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Moundshroud

Moundshroud

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Moundshroud
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  • @VioletCrimes said:

    I don’t know if this is a bug, or if it’s just something I don’t know about because I don’t play Michael Myers. I just had a match against one who instantly killed me even though I’ve never been hooked. I looked at his add-ons and he didn’t have a tombstone or a regular mori add on (had a hair bow and a dead rabbit). Is this something Myers is just normally able to do, or is this a bug or hack?

    Did you make sure he didn't have Rancor as a Perk? Or Devour Hope active?

    in Myers Mori No Tombstone Comment by Moundshroud

  • @sonyasiren said:

    i downloaded dbd exactly 6 days ago and have been playing it a lot. i first started as a survivor and didn’t do so well. i’m rank 12 now and one thing i’ve noticed is that the win rate as a survivor is like 10-15%. i definitely don’t think i’m bad at the game, i almost always get max escape/bold points, do 1-3 gens, unhook 2 + survivors, but somehow rarely escape. today i tried killer for the first time to try and prove my theory i played as the huntress.  and won 4 games in a row, clearly i’m on to something.

    or am i just REALLY good at killer and bad at survivor?

    there are a couple killers who i find over powered from the ones i’ve versed so far: 

    1. nurse: the girl comes flying at u from half way across the map

    2. spirit: too confusing i have no idea how the hell  

    3. vomit girl: when there’s 3 more gens she just throws up on them and camps them 

    1. the cannibale: i feel like pallets are useless against him and he’s too op at chases
    2. the doctor:  versing him to me feels like an entirety different game

    some killers that are easier for me are:

    1. invisible guy 
    2. the shape
    3. the trapper

    please dbd pros give me tips i prefer playing survivor so much more

    i’m a claudette and have spine chill, light weight, resilience, and self care

    shes level 49, and i’m levelling up bill overbeck to get his teachable perks cause i like some of his perks. what else should i do? i also don’t want to spend money on this game

    EDIT: THANK U! i’m reading through the replies and i have definitely decided to play longer before finalizing my opinion. also i’m gonna keep experimenting with new play styles and perks. feel free to keep leaving comments and tips they’re actually very helpful

    You are a newbie Killer fighting newbie Survivors. Survivors only get more powerful as they learn to work together. The Killer only has to rely on him/herself. So the Killer always seems stronger at first. That starts to shift rapidly as the Survivors learn to work together.

    in killers are too op Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Orion said:

    I finally reached 30k upvotes after 18718 comments and a little under 3 years on the forum. This completely arbitrary milestone wouldn't have been possible without you. So, thank you, everyone.

    No problem; thank you for the insights and posts. I only upvote what entertained, interested, or educated me. I know you got a number from me and they were all well-deserved.

    in A big "thank you" to all my fans on the forum for 30k upvotes! Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188888#Comment_2188888

    If you're buying it, I'm down.

    Yeah, we've butted heads over some issues before, it's probably just a front to hide our undying devotion to each other though, right?

    I'll have some soul searching to do tonight, without a doubt. :) The one thing I like about a dedicated core of people here, most of whom I've disagreed with and had some knock down debates and discussions with, is that regardless of our disagreements they were able to support their arguments. I know I've debated with you, locked horns with MadLordJack, and done battle with quite a few others. I've been proven wrong a few times and had to eat crow. I've even seen a few of those I debated with (and respect) come around to the same point of view as me months later. Heck, I've come around to the point of view of some I disagreed with as I've become more "seasoned" too. I can't be too upset with those I meet that are stubborn, willfully ignorant, and have massive egos because those are largely my flaws also. The only difference is I'm aware of it and fight against my natural, flaws. Dead by Daylight is kind of baptism by fire, Players that stick and are in it for the long haul all pretty much end up at more or less the same place because with experience wisdom is impossible to duck forever (at least as far as DbD is concerned). Although, I know I tried to duck it... it just hunted me down.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188851#Comment_2188851

    I'm also happy you've got Pulsar who will echo every sentiment of yours. You make such a good lovely couple. When is your anniversary? You fit together so well :) I hope you two have long and joyous thread crapping journey full of logical fallacies and have many years of congratulating and upvoting each other. Don't forget to continue working on maintaining and growing your ego! Pulsar would be disappointed to see it shrink below the stratosphere. Please, don't let those mean people who dgaf about your opinions to spoil your day. Remember, they surely most important and will become even more important when you reach that 4k post count! Keep up the work!

    Hey Pulsar what do you think? Shall we buy a cottage in the country? :) I'm pretty sure you and I have had some pretty good debates in the past, but hey perhaps I'm deluded or lovestruck. Heh. I suspect he and I agree on some things because we both have thousands of hours in this game (him far more than me) and play both roles, and don't have any particular bias. You guys on the other hand, you are both newbies comparatively who showed up, hardly have anything logged, and for some reason have grand opinions and notions of what SHOULD be. You guys must both be a delight in real life.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @KrosseKrabbePizza said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188762#Comment_2188762

    what is it then in your opinion? For me, getting tunneled out of the game is very frustrating, if it happens over and over again. Getting out of this sort of grab from the killer is nice too, but you don´t get out of it that often without any loss.

    Things, that i can´t control in the game can get very frustrating to me. if i just suck in the game, thats my problem, i will continue and work on it. But i can´t control a camping and tunneling killer.

    You were talking to Pulsar but I can help here. You need to learn to let go of the things you can't control and not let them tilt you. If you can't, this is the WRONG game for you. I'm not saying that to be mean. Otz has a video on it, and his credentials dwarf mine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6vpgy40xiQ&t=5s


    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Altarf said:

    I don't know if I'd necessarily call camping and tunneling problems that can be fixed. Camping especially - there isn't really an anti-camping mechanism that would work without being abusable or extremely complicated, this has been tested. Sometimes camping is the right play, like in endgame, if there are almost repaired gens near the hook or if the entire team is swarming the hook.

    I guess some way to alert the team the killer is camping would be nice - a ping system, maybe. Tunneling physically cannot be stopped, though, without giving survivors something ridiculous like invincibility if you're chased for too long. You can't stop a killer from chasing a survivor if they really, really want to.

    This is a good post, and an excellent suggestion. I do think a coded animation for someone on the hook that clearly says "I'M BEING CAMPED" and one that says "ALL CLEAR" would be a good idea, because the arm flopping thing doesn't work. Nobody seems to agree or understand which means which. A coded one that left no doubt, that would be perfect. :)

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188813#Comment_2188813

    "This place isn't where you come for pity parties." - you

    "Nobody says you can't come have all the pity parties" - also you

    "Don't assume you are going to get any sympathy because chances are you won't." - don't assume I assume anything. The chance are (100%) I don't care about your sympathy.

    I want to ask you a favor. Could you please stop thread crapping?

    There you go! Wxnickxw has arrived and you and he are "kindred spirits" so I'll be kind and let you guys commiserate about all the indignities you suffer at the hand of DbD and Killers and everything else that is so unfair to you. :) You don't have to worry about him telling you to take ownership of your problems or practice or stop blaming others for your own failures. He will echo every sentiment you have issued so far. Knock yourselves out!

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188764#Comment_2188764

    Well, I don't know if it's obvious, but this is not your kitchen, so you don't get to tell me what to do and what not to do. See, I don't owe you anything and I'm not sure why you have that attitude that you can tell why people should come here. If I want to come here for a pity party, I will. If I don't feel like giving evidence to someone I don't like, I will not. Maybe tone down your demands? Or don't. I don't care either way.

    Nobody says you can't come have all the pity parties you want, but remember they are not exclusive and you don't get to tell us to leave. Don't assume you are going to get any sympathy because chances are you won't.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188705#Comment_2188705

    "but I also understand that they move in their own way at their own speed for their own reasons" - you should have started with that! Obvious fact: this thread is not for you. Move on to another one! This thread is created by a person who is not satisfied with the way they move. You are satisfied. So there is no common ground. Also, try not to sound like a corporate shill with full time job shutting down discussion that don't flatter the company. Do you get a bonus when you get to 4k comments?

    Except that isn't how a Forum works. This place isn't where you come for pity parties. :) You post, you should support what you post with evidence, and be prepared for people to disagree with you and demonstrate why you are wrong. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. :)

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @KrosseKrabbePizza said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188724#Comment_2188724

    You mean the perks the survivor got to curve around tunneling and camping (named nerfed DS and 12 second Borrowed time aka Hookswitching?)

    again i am not talking about giving survivor super strength to get it all done with ease. I more likely meant to lead the killers into another way of playing by giving them bonus points or minus points for certain behaviour. Or making the rating system more viable by putting mean killers and mean survivor in lobbies together or something like that. I know it´s hard, this thread was meant like "in a perfect world, how would it be?"

    But most of you guys overread this part.

