Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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It certainly sounds like you are unhappy, and no one wants you to suffer. Please allow me to offer my sincere sympathy and point you to the door. There is no reason to play a game that you don't enjoy when there are thousands at our fingertips. Seek your bliss. And since this is Dead by Daylight, please allow me to play you off over the horizon with an appropriate thematic soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQGXP_5wN5E -
@redsopine00 said:
I mean somone rage quit because I was chasing a cludette around the shack and another died in the basement as well because the cludette decided to loop and not lead me away from it
I see it all the time playing Spooky Myers, and then I'm called a Camper in the end chat because I chased in them in circles around the basement area.
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As a Killer there never is a reason not to use it since you can never share the benefits with a SWF, nor do they matter in custom games. If you play with a group of regular friends, we like to save them up so we can put four in at once and supercharge the points for a round. I mean if you do have a group you play with now and then, why not save them up and share them with your buddies?
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@Yords said:
For the amount of grind there is in this game, we really aren't given much for finally achieving things. (For example) Like ok nice, I have killed 1000 survivors in my total time of playing this game , but I get nothing. Why are we not rewarded with a cool cosmetic that is exclusive to players who have played this game for an extended amount of time? There is no fancy cosmetic you get for doing something significant, and there is no reward for doing anything in this game.
I want cosmetics that I can show off to other people that shows my level of superiority. I want a baby dweet to look at me and think "Wow, this person
is be a godmust have no life!" or "Holy hell this killer must be good and means business" JUST by taking a look at my character.The cosmetics we have now are pretty good, but you wanna know why I don't care for them? Because some are pretty pricey honestly, but mainly because anyone can get them.
Any person who plays this game and wants cosmetics can just go ahead and buy them. But that isn't very rewarding, it doesn't let you know who has put in the hours to "git gud", it just shows you who likes the game enough to spend extra money on it.
What if when you get 10 flashlight saves you get a new skin for flashlights that you can toggle on and off? What if you could get a cool skin that shows you love using medkits? Just little things like that including full on cosmetics for your characters would go a long way and make it feel more like everyone is grinding towards something.
Everyone with 1000's of hours on this game only have their playtime to show as their sort of glory I guess. We should at the least be rewarded with exclusive cosmetics that can be grinded for at any time. That would make people feel more inclined to play the game more as well.
I'd just be happy with a Leader board, tracking like the the top 100 or something, showcasing them for a bunch of different interesting metrics. I'm shallow and would find that more than enough.
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Don't be ridiculous. Seriously, you and Sluzzy are like broken records. The DEV don't play favorites. Whatever changes they make are intended to keep the game healthy and running. For us this is a diversion, a luxury item. For them, this is their mortgage payment, the College fund, and putting food on the table. They have a far greater vested interest in things working well than you are I.
More to the point, they need at least one Killer for every four Survivors. There are no Bots. They can't afford, nor want to lose any Killers because the margin for error as far as the Queues are concerned are massive. There was a time when this game was heavily weighted towards the Survivors. There were endless loops and many other nightmare situations that the 2016 Veterans can tell you about (and have posted about in the past). You can watch videos of how the game used to be. Slowly but surely they have been making careful adjustments to get as rough a balance as can be managed in this kind of game. It will always be a work in progress.
Your constant chatter that the Killers are getting screwed is tiresome and simply not true. It is silly when Sluzzy does the same thing with his threnody about the sad state of Survivors. I have seen you post some useful things, constructive things. I just think that your "crying wolf" all the time about favoritism and unfairness is going to make people TUNE YOU OUT and thus they will miss it when you actually post something valid. My suggestion is to move away from your "meme" posts and just stick with the nuts and bolts of the specific topic you want to talk about.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195579#Comment_2195579
It’s a perk that I feel naked without honestly
Ditto. :) My standard Survivor build is:
Spine Chill, Calm Spirit, Iron Will... and one Wildcard, i.e. whatever Perk I think I need for a given Rift or situation.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
Whilst Spine Chill is highly regarded, I rarely see anyone consider it the ‘best’ perk. Until recently, I’d say DS was the strongest perk, and then unbreakable was second for how powerful that combo was. However, with the DS nerf, I think it has knocked both of these perks down slightly. This leaves me with the question, which perk is now in the number one spot? I would not fault anyone for saying dead hard or sprint burst, but I’d say Spine Chill comes out on top for me. So, why could it be the king of all perks?
