Nomade
Nomade
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891522#Comment_3891522
It really depends on the killer and I'd argue that it's hard for newer players because everything feels like a maze.
For more skilled players, I do not think it's as bad per se.
I mean yeah but then again Midwich is hardly the only map where some killers perform better on it than others. I have to say though, Nurse on Midwich is somehow even more unfair than nurse normally is because she can teleport between floors.
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@Clevarz said:
I feel like chemical trap is underused as a perk and not as valued as it should be even as a killer main which I'm usually against all survivor perks but holy this is broken and looks fun to use it gives the killer 2 options which guarantee distance for the survivor walk around the pallet until the survivor messes up or the survivors runs and gains distance or break the pallet causing yourself to be slowed and the survivor gets a good amount of distance which is like insane and I cant even be mad about it because it's kind of clever and means they are actually doing the objective and not just bullying me and it's kind of funny seeing the survivor just whip a almost C4 like contraption out of nowhere and skedaddle off
in conclusion, Chem Trap is broken use it more I love you guysIts an underused perk compared to Blast Mine and is, I would argue it is equally obnoxious to deal with. If you trap a god pallet with it, you basically get to make it to your next safe loop for free and extend the chase for another 20-30 seconds minimum if you dont screw up.
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All things considered, for most killers Midwich is a pretty fair map, not really favoring any side over the other. Imo probably one of the more fair maps in the game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891399#Comment_3891399
Haddonfield is a killer sided map by virtue of having such gigantic deadzones on it, which is why I used it as an example. Midwich also favours killer on average due to its size/shape and how easily patrollable the exit gates are.
There are definitely more survivor sided maps, but that doesn't mean killer leaning maps don't exist.
I have a big problem with what people classify as killer sided maps. Survivor sided maps tend to be heavily stacked in the survivors favor and there are a number of them. Generally, with the exception of Haddonfield and perhaps the vecna map, the maps that people say are killer sided arent actually killer sided. They just arent survivor sided. A map that is balanced for both sides is not killer sided. Take Midwich for example. For the most part Midwich is a pretty fair map, not really favoring either side. Certain killers might do really well on it but thats gonna be the case on killers that are map dependent.
Ideally, all maps would be fair for both sides and not favor one side over the other. I realize that this might be a bit challenging for the map design team to pull off since DBD is big on licensed content, and there is a big desire from the map design team to stay faithful to the franchise the map is associated with, but some balance problems are really egregious and there really just isnt much of an excuse.
Does Eyrie really need so many safe pallets within a stones throw away from each other? Does Giddeon need to have so many regular and god pallets? Why are the main buildings on so many maps intentionally made to be strong and safe for the survivor as possible? There are some really notorious examples of extremely oppressive main buildings on some of the maps (Disturbed Ward, Ormond, Badham as a few examples) -
Survivors objectivly hold an overwhelming advantage at higher skill levels.
Towards the middle things are less clear and become highly dependant on what killer you are playing as or against but generally things are pretty ok.
On the lower end killers hold the advantage.
This is problematic because new survivor players struggle really hard to get anywhere, while killers are punished for getting better as matches become progressively more and more stacked, forcing them to tunnel, slug or play an S tier killer to stand a chance.
BHVR tends to look at aggregate data that averages the kill rates across all elos and makes balance choices on that. In truth this is ignoring a really important nuance. Kill rates are likely higher at lower elo, more balanced at mid elo and at the high end favor survivors way more.
The goal that BhVR should be chasing IMO is trying to tighten up the spread a bit. Make lower elo more survivable, and nerfing survivors on the higher end. -
If it gives you an unfair competitive advantage, then my guess is probably. BhVR are very strict on cheating once they catch someone so you are better playing on the side of caution if you value your account. I am very doubtful a ban would be reversed once it has been issued.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889677#Comment_3889677
Tell me what I should do with them when anti-slug, tunneling and camping are introduced? My games often give me such gifts. What should I do with them when the second phase goes into effect?
Well, consider what we Survivors did when 6.1.0 dropped. What did we do when MFT was nerfed? What did we do when FTP+Buckle Up was nerfed? What did we do when self-healing and Distortion was nerfed, among other things? We adapted and learned to play around it.
On the flipside, what did you Killers do when basekit BT was introduced? What did you do when the anti-FACEcamp mechanic was introduced, or the 8-regression event limit was introduced? You still found ways to play around it. And I have no doubt that you'll do the same with whatever new system they come out with.
Unless, of course, you do decide to uninstall DBD, in which case, so long, and thanks for all the hooks.
Those perks were really bad for the balance of the game. I am of the opinion that both were equally egregious even if BU+FTP felt so much worse. They should have never made it past QA (Quality Assurance) in that state. BhVR does stuff like that all the time. DIstortion was a cudgel in the hands of SWFs and again, probably shouldnt have made it into the game in that state to begin with.
BhVR says they dont take SWFs into consideration when designing perks and doing balance changes and this is clearly a mistake. If they did consider SWFs I promise you, Distortion would have never made it to live with that effect, ever in 100 years.
Now, onto your main argument. Yes killers will adapt, we allways have. The thing that has people upset is that Survivors get angery about every little thing we do. They get mad when the killer brings a perk they dont like, employs any kind of strategy, when the killer uses their power, and even when the killer kills. Anytime killers adapt, survivors find a reason to complain about it and will scream to high heaven about it until it gets nerfed and or even removed from the game. Meanwhile survivors have gotten numerous basekit buffs, nerfs to hook stages, and progressively stronger and stronger perk options. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889558#Comment_3889558
I think see what you’re saying, but there are some things I still don’t quite understand. You’re stating that at high MMR, killers only win when survivors make mistakes, but shouldn’t survivors who don’t make mistakes win? The way you’ve framed it makes it sound like survivors playing perfectly still shouldn’t be able to escape, which suggests that killers should win even when the other side plays flawlessly. That would remove any competition from the game entirely.
Being the power role doesn’t mean an automatic win, just a statistically higher chance of winning, which is already reflected in the game’s statistics which consistently show killers maintaining a strong position across all skill levels including high MMR. It’s also important to consider that if killers should never be designed/expected to lose, even at high MMR, then why is it acceptable for survivors to be designed/expected to lose at lower and average MMR? If difficulty for one side is a problem, shouldn’t it be a problem for both roles?
