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Nomade
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958223#Comment_3958223
2019 was the last time. I made an edit and linked the stats I found. The stats include both Xbox and ps4 numbers, too. So it's much better than 2017, but yes still 6 years old.
I love the quote "Statistics don't lie, but liars love statistics."
Like I said, I'd love to see an updated stats as well. If we could get stats from every year, that would be awesome. (Year 1, year 2, etc.)
By Omitting stats and important context behind those stats, they are essentially making it difficult to trust a single thing they put out. If they are manipulating sentiment by omitting data and context, then they could be fudging the data they do show us too. I want to see the updated stats and context behind those stats.
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958214#Comment_3958214
They did release stats about each: solo, 2 man, 3 man, and 4 man. If I recall correctly, it was a few years ago and they did it only once. The majority was solo…60%? Then duos, then 3 mans, and a 4 man was 4% at the time. I would love to see an update of numbers as well.
Edit: looks like these results were from 6 years ago, hahaha! But my memory wasn't too far off, so yay me! https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/61114/community-community-data-requests?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=community+data+request
they are hiding the data. I looked it up and the last time we had any stats on this was in 2017, in the games infancy. BhVR is picking and choosing what stats they are showing us to push a narrative. Anyone who has taken a statistics class will tell you definitively that statistics can be manipulated to tell a lie, and one of the ways this happens is by omission of data that shows that something not so good is happening.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956493#Comment_3956493
There's nothing wrong with wanting the 4k, but you should earn it. When the third Survivor dies, the game becomes a race for the hatch, and you shouldn't be able to cross the finish line before the race even starts.
I did earn it, i caught all your team mates.
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The overwhelming majority of survivors are SWFing it up because BhVR are hiding the stats. I have never ONE time seen BhVR ever release statistics for just how much of the survivor playerbase is SWFing in their matches. I think it is time for an audit.
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thats what they have to do. Why is it so wrong for the killer to want the 4k? Why am I gonna carry the second to last survivor to hook just so that the other survivor can rat for free hatch? If I want the 4k thats just stupid.
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Technically, its because killer is easily the more stressful role to play, though I assume thats not what you are really asking. The survivor objective is faster to complete than the killer one is when teams are being efficient on gens. This means the killer can afford to make far fewer mistakes than the survivors can. Killers dont have anywhere near the ability to have perks erase punishments from mistakes that survivors get and survivor gets far more of these kinds of perks. This creates a situation where killer players have less breathing room and have to play much sweatier. There are other reasons for the stress too, i just dont think this part of it gets enough attention.
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Wow, if true thats wild. If this really is happening, yeah it should be kill switched.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954376#Comment_3954376
Oh no, we're experienced alright. As in we've experienced this tedium way too often and we'd like BHVR to do something about it. Doesn't matter if it's not personal when it's not the way the game is intended to be played.
Survivors have three hook states and Killers are rewarded with pips and BP for progressing through them for a reason. Could it be because that's the intended way to play the game? Tactical slugging is fine, but it's hard to justify this cheesy shortcut to securing a 4K.
Since BHVR have now taken away all informal methods of tapping out (or "going next" if you prefer), Survivors should at the very least be given the option to bleed out quicker when slugged like this. Nobody wants to be stuck in a match like this.
I really dont like the whole "intended to play" argument, its not very good. I never make this kind of argument for a very good reason. Its only useful when arguing with a cheater. Aside from really outrageous kinds of behavior (no, slugging, camping and tunneling are not considered outrageous. Im talking about extreme remarks in the end game chat, harassment, things that are just categorically unacceptable no matter what happened during the match.), there is no rulebook. the game gives both sides an objective and it is your job to do what it takes to complete it. The game tells killers even in the tutorial to prevent the survivors from escaping by any means, and tells survivors to do whatever it takes to escape.
It is not up to either side to make up rules for how the other side must play. Gen efficient stratagies on the survivors side are perfectly fine to do, but killers can use stratagy too. It is not okay to scream foul play every time you lose a match for whatever reason. Emotions can run hot after a match, which is why its important to take a deep breath and slow down. Go from reaction mode to thinking mode. -
@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954381#Comment_3954381
I was talking specifically about DCs. The things you mention are not the same as DCs.
