Nomade
Nomade
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Im sick of the devs removing player agency. Matches are dynamic and killers have to react to things as the match progresses. With all these anti systems they are basically saying "you can only play the game this specific way" and that is super freakin unfair when survivors get to play however they want. I also resent the fact that the devs will allmost certainly try to force killers to hook again while also not doing anything to fix the things that got us here in the first place. Its like the devs only listen to one side, or the people who cry the loudest. This is going to lead to a deeply unhealthy game state where killer is absolutely miserable to play, just you watch.
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Even if they reverted all the nerfs thats not even gonna fix all the problems because survivors have gotten so many second chances, STB, and BS like uncounterable flashbangs that it is still going to be super unfun to play.
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So far the slug change they actually announced i think is rather positive as it saves everyone time. I am very nervous though, if they intend to gut the current meta and force killers to hook again, im probably gonna quit. Killer was way to stressful in the hook meta with all the nerfs that have happened and all the second chances survivors get. It's super unfun to deal with all of that plus a litany of other things. If im not able to actually have any fun then why I am I even playing? I'l be sad because of the hours I have and the money I spent but if the devs want to push the game back to a state that is stressful and unfun to play then il have to walk away.
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@jesterkind said:
What killer nerfs are you referring to?
You were told once already and rejected it then I see no reason to answer that for you now.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883032#Comment_3883032
I feel I've made it quite clear why slugging's happening in my posts here, I've brought it up a few times.
It seems to me that you and I disagree on why slugging is happening, which really isn't the same thing as one of us not looking to understand it.
You have made several posts attempting to defend positions that are indefensible.
Additionally there are a plethora of reasons slugging is happening. The list that was given by @Reinami is not an opinion. It is a fact. These things do not exist as figments of the imagination and are in fact things killers have to deal with. You and others try to argue "it's not thaaaaaaat bad" and i'm sorry but you are wrong. It IS in fact that bad and all of those things together are the reason slugging will continue to become more popular.
Is slugging perfect? No. Do i think survivors could bleed out faster? Yeah, for sure. Do I think the instances where the killer is forced to keep multiple survivors on ground for minutes while they wait for the hooked survivor to hit the second stage is good? Hell no (when all survivors are either hooked or slugged the killer should be able to mori all the slugged survivors so everyone can move on to the next match). The general hatred for slugging is stupid though. It is a chase centric playstyle, with a far more natural focus on slowdown. The slowdown comes from knockout rather than forced gen regression perks.There is nothing at all wrong with the playstyle. The mechanics surrounding it could be improved but the game has been repeatedly pushed in this direction for long enough now, that one can say with near certainty that this is an intentional decision from the developers. When I play Killer I am DEFINITLY haveing more fun than before. Games are so much less stressful and I can focus more on the part of the game that is the most fun, the chases.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882973#Comment_3882973
You should read my other post where i list out everything pretty clearly. But no need to be so hostile. It is true that pain res is a highly picked perk, but we are currently in the middle of a meta shift.
For example, if slugging is such a huge problem and so prevalent then why isn't knockout a highly used perk? Because the meta shift has fully happened yet, but it is happening currently and immanent.
You have been a saint here in this thread trying to explain to people. Unfortunatly you can not show the blind how to see. As I said in the first post of this thread, there are many, many good sources of information on this subject but some people are not looking to understand why Slugging is happening more, nor are they willing to accept the reasons stated why it is happening. They are just looking to complain purely to complain. You can not reason with them. As you have well seen some people are just unwilling to listen even if spoon fed all the answers. It is a waste of time. I gave up in this thread for that reason. The problem is, time and time again the devs see fit to give ear to these types of people. Mindless complaining should not be rewarded.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882748#Comment_3882748
The Endurance you get from the basekit BT and from OTR can be weaponised via bodyblocking, that's it. The rest are entirely avoidable by just ignoring the survivor on the hook/who just got unhooked.
It is ENTIRELY inappropriate to claim that OTR is a shield to cower behind but then use it as a sword. Endurance as a mechanic is meant to give survivors a chance to get away. It is a defensive tool. The fact it is being used offensively shows that it is incredibly problematic and in need of a rework. Additionally, the duration of endurance you get from OTR makes it no longer just a defensive tool. It is a guarantee of escape. It removes all risk, rewarding the survivor for being caught and then makes it incredibly easy to be used offensivly because it lasts for so long. It is completely unacceptable in its design.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882725#Comment_3882725
Basekit BT is the one thing you do actually have to deal with, I'd agree with that. Stuff like the anti face camp, the extra ten seconds on hooks, various other anti-tunnel/anti-camp perks like DS and Shoulder The Burden and such, those are the things you don't have to deal with unless you're actively tunnelling/camping.