First of all, it is a massive counter to Wraith, Myers, Pig, and Ghost Face. They are never going to surprise you, unless they try to fool Spine Chill, but I have personally never seen anyone other than Otzdarva do this. Even if they did this, they do eventually have to look at you. A lot of the time, this makes them little more than a M1 killer that will really struggle to down you without wasting so much time. It also helps you know if Demo is coming towards you after teleporting, and weakens Freddy’s oblivious status, as you know when he is coming for you. There are other killers who have add ons revolving around stealth that again are almost worthless against users of Spine Chill.
You can use the perk to know when a killer has lost you in chase, and this gives a powerful combo with Iron Will, to let you know when they have lost line of sight. In a meta where spirit dominates, Spine Chill is a really great perk to use, as you can wait till the perk stops lighting up, and then hide to lose chase. I don’t believe using this perk just to be immersed is using it very well, but there are times you absolutely cannot be caught, whether it’s because the killer has five tokens of devour, or if you’re on death hook. The perk lighting on and off also makes escaping through the exit gate a lot safer, since you can power it up to the point where no light will be shown, and then fully open it once Spine Chill goes on and off, indicating the killer is checking the other gate.
It also has a nice extra effect of giving you a 6% boost to all actions when the killer is looking at you, which is great for getting the gate open just in time, but is best for the extra vault speed. It’s essentially like getting a mini resilience as part of the perk, although combining both is another excellent combo for this perk. The extra speed has definitely helped me finish gens, escape hits and comes in clutch when you need it. It’s a lifesaver letting you know when a killer is coming back to a hook, or if it’s safe to heal.
Lastly, it counters some of the most popular killer perks. Tinkerer while still helpful for the killer, will prevent you from being grabbed off the gen if there are walls blocking your line of sight. It also makes monitor and abuse essentially a worthless perk against you, as you will know they are coming from 32m regardless of their terror radius. It can also tell you when a killer is reading your aura, with a perk like a nurse’s calling.
There are many other uses for this perk, which makes it extremely versatile. This perk is incredibly consistent, and I’d be amazed if you couldn’t get value out of it basically every game. I’d love to hear what everyone else thinks about where this perks ranks in relation to the rest of the survivor perks.
Side note, it’s amazing for anyone who gets anxiety from playing.
I don't know if it is the BEST Perk but it is an auto-include for me. I use it to counter Spirit primarily, but it is like Sloppy Butcher in that you always get a solid return on it in your list. There is never a match where you don't get valuable information and a head start out of it. Compared to many Perks that may or may not even come into play, it is golden.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191617#Comment_2191617
that doesn't work on good DH players
Sure it does. I play against Red Rank Survivors all the time and DH is a common loadout. The reason baiting out the DH works is because it isn't really bait; they have no choice at a certain point but do it. Just keep closing the distance until point blank if you like; if they don't use it by that point, they aren't going to use it. :)
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@piggygooik said:
I mean she can be good but the thing that holds her back is that her crouch is kinda weak and her beartraps are really RNG based and RNG sucks for both sides. I think they can make the RNG of the traps less like the trapper change low chance on the 1, moderate chance on the 2 second but high in the 3, and 4
this will also make her way more fun to play and not get screwed over by RNGesus.
her couch should also be 100%
Pig isn't weak at all, but she is a finesse Killer. Her power (the Reverse Bear Traps) has quirks and it is often used in inefficient ways. Let's take a look her:
- She is a average height 115% Speed Killer. This means it is harder to see her coming or outrun.
- She has the option to go Stealth at will, turning her Terror Radius and Red Stain off, still moving.
- She has a weird super lunge, where she come out of stealth mode moving really fast.
- She has (4) Reverse Bear Traps and starts with all of them. If used early game, they are less efficient because even with a few people running around with traps on their head, the others can work Generators. Trying to cover Generators and Jigsaw Stations is harder on her than it is on the Survivors. However, if she holds on to the traps for mid to late game, when there are fewer Survivors (she has killed 1+) and fewer Generators to cover, they have a far more weighty effect. The fewer remaining Survivors don't want to do the last Generators without getting the traps off to avoid activating them. Moreover, running around to Stations means not working Generators, and there are fewer points the Pig has to defend. If Pig has identified and crafted a 3-Gen (which is easier for her than anyone else) she is almost unbeatable. More to the point, the traps should not be wasted on the weaker Survivors but applied to those who are tougher to keep them out of circulation longer.
So Pig is a flexible M1 Killer is weak in the loops but can compensate with ambush and attrition. I'm not going into Perks because all of those can be unlocked for any Killer. What would be more correct to say about Pig is she would feel weaker in the hands of a Killer who likes to endlessly chase because of her weakness in the anti-looping tech. In short, your personal play style is what determines how effective she will be.
