Nomade
Nomade
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888137#Comment_3888137
which is why I said we'd make adjustments as necessary, if it does impact kill rates etc negatively
Why is it that killers are the only ones who have rules for how they have to play but when killers talk about gen rushing and other things that are a problem, there is almost never any action taken? Im sure you are aware of the constant conversations around SWFs and how much they break the game, but patch after patch we dont ever see them get weaker, in fact its just the opposite. SWFs get even stronger perks to abuse over time.
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@Kleine_Klompje said:
There was no solo q game where its normal. survs just give up..
Partially because of the new surrender system. While only responsible for some of the increase directly, indirectly, it is telling survivors that quitting is okay, and combined with lax DC penalties and huge amounts of whiny, entitled behavior, you have a lot of the reason people give up.
And before anyone says anything no, its not because of slugging. Not evern remotely close. In well over half the matched I play every day a survivor gives up as soon as I down and hook them, or things dont go their way. I get a lot of DCes as soon as I start chase on someone just because they dont like who I am playing. People need to start getting temp banned for it because this behavior is super unhealthy for the game. I said before all these surrender mechanics went live that this would happen and everyone tried to tell me I was wrong. Well, here we are, and turns out I was right. -
@Chilli_man2400 said:
oh no no no
You see this one youtuber made a video saying SWF got buffed now his echo chamber commenters will say ghoul was unfairly nerfed and survivor gets the new op perk.
killers never get any love they always get nerfed by the evil survivor sided devs even though killers got all these buffs throughout the years and made so many killers better to useIve been saying this was a a SWFs wet dream of a patch well before them, you fool
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914185#Comment_3914185
Hysteria! A content creator is unhappy. Next.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914117#Comment_3914117
If a perk rarely sees use, then that perk is situationally strong. This description fits most survivor perks as them being consistently strong can result in perks that are too strong if 4 bring it (dh, mft, coh,...). These consistently perks can become a problem if not properly balanced.
Situationally strong perks however don't run uni this issue that much, because they are in nature not as strong. While they provide incredible value in specific situations, these situations occur in like 2/10 games. Shoulder the burden is one of these perks, as is borrowed time, this new perk and many more.
In regard to your example with free escapes in end game. Borrowed time does the exact same thing. Do people run it? No. This perk is, imo, a bit stronger, as it has no unhook requirement and can therefore be used more freely throughout the match. I see that as a good thing though. Perk variety is something good, as it changes up the gameplay. A perk needs to be worth using without being too strong.
Is duty of care worth using? I think so yes. Is it too strong? Remains to be seen. If yes, it needs to be adjusted.
Last but not least: what skill and talent are you talking about in end game scenarios? Bodyblocking is showing talent now? It's as much skill, imo, as a killer hitting a survivor off hook (back with no basekit bt) and hooking them again immediately.
Oh you are gonna care when your queue times reach 30 minutes because no one wants to play killer because of how miserable it will be. Im probably done and that is a sentiment I have seen shared by others as well.
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the entire patch is just a SWFs wet dream come true. It is just overwhelmingly SWF and survivor sided. Almost every single aspect of it.
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@Mandy said:
I'm going to step in on this one right away - a killers power has nothing to do with sales first of all, two completely separate departments that work independent of each other!
The feedback about The Ghoul on PTB was incredibly mixed, with some saying buffs were needed and some saying nerfs were needed, in fact more were saying "D tier killler" than there were saying that he was a strong killer. So whilst the feedback is useful to us, its not set in stone at how players would react once the Chapter hit live.
Bugfix Patch 2 is the earliest one to get any changes into after content has gone live, the first patch is normally addressing things found in the PTB or internal testing. It's why there's no changes in this PTB to The Ghoul, as the PTB is based on the current Live game.
I mean, The Ghoul probably isnt as strong as survivors are making him out to be.
Unless there is a super blatant, obvious issue, 2 weeks isnt enough time to access if a killer is problematic or if it is just a visceral reaction from players who dont know how to play against that killer. Im not against nerfing the ghoul, even now, but I still believe this is a huge over reaction.
