Williamz
Williamz
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This bug been around since Oni release and got officially reported in March and still no response? :/
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https://youtu.be/CzbN3cs9ZwI?t=153
Just in case you haven't seen this already. @Desh
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@Washu_YouAreAGenius Cheers for the notification. I do agree with you. I was looking at the Silent Hill patch notes to see if they had actually fixed this and to my disappointment they hadn't. I honestly think they slapped "Acknowledged Status" then just whacked it on the low priority list. I asked on my thread for at least some sort of dev status update on the bug but nothing. What they don't realize is tracking a survivor is a fundamental aspect of the game for killer so this should have been on the top priority list from the beginning as this will just impact balancing going forward.
@Tomozudoari I have not seen this video of Scott yet but I do agree with what he's saying as I have experienced this as well for months. There are some serious sound issues currently which has progressively got worse since just after Oni got added.
I honestly think it's time we deserve to get an official response from the devs about this bug. @not_Queen @Jeff @Peanits
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362130#Comment_1362130
That happens to the best of us when we go against any solid Survivor(s). I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment. But the map isn't that bad and essentially all Killers can thrive on this map except Bubba. Because ######### Bubba. He's just not great for chases on any map. But the now buffed Clown is perfect for those endless Corridors, Nurse is perfect too, Pig can ambush dash, Trapper can block doorways with his traps and leave the other side still blocked with the breakable wall, Hag has teleport. That map is a Killer's dream once learned properly. But if you go against a good team, you'll lose no matter what map you're on.
Pig wont be able to crouch then dash at a survivor in a straight line chase and pyrimind head has to be at least at half of the range of the damned shot to hit them with it but at that point you may as well has just M1 them. The main thing is the rest is down to probability, isn't it? If trapper has put a bear trap there, If hag has put a trap there, If.. If you are lucky enough to spawn in that certain area and put a trap down then it's all good or if you go past that area and decided to trap it while the survivor goes past it. Against top survivors you wont have time to head there and trap it, you need to start pressure immediately.
There is so much probability involved here I'd rather not get into it but the main thing is here you are eating a forced pallet and there is almost no direct mind game and they get free time into a long corridor. Forced pallets aren't anything new they exist on Lery's map and some others but the difference is on lery's is there are rooms beside you and you can run diagonally towards the survivor and cut them off. Here it is a full straight line corridor unless they decide to run into a room with a loop if you get too close.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362108#Comment_1362108
Or you could just take a perk for a different play style? I run Brutal on Freddy and Pig along with some other Non-meta perks and get the usual 4k in PC Red Ranks. And the difference in those extra seconds do matter because I've played Demo in Silent Hill and not much time is bought. Especially since those long corridors hardly have any adjacent paths to escape from. It seems to be more Killer sided than Survivor depending on what side of the map you're on.
Yes Huntress, Deathslinger, Billy, Nurse and maybe Plague if she has corrupt purge might be able to deal with it a bit easier but what about everyone else? Also I assumed you was at red ranks because that's just down to pure playtime, I'm getting 4ks all the time but till I actually go against a solid survivor then they show you how to play the map, thus the conclusion I came to about the advantage of forced pallets on that map.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/162314/slient-hill-map-has-serious-issues
Why break both of them at all? Break one so when you're in a chase, Survivors run in there and get trapped. Also anyone running Brutal Strength or Fire up perks can easily break those pallets. Also, Demo's Shred, Billy/Bubba's chainsaw, Plague's corrupt purge, DeathSlinger would make short work of the map.
I'm not taking a perk because there is a 1/31 chance I might play on the Silent Hill map just to deal with a maps pallet setup that involve many forced pallets into long corridors. lol.
Yes some killers can shave an extra second off the pallet break but still results in the same thing and not enough to make a difference. Perhaps if I was nurse it would be perfectly fine but I'm not talking about a few killers that can deal will it I'm talking about the majority that have to deal with this. The real difference between a forced pallet break and let's say killers shack is there is a continuous mind game of which way he's going to go. With a forced pallet break there is zero mind game there and you buy yourself risk free time.
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Nurse is still the best killer in the game.
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@indieeden7 said:
That would make his power uncounterable, place the trail while a survivor is looping you and they'll get tormented, allowing you to counter a vast number of survivor perks.
It is counterable, you would just wait it out or go around. Just make it a green rarity or higher I think. It would be nice to have. Opens more strategy ideas and paths for the killer by having an addon like that. It's not like I'm suggesting it should be part of the base kit. that would be madness. Also I don't have any problems with looping. :)
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I do agree that over the past couple of months it actually effects more than just the legacy characters now. I've had this happen to many characters. This is for sure a strange bug. I'd legit be interested what caused it just out of curiosity.