It's at best a minor annoyance, though, it's hardly "hooks aren't worth it anymore" levels of overbearing.
You are completely wrong. I have seen instances every day where these perks are being abused. I can absolutly assure you they are not "anti tunnel" perks. They are Anti pressure perks. They punish killers unilaterally reguardless of what they do. This is espically egregious with perks like DS and OTR.
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I am just really confusted.
Survivors constantly asking for one of their most powerful counters for a meta to be base kit
But then those some people turn around and complain about the lack of good perk options.
NO you cant have basekit unbreakable. If you want it, bring the blasted perk. You have tools. USE THEM!!!
And for the record, NO! I am not blaming survivors. I have made suggestions repeatedly on how the situation could be made less painful for survivor and benefit both sides. Will the devs listen? Who knows. One thing I do know though is that the state of hooking and how unfun and stressful killer has become has been discusssed to death. Everything you could ever want to know about the way killers feel about it and why slugging is becoming more common is out there. People who are still beating on about this just dont care at this point. It's just mindless complaining without any intention to come to an understanding WHY things are the way they are.
If the dozens of threads and videos talking about it still arent enough to get through to the people who still choose to complain then its not even worth trying to reiterate what has allready been said. It is a waste of time. -
@gregweb_ said:
I’m not sure what changed recently, but almost every game I load in to, the killer is slugging from the start. Usually with the perk knockout. This play style is painfully boring with little to no options for the survivors. So we sit there and wait to bleed out.
There are a lot of really good videos made by people nailing exactly why it is happening I suggest you watch them. TO give you a basic idea going in, Hooking survivor is horrible now after being nerfed over and over and over and over. It activates the strongest survivor perks in the game, you have to deal with flashbang inside of your body BS, bodyblocking, flashlight saves plus all the wasted time walking people to a hook.
With slugging its a lot more fun for the killer. Its just chase after chase after chase which is the most fun part of the game. Slugging makes killer actually feel fun to play again.
So basically balance issues and fun issues.
Also @NarkoTri1er Your post is in violation of the forum rules. I suggest editing it before a mod sees it.. Additionally, you are quite incorrect. Knockout is run as a means of slowdown because hook slowdown kills itself and sucks complete dog water, 8 gen kick limit STILL being a thing despite SM being dead and actually just gen regression perks in general being laughably weak after being nerfed over and over and over for the past year at least. -
A lot of the OPs complaints are, frankly, rediculous. Not only that but the entire way they framed their post is just tribalistic and whiny.
Next time do away with the tribalism. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877491#Comment_3877491
Yet limiting how people play as well.
We're already at a 60% killrate for killers as per the developers, yet you want to restrict SWF to playing with other perks. SWF is not comp DBD and doesn't need the restrictions that comp DBD needs.
Again, do you consider 2 man SWF strong? Does 2 man SWF need to be addressed or are we primarily focusing on 4 man stacks?
That's Behavior's fault for putting in terrible tutorials and the onnus of getting better in a game typically requires the person to either
a): spectate players
b): go on YouTube to figure out tips and strategies
or c): taking time to read perk descriptions and figured out optimal builds
Look at any popular multiplayer game and you'll see that people typically need outside sources to git gud at a game. Dead By Daylight is no exception to this rule and if you want to improve as survivor or killer, you typically need to watch people who know what they're doing to get a better idea of how to "win".
It is not even remotely fair to force the rest of the playerbase to deal with poor balance and constant over buffing and over nerfing of perks and killer powers. Many games have special game balance rules they apply if you work as a premade. Why couldnt it work in DBD too?
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Winning can mean different things to different people and winning does not allways mean the games definition of winning. You get to decide what your objective is. Is it to get 3 or 4 kills, or escape, or is it somthing else? Maybe you make some whacky build that does a cool thing and pulling off that cool thing is your only real objective. If you lose by the games definition do you still feel like you have lost? You achieved your objective.
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I would super love it if we could get some new voice lines for Freddy done by Robert Englund. It has been asked for, for a very, very long time. Please let this be the year where we finally get this Bhvr!