Also, I get being skeptical of random forum opinions, it’s good to take most things with a pinch of salt. But if personal experiences are unreliable and official stats from BHVR are to be ignored, then what standard do we use? At a certain point, if both anecdotal and statistical evidence are dismissed, the. The conversations are directionless without any kind of merit unless it’s an opinion that mirrors your own. (Not you directly I just mean in general)
Nope. Not every single game or even the vast majority of games at least. At high levels of play killers have to rely on slugging and tunneling to catch up and build enough map pressure unless they are playing an S tier killer and thats a problem. Some of the tools survivors have are far too strong when used optimally and either gen speeds are too fast or gen regression is too weak or maybe even both.
As things are, actually getting better at killer makes for a worse game experience as the game becomes fundamentally more and more survivor sided after a certain point. This forces the killer to play in specific ways and no one likes it. Counting hooks every game just sucks. Its not interesting or fun, but thats what had to be done. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889265#Comment_3889265
I’m not the original person you’re replying to, but this point confuses me a little. Isn’t this just describing how skill-based progression works in any competitive game? As you improve and win more often, you naturally face stronger opponents—ones who know how to counter you and push you to adapt. Why is that seen as a flaw rather than a normal part of growth? The wins that got you to that point still mattered..they just lead to the next stage of challenge, which is how skill development works in any game.
If the expectation is that winning should always remain easy, then what’s the point of improving? At a certain level, you should be playing against survivors who know how to loop and use meta perks well, just like killers.That’s not a design flaw, that’s just competition.
Yes and no.
Once survivors actually start playing well and acting like a cohesive team, the gens start getting done efficiently and survivors can keep a killer in chase for a long time unless they mess up. Even at high levels of play, mistakes happen, and im not going to pretend that they dont, but it boils down to the fact that it is 4v1. If all of the survivors on a team are good and they are all bringing the best stuff most killers wont be able to keep up unless the survivors make mistakes (which does not sound like a good position for the power role to be in) The only exceptions would be perhaps against the S tier killers.
Killers are thrown far fewer bones than are survivors as well, just another thing to consider.
Its actually a super easy thing to understand but the problem is that the entire MMR system is designed in such a way to make people think they are better than they actually are, which creates a lot of ignorance. Hell, you cant even request your MMR data from BHVR anymore. People say "I dont struggle so you shouldn't either" thinking that they are playing against really good teams when really they are mistaken. I know that im not a top skill level player, but I do watch people who are and what I am seeing and hearing from them vs what some people on here are saying proves that somthing is not right. Im far more inclined to believe what I can actually see and trust in the experts than what some random person on the forums says, no offense. It would be incredibly foolish not to. -
@Alastortheradiodemon said:
That was a whole article to basically say stop nerfing killers and nerf survivors instead??? I'm not a great killer I admit that but I win at least 70 percent of my killer matches with fair gameplay rarely do I slug but when I do it's in last ditch effort to keep survivors on their toes at the exit gates. When I play survivor there's 3 gameplays I face, 1 slugging all 4 survivors off the bat, 2 tic tac toe killer with a 3 gen, and lastly the tunneler strategy. I don't mind that they are all common moves cause they are effective if you wanna win but to make it all there is in DBD is hurting the game more than anything and with the broken MMR new players quit before even starting cause the painful startoff experience and makes it so no new blood is added to the pool
Just wait until you start playing vs survivors who you cant end a chase in 5 seconds against. Once survivors know how to loop you and how to deal with you, if they are bring the meta perks you are going to struggle hard.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I don't think they're gonna nerf DS. They did so much work on that numbers change, buffing it to 4 seconds when it was overpowered at 3, they won't soon undo it.
And I know people will knock on the Babysitter take, but they're not seeing the full picture. Just because it's not as used as DS or OTR doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. Like he said, you're literally running faster than the killer and get Lucky Break for 30 seconds. That's abusable by SWF, who are more likely to use it than solo because they can communicate/dedicate an unhooker. It consistently being given to the unhooked probably makes it better than OTR.
But that's mostly all I can say. We know the game doesn't need more anti-tunnel, but maybe it'll end up replacing the bad system we have now.
I agree with you on Babysitter, even if it isnt used as much as some other perks it was overbuffed. I was pretty mad when they buffed it too because it was apparent even just at first glance that it was being immensely overbuffed. Its just not a good idea to buff and nerf survivor and killer perks by such enormous amounts all in 1 go if balance is what you are after
Honestly, the fact that Babysitter is as powerful as it is and still doesn't get taken as much as other perks says volumes about how powerful the other perk options survivors have truely are.
I think that an anti slugging feature is just a bad idea in general. Even adding a bunch of anti slug perks is probably not super necessary. Simply buffing some of their chase perks might be enough. Survivors need to be pushed away from this tunnel vision gens mentality, and start helping their team more. If survivors are leaving you on the ground to bleed out, it can be easily said that these are the kinds of teammates who would leave you on the hook to die too. -
@bleep275 said:
If you need to camp and tunnel at 2 gens, less, or at all. You are out of your MMR range, and should take the loss to drop down to a bracket on par with your skills. Using cheap tactics to secure a win only artificially increases your MMR and makes things harder for you in the long run.
I do agree with the number of hooks being more influential than the number of deaths.
2 gens or less means the game is nearing its end man. Thats one crazy take.. If anything the higher your MMR and the better survivors you are playing vs, the more necessesary tunneling someone out becomes unless you are playing Nurse. No offense but, im pretty sure dbd players like Tru3talent who have been around for ever are probably better than you are by a country mile and they have been saying that tunneling someone out is necessary when you play the game on a high level and are playing vs tough teams for years.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888924#Comment_3888924
My definition would be that it allows survivors to undo a mistake or extend a chase that should've been lost- an actual second chance at doing something so you can do it better the next time.
By that definition, the only second chance perk I can think of is Dead Hard. Maybe Deliverance too? But that's getting a little abstract with it.
DS, OTR, StB- none of those revolve around undoing mistakes or extending a chase when it would otherwise be lost. They're insurance perks against specific actions the killer could take, and don't work outside of those actions. The same goes for Unbreakable, which sometimes gets called a second chance perk.
I dont think my difinition is necessesarily wrong but I also dont think yours broadly is really wrong either.
Maybe second chance perk should be treated as a larger term and then you have the perks that fall under it sorted into groups according to the type of second chance effect they apply? In general I think this is more of a useful system to adopt because rather than using a term like second chance where many many perks can fall under it, you can say I dont like these specific kinds of second chances or go even more specific and say I dont like these specific perks (which people already do get that specific). So, less generalization. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888912#Comment_3888912
I see.