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@BattleCast said:
I think they should just remove perk tiers entirely. It would reduce so much unnecessary grind.
@SnakeSound222 said:
Perk tiers 1 and 2 should be removed. Tier 3 becomes the default. This would cut down on the grind so much.
Yeah, I think it's definitely something they should look into.
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Is possible for a dev to comment on this post? It's been a little while now and I'm wondering the current status of this as this bug is still present in the game.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1135639#Comment_1135639
What you just listed is only regarding chases. There are maps where you cannot properly chase just because of the loop design and there are killers with low map pressure. The gen rush problem is just about gen protection. And without a proper slowdown you need to accidentially stumble across progressing gens during a chase or there will most likely be 1 gen done per chase, until the remaining gens are close enough, which then will be still hard to protect against 4 survivors.
And if the ruin skillchecks were really one major reason for the nerf, I'm wondering what will be happening to Unnerving Presence and Overcharge. And why the doc has still such an effect on skillcheck difficulty. And when the effect of old ruin had too much variance, I'm wondering why they put Gearhead again on such a condition as skillchecks. An 80% gen can still be finished without Gearhead triggering.
What I listed isn't just regarding chases. Even still chases times are indirectly the thing people are having issues with, the gens speeds are fine it's just there are certain maps that are still problematic.
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Ruin change was good and the new ruin is alright. It will be stronger with the new perk hex: retribution.
Instead you should learn from veteran players what they are doing that you are not. It could be something like moonwalking correctly, priority over certain gens, forcing survivors into certain dead zones, etc.
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Eventually it will get to a point where there will be too many perks and they will and should have to go back to the way it was back in the day. Instant unlock fully of a perk.
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@Nyxis_Fier said:
Honestly, I get the whole point of trying to reduce dcing; however having it will not discourage people from dcing. People will still DC. And chances are you'll be losing people more and more. People dc because killers camp, or killers wanna Dodge lobbies/teams because they feel they can't win a match. There's zero penalty for killers that slug and/ soft camp/camp. As it is of someone tries to save a survivor, the killer can yank them off in seconds, meanwhile its like a slow cut scene to get a survivor off the hook.
In all honesty, all that the ban is doing is encouraging toxic gameplay such as trolling, camping, tunneling and farming. People will still DC.
Absolutely and completely disagree.
Every problem you listed is a skill based issue. "Slug and soft camp, camp" these are counterable by first identifying it, playing objective, using the correct perks to counter and most importantly be willing to trade yourself for the hooked person who may be about to enter struggle state or death.
First off, slugging can be dealt with a number of perks but more specifically, Unbreakable. Camping is dealt with by pushing gens while someone waits for the opportunity to take the trade on the hook before a hook phase ends. Taking Kindred will help massively if you are a solo player or even in a swf, I run this every game as survivor as it's an S tier perk with the amount of information you get off this alone.
Trading yourself for the hooked teammate before their struggle state is an advantageous play. If you have BT this can help massively if the rescued player can take the hit in protection of the rescuer and can even body block the hook if the killer picks up the rescuer instantly.
If the killer is sitting very close to the hook they are most likely looking for a grab in that case and you need to get to hook about half way before the hook phase end state and keep feinting the rescue animation, just keep doing it constantly until he hits you as he will be pressured in that situation and then take the rescue. Don't go over the half way point of the progress bar and you wont be grabbed.
If the killer is slugging during the end game when all survivors are down and not finishing it this a game hostage situation which should be recorded, reported in-game (put your name in the report) and then sent to bhvr customer support service (including your name again to trace) using their player report under ticket support service on their site.
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@ASAPTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081372#Comment_1081372
No, that's a bad start. Killers already have bloodlust. If anything killers like the Hag should be 5% faster.
Trust me, I don't think you want to see a faster Hag.
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Honestly playing when you know you have an unstable connection is pretty toxic so imo if it times you out for it I think it's for the best.
Just play something else till it's stable.
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@johnmwarner said:
So had a killer game today against red rank survivors. Before it started I thought the lobby would take longer so I grabbed coffee, come back and realize the game starts and two gens were already done. Well I went on to 4K so that must mean gen speed is fine.
And BEFORE I hear that it’s only one game, there is a thread gaining momentum from ONE game Tru had during his 20+ steaming that day.
Basing this off one match? Bad idea.
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@Marcavecunc said:
Rancor activates when all generators are complete
Noed activates when the gates are powered.
Two different things.
They should run with the same parameters.
