Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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@Nomporu said:
Because every lobby I'm in at red ranks as a solo is a complete unfun slaughter, too many strong killer perks when most of the survivor perks are pretty balanced.
The fact that perks like noed and insidious still exist in the state they're in is ridiculous.
If it's not a 4k, it's a salty bubba stood right in front of a survivors face and you have to sit there and accept your fate.
I don't believe you.
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I generally do not dodge lobbies. The only things that might cause me to leave one are:
- A real life event called me away (my gal telling me to take out the trash, phone call, whatever).
- I see someone on my "Black List." If someone uses hacks or lag spikes in a game with me I write their name down. If someone uses horrific hate speech, or says something like they hope my mother dies of cancer, I likewise write their name down. Why would I give such a person any of my time again? Why would I play against a hacker a second time?
- Lastly I might dodge a Lobby if I see a TTV person whose gimmick is being vile on his show, bringing his/her entourage to take advantage of exploits, and do the whole insulting thing, making fun of the Killer or Survivors. Most TTV people are not like that, but a few are utter filth. So I decide if I'm going to destroy and humiliate them to the point the content they get from me is problematic, or if I am just going to deny them any content from me. Depends on my mood.
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@bromshow415 said:
Not sure how many games I have played where the killer tunnels 1 person and then refuses to leave and go hunt anyone else. Whats even more frustrating is that even with kindred on players in the game don't seem to understand that if the killer is going to camp you, just complete your gens easy and escape with 3/4.
Is there some way to create a perk that while on the hook, if the killer is within 15 or 20 meters, gen progression for all survivors is increased by a certain percentage?
Just wondering.
Thanks.
There are already several Perks that assist with camping Killers, as well as some Add-on(s). Borrowed Time means they can run in even with the Killer close and unhook you and if you are hit again, you have Endurance. The unhooker (if damaged) can use the Styptic Agent to get the same Endurance. *I've always felt they should allow that agent used even when healthy to gain the Endurance and liquidate the Med-Kit for greater effect. There is the Perk: Camaraderie which allows a Survivor to get near you and extend the amount of time you can be on the hook. This in turn grants those others working Generators even MORE time to take advantage of the camping.
There doesn't need to be anything that further accelerates Generators. A Camper is giving up Generator Pressure already.
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I've always been of the opinion that my main man Myers doesn't need too much, just some slight tweaks to make his on par with any Killer and to deal with the more grotesque of his Add-on(s) in an interesting way. I'm going to start with the Add-on(s) changes in this case:
- Change the Tombstone Piece so that the Mori ability is no longer tied to Tier (or stalk), but rather to the number of Hooks. I would make the first Mori (against anyone) available at 4 hooks, and then gain one more per hook. This would prevent the piece from being a "gotcha" early due to some idiot giving up the stalk, and make the Add-on useful to all the different builds of Myers. Clearly the coded drop out of Tier-3 will not be necessary as it is no longer linked to Tier in any capacity.
- I would leave Judith's Tombstone as it is now because it hasn't really proven to be a problem.
- I think the Fragrant Tuft of Hair is fine as it is too.
- All the Damn Shards of Glass need adjustments. Let's be honest most of them are not used much. I think some of them (the higher end) could be changed so that they hide the Red Stain, and/or further shorten the Terror Radius.
- Scratched Mirror would stay the same as it is now (still slow).
- Vanity Mirror would change only in that Myers starts at 115% and doesn't have to Tier up, and cannot Tier up further.
- I agree that in Tier-1: Myers should either half the effective range of Spine Chill or negate it. *I favor HALF to be fair.
- I think Tier-3 Myers should be able to vault Pallets as well as have the faster window vault. This would provide just a hint more anti-Looping ability. It wouldn't be so much that he becomes OP, but certainly a step up from being a vanilla M1 Killer. This increase would make builds that go to Tier-3 provide the Insta-Down and anti-Looping, something the Scratch and Vanity Mirrors will never provide. The trade off isn't bad.
- I would make it possible for Myers to choose to Tier all the way back down to Tier-1, if he chooses. Doing so would require having to work one's way back up, but the benefits to playability for regaining Stealth have a purpose. Obviously the Vanity Mirror cannot do this, and the Scratch Mirror is this by default.
- I would have it that only so much can be stalked from a single Survivor but that they do regain evil within be stalked again later. The rate would have to be tested out. Likewise having more people together should allow Myers to stalk more at once rather than the cap currently.
This is just a summary, as I'm working on a full write up of the complete rework I would do. These are the highlights and the things that would most affect the overall play.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180398#Comment_2180398
If they locked items after 20 seconds to give a killer a chance to change perks still would be fine, in my opinion. Same with letting killers know its SWFs and I've been advocating for the SWFs thing for awhile now but had so much push back since most would dodge the lobby, causing higher que times.
Just give double the BPs for the trouble of facing them and I doubt anyone would dodge but at the end of the day, it's the devs that can make the final decision.
I'm not sure there would be anymore Lobby dodging than there is already. People have all sorts of ways (some correct and some incorrect) to gauge/guess whether they loaded in with a SWF. If people already think they can tell, they dodge. I think a level playing field (or the BP bonus you suggest) would go a long way to solving the issue entirely. My suggestion has always been to unlock an extra Perk Slot for the Killer whenever the get a 3+ SWF and test that out to see if it equalizes the intelligence advantage. Only by testing will we be able to tell if it is enough or not.
I think they should tell us when we face a SWF or more importantly when we don't because Solo suffer the brunt of the issue. Killers have to assume they are dealing with a hardcore SWF until proven otherwise or they can literally lose the game in the first two minutes. By the time I realize I'm not dealing with Seal Team SWF, I've already hobbled the average Solo team and totally demoralized them. At that point the damage is pretty much done. I'd like to know so I have the option not to come on like freight train. I'm still going to play to win, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be rattlesnake mean, and I will make sure those Solo get lots of points and practice. I will be more cavalier and take risks I wouldn't against a SWF, and in doing so I can experiment and learn, and they can possibly turn those risks into wins.
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@samsamsa7 said:
i play both survivor and killer, more of survivor because killers get treated like garbage. I don’t t-bag and i don’t flicker my flashlight because i know the unfairness of playing killer. So why is it that survivors feel the need to do it? It just gets very annoying and toxic. We are all trying to play a game and have fun try not to make it toxic.
Well there is another way to look at it, and profit from their behavior.
- Every T-bag is a loss of potential head start a Survivor gives up at a pallet or whatever.
- Every flicker of the flashlight eats a bit of battery.
- Someone clicking at you to chase them tells you exactly who NOT to chase.
While T-bagging is certainly unsportsmanlike, it is largely benign. The flashlight thing is just a tactic; you are the one letting it annoy you. Stop doing that and you will find the flashlight clickers to be a helpful tool. I advise purging the word "toxic" from your vocabulary and ignore anyone who throws it out willy-nilly. The word is entirely subjective and has no value anymore (if it ever did). It is a just a glittering generality, a term used to invoke an emotional response without any actual logic or support.