The reason I wouldn't have considered those myself is that "second chance" implies they simply give you the option to bail out of a lost chase, which these perks don't- they don't undo your mistake, they punish the killer acting in a specific way.
None of them are OP either way, of course, but I was mostly wanting to know your definition.
any perk that give the survivor another chance are second chance perks. STB is a second chance because it allows the trading of a hook state from a stronger survivor to a weaker one. The stronger survivor is not necessarily the best target to chase if you have the option to chase a weaker survivor. There are A LOT of second chance perks and most of them arent even all that bad to deal with. Heck, even the ones that are meta wouldnt even be that bad if it were just one person with one of them. Instead though you end up seeing all the survivors have at least 1 and stacking them has a compounding effect on how difficult a match can potentially be for the killer.
Out of curiosity, what definition do you use for second chance perks? Maybe my definition is not completely right, and i'd like to compare. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888892#Comment_3888892
What OP second chances are you referring to?
That's a genuine question, I'm actually not building to anything. I just see the term "second chances" thrown out a lot and I've realised that if I were to define second chance perks there'd probably only be one in the game currently, so I'm trying to figure out what people typically mean there.
DS, OTR, STB mostly. There are more than that but those 3 are downright offensive. People call them anti tunnel second chance perks but thats not really what they are at all. An anti tunnel perk would activate only if you are hooked consecutively. Thats not what these perks do. DS and OTR have timers. If the killer is playing really well, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that another teammate can get hooked, and the person with DS for example gets chased again for sticking around or trying to unhook, downed and then the killer is punished because they are playing well. They didnt tunnel. This kind of thing happens all the time.
When every survivor in the match is running not just one second chance but many it becomes extremely frustrating to play against
Also, its not like I have a problem with every second chance perk either. Some of them are perfectly fine IMO like DH and SB for example (that is not even close to a comprehensive list) -
@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888880#Comment_3888880
Why should survs always get a 100% safe unhook?
I dont get why survivors need their hands held so much.
Just look at how many second chance perks survivors have. It's laughable and completly outrageous that people think thats STILL not enough. @danielmaster87 is right. Survivors are so incredibly ungrateful towards the devs. Basekit BT + haste off hook, an enormouse number of OP second chances, removal of hook grabs, anti camp and so much more. Not one shred of gratitude. It is never enough no matter how much the devs give to survivors.
Anytime the devs throw killers some crumbs people come out of the woodwork and completely lose their minds. "AHHHHH this game is so killer sided. The devs never give survivors anything". Blah blah blah blah blah.
Im sorry but, it is getting asinine and frustrating. -
@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888541#Comment_3888541
Case in point what others have mentioned. I get 3 downvote but no discourse as to why people would be against this.
I'll do it myself. My suggestion may be a bad idea because people would use it to target people who downvoted them.
At the very least I think the Moderators should have access to the voting data. I am not really convinced us being able to see who up and downvotes is a good idea.
What you are saying though proves the point @smurf made at the beginning of their comment in this thread. Downvotes drive less engagement and the entire purpose of this forum is to be a place of discourse not only between both ourselves as players and between us and BhVR staff as well.
Downvotes discourage discourse in favor of a quick "I dont like this" button. Maybe im alone in this, I can only speak for myself, but I think it is important to understand why someone might disagree with something and not just that they disagree with a thing. At least trying to understand each other is a good thing, and for that, discourse is super important. -
Im not a super big fan of having Flashbangs continuing to be useable when it is clearly bugged. Technically using flashbang in the way that is uncounterable is an exploit the devs are trying to fix.
One question I think is worth asking is: How bad does something have to be bugged to warrant being killswitched, beyond the obvious extremes?
I am actually curious as to if abusing flashbang by throwing it inside of the killer to make it uncounterable is reportable. Technically it is an exploit. If a mod or Mandy could provide some clarity on this I would appreciate it. -
@TheRivulet said:
The main issue arose when it was buffed to stun killers, as it made the viable counter, Lightborn, completely useless
Another main issue of the perk is that because it is based off of repair %, the killer is punished for doing their goal, as when they damage generators, it gives whatever user of the blast mine perk more repair progress to work with
The final issue is that the perk lasts on the generator for too long, 120 seconds is way more time than needed, and should be nerfed to at least 60 seconds
Wait, what? Blast mine is super freaking annoying but calling for a direct nerf seems a bit much.
I think adding it to the list of things lightborn can deal with would be absolutely fine. Same with Chemical trap which I am of the opinion that it is easily the more obnoxious perk. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
So what? It's just irrelevant number…
If your feelings are hurt over something so trivial, then public forum might be not the best place for you.
If it is so irrelivant then why do you care if it stays?
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439126/what-is-public-opinion-on-singularity
I do not play Dead by Daylight sober and probably never will. I do not have the brainpower to play Singularity more than once every quarter. He requires too much thinking for no payoff. The Singularity is the only killer in the game that actually scares me. If The Trapper came into my house, I would laugh because I can loop him around my couch all day long. If the Singularity came into my house, I would scream and run. When his Death Top community cosmetic is released, his play rate will skyrocket and I am sure we will read about how he can be balanced more appropriately on the forums. He is rather underplayed which is unfortunate.
I would suggest you watch QuietKills play singularity. He has a youtube channel as well. He has a bit of a loud personality but holy cow does he play singularity to the effect of a nuclear weapon. I've seen him 4-5 gen 4k teams with players with over 10k hours.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439105/feedback-on-bringing-back-downvotes
I am torn, but my ultimate recommendation would be to keep the downvote system. I spend a lot of my personal time thinking about Dead by Daylight, and I like to post concepts, ideas, new mechanics, etc. I do this for fun, because I enjoy it. I don't mind if someone doesn't like my idea — I think it is important for me to get feedback on idea quality so I am remain aligned with the community. It's not very productive for the game's health if all the ideas that I suggest are not received or welcomed well by others. The point of posting feedback and suggestions should be to make the game a better place for everyone — not to make it perfect for me.
It took me a lot of real life therapy to get to a point in my life where someone can disagree with me and it does not upset me — so I understand how the feature can genuinely affect some players on a personal level. But even with that, we also have to think about the busy professional or adult student that checks the forums and doesn't have the same time or dedication we do. Their voice still needs to be heard and likes/dislikes make that easier for them. Reddit is a dark, stinky swamp where you get penalized and socially humiliated just for daring to have an opinion. I personally believe the culture on the forums will remain professional and dedicated, even with the downvote system. Anyone that makes an account on here cares about the game to some degree—even the ones that are openly aggressive to the developers and share comments that should never be said in real life towards someone.