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@Aceislife said:
If you're that worried about SWFs just play Blight… Youll get easy 4ks with not a lot of effort.
Against virtually any killer except for nurse or blight, if players are well matched in skill, a SWF will nearly allways if not absolutly always hold an advantage. This is because of voice comms and perk stacking together. This is why despite SWFs only truely breaking the game balance at the higher levels of play, you see average players complain about it. The advantage provided by voice comms is not fair and the devs do not take it into account because if they did they would be forced to make a choice between banning it entirely or balancing around it and then having to go back and massively overhaul the games balance in a dramatic way.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876304#Comment_3876304
killers get balanced around the best players using them but survivors get balanced around emotional entitlement such as "Killer is unfun vs" , "The killer is boring ", "The killer is too strong for bad players". SWF isn't OP on average. it is that killer are too weak on average because they're constantly balanced around entitlement and worse players. The killer perk also have that problem.
Killers do complain and eventually get survivor perks nerfed but the nerfs are often extremely slow if they happen. It does happen on both sides but I will agree that it does happen a whole lot more with survivors complaining about killers than the other way around and killer nerfs come down far faster a significant amount of the time.
Just gonna pull a random example. Vecna was nerfed within weeks of his release, but MFT took 6 months or more to be nerfed. BU FTP lasted even longer than that. It can be very frustrating because it feels as though there is a double standard. Thats not completely true but that doesn't stop it from feeling really really bad.
Most attempts to have a discussion about this kind of stuff results in people gaslighting and a bunch of stupid, pointless fighting. I doubt this will be any different, but prove me wrong. -
I suggest the mods lock this thread. Very few people are trying to have intelligent discussion. It has devolved into people picking fights and completly unhelpful and brain rot comments. This thead has been almost completely hijacked by bad actors at this point.
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First I want to point out that it isnt really completely fair to lump all SWFs in the same group together. Most SWFs are either just a group of friends messing around or some people who hooked up in a discord to play games together and have personal skill levels that are all over the place.
Not all SWFs are playing the game at a super high level. However the problems with regards to game balance start at the top with these super skilled SWF groups. These are the groups of players that killers are usually talking about when they say things like "SWFs are OP" and similar remarks. Your average SWF isnt really leveraging every single advantage they have to the absolute maximum, nor are they highly skilled players in their own right typically. Even in cases where there is problematic and unbalanced stacking of very OP perks, because the players themselves arent playing perfectly, those tools arent nearly as opressive. Thats not to say that some situations where perk stacking in particular cant lead to situations that feel crappy, it absolutely can. It just means that if you are playing well, you still have a shot at winning.
As I said in another SWF thread, high end SWFs break the game balance completely in a way that is difficult to find solutions for that are both clean and reasonable. I don't think anyone who is looking at this issue with SWFs and being reasonable really wants to ruin the game for SWFs. At the same time something has got to give. Things can not continue on this way. (If I were on the dev team and were reading this I might actually cry tears of joy. These issues with SWFs cant be easy for them to work around either).One thing I did not mention in my previous post in the other thread is that SWFs do get an advantage if they are in comms. The power of this advantage is significant but difficult to really quantify beyond using vague estimations like "significant". Still, this should be taken into account.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
I don't know why more people haven't put it together that SWF existing the way it does without any nerfs is the main reason why solo queue is so bad. Back when the game was more survivor-sided people literally just wouldn't play killer and the queues were 10 - 15 minutes to play survivor easy. The devs had to start buffing killers and nerfing survivor to bring SWF and killer closer together or the game was straight up going to die. The best thing to do would have been to do targeted nerfs at SWF to equalize being able to stack perks and communication but everyone cried that was "punishing people for playing with their friends" so now solo queue just gets to eat it and be cannon fodder
People do talk about it. There have even been videos made about this very subject. The big problem though is that if you start to even suggest nerfing SWF you get loads of people who will come out and just jump on you and make you out to be this horrible, evil villain. They will make non arguments like "So I have to be nerfed because I want to play with my friends" when literally the exact same argument can be made for everyone else. That flip argument being "So we have to suffer with impossible to balance game design and constant over buffing and over nerfing of perks because you want SWFs to remain unnerfed.