There are real things to get upset about in DbD but these are pretty tame. I once got called "toxic" by a Survivor because I didn't chase him; I ignored him the entire match until I killed the other three. He asked me why? I said, "because you wanted me to chase you, and kept clicking your flashlight at me." This answer infuriated him further. He said I purposely caused him to lose Pips by not giving him any chase. I pointed out that he could have tried to bait me a little less obviously, gotten on an objective which I would have been likely to force him off, and so on, but none of that swayed him. He had decided I was toxic and had wronged him. What actually happened was simple; I judged that he must be the team's best Looper since he was working so hard to get me in a chase with him. A good Looper's efforts are usually applied to leading the Killer away from the others while they do objectives. I wished to keep up Generator pressure. Why bother with the clicker when he is wasting his time following me around? He is not on objectives so I've neutralized him simply by ignoring him. Last but not least, he will be far easier to catch when I can do it at my leisure, not having to maintain pressure on anyone else.
I got "reported" once for what appears to be simply kicking some Survivor butt. Hell, I've probably been reported for that many times but not always told. This particular time I was playing a Spooky Myers build at Midwich. The team was clearly a SWF and exceedingly altruistic. I usually test for this early. I played around with them for awhile, but then I started sticking them in the basement because they kept trying for Generators by the basement. Go figure. The spawn had a pallet there right before the stairs with that bit of obstructive terrain. Once the pallet is gone the Killer can literally stand where it was and the only approach possible to the basement is to go upstairs the long way and come down behind the Killer. Here is where it gets funny. They had launched a very well done rescue from the basement and gotten two out but one person got slugged as they ran away and I was chasing the others leaving that person on the basement floor. When I got to the pallet, they dropped it and I started kicking it. The Felix had brought in a fully tricked out flashlight (remember these are a SWF) and blinded me. I stayed still. Why run forward when I can't see and I know people will just go behind me? While I stayed right where I kicked the pallet they couldn't quickly get by me. Well, the Felix kept blinding me over and over again, apparently expecting (for some reason) this would make me move. It didn't, obviously. :) Once the flashlight had pretty much died and 60 seconds had passed I went down and hooked the one in the basement. The game went downhill for them very quickly as they just kept staying within my wall hack, never leaving that corner until it was down to just one of them. Every single thing I did was in response to THEIR actions but somehow I was the toxic one. When the game ended, all they said was: REPORTED!
We all have war stories, and as a Survivor I also have a few where the Killer complains about this or that, does the same thing over and over again, and they are all equally foolish as the two Killer examples I give above. Nobody acting within the rules is being "toxic" but are simply playing the game and doing the best they can with the tools they have available. Try not to let it tilt you.
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@Avilgus said:
Flashlight squad are a gift from God if you are a decent killer.
By paying attention, you can easily 4k at 5 to 3 gens against teams like that.
Agreed; as I stated way early in this thread, I consider it my birthday when I see four flashlights. I don't equip Lightborn, I gear up for a Bully Squad and take the kid's gloves off. If someone pulls a switcheroo at the last second, that is just their tough luck because I'm already coming in rattlesnake mean. :)
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To be fair, the default Nea is only the Entity's first draft of passing as a human. :)
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180398#Comment_2180398
The problem is not only swf vs solo but also the skill difference at red ranks. The scale is bad solo -> bad swf -> good solo -> good swf. And all this combined at rank 1-4. Thanks to what I compare to other ranked pvp games gold to grandmaster rank stuck together.
Matchmaking is certainly an issue, and no matter what method they use to calculate it, SWF is still OUTSIDE of it. I suspect that is why we still don't have the new skill based matching implemented. It has no way to account for SWF.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180340#Comment_2180340
I Got yah, it's primarily that its done in the lobby by swf's that your uncomfortable with. Fair enough, and ayh your definityl going to have difficulty doing that with solos/not really be able to accomplish it.
that being said it seems nearly identical to SWF's coordinating perks and res prior to the match which I wull admit to having done. You think that questionable too then I take it?
I think it provides a competitive edge, but it isn't questionable because they have stated it is legal. My views on SWF are a matter of record. I think they need to be in their own Queues or Killers should have an additional Perk slot unlocked when they pull a 3+ SWF to help offset Comms. Me and my own, we will talk on Comms but our rule is not to talk about the game. We might discuss football, movies, etc. but no calling out the Killer's position. That is a personal choice. I don't expect others to do it, nor hold them to our standard.
I do hope the DEV eventually either unlock a Perk for Killers facing SWF or add additional Objectives because SWF are hurting SOLO Players far more than they are hurting Killers. To put it simply, Killer players adapt. I fight SWF pretty frequently and at my level, many of them are well-coordinated and fully loaded out. I do ok, but I'm also insanely competitive. The problem is that while Killers are adapting to fight the competitive edge SWF bring to the table, the Solo are now thrown against Killers who treat every game (because they can't be sure until it is too late) as if it is a SWF. It causes a lot of misery for Solo Players and it isn't the Killer's fault. :)
If I knew when I'm facing Solo versus when I'm facing SWF I would play appropriately. Since I don't, I have to assume the worst.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180295#Comment_2180295
Again not a problem that you think he shouldn't be doing this to get a rise out of killers, so long as your ok with it if it's for the win. (Personally the intent doesn't matter as much to me but it's fine either way.)
I don't think i mentioned it being against the rules and I'm not saying you did either.
it's the ethically questionable part that I'm talking about
I'm having trouble seeing the difference between this and any other bait/trap for the killer to fall into, or do you consider those ethically questionable as well?
Or is it just becusse it requires teamwork to pull off, putting it more akin to a strategy based around certain survivors bringing certain perks for maximum advantage ie one survivor brings prove thyself another bt etc etc.? Is that what you find questionable?
I'm not sure why you care about what I find ethically questionable. Something that is questionable in the ethics department is largely personal, i.e. could I look myself in the mirror if I were doing it. Would I still respect myself or value any win I earned using the practice? Do you see my point? It is within the rules, so it is legal. I just don't do it, nor am I going to commend it. The only reason it was even discussed in the thread (by me) was because the OP went out of his way to talk about why it didn't matter that they did it anyway because it didn't affect the game (and was just for laughs). That required a response, because that statement was incorrect. When the switcherroo works as intended, it causes the Killer to play one Perk down. That is a tangible effect on the game, and thus the OP's statement needed correction. Other people, like MadLordJack commented more on that than me. I don't like it but I accept it. The same is true of so-called face-camping; I don't like it but I accept it is part of the game.