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@Doragodx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041836#Comment_1041836
With the Nurse you can actually see which way she faces when casting, you can also react to her blink, therefore reaction MS is rewarded. You can't do this with spirit. Even ScottJ outlined this. There's a big difference in being able to see Nurse and not being able to see Spirit.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041836#Comment_1041836
I mean with Nurse you can punish them for overblinking. Spirit just runs into you and M1s you just by choosing the right path by RNG.
Again MS reaction rewards the winner. Winning or losing the RNG into spirit generally favors the Spirit even if it's as something as little as forcing a pallet.
I don't think you still understanding what I'm saying. When she physically isn't moving she is 100% making some sort of play and you can make a choice on that. The only time Spirit is in excellent favour is when you run to a tiny loop. I'm aware of who "ScottJ" is and yes I agree with him on some things but not a lot on Spirit. He has said stuff like "you can't tell if she's phasing with the school outfit.." When I have recorded footage on my hard drive right now of a spirit standing across from me at a pallet going into phase and me simply vaulting across while she's wearing said "outfit."
Spirit will eventually catch you but it's about prolonging the chase. Yes she is in favour of her chases but if she wasn't she'd be a pretty bad killer. She isn't OP. You gotta remember she has to hit you twice as well. Stridor does make it easier if you don't have IW but a good survivor with IW and Spirit without Stridor can struggle and gens go very fast in this meta.
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@Doragodx said:
Let me just start by saying I am in no way survivor biased.
My personal opinion of the current state of the game is that survivors are immensely stronger than the majority of the killers.
Now onto the point of the thread: Why is there not a Blacklist option for survivors when queuing up?
Personally, I find The Spirits design to be extremely boring and flawed both before and after changes. Quite frankly I'm more inclined to just DC and go next when I get downed to a Spirit who just happened to win a 50/50 roll on which way to turn during her haunting. It's not engaging for the survivors at all. If The Spirit happens to be bad or make an incorrect decision when the balls in her court, (e.g. can't look for blood through Iron Will or Skratch marks) then she ends up forcing an early pallet only favoring her.
The most powerful killer in the game, Nurse, is actually fun to play against and is really engaging for both killer and survivor. Both are equally rewarded when you outplay one another or win a mind game.
Interested to see peoples opinions and contradictions.
You play against Spirit in a similar way to Nurse. You predict, make a decision, guess if you would like on if she will account for you doubling back when she blinks or not. Thus, the same result when you make a prediction on where the spirit is.
When a player says spirit provides "no feedback" what they really mean is they struggle with the fact they literally can't see her making her play when the reality is, you can. When she stands still. Yes she might be stood there, she might not be, either way she is making a play so now you evaluate what's around you and now you make a play. I would use jungle gyms and other high wall areas to give you better odds of making a good play, the same strat you would do against a nurse.
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Absolutely agree 100%.
They could of made her ghostly float up and then put her feet onto the window and then float down while her arms remain free and twitchy.
There is so many intresting designs they could of done for a ghostly "spirit."
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@hplovecraft79 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/790047#Comment_790047
Yes but the dev doesn't want to loose money... they should derank rage quitters and maybe give +1 at the killer for each rage quitters.
they have tried it before a long time ago and it failed.
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@hplovecraft79 said:
I agree... There are too many rage quitters... the dev should ban or derank them 4 points every rage quitting.
Deranking wont stop them but time outs will.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Uh, yeah, lets dodge every Looper as Killer. Noice.
Well if the killer did that he wouldn't be playing dead by daylight at all. lol
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/787296#Comment_787296
How so?
And which do you think would be more prevalent: what you describe, or more people dodging?
A experinced killer can check steam profiles to see if it's SWF. I've seen many folks do it and it they gonna dodge they'll dodge.
Meanwhile the killers that are actually trying to always improve and look for a challenge would prefer it if they would have time to sort their loadouts out if battling a four man group. Like myself. I don't mind SWF but I need time to sort my loadout.
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@Rydog said:
What utility would that serve, other than to make people dodge the lobby?
so I can adapt my perks and loadout if it's a full team of swf.
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@grayon444 said:
This will be amazing if they do that.But i don't think they would since it would spoil the archives.
Actually on the contrary, I think they could include it into the archives. I think it would be way better than reading a wall of text.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/781960#Comment_781960
Where did you get that idea? When I play killer I don't get hit with DS that often since I always go for the unhooker and slug the unhooked one if I come across them. There are always some bs moments with DS though, I will admit that. Like when the gates are open they can pretty much have a guaranteed escape with DS.