Feedback based on idea quality isn't just a number though. Being upvoted feels good but if you want actual feedback and discussion then people need to respond to your ideas,. Usually the community is pretty good about picking out interesting discussion points the pop up in a thread and replying to them. There are even a number of people willing to have more nuanced discussions on complicated topics. Far more than what you would normally expect in fact which is nice.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888218#Comment_3888218
First time I tried him I went to Lery's 😕
oh man thats rough. Definitly not a good map for singularity. It might even be his worst map.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888215#Comment_3888215
What would you say about the Eruption Overbrine meta?
Surely that meta was strong enough to warrant a significant decrease in tunneling?
It did significantly reduce the need to do it, yes. I absolutly agree with you on this point. However there is a second thing to consider. Tunneling is also an efficient way to win just like gen rushing is generally an efficient way for survivor to win. There were 2 ways BhVR could have gone about that situation, give survivors more tools or nerf the gen regression perks. They chose the latter.
Survivors have more second chance perks now than were avalible then too so I have no doubt that if survivors have the tools they do now, back in that meta, it would have been less hated. Still not well liked probably, as the survivor playerbase will gripe about allmost anything the killer does but, it would have absolutely been less hated.
Of course all of this is just what if's and dont really matter since the past is the past. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888175#Comment_3888175
There's complex discussion and then there's a whole lot of talk without anything to back it up. You set out a lot of conjecture in your post, but fail to point to any concrete, practical examples. The only ones you mention are TCM, which handles its killer agency in a very different way, and Evolve, which by your own admission goes against your theory.
That just doesn't leave much to go on for this 'very, very strong corelation'.
What the hell do you want from me, to write an entire thesis in response to you, which we both know you will just nitpack one random little thing and then use that to gaslight me?
The response I gave you was already almost 1k words. Thats almost 2 pages. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
His presence instills me with anxiety. He's insanely oppressive. I dread seeing my teammates tentacles start to tingle because if that chase is 5 seconds long thr whole match is probably cooked.
I'd still take him over Wraith and Hag
If you are playing against a good singularity, he is incredibly oppressive. He has some counterplay but some of that counterplay is pretty counter to what survivors will do against most killers
- Do not attempt to pallet stun him. If he teleports to you and you try to drop a pallet on him while he is overcharged it will instabreak the pallet and he gets to hit you instantly for free.
- you cant rely on pallets in general. He chews through pallets so fast when he is overcharged that pre dropping wont help much. You wont gain nearly as much distance as you think you will. If you pre drop and the singularity is able to predict it and teleport to you, it will instabreak the pallet and give him a free hit before you can even move. Pre dropping can be very risky.
- gaining distance during a chase rarely helps that much because he can just teleport right behind you. This shuts down some window loops too.
- You have to know when to EMP and use LoS to avoid getting tagged by slipstream. There is just no other way around it.
- Singularity is kind of map dependant. I feel he does a lot better on the outdoor maps. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888178#Comment_3888178
The problem with this line of thinking is that it puts two requirements on the survivor player that aren't reflected in any requirements for the killer player.
In order to beat tunnelling, a survivor both has to be disproportionately skilled in chase and only bringing three perks of their own actual choice, since one slot has to be reserved for OTR.
By contrast, the killer player needs no dedicated perks to attempt to tunnel, and it requires disproportionately less skill in chase to do considering that the survivor starts the chase out of position and down a health state.
Doesn't that sound unbalanced to you?
Tunneling is just a natural part of the game. On a team of survivors not all survivors are going to be of exactly the same skill level. Someone might be having a really good day, someone might be having a really bad one. A killer is going to find the weakest person on a team and down them, and then because they are the weakest player on the team they are more likely to make more mistakes and be downed more. Its not a malicious thing. If you were playing killer and you had at least 1 and probably more gens pop by the time you hooked your first survivor are you going to pick the strongest person on the other team to commit to or are you going to pick some of the weaker players?
Gens go by way way way too fast for killers to just hook random survivors if the team they are playing against is good and they are being efficient on gens. There is just no way to do it. As frustrating as being tunneled out can be, it is often just necessesary for killers to keep up against good survivors unless you want every match to devolve into playing against Nurse and Blight only.
If people want for a meta to exist where killers dont tunnel as much survivors must be willing to accept certain concessions to keep the game fair. Either gens need to have far, far more ticks to completion or the slowdown that killers have needs to be a lot stronger, and or the killer needs to be able to use a 3 gen to slow the game down to a point where they can catch up.
Every single time I have ever brought this up, people just gaslight me and tell me i'm wrong or try to shift the discussion away from that point. -
@danielmaster87 said:
It is as survivor sided as we say. You just don't see it in a mismatch, which this MMR system thrives on. I mean, how do you even go from Wraith slowing gens over and over to a Huntress who doesn't know she has hatchets... within 2 matches of each other? 1 sounds efficient with smart perks, and the other sounds like they don't have a clue. That's not even close to consistent skill level. The entire point of MMR is consistency, putting you with players your own level depending on how much you win/lose.
And another thing highlighted here is the DC culture, even with the killers. If the match is as hopeless as you think, won't the opponent just beat you in the next minute or 2? Why not play it out, get your BP, and maybe you'll even win?
I don't think they're catering to the killer sided. They throw crumbs. I've seen too many posts of people picking up killer for the first time, or a killer they've never played, and instantly get put against impossible odds. Yet others claim that the role takes no brain power, and that you CAN just start playing killer and get endless 4ks. Somebody's lying. I've seen some silliness in my time, like the complaints against Windows supposedly being OP, but I tend to give benefit of the doubt to the killers. They're cynical about every update that comes out that could potentially help the survivors, because the base formula of the game already favors them. They physically don't have enough time.
The killer cannot be in 4 places at once. The instances where they they're pressuring 2 people or even the whole team should be few and far between. There should always be at least 1 survivor on a gen. M1 killers, whether it's Wraith, Doctor, Pig, Clown, Pinhead, Singularity, should be easy for you to beat. You don't have to heal, unless the killer's like really good at chasing to where you need 2 chances, so you can push gens while injured. You should know the check spots at loops like shack, TLs, and long walk jungle gyms which have basically no mindgame for the killer to use. Bring smart perks which speed up your objective, which buy you time/waste the killer's time, and which counter popular strategies. Do all of that, or some of it, and you basically can't lose. I don't know how teams just get overwhelmed by what little the killer can do. Actually, I do know, and it's called mismatches, good killers being put against bad survivors. Experience enough matches like that, and anyone would be convinced killer is OP.