    No, I'm talking about where I suggest a game within a game, for the Survivor on the hook. Hrm. I wonder if that was in another thread.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @KrosseKrabbePizza said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188715#Comment_2188715

    we are running circles here and i will stop the discussion here for my site. You are definitely not wrong with that. Survivors are giving the killers reasons to camp and tunnel because it works when they don´t do gens instead. But as i wrote before, this situation sucks for the hooked teammate in both scenarios and he can´t do absolutely nothing against it.

    Did you miss my post about a different approach to dealing with that?

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188656#Comment_2188656

    I'm well aware that they tried a few years ago... and then gave up. There are tons of ideas posted on this forum how to fix this. So let me continue the plumber analogy:

    (OP) soooooo... my toilet is still clogged...

    (PLUMBER) well, last time I tried that one product and it didn't work.

    (OP) can you try another product.

    (PLUMBER) no, I already tried one.

    (OP) can you try another one.

    (PLUMBER) What are you insane?! I've got no time for that. As I said, I tried one!

    (OP) well, what can I do? It's stinks here. Please help!

    (PLUMBER) How about I send you a bunch of product perks and you do it yourself

    (OP) I suppose I could... But you are a plumber... I'll pay you a lot. Please help!

    (PLUMBER) I've got no time for that! Go read the manuals and do it yourself! I'm busy decorating my lawn here! Do you want me to send you a gnome for your lawn?

    I find your Plumber analogy amusing, but not really relevant here. I know you THINK it is but you are wrong. Let me point another salient fact out to you. This game is a luxury item to you and I. It is a diversion, a way to kill some time. For bEhavior and the DEV it is their jobs on the line. They have a view of the game that none of ever see, and their very paychecks are bet against doing the right thing which means making sure the rough balance OVERALL is healthy for the game's continued existence. Nobody has a greater vested interest in making DbD work than they do. In short, your comments are foolish. We can take the ongoing success of DbD as supporting evidence of the fact that they do know something about what they are doing. We only see the things we WANT based on personal bias. They see the things they must do. Are they incapable of error? No, of course not. Are there things I'd love them to do? Absolutely, but I also understand that they move in their own way at their own speed for their own reasons.

    In regards to Player Agency, those in the role of Killer want (and need) just as much free choice as those in the role of Survivor. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing just a chase Bot. Killers have very few choices to make in the game as opposed to Survivors, and mostly it boils down to who to chase and when, when to defend (camp) and when not to go hunt and pressure. Everything they do is a variation of these limited options. If we taking away their right to defend (camp) then we have made them Bots, and no different from the old Ghosts that used to run patterns in Pac Man. Nobody is going to be interested in doing that for long. Without enough Killers, this game dies. So it is time for you to put on your grown up pants and spend more time practicing your BASICS in game and less on your funny analogies.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @KrosseKrabbePizza said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188647#Comment_2188647

    Thank you! Finally someone understands. I was even writing it in the title, what they COULD do, if they wanted to.

    But hey lets bash the people and their ideas for no reason instead, right?

    We understand, far better than you know or do yourself. Game balance is a harsh mistress. A little research on your part will reveal to you the DEV have done all sorts of things, with extensive testing. There are things already in the game to encourage Killers to other behaviors and penalize them for staying too close to the hook. What there has been a drop in is Survivors who make safe rescues, take protection hits, steal chases, trade hooks, and all the painful hard choices it takes for a team to beat a an individual. I play both Survivor and Killer, so my views on this are not biased toward one or the other. I manage to get out of MORE games alive than dead playing Solo. I run into the same number of Campers and those that Tunnel as you do statistically. Why am I not in a rage and urging ridiculous punishments? Why is it I and countless others manage to rise to the occasion and get by in the face of adversity?

    The tone and language of your original post is rude and not constructive at all. What makes you think that the DEV would listen to you with an approach like that? Constructive, civil feedback is better. Accusing them of kissing asses is merely going to get them to stop reading and move on. At that point, they figure you are the Moderator's problem. I'm eating my dinner, so I'm not going to give you a long lesson on how to deal with your problems, other than to suggest that blaming YOUR problems and failures on other Players or the game is holding you back. You have to take responsibility for your part in every hook you sit on, and start to work on what YOU can do to mitigate the things you are having trouble with. There will be no Deus Ex Machina from the DEV. This is the game; it is YOUR job to figure out how to thrive here.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @tester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188607#Comment_2188607

    "Tunneling and camping are valid strategies and are not going anywhere." - So, allow me to explain what I think OP means. I think it's obvious to everyone that those are valid strategies right now. He is saying that perhaps developers could make those strategies INVALID. And replace them with other equally VALID strategies that would be more fun for everyone.

    That's like calling a plumber and saying:

    • (OP) my toiled is clogged and it stinks
    • (YOU) of course it's clogged and stinks because shot stinks and you popped in it.
    • (OP)...
    • (YOU) that shot is not going anywhere and so is stink
    • (OP) how about you fix it by unclogging it? maybe? just a thought...
    • (YOU) no! clogged toilets always stunk and so you should get used to it!

    And you make the assumption that the DEV haven't already looked into tested and tested again multiple strategies to that effect. In every test (time and time again) the methods were abused by Survivors, didn't really stop Camping or Tunneling and had the added problem of costing us Killers and making Queues unbearable. The DEV have gone a different route and accept those strategies are part of Player Agency, i.e. play style and put things in to reward Killers for other behaviors and to make doing so slightly less BP profit. In turn, they give Survivors a METRIC TON of things to use against Camping and Tunneling and all that jazz.

    What some Players seem to ignore (or perhaps are actually ignorant of) is that you have everything you need to deal with those tactics yourselves. They gave you the knives and forks, but it is up to you to tackle that steak.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @KrosseKrabbePizza said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188607#Comment_2188607

    Why is that your opinion? In my experience, the best killer don´t need no Noed, Camping or Tunneling at all. They just beat the ######### out of every team. We are by the way a decent SWF, not top notch but we know what to do and 3/4 of us know how to loop a killer for some time.

    You didn't ask me, but I'm going to give my two cents anyway. Pulsar knows this game and has been around a long time (longer than me). His commentary is bang on the nose. I suspect my time, hours in game, dwarfs yours, and his dwarfs mine. Experience can be a tricky thing to reference as "evidence" for support to your assertions since there are people who have been here for FOUR years and most of them also will tell you the same thing Pulsar did.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • The real "problem" isn't Tunneling or Camping per say but rather that a Player is bored and feeling left out. That is the nature of this game, something that we simply must accept. I think the real solution is something radical that doesn't require rebalancing the entire game. I think the person on the hook should end up in a game within a game. This isn't purely my idea, but rather something born of a discussion I had with someone else who made claims (and comments) very much like yours. Imagine if the following change was made:

    1. Stage-1 remains the same as it is now. The Survivor can sit on the hook and wait for his/her Teammates to save them or choose to try to unhook themselves at the risk of accelerating the arrival of the Entity and Stage-2.
    2. Stage-2 is fundamentally different. While everyone else sees the Survivor struggling on the hook, trying to hold off the Entity's talons, that Player is utterly unaware of the game in progress and is locked in a metaphysical battle with the Entity. That Player is now inside a game within a game. The simple Skill Checks are replaced by an intense, relatively difficult series of puzzles or perhaps even a fighting game, where the Survivor can attempt to earn additional time or even manage a tremendously difficult unhook. This would have the benefit of giving the Player something interesting to do, not just sit on the hook watching other people, and the ability to EARN that extra time (or even an escape) that you mention. This would address the REAL problem which is boredom or the feeling of impotence. The interesting thing is if/when you are unhooked by another Survivor before you fail inside this inner battle, you would be ripped away from the Entity's grasp and snapped back into perception of the main match which you rejoin.
    3. From a coding standpoint, a game within a game, something that only connects to the overall match in minimal way, would be less demanding on the code staff, as it does not really need to be intimately tied into the existing spaghetti code. I've been giving thought to the nature of this game within a game, but I'm not done with my own personal design suggestions yet. And to be honest, my ideas for that aspect of it are unimportant. I'm sure our large, imaginative Player base could come up with lots of things (and perhaps lots of radical little games within a game would be another facet as you never know what you will be doing in this personal battle with the Entity will entail).

    My view is that right now we are all approaching this the wrong way, i.e. trying to find ways to balance (an impossible task) getting rid of time on the hook, when what we need to be doing is making the time on the hook more interesting.

    in How could Devs decrease the amount of tunnlers and campers if they wanted to? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Nathan13 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188500#Comment_2188500

    12 seconds dosen't make that much of a difference so I can live with it. And no I didn't look at your posts all I said was I appreciated that you were advocating for BT.