Right, i guess what im getting at is that the end result between DCing and other ways survivors can greif a match is more or less the same so distinguishing between those isnt exactly super useful at least to us as players. For the developers that kind of information could be useful, for us though, we cant really do anything with that more specific information. Thats why I tend to lump it all in together.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952777#Comment_3952777
That’s not statistically possible. That would mean on average any given player DC’s once every 0.8 x 1/4 or in 20% of matches, even higher if more than one person is dc-ing in these matches. How many survivors would there be remaining in the queues if the average survivor DCs once every 5 matches? Hint : very few
Before I quit a month or two ago at least 50% of my matches had at least 1 survivor go next, troll, sebo their own team or just ruin the game.
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I am, at this point, allmost totally convinced that anyone who complains about being slugged for the 4k is not an experienced player thinking rationally. Any expierienced player knows that overwhelmingly the biggest reason killers slug for the 4k is hatch. Its. Not. Personal. Its the way the game was designed.
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@Rapid99 said:
Or more specifically, the impact healing buffs have on gens. Healing is a passive slowdown to gens. The more time spent healing = less time spent on gens.
But now that healing has gotten buffed, and the plethora of healing perks that exist, it comes out too… less time spent healing = more time on gens. People can get unhooked and be full health in 2-3 seconds.
Botany knowledge at just a flat 50% increase to healing across the board for free, is egregious. The highest botany ever was before is 33%. It got buffed to 50%, BECAUSE of the efficiency decrease it had on medkits. If it's going to not have the efficiency negative… it shouldn't still be 50%. And the more people figure out just how busted resurgence is, the more you'll start to see that.
So that comes to my main point. Gens haven't gotten any slower to do (and in fact have arguably gotten faster due to less of that passive slowdown from healing), but gen regression perks… have only gotten worse. A LOT worse. And who does this negatively affect? All the killers not named blight and nurse.
Like… there's one viable gen regression perk, that being pain res (which even THAT is a shadow of itself). Everything else needs to be stacked with multiple other gen perks for it to be meaningful.
I fully believe it would be healthier for the game, if there was just a straight up cap put on how many gen regression perks you can have in your loadout. You block off the ability to have things like cob, overcharge, and pop again. BUT, you actually let perks be useful because you don't have to fear creating another 3 gen meta situation. You don't need to make them broken, you just need to make them meaningful.
They've all been butchered, but gens haven't gotten slower to compensate.
More time spent on healing = less time on gens is only really an effective argument in the first place if survivors are actually spending time healing which they arent. Not really. When you can full heal someone right off the hook in the killers face so fast it happens in like 3 seconds, thats not slowing survivors down at all.
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@ratcoffee said:
I got a 10 game win streak in Dota once by spamming pos 5 Crystal Maiden and doing solid support builds. That was pretty cool.
10 games as a win streak for killers in DBD wouldn't even register unless you were doing some other crazy restriction.
Maybe if there's a strategy that lets people get hundreds to thousands of wins in a row without a single loss, it's worth looking at tweaking that strategy to be less oppressive.
S tiers should get nerfed, but not before SWFs get nerfed. Ideally they both would get nerfed at the same time.
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@drag27 said:
Sorry man but you're wasting your breath on the survivor community. They just hate any/all things Pro-Killer, I mean just looik at all the survivor's anti-killer comments.
Funny thing too is around here you get a lot of people who will say things like "im not a survivor main" to gaslight when it is clearly evidant from their demeanor to what they say that they are lying. Im not an idiot yet, constantly i feel like I have to hold peoples hand through the logic of what I say and even then they wont follow. Not can't, wont. People ask for walk throughs for what i say and how i arrive at the conclusions I do even if its trivially easy to follow for themselves without me holding their hand. Its purposeful bad faith behavior, done deliberatly to gaslight, frustrate, and derail. You really cant talk to people like this on these topics because its a total waste of time. You cant get people to hear you out if they have earplugs in.
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@kosaba11 said:
Cause gen rushing isn't a thing. All Survivors can do is work on generators and loop the Killer - that's it. Killers have several methods of sacrificing Survivors, along with various crap to make it easy: Various killer powers that range from BS speed to one shot downs, add-ons that make the match impossible for Survivors, perks that either make it more difficult or straight up impossible to loop the Killer, perks that make it to where you can't open the door or escape, etc. Not to mention, Killers are actively allowed to do toxic crap like tunneling, camping and slugging, and are even encouraged to do so, while Survivors are frequently punished for wanting to do anything in the game. The change that made it to where Survivors spawn together yet has a high chance of spawning the killer right next to the Survivors? Yeah, that was so that Survivors couldn't work on different gens at different points in the map quickly. Yet BHVR refuses to do anything to alleviate the BS that they encourage.
yeah it kinda is. Its not somthing I think is right to blame survivors for since its not like they have much else to do but gen rushing is most certainly a thing.
