NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@Ebisek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773225#Comment_773225
In the case of a game against killers with poor map control?
You're trying to make it rocket science. Sluging is easy. First downed is used like a lure. You have to be altruistic and save others. And this is that moment when you have two survivors in one place, same like a unhooking, healing.
Argument "never stay together" is not valid for survivors. Also, sluging all 4 is harder. But when 3 or 2 survivors left? Its a common strategy to slug first one, find the hatch and waiting for moment when sluged survivor rise from ground.
Slugging a single person is easy.
Slugging an entire team is not. Even with 3 Survivors.
And if there is only 2 Survivors left AND 1 is already down AND the gates aren't already powered then the Killer had to accomplish quite a bit to get there and you are in a losing position by design.
The perk in this case is letting you sometimes win where you should lose. Since losing is the expected outcome in the 2v1 with 1 slugged example and is already balanced around the fact that you'd need a perk to come back from it in most cases is not a problem that needs solving.
This is just like how a perk is needed to maintain yourself as a threat if the gates are powered with 4 Survivors alive, several if you want to capitalize on it properly. This isn't a problem since it being hard to win when you are losing is kinda just like... duh.
And like you said it's basically just like unhooking. The difference between picking someone up from a slug and an unhook is that you can trade forever and if you get out then the Killer has accomplished nothing making the entire thing high risk.
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@Ebisek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/773078#Comment_773078
OK, but here is another problem. I have 4 perk slots.
Borrowed time for cases when killer camping the hook.
Decisive strike for cases of tunneling (also very often).
Unbreakable for avoiding sluging.
And last slot for calm spirit to fix broken doctor ability when you stacking though the doc is walking in different direction 30m away of you?
Please add new perk to fix the hits over pallets and desync with server. Everyone will buy this new DLC to carry these perks to fix broken game.
There is a difference between needing a perk slot so you don't auto lose from the start vs using a perk to cover a weakness of either you or the average team.
You don't NEED a perk to counter slugging, since countering slugging just requires making sure at least 2 players aren't being slugged at any given moment, which just means 95%ing while slugged and staying away from other slugged Survivors if there is more than one while the other Survivors go in to pick you up.
If you are in the point where none of the Survivors you are matched with are able to do this then yes taking Unbreakable is a valid stop-gap to solve the issue until more people learn to deal with the strategy better.
Compare that to Prayer Beads where if you don't have Spine Chill you lose. Normally Spine Chill works to cover the weakness of being surprised without realizing the Killer is heading for you. The perk isn't the only way to do that but it is the easiest. But since the entire point of Prayer Beads is that it makes knowing the Killer is coming impossible that makes you rely on the Perk which is bad.
But that's NOT what is happening here. Slugging is not strong enough that you can't win against it without a build to counter it, so using a build to cover it anyways is dealing with a personal weakness rather than being a required perk in general. And since you could have done fine without it, if you DON'T do fine without it then it's perfectly ok to use the perk. That's what it's there for.
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@MechanicalWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772911#Comment_772911
Ah that's hot
That's hot
That explains why the campfire is hot but doesn't burn. It's just an illusion to hide the Wraiths shimmer and it's really just invisible sex.
When you use an offering they just take it and do... whatever it is they do with offerings.
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772897#Comment_772897
I don't tea bag at all, i play both so i know what it's like. I also like to play stealthy so i don't tend to get into to many chases. I don't really go for the flashy clothing either so i shouldn't stand out that much. I pick perks like urban evasion/spine chill/self care(can't rely on teammates to heal)/prove thyself. I play more on the stealthy side so killers don't see me much. I'm not the greatest at jukeing and looping but after today thats changed. I don't think i'm doing to get the killers on me, i think i've just had the worse bad luck to break statistics. i've gone from rank 9 to 7 today.
Yeah idk then. I'd just keep playing and see if it stops since statistically it shouldn't happen even with an active effort from the Killer to tunnel as much as possible.
It might be because you were a weak looper and thus once they found you they got a quick down and just kept doing that, but so long as you improve there like you say you've been doing that explanation won't stay true for long.
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@The_Sly_Fox said:
That's like saying the Wraith is invisible just staring at them on the campfire!
I knew it! The Wraith and Spirit were making out over there the whole time!
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The term power role only makes sense when comparing individual members, since otherwise the term is the same as saying "the role that is overpowered", when it's more useful to say "the role who's members are stronger"
The Killer is stronger than a Survivor even if he isn't stronger than all 4 of them combined, but since he's still stronger than a Survivor in a 1 to 1 comparison he's still the power role.
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Also what rank are you in?
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772802#Comment_772802
Because with the excepection of the odd game here and there, killers have always ran straight back to my hook or completely ignored all other survivors. I did just have a game where the killer chose to tunnel every other survivor but me.
