NMCKE
NMCKE
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Everyone who understands how the game works knows how unbalanced Camping and Tunneling is in it's current iteration.
How are they unbalanced? Specifically explain how they are unbalanced?
Survivors get basekit BT for 10 seconds with 10% haste. OTR makes this 80 seconds, minus the speed, but you get Iron Will and Aura Immunity.
Reassurance is in the game, which pauses hook timer for 30 seconds at T3.
There's actually a lot that can be done against these. Not sure how they are unbalanced.
In solo queue, I agree, but generally speaking, if the team knows what they are doing. It's fine.
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@AcelynnBen said:
you know it has a been a problem for years, just you getting stuck in a 2 seconds animations while a survivor pats the gen and there regression gone
it might not seem like big idea when the gen is barely working but when its 98% , trust me it gets really frustrating
why not make it so when the survivors touch the gen for 2 seconds they get a skill check THEN it stops the regression
also even ignoring the gen is not an option anymore since wiretrap exists which can make the shack chases impossible because if u hit the gen they are most likely reached another jungle gym
and yes before you use your big brain and tell me use perks, you know...running the same perks over and over tends to get a little boring and since this game barely has the flexibility to run ANY BUILD on either side, trying to play with different builds tends to get a little annoying, mainly because i can't get any damn value
I agree with having a skill check right when a survivor taps the generator, but killers lose the 2% on kick because survivors can potentially be interrupted for about, I think, 10% if they don't finish the skill check.
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
Jokes aside, I played a match as her after months of leaving her to die in the heap of bad killers and DAMN she sucks. Legit only reason I got a 2k on Ironworks was thanks to Terminus.
The only thing she needs is an ambush buff because she doesn't have any stealth potential.
I'm thinking she should crouch walk faster and make her like GF where there's no locked animation. She simply crouches and uncrouches at free will.
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@supersonic853 said:
Right now insidious is mainly only used for camp instances or some cheaky mindgames. What if ontop of its current effect they just had it add 5 seconds onto undetectable and oblivious perks and addons? Do you think it'd see more use outside of camping? I would think with it supposing to be the "king of stealth perks" a lethal pursuer type effect would help give it that push? What do you think?
I had an idea similar to this, what do you think? I personally like the undetectable nature the perk provides, but just does it poorly.
Insidious
When a survivor is hooked, perk activates.
All survivors become oblivious for 20/25/30 seconds.
When a survivor occupied with an action, they do not recover from the oblivious effect.
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@Pulsar said:
$$$
Kinda sad that money is more important than the community, which is the sole reason why they are successful.
Like don't get me wrong, great event, but don't make things exclusive. I could get behind making it exclusive for a few months so those who took the time can show off a little bit, but permanently exclusive? That's just disgraceful to the community.
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@RonMan32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220463#Comment_3220463
Ditto, I basically said this verbatim in the first part of this message:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220519#Comment_3220519
Tunneling either has to simply continue to exist, and maybe hopefully BHVR can gently "explain" via public channels and maybe tips and stuff in game that it is necessitated to get these survivors to shut it. OR there needs to be major changes to the game so winning without tunneling at high MMR is actually possible, and then greater anti tunneling can be added in. The latter I think would be better for everyone's "net fun" but the former really wouldn't bother me. I find camping a bigger issue frankly. Specifically facecamping midmatch, not endgame camping or generous wide proxy camping. You at least get to actually press buttons and play the game if you get tunneled out.
The main problem with tunneling is solo queue. There's no communication and unlike SWF, the game picks your teammates.
Ignoring these issues, if we want to alleviate tunneling and I say alleviate because you can never truly get rid of tunneling. Killers can still do it regardless of how many restrictions are put into place. We need to reward killers more for going out of their way to hook each survivor 2 times each. Currently, if you see a survivor on death hook, then one who's fresh, never touched a hook, the killer who make a fool of themselves not to get rid of the person who's on death hook.
I'm not great with suggesting balance changes, but if I had to make one, I'd make a few changes:
▪︎For each survivor hooked, all injured survivors gain a 2% repair speed penalty. An additional 4% repair speed penalty is added when all survivors have been hook once and twice.
▪︎Killer gains a 7% haste effect when in a chase while another survivor is hooked.
Not perfect suggestions and some of these may even be horrible, but something like this can encourage killers to go for 8 hooks more often. Then we can start punishing tunneling with basekit changes, which I have no idea on how to at the moment, but current BT is doing a pretty good job at the moment.
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@JackFrostMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220500#Comment_3220500
Necessary? No. Profitable? If you can get away with it
I'm completely against it.
I have two jobs, and streaming Dead by Daylight is NOT one of them.
I have military duty on the 22nd of October, and won't be back until the 14th of November. That's literally half of the event gone, and skins locked behind exclusive paywall. I say pay wall because if we don't get them before post event, they become exclusive.
FOMO is garbage... 🤡
DBD is one of the best paying games for BHVR, do they really need to go above and beyond?
I could understand if they went exclusive for a few months post event, THEN putting them in the shop. But permanently exclusive? Yeah, um, no.