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@XDgamer018 said:
When is bhvr gonna punish survivors for completing their objective efficiently? (Same thing from the killer side)
Next patch for killers.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952743#Comment_3952743
I'm curious - by what criterion do you say the baseline for balancing is someone like Otz or Hens? How do you make that determination?
it was a hyperbolic remark. The argument from killers is that the game is not balanced when you add survivors who know what they are doing to the mix and it is true. All these super powerful tools they have been giving survivors are all fine and good for the average survivor because no offense the average survivor kinda sucks. But when you put those tools in the hands of good players who know how to play the game and espically when thay are on a full team it really breaks things. Often, playing an S tier or using strategy is the only way for the killer to even stand a chance against these players.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952947#Comment_3952947
Here's the problem with the entire thing.
You say that after the anti-tunnel, all of the killers who "put themselves in an MMR they're not ready for" will be pushed back down to their "proper MMR," right?
Who's going to play against all of those same survivors that they "weren't ready for?" Now that there are much fewer killers in that MMR bracket, who's going to play against the really good survivors?
I'll tell you who: The same exact people who are playing against them now. Matchmaking will do its thing and after a couple of minutes will grab a former high-MMR killer and put them up against a squad they have no chance of beating. That killer will get curb stomped because all of the tactics that they used to use against those squads has been taken away, and they'll get maybe 2 hooks before getting bagged at the gates. That happens often enough, and the killer just leaves the game. I know I wouldn't play a game that regularly matches me in unwinnable games to get curb stomped and mocked.
or worse yet, we see a rise of survivors who take it upon themselves to deliberatly spend the entire match bullying the killer after the killer has allready lost. If they make it stupid easy to just pub stomp the killer then i feel that it is gonna lead to a rise in particularly awful behavior.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949480#Comment_3949480
Problematic strategies can mean anything that's effective. Anything outside chasing one survivor for two hits and hook could be viewed as problematic if it gives the slightest advantage to the killer.
Why are yall still calling it problematic after all this time? You get tunneled because your the weakest player on the team. Its a natural part of the way the game is played. What you want killers to chase the strongest survivors and ignore the weaker ones, wasting more time and giving the survivors even more of a leg up?
Getting tunneled in like over 90% of cases is a skill issue that is being blamed on the killer because heaven forbid people actually take some responsibility. -
@Poochkips said:
It's literally the main/only objective to do in the game for survivors next to unhooking and totems. Having an issue with survivors Gen rushing is like telling them not to play the game. Yes, it sucks to watch 3 gens pop in a singular chase that took you longer than you would have liked to finish, but…..it's….the point of the game….I really don't understand why people get so bitter about it.
This is a legit question. No bitterness, just intrigued.
Survivors and Killers both make some arbitrary rules towards one another and what can constitute as "Toxic behavior". Just curious why this is even one of them.I don't feel it is or should be a complaint about genrushing itself as you correctly point out that clearing the 5 gens to escape is the survivors objective. I think instead it is more a complaint that the tools killers have to deal with it arent very good, and on the perk side of things, that is true. Slowdown perks and gen defense are the weakest they have ever been by far.
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They are objectively survivor sided. Also you're not wrong about the lobby dodging. I've played enough team based competitive games to know exactly what happens when you play somthing off meta. Lobby dodge and toxicity.
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@Nazzzak said:
Probably wasn't very satisfying for those 3 players you left slugged too
Dont go next then. If your team is getting 4 slugged and weren't trying to go next, they are doing something very wrong and it is their own fault. I really don't know what else to tell you. Every single time in these conversations, at least one person brings this kind of weird argument designed to shift blame off of the survivors and onto the killer. I dont get it.
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@Jhei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925878#Comment_3925878
Duty of Care procs on protection hits, not just M1's. Special attacks will trigger protection hits.
Wow BhVR didnt fix that? That makes any killer witha power that does a non damaging hit practically unplayable.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926442#Comment_3926442
But you forgot the part where they buffed the weaker Killers' kits to compensate, only nerfing those Killers that were in fact too strong.
People always miss that part.
they didnt do enough because we ended up with a slug meta as a result to perk and hook nerfs and insanely powerful survivor perks.
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@Breadn111 said:
I've heard that running perks with subtle bugs, like Balanced Landing from a few weeks ago, didn't get you banned. But it got me thinking - at what point is running a bugged perk/add-on actually bannable?