Ok.
Why?
Killers don't know you specifically. And statistically even if every Killer would tunnel one person the whole game like you are suggesting that'd still would only lead to you being tunneled 25% of the time.
So the only explanation is that something you do for whatever reason makes Killers more likely to want to tunnel you.
Maybe you tbag a lot, maybe the loops you use trigger people, maybe your skin is super eye catching, I haven't seen you play so I can't say what it is.
But if you (and not your entire team one by one) are being tunneled as often as you say you are then that doesn't add up unless something you are doing makes you more likely to be tunneled.
Can you describe your playstyle, build and Survivor to me please?
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772792#Comment_772792
All day 99% of the matches i've been and it's not like they're even getting an easy kill for it. I've never had a day like this before. If i knew that getting back to purple ranks was going to make me a target of nearly every killer i wouldn't of bothered. The worse thing is the waiting to get to a new game is stupidly long just to be forced into another marathon.
What about the games where it's someone else being tunneled.
Why do you think it's always specifically you?
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772730#Comment_772730
They're being done just not quick enough in most cases for me to run right out a open door.
I get that.
I'm saying that isn't something you should be blaming the Killer for. Not that it doesn't end up screwing you over, because it obviously does.
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772695#Comment_772695
Not all the randoms i'm being paired with are that great, plus there is so much time wasted before hand looking for the ruin totem.
I'm not saying you did something wrong. Just that the Killer didn't either if the gens aren't being done anyways.
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772594#Comment_772594
It's not even being done quickly, i'm just being in a chase for so long.
Then that should be plenty of time for your team to do the gens.
If the gens are not being done then it's the other Survivors you should be complaining about, not the Killer.
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part of the process in "gitting gud" is figuring out which strategy is the most effective.
If the Killer is able to tunnel you out of the game quickly then that is a good Killer and the problem is not his skill, but either your skill or the game design itself depending on the specifics of the complaint.
If the Killer tried to tunnel you but takes far too long doing it then there is no problem. An inefficient strategy is directly punished by it's own inefficiency. No need for an artificial punishment on top of it.
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@Frosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772343#Comment_772343
Hex: heavy hitter
This perk requires 3 tokens to activate. Each successful strike landed gains a token and a hook/mori spends 3. While this perk is active, injured survivors suffer from the broken status effect until the tokens are spent or totem is cleansed
Yeah sounds good.
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@Frosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771759#Comment_771759
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772081#Comment_772081
What would the perk look like then. If it, say becomes a hex perk, it would have to be a fair amount stronger then 10 hits.
of course not. It'd probably be more like 3 hits and resetting on a hook
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@Frosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771732#Comment_771732
Well it looks like this would affect someone like you as a base game mechanic. A perk though could be a decent compromise.
Oh yeah as a perk it's fine.
The idea of "I have trouble with this specific situation so I should make a build to make it easier" is distinct from "I have trouble with this specific situation so it should always be completely overhauled at all times no matter what".
That way by having this mechanic you are giving something up. Specifically a perk slot.
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Moonwalking Survivors: I'ma do what's called a pro-gamer move.
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@Frosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771656#Comment_771656
Well at least you explain yourself. I don't think that it would affect nearly enough people for it to pressure the meta or even really affect anyone's play style.
Not being sarcastic, but how many times do you get hit in a game, typically?
quite a few due to having an altruistic playstyle.
I usually get healed 3-5 times (and have a build which ensures this doesn't waste nearly as much time as it normally does) plus the 2 after each unhook.
So I'd estimate 8-11 total hits in a reasonable game. And of course on the extreme but less common ends it can be 0 if we get out super fast and the Killer just never chases me or something silly like 18 if the game drags on for awhile.
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don't like this idea.
Could work as a perk but the existence of healing is a very important tool for both sides. Having it eventually run out would ripple effect into causing other aspects of the game to suffer, even if the mechanic doesn't come into play directly.
More to the point however it nerfs Survivor tools that aren't in need of a nerf, causing them to be even further reliant on the extremely strong tools they DO have leading to a meta even more stale than it already is.
Killers do need buffs, but this one isn't going to solve anything.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/770503#Comment_770503
that statement sort of felt like it dodged the question. Ghostface getting revealed by hooked and down survivors annoys the killer more than it does anything to shrink the gap between SWF and Solo. Changes like that intentionally make the killer power weaker for no reason.