The new player expierience in DBD is pretty bad, for both sides i'd say. Kind tough to really say who has it worse.
The other points you bring up are pretty sound and in my opinion correct as well. Trying to change peoples minds is almost as difficult as walking on liquid water though, so most discussions on those other points you made just end in a bunch of gaslighting. -
Larry is very strong when played by someone who is really good with him. If you have ever seen QuietKills play Larry, you will know just how nuts he is in the hands of someone who is really good with him.
Playing him well though is tough, he has a high skill floor compared to many other killers and a higher skill ceiling than many killers too. His power has a lot of nuance, and when played right he can instantly break pallets if a survivor tries to pallet stun him and he teleports as it drops. He chews through pre dropped pallets really fast too. He is super good at applying loads of map pressure very quickly by teleporting all over the place.
He has counterplay but a lot of survivors also dont really know how to play against him because he isnt really picked all that often since he came out. -
Ive said it in a couple of other threads but seeing as how this is the feedback section I will mirror my thoughts here.
I do not see anything positive coming from the addition of downvotes. It is highly trollable, has a chilling effect on discussions where there are dissenting opinions that are absolutly worth exploring and pushes discussions towards becoming an echo chamber like Reddit.
Right and wrong are not a popularity contest and so I dont feel that voting in generally really serves much purpose. Downvoting in particular though will discourage opinions that run counter to mass opinion and that is both unhelpful and damaging. -
@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887367#Comment_3887367
after a day or two of leaving this thread to bake I come back and see youre still trying to argue with this person and I advise you not to.
ha I just realized ive talked to them before about this and they've done the exact same thing - just endless gaslighting.
many people in this whole thread are beyond saving, I think. they cant think outside the box at all, because the second you say something to even remotely defend tunneling youre deemed and seen as a skilless killer.
no matter how many times you tell them that the whole "spread pressure and spread hooks" strategy doesn't work against any good survivor team they will just continue to gaslight you and say things like "you just aren't good enough and haven't practiced" or "you shouldn't win every game" they never actually address the issue - spreading hooks is too weak so tunneling is rampant. if you nerf tunneling without buffing the spreading hooks play style, then that's a problem and people will complain.or, alternatively, you'll get someone who "plays killer alot and NEVER has to tunnel" and its like sure ok good for you, thanks for telling me that you never go against good teams ever in your life because no matter how godlike you are at this game if you are sent to eyrie as a b tier killer against cracked survivors and you willingly choose to play inefficiently then you will lose.
but oh well, I guess I should just take games like those up the ass after the only chance to win them is beaten further into the ground because im "not supposed to win every game"You are definitely right. They have their own opinion and im never going to convince them of what im saying in a million years reguardless of how much logic I put out there or how well i explain my position. I did call them out for gaslighting me but ultimately removed it because i felt the accusation was perhaps a bit abrasive. If they want to learn about what i was talking about the information is definitely out there if they look.
I think I was more continuing the discussion just on the off chance someone else was paying attention to what I was saying who was willing to be a little bit more receptive. -
I honestly dont really think downvoting really does anything positive for the discussions that happen on these forums. I've seen on other forums for other games in the past where trolls would silently troll every single comment, mass downvoting everyone. If a comment gets downvoted enough will it get buried? If so, thats a really bad thing. Thats what reddit does and we all know how well that has worked for turning every discussion into an echo chamber.
Forum boards exist to have conversations, and where there are conversations, you will typically find opinions, and sometimes inconvenient truths. A massively upvoted comment is not necessarily correct just as a massively downvoted one is not always wrong. Its not a popularity contest. -
@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888022#Comment_3888022
idk but I like this dislike button lol
I'm not sure. Sometimes dowvotes can be heavily abused by trolls. I've seen it before. I've also seen on places like reddit the voting system and burying of comments creates an echo chamber and thats not good for anyone. Right and wrong are not a popularity contest.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888045#Comment_3888045
So you've mentioned two games, one of which kinda goes against your point, and the other one is TCM. I've played TCM, and what you're describing does not match my experience of it at all.
Yeah im not going to give you a comprehensive list otherwise i'd be here forever typing up somthing no one will bother reading.
Unfortunately I have learned over the years that people do not have the patience to listen to a complex discussion. Anything nuanced has to be dumbed down or people will look at you as though you are the idiot. Making that post any longer than it allready is would be a waste of my time. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888032#Comment_3888032
How many asymmetricals have actually lasted longer than a year to warrant this armchair developer analysis?
Many. We have seen enough asyms over the past few years that it is very simply to analyze what went wrong with them and look for common themes. This is why I said "correlation". One of the most consistent problems with the asyms that have failed was lack of agency in the power role. Now, there can be a lot of reasons this can happen, and from a developer standpoint I will cut a break and admit that it is not a super easy thing to deal with.
In games where you have a power role trying to hunt down a larger group of players (for simplicity sake lets call this the survivor role since thats what we are all familiar with), usually the monster, killer, or whatever constitutes as the power role are played by less casual players on average, while the survivor role tends to lean more towards the casual side. This is going to mean that the number of survivor players are more numerous than the power role players. This by itself is actually a good thing otherwise it would take much longer to get into a match when queuing up as the power role.
The problem is, the developers are going to usually want to favor the casual playerbase (survivors). The power role will try to adapt as much as they can but eventually, the lack of player agency either caused by hard removal or just not having much to begin with will create a situation where playing the power role isnt fun and people will stop. At the end of the day, you can only adapt so much before you just need more tools. You can actually see this happening with TCM.
Again there are reasons the developers for a game may want to prioritize the survivor role over the power role but it is a trap. Balance in these kinds of games is never easy, but very often these developers are making a conscious decision to weaken the power role to the point where it is frustrating and not fun to play for the benefit of the masses. Its not an accident, and by the time the developers realize that what they have done was a mistake, it's too late. You have a dramatic drop off in the number of players willing to play one side which increases the queue times for the other, ultimately leading to the survivor players leaving because they cant get into a match either.
The game will then linger on in a state where you have bad balance issues and a near non existent playerbase, no matter what the developers try to do, the damage has been done. Though it may take some time, eventually once the game reaches this stage, the developers will give up and pull the plug.