    Fair enough, and for my part I apologize for landing on you like a ton of bricks. I just don't like the false dichotomy of the "us versus them" and it triggers me a bit. I think it should be avoided.

    in Anyone else hate the new BT? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Nathan13 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188443#Comment_2188443

    I'm not trying to be obnoxious I'm just saying there are a lot of killers who actually did this to prevent BT from triggering. I mean I appreciate you at least advocating for the change because you saw how abusive it was. And now BT is perfectly balanced. Yes I think it could've been based on proximity range but killers like Billy, spirit and hag can transfer back to the hook in 2 seconds. So I can see why they made it so you always get endurance.

    And if you were paying attention to the posts you would have clearly seen it is mostly Survivor Players who are talking about reverting it because they liked the 15 seconds in many cases. So your theory falls apart there too. I don't care what you think, but posts like yours are bait and perpetuate something that doesn't actually exist.

    in Anyone else hate the new BT? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Nathan13 said:

    anyone who is against the new BT probably stealth camped hook before the change... just saying.

    I'm going to comment on this because it is ill-thought out and a foolish thing to say. It perpetuates this notion of "us versus them" and that Players here only want what is good for them personally. This is somewhat offensive, and entirely wrong. Most long term Players here play both roles and are interested in the overall health of the game. Your behavior is just obnoxious... just saying.

    I'll use myself as an example. If you were to go back through my posts (quite a long time for example) I've been a big proponent of changing Borrowed Time so that it is based on range rather than Terror Radius. I have many posts to this effect, and many of them predate Borrowed Time even being seriously considered for a rework. I play Spooky Myers as my main Killer, i.e. the Build which NEVER has a Terror Radius.

    That's right, I was advocating (forever) to take away what I felt was an undeserved immunity to Borrowed Time simply because I am Undetectable. I also know I'm not the only one. Obnoxious little baits like your unnecessary comment do very little to improve the overall civility of this Forum.

    in Anyone else hate the new BT? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Toblerone007 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188386#Comment_2188386

    Yes that what I thought. I was debating what's correct - not what works for me/you. I actually put a lot of good stuff in previous post. Should read it :) I showed you the same respect.

    Well then the world can rejoice Moundshroud and Toblerone are in agreeance with something for once lmao.

    I did read it. I just didn't have anything to say to it, as I don't have those issues. I'm not saying you don't. You will note I'm not trying to shoot holes in it, as those are your experiences.

    in So you really think spirit don't need a nerf? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Toblerone007 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188230#Comment_2188230

    I'm very impressed I feel like you've actually given me an inch.

    I really do think we're playing a different game and for the record for anybody reading I'll give my take on the game and my knowledge of spirit (again hours upon hours of playing her and versing her):

    Looping her is one of the most different out of all the killers at any tile. Firstly, let's debunk your chases with spirit. If we were in a scrim and this is going to sound blunt (but understand it's correct) you're going to get hit every single time using your strategies unless I've encountered a sound bug or I've made a blunder. Scratch marks don't make spirit powerful. At all. I can hear your breathing, grunting, footsteps, environmental sounds grass and if you have walked I'm going to get out of phase immediately. Walking you have gained no distance. The way spirits deal with your strat (it will not work against a good spirit) is to use phase walk in small bursts in positions where you have nowhere to evade if you choose to walk or run and have me catch up following scratch marks. Understand, once you're found you don't get to choose when spirit phases. Good Spirits are going to phase when it's the correct play.

    You used channelling as an example of spirits weakness. Spirit should not channel if survivors are in los if they have shown to be competent and are holding w with you out of phase. Instead, only phase walk at loops where they're not actively gaining distance. Reason is exactly what you stated before: "The time to initiate a Haunt is more than enough for me to immediately start walking." Good spirits will not ever let you do this. That is such waste of her power.

    " It is easier for the Survivor to guess where she will reappear and swing than it is for her to guess where you will go." How though? That is almost like projecting your mishaps PLAYING as spirit to the table. I'm sorry but nobody is going to agree with you on that. It's so untrue.You're assuming the killer doesn't know the routes survivor's are going to take and that's before audio cues come into it. Spirit has the audio cues. Survivor doesn't.

    " I've found that many Spirits will not try to Haunt against Survivors in a chase and just Loop with you because of the issues." What issues?!?!?! Spirit SHOULD be phase walking at loops. That's what makes her S tier. The fact that no matter how good of a looper you are, spirit can hit you consistently at every loop without input from the survivor. Good spirit vs. good survivor. It's zoning by the spirit then hit pressure everytime she starts to phase (or fakes the phase at the short pallet loops ;)). This is a nuts claim dude. Making spirit go around terrain is not enough at all.

    I'm not like the other survivor whiners here. I never said she has no counter play. I've said she has the most limited counterplay compared to all the killers in the game. Easily.

    I'll address your dot points:

    1) I mean sure it could happen. For me, I'd be guilty of this before I found out it's spirit. You can hear spirits phase notification so I would start walking. Spirit doesn't have the closed distance yet for hit pressure. That might be what gets the ball rolling against bad survivors but spirit dominates good survivors. Why?

    2) That's a good habit though. You want survivors to stop progressing generators even though they're not under pressure? I see what you mean by it being spirit/ good nurse. You want to get out of los without any tracking because not initiating a chase is the best course with those killers. Understand, you're never going to get people to do this because it increases the length of the match. If everyone is playing the way you see this game survivors lose pressure and for what? Hoping you don't get found by spirit/nurse?

    3) I'm going to ignore the generalisation and the insult to 'survivors'. Those damn pesky survivors. Hmph. Lesser beings. Filth (spits). You'd be suprised how much information is correlating in the mind thinking 5 minutes ahead of time in a good ol fashion 5 rank 1 dbd match. Moving on. There are enough tracking perks and tracking abilities base that stop your perfect scenario of spirit phasing around a hexagon shape checking the gens while survivors hop on and off them. It's a crazy sentiment. This isn't Scooby-Doo. Like how stupid would the spirit be to have a game fly like this. What kind of killers do you play against??

    Now let's assume we have a good spirit player against 4 good survivor players. My point is that if you implore your strategies (which aren't going to work even though it isn't bad advice to someone struggling with spirit) you still will lose. Watch some spirit gameplay there is some great content on this.

    I think you are under the impression I'm debating you; in this case I'm not. I am merely offering you what works for me. You can use it or not. I've said I think the Spirit needs a tweak or two, but not as much as most people think. We are in agreement that she does need something done. What we aren't in agreement about is that she is unbeatable. I know that for a fact, and so do you. People manage to get out against her all the time. I've told you what works for me, and I hope it helps. I don't know what else to tell you. :)

    in So you really think spirit don't need a nerf? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Man_of_triangles said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188222#Comment_2188222

    Not really possible to get good as a survivor. Five years in and you still can't deploy solo into a map and try to learn the loops, or practice throwing hatchets, or what have you. Other games in the genre had this stuff day one.

    Sure you can. Create an secondary account log into the game from a different station than you normally play. Create a custom game and join it with your main account which is friends with your secondary account. Memorize and practice the map to your hearts content. Or get one friend to do it with that isn't you.

    in Killers need to understand that the game is so biased towards killers atm Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Toblerone007 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188127#Comment_2188127

    Yes but what happens when you're forced to interact with spirit?

    "you handle them the way you do any others"

    That's a little vague cmon. I was implying that it's inevitable to get into a chase with spirit. You might go down like a sack of potatoes like the stealth build blendettes I see but that still makes the game only easier for spirit.

    I rest my case at your perk selections and again I'm not trying to have a go at you for your build but that is really hurting your team if you run that in a high ranked game especially against spirit. Like if I saw that endbuild after depipping to a spirit rolling my team and myself, you'd be getting flamed. My point is spirit is too good. I see the same names, same rank 1 and same builds. Outcome is an L everytime. If player stats were released I'd be highly intrigued to see some of these spirits win rates, game times etc. etc. Spirit needs a change.

    It isn't unavoidable to get into chases with the Killer. I do it all the time against all the Killers, and suffer in my Emblems because of it. I'm very active in my teams, doing Generators, safe rescues, healing and what not, but I don't always rack up chase time because I am 1) only a competent Looper, and 2) feel that Looping is what you do when a plan falls apart. I enjoy the cat and mouse, hide and seek game. I realize not everyone does, but that is my bias and why I'm probably good at it. You are always good at something you enjoy more than what you do not.