Seeing as this is one of BHVR's most paying titles, it would be smart of them to listen to the community that gave them all success in the first place. Hopefully, we will get an official response on this.
And I apologize if I sound rather aggressive. Just don't like the idea of a company screwing over their community, mind you, the only community that's passionate enough to support them and gave them success in the first place.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
A lot of posts critique many Killers as being boring, too powerful (oftentimes, too weak), and not fun (either to play as or against). So, truly, what original Killer ideas do you have that check off all of those boxes? How can the devs create multiple Killers that meet all of that criteria (in your opinion)? This is not an antagonistic and rhetorical post. It's a genuine question.
Perfect answer: Wesker.
He's strong, fun, and balanced. One of the most reasonable killers in DBD.
Killer balance should be referenced from him.
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@My_Aespa said:
I hate the idea too since I pretty much have to work, come home, sleep, repeat. I barely have time for games anymore since I just got my hours at work increased dramatically. Why waste money on a game I barely have time to play anymore though tbh. It's inconsiderate not thinking of people who have important things going on or work and they don't have time to play as much. Keep the skins in the store, what's the worse that can do? More choices for cosmetics? *GASP*
I'm not getting half of the skins because I have military training on the 22nd of October and won't be back until the 14th of November.
Needless to say... I'm screwed. 🤡
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@JackFrostMan said:
It's to explore FOMO (Fear of Missing Out). If you keep it around, you'll get a steady source of money but slowly over time. But if it's limited, people will flock to buy it, most likely giving you more profit in more time.
That's the long and short of it.
I love the experts who dig into this stuff and know what they are doing. Just love how smart the community is to immediately call it out. Made me laugh how it didn't take long either.
Question to be asked at the end of the day, is it truly necessary to use FOMO?
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@feffrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220463#Comment_3220463
The need to tunnel is a skill issue and most if not all killers have the utilities they need not to tunnel . I play killer and don't tunnel and I do just fine or did just fine (before the changes)
The need to tunnel is exactly a skill issue, knowing when to do it and when not to do it. If you're down to a generator remaining, it might just be better to kill off a survivor you just hooked as opposed to going for someone who's never touched a hook. However, tunneling randomly will just throw the game, so yes — there's a difference.
Surely not 100% of your games have been all sunshine and rainbows. I know pretty much all killers have been forced to tunnel a few times because the situation called for it.
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@feffrey said:
Players who tunnel should outright get banned if not suspended its unsportsmanlike conduct and just a hostile gaming environment.
Those who tunnel do not care about the strat winning or losing they do it because they can and to ruin a players game.
It's fun when I can ruin another player game right ? Until they out it down and go elsewhere. I honestly did andvkinda just play once or twice a few weeks.
Now they're trying to address the tunneling camping issue but it's kinda too late now for a returning player they've made too many changes at that
Banning killers for tunneling is outrageous. Expecting the killer to hook every survivor 3 times, up to a total of 12 hooks, when there's only 1 - 2 generators is insane.
Yes — I agree, it's frustrating and no one likes to be in the receiving end of tunneling. I'll be the first to say I hate tunneling, but it's a necessary evil killer's need to bring the odds back into their favor. If you want to see less tunneling, we need to make killers feel like they don't need to tunnel in the first place. Then afterwards, we can make basekit changes that punish tunneling. You need to address the cause before actively punishing something.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218858#Comment_3218858
The goal of survivors is to finish 5 gens. the goal of the killer is to kill 4 survivors.
Do you work on a gen 33% of the way and then leave to a new 0% one? No
So why should the killer get a kill 33% of the way then stop to start a new 0% one?
It goes both ways. If you want killers to be inefficient at their objective you need survivors to do the same with theirs. Double standards like this will get us nowhere.
This likely won't happen until the devs add a second objective alongside generators (I.E. Leaving the generator to find a part). If the devs do add a second objective, we will need to force killers to spread hooks around since we are forcing survivors to leave generators to find parts.
TL;DR — It's difficult to please both sides without completely changing core game mechanics.
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I don't see why we can't make Reassurance basekit, then make the perk extend the duration for 20/25/30 more seconds.
Can't see why not when we are already adding BT basekit, UB basekit, and etc. The devs are trying to get rid of these unfun strategies.
And I do believe genrushing should be addressed to, but specifically focusing on camping since that's the topic of the thread.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218327#Comment_3218327
My point is that he basically becomes a better wraith at that point, being able to hide your red stain and TR in chase is huge, which is why it has the reveal mechanic as a counter.
Except Wraith gets insane speed and Invisibility, GF would not have that. Wraith can shred some loops with his cloak speed and post uncloak speed, GF doesn't have that.
Yes, being undetectable is undoubtedly strong, I agree there, but the killer is forcing themselves into a Plague situation where they lose half their power just because they wanna be all cool and undetectable. Additionally, they still lose stealth when attacking, so it's not going to be active a lot.
Just think it will be fine, my suggestion is just a rough idea. Things can be changed later on for the sake of balance.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218114#Comment_3218114
So if he never stalks, he just never has a TR and can attack straight out of it? I like how much consideration went into multiple variables, but thats a big one thats missing.