Back around ~2019, Legion had a bug where if you ran both of his mending time add-ons, they'd multiply to an extreme degree and mending would take over a minute. I remember hearing that people got banned for running those add-ons - which is odd to me because someone could've run those add-ons without realizing what was happening, and end up getting banned while completely clueless.
While I don't think we've had a bugged perk/add-on as subtle but extreme as that in recent times, there are more blatant recent examples, like PWYF Nemesis or Forever Entwined Wesker. Did people get banned for running those? Should they be?
People KNEW that flashbang was bugged and exploited it until it got fixed too. Technically if you intentionally abuse a bug you are exploiting and people who do that, reguardless of side should be banned.
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@LockerLurk said:
We spent all last year making Killer a LOT better, buffing Killers that needed it, and helping all Killers have some QoL features. It's the Survivors' turn now, they have been neglected too long.
There is in fact an issue with tunnelling, slugging, and camping and they all need addressing. If they affect certain Killers too much, BHVR can buff them to make them not have to rely on these.
As shown many times, sticks alone or carrots alone do not work to stop the issue - buffing perks didn't stop tunnelling, BBQ did not necessarily remove tunnelling, even together they didn't remove it. The only way to stop it is to treat it not as a bad behavior needing punishment or disincentive, but as a flaw or exploit in gameplay that needs to be patched out. That's what the Devs are doing with the "anti" systems, removing the WORST KINDS of it (3genning with perks/powers, facecamping) but allowing healthy pressure that can LOOK like these (proxy camping, pressuring contested gens). That way we can easily see what is and is not fair, what is and is not tactics, what is and is not griefing. Because just because a tactic is annoying to face does not make it inherently a problem - if that were true flashlights and blinding would not exist at all.
I'm hopeful that a working MMR system plus other alternate wincons being considered normal and viable will do a lot to improve the game for everyone. I think that's what the new Quest system is intended for as well - to give you something besides a win or the Grade system to work for. That way even if you lose, you still earn as many BP for finishing a task as you would for a single round, sometimes even more so. This eliminates the sweat of "I gotta get this sort of emblem" or "I need to pip" or "I have to do this specific thing and win this way with this character and these perks", encouraging a healthier playstyle for the game - a more casual one. The desire to winstreak if you want is still there, Grades are there, all those "I want to win and prove how good I am" are still there and nobody is stopping you from that.
The Casualification of DBD is here, and it's not leaving any time soon. I suggest we all embrace it and give feedback on how to improve it or leave for another game if it really ruins it for us that much, because the Devs don't seem to be stopping. All of these changes are here to reflect that the game is heading a more casual direction so everyone can BREATHE a little easier in these rounds. And good riddance to that old sweaty mindset that made so many people quit because it was that uninviting! It just needs to be tweaked and finalized with player input, and not just the old guard but casuals too, in order to finally, FINALLY make this game feel like it's a welcoming and fun atmosphere for ALL players of ALL skill levels. A working MMR system will do wonders for that, especially in keeping the hardcore sweats and "I wanna improve and be the best" types OUT of lobbies with people who just want to play to see how well they can do, with whomever they like best and whatever perks they want.
They also spent all last year nerfing every single one of the killers most consequential perks into oblivion. Im not really sure taking one step forward and 2 steps back is really progress.
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Dead hard is fine you have to be patient when you know someone has it.
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Why is this devolving into a balance discussion? arent we just supposed to be giving our reasons for having stopped playing killer?
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SWFs are the reason I stop playing. Nothing BhVR will ever do to try and balance the game matters until they acknowledge and start trying to fix the imbalance that SWFs create.
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If anything I would think killer improvements would mean more right now considering we are about to have a huge influx of FNAF fans itching to play springtrap. Im not against survivor improvements so long as they dont make existing problems on the killer side worse. Honestly i think it would be real nice if BhVR suprised everyone and managed to get out the HUD improvement for survivors being able to see each others perks for the FNAF update. It wont happen, but It would be nice for yall if they did.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I think Singularity is pretty universally considered one of the most unfun killers to go against, particularly for solo queue players. Whenever I go against him, teammates never seem to want to disable his cameras and so you’re constantly getting tagged with his pods and then he’s on your ass the entire match. Feels very powerless to do anything against him. SWF teams with coordination seem to have a much easier time neutering his power. Fortunately, almost nobody plays Singularity so I very rarely see him.