    All that being said, of course I've been in chases with the Spirit. It is difficult never to get into chases at all, impossible even. But I haven't found her to be any different in Looping than any other Killer. Haunting mid chase is not simple for her as it is for the Nurse. The time to initiate a Haunt is more than enough for me to immediately start walking (still watching her to see if it is a fake). If it isn't, my walking doesn't give her a perfect trail and I've hard turned some direction (sometimes right back toward her) as soon as she vanishes. I'm still not running, and if she pops right back out to try and hit where she thinks I am, chances are she misses. She misses more often than not. It is easier for the Survivor to guess where she will reappear and swing than it is for her to guess where you will go. And let's be direct and to the point. Terrain, vaults and what not, make the Killer who is Haunting have to go around. Thus you can also narrow down which routes she will have to follow once she vanishes. I've found that many Spirits will not try to Haunt against Survivors in a chase and just Loop with you because of the issues. When this happens, you just loop them like a normal Killer. You just keep an eye on them for whenever they start to Haunt (or fake a Haunt).

    Look, I get it. You think she is too powerful. I agree she is top Tier, without a doubt. That doesn't mean she has no counter play like people USED to say all the time. She does have counter play, very basic, straight forward counter play. Most Survivors just don't like doing it. Survivors LIKE to do the following, all of which are the OPPOSITE of what you should do against a Spirit:

    1. Survivors running everywhere they go to maximize time when they don't see the Killer. This leaves a trail that a Spirit just randomly traversing the map picks up.
    2. Survivors like milking every last second out of working on Generators and thus don't like leaving them immediately. If they aren't certain the Killer is coming they want to keep going.
    3. Survivors like being reactive rather than proactive. Against the Spirit you have to think like the Killer, NOT a Survivor. The nature of the Spirit's high mobility is that it is only efficient by taking the best routes and avoiding terrain that makes you constantly have to go around things. Thus, most Spirits when running routes on Generators (when they don't know where you are) are cutting through large open areas and taking the shortest distance between two lines. The idea is to get from point to point to point and pick up trails while doing so. This means Survivors need to move around slowly and take those paths the least efficient for the Spirit (which are also less efficient for them). Do you see where I'm going with this?
    in So you really think spirit don't need a nerf? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Mineguy said:

    https://youtu.be/UYlbUNQSfZQ

    This a match I played a few minutes ago. I know I did a few mistakes but please tell me how swf groups like them are fair.

    I know not every group is like this but it's just sad that stuff like this is even possible...

    SWF (Survivors W/Friends) is kind of a red herring. To hear those people in a SWF describe it, they are just a bunch of friends who enjoy playing together. It isn't about the competitive edge, and we shouldn't assume that. When it is pointed out that the CUSTOM GAME option exist specifically so you can go play with your friends, and that everything is unlocked and doesn't cost you any BP (and so on) they get testy and suddenly insist they cannot find anymore friends to round out a complete group of five.

    I play Solo mostly, but I do have a group of friends that SWF together now and then. Like everyone else we called out the Killer's position, where we saw objectives, coordinated our actions, and so on. We found quickly that the competitive edge was overwhelming. In general, on those rare occasions we play our rule is that we talk about anything OTHER than the game while on Comms. But more often than that, we go and play CUSTOM GAMES. We have found that our problem isn't getting enough people together, but often having too many so some of us spectate and wait their turn to cycle into the game. We enjoy the custom games more than regular matches because nobody gets testy, we can use smack talk, and they truly are just for fun. You can get away with certain behaviors among friends because there is trust.

    SWF Players who insist on playing in normal matches do it for the competitive edge. There is no point ins saying otherwise; why lie? It is true that not all SWF are equal, and many of them are still pretty bad as Players. However, they still have the competitive edge, and the longer they play together the better they get and the more honed that advantage becomes. Is it fair? That is a moot question in DbD because very little about this game is fair. Things just are they way they are and you adapt or die. What the SWF are is problematic. They are a bigger issue in that their existence and GROWING numbers are slowly but surely strangling Solo Players. Killers don't like facing a competitive edge and resent it, but they tend to adapt. The problem is that adapting to fight a SWF increases the amount of... you guessed it... Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging. Those three things are the most effective counter to a SWF, because normal play of Generator Pressure and basics are entirely stymied by the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms). So, Killers play meaner these days because they MUST play mean to get the same results. Killers have no idea who is in a SWF or not, because they don't tell us. Thus, most Killers go into every game assuming it is a SWF.

    I've often suggested, and will continue to do so, that the best solution to the SWF balance issue is as follows:

    1. Unlock a 5th Perk Slot for Killers whenever they face a SWF of 3+. This also informs the Killer it is a SWF and thus when that doesn't happen they don't have to play rattlesnake mean against Solo.
    2. Test this solution for a bit and if it is enough, great! If it isn't, other things may be added or tried such as adding an additional Generator requirement for SWF to open the gates.
    3. Ideally, I would love to see SWF set that they only work in either a group of (2) which are treated as Solos, and don't trigger a bonus to the Killer, or must be a group of (4) and do. I think the 3-Person SWF is a detriment to the game and punishes the Solos in a horrible way. I think their existence and how they treat the Red Shirt Solo has created a lot of angst and distrust among Solo Players. They hate SWF more than Killers do. :)
    in How is swf fair in any way? Comment by Moundshroud

  • I'm going to chime in on this, but only briefly. It appears the original poster's PRIMARY use for the Perk was to do objectives or make rescues in the Killer's face. If removing it is now his/her first reaction to the change, then Tunneling was never really the concern. To a large degree, we have heard all of this before, and I'm sure we will hear it again. Tunneling was always the EXCUSE certain Players used as an argument against changing DS and their complaint after DS was changed, but is CLEAR now that Tunneling was always a red herring. This confirms the change to the Perk was the right thing to do. If you want DS to discourage (note I said discourage not stop) the Killer from going right for the same person, take the Perk. You should still WANT your teammates to perform safe rescues whenever possible, and be ready to take protection hits and/or a hook for you.

    in ######### is going on with decisive strike? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Toblerone007 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187692#Comment_2187692

    How little pressure has the spirit created if that's your typical match? You've stated a good play to make into spirit in that given situation but that is such a small part of the overall game.

    What happens when you need to make a save?

    What happens when somebody is slugged and spirit is chasing somebody else?

    Two hooks at the same time?

    Two slugged survivors?

    The person being chased by spirit has ran her to your location?

    I could go on but you get my point. I know you're a killer main and you're advice to rotate away from spirit is correct but doesn't that say something about the killer? This game is setup so survivors get found somebody eventually has to take chase and that's where the snowball starts taking shape.

    You admitted spirit needs change is enough for me; I'm trying to say your survival of lots of spirit games is not an indication of her current balance. I'm that sweaty thousand hour grind the game out cos I'm addicted level of survivor and I can assure you that spirit has caused me more issues than a really good nurse. They're in the masses much more than a good nurse. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

    That said, I'll load up on console with my low elo account and play against spirit anyday with my mates. Then I'll start surviving every spirit match with what you described above ^.

    I said I don't remember the last time I died, but I know I don't die every match, and in fact survive more of them than I die in. As to all of your questions, you handle them the same way you do any others. Chiefly I don't run much against the Spirit and use evasion (Stealth) far more than I Loop. I'm not saying that Spirit isn't good; she is. I'm saying that I counter her with basics involving not feeding her Haunting. In normal looping she isn't that different from any other Killer. Haunting isn't as effective as say a Nurse's blinking in a normal chases. To be blunt, I hate fighting Blight far more than I hate fighting Spirit. It may just be that my play style is good against her and bad against him.

    But I still cannot stress enough that you rotate with Spirit constantly, and accept that the game will be longer. You use evasion, and you AVOID running whenever possible. While I don't use the Perk: Urban Evasion, I expect it would be quite good against her. My standard Survivor Build is as following:

    Calm Spirit, Iron Will, Spine Chill, and Self Care. *Self Care is in the wildcard position, and changed out often for whatever I think I need special for a match. The first three are ALWAYS in my lineup. Since I run when I must, rather than as a default way of getting around the match, a Haunting Spirit NEVER picks up my trail by pure luck moving around to pop out on top of me.

    in So you really think spirit don't need a nerf? Comment by Moundshroud

  • The weird thing is I would rather face Spirit than several other Killers. Do I think she needs some tweaks? Sure, but I don't think it is because she has no counter play. I don't remember the last time I died to a Spirit. I should add the caveat that the Perk: Spine Chill is auto-include in my Builds. This is how a typical game against Spirit goes for me:

    1. I start work on a Generator.
    2. Spine Chill flashes.
    3. I IMMEDIATELY, with no exceptions, start WALKING away from the Generator toward some terrain.
    4. Once around the corner or obscured I then go into a run as far and directly away as I can.
    5. The Spirit haunts in to the Gen and sees no Red Marks because I walked away initially.
    6. The Killer does a little bit of a look around, kicks the Generator and haunts out again.