But if you want to know why I think it is ethically questionable, it is because it is outside the match. It is largely possible only with Comms. While you can chat at each other in text, that isn't how it is normally done and would take a lot more work. Solos don't generally want to do that kind of thing, and suddenly coordinating with strangers in that manner doesn't happen that often. In short, it seems like a thing which is logistically easier for SWF (as so many things are) and thus one has to wonder why they need one more competitive edge, i.e. trying get the Killer to play a Perk down. Perfectly legal but... most people just don't (or can't easily) do it. Even the OP insists it wasn't done for that reason. He said he did it for laughs to see if he could get the Killer to lose his [bad word] in the end game chatter because it is funny. I would point out that even the OP seemed to feel getting advantage would be wrong and got very defensive and went to great lengths to say it wasn't about that. This would seem to indicate that even the OP wasn't entirely comfortable with that part I find ethically questionable.
In the end, the only thing I truly take issue with was the Shadenfreude. Since that seems to be repudiated now, I am no longer vested.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180137#Comment_2180137
Yah I wasn't taking issue with the intent behind his action, that's why I said hiw would you even be able to tell as a Survivor being camped why the killer did it, which I noticed you ignored and switched to something else, or in this case as the killer getting tricked into a bad perk.
I was popping up to ask if you think a group doing what he did not primarily to piss off the killer but to gain an advantage was ok, because you seemed to be against that as well even though it would fit right into that player agency portion if the game
You can go back through this thread and see what I think of it. I said they are perfectly able to do so, but that it is ethically questionable. It is within the rules for someone to change at the last minute. It is within the rules for a SWF to communicate. So to pull the stunt is well within the rules. Something can be within the rules and still be of questionable ethics. I would have been less bothered, and wouldn't have posted in this thread at all, had the OP simply stated that they were doing it only for a competitive edge. I wouldn't have approved of the method, but my approval is beside the point. It would still be within the rules. I chimed in because of the stated intent, the wanting to anger/grief another Player for laughs. That is being a bad sport. The Germans have a word for it, "Shadenfreude."
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@Sonzaishinai said:
4k and especially everyone escaping is akin to flawless victories in fighting games. It should be relativelly rare.
It is kinda a problem that people see this as the victory condition. It just creates a very skewed idea of balance.
I wouldn't be surprised if over half the people that think this game is frustrating have this mindset. They are really doing it to themself.
Lower the expectation of what a victory is and this game becomes a lot more enjoyable. If you only see the most extreme as a victory then you can't say anything about balance cause you're not playing the same game at that point
In point of fact a "flawless victory" would require achieving the maximum kills/escapes, maximum Blood Points, and to earn double Pips. This is rare; I only manage it myself every now and then, particularly since the quality of my opponents has gotten better and better. Merely getting four kills or four escapes is pretty easy by comparison. BEhavior has never stated the win conditions of Dead by Daylight, so Players can only know for certain if/when they earn that flawless victory.
All that being said, the community loosely views the following as wins:
Killer Win = 3+ Kills, Killer Draw = 2 Kills, Killer Lost = 0-1 Kills.
Survivor Win = 3+ Escapes, Survivor Draw = 2 Escapes, Survivor Loss = 0-1 Escapes.
*All the other stuff, Blood Points and Pips is simply icing on the cake one way or another. If you happen to be working on a Rift or a Daily and complete that in a match, that is another way to rate a personal win. Survivors have one more way to judge a personal win, because individual Survivors can get out alive even if their team was destroyed. By community standards the Killer still won those matches, but the one that got out gets an consolation prize.
All that being said, do I agree with you that four kills or four escapes should be rare? No, not under current matchmaking. The current system all but ensures that there will be lots of them, both ways. They will average out against one another. I do, however, agree it would be a wonderful thing if matchmaking got good enough that the Utopian ideal was common in the individual match, rather than only by averaging all matches. That would result in every match being very hard fought, however, and eliminate the notion of a casual game entirely. If you are always facing your own quality, there are no half measures.
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@fr0sty1223 said:
An average round in this game is 2 kills and 2 escapes so why do people think they are entitled to a 4K or 4 escapes?
This is an odd thing to say because in all my hours playing this game I've never run across anyone saying they are "entitled" to either. You have to earn four kills or four escapes. The DEV hope that the statistics for the totally average Player will fall around two kills or two escapes, but it is always a fluid target with a margin of error. But an average round, based on statistics and the Bell Curve, is moot when it comes to individual matches. Good Players (of both roles) regularly earn up to four kills or escapes.
As this is a PvP game the outcomes are also affected by the matchup. A average Killer pulling subpar Survivors might get that 4K. Average Survivors pulling that newbie Killer might get those four escapes. Until we actually have accurate matchmaking the statistics used to judge Dead by Daylight are really just an overall snapshot and largely useless for application beyond big picture events.
I digress. Who is it exactly that is telling you they are "entitled" to anything? As I started this response, I've never heard anyone say that and it seems an odd, disjointed thing for anyone to say. Direct quotes would be nice, none of this "people are saying" nonsense. If they are saying it, you should be able to quote them word for word and tell us who is saying this. Please clarify your original statement.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178945#Comment_2178945
You are correct that I dislike camping. You are incorrect that the killers motive matters to me. If he's camping me to win I'm going to dislike it. If he's doing it to make me dislike it I'm going to dislike it, even if the killer intended to make me laugh about it I'm still going to dislike it.
Not sure how I would even know the killers intent while I'm being camped anywY, but would you be cool with it if the intent of other survivors who do this was an edge in the match?
of as for the fake out requires comms and not everyone has that is what you dislike then don't worry you don't need to speak to do this. All you need is to type to your friends in our next match switch out at the last second and everyone who plays dbd can do that so no worries 👍
If the Killer carried you over by the hatch and dropped you at it, you would assume he was letting you out. If he let you crawl right to it and suddenly slammed it in your face and hooked you, you would know his/her intent was imply to screw with you. It would be a sick, perverse thing that had nothing to do with the game itself. It would be for the Killer to get his/her kicks at your upset.
In this case, we know what the OP's intent was in fact. I don't know, since you came to this thread so late in the game, if you saw the original title of this thread or got to read the original post. It suffices to say that the OP admitted that the point of the switcheroo was not to take advantage of the benefit it provided in the game (although that benefit is significant) but just anger to the Killer's player to the point that the would get salty in the end game chat. The whole point of the action was just to aggravate the player, not unlike our hatch slamming example above. I don't have to guess at the intent because it was clearly stated.
However, since the OP has now changed the name of the thread and altered that original post, I'm just going to let it go and assume that means it is now understood on some level that it wasn't the best idea or thing to champion. Personally, I hope this thread just kind of dies away at this point. The subject is exhausted.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2179061#Comment_2179061
Fair enough. I don't remember fully what the original post was so i can't really comment about it
Do still want to make it clear to everyone that if this happens to you that effectivelly nothing happened and there is zero reason to be upset about it
Whatever the intent is, the act is harmless
Heh. Well I have a copy or the original title and post, and it is crystal clear. However, in deference to the OP deciding to change that title and edit that post, I'll not just throw it right back up here, quoted, for another long dissection. Clearly the OP knows the originals were problematic or they wouldn't have been changed. I suppose I'll accept that as the closest we are going to come to an admission that the behavior was inappropriate.