Thats not a problem with singularity. EMPs are extremly powerful against him. That is an issue with survivors refusing to use EMPs aggressively and intelligently. Teams that actually use the EMPs like they are supposed to can prevent him from actually using his power allmost the entire game. If you dont use the emps you are gonna get crushed and thats just the way it is.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926078#Comment_3926078
they are not on a generator; they are already a health state down fresh off the hook, and haven’t touched a generator if it procs. What should they be doing instead? Just going down right off the hook? Explain to me why this is a problem so I can understand. 20-30 seconds is not some grand run time.
Basekit BT + 10 seconds of endurance off hook, and now babysitter is at 15% haste for 30 seconds. Those 2 things alone ensure the killer can basically never catch someone right off the hook anymore unless they are a fool and decide to run back into the killer or go next. DS is also used as a get out of jail free card often when the survivors decide to weaponize OTR and bodyblock the killer or play other stupid games. In these situations DS which is supposed to be a defensive perk is also being weaponized because it prevents the killer for actually punishing survivors who do that and then go down as a result. And thats not even talking about how DS just flat out punishes killers indiscriminately for winning chase too quickly against another survivor.
As I have said before, it literally does not matter that all the survivors are not on gens when you are playing against coordinated teams because they can consistently slow the killer down more than enough to make up for it. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926078#Comment_3926078
On Gideon? Against Trapper? Sure.
On Rotten Fields? Against Blight? Nah.
If your argument is "Not against S tiers" then you need to rethink your position because there are all of 2 S tier killers in the game, and the gulf in power between them and even the killers at the top of A tier is immense.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926066#Comment_3926066
That 3 second stun was functionally 2 seconds after animations.
"Good Survivors"
As if good Killers wouldn't either avoid it outright (like me) or eat it tactically.
Can't believe I'm seeing someone argue that 3-second DS was OP in the big 2025.
You do realize that there are situations where the correct decision is to eat it right? And DS, even at 3 seconds gives enough distance to the survivor to often make it to the nearest safe loop and that adds at minimum 10-20 seconds to a chase and sometimes more.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926034#Comment_3926034
I mean, yeah, 3 second DS was pretty garbage, and I will die on the hill that a perk that relies on a Killer's ping to be good is a bad perk.
Thats insane. the power from DS isnt even primarily from the stun. Its that it gives a survivor who lost the chase a get out of jail free card with no strings attached. Good survivors who know how to loop super well can also take that 3 second stun and spiral it into an extra 20-30 seconds in chase.
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minute long chases are not even remotely out of the question. The problem with what you were saying before is that survivors do not need to bring any toolboxes or gen progression perks to slam gens way faster than the killer can build pressure if they dont tunnel or slug.
Survivors are able to literally have 4 health states at this point between DS, OTR, and syringes. If a survivor just has a syringe and doesnt have OTR or DS, do you honestly know how much time that adds to a chase? Not only is that not a once per game thing (its up to 4 times per game) but even if it were, one bad chase can be game destroying for the killer, and syringes, DS, OTR ect are almost guarantees that chases will go well over a minute when survivors know how to loop. The issue with trying to convey that to people is that many survivor players don't know how to loop and path very well and cant take full advantage of these tools otherwise people would see just how disgusting they really are.
Well coordinated survivors have tools so powerful that they can slow any killer but maybe S tiers down to the point where it doesnt matter if all the survivors are slamming gens as fast as they can. They dont need toolboxes or gen progression perks, because they can drag chases out to over a minute long and thats IF they go down, often the killer has call the chase a lost cause and give up and go somewhere else because there are so many god pallets and windows on some maps. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925856#Comment_3925856
I mean, you're cutting out a lot of context there.
Like, I do think it's okay to complain about survivor gen efficiency… when it's a problem, which is not just "survivors are broadly doing gens if the killer isn't making them do something else". It'd be completely different to complain about survivors all spawning spread out, or all/most using toolbox builds— I've done that before in the past myself, because those things are genuinely problematic.
Similarly, we're not talking about killers just being efficient, either. For starters, tunnelling isn't efficient at all to begin with, it's just unbalanced enough to still be a winning play, but even if it were- it's a specific kind of efficient play that involves leveraging basekit problems.
So, in short, I am saying those two things, because the context reveals they're not actually the same thing at all.
Fundimentally, I think it is a silly argument to have. The killers objective is to kill, period. The survivors objective is to escape, period. There is nothing inherently wrong with either side trying to complete their objective as efficiently as they can as dragging your feet increases the chance that you lose. People want to win, and wanting to win is not a bad thing.