    That's it. That happens on repeat over and over again. I play Solo so I am assuming the other Survivors are doing something of the same note, because I escape more matches against Spirit than I die in them. In general, people just keep rotating off Generators as the Spirit tries to haunt in and a slower, attrition method of bringing the Generators takes place. The key tactic is you NEVER EVER wait or try to ride the lightning by hoping she isn't coming to you. The second you hear the haunting begin, or Spine Chill triggers you start rotating. It is very effective against the Spirit. More to the point, if you aren't having to run everywhere, she has no red marks to follow and thus can't line up on your trajectory to "hear" you and come out of haunting for the hit.

    in So you really think spirit don't need a nerf? Comment by Moundshroud

  • I think the current timer is more than enough. The problem is everyone wants to use BT and considers their job done at unhook because they had the Perk. Survivors should still be taking that protection hit or chase to keep the Killer on them and not the person they just unhooked. It is almost as if people see bringing BT as an excuse not to have to do anything else in that rescue. More to the point, an additional three seconds will make ZERO difference. If the Killer was willing to chase you for twelve seconds, he/she will chance you for fifteen. Reverting it isn't the issue. The mindset of the Survivors making the rescues is the issue, and this weird reluctance to trade hooks (or at least risk trading hooks).

    People want TOO much from the Perk, which is why the person who got BT suddenly body blocks for the other. There is this perception that the rescue should always result in both the unhooked and unhooker getting away. That is unrealistic outside of a truly safe rescue.

    in Anyone else hate the new BT? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @wxnickxw said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186624#Comment_2186624

    While the two may be different he was clear that any buff or nerf needs to be addressed in both sides unless it was to op. He clearly stated that if you read his post

    And as for your distinction between a perk being a coded mechanic and a tactic, hate to break it to you but hook timers are also a coded mechanic, so is movement speed by the way your distinction between a coded mechanic perk and a coded mechanic tactic is meaningless. To illustrate the survivor use of ds was a tactic wherein they would purposefully get caught to trigger ds. This was addressed by changing the coded mechanic of the perk. Our discussion on addressing camping is the same, the tactic being addressed is camping the hook timer the coded mechanic.

    I know in your mind camping is sme sore of holy tactic of the killer and I'm sure that the ds abuse was just something minor in your view because you like camping that much more but they both remain tactics that were addressed by altering the game's mechanica

    Please do not presume to assign motives to me. I'm a very direct, open person and if I have motives I state them. Your behavior is offensive when you do it, although I will grant you aren't aware of this because I'm not exactly rank in file in my reactions to things. I do not "like" Camping, Tunneling, or Slugging, or any tactic more or less than another. These things are merely tools and I have no attachment to them one way or another. What is important to me is Player agency exist and the option to use them exists. I actually utilize them infrequently as I like to set personal challenges to my play to keep it fresh. I don't do this for any false morality or artificial moray but simply for my own entertainment. The long and the short of it is you don't know the first thing about me, even after all our conversations. I still find this odd because I'm a fairly open book, and I state my biases up front.

    I think Pulsar's choice of words was accidental and unfortunate. He used "compensation" when what he clearly was getting at was an overall game balance levy. You leapt upon his statement as if he was indicating that Killer Players require personal compensation for losing something to placate them, when he was in fact talking about avoiding having to rebalance the entire game around unintended consequences of the changes. The alteration to DS, for example, didn't alter game balance in any significant way. The only thing that has changed is some Players, who took it for doing objectives in the Killer's face, have stopped taking it. That turn of events is PLAYER driven, i.e. part of agency, and not because either side is forced into adapting to a new normal. Are you able to follow this?

    You have an unfortunate habit of missing the forest for the trees. I've watched you do it at length in our debates, and I've been paying attention when you talk to others as well because I wanted to determine if this is a rhetorical ruse or simply because you are an overly literal person and "big picture" context is obscured from you. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that is a "big picture" problem. Thus, when Pulsar used the word compensation, you used one (the most common) definition of the term and misunderstood him when he was (in context) talking about something else entirely.

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @ReviloDBD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186865#Comment_2186865

    This is exactly what happened in multiple games in a row the last two days with my Solo Qeue AND SWF Experience.. which is why I decided to make this post today lol. It genuinely does make Survivor not fun to play, even though up until now I always had the bias that Survivors had it Easier than Killers in DBD - that in my mind is still true OVERALL - but I do find it upsetting when Killers that can still get a 4K without tunneling (because of how good they are) decide to tunnel anyways and just make it for a really poor gaming experience for the rest of us.

    --- Although after having read now most of all of the responses in this Thread..

    MY BIGGEST TAKEAWAY FROM ALL OF THIS IS

    Apparently WAY MORE KILLERS TUNNEL than I thought. I must be like, one of the only Killers in this game that actually thinks Tunneling is bad and should be avoided whenever possible. I swear to ALL of you reading this, I actually had no idea that I was such a minority on this issue, in fact I just thought that most respectful Killers felt the same way as me. This is a pretty big shock to me lol but at least now I'm starting to understand why I'm getting so much negative feedback on my suggestions.

    And I apologize by the way, I do not mean any harm by it. I can absolutely promise you that you can "Win" over 50% of your matches, whether that means getting +1 Pip or at least 2-4K in Red Ranks without ever using Tunneling as a Method if you continue playing until you figure out your own way of doing so, IF you would like to, but I understand now that most of you WOULD NOT like to , and in that case I don't want to be the one to suggest something to take away that crutch from you.

    I just really wish there was at least SOMETHING that a player who gets tunneled by a Killer from the start of the game can do so that it isn't such a completely miserable experience for that one particular player.

    Please, at least accept that this is a problem that should have some kind of better solution, and perhaps even try to input something constructive that could help <3

    I don't really have much comment on your status as to being what amounts to a savant as Killer. As someone who plays within the Red Ranks almost exclusively, aside from when the weird MMR tests happen and let us all "taste the rainbow," I can assure you being able to give everyone three hooks 50% of the time is an astounding level of skill. I don't think the takeaway for you should be that Killers tunnel more than you thought, but rather that your stated abilities comes off as a rather impressive "flex" whether you know it or not. To put it in context, the Superstars of this game, Streamers like Otz and his ilk, don't manage metrics like that consistently.

    The real "problem" isn't Tunneling or Camping per say but rather that a Player is bored and feeling left out. That is the nature of this game, something that we simply must accept. I think the real solution is something radical that doesn't require rebalancing the entire game. I think the person on the hook should end up in a game within a game. This isn't purely my idea, but rather something born of a discussion I had with someone else who made claims (and comments) very much like yours. Imagine if the following change was made:

    1. Stage-1 remains the same as it is now. The Survivor can sit on the hook and wait for his/her Teammates to save them or choose to try to unhook themselves at the risk of accelerating the arrival of the Entity and Stage-2.
    2. Stage-2 is fundamentally different. While everyone else sees the Survivor struggling on the hook, trying to hold off the Entity's talons, that Player is utterly unaware of the game in progress and is locked in a metaphysical battle with the Entity. That Player is now inside a game within a game. The simple Skill Checks are replaced by an intense, relatively difficult series of puzzles or perhaps even a fighting game, where the Survivor can attempt to earn additional time or even manage a tremendously difficult unhook. This would have the benefit of giving the Player something interesting to do, not just sit on the hook watching other people, and the ability to EARN that extra time (or even an escape) that you mention. This would address the REAL problem which is boredom or the feeling of impotence. The interesting thing is if/when you are unhooked by another Survivor before you fail inside this inner battle, you would be ripped away from the Entity's grasp and snapped back into perception of the main match which you rejoin.
    3. From a coding standpoint, a game within a game, something that only connects to the overall match in minimal way, would be less demanding on the code staff, as it does not really need to be intimately tied into the existing spaghetti code. I've been giving thought to the nature of this game within a game, but I'm not done with my own personal design suggestions yet. And to be honest, my ideas for that aspect of it are unimportant. I'm sure our large, imaginative Player base could come up with lots of things (and perhaps lots of radical little games within a game would be another facet as you never know what you will be doing in this personal battle with the Entity will entail).

    My view is that right now we are all approaching this the wrong way, i.e. trying to find ways to balance (an impossible task) getting rid of time on the hook, when what we need to be doing is making the time on the hook more interesting.

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Mandy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186869#Comment_2186869

    I want a sus face emote here for that! I get tunnelled and mori'd in game enough thanks - don't think I need more of it just because of my job LOL

    Good point. :)

    in I think I just killed a dev Comment by Moundshroud

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186869#Comment_2186869

    Honestly imagine a large charm just saying "DEV" then small letters above it go "i killed a"

    @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186869#Comment_2186869

    Honestly imagine a large charm just saying "DEV" then small letters above it go "i killed a"

    Yeah.. I'd be cool with that too... but damn... those shirts look good. :)

    in I think I just killed a dev Comment by Moundshroud

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186850#Comment_2186850

    Time to get a job at bhvr these look sick-

    Agreed. I think if we, playing Killer, manage to kill one of these guys in a match, one of our Survivors should get the shirt, with the only change it says "Honorary Crew" on the back. :)

    in I think I just killed a dev Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Gay Myers (Luzi) said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186631#Comment_2186631

    Okay, to clarify some confusion, it's this shirt you mean I assume:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2LC3N9BOM7RB/image.png

    This is only available to people that are developers and moderators. It cannot be obtained under normal circumstances. On the back it says "Crew."