My view is this is a PvP game, and we all do what we have to do inside a match (within the rules) to win. I'm never going to blame or berate Survivors for body blocking, working to steal chases, bringing the best equipment they can, and so on. Their job is to get out alive and anything and every thing they do within the rules to achieve that is 100% valid. I feel the same way about Killers; they can camp, tunnel, slug, and/or use whatever Perk or Add-on(s) they want to kill the Survivors and I'm not going to give them grief. They are simply playing the game. There is a profound difference from playing the game to win within the rules, and merely using the game to antagonize or grief people for fun.
I hope we can agree on that.
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@psionic said:
Before the match begins, the game will tell you if you'are being paired with 2-4 survivors playing with friends and their raking levels.
Would you skip the lobby?
Would you change your gameplay in match?
Would you change your perks?
Tell us.
No, I wouldn't skip the lobby. The value in knowing if you face a SWF or not is being able to make the effort out the gate appropriate to the opponents. For better or for worst, a SWF does have substantial competitive edge over Solo. While not every SWF is a hardcore menace, Killers have to come out swinging at 110% with no quarter or mercy to make sure they have a chance just in case it is a hardcore SWF. This means by the time we know otherwise, some poor Solo team has taken the brunt of something they would not have faced otherwise. It is Solo that suffer the most because of SWF.
So, no I would not play any different against a SWF because I know it is a SWF, but yes knowing it isn't a SWF would do Solo players a huge solid. Killers would be able to take a breath and not have to assume they are SWF.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2179021#Comment_2179021
The whole comms point is mood. There is a chat box on pc. Solos can do this too
While i agree the op's choice of original tittle to this post was poor there is nothing to be antagonized over. Nothing antagonizing was done
There is no advantage they are gaining as long as they are switching to no items. Which they did apperently. Lightborn isn't wasted here. You still dealt with their flashlights just by the perks existence
If anything they are putting themself at a disadvantage because if the killer didn't pick a anti flashlight perk they lose the flashlights they could have used
Closing the hatch in someone's face is different from this. Pretending to give hatch is like a brother pretending to give his sister a candy bar and then eating it himself before so can get it. What OP did was pretending to eat the candybar but then giving it anyway. There's a world if difference between that.
The other examples you gave are good examples of antagonizing behaviour but this just isn't. Nothing harmfull was done. The only thing that happened is that instead of making flashlights useless lightborn made them dissapear
As i said before. Think if something is worth being upset about before being upset about it.
It was more than the now changed original Title. There was also the original, pre-edit post. :) The intent was to antagonize a Player for fun. That was it; that was the entire point of the original post. There is no cleaning that up or revising it after the fact. All the OP had to do was clarify that or apologize for that aspect of it. Instead, he dug deeper and deeper and eventually that Title got changed and the first post got a revision.
Bad sportsmanship is bad sportsmanship. It is a weird thing to post about and an even weirder thing to do just to get one's jollies. If the OP didn't actually mean it that way, he could have corrected that. The intent was to be a jerk; there is no reason to be surprised that there are people who are going to say, "hey, being a jerk isn't funny." I see no difference between his behavior and the others I listed because the INTENT was the same, the reason for the act was the same. It would be hypocritical for me to treat them differently.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I wonder if this threat would have blown up as much if the tittle was something like.
How to bamboozle the killer.
Kinda sad to see this thread devolve into another "us vs them" post.
There is zero difference between them having useless flashlights because of lightborn or them not having flashlights outside maybe 1 attempt at blinding.
Switching out the flashlights or not has little to no effect on how that game goes. Lightborn still made it so you don't have to deal with flashlights. Wether they have them or not is irrelevant.
As long as op didn't switch to all toolboxes or keys they did nothing wrong.
Can people please think if something is worth getting upset over before getting upset over it. Or is today's society's ego really that fragile that the second they get trolled they need to get upset. No matter how harmless that trolling actually was.
It isn't the intent to trick the Killer that is the primary issue, but rather the point of it being to antagonize people specifically so you can take a weird pleasure in them getting salty in the after game chat. I think using SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) to try and further stack things to one's advantage by Metagaming outside the match is of questionable ethics, but that isn't why I chimed in on this thread. I take issue with stated intent, as evidenced by the title of the thread and the OP's first post, which is to piss people off for laughs. It is just being a bad sport and a person who gets his jollies in a rather perverse way.
And for the record, this isn't about "us versus them" for me at least. I don't care which role you are trying to aggravate for kicks, it is just plain obnoxious. I would call it out the same, and have in fact in the past when people were doing things as the Killer just to aggravate the Survivor Players outside of the game. There is that obnoxious habit of pretending to give people the hatch just so it can be slammed in their face, or pretending to let them crawl out the gate just to go get them before they make it out. Letting people bleed out for no game purpose is the same. All of the people I've called on this said the SAME thing, that it was just for laughs. Most of them also told me I take the game too serious. Imagine that.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178603#Comment_2178603
I'm kinda surprised I thought you were all about player agency? This would be another form of strategy kina like baiting the opposing player into making a mistake no?
I am all about Player agency inside the match. This is something outside of it, and dependent upon using Comms (something not all Survivors even have). You will also note, I never said he couldn't do it. What I stated is it is a strange way to get one's jollies, a perverse hobby. His goal is to upset/aggravate the Player so they will be salty and upset in the after game chat. The fact that it also helps sabotage the Killer into playing one Perk down is just icing on the cake I suppose. The key thing is I'm not putting words in his mouth or making assumptions about his motives. I am taking his behavior exactly as he portrays it.
In fact, it isn't that different from something you dislike. Imagine if someone camped you the entire match (I know you don't like that) just to see if they could make you DC or suicide on the hook, so they can take enjoyment from you being salty about it after the fact? In this case, it is the intent that matters. Imagine if you were in a debate with someone who started a thread titled:
How To Camp a Survivor to Make Them Lose Their [BAD WORD]
The poster proceeds to describe how they grab Survivors, camp them and slash them repeatedly on the hook just so they get angry and salty after the game. The poster says they do this because it is "funny," and claims it has no in-game purpose. I would likewise be calling them on being bad sports. I wouldn't be saying they can't do it, but I would (defending you even) be calling them on it exactly like I called the OP here. It is a Metagaming move and instigated for pretty creepy reasons.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178644#Comment_2178644
Thank you :) Yeah, so did I, and I also thought that kicking applied a base amount of damage before regressing, myself.