What is wrong is when BhVR does repeated nerfs to the only really impactful perks one side has to slow the game down so they can come back and complete their objective, and not touch the objectives on the other side. Notice how in no way am I blaming survivors for rushing gens. Survivor gameplay in dbd is bad there is allmost nothing else to do, so blaming survivors for just rushing the objective is just flat out dumb.
It is entirely fair to talk about how fast survivors complete their objective vs how fast the killer can build pressure and complete theirs though. Dismissing complaints that gens fly too quickly after numerous nerfs to gen slowdown is where I take issue. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925839#Comment_3925839
How so? What makes it a double standard?
you are saying it is not fair to complain about survivor gen efficiency. However, it is apparently OK for survivors to complain about the killer efficiently completing their objective. That is a pretty textbook example of a double standard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925834#Comment_3925834
Again, it's not a double standard.
One is complaints about a genuine balance problem, the other is complaints about the basic gameplay loop. They're not the same thing.
There are ways of complaining about gen speeds that are fair, but just talking about survivors being efficient in a general sense isn't it.
I disagree with you, it is a double standard.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925775#Comment_3925775
You're phrasing it in a very aggressive way but like… yes?
It is reasonable to be annoyed at killers leveraging a basekit problem to get people out ASAP, and it's not super reasonable to be annoyed at survivors for just doing their objective normally.
The better comparison to tunnelling would be survivors bringing toolbox builds, because they're are massively unbalanced and give huge reward for little effort. Complaining about that would be reasonable, complaining about survivors just generally being efficient isn't, really.
They are still not wrong since that is basically what is going on here.
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@Inosennatoki said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XX0DLUQIEFNI/1000000398.jpg
Tittle.
This image is fan created.
The astrologer as a killer from Tarot
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@Massquwatt said:
If it were up to me, the best way to encourage 12 hooking people properly is to remove the hex status from Ruin and turn it into a regular perk. 100% automatic gen regression until a survivor dies, then it deactivates for the rest of the game.
Boom, easy. Now killers have a huge incentive to try and spread their hooks around for as long as possible.
I wouldnt call it a huge incentive. Base regression speed is awful, practically useless even.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BZT7FNX7YVFB/screenshot-from-2025-05-10-13-53-18.png
These tend to be some of the most frustrating challenges to get because you can often die to elements out of your control, especially in SoloQ.
I have played 20 games as Survivor, have yet to make a single bit of progress. I either get tunneled by high-tier Killers until I die; or my teammates leave me behind to make progress on their own milestones, which means I lose out on progress so they can make their own progress.
It also does not help that I am in MMR Hell so I am stuck with teammates that do not do much half the game or take any opportunity to throw everyone under the bus just for themselves whenever the slightest inconvenience occurs. Teammates that get upset? DCs, people give up, and/or I have to deal with someone dropping all the pallets on the map because if you actually try to be helpful they get upset that they have to play the game out still.
It is so common to get in situations like this, and it gets really frustrating, really fast. This just gives me pain.
I would have preferred a "complete Generator(s)" milestone since it actually encourages Survivors to do their objective, better yet, like the healing progress one, you could have made it based on a % of the whole, so even if you 99% a Generator, you make more progress than the Survivor who only did the 1% to finish it. Or, in other words, make it based on the repair progress as opposed to the action of completing the Generator.
There are significantly better things that they could have done for this, and I really dont understand why they went for the one single milestone challenge that was based on a Tome challenge that people already hated getting.
That is a rather mean spirited milestone to have for the rift tbh considering how awful solo Q is.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925572#Comment_3925572
Just chiming in here for a couple of notes.
Fully agree that they have announced nothing on these mechanics, so almost everything is speculative.
Imo, "anti slugging" should target exactly and only 2 main things: what I refer to as "excessive slugging" and "slugging for the 4k".
Slugging for the 4k is pretty self explanatory, and could also be targeted by reworking hatch (again).
Excessive slugging is generally slugging as a strategy (not using hooks at all, deliberately, and not simply because someone is lurking for a save, for example), or slugging to bleed out. Generally this is everyone slugged to bleed out, or possibly one person being humped on the ground for 4 minutes.
And while this is just my opinion and speculation, these are the kinds of questions they asked about in the surveys, so at minimum there is evidence the devs are thinking about these cases also. What that mechanic looks like, I have no idea (nor does anyone else).