I can think of only one example of a game where the opposite might have been true happened and the power role had more power than the survivor role did beyond the earlier stages of a match (which was by design if im not mistaken). Evolve. Yes, it died too but it reached the end stage of decline with extremely low player counts quickly and it was almost exclusively due to other reasons (Monetization was the biggest issue. It was a different time and if the game had released today, it would not have had issues in that department, in fact I suspect people would be happy with it considering it was non gacha DLC style MTX). It actually lasted quite a long time before it was shut down. Even though the official servers are long gone, there are still a lot of people who like the game.
One of the biggest reasons DBD has lasted longer than any other Asym in this genre is because BHVR have historically embraced player agency, and allowed players to play a match out mostly in whatever way they desire. There are some restrictions, like you cant intentionally hold a match hostage, cheat, or abuse exploits, espically when they cause someone to not be able to play the game at all (survivors used to be able to abuse an exploit that allowed them to trap the killer forever with nothing they could do to escape. Often this was pared with the other survivors deliberatly holding the match hostage, forcing the killer to FF the match and DC). Instead BhVR gives players tools to either create new strategies, bolster existing ones, or provide tools with which to use against different strategies and perks from the opposing side. Now, we can talk about the balance of these perks and tools all day because there are certainly some problems to be talked, but the underlying design direction with this strategy is undeniably a healthy one, and that is backed up by how long DBD has been around for. -
@BorisDDAA said:
Where did this agency term come from. I keep seeing it in every post lately
Agency basically means options and freedom. The hard removal of player agency is dangerous and extremely harmful for the game. By hard removal I mean developer intervention where they swoop in and break strategies from working. Hard removal does not mean a standard nerf to perks or survivors getting perks to deal with something. Hard removal isnt caused by a shift in the meta by itself.
Lack of player agency, particularly within the power role has very, very strong correlation with the downturn and eventual death of many Asyms. -
@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887142#Comment_3887142
YOU may not play specifically to make survivor's lives miserable but there are many that do.
A killer slugging at 5 gens is playing to win any way they can not caring that they are making survivors games miserable.
People keep saying killer perks were "nerfed to the ground" yet all I see in my games are pop/pain res/grim even after the nerf because those perks are still strong. They may not be as strong as they were but guess what, there are survivor perks that have been "nerfed to the ground" in the same respects.
Personally, I do not care what perks a killer runs, I care how they play and unfortunately most of them play like total turds. I played three matches of 1v4 last night and all three were a 4 man slug. Keep in mind, I solely play solo q.
Says who? You? Killers can play however the heck they want. No one should ever even entertain this "rules for thee but not for me" argument.
-
@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887142#Comment_3887142
YOU may not play specifically to make survivor's lives miserable but there are many that do.
A killer slugging at 5 gens is playing to win any way they can not caring that they are making survivors games miserable.
People keep saying killer perks were "nerfed to the ground" yet all I see in my games are pop/pain res/grim even after the nerf because those perks are still strong. They may not be as strong as they were but guess what, there are survivor perks that have been "nerfed to the ground" in the same respects.
Personally, I do not care what perks a killer runs, I care how they play and unfortunately most of them play like total turds. I played three matches of 1v4 last night and all three were a 4 man slug. Keep in mind, I solely play solo q.
Says who? You? Killers can play however the heck they want. No one should ever even entertain this "rules for thee but not for me" argument.
-
A SCP killer would be cool.
-
@shadow_V said:
My whole team lost against a tier 3 infinite myers with trail of torment and he stayed by the gen so we couldn't stop regression but by the time we realized it would be better to find another gen it was too late to recover the match.. Amanda's letter can make the pig very deadly and stealthy on indoor and outdoor maps too with the right perks and ghostface is crazy on mothers dwelling even on wreckers yard he's not easy to spot until he's already stalked you.. just the other day I got killed by a myers with infinite and the add-on to mori because he had insidious and was hiding in a corner on an OUTDOOR map I wasn't being careful because as I know he is supposed to have a terror radius but there's perks that alter his power which I don't get why people don't see that as a problem so being stealthy is not a problem it just depends how you go about being stealthy. myers definitely doesn't need any changes the only thing I'll give you is he could have a bit more lunge to him but with his current add-ons he's still deadly its almost unfair for example a vanity mirror myers on treatment theater slugged all 4 of us because of an unfair advantage AKA the add-on made them all bot then was waiting to mori me and we didn't even do anything literally he did it at 5 gens
Yeah…. Myers definitly needs some more TLC for sure. I know they gave him some nice buffs a few months ago that helped him a lot and were a huge step in the right direction for him. He needs more though.
I want to see him not be able to run out of his stalk. To compensate perhaps BhVR could make it so that if Myers stalks the same person for a long time without stalking anyone else that progression on evil within slows down a bit.
I also think he needs more buffs to his addons other than his tombstones and in some cases, even just full redesignes for some of his addons even. This would help support more playstyles and builds, making him more interesting to play with and against.
Once his power and addons are in a good spot i think BhVR could consider nerfing his tombstones because they are clearly very problematic and have been since he came out.
So needless to say, i'm all for buffs to his scratched mirror addon. -
@Anti051 said:
- You can get punished by anti-tunnel perks even when you don't tunnel, that's a pretty major one.
- Being able to weaponize off-the-hook endurance and OTR endurance by body blocking teammates with it instead of using it for the intended purpose of being a buffer against getting tunneled. Removing collision on these features would be more fair.
- OTR invincibility sticks even when you get healed to full, it needs to drop off when becoming fully healed.
- If a survivor is unhooked and DS activates, it needs to deactivate if the killer downs and hooks a completely different survivor because the killer isn't tunneling at that point.
Anti tunneling perks doent really exist.
The biggest anti tunnel feature that survivors have is baskit BT + haste off hook.
Perks like DS and OTR have an activation time or a flat out time in which they are active for. This means that if the killer is playing well and your team is screwing up and they are able to down teammates too efficiently, your so called "anti tunnel" perks punish them when they go after you because they were able to be efficient on your other team members. They are anti killer efficiency and anti pressure perks, not anti tunnel perks. -
I dont really see the phase 1 changes as being anything other than QOL stuff that benefits everyone. Preventing salty people from holding the match hostage is a good thing for everyone. No one likes spoiled sports. Go next prevention isn't somthing I really want to comment on, because its kind of poiintless. If a survivor wants to leave the match, a go next prevention only slows it down. they could just stay slugged on the ground or afk, which arguably hurts the team even more until they realize what is happening.
The only thing that survivors are getting nerfed on are spawns and lets be real here, most survivors arent really taking advantage of spawning behavior right now anyway. -
@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887367#Comment_3887367
Why are you yelling at me? I was politely disagreeing with you, and you came in quite hot.