    Thank you for clarifying. This is good to know. SOMEDAY I'll pull one. I want my video trophy. :)

    in I think I just killed a dev Comment by Moundshroud

  • @ReviloDBD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186776#Comment_2186776

    Not a single person has actually given any legitimate explanation/evidence/examples that make sense and can't be countered rather easily, that's all. I just honestly believe people are not thinking it through completely, either that or they just don't WANT this to be something that is changed, despite all of the evidence that I on the other hand have provided toward why it would be good for the game.

    I am here because I am completely 100% open to discussion.

    Most people that are responding "against" my idea, are not providing any real reason or evidence or specific examples as to why.

    That is not a discussion, that is just someone stating "No" without giving any actual reason behind it sort of like when parents say "Because I said so." lol

    Look, I made this post because I wanted to spend some time offering up a suggestion that I PERSONALLY thought would make the game better for all of us. I explained myself, I gave scenarios, and provided evidence to back up my thoughts. Then, I asked for your opinions.

    By the way, Thank You for taking the time to share your opinions! ^^ I appreciate it, and that's fine, like I said, I am willing to have a discussion about it.

    But until someone can ACTUALLY say something that straight up 100% Proves me wrong and I read it and think to myself "Oh wow, omg, I am such an idiot this was a terrible idea why did I even bother writing it!?" Well until that happens, I'm just here trying to have an open discussion about it with everyone that's willing to participate and I'll respond with my thoughts to your thoughts ^^

    The problem is you are conflating several things:

    1. You see this as a Buff to both roles because your idea feeds the Killer free hooks and thus more Blood Points and Pips. However, many Killers do not rate their victories that way. Many of us have played so long and accumulated so much stuff that Blood Points mean nothing to us. Moreover, once you reach a certain Skill, have climbed that mountain, Rank is likewise meaningless. What you are suggesting is "bribing" or "paying off" the Killer for what amounts to escapes for 3+ Survivors. Most Killers, particularly those who have been playing a good long time, want the kills, not your payoff.
    2. Pulsar did explain why your idea fails. I'll try to restate it in a way you understand more clearly. Your method allows Survivors to "swap hooks" with zero risk. Currently a good team swaps hooks all the time, but they have to earn it. Someone has to leave a Generator (which gives the Killer some pressure) get to the Hook, make the save, and take either a protection hit and/or their on time on the hook to grant a respite for the one they just saved. Using your method they never have to leave the Generator, robbing the Killer of the pressure provided by people having to make rescues and further accelerating the Gen-Rush. More to the point, they can cycle these swapped hooks in a way that always maximizes the survivability of the entire group and thus make it harder on the Killer to ever make tactical eliminations. Your idea is a huge give away to Survivors as it puts all the real choices in their hands.
    3. It can be abused massively in combination to gear as well. Consider Keys. Granted the Gen-Rush acceleration your method provides (no one is ever off Generators) they can be down to one Generator in record time. The extra time and people with the right gear can always locate the hatch, the Key bearer can be in place, and a massive exodus will be almost impossible to stop. I could name about six more off the top of my head which abuse the hell out of Gear.

    I'm going to stop there because I don't really trust you, nor do I think you are actually open minded about this at all. I'm not going to give this a proper treatment only to have you pretend not to understand it when Pulsar and MadLordJack already explained the problems and you just ignored them (or pretended not to understand them). Your method triples down on the Generator Rush issue that is already aggravated by SWF. You all but guarantee that no Survivor has to go for the save until late game and everyone will just give away extra hook states while they bang away on Generators like madmen.

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @ReviloDBD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186635#Comment_2186635

    I mean, at Red Ranks I go out of my way to 12 Hook every match that I can, often screwing myself over trying to do so even. But it is certainly not impossible, I would say I have over 50% success rate and I have fun doing it.

    Again, I actually cannot seem to understand why people would consider this such a huge buff to Survivors, IF YOU ARE Trending to get a 4K match as a Killer, this actually shouldn't effect your success rate whatsoever. UNLESS You use Tunneling/Camping as your only Method of achieving that 4K .. but to be quite frank, if that is the type of Killer you are and you cannot complete getting your 12 Hooks without using those Tactics or Methods then you probably should be at a different Rank as Killer than you are now realistically speaking.

    It is painfully clear that you cannot understand why people (nearly EVERYONE responding to you) thinks your suggestion is a huge buff to Survivors. Your inability to understand it (or accept it) doesn't make it any less true. Let me emphasize a fact for you; everyone who has responded to you with over 2K+ hours in the game (all of whom have reached Red Rank in both Killer and Survivor) have been of basically the same opinion. Isn't it possible that some (perhaps even all) of them know what they are talking about?

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @Luciferr_2nd said:

    No one likes being camped or tunneled, i think we all understand how frustrating it is (apart from some entitled killer mains here)

    But i dont think there will ever be a solution to solve it, like at endgame where the killer has no other choice i feel like it is justified, or if theyre in a really bad spot maybe.

    So how do you allow that, but prevent camping/tunneling first hook at 5 gens? Its really tricky, it is depressing to get camped or tunneled at 5 gens, sometimes it makes you think if the killer even wants to have fun.

    You have to remember that Killers have tactics and tricks too, and sometimes what looks like Camping at five Generators (usually the first hook) is merely the Killer taking an assessment of the team's altruism. It also bear noting that most of the time Survivors incorrectly label things as Camping and Tunneling because of personal bias. The long and the short of the matter is that this game REQUIRES Player agency (for both roles) to work. Both sides are controlled by Players; there are not Bots. Nobody wants to be reduced to being just a Bot. Killers want the same ability to make choices, and express their own play style as Survivors do. If you take that away from them, you lose a significant number o them. This game, not having Bots to replace them, would grind to a halt or be so slow as to start dying.

    Thus, we accept that sometimes, some Killers are going to Camp, Tunnel, and Slug. It doesn't happen near as often as people seem to think it does. It doesn't really matter if it happens at all, as long as the choice is there for the Killer to make.

    in How would you solve camping and tunneling? Comment by Moundshroud

  • To be perfectly honest, I don't think either role needs to know much of anything about the other. I think the Killer should just see vague shadowy outlines of the Survivors. I think the Survivors should be able to see one another clearly but no name information until after the match. I don't think either side really needs to know much because some mystery is a good thing. It isn't as if you don't figure out who the Killer is almost immediately. :) But that is just me, by in large I don't think this is a huge problem either way and there are certainly more important things worth apply man hours and code to fixing.

    in why not let single player know some information about killer? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @HaunterofShadows said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186269#Comment_2186269

    People still complaining about DS? The most recent complaint about it I had seen was sluzzy complaining about it being nerfed.

    Yes, there are quite a few still complaining... but in fairness... they might ALL be Sluzzy. Who knows how many accounts he/she has to reiterate and repeat, like his/her own posts, and act as his/her own Shill. :)

    in How would you solve camping and tunneling? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @wxnickxw said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186535#Comment_2186535

    Got it ds overpowered OK to nerf, camping not overpowered do needs to nerf survivors to be fair. Do you have a list of overpowered things that can get a free nerf or is it one of those if the devs don't do a corresponding nerf it was overpowered.

    Also do the corresponding nerfs have a particular degree of nerfing that follows, for example if gen required 10 percent more time do killer regression perks have to be 10 percent less effective or is it just having a nerf good enough like 130 second gens and .025 of a percent regression penalty?

    I'm going to comment on this, but only briefly. You are trying to compare apples and oranges here, and slip it into your debate with Pulsar on the sly. You and I had this conversation. Decisive Strike is a PERK. Camping is a tactic, i.e. an aspect of Player agency, a matter of their personal play style. A Perk is a coded mechanic. A tactic is a manifestation of free will and personality. Please do not construe these things, nor pretend they are remotely the same. I'm sure you can make your argument and support it without mixing and matching two very different things.

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @ReviloDBD said:

    Hi Everyone! *** EXPLANATION UP TOP *** IDEA/SUGGESTION BELOW ***

    --- EXPLANATION --- You Can Find My Suggestion Below Thank You For Reading!!!

    I'm actually a Rank 1 Killer main so this suggestion or rather unique idea is coming from a Killer's perspective.

    I am not as good of a Survivor as I am Killer, I think my highest Survivor Rank is 5.

    One of the things that I noticed playing around that Rank as Survivor is that MANY Red Rank Killers do actually use Camping/Tunneling as a Method to get a 4K game.

