Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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@freddymybae said:
new update seems not good tbh
They are what they are; we won't know if they are good or not until we test them. I always withhold judgement until tested by us in the wild. I don't feel like taking a break, but clearly a lot of people have judging by the weirdness of the Ques over the last two weeks.
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I like the idea of the BP rewards and Rank reset, but I do kind of agree that the rewards need to be MUCH bigger. I think Rank-1 should be ONE MILLION and then scale down from there back to the 10,000 BP. The drop offs should be fairly radical to make these things mean something. But that is just me. It is their world; we just play in it. :)
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Never use the Shroud to split up the Survivors; it actually helps them by making it hard on the Killer to maintain Generator pressure, and increases the odds that 1+ will spawn on a Totem. :)
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I play Killer frequently, and I always use Totems. I can tell the kind of team I'm playing, i.e. good or bad in the first 30 seconds. Why? Someone on that team (usually more than one) is already on a Totem. They are spreading out on Generators and killing any Totem they pass on the way. Good teams have killed at least one of my lit Totems in the first minute of the game even when they didn't get lucky enough to spawn on top of it.
There is a direct correlation in the success rate, i.e. whether I get my butt kicked by the Survivors (or only get a draw) and their spending time killing those Totems. And you know what, these same Teams are bringing up the Generators extremely fast. So, killing my Totems has not taken anything away from their main objective. Having seen it done (and when I play Survivor done it myself) I know why. They are working smarter, not harder.
There are four Survivors and only five Totems. Nearly every Survivor, particularly if they are splitting up to maximize Generator efficiency at the start of the game, will see a Totem as they cross the map. If they stop and kill it (lit or unlit) on the way, minimal time is lost and the majority of Totems are gone within the first minute. Then they jump on Generators and I cannot pressure four different Generators at the same time. Against teams like this I usually see the first three Generators come up within two minutes on average, and certainly 3-4 within three minutes.
Some of these teams (probably half of them at least) are SWF, but that doesn't change the fact that the "start" of the game provides them very little info. It is the manner in which they start, a specific strategy. The good Solo teams do this too. The first minute or so of the game may be the most important minute because it sets the tone for the entire first half of the game. What do I want as Killer? I want 3-4 of the Survivors to jump on one Generator (fast for that Gen but inefficient for the match). This means they are not finding Totems, they are not getting into position, and when I find them I get all to nearly all of them under pressure. Believe it or not, the temptation for a fast 1st Generator is so strong that even Red Ranks sometimes make this mistake. Why do I digress? It bears on Totems. They aren't getting done this way.
One of the most ironic things (unintended I'm sure) is that the Killer has an offering called the Shroud of Separation. Only Potatoes put it in because it is the biggest boon to Survivors in the game. It starts them all separated, and that maximizes Generator pressure on the Killer. It also vastly increases the odds of one or more of them spawning on Totems. Are you starting to see what I'm suggesting? The maximum efficiency versus speed is for two Survivors, and no more, to get on one Generator while the other two go find their own to start or get on one far away and do the same thing. The maximum efficiency period is all Survivors spread out to different generators quickly and kill Totems on the way.
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@freddymybae said:
Many survivors say they love playing against Myers trapper wraith pig clown because they are bad killers but if they face a nurse spirit Freddy hag they are boring unfun unfair
I don't know about that. I am pretty devastating most of the time playing Myers and most people (the majority) seem to have a good time. While I agree there are certain people who are only nice when they when, and nasty when they lose.... most Players are better sports than that and can enjoy the game win or lose.
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They don't need to remove anything. What needs to happens is that Solo Que and Team Que need to be separated. People will likely play in both, Team when they can coordinate with friends, and Solo when they can't. Additional objectives and perhaps an extra Perk could be unlocked for the Killer versus Teams. The Solo Que won't show any identifying info on Survivors until AFTER the match to prevent Comms from being setup on the fly.
Balancing the SWF with objectives and bonuses for the Killers who fight them is better than trying to balance Solo and SWF at the same time using Perks. The reason this current approach is flawed because anything that slightly slows down a SWF hits Solo 10x as hard. In the end, distinct Ques is the only solution. We do NOT need to get rid of SWF, but we do need them balanced separately from Solo.
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@KateMain86 said:
Franklin's Demise is at the very top of my list of things I do not like about this game. Every time I go up against a killer that uses it I literally just feel like giving up. I have never had a fun or interesting match against this perk. I never have enough time to retrieve my item because after you get hit you have to either lose the killer in a chase or get unhooked quick enough to get the item back and in both situations I lose my item most of the time. I am so hesitant to play anything above a yellow item in fear that its just going to get deleted with franklins.
I think this perk needs to have some changes. Instead of knocking the item out of your hand, make the item unusable for a short amount of time. How about 30 seconds or even a minute? That way you at least have a chance to use the item and escape with it rather than having to worry about trying to recover it again.
While I agree losing items can be annoying, it is hardly the end of the world. The Toolkits barely make a dent in Generators, and your team can still heal you. Other items can be found on the map, and it is completely possible to survive a match without the slightest bit of gear. I can tell you from experience, that far too many Survivors focus on the junk and will come back for worthless items again and again only to get downed. Unless you are coming back for a Key, a Rainbow Map, or a Toolkit with a New Part in it... let them go. Get on the Generators.
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@RubypartiX said:
Hello everybody, fairly new player Ruby here. Me and one of my buddies were planning on doing some custom games but both of us are way too lonely and have no friends that have DbD, so i decided to post this here. We are looking for 2 but 3 people at best. Can be any ranks, but 12 to 8 average would be the best way to go about it, this is manily because of my lack of skill. Crossplay is on for both of us and we are on PC. As long as comms are existing in some form it is totally a-ok for non-PC players to join aswell. Thank you all who took the time and energy reading this! I'll look into the replies when the opportunity allows
I'm always willing to help, but my Survivor Rank runs between 5-8 in the Solo Que. I'm happy to play if you need numbers. I'm also happy to play Killer, assuming you need a Killer that moderates their play to match your play level. I don't mind being a Killer Bot to help if you don't have one.