So I would like to suggest that any changes are based on a light touch approach for now while his power is monitored more over time and small adjustments can be made until he is in a place you guys and the community are happy with. -
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913326#Comment_3913326
Every single time I pick up killer I feel like I can completely shoot fish in a barrel if I want to, and I’m not running anything meta or good addons or even addons at all. The skill expectation gap is insane between the two sides at the starting level.
Thats anecdotal at best, and you know that. There are killers at all kinds of different skill levels at all different MMRs. Your expierience and mine could be similar or they could be totally different. Killer power levels are all over the place too. When you say you have an easy time as killer are you playing blight or nurse, or are you playing trapper or pig?
Good killer players win a lot and will eventually start playing against survivors who win a lot too, and the difference in power between a bad survivor bringing really powerful perks and a good survivor bringing powerful perks is night and day.
The fundimental issue at hand is the design direction BHVR is choosing to go with survivor perk design. Bad and new survivor players are so bad that they are basically uncarryable and BHVR is trying to design increasingly more and more powerful perks for survivor to help carry them to wins they dont deserve. This is really problematic because once you put those perks in the hands of good survivors who know how to abuse them, they become incredibly oppressively to play against. This is obviously unhealthy and I have no idea how in the world people fail to see it. -
@Nazzzak said:
They're okay. Only one worth running on it's own (Duty of Care) while the other two are best as part of a build.
So, basically what you are saying is all 3 are strong. Just that only one of them is so strong that even the people in solo queue can use it as a crutch. I guess that makes it okay though! It's not like SWFs exist at all, and wont abuse all 3 of these perks.
Please, PLEASE do not try to downplay it, downplaying how powerful and abusable these perks are outside of solo queue is allmost as bad and just as useless as outright lying. -
Yes, they are OBJECTIVLY more a nerf to killer than survivor. There are A LOT of killers that have a small haste buff as an addon or part of their power who can now not use a lot of the perks in the game.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912942#Comment_3912942
JuSt DoNt TuNnEl ThErE YoU CoUnTeReD ThE PeRk
This entire patch is just a disgusting, unwarranted buff to the one group of people needing a nerf most of all. SWFs. LIteally every single god damned one of these perks are abuseable to an extreme, game breaking degree by SWFs.
I really try to give the devs the benefit of the doubt and at least TRY to be nice to them but when they do stuff like this, it really makes me mad and makes it a huge struggle for me to not just explode on these forums at them. It's almost like they look at what people are saying and decide "Lets do the opposite". -
One blatantly overpowered perk that absolutely wont be abused in SWFs at all and guts any killer that does non damaging hits.
Another perk that punishes the killer for not tunneling.
What could go wrong? -
Balanced landing is bugged
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Well The ghoul got nerfed.
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@SomeGuy1246 said:
fr i have even seen edgers just ask-maxxing a question get mass downvoted.
i swear someone could state "did u know from da skibidi other side is played by a human be-maxxing with emotions fw u ?" and be minus to oblivion.
i don't expect an answer btw.
I think he's trying to speak to us.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910319#Comment_3910319
Dev team need to read this post I think, and then contextualize it within this user's post history.
Player who has a history of being doom-and-gloom that any change will be anti-killer, and for advocating for killer players to the point of being banned for [to public speculation] accidentally taking it too far with encouraging unintended gameplay, seen here citing the so-called "anti-slug part 1" as proof that the devs intend for slugging to stay as a mechanic. What does that mean for your design decisions?
They seem to be behaving now. Ive been far more pissy than they have in my more recent posts, sometimes admittedly undeservedly so.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910296#Comment_3910296
No, the reason Killers tunnel is because nothing less than a 4k is good enough for them, and tunneling is the easiest way to get it. It's like a drug that Killers are addicted to, and BHVR is once again forced to step in for an intervention.
What's wrong with wanting the 4k?????? Killers are allowed to want that, it's what the game encourages the killer to do. The killer is supposed to kill and you are NOT entitled to receive hatch, or be let go. You literally just proved my point. Survivors find a way to complain and whine about absolutely everything the killer does. It literally does not matter how the killer plays or what perks they bring. They could get 12 hooks in a game and a huge number of you people would still say "the killer tunneled me". It's time to face reality, you dont like losing and anything the killer does that actually beats you, you hate. Maybe, just maybe, the problem is not with what the killer does. Maybe the problem is this awful attitude you and other survivors have.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908350#Comment_3908350
Going in circles around a pallet is their only defense. Killers get mad if survivors loop. They get mad if the hold W. What exactly do you want them to do?