I was researching my idea and learned otherwise. I want the idea to be good and not OP. :)
You might have make your suggestion be that base kick Regression got to 150% and so would Tier-1 Ruin (except no kick is required), and then Tier-2 = 175%, and Tier-3 = 200% as I don't think there is enough room for Tier-3 to go beyond 200% without it being utterly over the top.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178628#Comment_2178628
'All Generators automatically regress at 100/150/200 % of the normal Regression speed whenever they are not being repaired.'
So at Tier 1, they regress at the same speed as if they were kicked. T2 is 50% more AKA 150%, and T3 is 100% more, AKA double speed, or 200%
So my idea was to make T1 Ruin base kit. Meaning all gens regress as if kicked. And change Ruin to be 125%/150%/200% faster regression. Which means T1 on the perk gets a small buff, but Tiers 2 & 3 on the perk stay exactly as they are now.
Then I stand corrected, and agree with you. For some reason I thought regular regression was slower than Tier-1 Ruin, and I appreciate getting set straight.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178198#Comment_2178198
But ruin provides equal to what a kick does. At least at tier one. So you're saying a kick should apply half of what it already does? Because T1 Ruin = Kicked Gen. T2 = 150% T3 = 200%
I think, unless my math is way wrong, that Ruin is a LOT faster regression than a kick. I didn't think a kicked Generator regressed faster than:
Generators regress at a default rate of 0.25 c/s, taking a maximum of ~320 seconds to regress from 99.9... to 0 %.
Is that the same speed at Tier-1 Ruin? Because it sure doesn't seem like it in game. :) I always assumed that 100% regression listed in the write up of Ruin was 100% of the same speed at which it was repaired. Do I have that backwards, and it is simply 100% of the normal regression speed? If so, that is egg on my face. Even the first level of Ruin has always seemed to be a good deal faster than a kick, but perhaps that is simply because it starts immediately as soon as the repairs halt.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178556#Comment_2178556
I don't try to ruffle feathers on Steam with any person that I face. I have NEVER insulted someone over a match except for me complaining about desync over certain tiles or when the pallets wouldn't stun. I'm always genuine with others' who I face, either as killer or survivor. I don't delete comments unless they are just lies but I take screenshots before I do because I hate it when people get mad about something that I DIDN'T do. You can go through my comments also, if you want. There are like 2 that aren't very happy but it was out of my hands. The rest seemed pretty thrilled going against me. Hell, even when I play Spirit for dailies, I try to be nice and give survivors a breather against me, hence, my comment from Cowboy. I could have 4k'd them from the beginning but I ended up walking away and letting everyone get up since I do/feel that Spirit is unfair to go against. I practice what I preach and I don't try to "bully" a killer in a match nor as Killer.
You know why people seem to enjoy going against me as Killer? It's because I don't get into my feelings and lose my temper just because I get outplayed. I tell them that they were damn good and I hope I see them again so I can get better. Even the killers' I go against, complimented me on how good I was at loopin' them but I never let it get to my head. I show respect where respect is shown to me. I don't get any and I won't bother even chatting with the person. It's a game. That's it. I do stupid ######### in video's sometimes for laughs, like duck, duck, goose or peekaboo Pig and I generally have fun doing it and others' seem to enjoy it as well. If you keep looking at this game, solely on winning as the fun factor, this game will drive you mad. I'll add you on Steam then send you the Discord if you want to chat sometime. Me and my friends usually differ on how to play killer/survivor and I'm usually considered a killer main, believe it or not because I do defend killers more than survivors but I'm always civil with others' and their opinions.
I'm not judging you by anything you have done (or not done) other than this single thread. Your inability to own up to the fact it is ethically challenged (to say the least) is your issue, not mine. I didn't ask you to defend your gaming history, nor do I comment on it. I am merely holding your toes to the fire over your specific title of this thread, and what you originally posted. The fact you kept digging the hole deeper by being incapable of understanding why not everyone finds this as entertaining as you do, is also your problem.
But let's play Devil's Advocate here; what if I'm just one of those weird people who likes gutting people on forums for fun? Could it be I hunt the threads looking for someone who has stepped in it so I can proceed to slowly, painfully, and psychotically drag them over the coals? What if I think that is funny? What if I get my jollies that way? What if it makes me feel powerful and because this is "just a forum" isn't to be taken seriously? What if getting you to act defensive and go into that defense of your history was a win condition for me? Would you find that funny? Wouldn't you find that a perverse thing for me to take enjoyment in? I'm just asking here since you know, none of this is serious.
I don't know you. I am entirely focused on this thread and what you said. It isn't supportable behavior. You have to know that on some level, or you wouldn't have gotten defensive. For the record, I don't take any perverse pleasure in having to get into these debates, however many I seem to stick myself into. I feel more obligated than anything else, and annoyed by it. If you didn't intend the meaning you clearly stated when you created the title of this thread and by the context of your first post, you missed the mark you were going for. We don't see you as a mad prankster, a likeable rascal, or someone just having fun. We see you as someone metagaming by use of the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) to further hobble the Killer in a match that you were already going into with a competitive edge. We see that, because that is all there is to it when you strip away your attempts to cast yourself in a better light. I'm actually trying to get through to you, because I don't think you are a terrible person at heart. I just think you are wearing blinders and being a bad sport.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178525#Comment_2178525
- Metagaming? If that is a way of saying that I was making the games easier on myself with mori's then yeah, I guess you're right.
- Why should I have empathy for something that isn't that serious from the start?
- You seem more angry about this than the killers that we faced. Honestly, not sure why but you seem to have had bad games before against people. I play both sides a lot and I still don't see why you're getting so up in arms over something that was just stupid. We faced mori's every match. If it was still the old mori's, we still would have done it. It's just a game.
- I never seen you say anything about showing you my steam id. If you want it, https://steamcommunity.com/search/users/ Lupin The 3rd
I'm the first when you search it up. Blue Tuxedo with that dazzling smile! You can even see my YouTube channel where I play BOTH Killer and Survivor at Rank 1. Look at my comments and tell me how many people seem to be mad? Anything else you want from me?
You must have missed my earlier post where I asked for a name, so that if I (and other Killers) saw we pulled you in a room, we would know. That way we could join in your fun. My name in the game is exactly the same as it is here. I'm annoyed with your behavior because it is bad sportsmanship and you seem oblivious (or at least unwilling to admit) that it is ethically wrong. I realize that I'm archaic in my beliefs about good and bad sports, and that you may have no understanding whatsoever of what I'm talking about; more is the pity. People come to play the game in good faith, and have a hard enough time dealing with SWF without them using their Comms to manipulate the match before it has even begun. Do I care personally? No. But do I care about this kind of behavior because of the way it affects the overall community? Yes. Bad sportsmanship hurts all of us.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178482#Comment_2178482
If you have to have a 4th perk to have a chance at the game as killer, I don't know what to tell you. I play some games, all serious. Others', just doing stupid ######### with friends to see if the killer will laugh. I play killer and try to make survivors laugh, too. This isn't a case where we tried to bully someone to death. It was just for fun. I feel like this community has forgotten in the old days where people would do dumb stuff to have fun and not take the game this serious. I guess that time has went past us.