It has actually.
Shouldn't be a problem, he's a 115% killer and if he's not stalking you — everyone gets two health states. Additionally, his stealth is still broken post attack. You should be good.
Just pay more attention and use common game sense. Avoid easy to ambush areas. I'm sure you played against a stealth killer before so I'm not going to elaborate further.
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@jamally093 said:
I faced one and he was leaning from a corner and only a leg was behind cover so I turn the camera to face him and even my character and yet nothing it wasn't until I got exposed that it started saying he was getting revealed so am I missing something.
His mechanics are as buggy as Wesker's.
Few changes to fix this awful mechanic:
▪︎Ghostface can ONLY be revealed when stalking in Night Shroud.
▪︎While in Night Shroud, the power meter can be either Green, Orange, or Red.
— Green: Concealed, no survivor is looking in your direction.
— Orange: Seen, a survivor is looking in your direction.
— Red: Revealed, a survivor has been looking in your direction for more than 5 seconds. Stalking in this status will disable Night Shroud, putting you on cool-down.
▪︎Survivors can "look" at Ghostface if:
— They have clear line of sight to him, unlimited range.
— Looking in his direction in a 30-degree cone within a range of 16 meters.
— Ghostface will always be in Red Status when in a chase.
There you go, GF is now fair. Numbers can be tweaked for balance later, but you get the idea.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
@toxik_survivor , @NMCKE I don't wanna sound ungrateful, but bots are terrible in PVP games. I would totally be up for a bot mode PVE.
For me, getting a bot teammates in PvP after dc is worrying that it might normalize having more bots in the pvp mode, imagine getting a bot Killer in solo or even a bot teammate from the start. Maybe I'm too sceptical?
Can't be any worse than not having someone at all. Think about it, at least a bot will distract the killer and do generators, some players can't even do that. As for the killer bots, they may have to be worked on because they have different powers and etc. Just going around and M1 won't be enough, especially if it's a M2 killer.
Just imagine a bot Nurse trying to M1. xd
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Been reading people complaining about solo survivor and because of my own game earlier where it went a little bit like this.
We play against jolt + thana Nurse (she also had nurse's calling and bbq and chili) and I think it was Groaning Storehouse. We had a No Mither David (nuff said). I start on a gen near shack close to a hill and Haddie brings Nurse and of course my gen regresses. Anyway, Haddie seemed like a newbie. SHe hooks her and I think I or someone else saves her, then she downs her again and I'm around for the rescue but sees me and starts chasing me. Ok it takes a while so she lets me and goes to the other gens and I try to heal Haddie.
Then she finds David and hooks him and then Tapp.
So I go to save David since he's almost at second stage and we trade hooks. Tapp is on the next hook and he never saves him so he hits second stage. Haddie is trying to do a gen and David is trying to do a gen as well (no gens are popping besides the first one from what I assume was Tapp maybe before he got hooked). And I see no one coming to my rescue or Tapp's so I decided to try for the 4%. On second attempt I unhook myself and unhook Tapp although he is second stage.
For some reason David decides to DC (maybe he was going for adept considering No Mither and was hoping for hatch) and a tiny bit later Tapp is killed while I'm trying to do a gen which Nurse keeps interrupting. I finish it when Haddie arrives and Nurse starts chasing both of us. She catches Haddie and hooks her. I unhook her after a while but for some reason Haddie decided to follow me around (like I said she seemed like a newbie who was afraid of Nurse). So Nurse couldn't lose any of us since we stuck together and we both died sometime after. The game looked very grim from the moment I saw David with No Mither, and especially when David did not save Tapp who was next to his hook.
Somehow I managed to pip once although we lost a ######### game with 3 gens left. Despite all of this I didn't feel as bad cause I felt the game rewarded my play despite the odds.
So my suggestion would be, in case of DC for every objective/heal/unhooking etc. that happens afterwards, maybe survivors should receive more BP and maybe it should reflect more strongly on their performance. For me that would be quite something to offset my negative feeling of being robbed of a decent games.
Solo Queue is bad for two reasons.
▪︎SBMMR
▪︎Lack of information and coordination
SWF is so powerful because you can pick your teammates, then communicate with them (I.E. "He's camping me.")
We can't pick our teammates in solo queue, not much can be done, but we can make other things better.
I feel like bots should replace survivors who DC, even if they aren't good. Something is better than nothing.
Then we need icons beside our portraits that tell everyone what we are doing:
Generator Icon = Repairing
Self Care Icon = Healing
Empathy Icon = Healing Others
Killer Icon = Being Chased
Totem Icon = Cleaning
Chest Icon = Unlocking
Exit Gate Icon = Opening Gates
...
... Etc ...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216729#Comment_3216729
Thanks, I'm finally starting to feel better today.
I think I've garnered a bit of a reputation for having awful Solo Q games and posting about them here lol. It is a completely infuriating experience.