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I often take Self-Care AND a Med-Kit simply so I can get the speed boost for healing. I think running off in a corner to self-care is a poor choice, and would only be self caring if I had no better options. I don't think it is a bad Perk; I think people don't understand optimal use of it.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856590#Comment_1856590
Ah so you're saying that my region (SE Asia) is actually just having a killer shortage, there actually isn't a killer shortage problem in general.
Well that makes sense. Do you think that killers are bored with the game and leaving though? For other reasons other than difficulty.
I just think (and have experienced) these things run in cycles. I wouldn't suggest reading too much into it. Sometimes the Ques will be longer and sometime shorter. My advice if you find one is a shorter wait than the other, play that one for a bit until it shifts. And if you are impatient, and you have friends, throw a custom game together. That option is available 24/7 with ZERO wait time. :)
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I agree with you; it is a crackpot theory. Players get bored for all sorts of reasons, but the most common one is isn't difficulty. It could be the new content simply isn't impressive currently. The Twins didn't thrill a lot of people. There are regions where there is no delay, so that also scuttles your theory. Ques get faster and slower all the time. I notice mine are affected by the time of day.
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I survive just fine, and I never run DS. I consider it a wasted Perk slot.
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Technically as long as you as a group have options, he isn't holding it hostage. If you all were gone, he would 100% be holding the game hostage because she can't do anything. However, since you are still there things can advance. My advice, open and leave... and have her record to see if he keeps doing it.
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Seriously? Whine... whine.... and more whine. If only I had some cheese. Now you guys got an issue with DH too?
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@GannTM said:
I just sang through the whole thing. This is so golden 😂
I'm glad you like it. I can't take credit. There are so many parodies poems of Lions, and Tigers, and Bears, oh my... that I just rebuilt some into a DbD version.
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I used to hate Cold Wind, since I play Myers, but now that I play the Spooky variety of Michael I actually prefer it over the old west or Crotus where I can be seen coming a mile away. The corn doesn't stop my wall hack, and I actually can sneak up pretty easily. :)
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@AggressiveFTW said:
Do you agree with my claim?
No, I don't agree. I get very satisfying play out of him as he is now. Could he use a tweak? Sure. All Killers get them from time to time. I've made suggestions myself. Fun and satisfaction don't come from your Killer choice. They come from you. Even if Myers were weaker than he is now, I would still play the OG. My satisfaction comes from the challenge, not the power.
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I play a lot of Myers, still. Even though I now dabble in the other Killers, I still come back to the OG more often than not. Do I think he is still viable? Yes. Do I think he could benefit from a slight tweak? Sure. I'm not so sure Myers is the problem so much as the Killers who are now better versions of him probably need a tweak back down. I know, blasphemy for a Killer main to say, but I said it. Ghostface and Oni do have things on me, but I'm not so certain I need a turbo charge to them, or they need a tweak back down to me; just saying.
However, playing Devil's Advocate, I do think there are a couple of changes that would be solid. Some are to his basic kit, but most of them apply to his Add-On(s). While Myers does have some of the best ones in the game, he also has a majority of them that are never used and utterly useless. Consider all those fragments of glass, why would you ever use them? Statistically you will have a Scratched Mirror or Vanity Mirror on hand if you really want to go the wall hack route. Why would you ever take subpar add-on(s) for this feature. Anyway, let me suggest the following:
- Myers never runs out of Stalk potential. In other words, the Survivors don't run dry, or their reserve build back up after being depleted. I think coding would be easier to just have them never run out, but I can see the logic in making sure one bad Survivor doesn't get him to Tier-3. That is why I suggest that after a Survivor has been drained down, they will start gaining it back up, allowing Myers supply, although not always on demand.
- Allow him to gain more Stalk if there are more Survivors in his range and view. That is pretty straightforward.
In regards to his Add-Ons:
- Vanity Mirror: Myers starts at Tier-2, and still can never get to Tier-3. Wall hack exactly as it is now.
- Tombstone Piece: Adjust this so that it unlocks his first Mori at (3) Hooks, and then another Mori for each Hook after that. It no longer has the requirement for being in any particular Tier. These Mori can be used on anyone whether they have been hooked or not, and still happen on the run exactly as they do now.
- Judith's Tombstone: It now unlocks the Mori against anyone that has been hooked at least once, but never allows Myers to leave Tier-1. *In short, make this one like the now gone Mori types, but keeps him slow.
- Glass Fragments: Replace them with something else or give them different powers. Given that Myers is a M1 Killer who relies heavily on stealth, I suggest having Add-On(s) which weaken and/or counter Perks like Spine Chill. Likewise, you could alter some to help lower or hide the sound of his clomping feet or breathing.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1854924#Comment_1854924
I agree with most of what you say, I have fun playing this game most of the time and for me playing a game is about having fun and being able to actually play the game. I’ve played many other computer games and I have fun basically every time I play it because it’s designed in a way to allow you to have fun. Rocket league for example, a game I play where I’ve never had a game where I can say it wasn’t fun. I’ve been absolutely destroyed in games but I can still play the game, have fun and learn. The thing with camping is it’s completely out of your control as a survivor. There’s nothing you can do if a killer wants to camp and ruin a game. Now imagine getting facecamping games multiple times in a row? If you still think you would have fun then damn I wish I could be entertained so much by doing nothing, I wouldn’t even need to play games anymore.
