanently stuck with the massive debuff with no way of removing it without healing and then immediately going BACK to being injured makes this oppressive. Plus sacrificing a health state is pointless if your soul can be immediately reaped again while you're still injured from regaining your soul. PLUS you're effectively exposed against a killer with an increased lunge distance and at a 5% speed decrease as compared to a chase with a 115% killer if you ignore getting your soul back and just heal. A power like this would be way too frustrating for survivors, and you'd get people DCing after their soul gets reaped (especially if they're hooked afterwards) because the grind to get back to a normal health state is crazy and easily/instantly undone.
As a final note on the logistics of this power, there is no restriction on stealing the souls of downed or hooked survivors. So you could steal someone's soul, Void Strike them so they go down and regain their soul, then steal their soul again before you hook them. The Reaper should definitely only be able to steal souls from completely healthy survivors, and even then I think this power with no other changes is still very over-powered. (P.S. Why does Void Strike not regrant a survivor their soul if they're already injured? It's still a vastly improved attack)
Lets say we do your solution and make him only be able to steal souls from healthy Survivors.
Why on earth would I ever heal against this Killer as a Survivor then? People already are willing to not cleanse against Plague who injures them AND makes them super loud AND haves them leave a mark on everything they touch AND is 115%.
This Killer doesn't have any special effects on Survivors who have their soul, so if everyone just doesn't heal then you've denied him his power AND he's a 110% Killer so no one is going to be worried about looping him.
Even if he was 115% he still would have the same problem as Plague but even worse since Plague has her own list of benefits to having infected Survivors. And we can only change so much before we aren't even talking about the same Killer that we started with.