"I got hit by DS after hooking 2 other survivors" (not as stupid as my spirit changes, I promise)
We've all been there.
DS is certainly a much more balanced perk than it was before. It does its job of anti-tunnelling to some degree, and theoretically, if it the killer plays fair then it's among the most healthy perks for the game.
However, as the title has already implied, it often does more. Not only is it entirely possible to get hit with a DS while not tunnelling, the 60 second timer makes it so that if you're skilled enough to loop the killer for a full minute while injured, you get punished for it and don't get to use your perk.
This rework aims to fix both of these issues with two main points.
1) DS deactivates when another survivor is hooked. Self-explanatory. If the killer hooks someone else, by definition, they aren't tunnelling. (Unless you use the Survivors' Rulebook for Killers definition.)
2) DS' timer pauses while being chased. This makes it so that if you really are getting tunnelled, you don't get punished for being good in a chase.
(as I said, not as stupid as my spirit changes.)
Comments
The fing is: you can be unsafely unhooked, both of you go down but killer hookes the other one knowing that your DS will deactivate. So what can an unsafely unhooked survivor do?
Be punished for the for the unsafe hook obviously. It's not tunneling if you down everyone.
Anyways I'd just make it so if we do this then it replaces the timer entirely. Level scales the stun length.
The idea is that this is supposed to be a sidegrade for game health rather than a direct nerf for balance.
If you successfully loop the killer for the entire deactivation time of DS, then you have done your job as far as a survivor goes. You're not being punished, generators should be being done during that time. Or other survivors could come to your aid an intercept the killer on a loop. There is plenty to be done. But DS isn't supposed to be guaranteed just because you have it.
If you're being unsafely unhooked, then that's on the fault of the rescuer, not the killer and not you. You technically shouldn't be punished for it either, but it's a perfect example of "survivor is a team game and you will get punished for having bad teammates". I don't see the point of balancing around aforementioned bad teammates, because that means good teammates will be absolutely unbearable as killer.
That's true, but it still feels like a punishment when you lose out on activating a perk because you were too good. It's like when you end a game too quickly as killer and safety pip as a result. You also don't get rewarded in terms of BP or emblems for gens being done while you're being chased, so there's a double punishment.
The current DS is just the perfect tool that this game needs to survive in these days of toxicity. The fact that the devs just don't have any solution for dealing with campers / that is punishing them real hard/ makes the perk just needed so people can prolong their game and have the minimum fun as a survivor. Any change will make the game worse and worse for survivor side till the point where all the good players that play solo will leave. In general the game is going in really bad direction in my eyes making it harder and harder and harder for survivors to play solo.
Jallybwan is saying that the game should not be balanced around bad players. Okay! But the game should be balanced around the fact you get RANDOM teammates - good or bad. You can easly assume that if you are lucky at least one of them will be bad but if you add the fact that the current state of the ranking is COMPLETE GARBAGE I'd say half of them will be bad + killer will be a camper half the time. And I really love you last line where you said good survivors will be absolutely unbearable as killer. Well currently the opposite is true for many of the killers in this game. A really good killer is absolutely unbearable as survivor with or without DS. Just check Zubs steam someday. I don't think this guy has lost a game as a killer ever
Well let's see a way that a killer can tunnel in this case and not being punished. Let's suppose the killer is tunneling you (or targeting you if you want to call it that way, wathever the reason is), you go down but then another injured survivor try to make them leave, the surv goes down because he is not that good or whatever the reason is, and the killer hook him first. Does that mean the killer didn't tunnel you? The killer effectively tunneled you but for whatever the reason is, he choosed the another survivor.
Anyway, I think it's better focusing on perks like "Adrenaline" wich I think can be powerful and unfair under certain circumstances.
Oh, I absolutely understand that a good killer is insufferable with random (usually bad) teammates. That's the pecking order of DBD: swf beats killer, killer beats solo. I personally think voice comms should be added into the base game, and then BHVR can balance around that.
I will also agree that the current DS is a good tool to promote healthy gameplay, but it certainly isn't perfect and it could use a bit more tweaking so that it does its job more instead of being an always-strong perk in just about every situation.