If you slug them and move away they can use unbreakble as well and swf will still be on the gens as they know he has that. If you are playing at least a somewhat optimal swf team you wont get far with hooking one after another. By the time you get 3 people on to struggle state there will be one gen left. Unless you get lucky and bump into the same two survivors one after another and sacrifice them both you can easily go for the 4k.
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@arslaN said:
Your DS suggestion makes it absolute trash. Killers can easily wait 20 seconds to hit you again.
Just don't tunnel the unhooked survivor. If they force you to hit them, that's a stupid move since they are going to get slugged and survivors will have to leave gens to heal them. If you come across them later, just wait a bit before picking them up. It has a lot more counterplay than the old ds.
Of course they can wait, that's why you got to move to a loop.
Judging by the rest of your post it's clear you haven't played against some SWF groups at R1 then.
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There are no real weak killers in the game anymore. Everyone is at least A+ tier. Even wraith. Although the S+ tier killers are coming down from the top, nurse has been nerfed and spirit will most likely be next.
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_premium
+1
Imagine him throwing you into a locker instead of the hook and you go down into davy jones locker in a alternate dimension and have to find a way out for a couple of minutes. Would be super cool.
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night shroud is great in a chase.
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@DelsKibara said:
I think that just guarantees the killer to just have a guaranteed 2 minute cooldown on gens, and the fact that good skill checks still regress the progress of the generator is something I can't really get behind.
This isn't really fixing Ruin as it's just buffing it to give the killer a good headstart in the game without really doing or risking anything.
Ruin has always been a risk to run, as I have been getting myself with the totem always spawning next to generators, making it a static effect will just make people use it more often without the risk of losing the perk.
I can't agree with this.
A lot of the game is based around risk, RNG already. I want to see them reduce it. RNG is fine in a game as long as it doesn't effect the game massively and unfortunately Ruin does.
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4 man SWF will full meta perks and items straight up make it unplayable and it's frequently happening more. There needs be a big nerf to SWF.
Buffing solo is completely the WRONG decision.
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@MrJack20252 said:
Would you like to see him as a killer? is there any chance to have him as a killer? i really would like to play him/play against him.
He is in Death Garden so could be a possiblity although I really don't know what his power would be. Perhaps looses his skin overtime and starts running around super fast as the exoskeleton lol.
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Almost a year ago I posted this. Wow. Would be awesome if BHVR was still thinking about doing this and would be awesome to have another john carpenter killer and approaching winter it would suite well for it's back story and get another snow map.
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Obviously SWF would impact the killer's gameplan but that only depends on when you are first visible. If you are a survivor and you see a survivor running towards you from a far while working on a gen and your friends say they are all on gens and that isn't them then sure that can trump his imitation but that's not how you should play the killer. You can make good use of the no terror radius and you can disappear behind cover or terrain until you get close and then go out into the open once you are close and in those few seconds of running towards a survivor the other survivor will be confused on if it's the killer or not and by the time they communicate you get a hit. You also forgetting the mind game power of paranoia with imitation, even against SWF. They have to constantly ID themselves between each other when they see other survivors which can be stressful in some situations and if they are on a gen and survivors pops up behind the tree infront of you then you are instantly going to jump off in the process of communicating and every time you turn a corner or in a building it's less time to ID yourselves. If you spend the game avoiding other survivors and jump off a gen when you see a another survivor and that person has the same game plan then that means you aren't getting any gens done as you are playing too safe. He will be very strong on close quarter maps, less time to react the better he is..
How the killer should actually be played is switching to your imitation behind cover just in case anyone sees you and to approach gens hugging objects and terrain so that you pop at the last second for the survivor giving them less time to react and communicate giving you a chance to hit them instantly. I guess in some sense he would be similar to Wraith but with more unique addons to expand his ability and gameplan and to passively create paranoia between survivors forcing them having to communicate a lot more and constantly jumping off gens and walking away until they all confirm there locations and that's only killer's pros against SWF. I honestly think he would be fine against SWF. If playing without addons and a strategy then sure I can see it being more of a struggle but it's like that with any killer.
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@MojoTheFabulous said:
Then you just essentially have a better Bitter Murmur.Bitter murmur is 6 seconds per gen and 10 seconds last gen activation. Bitter murmur is a full tracking perk. Rancor would hardly be better when it's only 3 seconds.
Not what I'm on about anyway, point it is the static aura obscures the killer's FoV. It's bad enough when you are going to a gen that's going to be popped then the dark shroud appears around the gen and nearby survivors auras obscuring 80% of everything on screen.