The gap between SWF and Solo stems from base game play, not from external interactions between killer powers. Communication through 3rd party programs provides information that shouldn't be accessible in the game. For example, A single person running object of obsession gives entire survivor team near perfect and complete information for what the killer is doing when the perk is suppose to be only for the player using it. They also gain access to perks like Kindred, Alert, Bond, Better together and Empathy, on top of all that, they also get all meta-powerful perks. I mean just imagine being to select 10 perks on killer, It would probably be pretty crazy. Using all these information perks, they can accelerate the game tempo because of enhanced coordination. They also mess up a lot of killer powers for example, Hag/Trapper traps lose their surprise factor or status effects like Knockout/Blindness lose their potency. SWF is like only thing in the game where you get no negatives and just massive buffs to survivor for free. It would be fine for SWF to exist the way it does now, but only if the base game was balanced for that. In my personal opinion, Playing SWF and using it properly is kinda like cheating now for most of the M1 killers. On the bright side, only like 10% of the matches are SWF so only 10% of your matches are miserable. I would like to imagine how it would be if it was every match. In that regard, It's not that big of an issue if it only affected smaller portion of the games but it's still in the game.
actually, while only 10% are 4 mans, about 50% of games contain SWF players.
If a 2 man duo is close enough to solo for you then fair enough, but otherwise it's far more than 10%.
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@ThatOneGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771117#Comment_771117
Knocked and downed are the same thing. You’re on the floor for both terms
Knocked could just be any time you are struck. It doesn't imply being in the dying state because injuring and downing can both be described as knocking someone
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/770922#Comment_770922
That's very vague.
Can you provide some sort of example scenario?
Spirit.
Don't even need to change anything. Right now she is currently able to handle SWF.
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@Raccoon said:
There is literally no possible killer buff that could compensate for survivors constantly having the same info/co-operative potential as a 4 man SWF each and every game.
Of course there is.
SWF do not have literally infinite power, so we just set Killer power equal to SWF's large but finite power and then bam problems solved.
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@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/770696#Comment_770696
Those are buffs which should be available NOW, or months ago. Not "just cause solos need to be considered".
Sure but in the event that Solo's are buffed up to SWF level these camp buffs are designed to work against SWF, thus it would work anyways.
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@Francis_Rogers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/82751/builds-ideas-with-stranger-things-perks
I really love your 'Objectives Master' build. I'm gonna use it for Detective Tapp on Xbox One for sure! 😉
Especially good now that it's being buffed :D
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Those ones
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@Mr_K said:
What buffs can be given to killers to balance with buffed solos?
@NuclearBurrito said:
Basically, I've made some threads that proposed how I would fix the low tier Killers.
The way I define my tier lists is such that A tier is the target for viability, with B tier being able to get results but are still not quite viable.
For C and D tier Killers as well as the clown due to his borderline status drastic changes are needed either to their fundamental mechanics or to their numbers. For B tier this isn't generally the case, but something is still needed for these Killers. Now to be more specific:
Ghostface
- Decrease the cooldown on night shroud by 5 seconds
- Decrease the initial detection zone size to pre-hotfix size (to prevent overcompensation)
- While ghostface is in the Survivor's LoS but not being revealed with at least 20% visability the detection zone increases up to a maximum of 12% (3x the effect of the hotfix) over 4 seconds (3% increase per second). This ensures that you won't continuously try to reveal ghostface and fail due to being just outside the detection zone
- When ghostface exits LoS with you, reveal progress drains at the same rate you gain it (66% progress lost per second), this means if you try revealing him for 1.4 seconds and then he breaks LoS for 1.4 seconds then you will have 0 reveal progress on him, and if he breaks LoS for 0.5 seconds then you will have 60% reveal progress on him.
Only the first of those changes is a straight balance change. The other 3 are designed to fix the inconsistency's caused by the buffer and wonky detection zones. If you get into cover before 1.5 seconds then you instantly stop being revealed while right now it takes 0.3 seconds to stop being revealed.
Lower cooldown means getting revealed is less punishing if you are going for exposed downs and that not going for exposed downs is more reliable as well. It doesn't effect the strength of the strategies, just their reliability and makes utility usage easier as well.
Plague
- Make Blessed Apple base kit
That it. Now she is guaranteed to be able to use corrupt at least once making her more threatening and making cleansing a harder choice (do I think I can Survive a single Corrupt duration or should I cleanse to give myself an extra hit when she uses it at the cost of having her use it even more?) and would certainly fix her viability entirely.
Shape
- Gain 1 stalk point per second of stalking Survivors (instead of a max of 0.833333333 depending on distance). Note that 5 points are required for each tier
- Survivors have 15 evil within points instead of 10 (assuming 4 survivors) for a total of 60 EW points.
Again no other changes needed. Getting tiers faster means more time spent in T3 or less time in T1 and thus means he can use his strengths more often.