    This was at first a bit surprising to me, as I myself have never personally used this Method as a Killer because not only do I consider it rude, but I also believe it takes the fun out of the game for both sides. I also have a belief that if you cannot secure a 4K game without camping/tunneling then you did not actually deserve it or earn it anyways, so I rather focus on improving my own gameplay to "win" and get better as a Killer than use such "strategies" to accomplish the results I would like to achieve.

    I do agree that there are SOME games where the Survivors are SO good and completely wreck me, especially a well coordinated SWF could easily accomplish this as I am not the best Killer, that I do occasionally wish that I would allow myself to Camp/Tunnel because it is literally the only possible Method to secure even one kill. Or sometimes there's the one person who is playing Toxic and knows where your Ruin is and keeps going for it in front of your face repeatedly, or flashlight saving their teammates, bodyblocking hook, etc, in those cases I will Kill that person first but they are asking for it. So there are exceptions, but it is few and far between.

    NOW - What I noticed is that other Killers that are Red Rank who I have seemed to be facing lately, EVEN when they are already Snowballing their Victory (as Nurse, Spirit, etc) , will Camp/Tunnel as hard as they possibly can, despite only 2-3 of us alive both injured with 3-4 gens left for example. They CLEARLY already have the 4K in the bag, and they still don't want to allow us to actually enjoy the game at all and stay near Hook then immediately Tunnel the Person who just got unhooked.

    Yesterday we were playing SWF and this happened over and over to us and even with all of us running BT and DS we still couldn't stop from being 4K'd (granted we are not the best Survivors but still) with like 3 gens left.

    --- SO HERE IS MY IDEA / SUGGESTION --- Please Let Me Know What You Guys Think!!!

    WHAT IF - When a Survivor is on their 3rd, Final Hook .. the OTHER Survivors in the Match get a Pop Up (for example, similar to a match invite) where they can CHOOSE to Press F1 (for example) to GIVE UP one of their OWN Hook States and give that Survivor another chance.

    Hypothetically the way this would work, is when a Survivor gets hooked on their 3rd & Final Hook State - for 10-15 Seconds there is an Option available for the OTHER Survivors to give them one of their Hook States (or lives) and by doing so they would LOSE One Hook State from their own and the Survivor that is Hooked will end up getting placed back into the "2nd Hook State" again where they are hanging and having to hit skill checks to stay alive. If NO ONE gives a Hook State then the Survivor just dies on Final Hook like before after the 10-15 seconds. Survivors are only able to Offer a Hook State if they have enough remaining (2 or 3 Hook States left).

    Because it is an OPTION, you don't HAVE to give if you don't want to for example if someone is trolling or suiciding on Hook then you can let them die instead of

    This would Benefit BOTH Survivors AND Killers because:

    For SURVIVORS it would allow the game to be more enjoyable, specifically when playing with friends that are at different skill levels. I cannot tell you how many times I have played SWF with friends that are just not as skilled at the game yet and end up being DEAD on 3rd Hook so quickly while me or possibly even everyone else still has 3 Hook States remaining. This would at least allow players to continue playing and enjoying the game as much as they can, Instead of having to sit there and Spectate the Match waiting for the rest of your team to slowly die or escape.

    For KILLERS it would allow a possibility to Score Higher, earn more Bloodpoints, and gain a +2 Pip easier. Why? Because I cannot tell you how many times as a Killer I have accidentally killed all 3 Survivors without even Hooking the 4th Survivor even once unintentionally just because that one last remaining Survivor played so much better or more stealthily. In situations like this I actually get upset, because for example if I am trying to +2 Pip, even if I Hook the 4th Survivor at the end of the game and secure the 4K, in most cases because I only Hooked him ONCE and not THREE times I actually get CLOSE to +2 Pip but still only +1 while trying to Rank.

    So without keeping track of EXACTLY how many times you Hook each Survivor, it can get pretty difficult for a Killer to make sure that they do Hook Each Survivor exactly 3 Times to secure Maximum Bloodpoints/Pip potential. With this new system in place, it would allow Killers to at least have a chance to complete each Sacrifice fully because if it counted as a HOOK when the last remaining Survivor offered up one of his Hook States to keep their teammate alive then it would be as if the Killer actually successfully got another Hook on the Survivor that gave up the state.

    The Best Part? It is Fairly Balanced to Benefit Both Sides.

    Survivors get a chance to keep their teammates in the game longer, which is not only more enjoyable but also helps keep pressure on Gens easier with the additional members.

    Killers get a free Hook State from another Survivor that they didn't even have to down.

    It keeps the game going longer, so more fun for everyone, and it makes games slightly more fair against Tunneling/Camping and Snowballing.

    And since it is OPTIONAL, no one is forced to do it unless they actually want to. It may not be "optional" for Killers, but that can even be open for discussion - although I think the whole point of this would be to prevent Killers from being able to take a person out of the game super early by ignoring all the other Survivors - and in my personal opinion that is perfectly fine and healthier for the game!

    No on so many levels I cannot begin to express this to the degree it requires. Moreover, I don't care about your personal views on Camping and/or Tunneling. They are entirely irrelevant to making suggestions for changes to basic mechanics. Likewise, I don't care what personal limitations you put on yourself; those are your business and yours alone. You wasted most of your post regurgitating a tired, pointless screed on Camping and Tunneling. Your comments also do not ring true; I'm not going to get into this in depth, but is suffices to say that I don't believe many of the things you say. As those things are irrelevant to your suggestion, I'll let it pass with no further comment.

    Camping and Tunneling do not happen near as often (at any level) as Players seem to think, and there are already a host of things that can be done to mitigate or counter the tactics. Not only is your suggestion open to dangerous abuse, it is totally unneeded in the first place.

    in Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @sesawyer3127 said:

    Every SINGLE time I have played against Meyers he is always using the mori and killing you instantly so I just run him for as long as I can.

    That isn't a Spooky Myers. I'm assuming you are talking about the Tombstone Piece or Judith's Tombstone. :) Both of those require Tier-3, and a Spooky Myers CANNOT leave Tier-1. The only way a Spooky Myers can Mori is with the basic Mori Offerings which means you have been hooked twice or hit Stage-2 by being on the hook too long. Most Spooky do not waste an offering on a Mori because most (not me) put in Map Offerings.

    Well a Spooky COULD use Devour Hope or Rancor to Mori but these are uncommon on them as well. Most Spooky are taking Generator Regression Perks. :)

    in Lots of DCs for scratched mirror Myers Comment by Moundshroud

  • @EvilJoshy said:

    I would tell survivors to adapt. Camping+tunneling have numerous counters. They either

    A: are unaware of said counters

    B: don't feel like doing them

    C: suck at the game

    This guy said it all already, short and to the point.

    in How would you solve camping and tunneling? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @deckyr said:

    i hate playing against scratched mirror myers, it feels like there's nothing i can do. i legit just don't know how to counterplay it.

    but i hate people who DC a whole lot more than anything any killer can do.

    I'm going to help you out, to my own detriment since I play Spooky Myers more than any other Build. :)

    1. Identify quickly that you are facing a Spooky Myers. The Killer putting in an indoor map is suggestive of it, but by no means a reliable way to tell. If you notice the Myers never seems to be standing still and stalking you to juice up, but immediately vanishes around corners and whatnot, you know what you are dealing with. Naturally if it is taking them a LONG time to Tier up and they haven't seemed like bad Players, that is a dead give away. The sooner you know you are dealing with the Spooky variety the sooner you can take the right steps, which are the OPPOSITE of how you deal with every other Myers.
    2. Don't hide; always keep moving if you can. Spooky always knows where you are with 100% accuracy. A good one is always angling to get you and will go the long way around to get that fun jump scare. If you keep moving, they have a hard time doing so because they are slow, and the long way around to intercept is beyond their normal 105% speed.
    3. Heal in the middle of large open areas so you can see him coming. On Midwich the middle of a long corridor is great for this, but on other maps, a big dead zone you would normally avoid like the plague is PERFECT. Remember what I said about opposites? Terrain is often more helpful to a Spooky than it is to you, use it when you need to gain distance not just to break line of sight. He always has line of sight.
    4. Use spotters. If you are working a Generator the natural inclination is for the other guy to get on the Generator with you to go faster. You get more out of having that one guy not working the Generator and spotting the approaches to tip you off that Myers is coming. The ability to keep line of sight is optimal, and he loves coming around corners. A spotter can prevent that.
    5. Break up on Generators to the four winds. Spooky Myers is super slow and simply cannot maintain Generator pressure if you all break up. The more you stay together, the better it is for him.
    6. Stay the hell away from the basement. Stay the hell out of chests. Don't put yourself in a position to give him grabs or to block you in. A good Spooky Myers is always looking to dead end you or let you start on an objective so he can grab you.
    7. Remember he isn't Camping, he is doing a sort of Proxy Camping to try and intercept you at the Hook while he does short range patrols to pick up people in his wall hack sweeps. This means you should NEVER assume he isn't going to step out and grab you while you unhook. A good Spooky is always going to choose hooks with doorways and corners by them and never in halls or open areas if it can be helped. Just assume he is going to appear so you can break off the unhook and hopefully turn his grab into a hit so then you finish the unhook.
    8. Spooky LOVES Corrupt Intervention even more than any other Myers (or Killer really) because it all but guarantees he will find you in the first thirty seconds because all non-corrupted Generators can be put in range of his wall hack most of the time. An indoor Killer using Corrupt is almost always a Spooky Myers.
    9. Bear in mind that a Spooky will proxy camp slugged Survivors and Generators too, more than any other Killer because they can.
    10. Last but not least, Spooky Myers is an ambush Predator. The good ones do NOT chase you unless they have the luxury. Most break off chases within 15 seconds or less. They are about the mind game. You CANNOT mind game them back because they know where you are, but you can quickly learn to use their habits against them. You can CHOOSE where a Spooky will attack because you know how they LIKE to attack. This helps you cut down on the directions they will come from.