That's great news buddy. :)
You may not know, but solo queue can quickly make me salty. No, I don't throw a tantrum or do anything stupid, I'm just saying I get fed up after a while of bad games. Dead by Daylight is one of those games — for me personally — that I have to take a break from playing every now and then. It's either I take a break, or I play Nurse and purposely 8 hook, 2K everyone to blow off some steam from survivor.
If solo queue had icons, the experience would be way better.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216634#Comment_3216634
STBFL doesn´t seem to be meta right now. Anyway, i still think the basekit BT should be a different health state than enduring. That way, it could proc once more with perks like the normal BT, DH or OtR. While not being completely broken like what we had on the 6.1.0 PTB.
This is actually a good idea. :)
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I hope you get better buddy.
Through, you're probably not missing much. My solo queue games have been awful, it's either a DC or hook suicide, then I'm put in a dilemma: Either do a generator so that the killer doesn't target me as the "hider", or hide until the endgame if they are sweaty.
In most situations, I just do a generator until the killer hooks me. Game is already over at 5 generators, 1 DC / sucide, unless they decide to farm, I let go and move on. And I know, they don't have to farm / be nice, I'm just telling you what my experience is. This mostly stems from DCers / Suciders, and SBMM, but not much I can do. Just doing what I can to get the most from the 100% survivor BP bonus.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216546#Comment_3216546
Oh yes, things are a bit different now. But all those players that ruined the game for their teammates by farming them don´t have vanished. Just look at all the players that rage quit during the 6.1.0 release.
Bonus xp wouldn´t hurt. Sounds like a nice idea.
Yeah, bonus EXP would be a great icing on the cake, but I'm afraid it won't happen because it would mean more iridescent shards. It could throw off BHVR's source of revenue too much.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216542#Comment_3216542
Remember back when WGLF with a 200% bloodpoint bonus was introduced? Survivor queues skyrocket and the quality of the matches was... well. People farmed their teammates for stacks.
Awful I'd assume, you do have a point, but things were also different back then. We have things to discourage farming, such as getting fewer blood points. Additionally, worse comes to worse, survivors do get protection after getting unhooked. They can cover at least 44 meters moving at 110% — surely they can reach something useful. Ultimately, you can just report those who sandbag the game through farming. Eventually support will see a pattern with enough reports to know they are sandbagging the game.
I don't think it would hurt to also include experience points in the mix. 100% BP + 100% EXP. EXP is not really tied to gameplay as much as BP are.
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@Tsulan said:
That would cause massive problems. As even the most hardcore killer main would switch to survivor.
On top of that, the quality of matches would quickly decline, as survivors would attempt to farm their teammates.
That's where you report them for Sandbagging, but I agree it's a bit too much.
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@yauniqua said:
Why doesnt Jill's Blastmine disable Pop goes the Weasle?
At this point, it's only a meme perk meant to humiliate/annoy the Killer. There's no real benefit.
You can disable PGTW with Repressed Alliance. Blocks a generator for 30 seconds, which means if the killer takes longer than 15 seconds to show up or post RA, they lose out on PGTW value.
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@kizuati said:
If Survivor had 250% incentives I would actually put on my clown make up and pretend a solo queue match will go well. Smile.
What if the incentive gave you up to 100% more experience? Which in consequence, means more iridescent shards?
Might be a bad idea, but just throwing that idea out there. Sounds nutty tho.
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Which is why I believe killers should be rewarded for spreading hooks more, but be severely punished for camping at inappropriate times.
Reassurance shouldn't have been nerfed on the post PTB. It should be buffed to 50/55/60 seconds to neutralize the nerf it received.
I can't wait for Reassurance to become a dead perk.
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216432#Comment_3216432
Whatever dude lots of what ifs. If they beat me proper id have less of an issue with it. End of the day I got my last down and hook I earned that. Base game mechanics took it away seems like hand holding to me.
Base game mechanic took it (my sacrifice) away seems like hand holding to me.
Yeah, I agree, 4% can be frustrating and I know they can even be game changing, but in your situation, you had the opportunity to still catch them.
The take away here — hook them far away from the gates, camp their 4%, proceed to bodyblock, down them a little after 10 seconds, then hook them.
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@ArchAbhor said:
I just had a tense game against a swf who played really well. No toxicity. I got a bunch of hooks didnt camp or tunnel. Fun game as bubba on rpd. I got everyone to death hook except one who eluded me all match. I killed one. Then fought to keep the gens and lost. I found the one that was fresh hook as he was opening the door. He dead harded to open it but I caught him. So I bring him to the hook on the outside. With the door open the match is basically over. I was content with a tie. No one was going to get the unhook, but of course he 4%ed. So i rev up and hit him on the way out. Even with perfectly charged chainsaw sweeping I was unable to hit him twice, and what was a well fought tie turned into a loss. This is bs theres nothing I could have done to prevent that from happening.