The last part I disagree with, it is someone’s job to make the game fun, and that is the developers of the game. I’m sure even you agree that facecamping can make the game boring for every player in that match and doesn’t benefit anyone. So why shouldn’t something be done about. And yeah most people on this forum just whine and cry for literally anything, but at the same time a complaint doesn’t need a solution with it to be constructive, just pointing out something that could be improved is without having a suggestion is still constructive
Not really, no; I don't agree. I feel getting a Survivor off the hook under the nose of a Squatter (what I call face campers) is a challenge in and of itself. I assure you it can be done. I've been that Killer at the end of the game when the rest opened the gates and came back to get their last teammate. I've been a Survivor who unhooked someone and took the protection hit and provided the Borrowed Time. Is it easy? Hell no. Is it fun? Yeah. It is just another challenge, and a hard one at that.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1853449#Comment_1853449
I agree with this and of course people will camp and be toxic and ######### like that if the game allows. Don’t hate the player, hate the game (or developers of the game). But that’s the main issue, it’s a game that’s meant to be fun and if there’s aspects that can make the game terrible and boring to play surely that should be changed and would it be changed if people didn’t complain. Cod had a multiplayer map where the spawns were really bad so everyone was getting spawn killed a lot, people complained and guess what, the game developers changed the game so that this bad experience of being spawn killed doesn’t happen anymore. The main issue isn’t the people doing it, because let’s be honest most humans are dicks and will always take advantage of whatever they can. The issue is that nothing is done about something in the game that ruins the fun and experience people have playing it. Imagine the devs made a couple infinite loops that ruined the game for killers because you literally can’t do nothing about it. Would you not complain or just say, oh it’s part of the game can’t do anything about it
I guess where you and I differ is that the game IS fun for me. I play both Killer and Survivor. I run into the same things you do. I deal with them. I believe it is that our expectations are fundamentally different. I don't believe that any game is fun. You bring the fun with you. If you accept the parameters of the game, get down with the challenge, and don't let it tilt you. The fun is in the journey, not the destination. We all have goals of course. We all want to be the best, but those of us who have the most fun, aren't only getting our enjoyment from feeding the ego. I enjoy a game I lose, even when I'm camped, tunneled, and given the Mori. I know those things exist. I know the risk.
For example, in the real world, every person who free climbs, climbs mountains, etc. knows that at any moment a simple mistake can kill them. They know they even when they do everything right, the mountain might still kill them. They climb the mountain because it is there. Do you follow? In the real world, my sport of choice is Fencing. Tournaments for Fencing are kind of a grab bag, not unlike Dead by Daylight. To maintain your rating you must constantly be competing and winning in tournaments that have other Fencers with the desired rating. What this means is really good Fencers often have their ratings slip simply because of not having the time to maintain it. So you might end up competing against a bunch of beginners or someone who once earned medals. Do you follow? One doesn't throw down one's blade and stomp off the strip screaming about the unfairness of it all. You put your head down and say, damn straight, I get to take on this legend!
I don't believe it is anyone's job to make the game fun for you or for me. I bring my own fun. Hopefully, we will all have fun (win or lose) for love of the game itself. Do I always agree with the DEV? No. I submit suggestions from time to time, but I don't come to whine about things. I suspect that keeping the game as balanced as possible is MORE important to those whose jobs rely on it than it is to me (or any Player). That is their concern. I control the things I can control. There are Campers in the game? I work on how I will deal with them; it doesn't involve venting here. There is a difference between a rant, screed, grief, shaming, and actual constructive suggestions. Sometimes you might be saying the same thing, but it is all in the wording. Delivery matters. I don't believe for a second most of the damn posts here about Camping, Tunneling, NOED, or the Mori are really directed at the DEV. They are just people throwing a tantrum and hoping to grief/shame other Players.
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@DeceptivePastry said:
I've been trying to get a few friends into this game. At high ranks you run into a lot of face camping, we all know this. This isn't usually a big deal in terms of winning the game, but what is the suggestion you always see for countering it? Gen rush. Sure the other 3 still "win". But it is really lame for the person who only gets to sit and watch from the hook after playing for 2 minutes and gets barely any BP. It's also usually the newer friends who end up being the victims. I tell them it isn't as big of a deal later on but it can be very discouraging for new players and BT only goes so far.
Face camping already hurts killers in terms of winning and in BP but newer players may not be aware or may not care, they just want to get a kill. Tunneling is a tougher problem to deal with but for face camping, why not just make it so that if the killer stays within a certain radius around the hook for say 20-30 seconds, the hook progression freezes until they are a certain distance away. They can have some sort of indication to let them know this is happening. The distance/time specifics can be worked out to minimize hurting people who are just chasing somewhat near the hook, but that is the general idea.
Or hell, since this has been a problem for years now, at the very least give the player a safety pip if the killer has spent 50-75% of the players hook duration standing next to it because it's not like they've really had a chance to get points (Even ranks <16 should have some protection from immediate face camp).
I can understand your frustration; we have all been where you are now. There are a couple of things I wanted to comment on. Mandy pretty much said all the important stuff, so I'm not going to reiterate her wisdom. Instead consider:
- No, Squatting (what I call face camping) is not common in the potent Ranks. It is pretty common in the Potato Ranks, but not so much after. New Killers are desperate to get at least one Kill and don't really know anymore than new Survivors. They don't know how to find them. They don't know how to mind game them. For them, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. Something is better than nothing in their mind. Sadly, this is the opposite of the truth. Squatting (again, what I call face camping) is detrimental to Killers long term as they are giving up precious time and pressure. What is worse they are not getting practice in hunting, mind games, or LOOPING. These are key skills that are not being improved while they continue to squat on one unfortunate Survivor.
- Time is the most precious resource Survivors have in the game. Squatters give you free time. Use it. Keep in mind that if you are getting sat on by a Killer you are doing the most important thing you can for your team. You are letting them get Generators up. Perhaps they will have time to come get you, perhaps not. But the TEAM is winning.
- This is a 4v1 game, and it was never expected for all the Survivors to get out, nor for the Killer to always get a 4K. Naturally every individual would like to survive the match, and it is a given that the Killer wants to get as many of you as he/she can. You must go into every game expecting to die, so that you aren't worrying about it constantly. Accept it so you can get on with the real work. You will get better (and so will those you introduce) and survival will become more and more common. Set realistic expectations and long term goals, i.e. goals which happen over the course of all your games. If I find I'm in a match with a Squatter, I do the best I can for my team but if I'm about to go down and I KNOW I'm going to get camped, I head into the hinterland of the map (where there are no Generators or ones already done) so that I'm taking the Killer as far away from the others as possible. I take pride in making sure that if I die, the others get out. That is how you have to look at Survivor. If you are not a team player, you should be playing Killer more. Survivor, if you want to be good and win more often, means you (and your teammates) have to be about the TEAM first. The old Football saying, "there is no 'I' in team" is very appropriate in this context.