The main complaint with holding W isn't even that your holding W. Its that survivors just pre drop every pallet which is totally devoid of skill. Because maps have large numbers of pallets and god pallets, survivors allmost never have to worry about exhausting resources either.
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Every single thing the killer does leads to survivors crying. Dont camp. Dont tunnel, Dont slug, Dont chase, Dont use this perk, Dont use that perk, Dont use your power, dont mori me, dont hook me. ENOUGH!
Why should anyone take the survivor playerbase seriously at this point? This behavior of complaining about literally everything the other side does is a joke, and all of you should be ashamed.
The question of why tunneling is being done now more than ever has been asked countless times and answered. This entire thread is the result of people failing to accept the reality that tunneling is happening more and more frequently as a result of the incessant survivor whining about literally everything else the killer does and the devs nerfing everything from hook states to slowdown and regression. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909690#Comment_3909690
Real aggressive, man, it's pretty unpleasant.
10% would make it one of the worst gen regression perks in the game. It would still be better than call of brine because being worse than that would be allmost impossible, but considering how awful hexes are in general right now…. Yikes. Pentimento must be ran with other hex perks and that combined with how weak hexes are makes your take of 10% particularly awful.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909662#Comment_3909662
We don't actually know how this scales, so it's premature to say that it's dead in the water.
30% is a nuts number, by the way, that's almost the largest amount of % slowdown you can get from a single perk. You don't need the 30% for it to be worth running, it being 30% is just what makes it incredibly strong.
Personally, I would say it starting at or above 10% would maintain it being useful. Any higher than that for the first stack and the perk's just still flat out good.
Deleted.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909647#Comment_3909647
Well, the obvious question there is, why are you assuming you'll need to get 5 stacks of Pentimento?
thats the way they made it sound. You will need 5 stacks to get the full effect and even at 30% it isnt nuts. The only reason it is used is that every other viable option was nerfed into the dirt and at least this particular hex can be kept up for most of a match.
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It is actually just impossible to run a solid hex build with the pentimento assassination. Not only was pentimento just one of the last regression perks left standing after over a year of repeated nerfs that have destroyed nearly every other option, but hexes are so incredibly bad most of the time too. This change is incredibly unfair and really unnecessary.
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@jesterkind said:
I think it's premature to claim Pentimento's dead in the water before we've even seen what its new numbers are. There are definitely numbers it could have that'd make it worth running, especially since you're inherently pairing it with other hexes.
Overall, the state of killer perk variety is doing pretty well, and a lot of tools that get nerfed are still completely worth bringing if you're not expecting them to be big central cornerstones of your build. Pain Res, Grim Embrace, and DMS may be those and can stand on that pedestal, but perks like Deadlock, Eruption, Surge, Gift of Pain, and a couple more complement basekit pressure and slowdown perfectly fine.
That's obviously just slowdown, too, plenty of viable non-slowdown perks exist. Outside the scope of this change, but worth remembering.
Not to say nothing could improve, of course, just that I think the current state of things is being overblown here.
It's dead, Jim. You arent ever getting 5 stacks of pentimento. Never. It's one of the hardest things you can try to do as killer.
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@HeroLives said:
does the haste stacking count for both sides or just one?
It said haste and hindered effects no longer stack. It didn't say no longer stacks for survivor or no longer stacks for killer. That means these effects no longer stack period, for both sides. This does hurt some killers too but overall I feel it is a rather healthy change that will lead to some perks being a lot easier to balance.
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Just going to say I 110% agree.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I just can't see him being a really good killer. More like mid tier. He's quite simplistic.
I agree with this, he is objectively worse than Wesker who is himself B tier.
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It was a completely unnecessary nerf. Xeno if anything was already on the weaker side because of the chest spawn issue and double flame turrets.
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If I were the devs I wouldn't waste my time. Switch 2 is goinna bomb hard. 90 dollar games. Basically no one should buy the switch 2 ever, especially when we have handheld PCs that do more for so, so much less.