And if you, claiming to be an all Red Rank SWF, have to resort to Metagaming to sabotage the Killers before the match even starts, what does that say about you? The problem is that you don't appear to have any empathy, and your idea of laughs is at the detriment of others. What I am pointing out, what you did just for fun, clearly wasn't fun for them. And, you are lying now, or you were lying when you started this thread. The title of this thread and your initial post make it clear this was done to try and aggravate them and get some laughs if you could make them lose it in the end game chatter. We have a crystal clear picture of you and why you did it; no amount of attempting to sugarcoat it is going to show you in a better light.
I notice you ignored my request for your Steam I.D. when I asked. Let's you and I take a trip back to the old days when everyone pretty much knew who everyone was in matches. Since you like laughs, and clearly think this behavior is acceptable, why don't you want to tell us who you are so all of us who want to "laugh with you" can return the favor. I mean, if you think it was a hoot for all involved, you shouldn't mind Killers recognizing your name when you play, right?
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178345#Comment_2178345
That is a bit different. You're going out of your way to make it hard for the killer to see you and when they do, blind them to run away and hide once more. THAT is toxic. Take off your flashlights isn't and I do play both sides. I didn't come up with the idea, it was done to me a few times and wanted to try it out. Was I mad? No but I thought it was well done. That example is a group doing it to make a killers' life hell.
No, it isn't different. You are attempting to make the Killer play a Perk down.
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@KerJuice said:
Like the title says. When this rework was first announced I knew this was going to be a headache. It’s only been a week and I’m mentally EXHAUSTED from all the stupid farming (especially without Borrowed Time) after a hook or in the killer’s face. This is ridiculous. Farming was a problem before, it’s even worse now. If it can’t be reverted, at least give the option to submit to the entity. Give the killer extra points for that if you have to. But to be pulled off hook by so many asshats in this community, only to give them points and get downed again is infuriating. I definitely understand & can appreciate the convenience factor of not having to keep hitting the space bar, X, or A button. But there is a lot of us in this community that can’t stand being farmed, so please meet us half way.
I just had a game where there was 3 of us left with one gen to go. We all were on death hook, but i was the only one doing a gen. I get it to 97% when the killer found me and downed me. I look around and see these two a holes crouched in corners. One is fairly close by. I see what’s about to happen a mile away, and like clockwork- I get hooked then farmed off without borrowed time. I had let one skill check pass and waited for what seemed like forever for another one to skip, but alas- it never came as i watched this jerk running towards me with BP logos in his eyes.
Killer comes after me even though he injured the bum, and I’m further away. Eventually i get downed again, and killed. I’m dead and I have a considerable amount of more points than the other two who were alive. Eventually they both die. Fun times. Enough is enough. Fix this #########.
I'm going to have to disagree with you, strongly.
- I don't like wearing out expensive keyboards and controllers.
- I don't like carpel tunnel syndrome.
- This change doesn't have any effect on whether people farm you or not.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
I personally do both think it will be anyone from 8. After playing and beating RE8 for the 6th time I can say they do not have enough screen time to warrant that. No spoilers for those who haven't but want to play it please.
No, I don't think it will be anyone for Resident Evil 8: The Village. I think there is a high probability it will be a Killer and Survivor (perhaps plural) based on one of the movies rather than the game. I think the fees to license said people are likely to be more negotiable and only profit both the studios who might make another film and/or Capcom who gets free publicity but nothing horning in on their current intellectual endeavors.
If I were a betting man, I'd go so far as to put money on Alice and the Licker, with a close second being characters from the Resident Evil II film since a blasted couple of blocks of Racoon City post zombie holocaust might be fun for them to make a map from. Bear in mind I have no insider information, no snitches telling me anything. This is just an educated guess. They made a comment in one of their Q&A not too long ago, hinting about "stars" and that usually implies cinema.
Please bear in mind I have no personal preference for any particular Killer or Survivors myself. If I did, believe it or not I'd choose the Red Queen and want the DEV to come up with a way for an AI to place deathtraps all over the map and trigger zombies and other monsters. I realistic though, and understand that simply won't work within the context of DbD. Among those Killers that do fit in to the confines of the game we play and love, there are too many of them to be certain.
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@Yamaoka said:
Long enough to become a villain
Perfect; mic drop post. We have a winner.
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I don't keep track but Steam apparently does; many, many thousands of hours.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
We don't use the flashlights, hence, the point of watching them get mad because they assume we are going to bully them. We just play normally still but we usually get all 4 but sometimes 3 lol. I play both sides but man, it was hilarious to watch people lose it lol. I'm like, we took them away? No flashlights, no problems. It was just funny to watch their reactions lol.
Oh yes, I almost forgot about you, the original poster. So is your goal simply to aggravate the other Players outside of the match? It appears you and I differ because I don't get my jollies trying to anger other Players, but rather from playing the game. It is a strange hobby you have. I would be saying this to you regardless of which role you were playing (Killer or Survivor) if you were bragging and having a good laugh about how to invoke salty reactions. This is just straight up bad sportsmanship. It means you went into the match with an ulterior motive besides simply playing. What's your name in Steam so I know when I pull you; I want to have some laughs too, see what I can do in the match to make you feel salty at the end. I need to know what kind of perverse fun I'm missing out on since you are talking it up.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178225#Comment_2178225
What? Why is that funny as well as it not making sense
I got the joke; perhaps you lack a sense of humor.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178214#Comment_2178214
The humor is watching the killer fall for it
Ah, but the humor in my response is making people who THINK they are putting something over on someone get stung for it. Are you saying things are only funny when the "Killer" falls for it? Hustling a hustler or conning conmen is always funnier because it has the added measure of just deserts. I think it is hilarious (and put that content up on the internet) every time I get lucky enough to have one of those pulls. By the reaction to the videos, most people think it is hilarious.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178200#Comment_2178200
The killers have an option to run those perks. Survivors are tricking the killer. The killer has a choice to fall for the trick.
Again, where is the humor in that? I stated what I do when I see four flashlights, i.e. I don't load up Lightborn; I put in a Tombstone Piece and celebrate my good luck on drawing a Bully Squad that I don't have to pull punches with. And yes, Survivors (a SWF specifically) are Metagaming OUTSIDE the match using their 5th Perk (Comms) to try to setup the Killer. I find it amusing (so I suppose there is humor in this in a way) that you don't see the ethical problem there.
At no point did I ever say people shouldn't do it. I merely commented on the ethics of it. I stated that FUNNY thing I do when I see four flashlights. Are you saying I ruined the joke because the humor of my funny response is lost on you? :)
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178194#Comment_2178194
How to ruin a funny post
It was funny? I kind of missed that because it happens so often in fact. I suspect many Killers don't get the humor, particularly those that experience it first hand.