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Buckle up because what I'm going to say is going to sound harsh. It isn't mean-spirited or intended to make you feel bad, but it is the plain, simple truth. You are being unrealistic in your expectations that your first game as Killer would be anything other than abject failure. Everyone has to pay their dues, and you simply haven't gotten started. You want to know how to deal with mean Survivors? Kill them. That's it. Don't do this silly nonsense of trying to balance your play to be a "nice" Killer. You can't learn to play by juggling variables out of the idiotic Survivors Rules for Killers. You play the game, practice, and kill them. Once you get great at slaughtering them, then you can afford to be generous and nice whenever you feel like it. You don't know enough to do that yet, nor is there any reason you should be doing it.
Why would you care if you get moronic salt/hate from the Survivors you beat (or lose to) at the end of the match? Those are just nameless, faceless squawking voices on the internet. Don't look at the after game chat if you are so fragile that some thirteen year old surrounded by cold, three day old pizza can tilt you by saying "GG EZ" or even more hateful garbage. Nothing requires you to interact with Survivors at all beyond inside the match. Do you get my point? If you do insist on reading it and engaging with them, you need to thicken up your skin. My advices is:
- Simply say GG and ignore anything impolite they say.
- Or be extremely overly enthusiastic and cheerful also appearing to not understand their salt. They hate this.
- Or say something like, "YES! Let me taste the delicious salt of your tears."
You sound way to driven by the demons of external validation. You care too much about what other people think. Your self opinion should be governed by fiat, i.e. yourself. Nobody likes the bad sportsmanship that is on display when people get salty. But there is a percentage of the population that are always going to be like that, whether you place nice or as ruthless and mean as humanly possible. Since you are going to do the time, whether you do the crime or not, you might as well just write all of that off. If you want to play Killer, PLAY Killer. Play hard. Learn to be the best, and once you are there you can revisit the notions of wanting to be generous.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Personally it doesn't bother me. But In these forums there's been enough complaints. Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer. Ruin and Tinkerer are fine but Undying is gonna get changed. So how would you change it. Here's what I've heard in the forums and here's my conclusion on has been said.
1. The Aura reading will be removed
2. There'll be a timer between a hex perk getting moved to another totem I'd say Q&Q timer to give survivors a brief time where they can fix a gen before the Ruin returns.
My take on the eventual Undying change. Say your proposed changes below.
Well.... I probably wouldn't if the current Solo and SWF being in the same Que stays the same. However, if they were broken into two Ques, where SWF could have additional objectives added and an additional Perk unlocked for the Killer when fighting in that Que, a LOT of the Perks which are strangling Solo could be reworked. If the two Ques were broken up, I would rework Undying as follows:
UNDYING:
- Undying is no longer a Hex Perk. It is a Perk which modifies Totems.
- Undying can move each distinct Lit Totem once, and only once. Thus if you had Ruin and Haunted Ground, you could each of them would be moved once to an available unlit Totem if any are available. Thus, you never have to kill the same Totem more than twice, regardless of how many unlit remain.
- Starting to CLEANSE (not just moving near) a Totem will reveal the Survivors aura for as long as they continue working on it. The Aura will remain for (3) seconds after they stop at Level-1, (5) seconds after they stop at Level-2, and (10) seconds after they stop at Level-3. If the Totem is totally destroyed, the persisting Aura does not apply.
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@SpaghettiYOLOKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1853449#Comment_1853449
I agree with you. But since the game is balanced around no comms, wouldn't you say that survivors using comms are against the rules of the game? Devs have explicitly stated that is how the game is balanced because they wanted an immersive experience. Granted, they've also acknowledged that people use comms, but still state they're not officially adding comms to the game. That's not what the game is. So by your logic, those survivors are playing outside of the rules, yes?
Other than that, I agree with absolutely everything. I played against many SWFs today and the game gets laughably survivor sided in those instances. Still, I recognized areas where I was doing quite a few things wrong. Did I get annoyed at the blatant disrespect that comes with a SWF? Of course. Did I camp people? Only when the gens were done. Because now that hook is going to be a prime spot for people to be. And with SWFs, I already assume one is at a door when the last gen pops and sure enough, there usually is.
But I'm not complaining about toxic behavior so the devs change something. I would like them to balance the game to account for comms. I think that's the main problem. People really downplay the amount of SWFs playing. Even if it's just a two man, that's an advantage for those two people. But I mostly run into 3-4 man SWFs and it's almost always a sweat fest. It's made me better in areas and it's made me better with every killer. Really, I just want certain perks adjusted on the survivor side to match or be applied at the same time to their killer counterparts. That right there is a huge problem and creates major imbalance and lately, it's been survivor sided.
The fact that they're already talking about nerfing Undying is a bit ridiculous in my eyes, but it is what it is. Keys and Moris should have been nerfed at the same time. Pop and DS should have gotten the same nerf at the same time, plus DS shouldn't be active if the survivor does any offensive action like a gen, healing someone else, healing themselves, or cleansing a totem. No tunneling is going on in that moment, so why keep it? One could make the argument if a killer hits someone, Pop should deactivate, but what if they're hitting someone off a gen they're about to kick? So I'd say no to that adjustment to Pop. But that's just my opinion.
The SWF's 5th Perk: Comms is problematic. If you go back through my history you will find that I'm a strong advocate for breaking Solo and Team into two different Ques. I think it would be win/win for Players and Behavior. I think most people would play in both Ques, i.e. with their friends when available, and Solo when not. See below:
SOLO QUE
- No more than two Survivors may enter a Lobby together, as a 2-Person SWF won't tilt the game.
- No Survivor information (identities) will be shown until the end of the match to prevent setting up Comms on the fly.
TEAM QUE
- Teams must either be 3-Person or 4-Person, and no Solo will be added to round out a 3-Person Team.
- An additional Generator is required to power the Generators, i.e. a 3-Person team will need (5) Generators, and 4-Person team will need (6) Generators.
- The Killer will have an additional Perk Slot unlocked for games in this Que only.
CUSTOM GAME
- Nothing changes for custom games as they are fine, and already let you play with your friends.
Once Solo and Team are split into different Ques, the problematic Perks which were created and made very strong to help balance the SWF imbalance could be tweaked and made more reasonable so they no longer strangle Solo. In other words, the extra objectives and Killer Perk will balance the SWF so the Perks don't have to carry that load. That would be great as any Perk designed to balance the SWF Gen-Rush was 10x for Solo.