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Hard not to have PTSD from one of the most broken perks to ever be released in the games history
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@Blueberry said:
Whenever a Survivors takes damage, Forever Entwined gains +1 Token, up to a maximum of 6/7/8 Tokens:
- Increases the Action speeds for Dropping, Hooking, and Picking up a Survivor by a stack-able +4 % per Token, up to a maximum of 24/28/32 %.
How do y'all feel about this perk?
This just looks so bad to me and I can't think of any scenario someone would want this. Like why does it even have a requirement in the first place for a bad effect? You could just save way, way more time running many other perks.
I think it needs some additional effects if anyone has ideas. For just those effects it currently has the numbers would have to be made on the verge of silly to be relevant.
Picking up a survivor takes 3 seconds and hooking a survivor takes 1.5 seconds.
0 tokens = no change
1 token = .12 seconds saved on the pickup and .06 seconds on the hook = .18 seconds in total
2 tokens .36 seconds in total
3 tokens .54 seconds in total
4 tokens .72 seconds in total
5 tokens .9 seconds in total
6 tokens = 1.08 seconds in total
7 tokens = 1.26 seconds in total
8 tokens = 1.44 seconds in total
As you can see the time savings from this perk are hardly anything so in my opinion its not even close to good enough. -
@jamally093 said:
So if a single gen goes off it means that Tunneling is valid and I don't mean the strategic hit the person who just got off hook so they need to mend no I mean hard core ignore everyone but him Tunneling. I was facing a doctor a relatively good killer in my eyes a good anti-loop power and some nice locating but boom one gen went off and suddenly I'm being tunneled out. I would get if maybe two or three gens went off at the same time since it sucks but one gen plus dude has Pain Res. I thought tunneling was only for the modifiers to ruin everyone's day?
I am very confused. There are too many variables that take place in a match to make any specific judgements. If you are the weakest survivor on a team the killer is going to try to target you if you make it easy for them to do so. Being tunneled out of the game doesnt have to be nor is it always some malicious action. There are definitely ways to encourage the killer to tunnel you but the killer doesnt need any reason to tunnel. They can do what they want just like you can do what you want.
if your team is good and being super efficient on gens, often the killer doesnt have a choice but to try and tunnel someone out. Also it is a bit misleading to frame it as "only 1 gen was popped and im allready being tunneled". For all we know those other gens had significant progress and the killer could have been almost down to 2 gens left. -
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441531/confused-about-this-abandon-system
Were the other player(s) bots? As this is the only time it should kick in if someone else is not in dying state.
If you dont mind, I would like to ask you, why was the surrender mechanic made so easy to activate? If the intent was to help get survivors in the next match a little quicker in extreme cases of slugging then isnt just requiring survivors to be in the dying state a bit too much? In extreme cases of slugging I think giving the survivors a way out of the match was a good idea, but my concern with it just requiring survivors to be in the dying state that it will have a significant amount of collateral damage and maybe damage the integrity of the game. Is the dev team planning on monitoring how players interact with it, and tweaking it in areas that are being abused?
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Why does nowhere to hide need a nerf? Nowhere to hide was used more when building around gen kicking was more reasonable. Even then though it wasn't OP.
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Yikes. I knew the surrender system was overly generous but that is… just wow.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903207#Comment_3903207
Yikes.
They're constantly updating things for killers, entire kits, maps, even perks.
The most recent perk update was thrill back in November, where it went from "meh", to giga broken, then they tuned it back to "really good".
The only change to weave attunement was a minor change to the radius and survivors see the item aura. It's still effectively 4 perks in one, and, for the record, it took them 5 months to even make that one minor change.
Shoulder the burden, on the other hand, didn't make it out of the ptb before being nerfed. They doubled the exposed timer, because entity forbid that the killer doesn't get a free instadown when the survivor uses the perk they brought.
Yikes.
New perk. Also the shoulder the burden we have in game NOW is unhealthy and has remained untouched for over half a year. -
Trapper has a number of big issues that need to be addressed for any rework to be sucessful. The biggest 2 problems he has are thus:
1: His traps are difficult to hide. After the graphics got updated a while ago, many maps had dense foliage thinned or removed entirely. Maps since then dont have good hiding spots for his traps either.