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@Power_Guy said:
Hear me out!
Killers TACTICALLY camp because of time pressure. This is a fact. If we can remove 1 player, the Survivor's efficiency goes down by 25%. Sometimes MORE, since there's always at least someone going for the unhook.
We just feel that time crunch at the start of the match. And I've seen a gen pop in 20 seconds before. And we all know kicking is absolutely garbage & useless unless you're running Pop; Survivors can tap gens 120 times faster than Killers kick gens.
(My math is probably wrong, but it takes Killers 2 seconds to kick, and Survivors can 1-frame a tap in 1/60th of a second)
But!
If T1 Ruin was basekit, and gens just naturally regressed when not worked on, we would not feel that time crunch as much.
The trade (Because it would not be balance without trade!)
Kicking gens does not add regression over time!
Let me explain: Killers can still kick a gen for the base...what is it? 8 percent? But it will not add any speed to the regression over time itself.
And they can only kick a gen once, until it's been worked on again. Just like now.
I feel like this idea should at least be tried on the PTB. Hex: Ruin would have to be reworked into +25%/+50%/+100% (Thereby giving, when active, 125%/150%/200%, which is only slightly stronger (at Tier 1) than it is now. Tiers 2 & 3 would be the EXACT same bonus it gives now.)
While I agree that some regression should be base kit, I don't think it is Ruin. What I believe is that:
- A kicked Generator should start regressing at 50% speed, i.e. half what Ruin provides automatically.
- This will not stack with Ruin; the Perk replaces this while in effect.
I believe this would reward and encourage Killers to bother with kicking Generators with or without Perks, and lead to a healthier game. It would not impinge on the existing Perks because it is still half the speed of the lowest Tier of Ruin, but SO MUCH faster than base regression.
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It is metagaming, i.e. attempting to trick the Killer by a last minute switch. I don't use the word "toxic" because I think it has no meaning anymore. However, I will say last minute switches by a coordinated SWF are certainly questionable in the ethics department. I could largely care less if someone brings a flashlight, or four of them. I just assume it is my birthday and I pulled a Bully Squad. It just means that you are ensuring yourself a very miserable game against me. Since I will be assuming you are Bully Squad, you get treated with zero courtesy. I'll play as mean as a rattlesnake, and not feel the slightest bit bad about it because the Survivors initiated it by attempting to metagame. Since I play Myers, I just add a Tombstone Piece and take the game to a 3v1 very quickly.
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If I'm the Killer I offer no quarter and play as hard and interesting as I can. They came for content; I'd hate to let them down. I particularly enjoy it when they came to get content abusing some exploit. This happened recently with the Perk: Breakdown. A TTV crew came in, clearly the streamer and his/her complete entourage. I started the game normally but when it was obvious multiple people had the Perk and that was why they came, I proceeded to slug them all and bleed them all out. They couldn't even complain about it in the end game chatter, since it isn't like they left me much choice. :)
I have no doubt on the actual channel the moaning, groaning, etc. was very salty indeed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2177852#Comment_2177852
he is complaining that the change to borrow time makes survivors become less mindful of safe hook saves(misuse of the perk) and that he's facing rank 5-20 survivors as if it was low MMR. Perks and Killer powers are tools. The tool is only as good as its wielder chooses to use it. BT is good tool and if you use it right, it can help you. Misuse the perk and it will hurt you. Its not BT change, its how people use BT at low-level. Its kinda how hoe people say dead hard is useless perk that makes you exhausted on the floor 99% of the time but its true strength was never dodging hits, rather its dash to get to safety and its use to take risky 50/50s that can be corrected if the killer reads it or how people say sprintburst is perk that makes you walk entire game when its true strength to 99% the sprintburst and use it mid-chase or to have it ready on deadzone generators to avoid early hits. you see my point?
I see what you are getting at here, but I'm not sure we are on the same page about whether or not he is actually complaining. A complaint normally infers one is the wounded party. He isn't doing that. He is venting about an unintended consequence of a misunderstanding of a rules change. If your argument is that new Borrowed Time is only as good as the person who chooses it, and that it will self correct, we agree. However, I don't think your responses talking about how to use said things really supports the point you were intending to make. That is why I had to ask what your point was in fact. Clarification is a beautiful thing. If I understand you correctly this time you are basically just saying:
"Some people suck, and we can't base how we build the Perks on the lowest common denominator."
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2177881#Comment_2177881
Then report it and the mods will clean up this thread if they agree with you.
I don't generally report anything. I'm just pointing out the obvious. The Mods generally review all our posts whether we report them or not. :)
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Yeah, but he isn't the one who introduced this into this thread. Someone went out of their way to go look at his profile to find something to dissect other than the topic this thread is about. I also abhor people seeking to use the Forum for personal attacks. To me, trying to change the subject from the topic to the poster is probably not appropriate, a type of bait. It is also a rhetorical fallacy. A better way to address this would have been for someone to start a post about what they feel are inappropriate Avatars (without naming and shaming as that is also against the rules here) and contacting Steam. Personally, I don't care about your Avatars (any of you) but I do care about the etiquette of debate and this Forum. This isn't a thread about Yord's Avatar, nor does it have anything to do with the topic.
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@bm33 said:
It's the challenge to save using BT in the killer's terror radius. It's also bugged so it won't go through sometimes unless you change out the challenge/survivor so some survivors will do worse plays trying to have the challenge go through.
I really wish they'd stop putting in these challenges that encourage bad game play.
I agree with this 100%. I hate the Rifts and Dailies that make Players choose bad play for a match.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I mean survivors in soloq make overally really bad plays,dont blame the perk for survivors mistakes
This logic is sound, but to some degree coming and posting here about the poor play does help spread the word that perhaps Survivors shouldn't do certain things. I'm pretty direct about my beliefs. I think the new Borrowed Time is great in that it does, indeed, allow Survivors to get the benefit from it even when the Killer is undetectable. I play a lot of Spooky Myers and always felt it was very unfair that I was immune (previously) to having to face Borrowed Time.
That being said, I also have been reaping dividends since the change because of really poor Survivor play. Nothing about the Perk changed in a manner to make hook diving a good idea. Safe rescues, which don't require Borrowed Time, should still be the GOLD STANDARD. I think Yords was being nice in posting and pointing that out. I, likewise, sometimes do little PSA posts when I see something being done over and over again by Survivors which makes things too easy on me. :)
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@IronWill said:
You really complain a lot for a person that claims of himself to be "good at dbd"
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/432347543003725834/841405707144265728/mhm.png
<laughs> Yords is good at DbD. I've played against him and can attest to that from personal experience. And for the record, I'm curious about your frame of reference for those who complain "a lot" since his venting wasn't really a complaint so much as voicing a concern about poor Survivor play. *He only benefits from them continuing to do so, so his motives are clean.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2177723#Comment_2177723
DS discourages you from chasing a recently hooked survivor and encourages you to chase the unhooked person. by doing so, it makes that killer is prompted to spread hook states on on survivor teams thus discouraging the killer from tunneling a single person out of the game(only hooking that person repetitively).