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I'm calm and done with it. I tried to help him; it didn't work. I'm moving on. :)
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193839#Comment_2193839
So just so we're clear you proposed 3 things, 1 never get caught ever 2 if you get got hop off the hook and escape and 3 get your teammates to save you while your being camped.
The issue with number 3 is as you and many others have said is that the best strategy for a camping killer is to stick to gens. So I'm not sure why your surprised that when someone is being camped the other survivors leave them to die just like you recommended.
The issue with number 2 is that when I get off the hook I'm hit before I have the option to move as in I'm pressing the input to move but before my character has the chance to I've been knocked back down. If I'm doing something wrong Here and there is some way to trigger a move sooner then tell it to me becuase all that I experience is get off hook get knocked right back down.
The issue I have with number one is that I find myself unable to infinitely loop a killer thay is remotely close to my skill level, now i don't know of any survivor who claims to be able escape every game becuase they can outrun the killer forever. Are you saying you are capable of this?
The problem with your advise is that it didn't work, when I pointed out the issues with it instead of saying that I didn't follow your instructions properly (which I may not have hence why I asked) you just said well you didn't take my advice, even though I told you I did take you advice, and found it didn't work.
So kindly tell me where I went wrong in number 2, so I can try it again if it actually works for you it's shouldn't be that hard to explain where I went wrong
Your entire mindset just isn't right for this game. I hate to tell you but just as some dogs are untrainable, some people are wrong for certain games. I don't know what game is right for you, but DbD ain't it. :)
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Ok, final match, the third one. I'm actually kind of glad this was the last one because I think it confirms something for me and I can really focus in on what I think will help you. A lot of what I'm going to say is going to be repetition but more clarified. Again, take these comments with a grain of salt and understand I think you are a good Killer. You just have some areas that could use some work.
- You won. However, that win was more a result of their bad play. Still a win is a win.
- You were up again Solos and on a comparatively SMALL map with lots of open sight lines.
- I think you should review the video yourself and number the Generators as you visit them Then graph which ones get visited. I think you will find this VERY telling. You actually remained almost entirely within 1/3 of the map for most of the match. You visited a very small number of Generators, so it isn't surprising that they got all but one up in short order. As I commented in the critique of the last match, you don't have systematic Generator pressure. You are entirely random, and this causes you to NOT visit or even come close enough to listen to many Generators. You return to the same ones multiple times. Even on this small map, this almost cost you the game. If you are going to do this, you need to at least be rotating through a 3-Gen that you have identified early on. That isn't the case in this match. I think it really was kind of random which 1/3 of the map you kept rotating around in because it wasn't a 3-Gen. Your late game success only took place because of the collapse of the Survivor's commonsense AND a good late game use of a Reverse Bear Trap.
- This is a positive thing. Did you notice how much MORE value you got out of the Reverse Bear Trap on the Dwight? You did that one late game and it kept him off Generators and useless until the end of the match. Otherwise they would have gotten that last Generator. Consider how much more effective it would have been to use them all later. Because it was a small map, any traps you threw on early were going to be off quick, particularly since you weren't routing Jigsaw Stations anymore than you were Generators. I honestly think your game was saved by that one late Trap which tied up the Dwight, and really want to emphasize that later game traps are better for you.
- You made some odd choices dealing with the Generators you did cover. For example, early on when a Generator was almost done you ran a BUNCH of them off of it and then proceeded to run one down. You should have hooked her immediately, but because you stopped to do the trap, it allowed them MORE time to slam those Generators that were close. At a later time again, you came close to a Generator right on the edge but just followed someone away when you knew more than one had to be there. That got them that Generator. The reason I'm harping on this is the generators I'm talking about are in that SMALL area you chose to actually hang out in most of the game. At the very least, if you limit yourself to a small section of the map, no Generator in that section should be coming up.
- In regards to the basement, you had a chance early on to to put a down into the basement but you hooked outside for some reason. You were right next to the shack. I can only assume that you didn't realize the basement was down there. The next time you downed someone near the shack you did use it. The angle of the down showed you the hooks when you picked that person up. This tells me that the first opportunity you had was missed simply because you didn't see the hooks due to the angle you picked the person up. A basic Killer skill is to always KNOW where your basement is located from the very start of the match. You should NOT need seeing those four hooks to remind you. It is your strong point, and pretty much should be what you gun for if at all possible.