2: He is way too slow. He moves slower than most killers and is very weak in chase as a result. Additionally he must spend time to set up his traps and re arm them every time a survivor messes with them.
Trappers entire kit is stuck in the past. Tweaking numbers isnt going to be enough, he needs something more than that. Either that or a full power rework where he gets a totally new power. -
For survivors, calculating MMR based off of escapes is just a bad way to do it because it rewards cowardly play rather than actually helping your team. Often the most skilled survivor on a team gets sacrificed because they are the ones getting chased or running around doing riskier unhooks and trying to make plays.
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@Shaped said:
@Mushwin Remember when you had the most downvotes first time they introduced this? It was hilarious ngl.
It's still funny when people get randomly downvoted for anything they say even non dbd related. It's memey and has comedic value that this forum lacks, not to be taken seriously.
I have to say @danielmaster87 seems to be the current champion tho, @Mushwin is dethroned.
I dont get why people have an issue with @danielmaster87's posts. A lot of what he says is 100% correct. Not everything but a lot of it.
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I dont think this is going to get better until BHVR starts dishing out heavier punishments for people giving up the second somthing doesnt go their way. When people quit a match it sucks for the killer, and it sucks for the survivors too. Its like playing a board game with a child who decides to flip the board when something doesn't go their way.
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They should go
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@danielmaster87 said:
I don't think so. As survivor, it's balanced, but then the matchmaking just gives you a killer who's actually trying, and teammates who clearly aren't. If it weren't for that, survivors would be dominating every single match. Their best meta perks ever are still meta after like 8 years: DS, Dead Hard, Prove Thyself, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, OTR a bit later. Why? Because they're strong. You can say they're not strong, but I think their results speak for themselves, especially in swf. People say the maps have gotten weaker; I don't see it. If you put on Windows or Zanshin, you can see how closely spaced all the pallet and window loops are. I mean, you get the killer to break 1 pallet while he's chasing you, that's already a bad, potentially game-losing chase for him. Your teammates and you just need to be efficient, and even then, if you're efficient in looping OR on gens, just being good at either one will do. Sometimes it feels like perks make a big difference, like you could have really used Unbreakable against a slugger, or DS against a tunneler. But if you see those scenarios so often, or you're afraid of those strategies, just bring those perks, regardless of if you get to use them in your other matches. Not every build is gonna work for every opponent. Just waste as much of the killer's time as possible, and you've done your part for the team. If your team still loses, such is the nature of the role. You've got to be good as an individual player AND as a team, otherwise why should the killer who's playing really well lose?
As killer, there's almost no good slowdown anymore, so you either have to get a team who will allow you enough time to use those perks, or just be downing people every 20-30 seconds. None of that is in your control. When you tunnel or slug, it goes a little bit towards you having some actual control. But in general I'm just seeing really efficient killer play vs inefficient survivors, and they're still having close matches, because the balance game plan has been to make the uncarryable survivors carryable. So when you do go against good survivors, especially swf, it's like wow, how do you even get more than a draw against them, ever? Literally being their plaything for 5 or 10 minutes, as they're doing stupid stuff in your face at no cost to gen efficiency. They can decide at any moment to just focus gens, and then they're done and the survivors are all out. I know because I've done it in solo in losing matches, like wow, we could have had 2 people jump on gens at any time and finished these last 2-3 gens. 1 survivor knows how to loop, you could lose the whole game, because if their teammates are on gens, that basically equates to gen efficiency.
I would not be asking for comeback mechanics or "better" balancing to make the killer weak enough for us to win. I just want good teammates so we can take advantage of this broken game state and win. If killer's always going to be a sweat fest, at least let us experience the other side of that coin when we switch to survivor. Or if survivor's always going to be difficult, at least give a reason for it, as in making the killer strong. If neither side is happy with their roles, then how is the game balanced?
I've never had less interest in playing the game. I spend more time on here talking about it, than playing it. And even then, that's dropped in frequency. So I think we've got a long way to go for it to be balanced. Bring an outsider and show them this game, and they'd never claim it was balanced.