Suppose 2 people on deathhook, 1 gen remaining, and one person is hook in the basement on 2nd state. you can hook trade in the basement saving the person that was on death-hook so that you preserve 4 survivors alive as opposed to 3 survivors alive. This can be done a total of 4 times in this situation giving you ample time to complete last generator and forcing the killer to either chase a BT person in a favorable survivor loop or go through 4 additional hook states before a single player dies. BT is really good anti-tunneling perk if used correctly, but when used poorly, it gives free hook states to the killer where he progresses the game faster than you progress your objective. Its also one of those perks where its stronger the more stronger your entire team is at the chase as the cost of chasing a survivor with BT is high when survivors complete their objectively quickly while it is very low when the survivor goes down immediately/does objectively slowly.
I'm pretty sure Yords understands the purpose of Borrowed Time (both the current and recent version); I suspect he understands it better than you. What was the point of explaining the basics of trades to him? What he is talking about (and NOT complaining as another poster incorrectly stated) is that bad and inexperienced Survivors are not understanding the purpose of the Perk. They are literally using foolish, suicidal tactics. Myself, I'm an optimist and have faith the idiotic, misuse of the change in the Perk will self correct. He is a bit more cynical about it. He is correct, however, that time will tell.
I'm not trying to gut check you, I just don't see the point of your explaining that when it:
- Doesn't really address the problem he is speaking to...
- He obviously doesn't need a basics lesson.
What point of yours am I missing here? I'm assuming there is something?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2177758#Comment_2177758
You are, unfortunately.
I'm the guy who tunnels when he knows people has DS to try to tilt them.
That is why I asked; I wish I could remember the name of that reformed Killer who doesn't fight mean anymore. :) Well if you were playing as hard as you could, rattlesnake mean and they still steamrolled you, it is just a fact that we all pull that style squad now and then. The problem is those squads are growing in number. I keep pointing out to people that:
- The longer a SWF plays together they better they get.
- The more Solo is strangled the more SWF we get.
- Thus, the more highly coordinated super SWF we get building up.
It is a feedback loop.
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@Pulsar said:
Just got out of a match with 4 very good Survivors.
I was playing Demo, with a fun build and they took me to the Asylum. They managed all 5 gens in under 5 minutes. I got two downs.
They were extremely good. I lost fair and square and I accept that.
However, I felt like there was no possible way for me to win the match from the get-go. I even recorded it and went back and looked to see if I messed up anywhere. There wasn't a single thing that I could see that I did wrong.
I lost because I had no way to deal with what they brought to the table, nothing I could have done would have mattered.
They also taunted me the entire game, constant clicking, t-bagging, hovering ect ect. Got some fun and insulting messages post-game too. The one guy who was reasonable told me they were all together and he apologized for his friends, so that was nice.
But yeah, I'm thinking about quitting DBD for a bit after that one. Losing and feeling helpless and like nothing you did mattered is one thing, getting it rubbed in your face for 15 minutes after is another.
tl;dr ######### toxic people
It happens man. I'm going to say something which I hope is helpful, and isn't taken the wrong way. You are, if I'm not confusing you with someone else, a proponent of playing NICE. I think I recall you, many times, talking about how you try to avoid tunneling, trying to give as many hooks as you can, and don't camp. While I commend you on taking on such a challenge, there has to be a point where you let go of that personally imposed convention. There is a level of Survivor (particularly SWF) where they are playing with every competitive edge they can squeeze in, and then congratulating themselves on how good they are for simply stacking advantages.
I have no doubt you are a good Killer. So I'm asking, am I confusing you with someone else? Did you try to play nice? Or did you, as I would have in a heartbeat, shift into maximum efficiency to put them in the ground. When you mention "clicky, hovering types" I hear an option for focusing on one, putting them on a hook and using them as a bait to slow down the Gen-Rush. When I hear well-coordinated SWF, I hear: time to choose to take a 4v1 to 3v1 early to balance out their competitive edge. Do you see where I'm going with this? If I am confusing you for another Player, I apologize. That is why I'm asking? Are you that guy who is trying to play nice, and did you?
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@Yords said:
So over this last Friday and the weekend, I played DBD just about all day, and I noticed that survivors were going for the most ridiculous hook rescues. I'm talking literally in my face, no trying to sneak in for it, and just really bad saves that end up more detrimental.
The worst game I had was my first game of the day on Sunday, I was playing Wraith. 3/4 of the survivors had BT and would go for saves in plain sight, about 20-24ish meters from me. I didn't tunnel the person off hook, but it didn't even matter because everyone was just constantly going for bad unhooks.
All I did was cloak, run to the person going for the save in front of me, uncloak, and smack them.
I asked them why they did it in the end game chat and they were actually reasonable people who were nice, I was a little shocked ngl. They said that "I thought that's what the perk was for, you know to guarantee a save on a hook?" and while that is definitely true, they totally threw the game by doing that at every opportunity.
So like I said previously, before BT's buff btw, the buff to the perk would encourage bad saves against stealth killers and just bad saves in general. I think it is teaching survivors that it doesn't matter if they sneak in for a save or not, because the perk will save the person on hook not knowing that this is detrimental in most cases.
Now about matchmaking, all throughout the last 3 days I have mainly been put up against people who are around rank 8 to all the way back to 14 at its worst. I did occasionally get a few rank 18-17's, but I think it was only because of SWF groups. Keep in mind I am at rank 1 So has something changed with how we are put against survivors? Or am I just now experiencing the full brunt of the bad mmr system we have?
You are correct that, initially at least, it encourages unsafe saves. However, I think this is a self-correcting problem. Good Survivors will learn that you still need to attempt a safe rescue in the first place, and the Borrowed Time aspect is something there for when things go wrong, or when you have to try and make a save with a camping Killer (no way to attempt a safe rescue). When I heard about the change, I felt the same way you did, making the assumption that there will be a period of adjustment where everyone attempts to spam it and bombs the hook. Give it a week and people will have learned the error of their ways (I think).
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@DoritoHead said:
I've always played survivor super casually, and never have made it a goal to reach high ranks. Once I did, I started to hit a roadblock in that I'm not that good at looping the killer. I know how to run tiles, but I don't know when to abandon a loop or drop the pallet. Can any survivor mains help?
There isn't any reason to be embarrassed about it; I suspect most people aren't that good at looping as Survivors. I, myself, have never been good. After a lot of study, begging help, and practice I've managed to become competent. That is as far as it goes. It isn't my greatest strength by a long stretch. Here is a link to some helpful videos, some of which I used:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+loop+dbd