@NuclearBurrito said:
All of these changes go together:
- Shock Therapy now has a default range of 12
- Shock Therapy now applies 25 madness points (down from 30)
- The Shock field now applies 5 madness points per second at minimum distance (up from 2.5)
- Madness 1 now requires 25 madness (up from 5)
- Madness 2 now requires 50 madness (down from 55)
- Madness 3 now requires 75 madness (down from 105)
- Snap out of it now takes 15 seconds (down from 12)
- After Snapping out of it the Survivor cannot be put into tier 3 again for 15 seconds. This will be indicated on their portrait by a clear circle blocking out the static surrounding them. They may still gain madness but it will cap at 74.
First of all a little bit of an explanation behind how Madness works:
Passively based off distance while in treatment mode the Survivors build up madness. They lose madness when not interacting with anything, crouching, or in a locker.
In any case madness won't lower below the thresholds of each tier. This means that once a Survivor reaches madness 50 they will never go below 50 madness for the rest of the trial. This means that with these numbers the Doctor can simply shock a Survivor and doing so will always increase their madness by exactly one tier.
This also means that his power is less for early game tracking immediately and more for stall and tracking throughout the game.
For chases having faster and longer range shocks is also a godsend in a chase.
The 15 second clause after snap out prevents easy abuse with an impossible to break 3 gen strategy. If 15 seconds is too much then it can easily be lowered.
Addon Changes:
- Moldy electrode - Increases shock stun duration by 0.2 seconds
- Polished electrode - Increases shock stun duration by 0.3 seconds
- High Stimulus Electrode - Increases shock stun duration by 0.5 seconds (all 3 of these are because the range was increased and further increasing it via addons could get out of hand)
- Scrapped tape - Reworked, now Ultra rare: Survivors move 30% slower while stunned. Movement speed while in Treatment mode increased by 0.1 M/S. Movement speed in punishment mode decreased by 0.1 M/S (Doctor needs a second ultra rare)
- Interview Tape - Now has a 25 meter range. (with the basekit range increase the drawback isn't really worth it. So increasing the benefit makes sense)
@NuclearBurrito said:
Disclaimer: This is NOT an attempt to restore legion's former niche (as much as I would love to make that work). This is simply an attempt to fix his balance issues so he isn't ######### tier. Thus unlike other suggestions I have made regarding Legion this is simply trying to make Legion as he is now into a good Killer such that it can actually be implemented. If you want to see how I'd fix old legion I have a seperate thread on that. Specifically this one:
Now for the fix
These changes are all meant to go together:
- M1 attacks no longer drain Frenzy at all
- Killers can see the deep wounds bar draining
- Deep wounds prevents preforming channeled actions besides mending and unhooking
- Frenzy moves at 5.4 M/S
- Frenzy window vault speed is now 0.9 seconds and pallet vault speed is now 1.1 seconds.
- Fatigue time is reduced by 0.5 seconds per Survivor hit in a single Frenzy (without DW).
- Frenzy base fatigue time reduced to 3 seconds (thus the minimum fatigue is 1 second if you hit all 4)
- Frenzy cooldown is reduced to 15 seconds
M1 attack draining his power never made sense. Still doesn't
Killer seeing DW means Legion is now better at tracking and it punishes not mending.
Preventing channeled actions further punishes not mending.
Increase Frenzy speed and vault speed means he's more likely to get chain hits. DW still is extremely unlikely to down and such this isn't problematic.
Fatigue time being reduced by chain hits (default is still 4) means he has an actual method of downing Survivors. Hit them all and then M1 the last one with a very small to nonexistent fatigue for a relatively easy down.
Addon changes:
- Pins - The change about working on first hit happens
- Friendship bracelet/Never sleep pills/Susie's Mixtape - Increase terror radius during Feral Frenzy by 4/6/8 meters (gives them more perk synergy)
- Franks Mixtape - Hitting a Survivor with Deep Wounds inflicts Oblivious for 15 seconds
- Fuming Mixtape - Also increases Frenzy Duration by 3 seconds
- Julies Mixtape - Slightly increase Frenzy movement speed (+0.1 M/S)
- Joes Mixtape/Cold dirt - Considerably/Tremendously the time required to refill the power gauge
Pins are being changed anyways. No reason not to support this.
KI addons now synergise better with perks related to this stuff
Franks now causes DW to drain over time for a bit and gives it more utility, while also making sure it doesn't stack with itself due to the new Cold Dirt AND means it can effectively do more "damage" without being abusable (shortest time to down possible is 30 seconds which is longer than what you want)
The fatigue addons needed to be change due to the new fatigue mechanic only working at specific values. Having addons effect them would make it much harder to balance, thus making them effect other things such as cooldowns and speed solves the issue.