You are completly correect in saying that SWF is a real issue for the game, and it is somthing that really does need a lot more discussion. SWF can either be on a reasonable power level which is most SWFs if we are being honest (and I prefer to be honest), but then you also have some groups that exist on the extreme end of skill or even higher end of skill which may comprise lets say 10-20% of SWFs (thats just a guess, dont get mad), where they are able to stack all the same perks, and completly break the game, walking away with 90% or better win rates. Top SWFs are just about impossible for killer to win against and that is a real problem.
You can not balance a game where you have solo Q at an average skill leveel of lets say 20/100 and then high end SWF being 100/100. Its too big of a gap. The difference between the two is so vast that high end SWFs are essentially playing an entirely different game.
So yes, I absolutly agree with you and I think this is a super important and worthwhile discussion to have.
The big question is how do we come up with a solution to this that is both as clean as possible and also doesn't totally destroy the game for people playing in SWFs? It is a super difficult thing to come up with solutions for. Anything you do is going to lead to the SWF people being mad and complaining about being punished for playing with their friends (even if that argument is highly manipulative, and extremely flimsy, they are trying to play on the emotions of folks genuinly looking to improve the game balance for both sides).
Just like any other situation, you work towards finding a solution by first identifying what the real problems are, and then you can begin to brainstorm. -
@Lixadonna said:
SWF wouldn't be complained about if SoloQ was more competent. Killers seem perfectly complacent with easy wins.
I do not agree. SWF when played compitantly breaks the game balance. Many perks are not designed with SWF in mind so when a SWF brings the exact same perks on everyone it can create a bad situation. Then you have concepts like old distortion where even 1 person in a well coordinated swf could break the game. Yes I know distortion was changed but the point still remains.
There is still a lot of very valid reasons to take issue with SWFs over even if solo queue was buffed. -
Lack of agency and the general weakness of the killer side in particular is what ends of killing asym games. This has very notably happened with the game Level Zero Extraction. And while it is true that game has other issues as well, including the developers caving on core design elements like maps being dark, and has a serious problem with cheaters, I can, as someone who has played since the full release attest to the serious player agency and balance problem present where alien can feel very weak and have very little agency.
I never played it but VHS had similar problems where the teens were just so much stronger than the monster role and it could feel like as the monster role you just had no chance to do anything.
DbD has managed to avoid these issues by allowing a variety of play styles, regardless of how survivors may feel about them individually, to exist. This makes the killer role feel as though it is more dynamic. You can actually react and adapt the way you play and effectivly counter a variety of stratagies from survivors. This is SUPER important to the health of the game, as we have seen time and time again what happens when this agency is denied to the killer role. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874767#Comment_3874767
I believe the point is that it’s all a matter of opinion. This forum is used to give opinions. Some to agree with, some to not. But just because the opinions are different doesn’t mean one is worth less than the other.
You are of the opinion that killers can play however they want, and that slugging is good for the game, and that hooking is not fun. That is your opinion, and it’s fine to have that opinion but it’s not fact. The tone you push sounds like you’re trying to imply that your opinion is right and other peoples opinions is wrong.
Now there comes an issue when everyone has separate opinions. If we all have different opinions, then how can we possibly move forward? Personally, I believe opinions that can be supported by facts to be much more reliable of a bigger picture. And also the majority of people. I may have a smoking problem, but I don’t believe it’s a problem, it’s my opinion that it isn’t. But everyone around me says it is, because they have all this evidence about smoking being bad for me. I can still have the opinion it isn’t, and keep smoking, but I am willingly ignoring a vast majority of other opinions, and also ignoring those facts alongside it. Which is allowed, of course. But it’s typically not what’s best in the long run.
Many opinions here are that slugging like this, and tunneling and the other things people talked about in this post, is that this isn’t good for the long run of the game. A lot of people aren’t having fun, and when people don’t have fun with a game many of them stop. These tactics also hurt SoloQ significantly more than SWF, which only pushes the game to be even more competitive because there will be less and less reasons to ever play Solo, and more reasons to play SWF, which many killers voice is the most stressful part of their role for them.
You can absolutely have the opinion that nothing should change. But others can have the opinion that things should. The stats support the opinion that killers are in a great spot right now. They win more than they lose, and in this kind of game it’s my opinion that’s how it should be. But on the other hand end of the spectrum if you need people to be okay with losing more than they win, then they need to have fun while doing it. And right now, many people aren’t.