Why are perks like DS and off the record turned off in endgame but not bt? Does the same login not apply to Base BT? It should be off in endgame. Then theres base kit unbreakable. I'm not going to go into why thats dumb but assuming it comes in it robs the killer with any kind of meaning counter to efficient teams. If I get one out then they are able to complete the gens often I find myself forced to slug to gain any kind of momentum. Those kinds of plays to create pressure is completely gone. No ones coming for the pick up because they can do that themselves consequence free. When bringing in base kit stuff please read more into it and test it more.
You should probably hook the survivor as far as possible so their 10 seconds of Endurance won't last them to the exit gates.
For instance, at 92% (3.68m/s) carrying, you can transport a survivor to a hook that's ~58 meters away given the perfect scenario. A survivor moving at 110% (4.4m/s) for 10 seconds can only travel exactly 44 meters. You have a 12 meter gap to down them, and likely more if you caught them before the exit gates. You can also body block them as well — making them cover less distance.
You had the tools available to guarantee the kill, but didn't know how to go about it. Sometimes when we are in a tense, stressed environment, there are things we don't see nor think about.
Truthfully, and this is more of a personal opinion, a 1K with 9 hooks is pretty much a draw, well done on that game!
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@Raccoon said:
and incentivise waking up?
First, let's give some actual incentives for survivors going out of their way to use Alarm Clocks.
Alarm Clocks
Halts sleep timer for 60 seconds (was 30 seconds).
All other changes still apply.
With that out of the way, we will add a secondary effect to Freddy's Power: Deep Sleep.
When survivor's are asleep, another timer starts. Takes 120 seconds for survivors to enter Deep Sleep.
Deep Sleep
Removes the lullaby entirely.
Freddy sees the auras of all survivors performing interactions (I.E. Reparing, Healing, Etc.) outside of 32 meters, and can teleport within 12 meters to them.
Can only wake up through an Alarm Clock (with the exception of getting hooked), but they can use any Alarm Clock to wake up.
Miscellaneous
Nightmare can use both Dream Snares and Dream Pallets, but share a token system. Can only have at most 10 traps active in the trial.
Dream Snares now hold a survivor in place, they must succeed a difficult skill check to escape. If they fail, they will keep trying until they succeed. Dream Snares have a 10 second warm up period before they are armed.
Teleportation cool-down is significantly increased, but cool-down reduction from sleeping survivors is also significantly increased.
These my not be good ideas, but just to spark some conversation.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
To the extreme its because players have free will.
Like genuinely if a player sets their mind to making the game miserable for someone it doesn matter if DS is 10 seconds and procs twice and hooks stages take 3 minutes each they are going to kill them. Sure it gives other survivors more time to attempt to save them but chances are they are going to still eat the DS or mouthbreath into Nancy's face for longer. So not matter how ineffective it is there will still be the small minority who do it just to ruin peoples day or because they dont like SWFs or because they dont like X, Y or Z about you.
On a less extreme note its more to do with just player agency and general logical strategy.
It is a pretty logical thing to do from the casual players POV or just the POV of winning without really caring about the other side. 3v1s are easy -> getting a survivor out soon makes the game easier -> hooking everyone and then killing them takes too long -> focus your hooks on 1 person and make the 3. Also thinking about this in the sense of trying to eliminate the weakest link works, why hook Leon who will only be on his 1st hook when you can hook Nea on death hook. One of them gives you 10x more value and pressure for the rest of the game, wheras the other gives you some pressure for 60 odd seconds. Tunneling is also a lot less of a DBD only issue than I feel people make it out to be, in most regards constantly diving a teams healers and squishies who are the weakest in combat is the equivalent to tunneling and that has throughout many games lifetimes been the meta at many times.
Camping on the other hand makes complete logical sense in the idea of positioning. I feel most people are aware that camping isnt a DBD exclusive issue but I feel its looked on a lot harsher in DBD due to the nature of its objectives not being stationary, like calling someone out for "camping" the bomb or whatever objective always ends up making you sound silly. In a sense however DBD is just a series of stationary objectives however. When a survivor gets hooked they become the point that needs capturing. It would make sense that you would want to contest that objective especially if there is other objects such as gens nearby. If a killer gets a hook within a area of 3 or 4 gens they can easily patrol there is very little incentive for them to leave. It also sort of goes hand in hand with the get rid of the weakest link mentality of tunneling. If someone hits second stage its a huge gain for you since they will just be dead on the next hook. The main difference now however is unlike tunneling where you want to tunnel a weak chaser, you want to camp a strong chaser as to not need to have another lengthy chase. Camping also affords you the benefit that survivors have to come to you now instead of you needing to chase them down. All of these sound like pretty good benefits.
In my opinion tunneling and camping will never be fixed by nerfing them (at least in the way many think they should be nerfed), instead other strategies should be incetivised. and made stronger.
I agree, you can never stop camping / tunneling — if the killer wants you dead, they will make sure you leave the match dead. Even if it means the killer has to throw the match.
I think the main problem is solo queue. They don't have the information available nor the coordination to punish these strategies. This is partly why BT is basekit, but it's also there to strictly discourage the killer from tunneling.
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@Red_Beard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455456#Comment_2455456
I don't see anyone giving you hate. I see people questioning why it is important to you that someone doesn't want to kill you when you want them too and people suggesting possible answers to your question. It really doesn't matter what your intent with trying to give the kill is. If they killer doesn't want to take it, they don't have too.
