What happened to "closing the gap between solos and swf"?
I remember the devs saying they were looking into this. Kindred was also going to get changed. Can we get an update on this? I think this is a big issue that needs to be addressed because more and more survivors are starting to play swf only and I understand why. Solo survivor is getting very annoying.
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Killers don't want solos to be brought up to swf levels, they want swf to be brought down to solo levels.
I don't see any way for them to do that. The best way is to buff solos to swf levels and then buff the killers accordingly imo. They also already said in a developer update that they were looking into doing this.
As a killer main, I disagree. If solo buffs allows M1 killer buffs, I'm all for it. Would love to have a greater diversity in my options when it comes to high ranks, both in who I'm against and who I can play as.
That's actually false.
A lot of killer players want solos to be brought up to swf levels, so killers can be brought up to their level as well. A lot of killers balanced around solo players.
that's kind of impossible since 3rd party apps exist
Might be impossible but that is not the point. The forum is filled with threads of killers wanting either buffs against swf or penalties for swf. You'll see some solo survivor mains asking for features to close the gap - but I have watched those requests come and go for almost two years and the gap just keeps getting wider with almost every update.
Kindred as part of base kit idea, for example - that met with a lot of opposition from killers in forum.
No, I'm pretty sure killers just dont want survivors crying about everything to have KILLERS brought down to solo level. Buff solo to swf. Buff killers to match.
But nobody wants that. They just want THEIR "side" buffed.
It's still an ongoing process. It was mentioned recently that the Kindred change that was originally suggested wouldn't be happening, but we do our best to keep solo players in mind while creating new content (and updating existing content). Things like the hooked survivor being able to reveal Ghost Face and being able to see where a portal is being cleansed against the Demogorgon are small details to help solo players get the same info as SWF groups. A group on voice chat could communicate this info anyway (e.g. he's camping being the hook waiting to stalk you, be careful), so it only serves to bring solo players closer to the same level.
Also, we combined the SWF and solo buttons on the menu. /s
I just wish this game had a chase indicator for whoever's getting chased not just the obession
That spoiler omg swf and solo is basically the same now!
Mind = Blown
Too true. There has been many good ideas for closing the gap in forum - but really the only feature that comes to mind that solos ever got to help close the gap was the twitching Entity limbs around the obsession's icon in HUD when they are in a chase.
Adoption and development is so slow on this topic - I do not think we will ever see a solution in the lifetime of this game. If you buff solos, killers feel like they are versing swf every game, if you buff killers you crush solos even more, if you do both - well who knows where that needle will land.
A common sentiment but not based on reality. You cannot buff solo survivors to the point of verbal communication and coordination. Closest they could do would to give survivor infinite distance bond but you will still be missing out on callouts and planned action.
But lets say you could. What could be done to buff killers to deal with the increased coordination? Not all solos would be able to completely benefit from the buff. There is still some skill involved. Any buffs given to the killer could potentially steamroll groups of solos.
For a game balanced around the survivors not knowing what their teammates are doing, allowing players to queue together was opening Pandora's box. Whats done is done and there's no undoing it.
I think they did a pretty good job so far though
The main issue with trying to do this is how people play the game. Swf and solo are two different sets of survivors.
Swf have a goal not just to escape but to get thier friends out with them. They are a team of friends working together with a common goal and due to comms they can actively advise and coordinate who does what.
Solo are not a team they are a set of players who each have a goal to escape and help others if they so please and in the end helping the others helps themselves be it more chance to escape or points. Others making it out the match doesn't impact a solo player.
Solo players can never say I'm close to the hook and my gen is almost done I'll get them and solo seeing that won't change anything as they don't know the gen time. It's why you will see many solo players rushing a hook compared to a coordinated swf especially before end game.
Seeing won't change what people are out to get from the game.
Hook for one saves then would need more info to bring it up to swf level. Seeing all other survivors, someone flagging themselves for the hook save stating going now or after gen is done, gen progression of the flagged player, More info if they find the killer patrolling or camping etc. There is a lot more to it that make swf strong than just seeing where the killer or others are.
So where does it stop with the information? Imo due to this solo can never truly be brought up the level of a good coordinated swf unless anything and everything is shown to them.