Secondly, there is exactly and only one reason I ever see anyone use the phrase "tUnNeLiNg GeNs", and that's because it's a phrase from a content creator who generally complains incessantly about survivors, and people who watch this person just mindlessly repeat these ideas. Even and especially when they have no basis in reality.
All this phrase actually means, is the killer not pressuring survivors, and it's somehow simultaneously the survivors' fault. Period.
In reality, if the killer is afk, survivor gameplay is "do gens and leave", and it's on the killer to give the survivors something other than gens to focus on (this is pressure). That can be a lot of things: killers power, "interactions" (body blocks, saves), healing and recovery, hexes or other perk counterplay, but usually the primary one is chases and hooks (one in time out, one going for save).
Any time I see someone say survivors are "tunneling gens", they're expecting and demanding that survivors do nothing until they're ready for them. Most of these people will hard tunnel and play killer like it's comp, even using "comp" as justification for why this play style is "necessary", while deliberately ignoring that comp survivor is literally "gen rush, pre drop, run to comp corner" with situational "body blocks or saves".
Huh? I said "tunneling gens" without even thinking much about it. I have no idea which content creator you are talking about and I dont really care to know as I dont watch dbd content creators very often and have little loyalty to any of them, though there is one I absolutely despise and I can assure you, he absolutely earned my ire.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925600#Comment_3925600
For months I watched endless thread on endless thread be made where killers talked about why. They’ve got plenty of feedback, but also sure they probably could have handled the survey better. Let’s think logically though, they’re not having an issue getting killers to engage or ready up, they’re having an issue getting survivors to engage, every single time I get on there’s a bonus for survivors to get more people to play it. Sure some killers can be buffed or have some stuff added to their kits to keep up.
As for duty of care and healing now might be a good time to make some anti-healing builds, use some killers with good traversal or that haste perks work well on. Survivors get told to adapt all the time. What’s that only four perk slots? Don’t want to be forced to play a way you don’t like?(not speaking directly to you, I can just feel some things coming) the devs were cooking no haste stacking and people on both sides protested “something something devs shouldn’t limit builds, and there goes fast boi clown” sounds like committing to chases will be the play. So maybe a good anti-loop killer. I would not recommend a stealth killer rn.
You assume the devs really pay much attention to the forums and that is something I am not convinced of.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916343#Comment_3916343
A 60% kill rate is slightly under a 50% win rate. You're confusing kill rates to win rates. If someone had a 25% kill rate, would you say they win 1 out of 4 matches? Of course not. Thats only getting a single kill. In case you're still confused, a 75% kill rate in a match is a 3k.
At 62.5% kill rate, killers would have an even 50% win rate on average. However, they balance around 60%, so it is more like 49%. At the moment survivors have anywhere between and 40% - 48% escape rate on average according to the official stats (48% being SWFs).
Essentially, killers have an intended 49% win rate (60% kill rate), and swfs currently have a 48% escape rate (at high MMR meaning everyone has experience in the game). With 4 survivors being in play, and to keep killers at around a 50% win rate and survivors at a 50% chance to get a 3+ escape match, each survivor would need to have an escape rate of about 38.5% (since there are 4 survivors facing the killer). As an example, if it was 1 v 1, then obviously both sides would want a 50% win rate, but since one side has 4 team members, they each need a reduced escape rate to maintain a 50% balance of both sides.
Long story short, survivors are overperforming IF we wanted to keep killers at a ~50% win rate and survivors at having a ~50% chance of getting a 3+ escape.
Now bear in mind, that's with a 60% kill rate. For killers not at 60%, whether below or above, adjustments should be made.
While this is true, a far stronger argument could be that statistics just dont tell the whole story and you can, very easily, use numbers for fabricate whatever narrative you want. I dont pay attention to the stats BhVR publishes for that reason, things that should not be excluded are so the numbers lack any kind of specifics that would make them useful.
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If anything I feel that the DC penalty should be more harsh in cases where there isnt somthing crazy going on forcing you to quit or be stuck in the match like cheaters.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925510#Comment_3925510
I don’t have you confused. I don’t really see a lot of people complaining about tactful slugging, what I have seen people complain about is everyone being slugged and bled out for no real reason. Sure you can make the argument that everyone sucks if they all four get slugged, but it’s still just not engaging gameplay. Also being slugged at two gens left while the killer searches for however long to hook the other person just to mori the last survivor. That is boring, and I agree with them on those two points. No offense but I’ve had more fun watching paint dry, and this is a video game. That’s not directed at you, just a general statement. As a survivor I would prefer you slug me tbh because my teammates can get me up, and I’m not one step closer to death. Less hooks is less hooks, and more opportunities to come back.