@NuclearBurrito said:
All of these changes are meant to go together:
- Stuns while invisible don't last longer than normal (but still kick you out of cloak)
- Lightburn stun only lasts 2 seconds (down from 3)
- While cloaked you move at 5.4 M/S (Up from 5.04 M/S)
- While cloaked you preform break and vault actions 15% faster
- The Wraith is completely invisable while cloaked to Survivors 16 or more meters away and has the shimmer when within 16 meters. Standing still decreases that range to 8 meters.
- While uncloaking the Wraith doesn't ring the bell until 2 seconds into the animation
@NuclearBurrito said:
These changes are meant to go together:
- Ambush now plays the roar during the attack rather than while charging
- Crouching now takes 1 second
- Couching speed now 4 M/S (up from 3.68)
- Searching boxes takes 20 seconds
- All boxes will have a different Key. Any 2 different keys will unlock the RBT. No RNG required.
- If a generator is completed while a RBT is active it's timer loses 30 seconds. Thus if all 5 gens are popped back to back then someone with RBT will be guaranteed to die if they have no keys.
- The Killer can see the RBT timer on the UI. They can already just count in order to get the information anyways so there is no point it trying to hide it.
Addon Changes:
- Combat Straps - Decreases time to crouch by 0.2 seconds (down from 0.3 due to the effect being base kit)
- Razor Wires - Also increases Skill check difficulty
- Jigsaws Annotated plan - Increase the number of jigsaw boxes by 2. Increases the number of required keys by 1.
- Jigsaws Sketch - Increase the number of jigsaw boxes by 1. Increases the number of required keys by 1.
- Amanda's Secret - Also grants 2 additional RBT's
- Amanda's Letter - Reduces the Number of Reverse Bear Traps by 2. Reduces the Number of Jigsaw boxes by 2. Reduces the number of required Keys by 1.
- Bag of Gears - Increases search time by 10% (down from 14%). (total of 2 seconds of extra search time up from 1.68)
- Crate of Gears - Increases search time by 20% (down from 30%). (total of 4 seconds of extra search time up from 3.6)
@NuclearBurrito said:
No not a full on rework. As fun as that sounds, it's not the best idea considering that he's always going to have a chainsaw.
These changes all go together:
- Change Bubba's MS to 92% up from 87.5% while charging his chainsaw. This is the same as Billy
- Bubba no longer gets stunned when hitting a non-survivor object, he just keeps going anyways. This will go through pallets but he can still be stunned if it's dropped directly on top of him.
- Movement speed during his rampage is increased to 125%
- Charge time is increased to 2.35 seconds (up from 2.1 seconds) for reference Billy's is 2.5 seconds. Basically beasts marks is now basekit.
- His rampage is changed to 3 seconds flat down from 3.26. This is a mostly side grade as it means if they jump through a window you aren't punished for as long. The distance he travels is the same as now with the speed increase
Addon changes:
- Chili/Award winning Chili - Moderately/Considerably (10/15%) increase the rampage duration. No longer effects object penalty because that's not a thing. (because these add-ons do nothing now)
- Carburettor Tuning Guide - Now ultra rare. Values increased to match new rarity: Decreases the charge time by 20%, Decreases the cool-down by 20%, Reduces the sound range by 40% (because it's the wrong rarity now and he needs ultra rares)
- Light chassis - Now ultra rare. Slightly increase your movement speed while charging your chainsaw (up to 95%) and you may now cancel the rampage at any time. (Object penalty no longer exists and he needs a 2nd ultra rare)
- Depth Gauge Rake - Now very rare. Decrease the rampage duration by 10%. Each time you hit a survivor with your chainsaw extend the duration by 1 second. (Same as Light chassis minus the ultra rare part)
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@darktrix said:
Killers don't want solos to be brought up to swf levels, they want swf to be brought down to solo levels.
Not true, the entire point is the have all 3 of them be equal in power and the difference between SWF and Solo logistically cannot be closed without buffing Solo's.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
What more can they do to buff solo players without making killer impossible? How much free info do survivors need? I solo queue and hit red rank on both sides consistently and idk how you buff solo survivors without making it even easier to bully killers and escape.
As currently designed, the game doesn’t work with SWF. Chases can last way too long, gens go too fast. The answer can’t be to buff solos to match SWF, killers would stand no chance. And you can’t buff killers to match SWF, then solos really would be screwed. You have to nerf SWF to be more manageable or at bare minimum, incentivize solo/killer play.
I don’t think there’s a balance problem with solos. There’s just doodoo solo survivors.
You are implying that you can't make more than one change at any given moment.
There is nothing stopping you from buffing Solo's AND Killers.
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@S_Panda said:
Basically either way can work out with the right perk building to offset rushing or so on. I'd personally prefer the former with slight reduction in initial build but I always look at it addon-less first since any killer should be able to perform 'fine' without them. I just don't like the sound of the active-buff because if survivors can know you have it on they'll pallet you early or so on to avoid the majority of the buff, even more so if you do give a tell of what one you're using.