What more can they do to buff solo players without making killer impossible? How much free info do survivors need? I solo queue and hit red rank on both sides consistently and idk how you buff solo survivors without making it even easier to bully killers and escape.
As currently designed, the game doesn’t work with SWF. Chases can last way too long, gens go too fast. The answer can’t be to buff solos to match SWF, killers would stand no chance. And you can’t buff killers to match SWF, then solos really would be screwed. You have to nerf SWF to be more manageable or at bare minimum, incentivize solo/killer play.
I don’t think there’s a balance problem with solos. There’s just doodoo solo survivors.
4 man SWF will full meta perks and items straight up make it unplayable and it's frequently happening more. There needs be a big nerf to SWF.
Buffing solo is completely the WRONG decision.
You are implying that you can't make more than one change at any given moment.
There is nothing stopping you from buffing Solo's AND Killers.
Yeah, I can't be too sure on what's holding them up. Some people lack the foresight to realize small buffs to information solos can get (that SWF already gets) isn't that much of an issue. Like there's ways to rework Kindred to reflect what the hooked survivor sees, so-to-speak. You could also make commands to notify people on what you're doing or what landmark you're by. On top of that, the suggestion comes with buffing killers, too, but some overlook that. I'm wondering if those people are influencing their choices.
Forgot to write this, I want solos buffed and all killers buffed accordingly. Just buffing solos is obviously not a good idea
Not true, the entire point is the have all 3 of them be equal in power and the difference between SWF and Solo logistically cannot be closed without buffing Solo's.
Why didnt you guys test this kindred basekit with the community in PTB? I really don't think you guys are aware how healthy kindred basekit is gonna be. It's something which is really needed. At least test it and collect community feedback pls.
Also, what's up with the HUD? When can we finally expect to see entity legs on all survivors indicating who is in the chase? When can we see a totem counter in the HUD like a gen counter?
Noone said you can buff solos to the exact level of swf. The issue we all have is that the gap is way to big and we want to close it as much as possible.
And to your questions about how to buff killer: finally introduce a 2nd MUST-DO objective to increase game time. This automatically buffs every killer. Then, the weakest can get some specific buffs like some addons as basekit (windstorm on wraith for example). If you think about its very simple. The path is clear. But the devs don't want to take this path.
What buffs can be given to killers to balance with buffed solos?
Chase indicators and totem counter for killers as well, and a hook / stage counter too, please.
As a solo I always try to get everyone out. The only exception: Bubba facecamp, a survivor who was doing NOTHING the entire match.
More definitely can be done and needs to be done to close the gap. My biggest want right now is for a chase indicator for every survivor. This is vital information that swf gets that was immensely help solos.
Just the noed picture already tells me you don't get it. Just think 2 steps ahead. Is swf to strong? Yes. Can we nerf them? Not really cuz voicechat >>>> anything else. So what's left? Buff solos and killers to their level. Simple maths it's 1+1.
I edited the answer in my previous post.
2nd objective is the key + buffing the weakest killers with some number tweaking.
Hook stage counter would be really a good idea for both sides! Yeah, I would like to test that out since you can't always keep track on that
This is honestly one of the most important balance concerns, and it seems to be completely ignored unfortunately. They shouldn't be nerfing any killers until something is done to close the gap between solo and swf. The resources for the nurse nerf should have been spent buffing solo survivors and one of the weakest killers.
I also remember back when they said that they're looking into making Rank Rewards a thing. But that was like.. over 3 years ago.
Oh totes bro, it’s gonna be so simple 1+1 for this dev team that took over a year to rework one killer to basically rework the entire game. Because that’s what all these buffs will require. There’s nothing simple about it.
My guess is what you actually mean is loads of buffs and free info spoon fed to solo players while some killers get some small tweaks.
Solo survivor isn’t hard.
Those ones
Just because they are bad/slow doesn't mean it's complicated. It just means they aren't competent enough for this task. Or they simply don't care, which gives us all the impression more often than rare.
It's not about the difficulty, it's about the disparity between solo and swf. Just like the gap between strong killers and weak killers needs to be fixed.
Buffs to killers in general. You lose a lot of map pressure when you introduce knowledge that otherwise be unknown. Buffing individual low tier killers is something that should be done regardless if solo is buffed or not.
Those are buffs which should be available NOW, or months ago. Not "just cause solos need to be considered".