Moreover, having a Team Que opens up many lucrative opportunities for Behavior. See below:
- Custom Cosmetics so Teams can have matching jackets, outfits, logos, etc. can be sold.
- Team Ques are a basis of being setup for DbD run Tournaments which can cost like a Rift Pass and have prizes.
So going back to your original question, do I see SWF as cheating? No. Since the DEV had already given it their tacit approval, it is just part of the game. I suspect they know it is impossible to police in the current Que setup, and so regardless of what they really think, that is the only option they have unless the adopt a suggestion like mine. While I think SWF abide by the letter of the law, I do not think they abide by the spirit of it. I think they are a problem. I think it should be addressed in a way that allows people to play with their friends, but not gain a competitive edge. In any event, since SWF currently is not against the rules as set by Behavior, playing in one does not make those within it "bad sports."
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It is another one of those Perks that can be useful in Solo, but is a downright POWERHOUSE in a SWF. In a team, you make sure you get the earliest possible, safe unhook and have it on tap. Then you go about your normal game, working hard with your team. If necessary you take a protection hit and lead the Killer as far out into the middle of nowhere and away from Generators still needing power as possible. Your Team will know they don't need to come get you. The Killer, particularly if it mid to late game might very well sit on you a bit, i.e. short range patrols, minimal camping. If the gates are powered he will almost certainly camp a bit and when the gates are opened and one or two come semi-close for him to be attracted, you get off an go. While I normally play Solo, I always run this Perk on those rare occasions I play with my friends in a SWF. It has won us a LOT of games.
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@Killmaster said:
5th perk slot could be locked to bond, kindred or an aura reading information perk to being solo survivors on the same level as swf.
No. What should happens is that there should be a Solo Que and a Team Que. The number of Generators required to power the gates for Team should be increased by one. The Killer should get a 5th Perk unlocked. Then all the current Perks that were created to try and balance the SWF should be tweaked back down to still be worthwhile but not a death sentence to the Solo.
No Survivor information should show to anyone (including Survivors) until the end of the match. This will prevent trying to setup Comms on the fly and turn a Solo Que game into a SWF.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The next time someone has the guts in post-game chat to call me a garbage killer who needs to get good, I'm gonna do exactly what I did tonight: pick up the Twins and slug everyone in the next match. I like to call it a revenge match. You may say "but those survivors didn't do anything to you!" You can't fault me for this because there is no rematch button, so it must be a new set of survivors I face, and also it's part of the game and I can play that way if I want. If other people get to use those excuses, so do I. So I'm gonna get good, or "do better" you might call it. I'm gonna slug for the 4, proxy the hook, maybe make someone DC in the process, and I don't care if I depip or black pip because I WON. That's what "getting good" looks like, so be careful what you wish for.
I know I'm late to this party, but why wouldn't you already be using the Twins to slug everyone? Why would you need someone to be obnoxious to you before you give 100%? I'm not being sarcastic or snarky; I'm pointing out a flaw in your logic. If you are playing Killer, you should already be giving the toughest, best game you can.
As to the post game chat, why bother reading it at all? If it is going to tilt you just hit continue or upgrade the second the match ends and go on to the next one. Or you can write down the names of those you see in the end chat that you don't like, used hacks, foul language, or just rubbed you the wrong way. Keep that little list of shame next to you when you play. Then, when one of those names shows up in the Lobby, you can decide to leave or vent your frustrations however you like. Your opponents will eventually cycle back around.
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@Chrisko said:
Which perk is the one that Killers can't live without?
As I understand the term "crutch perk", it is a perk that people can't live without and tend to rely on the most. It is currently the most popular perk for killers. Don't take the term personally.
Note: If you want to talk crap about survivors, start another discussion. No whatabout-ism please...
No it isn't. None of the Perks are "crutch" when it comes right down to it. Next subject?
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To further address this issue, let me talk about some other games. I will do so in broad terms to be polite to them. There are some war games that have Snipers. These guys and gals can get into position and literally kill people the second they try to step out of the building in which they spawned. In some cases, you can be killed the moment you spawn. There are games where you can be blocked and locked and held down for hours at a time. There are games where you can build up your peaceful little farm, never harm a soul and along comes some black-hearted raiders who kill your sheep and cows, burn your crops, rob you blind, and then as an afterthought, kill you.
All of these games have one thing in common; they are PvP games. They rely on the agency of the Players. Rules are clear, and everyone knows that bad things can happen to you at any time. The games aren't at fault, because you CHOOSE to play them even if you don't like getting a bullet in the brain every time you spawn. Those black-hearted raiders aren't at fault for being black-hearted raiders. You knew they existed. You knew it could all fall apart when you decided to be a defenseless farmer. You CHOSE to play that game. You CHOSE your role. You rolled the dice. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game where some Players take on the roles of people desperately trying to Survive the onslaught of brutal murderers, and some people play the horrific Killers. We all know that the Killers mean harm. We all know that they can choose to camp you, tunnel you, slug you, and/or Mori you. We know they don't have to be fair about it. There is no Geneva Convention in the Entity's Realm. Survivors don't owe Killers anything other than playing by the rules, and vice versa. That means you can click your flashlights to be annoying, body block, choose Survivor friendly maps, and do your crazy SWF builds, using communication outside the game too. The Killer is going to decide how he/she feels it is best to try to destroy you and they are not obligated to any unofficial morays you want to apply to them.
So let me repeat, the only thing people should be remaining true to is:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spikes.
- Don't quit; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
And for the record, giving people grief (or trying to shame them) because you feel they camped or tunneled you is not being gracious in defeat. It would be the opposite. Nobody loves being camped, tunneled, or left on the ground for long periods of time. It means that even if things are going well for the group, it is not going well for you personally. That is something we all endure. Some of us accept it is part of the game and get on with our lives. Some of you just can't stop whining about it.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1853174#Comment_1853174
That’s one of the most confidently incorrect posts I’ve seen on here, and there’s many bad ones
Let me explain why my post is not incorrect. We all know the game. We SHOULD all know the rules. Players who are playing by the actual rules, are by default not behaving in an inappropriate way. If you don't like the rules of the game, find another one. The only people being "bad sports" are those who understand the rules but choose to ignore them and try to set their own unofficial rules, i.e. the Survivors Rulebook for Killers made famous on Samination. Trying to grief and shame people for playing by the rules simply because you can't handle it is the DEFINITION of being a BAD SPORT.