Oh and when I say it makes it easier to work with addons that's a good thing for his base kit.
Basically I can't make his basekit too strong or else his addons would make him OP.
However if I increase the total number of effects that can be altered then I can have different addons just give variety rather than just getting stronger with rarity. This means I can have his basekit be stronger than it otherwise could be due to now having an easier time making weak but still interesting and useful addons.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
I'll edit the OP with the nuances. If you convince me I can always just change it back anyways.
I have now done so.
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@S_Panda said:
Imagine if they make one of them the norm and an addon to modify :D
Like only 1 orb choice and you need addons to get the other 2?
Yeah not doing that.
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I'll edit the OP with the nuances. If you convince me I can always just change it back anyways.
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Basically, you're thinking Corrupt style usage, I'm thinking Frenzy style usage.
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@S_Panda said:
Basically either way can work out with the right perk building to offset rushing or so on. I'd personally prefer the former with slight reduction in initial build but I always look at it addon-less first since any killer should be able to perform 'fine' without them. I just don't like the sound of the active-buff because if survivors can know you have it on they'll pallet you early or so on to avoid the majority of the buff, even more so if you do give a tell of what one you're using.
The idea is that I'd have it be such that you can do a Myers style 99% except with Green buff which is versatile enough to not need the strategy.
Specifically how it'd work (right now there is no need for it to be like this) is that you'd do the channel and pick up the orb of your choice and then just hold onto it. From there if you press M2 again it will consume the orb and grant it's effect, this time with no channel or slowdown. Thus you plan ahead which orb is most likely right for the next situation and then can chose the exact timing to get the buff, this is why the duration can be so short, and I'm considering making it even shorter.
So for example you can use blue to get in a bit closer, but you can also use it in the middle of chase nearby a pallet to get a cheeky lunge hit when they think they are safe.
Or just have a Green orb on standby so you can have an extra unexpected burst of speed in order to bait out an extra loop before consuming the orb to get the hit.
And of course you can use Red for defense if they are grouped.
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Consistency is important. This is an even more important instant.
Also if this was added it would probably shut up the people saying he's being nerfed by this.
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btw regarding the merits of this:
@S_Panda said:
My only change would be putting them closer to a 'normal M1 killer' at first:
Movement Speed - 114%
Terror Radius - 34 meters
Height - Short
Power: Blood Ritual - The Acolyte starts the game with a 5% penalty to action speed (breaking pallets and generators as well as channeling this power) and attack cooldowns, he also vaults slightly slower (-2.5%) and has a reduced lunge (-.5 meter).
Otherwise soon after release any survivor in the know will notice the killer coming and loop them enough to prevent them from becoming 'normal'/above M1s. Since their power is only 'fixing' their normal stats after 5 hits (excluding addons) they shouldn't start too far below killers who have a power alongside their normal status
vs
@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/768256#Comment_768256
While I get the idea there are some problems.
First of all not all categories are created equal. So having all of them get a 20% and then some smaller bonus wouldn't work since everything getting the same bonus severely limits what numbers would work.
Second of all the specialization aspect where you gain specific abilities of your choice to suit the situation is a core part of the Killer, so having it just give a single buff to everything would remove a critical part of the idea.
That being said I think I can make something along these lines work:
- Keep the token system as is.
- Collecting an orb grants a much larger buff than it currently does temporarily, but gives a smaller stack-able permanent buff like now (but not as much as now to counter-balance it).
- If you think it you should be able to use the orbs mid chase for the temp buff then the summoning and absorbing the orb parts can be separate. (summon an orb like I stated in the OP already, and then consume them instantly with M2 to get the buff)
Here's a draft for the specifics.
- Green orb: +0.2m Movement Speed and 25% Vault speed for 20 seconds. +0.04m permanent Movement speed afterwards
- Red orb: +20% pallet break speed and +50% Attack cooldown reduction for 20 seconds. +5% permanent pallet break speed afterwards.
- Blue orb: -8 Meter TR and +0.1 seconds of lunge (same as T3 Myers) for 20 seconds. -2 Meter permanent TR reduction afterwards.
Is dependent on how strong the core idea of a stack-able buff to base stats is. From an enjoyment prospective I do think I can make it work either way, but the important difference is the early game.
Specifically him being a regular Killer that scales quickly means he's going to have a hard time in the early game but be extremely strong in the late game.
Having it be a large boost and then a much smaller (but still important) scaling keeps the core idea but smooths out the power curve by a lot reducing the extremes.
Personally I actually really like the idea that Wicked came up with for a temp strong boost and then a weak permanent boost afterwards, since that allows for strategies about when to use the temp boost (which I can then design in to give the Killer a bit more flair). It also makes the addons easier to work with since I have more things to tweak (keeping them from being utterly OP is actually really hard given how the Killer works as is).