Just like before this big shift change, before the big buffs to killer to ensure they all reached their kill count, before when killer felt awful, when survivors were way more powerful, and survivor queues were so long because people dreaded playing killer. The same thing is happening to the other role, and just like it mattered for killers to ensure they were enjoying the game it should matter survivors are also enjoying the game. You may have a different opinion that it doesn’t matter if they enjoy the game or not, and that’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But many other people do see the importance of both roles having incentive to play those roles, and enjoy them, and these pages and pages of discussion are people’s opinions on what is not enjoyable.
Thats because the opinion that slugging is the problem is not correct. Slugging is fundamentally very similar to being hooked. Nearly identical really. Slugged survivors dont die in 3 downs and can move around. They still need someone to pick them up though just like a survivor needs someone to unhook them. So if the 2 things are so similar then what is it exactly about slugging that people dont like? Lets identify that problem and try to get that fixed instead of calling the entire mechanic bad. That is the opinion I have, and is exactly why I pushed some ideas for fixes to what I feel is the real underlying problem.
I am unhappy because I feel that the other person was engaging in bad faith which is why I am responding to you. Our opinions on the matter are not ones we are likely to be in complete agreement on and that's fine. Whats important is that you are not trying to push for something specifically because it will lead to an extremely favorable game state for the side you play, and instead are being honest, which is something I do appreciate. I can see right through a lot of BS and dont really enjoy wasting my time trying to explain things or argue with someone who has no interest in really being honest about what is being discussed. If people want to have a discussion and try to find real solutions to things that actually are sore spots or flat out problems then I will engage with those people in earnest.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874741#Comment_3874741
No you are not reading the room, you are ignoring what people are saying, yes there is no rulebook but killer behaviour is appalling rn, don't just ignore people. Change will end up happening because people hate the way things are currently also "Posts: 52" lol.
But that IS the point im making. You do not get to decide what is and is not apaling. The killers are not doing anything wrong. They are playing the game. Just because they are not playing in a way you like does not make them a bad person or their behavior appalling.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874619#Comment_3874619
Are you oblivious they were only hooked coz its a bot LMAO
You are assuming. Do not assume. That is also beside the point. I just got done saying it so I will repeat it. Please read this carfully.
Killers are not obligated to do anything the way you want them to do it during a match. they can slug who they want and hook who they want for whatever reason they damn well feel like it. There is no rulebook. -
@fixblitzskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874710#Comment_3874710
I like him too and also think the hate he gets is excessive and mostly unwarranted but i was just saying how I've seen 2 different unconnected channels do the same thing and have the same opinion thus asking if this is the newest trend.
If you watch him play, yes, his build is strong, and it allmost crtainly will become more widespread. Its not just for views though, it is actually just the best way to play killer right now.
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@fixblitzskin said:
true talent is doing nothing but slugging in every video with knockout because hooking isn’t worth it and choy a smaller dbd youtuber also said he isn’t going to hook anymore and just slug. Is 4 man slugging the newest trend in content creation for killers?
you may or may not like him. Im not here to tell you whether to like him or not. I dont think the hate he gets is warranted but you and everyone else are free to have whatever opinions you wish. He is not wrong, however. True is in fact a very old dbd player who has been here even longer than someone like Otz has. This is a fact that Otz himself has admitted in the past. True is also a very skilled player, to deny this is the epitome of foolishness. It is therefore very reasonable, and very correct based on him being one of the oldest Dbd players still around who has always been ahead of most other players in skill, to say that true knows what the heck he is talking about a lot of the time. He is not correct all of the time, no one is. But the amount of hate and dismissal that man gets is honestly baffling.
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1: There absolutely are valid reasons for the killer to slug from the very start of the match. Its called pressure. Many killer players warned well in advanced that if BHVR continued nerfing gen regression and giving survivors more and more powerful second chance and anti pressure perks that this WOULD definitively be the result. So this leaves myself and every other person thinking rationally about the situation to come to the conclusion that the current game balance state is either the result of negligence due to BhVR ignoring these warnings or is in fact very intentional. It must be one of these two things. Now, because the changes that got us here happened over the course of quite a long span of time I tend to believe that this is an active and intentional design choice the developers are making. I would speculate this could be in response to tunneling being so hated. It was simply not possible to destroy tunneling with the way the game was balanced without the game becoming very one sided. A huge shift in the meta was needed to make tunneling largely diminish.