In short, your entire argument is backwards. People should worry less about what other Players are doing that is within the rules and MORE about what agency and choices they have to deal with it.
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@Starshadw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/217112/the-facecamping-is-getting-really-tiring-now
Just because something is "legit" doesn't means it's not toxic and poor sportsmanship.
In terms of possible mechanical solutions - implement a loss of bloodpoints if a Killer stays near a hooked survivor. That would help mitigate or even eliminate both facecamping and proxy camping, depending on the radius of the circle around the hooked survivor. If the player knew that standing there at the hook would cost them 100 bloodpoints every second, they'd be less likely to do so. Heck, they could do the same for slugged survivors - so a Killer who decides to facecamp/proxycamp a slugged survivor could suffer the same loss of bloodpoints.
There ARE possible mechanical solutions for most of the toxic behavior in the game, it's just a matter of whether the devs want to implement them.
Actually, that is exactly what it means. All a Player has to do to be a "good sport" is:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't quit; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
That's it. The word "toxic" has no meaning here because everyone tosses it around for whatever their personal hobby horse may be. Playing with the rules, is by definition, is meeting one of the plans of being a good sport. Your personal preferences have no bearing on this discussion.
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@Tsulan said:
Can we establish first what face camping is? Because they are some wild versions of it. Like long range face camping, when the hook isn't even inside the killers terror radius (not stealth killers) but dares to look into the direction of the hook.
Or hag placing a trap near the hook, apparently that also counts as face camping.
In my last 10 matches I had 1 insidious bubba who stood next to the hook. That's what I consider face camping.
What about the rest?
In my experience, Survivors tend to call anything camping where the Killer catches them at the hook, regardless of the reason. It is kind of silly, and self-serving. To keep things very clear and simple, me and mine use the following terminology:
- Squatting: The Killer stands at the Hook point blank to stare at the victim and try to deter/prevent any rescue.
- Lurking: The Killer is very close to the Hook, but hides from both the hooked and potential rescuers, often employing Perks.
- Camping: The Killer stays in the general vicinity, doing a series of short range patrols so they can return quickly to the hook.
Thus, me and mine can simply say, We've got a Lurker... or we've got a Squatter... or we've got a Camper... and all of know EXACTLY what we mean. It conveys all the important information. I mostly play Solo, because my friends and I can't get together that often. But when we do, we prefer terms that are more specific.
The simple truth is that the only way to encourage Killers to leave the area of the Hook entirely is to make it worth their while. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Thus, Killers either have to be getting a benefit in BP by leaving the area, or be provided with a direction to go. I've often suggested that Killers should earn a version of Bold advancement (not unlike Survivors do for staying in the Killer's Terror radius) for moving a certain distance from the Hook and staying outside of it.
In general, Killers tend to move away from Squatting once they are away from the Potato Ranks because it isn't an effective strategy. Lurking and Camping (as I define them) are niche tools and are always on tap depending on a match or the Killer's build. For example, Killers with the Perk: Insidious or some power via Add-on(s) might lurk nearby using the hook as bait. Some Killers like Hag and Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror+Boyfriend's Memo) will do the series of patrols using their respective powers to watch the Hook and return to it quickly to intercept. That is their thing. It is how they offset being slow.
Most of the bad things that happen to Survivors are the result of the choices of Survivors (themselves and their Peers). I know that sounds harsh, but it is true. There are ways to make safe rescues, and even snatch a Survivor right under the nose of a Squatter. It takes coordination and practice. Time is the most important resource Survivors have and like it or not, having one person do maximum time on the hook can be a godsend to the group that milk as much Generator time out of it as possible.
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@BasedMorlis said:
I'm all in for being able to force the endgame collapse to start. It's a perfectly fine part of the game that frankly, needs to stay. That being said, when there is only 1 survivor and the killer closes the hatch it makes it almost impossible to escape. On top of that, the number of times I as the killer have closed the hatch on a survivors face WHILE THEY ARE STANDING ON IT is stupid (I always let them open a door and escape when I do). The hatch will ONLY OPEN if there is 1 survivor remaining. If the killer closes that hatch, it should really open a door at random. It gives the survivor a chance and adds some risk to closing the hatch. On some maps the hatch is next to a door and if it opens that door, so be it. But the survivors deserve a chance.
Technically, it powers the Generators so YOU can go open a gate; this is more than you deserve. Asking for more is kind of ill-advised. Up to this point, you clearly didn't get the Generators up and you are the last person. That means you failed as a team. The game, kindly, opens the hatch to give you the option of getting out that way. If the Killer still beats you to the Hatch, the gates are now powered up to give you a "chance" to try and open one and get out. Just how many second chances do you think you rate? :)
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@TwistedJoke65 said:
Seriously? 15 minutes?
I dc at the end of the game because their being ######### and I don't feel like watching some tbaggers click their flashlight at me so I just dc, expecting a 5 minute timeout, and I get 15 minutes. When you only have an hour and a half to play 15 minutes is detrimental. I get 5 minutes but 15 come on
I'm not sure I understand? You were clearly having a rough game and not doing well against some aggressive Survivors, so you just quit and then were annoyed to find out you had a ban?
- You don't get 15 minutes for your first DC. You must have been doing more than just the one.
- We all have bad games. The only way to get better is to power through them.
- Don't give Bully Squads the satisfaction of quitting. Keep going till you kill them, or drive them out. If you want to be as obstinate as them you could simply walk around doing odd things.
I realize that you don't have a lot of time to play. We are all in the same boat. But quitting a game is Lose/Lose for you and Win/Win for the people you see as your tormentors. The longer they sit around trying to Bully you rather than doing their objectives and getting out is the longer you have to practice trying to Loop and or kill them. Their batteries are not endless. And if you chase them long enough you will get one. As painful as it is to do, suffering through a Bully Squad is good practice and they will eventually get bored and annoyed if they can't get you to quit. In the end, you get good and revenge is a dish best served cold. I LOVE getting Bully Squads these days. I collect the videos of where I pay back my early, learning stage with interest.