People are saying I'm giving the killer petty kills, then we have you saying I'm forcing it upon the killer to sacrifice me. I'm not, I'm just asking a question about why killers don't want to sacrifice me then you're saying things like "The killer doesn't have to sacrifice you" implying that I'm forcing the killer to sacrifice me when I'm not. I'm just asking a question, holy crap, just answer the question without negatively assuming things about me.
Why is that so hard? 😭
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2455352#Comment_2455352
I’m not calling you out or anything like that. I understand that you are trying to do something nice and I 100% respect that. I’m just trying to give you some advice on that you should do it in a way that still makes the other side feel like they deserve the kill/escape. That is all.
How through? I can only emote, unless you want me to invite them to a discord call and tell them they can have it.
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@Red_Beard said:
Why is this a big deal? If they don't want to kill you they don't have to. Maybe they don't want a kill they don't feel they earned. Maybe they were intentionally planning not to kill anyone from the start, which I have done many times. Sometimes I just want to go into the match to have fun and chase survivors or do a challenge that doesn't require me to kill them and I want them all to escape. In those times, if the survivor runs up to the hook and points at it for me to hook them and I know they are on death hook, I just shake my head no.
If you want to wait out EGC and die, that is your choice. If not, just leave like you have been and accept that they didn't want the kill.
It's not, I'm simply just asking why. I'm just trying to be nice. I don't understand why I'm getting all kinds of hate just for posting this when I'm just trying to do a nice act.
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@GannTM said:
If you’re going to do that then try to not make it obvious to them that you are letting them get a kill. Some people hate pity kills or escapes.
Pitty kills? Pitty escapes? Why is EVERYTHING taken out of context, I'm just trying to be nice. I can't make it anymore obvious than pointing at a hook, there's no communication between the killer and survivor.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451779#Comment_2451779
I think the base kit power is fine from an interactive standpoint and can even stand to be buffed a bit.
Passive Timer and Active Timer would fix Tampered Timer, if you know, you know.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2450903#Comment_2450903
So because one is worse the other is fine? That's not right in my book.
DC is worse than AFK killer, so I guess AFK is fine. Thats silly.
Its unfair to say that its on both sides to makes the game fun. So your mindset is so survivor sided even when I'm saying its both sides responsibilities its acting like survivors are the victim and must get their way.
"However, it's always the survivor's fault, right?"
I literally said its on both sides to change it.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Someone: Work with the killer to make it better.
Survivor: But survivors have it worse and you have perks, so your problems don't matter.
Someone: ok well then no I'm not going to throw for you to have fun if you can't do the same for me.
"Also, fun fact, I'm one of the survivors who give baby killers a sacrifice if they didn't do good."
I've seen people say that on here a few times, never in my 3 years of playing have I seen it happen in game and I'm not the only one either. I've had plenty of killers play "nice"
Supposing you're telling the truth, way more survivors need to do this.
It's just exhausting to argue when any time I try to be open about survivors having it bad, someone doesn't even acknowledges my points and just makes it a penius measuring contest about who has it worse.
I kinda blew a fuse about why is it always the survivor's fault? because whenever I make a statement about survivors having it bad, people instantly jump on me saying killers have it worse. This doesn't happen when I say killers have it bad, oddly enough. In my first comment, did I say survivors have it worse? Not in the slightest. Both sides have their flaws, but I'm just focusing on why I feel like camping / tunneling can be frustrating, that's it. If you want to have the measuring contest, take it to someone else.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2447680#Comment_2447680
If the killer is at 0-1 hooks do we really need to split/focus on gens?
Its just frustrating when the killer get 1 hook and 3 gens pop and the survivors act like they're going to get 11 hooks in 2 gens.
Both sides are responsible for this problem, not just killers. If survivors want killers to sweat less they also need to sweat less. But (most) survivors don't wanna listen. They want to be able to slam gens while the killer isn't allowed to slam kills, and somehow they think that's fine.
Both sides need to choose optimal or not optimal, not optimal for me but not for thee.
I've seen killers choose to play nice. I have never heard/seen a survivor go "oh I'm going to stop working on this gen because the killer is behind. Oh they got no kills, here I'll sacrifice myself."
The double standards are strong unfortunately.
It's worse for the survivor because they didn't get to play the game at all, they are forced to hang there doing nothing. At least the killer gets to hunt down some survivors and try some things out. They get to play the game. And they have strong endgame perks to catch up last second, hooks don't mean anything, sacrifices do.
And you're being a bit unfair, in my scenario, a survivor DC'd and the killer is still acting like we can slam 5 generators in minutes. However, it's always the survivor's fault, right? They still must suffer even more one because their teammates DC'd.
Also, fun fact, I'm one of the survivors who give baby killers a sacrifice if they didn't do good.
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@fogdonkey said:
I tried to play nice and "survivor friendly"... But it just doesn't work. I can't afford 4 people to sit on gens. Survivors are not playing "killer friendly", they are just pushing gens without even healing. Especially these SWFs are completely destroying me.