1.5 Killer players are not responsible for the game balance. The devs are. It is horrifically unfair to blame killer players for issues they have no control over. I would also add here on the edit (hopefully the forum doesn't flag my edit as spam like it did a couple of days ago.) that Killer players are not obligated to play in any particular way, use or not use any perks or not go for the 4k. This applies to survivor as well. I would like to suggest that everyone here stop with this "rules for thee but not for me" attitude. It is very annoying.
2. Hooking survivors causes many of the strongest perks in the entire game to activate and thus it is disadvantageous for killers to generally hook the survivor right now.
3. It is highly unfortunate for both sides that the killer can not simply mori all the survivors if they are slugged out and end the game. It is a waste of everyone's time and I say suggest in the strongest possible terms that BhVR if you are reading this thread fix this problem. Because of how high the unhook chance is there is a rather high probability that someone self unhooks in this scenario and then this will again activate some of the most oppressive and difficult to play against perks in the entire game. The killer is basically being forced to keep everyone slugged because hooking has a rather high probability of throwing the match.
4. Because of how weak gen regression perks are right now, walking survivors to a hook now is too slow. Combined with how strong flashlight saves and pallet stuns are, and a huge amount of second chance and anti pressure perks, slugging is the most consistent way for the killer to slow the game down and get map pressure.
5 Slugging is not entirely bad. What is bad is how long it takes for survivors to bleed out. If this were adjusted to not take as long, there would be far less friction. There are a number of very positive things that have happened as a result of slugging being the meta. First among them being that there is more interaction within the matches. What I mean by that is that there are more chases, and those chases can last longer. Being chased is something many survivors tend to find the most fun part of a trial. Next, you arent dead after 3 downs because you arent being hooked. This means that if your teammates are fast you can be picked up more times, get more chances and thus more interaction.Finally, I will say that myself and many other people of both sides are of the opinion that if the issues with bleedout timers and not being able to mori survivors if everyone is slugged is fixed that it will lead to a game that is more enjoyable to play for both sides than the previous meta we had around hooking. There are far too many issues with playing for hooks to possibly go back at the moment and it would take a number of changes including changes to at least a couple of dozen perks to pull off without turning the game into a one sided pub stomp.
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I dont really want to get into discussing perk builds specifically here because it will lead to going on a tangent and possibly derail the thread.
That said, I tend to find survivors who are running wonky, off meta builds to be the most fun to play against. Im not really saying that because I want easier chases and downs. I genuinely find those builds to be more fun a lot of the time depending on what they are doing.
The thing that effects the fun and enjoyment of a match for me most of all though is seeing the survivors be chill. Maybe they goof, know that ive caught them and whip out the lute and start playing me a tune for example. I will often just smile and walk away when i see stuff like that where people are obviously just trying to have a fun match vs trying to be super sweaty. So yeah, it's not really just with perk builds, a lot of it comes down the the way people are behaving in the match. -
@Seraphor said:
I think Luck and Coin offerings are fine. It might be niche and more effective for a coordinated SWF, but it's not useless for a solo to bring a luck offering with Slippery Meat, you will have a half-decent chance of escaping even if it's not guaranteed. And even if you think it's not good enough, that doesn't discredit it's use for a SWF. And an extra chest is useful for when you have an 'open x chests' challenge.
Pretty sure oaks don't stack past the 2nd one, these make such a minor difference anyway, and a lot of maps, particularly indoor maps, are immune anyway as they have fixed hook spawns. I would do away with moving spawn locations entirely, and instead have oak offerings alter the properties of hooks, such as faster/slower sabotage or longer/shorter hook respawn.
Reagents and Shrouds are backwards, the survivor ones benefit killer and vice versa. These could be fixed by simply swapping them over.
The fact that a solo survivor shouldn't bring anything other than a BP offering has more to do with the fact that survivors generally get less BP than killer anyway. This should be addressed first.
BP just feel very strange in general. You can have games as both survivor and killer where you are working your butt off, doing tons of stuff and not get that many more BPs than if you did a lot less.
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Idk I feel that bp gains just feel wierd in general. You can have games as both killer and survivor where you are going crazy, and doing so much, and get barely any more BPs than if you did a lot less.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483996#Comment_3483996
This is same for everyone? Killers are defending their perks as well.
I saw a lot people defended Eruption while it was so busted against Solo survivors.