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@DarkWo1f997 said:
Uh oh! Your survivor bias is showing! I have ######### perks, but you didn’t even pay attention to that. It was a 100% matchmade game.You are obviously quite offended if you going to start calling people survivor bias when clearly you've never seen them before. If you actually think that you clearly haven't seen anything I've posted on here. It's mostly things survivors have advantage over the killer that I commented on so far but in this case it isn't. So take your killer ego somewhere else because honestly, nobody cares. There are plenty of killers on here that like stroking their ego thinking their godlike but reality is winning majority of rank one matches against solos is average and you can do it with any killer in the roaster depending on the map and survivor situations, hence your screenshot. Killers perks don't matter when you are slaughtering lamb.
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@DarkWo1f997 said:
So if I get a 4k as Freddy, he needs to be nerfed? You want to always win? The image above is what real difficulty looks like.Nurse and Freddy are very difficult to play efficiently for a lot of people. Those who train extensively to work around their killer of choice’s shortcomings are rewarded. That’s literally how every skillbased game ever, works.
You train, you cover your weak points, and you become efficient. You need to stop crying and learn to stop running straight and moving predictably. As you’re making it easy for him to whack you.
I bet you’re the type to blow a skill check on a gen five times, and wonder why the killer found you as you cry that you’re being tunneled.
WORD OF THE DAY: STEALTH.
Judging by the survivor with 5k points the match went down hill pretty quickly and the survivors don't have any meta perks asides from sprint burst and self care. Sorry but the screenshot means nothing. Show footage and it might be barely considerable.
On topic at hand, Nurse does need a nerf. He might be rank 14 but what I expect would be different in his opinion. It's not even a nerf tbh, It's a bug fix. They need to fix the issue where she can still hit you after a pallet stunned blink. I'll be submitting a bug report on that later.
@DemonDaddy said:
Apply more stealth, she is only strong if your in chase. Plan your gens and stay out of sight.
+please don't use BBQ as an excuse, only works if somebody is spotted and hookedThe entire aspect of the game is eventually someone will be caught. Four man stealthing is unheard of. Have you ever played survivor? BBQ is a ridiculously powerful perk that actually needs to be changed as well. It's a incentive to move when there is four survivors alive which I agree with but once there is three or less survivors alive it's far too strong.
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I absolutely do agree that the camera hijack shouldn't happen. I think it must of be done for the jump scares which to be fair was cool when Hag first came out but now really it becomes tedious the more you walk over it. Maybe if it was a separate addon called hypnotize or something I'd be alright with that and it drawing the camera in.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Williamz said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
Only with those that try to spread their biased agendas and do not care for balance at all.
You pretty much described yourself. lol.
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@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
I am trying to reach rank 1 for the achievment currently and I cant think of any reward that could force me to go through the unbalance again.First they need to balance the game, then they need to make ranking actually mean sth and then we can talk about rank rewards.
It cant be real that at rank 2 I face teams where I get a single hook after 4 gens poped with ruin and only kill that guy due to hard camp, then the next game I 4k with ease with 2 gens left.
Piping is way too easy in this game.
Btw, after I reached rank 1 I will derank back to 15 lol
In a asymmetrical game it's never really going to be 100% balanced but it's been better than it was which is the main thing. Of course there still plenty of things still need looking at but most games I'm not facing SWF full of DS, flashlights and toolboxes so why not?
Yeah, piping is just a playtime thing really, grinding the game can get you further up more than skill can.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Williamz said:
Self care is good where it stands. There are perks that can impact as well.So tell me again, how is that perk "good where it stands"?
Unlimited self sufficient heals in an asymetrical horror survival game?
2 people healing themself with SC take the same amount of time than them healing each other up, but eliminating the need to find each other or the need that BOTH escape the killer.
They can just spread out and the killer can only follow one, while the other gets a free heal.
It encourages tunneling, which survivor hate, and make perks like Thanatophobia pretty much useless.
I also encourages bodyblocking and tanking hits to an extent where it is annoying to the killer player (toxic).My guess when I read statements like this is: your a survivor main, huh?
If you think Thanatophobia is useless in the current meta and players working together doing hit protection (Hint: it's actually a score event in the game) is toxic then I don't think I'd be able to explain to you how self care is important to the health of cooperative play of survivors.
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@powerbats said:
@Williamz said:
A lot of borderline infinites usually involve buildings with windows. I feel like that they spent a long time trying to change window layouts which does work to some degree but what I think is the right approach is increasing entity window blockers from 16 seconds up to 36 seconds.36 is a bit much but 20 would be fine and if they vault a window right next to it say 5 feet that window has 1 less charge so to speak.
You'd be surprised on some maps as a lot of loop infamous areas have jungle gyms next to them which can easily make 20 seconds fly by. I honestly think 33 - 36 seconds is more adequate.