- Your movement is still way too jerky. You need to slow down or adjust your sensitivity or something. The way you yank your viewpoint around as you move causes you to miss things. When it comes to turning, as opposed to moving around, slower and smoother is better. You need to be able to see those crows go into the air, catch a glimpse of that movement in the distance and so on. You were helped by all the open LOS in this map, but you still missed things because of how you look around. I cannot emphasize this enough. Go watch videos of Otz, Monto, Stalky Boi, etc. and compare how they turn and look around to how you do it. Sometimes people are jerky but the majority of time they are looking around rather smoothly.
- Again track the time you spent in crouch versus upright and chasing people. Your most effective chases, you were standing up and just took them down fast. When you were going into a crouch and slinking around you had to work three times as hard and they always knew you were coming anyway. :)
I don't need to go to ten this time. I saw improvement in how often you stayed upright and just ran people down. That was great. You are FINE when you aren't crouching or trying so hard to super lunge. You loop pretty well when you stick to looping. Just focus on staying upright and resist going in and out of crouch. Do it when you have a clear reason and plan. Also remember that SOMETIMES a Terror Radius is your friend and helps you flush people off a Generator. Do more of the traps late game, as this match shows how much more effect you got out of the later one than the earlier one. And you need to be systematic in your Generator routes. Please do number those Gens and review the match again. You are going to find you barely went near any of the Generators. Anyway, I hope you didn't find me too direct or harsh. You are NOT a trash Killer. You just have some inefficient habits.
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Ok, here is my critique for your second match. Obviously you know that things went south. It was four escapes, an overwhelming Survivor win. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea of what I'm going to say based on my last commentary, but I promised to give this my all. Again, you asked for the critique, so try not to let ego rise up in your throat as I point out a few things. You were up against some disadvantages that you did NOT have the first game.
- As already mentioned, Survivor w/four escapes. Kudos for fighting it to the bitter end.
- You were facing a SWF. There is no doubt about it. The coordination they had for picking up slugged comrades and planning hook rescues doesn't just happen. One would lead you off and the other would pop out. Toward the end of the match when you had the Dwight hooked by the exit, one went across the map to make noise. And they instantly fanned out to find your NOED in coordinated search patterns. A SWF is always going to be a bit harder to fight, and a well-coordinated SWF on a large map is tough for anyone. You had another problem; see next point.
- The new Cold Wind Farms maps are chock full of terrain (and corn) which limit line of sight. This hit you 10x as hard because you spent so much time going in and out of crouch. You couldn't see at all. You were relying almost entirely on Whispers or just hoping to run into one. The Survivors, by comparison to you, had a pretty good view, and I expect even when you were in crouch their angle of sight created a situation where they were more likely to spot you first. You spent too much time crouching. On to my next point...
- On a big map like that, particularly with poor LOS, don't go into stealth mode at the start. It just increases the amount of time it is going to take you to find a Survivor. If you prefer to play that way you need Corrupt Intervention in the worst possible way. That would have cut down on how many Generators they could work for the first two minutes and given you the time to play sneaky pig. Even so, I still don't think it is the best option. Let's be honest, they are going to spot those Jigsaw Stations really fast. They know it is Pig they are facing almost immediately. You aren't going to catch anyone by surprise that it is a stealth Killer. I think you need to find them fast, establish some pressure and get that first down. Then use the Stealth more and more as you get some Reverse Bear Traps on them. You didn't have this problem in the Old West match because there are lots of clear lines of sight. Your tendency to whip your viewpoint around and go in and out of crouch cost you some downs but it didn't kill you. On Cold Win you were fighting blind.
- Whispers did nothing for you. By the time you heard anything with Whispers you could clearly hear the Generator. Again, I think that Perk is useful for hunting immersed people but slows you down if you are relying on it to home in on people that you can find by normal means. And as I said in the previous critique, early game there are lots of Survivors. If they are near each other moving around (as this SWF was doing from time to time) it makes the Perk useless as you hear whispers coming from every direction. There wasn't one time in that game where you found someone that the Generator hadn't already given them away.