The main problem with survive with friends is communication and coordination
To more effectively a team working the last time they waste and as a killer survivors wasting time is a blessing to you.
For example if I'm running a survive with friends group and I have deliverance I can easily tell people don't waste your time coming for me do gens I'll get myself off when the killers far away.
That means there's for less waste of time with multiple survivors running up for the save.
There is literally no possible killer buff that could compensate for survivors constantly having the same info/co-operative potential as a 4 man SWF each and every game.
Sure but in the event that Solo's are buffed up to SWF level these camp buffs are designed to work against SWF, thus it would work anyways.
Yeah, no clue what the deal is here. @Peanits reaffirmed here that the Kindred base kit change wouldn't be happening, which makes no sense since that's one of the most straightforward ways to give survivors a helpful communication tool.
I also still think some level of "See nearby survivors' auras" should be base, with Bond extending that range.
On some mechanics, @Peanits said earlier in this thread: "A group on voice chat could communicate this info anyway (e.g. he's camping being the hook waiting to stalk you, be careful), so it only serves to bring solo players closer to the same level."
Seeing nearby survivor auras, or having the Kindred effect when a survivor is on the hook, falls into this same bucket. No clue why they don't add more of this into the game.
Of course there is.
SWF do not have literally infinite power, so we just set Killer power equal to SWF's large but finite power and then bam problems solved.
That's very vague.
Can you provide some sort of example scenario?
I completely agree with this unfortunately SWF just has too many options to be strong, but, instead of "showing".. wouldn't it just make sense to allow for an "In-Game" chat..
It would still be difficult to use because you would have to stand still in order to type, and if you have to spam "hook struggle" you couldn't type, but maybe on your first hook you could... the communication would really allow solo players to coordinate with the others.
Honestly, even as a killer main, understanding how much more powerful survivors would potentially be with an "in-game" chat option, I still believe this would be a good thing to implement and a way to fix this "gap" issue people are referring to.. without making any changes that are "too strong" but at least giving survivors a little ability to chat with each other in a match.. it can be really frustrating at times when your teammates doesn't understand what you are trying to do and gets you killed lol..
That being said, if such a change really made it too difficult for killers to win, but I don't think that it would because killers already have to face SWF all the time which is straight up voice comm, then killers maybe could get a couple of other helpful notifications in return, such as I would personally like to see how far the "Struggle" bar is while I am Carrying a Survivor to a Hook! I think that would benefit me a lot in a match having that information available, and I would be happy with a trade-off like that and the ability for survivors to communicate with each other. Or some other similar examples.
That could be due to a big factor in DBD is still not knowing.
Kindred being base would help versus on start camping. While a 4 man SWF know it's happening they are the smallest portion of players. Any match with a 3 man leaves 1 player in doubt and a 2 man with w players in doubt.
It also wouldn't change what people chose to do in that scenario compared to swf who can communicate a decision. The killer goes out of kindred range an swf still could see where they are or one goes in close to see them patrolling. So whats next after kindred we just show the killers location when someone is on the hook?
Where does the info needed stop? Perks activated? People in a chase? Pallets used? Totems done? How much could this change the game from not knowing to going through the motions as we now know what to expect. It does have the potential to make the game extremely mundane.
Part of not knowing is who you are playing versus on both sides 4 man, 3 man, 2 man, solo's as each play quite differently.
The problem with in game chat is it allows for much more toxicity and if you have to mute it's no longer viable. People tend to troll and play music and shout abuse it also removes what some love about the game.
Then you have those that live in regions with multiple languages like Europe. That region with 4 solos could have an English, French, Italian and Russian in the lobby.
As I said it's very hard to do it visually in ages but voice chat is something which I personaly think would ruin the game for many players due to what it introduces.
If I had to put money on it it'll be next year if ever when Solo and in turn Killers get buffed to help balance SWF.
Create an in game com system where all survivors are able to communicate with each other without being in a friends group. Make muting someone an option to avoid being yelled at for missing skill checks by 12 year olds. Have the audio heard without a headset so players without a Mic can still hear whats going on.
Theoretically if everyone had equal access to coms and the information shared then the game could be balanced around that. The useless aura perks could be changed to something better and more useful.
It's also possible to buff solos to SWF levels, then nerf survivors across the board to killer level.