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@S_Panda said:
Reading further in generated a few questions (obviously stuff that would need nailing out more on devs side but still):
Will the 3s channel be completely still? reduced movement like clown's reload or perhaps an even slower movement like legion/nurse fatigues?.
I assume after the channel to choose an orb you'll have to hit one of three buttons: will they be m2, space, control (by defaults) so if a survivor comes in range you can punish them?
Can you spend multiple tokens in one summon? IE pooling 4 to get 2 orbs in one go
- Moving onto addons: Which ones can or can't stack? Basically any of the very rares x ultra rares (the ultra rares sort of impeded one another I assume) sound pretty strong paired: Moderate + Considerate essence effects, with first orb costing 1 less. Considerate + all orbs costs 1 less, and first one costs 1 (free 2 orbs at start & buff). Start with 1 of each considerably & first one costs 1. 3 orbs cause expose x having 3 free orbs at the start to use (use 2 at first then 1 later if my first question is has to be repeated).
- Finally if I remember right they usually do 4 / 5 / 5 / 4 / 2 for addon rarity for new killers so you'd have to create 1 more for uncommon / very rare basically?
Perks time! I quite like the three of them as 2 are very new feeling compared to other perks. The perk-based mori is nice as that's how I use moris for the most part anyway.
For the hex: there doesn't seem to be a hint that the killer is using it (ala devour hope) so I actually like the thought of players not caring about totems ignoring it thinking it's haunted ground or so on.
For the curse: will the player know they're cursed from the get go? or surprise once they work on a chest/totem/sabotaging or worse altruistic a survivor.
Glanced at survivor perks: the gate one feels a bit too strong to basically run at 100% for that long. poised gives it for 10 seconds at its highest for a generator being finished and adrenaline runs for 5 seconds (imagine pairing the 2). Fleet footed also feels a bit too high, but that might be me misreading it: will it ever work in a chase? Or is it just so long as not 'in danger' + healthy you run faster?
Ok from the top in order.
- The channel is completely still and would be similar to the Hag's animation. Remember that Red essence speeds up this animation as one of it's effects. You are not intended to be using this in a chase.
- I was going to have the selection always be via M2 only. Basically the channel makes all 3 orbs pop up around you and then you would look at the appropriate orb and press M2 in order to make your selection. This could be indicated like it is for Freddy or Demogorgon when selecting a gen or portal
- Currently you'd only be able to take 1 at a time. If that is a problem then it could simply be that you keep taking them until you run out of tokens after the channel.
- All addons are designed to stack. It took me awhile to make that work without anything utterly game-breaking coming up. I forgot there was 5 for the other 2 rarities so I'll come up with something for that.
For the perks:
- Yes that is part of the idea behind the hex. The other part being that it is excellent for snowballing as it's one of the few effects you can have tied to someone being on the hook that doesn't encourage camping, since camping doesn't take advantage of the speed boost.
- Curse of solitude notifies the Obsession exactly like it does with Dying Light. The other Survivors won't learn anything until the effect is triggered at which point they will probably stop helping in the future.
- I can reduce the duration of the scratch marks perk
- Fleet footed will never work in a chase and if you are in the terror radius or injured it won't work even outside of a chase. This means against Freddy once he finds and starts chasing you the perk immediately deactivates even though you are oblivious and healthy.
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@S_Panda said:
Personally my feel would be make them all be -.5 an orb rather than change it altogether. I suppose it'd be an odd killer though to never be 115 at some point, but someone using play w/ your food or so on would be used to it (and that would probably be one of the better moves to use with it early game to assure hits).
Can you put that on the actual Killer suggestion thread?
Also elaborate on what you mean by -0.5 an orb cuz each orb has it's own effects.
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@S_Panda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/768202#Comment_768202
I quite like the concept but I feel it starting off with basically -1 orb in all categories would be too much of a negative (I understand there's addons to negate, but still). One very good looper could make it so you don't power up for a long minute and until then you're worse than a wraith even
In that case there was already a proposal that would remove the need for the downside. Please reply with your feedback on it because you are not the first person who's said that.
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@Mr_K said:
While your math is correct you are only taking one cycle into account. The differences in you time and m/s is due to adding distance and time to the end of PTB Nurse for cool down. Otherwise the times and m/s would be the same.
The 2 blink PTB Nurse can go 57.9 meters in 11.9 seconds.
The 2 blink Live Nurse in the same 11.9 seconds can travel 70.2 meters. Because the 3.5 seconds of cool down could be used to charge a full blink (2s) and travel 20 meters (1.5s).