And i don't know why you are trying to make this post Us vs Them. I am just asking for some buffs for weak killer perks. But you are the one who is blaming survivors for nothing. This post is not about this, please stop.
you think im against killers getting more options for perks/buffing older perks? Id love for it to happen, but, you and I both know the root cause for the usage of the perks you listed in the OP. Survivors do gens so quickly that running a bunch of gen perks is allmost mandatory which severely limits our ability to add variety.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483981#Comment_3483981
Are you sure about this? MfT posts are everywhere. Some people are even complaining about Cage's perks as well.
2 of his perks are very strong. I was being sarcastic as well. I see the posts about MFT. I am pointing out the entitlement of the survivor playerbase. the moment killers get a good perk survivors begin the onslaught of whining and begging for nerfs. But survivors take this attitude like "how dare you say MFT is OP, it's only 3%, thats not that much" in the reverse situation where killers are pointing out that survivors have a tool that is too powerful.
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Killers aren't allowed to have good perks for variety. The few good perks we do have survivors are begging for the devs to nerf. When survivor gets really op perks, we arent allowed to say anything.
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@Samwill226 said:
Honestly, not until gen rushing is dealt with, that's just 100% truth. I know people will argue it but it's true. Seeing gens go off in 90 seconds is just absolute BS and Killer mains are burned out on not only losing without much opportunity but also having their faces rubbed in it with Tbags, hookblocks, repeated flashlights, maps that suck among others. I do not think people realize how ridiculously frustrating playing Killer has become when facing SWF, bullies and gen rush groups. Behavior did so much to push Killer mains to have to slug, camp and tunnel.
Its absurd that survivor mains can still complain when they have so many advantages. 4x the number of perks. 2x the amount of equipment. Nearly every map in the game favors them. Gen rushing. Extraordinarily OP perks like MFT. Meanwhile every single thing the killer can do to try and slow the game down a little so they can catch up survivors want gone so they just win every game. The game is called Dead by Daylight not Survivors Playground. Not to mention the fact that when the survivors win they tend to become extremely toxic with T bags, flashlight spamming, speed vault spamming from the other side of the map to make the killer go deaf ect.
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Map bans.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
The devs are pushing the typical game towards 4 hooks with 3 to 4 escapes. Killers should just have fun getting into a long chase vs an MFT user and call it a win
It certainly does seem like BHVR is pushing for survivors to win nearly every match.
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If they actually ban people for hug teching but not for being astoundingly toxic and unsportsman then BHVR should be ashamed of themselves and need to take time to get thier priorities straight. The general toxicity in the game is a huge problem and it often chokes the fun right out of playing the game. It is a far more pressing issue.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Prestige doesn’t equal skill.
No. but it does equal map and gameplay expierience. High prestiege players should pretty much never be matched with low MMR new players for this reason reguardless of their skill level, they still have far more match expierience which translates into an incredible advantage.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
people find long stalemate matches like that absolutely boring
It is necessary unfortunately. With the current state of the game, survivors are able to do gens so quickly and gen regression perks aren't enough to slow the game down to the point where the killer can catch up on their own. Locking down 3 gen can slow the game down considerably buying the killer some time to make some hooks and catch up, but, it can not be maintained forever. As long as survivors are able to hyper tunnel the gens and they can be done so quickly that the killer cant keep up then tactics like this have to exist. Breaking up 3 gens as survivor is an important counter to this tactic.
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@Nikolaifly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3479615#Comment_3479615
This is exactly my point. MTF is a GOOD perk. Not 'gamebreaking' or anything killer mains try to tell you. Its a small speedbonus. Why does every somewhat good perk need to be gutted? Like MTF is a solid perk, let survivors get a solid perk. Killers on this site complain about everything and im so tired of it. Chill out killer mains, your not being targetted by a series of attacks from behavior, your just throwing a hissyfit the second survivors get a good perk.
Hard disagree. Its a lesser bloodlust that is permanent as long as you are injured with a downside that is almost irrelevant. The loops, pallets, windows, and maps in general were designed and balanced around the killers moving a certain amount faster than the survivors. 3% MS is a hell of a lot and it makes every loop in the game so much safer and chases take so much longer.
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The singularity is strong. Very strong actually. Probably an A tier killer. The reason you dont see him much is because his power takes so much effort to use properly and on console he is a lot lot worse because survivors will run out of the FOV of your cams before you can aim at them. A lot of people think that he is allmost too much effort for the payoff you get with him which I can definitly see. He is definitly a very active killer who is constantly doing stuff with his power. Not the sort of killer you can just play and relax and do well with.