Killers haven't gotten a single good killer perk in such a long time and even when we do they are nerfed allmost instantly. Seriously, the last actually good killer perk was Weave Attunement and that was 9 months ago. How long did it take for that to get nerfed? A couple of weeks or less? Meanwhile Shoulder the Burden has been out for what, 6+ months and still has not been nerfed despite even some survivor mains saying its bad for the game? There is a clear difference between how the devs treat killer players and how they treat survivor players and not only is it not fair but it is kind of sickening how so many people just turn a blind eye to it.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902600#Comment_3902600
So, I know what you were trying to do, but unfortunately your first paragraph does nothing to give evidence to the rest of your post.
[Being a poor sport, losing with humility, dbd having a DC problem, and especially on survivor side, but some killers too]
The above gives evidence to a forum downvote number and people's responses?
Anyway, I liked this part. 'A lot of people who play this game think they are entitled to act however they want, say whatever they want, and be free of consequence.' You blanket 'a lot of people' with judgement and knowing how they think. And thus, you are entitled to act however you want, say whatever you want also. Im just not going to try to emotionally and morally manipulate you with it.
You are asking for evidence that a large section of the playerbase cant handle losing? Unless you literally dont play the game you already have all the evidence you need. If you honestly disagree with that you are either trolling, gaslighting or a total fool. There are even youtubers who showcase toxic players behaving badly when they lose or something doesnt go their way. How you can sit there and demand that I show evidence to even acknowledge it is just incredible. Your like a drunk saying there is no problem with drinking. Insane.
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@bazarama said:
Watched my son play and he got a 4K. He's pretty good at survivor and very good with Huntress.
After the match he got told to end himself and hope he gets cancer.
What is going on inside your tiny mind that thinks that's acceptable?
Go to a parent who's recently buried a child and laugh.
Go to a children's cancer ward and point and laugh.
Devs need to take a much stronger stance on these types of comments including up to a permanent ban on their ip address for frequent use of this type of comment.
Thankfully my son laughed it off but what If he didn't?.
Get a grip and stop getting upset over a video game.
Sad, pathetic and potentially harmful.
A LOT of people are poor sports and cant handle losing with even an ounce of humility. Thats why the game has such a problem with DCing especially on the survivor side though some killer players can be the same way as well.
This is evidenced by the fact you have so many downvotes despite asking a simple question and rightfully asking the devs to do something to help curb the animosity within the playerbase. It is, by all counts, a very reasonable request and just look at the reaction you have gotten. A lot of people who play this game think they are entitled to act however they want, say whatever they want, and be free of consequence. -
@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901698#Comment_3901698
Also as someone who mostly plays survivor i can tell you that majority of survivors don't care about winning they just a fair match with some decent chases.
then why do they bring so many second chance perks?
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if there are 2 survivors left they should not be able to surrender when slugged unless the killer keeps them both on the ground for some time. Because of hatch, killers who want to go for the 4k MUST slug the last 2 players and you should not be able to surrender while being carried to a hook either.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894693#Comment_3894693
That's legit how people think. They cite Bloodlust and Entity Blocker as survivor nerfs.
the fact that your being donvoted just proves your point.
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this thread is gonna get removed 100% but I agree. The downvoters are obvious trolls. If the changes go through Xeno will become one of the worst killers in the game and be almost completely unplayable.
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Incredibly weak perks. The killer is fun but unfortunately his power is very clunky and seems to be quite weak in general.
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Saying 5 gens doesnt really mean anything though. How much progress are on the gens? Even if the survivors have 0 completed they could have a bunch nearing completion so it is a bit deceptive and it bothers me when people say "5 gens" as though the survivors have no progress towards their objective.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891502#Comment_3891502
"At 5 gens" is such a wonderful cop-out in my opinion.
It can mean anything between 7 gens at 0% and 7 gens at 99%. The number can also change at any given moment after about a minute or two into the trial. And it may even change by more than 1 within a short period.
Now imagine if someone kept pestering survivors not to do gens "at 0 hooks", they'd just be laughed at.
A lot of the time even when the counter says you are at 5 gens by the time you get your first down, really you are down to 2 or 3 because 2 or 3 are really close to finishing.