The only reason you aren't calling to remove unbreakable is because it's a very mid perk. You can get up once, but here's the thing, killers can slug you more than once. Boon unbreakable is very easily countered by killers, and can't be set up while slugged. Once those 2 options are gone survivor agency is gone.
It's not like camping the hook causes the entity to hold you in place for a minute at a time. Or tunneling someone sends you to a different realm. Killer agency is alive and well. If you want to camp, tunnel, and slug then do it. The option is still there.
Forcing survivors to stay in a match and crawl around on their belly because the Killer hasn't downed everyone yet is a bad move on BHVRs part.
The devs have given so much to killers that they think they are high mmr gods, and every survivor is low mmr. The game is about to crash hard because everyone is unhappy.
I apologize if I came off that way, I was not yelling at you. I did use bold font to emphasize a point but i did not mean for it to come across as me yelling at you.
I am growing rather frustrated with Firellius though because i feel he is being obtuse and we are going in circles as a result.
I do not call for the removal of perks. Buffs and nerfs are one thing, but removal? That is somthing else entirely, and I do not advocate for over buffing or over nerfing of perks as well. In fact I am a very big critic of it, and call it out, for both sides, when it happens in other forums for discussion.
I agree, spending huge amounts of time unable to interact meaningfully with the match is not fun, but that is a teammate problem first, not a problem with the act of leaving someone on the ground. This is happening because people hyper fixate on rushing gens rather than helping their team. There are a number of things survivors can do that is effective against slugging but rather than adapting, people are trying to get BHVR to ctrl alt delete it from the game. People would rather point the finger at killers and slugging than accept that they messed up by leaving their team on the ground and tunnel visioning gens all game. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887367#Comment_3887367
Slugging does NOT hard remove player agency from the survivors.
You can literally barely move for up to four minutes. You can hardly get -less- agency in the game.
This is totally different from BHVR swooping in and bashing entire strategies to death to the point where you actually cant do them at all.
When have they -ever- done that? Is it impossible to tunnel through DS/OTR? Can you not camp anymore?
Or are you demanding that you can choose whatever strat you want and then not deal with the consequences of that decision?
So pick your gosh darn teammates up you fool.
Take unbreakable. Take chase perks to help you.
As for when have they ever done that? Oh I dont know, how about the gen kick limit that should have been removed when they gutted SM. How about the removal of hook grabs? Or the anti camp mechanic.
I dont camp, it was somthing I never enjoyed so i just didnt do it. That is a very real example of BHVR swooping in and thanosing an option from existence though. The gen kick limit too. Now, survivors dont get punished for 3 genning themselves which I will add is a survivor mistake. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887301#Comment_3887301
This entire slugging situation has happened as a result of survivors stacking multiple second chance perks
How do these remove killer agency, exactly?
Because the flipside is that killers keep saying there's no reason for them to not tunnel. The addition of these so-called 'second chance perks' (A name that always struck me as ironic, considering survivors are supposed to have three chances) actually makes the obvious best strategy of tunnelling not the obvious best strategy anymore. Now you actually have a meaningful choice and can thus exert your agency.
nerfs to hook stage timers
Which is a reflection of the indirect buff that camping got in 6.1.
repeated nerfs to basically all killer gen regression perks.
Which are still top of the line, still steadfast picks in any meta build. Shouldn't they need to be brought in line with other killer perks to restore agency in that perk selection?
You can bring any perk you want but if you are gonna ignore the prevalent playstyle that killers are using then you really dont get to complain about what may happen as a result of that.
Okay.
Apply that same logic to how killers should respond to nerfs to camping, tunnelling and slugging.
Dude there is so much wrong with your response that is broken beyond repair. I honestly dont have any idea where you are even coming from with some of this and what i do understand i see as you being intentionally obtuse.
@Pit_Bull_Love You are making the very same mistake Firellius is. Slugging does NOT hard remove player agency from the survivors. You have to use the tools you have available to deal with it, yes, but that is the result of HAVING player agency not the lack of player agency. This is totally different from BHVR swooping in and bashing entire strategies to death to the point where you actually cant do them at all. Removal of player agency would be like killers asking for unbreakable to be removed from the game. Removing player agency means removing options. You still very much have options for dealing with slugging and no one, not even me would argue for their removal.
At the brass tacks, what you really want is for killers to be forced to deal with all the super OP second chances survivors get again, only without any of the tools with which to deal with them. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887270#Comment_3887270
Survivor has anti slug perks.
Not much agency if the killer can dictate what perks you have to bring.
If you are ignoring downed teammates and slamming gens then its kind of your fault you lose.
That's funny, because another forum killer in another thread was telling me the survivors should stay spread out, which is kinda hard to do if you want to pick up your buddies.
There are definitly ways survivors can counter slugging but everyone wants to ignore them.
Shouldn't I have the agency to play the way I want to?
Survivors do that to killer players too though. You cant really argue that. This entire slugging situation has happened as a result of survivors stacking multiple second chance perks, nerfs to hook stage timers and repeated nerfs to basically all killer gen regression perks. Killers were simply adapting to the nerfs that the devs have done and the the meta perks survivor brings.
Survivors need to do the same thing and react to the meta. You can bring any perk you want but if you are gonna ignore the prevalent playstyle that killers are using then you really dont get to complain about what may happen as a result of that. It is like sticking your hand on a blistering hot pan and then getting mad because the pan is hot and you got burned.
There is a difference between choosing to take off meta perks or play in a goofy way and BhVR swinging the mighty hammer of hard player agency removal like they have done with killers in the past and are now wanting to do again. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887265#Comment_3887265
Removal of player agency will kill this game.
Bit of a conundrum, then, when the only agency killer players seem to want to exert is the one that removes all agency from the survivor.
Survivor has anti slug perks.
Edit: I will also point out that if you are trying to slam gens, slugging punishes that really hard. Thats another reason it is preferable. If you are ignoring downed teammates and slamming gens then its kind of your fault you lose. Its like ignoring a teammate opn the hook. You cant blame slugging for that.
Bring unbreakable and chase perks. Learn the maps and how to loop well. Pick up downed teammates as fast as you can. There are definitly ways survivors can counter slugging but everyone wants to ignore them. -
@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887041#Comment_3887041
I don't know how anyone can see these things as buff to survivors.