Most people aren’t left on the hook that long, very rarely. In most matches people try to save too fast from what I’ve noticed giving the killer even more pressure, because they mostly return immediately when that happens because they’re still right there. Good survivors wait for the right moment to save and understand why nobody has got them yet, it’s why they don’t complain. others send their self through stages for whatever reason. None the less whether they are hooked or slugged thats a survivor not on a gen. Do you want them to complain about being on a hook for the sake of complaining about every little thing in this game?
Why would there need to be a shorter bleed out timer? I won’t make assumptions on why you would be pro shorter bleed out; but I can tell you that’s something I’m not for and object to. I trust my teammates will get me up when and if they can.
They nerfed anti-tunnel into the ground at one point, and it didn’t change anything on how killers played, or how often people still brought that laughable 1 sec stun ds. All of them are useless if you’re not being tunneled and a time waster on the survivor side if they’re choosing to make plays out of them instead of getting on gens. Not saying it can’t tip scales, but if you play smart you can mitigate most of it. Survivors not on gens is survivors not on gens. They buffed gen defense so much that it changed nothing on how gen pop played; it just made all the playstyles survivors hate the most even more effective. I would not call anti-tunnel survivors most powerful tools(I don’t even run them because I think there’s much better perks that provide more utility), but to each their own. Like someone else said the goal post just continues to move. Slugging, tunneling, camping are all strats that fall apart when you’re facing more competent players, and especially people on comms. The less skilled survivors already can’t loop, dont know how to counter perks, and don’t know how to counter killer powers it would just be creating a bigger gap for new players.
skilled survivors are going to see it happening, not altruism theirselves to death and gen rush; because it’s the perf opportunity to and the only way to beat it. Sorry to say it but most people capitalize the moment they can on both sides. There’s been a ton of matches where I’ve made it incredibly clear I’m just playing around and not trying to gen rush them and the killer does not care I’m trying to give them an easier match and not make them sweat. It’s rare they’ll be like “oh they’re goofing” and ease up too, they mostly capitalize. So like we can live in la la land but that’s the reality, both sides want to win in a PvP game with chaotic match making due to whatever reason. They tried giving killers all the things they complained about it changed nothing, it looks like they’re going to try it the other way around now, and like others have stated we don’t even know what those changes look like.
Speaking of bad faith earlier I said earlier “they intend to make adjustments for any killer affected by the changes” , and you basically said ”devs don’t care about killer experience” . You, yourself engage in bad faith. You point out a ton of contradictions, but don’t realize your own contradictory nature. I’m not trying to be rude, but like it just says something ya know. You’re holding people to a standard you don’t even hold yourself to, and you let that dictate how you respond to others. should people be rude to you? Again; not mad, just holding up a mirror.
The devs literally just did a survey they showed absolutly everyone that they do not care for the the things killers complain about, and instead focused only on why survivors quit. There was 0 attempt made to gather feedback on why killer players play the way they do, or any killer players quit, only survivors. That doesnt exactly tell killer players "we hear you too and we are listening", you know. The devs didnt care to listen to anyone on the new OR perks either. Now, killer players who are good enough to be matched with skilled survivor SWFs get to deal with extremely OP Duty of care, and hyper healing builds where any pressure the killer builds gets erased in seconds.
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Im sorry, I dont really follow, ive never heard of that build but how can it be cheating if they are using an aura reading perk and i'm fairly sure that Midwich has nothing to do with it.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925425#Comment_3925425
I think that depends on what we mean by accessible. A killer shouldn't be released in a state like Kaneki was. He was easy enough to use and strong enough that it took practically no time for players using him to make the gameplay feel pointless for survivors going against him.
My feeling is that the gameplay upon release should present challenges for both the killer and survivors they're going against. The killer player should have to be learning how to use the killer, and survivors should need to learn counterplay to it.
If one side of the match is just dominating every game, something is wrong with the design. And if that scenario becomes so common that it's most of what people are encountering, I would say that likely does have a negative impact on the game's health. Ultimately, release should feel at least somewhat balanced. Kaneki didn't feel that way at all, which is why he got so much backlash.
I do agree though, that the killer power shouldn't be so awkward that it can't even be used, so BHVR has to be trying for a balanced experience upon release. As you mentioned, it has to be accessible, just not trivial.
Fair enough.