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The best DbD could pull off would be a parody group, an homage. As others have suggested, they are never going to allow their trademarked characters to be brutally murdered by serial killers. And even if they did, the cost to purchase them would be 100x greater than any licensed product already owned. Scooby Doo is a Gold Standard kids property.
Do I think it would be cool? Sure. Do I think it would ever happen? No. The closest thing you are ever going to see to that is the Supernatural episode where they appeared when Sam and Dean are thrown into the cartoon.
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The issue is they have been trying to balance the issue of SWF versus Solo with Perks. The problem is whatever Perk they put in that slows down and balances the SWF, devastates Solo. A new matching system will NOT address this problem. Like it or not, eventually, they will have to have a SWF Que and a Solo Que, so they can balance the game for the SWF Que with additional objectives and/or a 5th Perk unlocked for the Killer. Then they can rebalance the Perks so they don't strangle Solo.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851682#Comment_1851682
Yep. No need to force them into considering it to be primary via overbearing design.
Hey... you got no argument from me. If you go back to my original post you will see that I don't have a problem with it as it is now. I'm just tired of them complaining, clearly not GETTING that NOED is only a problem if they choose to make it a problem. My suggestion removes that as an option and makes it painfully clear that they can choose to deal with it or not.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851521#Comment_1851521
I am not accusing you that you lie or you exaggerate, but its very odd to say the least. In what region do you play?
I am of course also rank 1 as killer and i have many hours playing this role, and i pretty much never run into something like that, not even pre toolbox nerf. Other killer mains i know and i talk with might complain from time to time about hard games, but nobody has any of those hardcore games where they were more or less helpless.
You might be an extremly unlucky person or the region you play is full of tryhard tournament teams.
Do you stream? I would gladly watch you just to see those extreme games you have to deal with.
And no, I'm not a Streamer (yet). Sometimes I go to Youtube and put up interesting videos of Bully Squads who had the misfortune of pulling me, or people hacking. I don't generally put up videos of these kind of teams because they aren't doing anything wrong. It is just an unfortunate situation that the game is not balanced for them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851443#Comment_1851443
As it is now, if you see a Dull Totem, you don't have to cleanse it. because even if it becomes NOED, from a Team Perspective it's still a Secondary Objective given looping/Exit Gate/recovery/CarryHook times. You can still just choose to escape. NOED only really becomes a Primary Objective for the Survivor that gets hit during end-game. Other Players can simply choose to escape, or risk it and find NOED.
It's still smart to cleanse them, because you could be that unlucky duck, but it isn't necessary overall. They're a Secondary Objective.
Your change to NOED is certainly something that would make it a Primary Objective, but unfortunately it would make that one Perk far too overpowered. You'd need to make it a basegame effect. And IMO making it basegame would require far too much rebalancing.
As far as I'm concerned I think they lucked into a good design with the current Hex Totems.
And if so, then they have NO RIGHT to complain about NOED. Because THEY are choosing to consider it secondary.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851521#Comment_1851521
I am not accusing you that you lie or you exaggerate, but its very odd to say the least. In what region do you play?
I am of course also rank 1 as killer and i have many hours playing this role, and i pretty much never run into something like that, not even pre toolbox nerf. Other killer mains i know and i talk with might complain from time to time about hard games, but nobody has any of those hardcore games where they were more or less helpless.
You might be an extremly unlucky person or the region you play is full of tryhard tournament teams.
Do you stream? I would gladly watch you just to see those extreme games you have to deal with.
I have no idea. I'm in the Northeast Region of the US. I suppose it could also be a factor of what time of the day I play?
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What I would love is a personal Escape Rate, so I know at a given time what mine is versus the overall escape rate average. :) Something that shows me:
Best Escape Rate
Average Escape Rate
Worst Escape Rate
My Escape Rate
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851421#Comment_1851421
First things first: This scenario never happens in solo rounds, absolutly never. It almost never happens against SWF either. I had 1 game similar to that so far. And i play this game for many hours now.
Second: The game can not be ballanced around that, because you and almost everyone else would hate it. Ballance around the top 0,0001% or OP killer/op items/op addons would make you uninstall the game in less then a day, because you wont even survivor a single match anymore (or get a single kill) unless you bring in the broken stuff... Would be a very bad way to ballance a game.
And bringing back the old nurse is a very bad suggestion aswell. You do realise that good Nurse players still role 200+ 4Ks in a row... right? She is potentially still op as hell.
And last but not least: Killers are not hindered at all, they destroy survivors all the time. Killers win more often then survivors, on any rank by the way. Even on the very very top, where it is supposed to be easy for survivor, killer still hold the ground and get most of the time a decent outcome.
I beg to differ. It happens FREQUENTLY to me. I fight these kind of matches often. The difference is I don't complain about them and just kind of say MEH to myself and write down the names. I won't take matches from that list anymore. I have better uses for my time. It could be that I'm a Red Rank Killer. But I see a SWF not unlike the one discussed here at least once or twice a LONG day of playing. I see SWF that are a step or two below this (but still very tough) every day and at least every 3rd or 4th match.
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I'm going to give you MY trade secret for Spooky Myers on Midwich. It is a very simple thing.
- Enter the courtyard immediately and do a serpentine swing through it. Within five seconds you will pick up ALL of the Survivors and get their location. The size of your hack versus the size of the map allows you to use the Courtyard to locate everyone fast.
- Simply head for the most convenient ones, and BONUS if they all are together or in groups of two.
- Set priority to Generator Pressure. After a few you come out of nowhere constantly the second they get on a Gen will disrupt them.
Chances are you can grab someone right at the start. The key is you want them constantly paranoid and looking over their shoulders. With Midwich you can do this very easily if you are methodical.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850166#Comment_1850166
But that kinda means you need to wait for them, right? You can't really sneak up on them because on several gens you have a near pallet, window or plain sight. And when it comes to running the long circle... you basically have to hide in rooms and hope for survivors coming by
No. Midwich is great for Spooky Myers because you "intercept" not chase and not wait. You pick up the direction they are going, let them think you are following and them double back and intercept them going the other way, or drop on them from above.