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I mean its pretty obvious. Tunneling means you deliberately pick a player and focus on hooking them over and over to remove them from the match as quickly as possible. I do not consider it to be tunneling if the same survivor makes repeated serious mistakes over and over leading to them getting downed repeatedly. If I down and hook you repeatedly because you are returning to the same gen not even 10 seconds after I hook you and leave the area to look for someone else for instance then you deserve to lose the match.
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The early days for killers were the worst time killers ever had. Infinite loops, Insta blind flashlights, bugs that allowed survivors to kidnap the killer and totally prevent them from playing the game, and then you had entitled survivor mains who began the circle of toxicity by saboing every single hook on the entire map completely preventing the killer from getting hooks and earning points. When killers responded by taking the perks needed to counter this, and responding to this toxicity with toxicity (face camping tunneling ect) nthe survivors cried and cried and cried. The old school players here will remember this and just how bad killers had it back then.
Right now the state of the game is awful but for other reasons having to do with rampant toxicity and extreme sweatiness.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482355#Comment_3482355
Is it possible either your friend or that swf lobby dodged a lobby prior? Sometimes that throws things out of whack as anybody is assigned for a shorter queue.
It is possible. I wouldnt be shocked at all if this were the case either considering how bad the matchmaking is just normally.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482023#Comment_3482023
You can only tank your mmr so far once you reach a specific range if I think?
I don't think it will drop you down to completely new players regardless of how much you lose.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
That is definitely not true. I got one of my friends to try the game and not long after he started he was facing a group of survivors that clearly did not belong in his MMR, they gen rushed him 3 gens in less than 3 minutes. popped the 4th gen at less than 5 minutes and then spent a further 10 minutes flashlight spamming him, and having 1-2 of their team members run to the other side of the map, drop a pallet and do nothing but quick vault over it over and over so that it keeps making that loud noise. He could have chased those survivors around all day and not down even 1. Like I said before, when I told him that BHVR wont do anything to them even though their behavior was incredibly toxic and definitely unsportsman like he nearly quit the game. It really is incredible that BHVR will just let people act like that. It shows that they really dont care about the community otherwise they wouldn't have let the playerbase get so toxic.
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an extremely well timed pallet drop can stun him out of his power and cause him to not vault the pallet.
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@Xernoton said:
Solid argument.
Although I wouldn't say Wesker is simple. There is a lot more to him than just rush in a direction and hit the survivor.
Except Wesker has a lot of hidden complexity. People are discovering new and more crazy stuff you can do with him all the time. He is simple enough on the surface that you can just pick him up, play and have a fun time, unlike nurse and blight for example. The skill cap on him is deceptively high though so if you really like playing him he has lots of growth potential as far as power level is concerned.
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@[Deleted User] said:
This isn’t necessarily a question about viability or where they rank on a tier list (but of course those factors may influence your enjoyment)- it’s how many killers do you have in constant rotation and have fun with, whether you win, lose or draw. With the killer roster at 30+ characters I’m interested to see how many of those you guys actually enjoy playing as or whether you have really strict mains.
I’m seeing a lot of posts across DBD social media concerning Wesker’s almost omnipresence in matches in contrast with questions regarding “why does nobody play x killer”, with ‘x’ currently seeming to be singularity at the moment.
Killers I always seem to have fun with are Spirit, Slinger, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Pinhead, Wesker and Knight. I would add on that I can have good fun with Billy, Myers, Sadako and Dredge but this is more dependent on other factors. With the others I have fun almost all of the time, even losing.
That would depend on the survivors I queue into. If the survivors actually allow a fun and enjoyable match to happen then I can have fun playing just about any killer. Against a team of extraordinarily toxic survivors there isn't a killer in the game that is going to magically make the game fun.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482155#Comment_3482155
What are you on about ? The haste effect is 2 seconds not 12. You can't use it with BT because you need to be healthy. The probability of getting a BNP is 0.0045 and you can't get it twice in a row, so it's a 0.0045 chance every 80 seconds assuming you're always healthy, the killer has no exhaustion add-on / perk and you spam the perk instead of using it when it's useful.
Also, BT is fine.
The ability for it to generate a free purple toolbox with brand new parts is acceptable in your mind? Seeing 3+ toolboxes with BNP makes gens already pop so fast it's a actually just silly. So really, lets just give survivors a perk that does something goofy but has a small chance to immediately win them the game. That sounds fine right?