Maybe it is also because I play weaker killers like Trickster. Sometimes it takes a lot of time until I manage to down a competent survivor. And if they run to the shack, I am usually just forced to give up the chase, because the gens will be flying.
Anyway... I just start to hate this game.
I'm fine with these killer tactics, but if we're at 5 generators, do you really need to tunnel / camp? By no means am I saying you can't do it, but it's frowned upon if you do it when it's not necessary at all, especially in situations where you're not even close to losing the game.
It's just frustrating when one of my teammates DC, then the killer acts like we're going to get 5 generators done in 4 minutes and needs to wet the floor with their pool of sweat. I don't care if I still get sacrificed, but can I at least play the game before you get your 4K?
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Hey Tsulan, can you respond to this comment? It's on the first page towards the bottom — I'll appreciate it if you responded!
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443800#Comment_2443800
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443805#Comment_2443805
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443806#Comment_2443806
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443814#Comment_2443814
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443821#Comment_2443821
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443835#Comment_2443835
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443870#Comment_2443870
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443904#Comment_2443904
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443920#Comment_2443920
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443948#Comment_2443948
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443959#Comment_2443959
Going to ask another question to players who gave YES for question THREE — it would be appreciated if you responded, but I understand otherwise!
This is a single multiple choice answer, pick either A, B, C, or D. You can put your reasoning after your answer of course!
Since you want exit gates to be more balanced if the hatch was removed and-or balanced in general, what model best fits how you would fix the exit gate spawns?
Model A — Line of sight blockers + Gates on adjacent walls. [Note: Corners gates would be rare]
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NEBRCVS2S9X1/20210820-155901.jpg
Model B — Gate Switches will be inside the exit area + Gates spawn on the same wall but are distant from each other.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/69SPLH31GWY4/20210820-160155.jpg
Model C — Switches are separated from the gates + Gates can spawn on any wall with no distance requirement
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IVB7AV0C4JMA/20210820-160506.jpg
Model D — Your suggestion to balancing gate spawns
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@stikyard said:
No
No
Yes
No
Reasons - If we removed hatch Kill rates would go through the roof, already sitting at 50% - 70%+. Exit gates should already be balanced that way but, whatever. Keys should have a short unlock timer, very short but, enough to give the Killer a chance. Still this would likely increase already high kill rates.
@[Deleted User] said:
Yes
No
Yes
No
---------------
Keys just need an animation lock that takes a handful of seconds and they'll be fine. Also, closing a hatch that's been opened by a key shouldn't trigger EGC if the gens aren't all done. That's just silly.
@FancyMrB said:
Yes
No
Yes
No
I'm hesitant about the last question. I think keys are fine mechanically but they promote selfish play styles which is not what playing survivor is about. As a solo it has f'ed me over countless times.
@Aven_Fallen said:
Yes.
No.
No.
No.
Addition to the third question:
I think Exit Gates need to be balanced in general, regardless what happens with the Hatch. I think Killers should not be able to see both Exit Gates without moving or by only moving a few meters. They should have to walk some distance to see them. But also Exit Gates should not spawn so far away from each other that the Survivor can escape because the Killer was just guessing wrong.
Addition to the fourth question:
While I think that Keys are not balanced, I dont think they are as imbalanced as people claim they are. If multiple Survivors escape, they also did the majority of their Objective. The only part which is annoying is when they 3-genned themselves and get away with it. Other than that, I am always fine with Key Escapes. I am not happy with them, but at least it was not my fault that they escaped.
@Apollos said:
Yes.
No.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm OK with the current spawning conditions, but I would prefer it if hatch required 2 sacrifices before it could attempt to spawn. The advantage of seeing the hatch before EGC is something both killer and survivor can play upon and I like that element. Gates should be rebalanced regardless imo when it comes to placement. With the way keys are now (only Very Rare or Iridescent work, requires a charge to use), I think they're balanced enough. Reworking the hatch to spawn only after 2 deaths would mean that survivors could force a tie at best, not a win by being lucky and/or coordinated.
@FFirebrandd said:
Yes.
No.
Read description.
No.
Reasonings: For question one I'm ok with the hatch spawn rules if keys get nerfed. Otherwise they need to be made more restrictive.
For question two, Hatch creates some interesting and fun gameplay surrounding it, game would be worse without it at all.
For question 3, firstly I don't find that the exit gates usually spawn in such a way that the killer can see both gates. Also they definitely don't need to spawn further apart. They do however need some balancing... but not in the "Hatch is shut, EGC is on, gl with the gates." situation. I find them to be fine under those circumstances. However, the exit gates need to be slower and regress with checkpoints if they're powered via generators... but unchanged if they're powered via Hatch stomp.
For question 4, the most broken part of Keys is that you can instantly use them. I saw a suggestion where unlocking Hatch took ~5s, hatch stayed open 45-60s, and the Survivor who opened it does not automatically jump through. I think I'd be OK with Keys if they worked like that.