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@Xyvielia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850557#Comment_1850557
Yeppers!
Surprisingly, killers leaving when their planned realm gets spoiled has happened far more than a few times.
Doc/ Legion also love offering up the Meat Plant
And I’m on console, so offering screen dodging is frequent: Billys/ Huntress leaving on Gideon & Hawkins, PH dodging Springwood & Haddonfield, Survivors backing out when they see Mary’s Letter flip.
Twins and Blight seem to not mind matches anywhere, but I rarely ever see them anymore anyway... go figure
I would think GF wouldn’t want to play Glenvale, but they always do
I never use GF, so I wouldn’t know tho
I play whatever map I get with Myers, even when they counter an Offering (I often roll the dice and don't put one in). I gotta learn to be able to play him on the big maps if I want to play him as often as I like. :)
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1851329#Comment_1851329
I could, but I am not harassing anyone, but this game is nonsense, no one will be insulted, this is the fault of the game, not those players.
Doesn't really matter whether you think you are blaming or shaming them or not. There are people who will look at that and simply add them to the list of people they will simply leave the Lobby when they see these names. :) That is why the DEV refuse to tell us when we are facing a SWF because they know a lot of people would simply not take the match assuming something "like this."
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850950#Comment_1850950
I'm not saying that cleansing Totems doesn't help you Survive, I'm saying that they are not necessary for escape. Generators are necessary. (barring The Hatch). Now, they certainly can be oppressive enough to make it so you can't complete generators, but they don't prevent you from escaping the way Generators do.
I suppose that you can argue that they become Main Objectives when it makes the Killer extremely powerful (such as the case with Devour Hope), but at the very least the Killer has to put in some effort to get that to work. With the proposed NOED, its trigger is literally the game progressing as normal, with no input from the Killer needed. At least the current NOED leaves the gates untouched.
That's the disconnect though. The moment the Killer selects a Perk that affects your odds of surviving by putting in those Totems, they have become a primary objective. Or, they should be. If you don't care about Ruin because the Killer isn't putting enough pressure on you, then that is on the Killer and you don't have to consider them Primary. However, if the Killer puts in NOED, and the DEV made a conscious choice not to inform you, then you better consider it Primary. So ask yourself why they did it that way? They want you to spend time on them. The more Survivors keep ignoring and choosing to NOT do them, the more Hex Totems of power are going to show up. Eventually the message will come through. My suggestion is to make it PAINFULLY apparent with a slight tweak to the Totem.
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@Animal_Mother said:
I've been away from competitive gaming for several years now. I've played at the highest levels in a few games, so I'm not unfamiliar with antagonistic bantering and stuff that usually comes from young, emotionally reactive males engaged in competition. But either things have changed dramatically in the last 10 years, or DBD just has an especially toxic playerbase.
I have about 60 hours under my belt in DBD so far. I'm definitely not a seasoned player. My survivor is purple rank now, and my noob killer is rank 17. But somehow, it seems I often get paired with teams of red survivors when I'm playing killer and red killers when survivor. I've noticed this type of behavior at all ranks, but it seems especially common in the red ranks.
For example, last night, I played as spirit with no perks or add-ons vs a survivor team consisting of a rank 1, rank 2, rank 8, and rank 9. After I beat them pretty handily, the rank 1 and 2 filled the chat with insults.
Rank 2: Nice spirit shitter
Rank 1: dogshit
Me: good play at end
Rank 1: playing spirit. lmao
Rank 2: spirit lmao
Rank 1: holy dogshit. you are a terrible player. uninstall and #########
Rank 1: do you know how easy it is to play spirit and not tunnel?
Rank 1: its really not that hard. ur just a terrible player
Me: I just started playing this game a week ago and crushed your team. I don't even have any perks or anything. I can't be that terrible. be happy with the blood points you got. Happy New Year. have a good night.
Rank 2: shut your spirit ass up. trash player. absolutely horrible.
I just left the chat after this. Perhaps I should just ignore the chat window and close the window quickly after each game in the future. I feel like most other online games don't have this chat feature, maybe for good reason? Does everyone else experience this type of stuff on a regular basis? Seems to be a pretty widespread and accepted behavior in this community. I know several major gaming companies have made anti-toxicity initiatives to try to address this behavior in other games. For other companies that haven't, I wonder the most effective way to curb this behavior.
They are bad sports, losers who are unable to face their own failures and thus say all that garbage in a desperate attempt to try and scapegoat anything or anyone else other than themselves. You have a lots of options:
- Ignore it utterly; pay it no attention or turn off the chat.
- Be painstakingly upbeat and cheerful and friendly as if nothing they said registers. That will annoy them.
- Say something like, "YES! Let me taste the salt of your delicious tears." Things like that annoy them too.
What you shouldn't do, for any reason, is try to defend yourself or engage them in an argument. There is no point. They are liars, who are doing the silliest thing of all, i.e. lying to themselves. There is no chance anything logical or reasonable will break through their self delusion. And for that matter, why give them any satisfaction at all? If you say nothing, they won't know if you heard their garbage or not. For all they know they are raging against nothing. If you are super friendly they will rage against that as you beat them again. If you clearly take an enjoyment from their salt, and try to egg on more they hate that; they don't like that you are in to it. No matter which of these three things you do, it is Win/Win. The most important thing is you have to let that stuff run off you like water. You have to immunize yourself against the demons of external validation. It is the sticks and stones lesson we should all have learned in Kindergarten.
Nobody hates bad sportsmanship more than me. I think these behaviors probably reflect how they behave in the real world too. In my experience, bad sports here are bad sports everywhere. Why should you care what such pathetic, wannabe losers think or say?
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@Boggartz said:
this killer is riduculous
I don't think he should be removed, but I do tend to think the two Chainsaw wielding maniacs that have Insta-Down all game should be slower. :)
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@TheStabbiNAngeL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850111#Comment_1850111
You know the bandwagoners only want the new new,and to live vicarious off you're hype (energy)
I assure you that I am very much alive. I play Spooky Myers pretty much all the time. :)