Two responses to this.
One, that sounds like a serious misplay on your teammates' part. If the injured survivor is throwing themselves at the killer and getting killed, that's their fault for screwing you over. Another reason why voice comms should be added into the game.
Two, there will always be edge cases with DS where it can't do its job of preventing tunnelling. Nothing can stop a good killer from tunnelling you if he really really wants you dead, no matter how many incentives there are to do otherwise. My rework of DS is not meant to make the perk perfect. It's meant to make the perk better.
Then the question is why is an injured survivor wasting time trying to get you away from tunneling when they could have just been doing generators and let you use your decisive strike.
As a killer if someone is stupid enough to try to pull my attention whilst they are injured after I down somebody. They're screwing over their team because now your teammates have to deal with saving two people potentially leaving no one doing objectives rather than just dealing with saving one person and having two people still on objectives
you were attacked within 60 seconds of being unhooked. If 3 people went down within 60 seconds, the perk is only giving the team a fair shot.
The question is not why a survivor did or didn't an action. And I know. There are a lot of perks (from both sides) that don't work under certain circumstances when they should.
But I like the idea because I am going to write what happended to me one time.
A minute can be a giant amount of time, but under some circumstances it's not. One time I was playing as Feng. I was being chased more or less a minute and then a doctor decided to camp me. Well, two gens poped up. I was on second stage now when a Nea helped me without BT (Doctor still near), I used Lithe so I gain some distance between him and me. Looping for 30 secs when the EGC started. Then I was trying to go to the exit gate that was closer. After the doctor hit me, a surv with a flashlight came and doctor saw her, doctor hit her and wait 10 secs until he decided to grab me again (5 secs more or less of DS remaining) then I hit the skillcheck.
So, yes, he not only was tunneling me but he was camping me as well.
You're comparing two situations that are not alike.
What the OP was talking was what happens when they they are not tunneling and have enough time to down two different people and hook them up but still get hit with the decisive strike because it had like 5 seconds left.
A lot of survivors will take advantage of that by purposefully sticking on generators or or destroying totems in your face and if you try to grab them off it you get punished even though you didn't tunnel.
You experienced with straight up tunnelling and had nothing to do with what the discussion of this post is talking about
What I mean is at the way I am seeing it. It won't punish tunnelers if they don't tunnel in the "classic way". I mean tunnelers will search another way (and you have more ways with this new idea).
If 3 people go down within 60 seconds, either they were extremely bad or the killer was extremely good. Either way, the killer deserves to be winning in that scenario.
Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent someone from tunnelling. Ever. No matter how many mechanics are added into the game, if a good killer hates you and wants you dead, you will die.
That being said, I see no reason to punish a killer with an anti-tunnel perk if they aren't tunnelling you. DS does that nowadays far too often.
If a killer tunnels, they won't care for your DS.
They either will slug you for 60 seconds then camp your slugged body or they will eat your DS and down you again in a chase after that, even if that will cost them this game.
Sure, DS helps with that situation, as it prolongs the game for others to let them get precious time on gens, BUT.
DS is not a anti-tunneling perk, it is actually a 60 second invulnerability perk after being unhooked. It is OFTEN, I mean, ALWAYS, used by survivors who are more than average at this game, as guaranteed escape during EGC, a delayed BT.
It is a silly perk, but not as bad as it once was. DS still needs a tweak, as said by OP, to not be triggered when someone else gets hooked or at least drastically decrease the timer (i.e. 30 seconds less for each different hooked survivor), thus the window for such silly things to happen is much smaller. 60 seconds is a lot of time, A LOT.
This would encourage me to seek out the killer for a chase, then go on a long chase and stab the killer. I’d prefer current DS.
Huh, I suggested something similar a day after this thread was made.
Though mine got less attention.
Because current DS doesn't encourage you to make bold plays and draw attention to yourself?
Your idea would further encourage it.
So it's better to DS a killer that isn't tunnelling you than it is to actually punish tunnelling killers? If it bothers you that much, reduce the timer to 30 seconds or something. And if you're running after the killer and trying to get their attention, you aren't doing gens.