1. Surrender is absolutely not a buff to survivors, if anything it's a neutral. It's a buff to killers though, as it encourages slugging. If you don't like being slugged, you can just surrender, because BHVR is actively encouraging this play style. Why would anyone DC when slugged? Survivors can't afford to take that many DC penalties, so you tab out of the game instead which will still happen with this.
2. No one is complaining about gamma settings. This should have been in the game from day one.
3. Let's be real, this is going to be coded like crap and people are going to be punished for playing the game. But this also do not address the issue...why are survivors going next. Sure some times they are just sore losers, but there are tons of legit reasons, but let's just bandaid the real issue. What if BHVR said they would ban killers for camping, but it's not camping if you are chasing another survivor near the hook. Would you trust them to code that correctly? Because I wouldn't. Tons of people are going to get punished unnecessarily.
4. The crow changes are also a nerf. Whether or not it's a good nerf, or easy to counter, it's a nerf, or buff to killers. And you think killers should get aura and exposed, and that wouldn't be a nerf?? In what world? You know killers would just troll by blocking a survivor until they became exposed, and then slug them. And if another survivor blocked a teammate, the "victim" should be punished in your opinion?
5. One survivor map offerings didn't/doesn't counter a killer offering. They are equal. Personally just delete map offerings if they are such a big deal. No, killers should not automatically get the map over survivors. Ya know... the only way to counter the killer is to give more power to swfs... just stop.
6. Spawning together is also a nerf, that's why no survivor's run the shroud offering, because it's detrimental to your team.
Don't worry about the drink. I thought you were somewhat reasonable, but after this chat, I don't care to share a drink with you. You are very biased and it shows.
Those arent really the changes that have killers upset. Its whats coming in phase 2.
Survivors have really powerful (some too powerful) tools and when you are facing half decent survivors, a killer MUST use some kind of strategy. In hook metas a lot of the time that is tunneling. There is not enough time in the match with how fast gens fly to 12 hook a whole team. You just cant.
Now hooks have become so weak, and survivors have so much obnoxious BS around being hooked and making hooking stupid hard or even impossible, that killers have started to slug. Every single time killers come up with a strategy that works survivors complain until it gets nerfed or hard removed.
Its this hard removal of player agency from the killer side that has me in particular so upset. Matches are dynamic and killers have to be able to react to what happens in a match but when you start taking away playstyles you are limiting killers to only be able to react to certain things. Meanwhile survivors have no such restrictions. Killer is supposed to be the power role but with all of these nerfs that have happened with things being straight up removed or hard capped, and the upcoming changes that will gut other effective playstyles killer is increasingly feeling less and less like the power role.
Removal of player agency will kill this game. Its a super bad thing and no one should be for it. The devs are about to make a massive mistake and start bleeding killer players which could begin a doom loop. If BhVR does go through with this and takes away player agency like they seem to plan on, I will not continue playing the game. -
@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887041#Comment_3887041
I don't know how anyone can see these things as buff to survivors.
1. Surrender is absolutely not a buff to survivors, if anything it's a neutral. It's a buff to killers though, as it encourages slugging. If you don't like being slugged, you can just surrender, because BHVR is actively encouraging this play style. Why would anyone DC when slugged? Survivors can't afford to take that many DC penalties, so you tab out of the game instead which will still happen with this.
2. No one is complaining about gamma settings. This should have been in the game from day one.
3. Let's be real, this is going to be coded like crap and people are going to be punished for playing the game. But this also do not address the issue...why are survivors going next. Sure some times they are just sore losers, but there are tons of legit reasons, but let's just bandaid the real issue. What if BHVR said they would ban killers for camping, but it's not camping if you are chasing another survivor near the hook. Would you trust them to code that correctly? Because I wouldn't. Tons of people are going to get punished unnecessarily.
4. The crow changes are also a nerf. Whether or not it's a good nerf, or easy to counter, it's a nerf, or buff to killers. And you think killers should get aura and exposed, and that wouldn't be a nerf?? In what world? You know killers would just troll by blocking a survivor until they became exposed, and then slug them. And if another survivor blocked a teammate, the "victim" should be punished in your opinion?
5. One survivor map offerings didn't/doesn't counter a killer offering. They are equal. Personally just delete map offerings if they are such a big deal. No, killers should not automatically get the map over survivors. Ya know... the only way to counter the killer is to give more power to swfs... just stop.
6. Spawning together is also a nerf, that's why no survivor's run the shroud offering, because it's detrimental to your team.
Don't worry about the drink. I thought you were somewhat reasonable, but after this chat, I don't care to share a drink with you. You are very biased and it shows.
Those arent the changes that have Killers upset. Its the ones coming in phase 2 that have people pissed.
Killers have adapted over the years to all the new metas that pop up. Some require some swapping arounf of perks others require a radical playstyle change. Every single time killer players find a playstyle that actually works against more than just mediocre survivors, survivors cry and cry and cry until they get it nerfed.
thats where all the basekit buffs survivors have gotten have come from, on top of hook grabs being removed, gen regression limit, anti camp, and now they want to add in anti tunnel and anti slug too.
Every single strategy we can use to actually win against good teams it looks like is about to be gutted. Survivors NEVER have to deal with the gutting of their strategies, in fact, over the years gen rushing tools have just gotten stronger and stronger over all. More second chances. Insanely broken perks like STB. Uncounterable flashbangs. Easy flashlight saves. The list goes on and on. Both sides have to deal with perk buffs and nerfs, but killer is the only side really that has to deal with hard removal of player agency.
The biggest issue I have isnt even the overpowered stuff survivors have. Its the removal of player agency from the killer. It is so damn unfair and its not right. It's a "rules for me but not for thee" situation because survivors have complete freedom still with how they play, but killers are forced to follow all of these stupid rules. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887154#Comment_3887154
My lord, why do people think others have the time to make separate accounts or bot accounts to get upvotes on a comment?
Do people on these forums genuinely care about getting upvotes lol? I got happy when I reached 500, but the accusations of bot upvote farming is weird.
I go on here, read a comment fully, upvote, or respond. It's really not a hassle to think that others simply agree, upvote, and move on lmao.
Upvotes truely do not matter, there are more survivors and so survivor favored comments are more likely to recieve more upvotes. Also this is not a popularity contest. Some people might hate me for my opinions and I honestly could not care less if I tried.
When I or someone else makes a valid point and another person says somthing in response and they get massivly upvoted while I only get a couple of upvotes, I just see it for what it is. There are more survivor players and so they will bandwagon more, even if the argument is kind of absurd. Ive seen people say some really crazy things and still get upvotes.