    If you keep these ten things in mind, you will not feel out of depth against a Spooky. Last but not least, while MOST Spooky Myers Players will only do it with a map offering, do not assume that Myers on the big outdoor map isn't a Spooky. Watch for those warning signs. I play Spooky, pretending to be a normal Myers all the time, and you would be amazed how effective it is if they keep hiding, and trying to block me from stalking them.

    in Lots of DCs for scratched mirror Myers Comment by Moundshroud

  • @AgentPug said:

    I've been going for some adepts today cause of the rank reset bug and decided for Myers it would be fun to try out scratched mirror.

    Long story short I kept doing really well but only getting ruthless with just a couple emblem points away from merciless because of an early DC.

    The last game I did I had 2 people DC with one of them then waiting the entire game to trash talk me for using scratched mirror on Gideon meat plant.

    Do people not like scratched mirror Myers? I always thought he was a fun jump scare playstyle that people enjoyed playing against and I personally think it's extremely fun to play against since it's actually scary if they're good.

    I'm curious what the general consensus on how fun it is to play against scratched mirror since I never really thought about it that much.

    Most real Players (and by real I mean those out of the Potato Ranks) enjoy going up against Spooky. I rarely have anyone disconnect against me playing the build. Of course, I go against Red Ranks MOST of the time. Spooky Myers is one of the few matches where the old horror feel comes back, and the game isn't unlike when you first started playing. Bad sports are going to be bad sports, and I suspect those same losers who disconnected against your Myers build will also disconnect if they think they were downed too soon, don't like the map, or if it is ANY Killer they don't understand. Don't take it personal. Most of the time, as you progress forward, people won't disconnect against Spooky. You are still playing against Players who simply can't operate without the Terror Radius to warn them, so they get frustrated.

    in Lots of DCs for scratched mirror Myers Comment by Moundshroud

  • @HaunterofShadows said:

    🤔Interesting

    Yeah, it is a valid point. It is easy to say "don't camp" when you are talking about a Killer that can cross the map in literally ten second or less, or has built in Proxy Camp ability. It is often forgotten that we have a fair number of Killers that don't have those options and those are the ones that tend to Camp more, not out of love for the tactic but necessity. Once in a BLUE MOON I might see a Camping Blight, Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, or Legion. The reason is none of them need to Camp. They can upkeep Generator Pressure and still get back to the hook in time to intercept by pure chance.

    Not all Killers are created equal; some tactics are done simply because they must be done.

    in How would you solve camping and tunneling? Comment by Moundshroud

  • @ShamelessPigMain said:

    I've been finding a lot of key users lately, and Franklin's has been my go-to, but I hate that perk and want some alternatives, and figured that shortcuts from their side can be met with shortcuts from this side. So is it still considered "toxic" to tunnel a survivor who brings a key? Especially now that I don't have to worry about DS, it kind of seems like tunneling is the proportionate response to key escapes.

    Anything within the rules is appropriate if you deem it necessary. You don't need permission or qualifiers to Tunnel (or Camp or Slug or whatever). Valid tactics are simply a matter of choice, and Killers should adopt whatever a specific match requires based on the situation. If you want to Tunnel anyone who has a key, have at it. If you want to Tunnel just because you don't like Megs, have at it. The only things you have to do to be a good sport in Dead by Daylight are:

    1. Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spike.
    2. Don't disconnect; if you start a game finish it.
    3. Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

    Everything else is on the table. You do you and stop worrying about what the rest of us think you should do. Besides, you will get a hundred different answers to any question you pose here. Your answer is the only one that matters.

    in Is it appropriate to tunnel survivors who have keys Comment by Moundshroud

  • @LilacandGooseberries said:

    So I've only started playing this game recently when COVID got out of hand. I really love this game and each match is challenging but I noticed that when I hit the green ranks suddenly I'm getting killers that just camp people. It's getting frustrating and I keep losing pips. How the hell are survivors supposed to survive if the killers are all camping? I'm tempted to just DC since I'm losing pips anyways.

    At the Green Ranks and better, Killers tend to Camp only if (and as long) as it bears results. In the newbie Ranks, Killers Camp simply because they don't know any better. What this means, if you keep running into people who stay near the hook, is that the Survivors are responsible. Stop making it worth their while, and they will move off. For example, I always do short patrols on my "first" hook. I'm not really camping per say, but doing an assessment of the Survivors, gathering intelligence. I need to know how altruistic they are because that bears on Generator pressure. If 1+ always comes on the run, I know how much pressure I'm asserting just by having one on the hook. Does that make sense? Likewise, if I see the first group is going to milk that first hook for all the repairs they can, leaving their teammate to potentially go to 2nd Stage (or right on the line) I have to play them very different. The reason I'm doing short patrols rather than full on camp is because the second I know they are milking, I'm off to the races to rebuild pressure. For a Killer, information is power. I have to be able to discern the psychology of those I'm chasing as early as possible, and altruism is one of the key factors.

    More to the point, what most Survivors identify as Camping is nothing of the sort. Survivors incorrectly identify the behavior all the time without taking any responsibility, i.e. acknowledging their own part (usually major) in where the Killer operates. A good portion of the matches I play involve someone coming in for the rescue, me intercepting or just stumbling across them on my way out to run Generator routes. Instead moving away from the hook (leading me) in a straight line, as far as possible, they stay in the SAME area, allowing me to effectively do short patrols, almost requiring me to do it. Remember, at this point I now have TWO Survivors tied up and off Generators with one moving toward death. Chances are, and I'm well aware, another is now heading toward the hook because he/she sees the first would-be rescuer is tied up. That means I end up with THREE people off Generators. The longer that first would-be rescuer keeps running me in the same area, the worse it gets for the Survivors. Do you see my point?

    I'm not Camping because 50%+ of my objectives are now in range. I'm simply playing the only sane strategy. Had the first would-be savior left the area with me in tow, the other person would have made the save, the fourth would have continued on Generators, and thus Otz's basic lesson (one Survivor must always be on a Gen.) is upkept. Now if the first person comes in, initiates a chase but I break off immediately and stay around the hook, yes... at that point I'm Camping. I could have any number of reasons why I'm doing it, but Survivors should take this information to heart and adjust how they are going to handle me. Perhaps I felt the first Survivor had too big a head start. If you break off your rescue run too early the Killer knows they aren't going to reach you. Like it or not, you have to put yourself in harms way if you want to be effective bait. Do you see where I'm going with that?

    Far too many Survivors will take ZERO risks with themselves and wonder why the Killer Camps or Tunnels. If you don't make that chase viable, i.e. give the Killer of even having a chance of catching you, he/she isn't going to follow (at the good Ranks anyway). If you don't take that protection hit and vanish like a Ninja leaving the hurt Survivor as the only viable target, the Killer is naturally going to hit the same person again. If you see the Killer slug someone and 1-2 of you stay in plain sight running around, clearly hoping to get and heal the downed person, of COURSE the Killer is going to attempt to slug ALL of you. Why wouldn't he/she adopt the best option if you are making it easy for them? What most Survivors don't understand is that while Killers are brute force and will win most 1v1 exchanges (over time at least) the Survivors are the true POWER ROLE in that they make most of the choices which impact how a match flows. Predators react to the actions of prey to run them down or ambush them.

    in Camping Comment by Moundshroud

  • @HaunterofShadows said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185921#Comment_2185921

    @Moundshroud lets all just take a step back and calm down.

    Understood and done. I need a Jimmy the Cricket now and then; I appreciate it.

    in How would you solve camping and tunneling? Comment by Moundshroud
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