Unfortunately maps are not designed in large straight open lines. While the Nurse can travel in straight lines while blinking she can only walk the same path as any other killer @ 3.85.
If we aren't talking about long distance traveling then the nerf only comes into play if you miss.
Otherwise you will hit them and the way the attack cooldown works makes the cooldown meaningless if you successfully hit them.
So it only comes into play with either suboptimal Nurses, Dead hard user (which are admittedly common) and Long distances where more than 1 cycle is used.
You only take 1 cycle into account because increasing the number of cycles just doubles the distance and also doubles the time making the M/S the same as if you hadn't done anything.
Remember, Nurse is special in that a theoretical perfect Nurse will always catch you faster if you don't run in a straight line.
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Because it's a speed boost your Hope should only trigger if you complete the generator.
Having it activate mid chase would be too good.
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@8obot1c btw I made it both 6% and gave it an additional out of chase requirement so that Freddy and Mirror Myers aren't completely screwed over by the perk.
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@HellCatJane said:
@Impact I don't consider debate/discussion a stand off. Back and forth talks are usually explaining people's side for understanding etc.
As I've already mentioned tho, the dev's are changing some of the lesser used perks, and may also combine this with another. Another aura perk tho, I think is unnecessary.
It sounds like we agree where it counts.
Some secondary effect is good.
Specifically aura reading maybe not.
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@8obot1c said:
Hyper Sensitive - Pain fuels you. You gain an additional 50% speed when getting hit by the killer and it lasts 1/1.5/2 seconds. The effects go off after the time is up.
No Marks Left Behind - You escape with nothing left from you. When the exit gates are powered you leave no scratch marks for 60/80/100 seconds.
Fleet - You make your way around easily. When not in the killer's terror radius or you are injured you run 4%/6%/8% faster
I like it. I'll put them in the OP in just a sec although I'll tweak the wording a bit for the sake of QoL.
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@HellCatJane said:
@NuclearBurrito Dev's cared enough about points to consider farming bannable. I think they were worried about balancing BP, hence they capped it at 1 million BP max.
I don't see WGLF as an empty perk slot. I see it as giving bonus points in lieu of another perk. It's on people to determine if more points are worth that slot, or if they want something else.
I already said I don't mind the perk as it is, and I also don't mind them adding something to it. However, more aura readings for survivors, I don't agree with. Not when there is still OoO. The dev's mentioned already they plan on redoing the "lesser" used perks, perhaps they will combine it with one of those instead. Who knows.
Like I said, the specific effect isn't what I support. But the idea of having an effect beyond points is a good one.
If you want to say that the aura reading wouldn't be good then ok sure that's fine. But that doesn't mean the perk shouldn't do SOMETHING.
Also farming isn't bannable.
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@HellCatJane said:
I get that people want to be "FAIR", they see BBQ does 2 things! Points + auras! WGLF on the survivor side should also do 2 things!... but that isn't really balanced.
Killer gets 4 perks. That's it. Survivors get 4 perks per each survivor. (4 survivors with 4 perks each).
You're never going to get this game to be "fair". Killers have knives... Survivors won't also be able to stab the killer anytime soon... However you can get the game more balanced. So BBQ shows auras, but not if you are in a locker. Got distortion? That works too, AND you know the killer has BBQ with using it as well, so when tokens run out you can know you need to hide etc.
I don't mind that WGLF is only points, but I don't mind the idea of them changing it, but it has to be more balanced than getting to see the killer, there are quite a few of get to see the killer perks already especially. Which not all Killers are able to counter those AT all. Not all killers have undetectable etc.
You're missing the point.
BBQ does 1 thing and also helps with progression.
But balance only cares about the aura, not the points since those are meaningless in terms of balance.
So WGLF is equivalent to an empty perk slot at the moment. Thus adding any effect makes it just equivalent to literally any other perk.
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@pichumudkip said:
Honestly I think the devs should look more into this. It's honestly such a great and fantastic idea. And if they did this, being a survivor main, I personally would be excited and wouldn't care if they added a survivor or not.
Thanks!
Any input on @WickedKatz's idea?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/768274#Comment_768274
Definitely depends on various factors (rank, region, time of day, etc.), but the average shows that killer queue times tend to be longer across the board. We could look into possibly sharing those stats in the future, but it's sorta' tricky; there's no good way to show it because of all the variables that affect it. The average just shows the average and might not line up with what you experience based on where you live, what rank you are, what time it is, etc.
I think it would actually be a cool feature to have a pop up if the role you selected has a significantly longer expected que time at that specific moment.
Something like "Hey a ton of people are playing Killer now, so if you play Killer then expect a long wait". That way more people will switch to play the other role instead thus reducing que times overall.
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And yes if I did this I would be taking out the initial stats deficit.