Going to ask another question to players who gave YES for question THREE — it would be appreciated if you responded, but I understand otherwise!
This is a single multiple choice answer, pick either A, B, C, or D. You can put your reasoning after your answer of course!
Since you want exit gates to be more balanced if the hatch was removed and-or balanced in general, what model best fits how you would fix the exit gate spawns?
Model A — Line of sight blockers + Gates on adjacent walls. [Note: Corners gates would be rare]
Model B — Gate Switches will be inside the exit area + Gates spawn on the same wall but are distant from each other.
Model C — Switches are separated from the gates + Gates can spawn on any wall with no distance requirement
Model D — Your suggestion to balancing gate spawns
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We need a stun validation!
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@Mandy said:
This is a known bug.
It's the new Huntress buff!
Not really, just trying to have some humor! It's a bug, I had it on Pig!
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2440472#Comment_2440472
Certainly. it feels like a pretty huge loss that a character pretty iconic for introducing threatening mobility into RE as whole has literally 0 mobility abilities.
It would be cool if he had a RPG, could be worked into DBD actually:
- When at Mutation lll, can switch to a single use RPG with limited mobility.
- Any survivor directly hit with the RPG is put into the dying state. Otherwise survivors caught in the explosion will be thrown to side, putting them into Deep Wounds.
- Survivors put into Deep Wounds with a RPG can only be mended by teammates.
- After using RPG, Nemesis returns to Mutation ll.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2442201#Comment_2442201
What I'm also saying is that the Entity's clicking when it blocks objects will also be present as well or some sort of sound tipoff if that makes sense
Yeah, that won't be there, it will be similar to No Way Out — it only gets blocked if its touched within that time frame! 😄
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@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2441593#Comment_2441593
That might make your hexes too noticeable.
I didn't see your totem and boom, I just see comic spider protecting a totem I wouldn't have seen normally.
Just give totems a gun that shoots survivors when they cleanse them
It wouldn't be noticeable, it just happens with generators because they are already noticeable and supposedly should be since they aren't meant to be hidden — they are your objective!
Totems being blocked won't be noticeable because they aren't supposed to noticeable.
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@SaltyNooty said:
Well, the question and discussion are somewhat simple but let me go into depth. Would you rather be killed by a killer or sacrificed and why? Me? I'd rather be sacrificed than killed in honesty. Being Killed by the killer is just really disrespectful to me and somewhat ruins my mood. Like if the killer consciously chooses you to get killed by their hands in a horrifying manner; I take it as somewhat disrespectful if it's not toxic, just hook me already.
Take this for example. Just a minute ago, I DC'd from a match and got a 30-minute Penalty. Mind you, there were two blood party streamers so I could've gotten AMAZING BP from that, but the real question is 'why.' Why did I DC? Firstly, the map was RPD; which I absolutely despise but because my teammates were great, I didn't sell and I went to put on my A-Game. Everything is going well, I was being super evasive, doing gens and totems; All until the killer spots me and OUTRIGHT IGNORES EVERYONE ELSE.
He tunnels me and then slugs me. Now mind you, this guy had an Ebony Mori + Rancor and I was his obsession. Now, in honesty. I don't know WHY he didn't hook me and then kill me but he slugs me for 2 gens and no one came to pick me up. After I was downed and recovering, he went after other people, and as the gens are done; Adrenaline pops off so I'm back on my feet followed by the killer chasing me throughout the entire map while my teammates open the exit gate.
Another good reason why I hate RPD is that I can never memorize the areas of pallets, so I run to the rooftop; loop him for a bit then start using Locker strat where I dodge hits. Eventually, he grabs me out of one; drops me, and tries to Kill me. I outright DC'D and everyone escaped. For me, i couldn't say GG nor anything else cause i got slugged and no one came to pick me up while this guy was just going about his business
That might sound like a bit of a vent but it's not, it's more reason to explain why I'd rather be sacrificed than killed. What about you?
Apparently you picked neither and selected the secret third option to DC.
Shame on you.
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@Freddy96 said:
That would be hex undying all over again without being a hex.
Hexes are high risk high reward i don't get why some people think they should keep their hexes for the whole trial.
Even the new undying is borderline but definitely better than og one
If you're spending perk slots, especially additional hex perks, to keep your hex perk active longer, then they should last longer.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2441596#Comment_2441596
You can't without removing player agency and killing the game.
Tunneling and camping are not as endemic to the game's health as people claim, as the game continues to thrive.
People get emotional over it because it generally stems from them being unable to recover from the game's 'losing' state (on an individual level).
The same is true for killers that take flashlight saves, sabos, bodyblocking, DS,etc personally - sucks that you lost your down/hook, but survivors can and should be able to play how they want.
You're exactly right.
I believe the main reason why players get emotional about tunneling / camping is that you don't really get to play the game. If the killer wants you dead, you're going to die because the killer is supposedly 300% stronger than the survivor. Unless the killer you're facing is inexperienced, thus leveling the playing field, you're fighting a losing battle. The best you can do is put as much resistance to it as possible, so that your team can get generators done and escape.
Edit — Math