- But let's talk Generators. Three times you came up sneaky on a Generator that was clearly being worked. You came around and the Survivor was gone. Sometimes you would kick it and sometimes not but then you left. Your Whispers had told you the Survivor was there. The Generator clearly indicated they were there. Why did you leave? :) In one of them (if you watch the video again carefully) you can actually see the Survivor slipping around the terrain. You just didn't spot her. If you watch again you will see it. If you knew she was there, and that Generator was close (it was) you should assume she didn't go far. She wanted that Generator done. Why go run back into the corn blind to start searching again when one of the pesky Survivors is within 9 meters of you at most? I don't want to come on too strong here. I know you were getting a bit discombobulated by that point. Your search patterns showed it and had become entirely random. It happens to all of us when we know we are getting waffle-stomped. If that happens again, just take a breath and play the game calmly and see what you can practice. The more agitated you get, the more desperate, the more things you miss. I'm going to stick with Generators here for a bit longer. I didn't go into this last critique because it didn't matter. I wasn't sure it was a problem (only suspected it) until this match. You are not systematic in your Generator routes. Lots of Generators were never passed; you didn't even go close enough for a listen. On a big map you just can't afford to be choosing which ones to check randomly. You end up checking the same ones multiple times while they bang away at those unguarded ones. Besides, the best way to find Survivors is at Generators. You sure as heck weren't going to find them at random on that map.
- Let's talk Dwight. I'm not going in chronological order here, btw. When you got that Dwight down, you clearly decided that your only chance to get anyone at the end of the match was to camp. You were correct. Things were that bad. What I didn't understand is why you hooked him BY a gate, and then opened it. It all but assured that if someone did come to get him and somehow got past you they both would get out (even with NOED). More to the point, a DS would have been awful there. I didn't think it was a problem hanging him near the gate. I just think you should have hidden and left the gate shut. They were VERY GOOD Survivors and when someone came up they would have gone to open the gate first, thinking they should 99 it before alerting you to their presence. Their mindset would have been, 99 it... then unhook Dwight and by the time the Pig gets back we will both be out. You could have gotten that one while she played for the gate and then intercepted the third coming in for the unhook. The fourth was off looking for your Totem. I just don't see why you would open it. Because if you did go to hook one you dropped coming in for the save, you would have to go so far away for the next hook that the rescue of the Dwight would be a given and those two could still get out the door. You might have had some reasoning I'm missing. Perhaps you thought starting the EGC would make them reckless to get their friend, or keep them from looking for your NOED? Or perhaps you thought with NOED in play the rest would be more likely to leave? I'm sure you had a reason, I just don't think it was the best play.
- You didn't get as many hooks this time, and so many damn generators were up before you were really getting them that your Reverse Bear Traps didn't pay you dividends. This time, I can't really get a read on what you would have done because you didn't get a chance to really use them properly.
- In regards to camping, if you are going to do it, do it right. :) I can tell you don't make a habit of camping or using the honeypot strategy. How do I know this? You hid in a spot where anyone coming from three primary direction would have been able to see you. You just got lucky she came from the one direction you weren't visible to. Getting lucky is not a good plan. Also, you left the area for some reason after starting to camp. I wasn't sure what you were thinking or why, but it gave them the new rescues. You had no reason at that point to leave. You could have forced the draw. For whatever reason you abandoned the camping, did a short patrol and then came back too late to prevent them making a run for it. It is almost as if you wanted to go find whomever killed your NOED. Once your NOED was done you absolutely should NOT have left. In for a penny is in for a pound.
- Finally, you must be one of those people who tries to avoid Tunneling. At the end there, you had a choice between targets. You could have hit the Dwight who just got unhooked and you already knew had no DS or the person unhooking him; you went after the other one instead of Dwight (the uninjured one). This was a terrible bet because with no NOED and the gate (which you opened) nearby, a hit on her all but assured she would get out. It was better odds to hit the Dwight again... TUNNEL his butt... because one shot would put him down short of Borrowed Time. He was a better choice but some weird moray has been grilled into you and you chose not to Tunnel. That is why ALL of them got out. :)
I know I sounded much worse on you this time. I'm sure you expected it. On a good note you still weren't afraid of the Pallet. You still remained cool under pressure until the end of the match when it was getting pretty obvious everything that could go wrong had gone wrong. And you had the good sense to ask us what we think. We all have bad games; this was one of yours. I think you were facing some tough opposition on an unfriendly map (at least for your playstyle with Pig) and your crouch habits hurt you. The caving in at the end of the match could happen to anyone. I've had it happen to me. I only commented on some of them so you can work them. My chief take away is don't use your Stealth so much that you are too slow, particularly on a big map. Consider Corrupt Intervention as a replacement to Whispers and hunt by Generator and Survivor sounds and keeping an eye out for crows and movement. And never open the damn gate right behind the last person you just hooked. :)
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193718#Comment_2193718
1. And 5. No I can't infinitely run from a killer they are faster than me and get faster as they go, although I can run for a couple gens eventually they catch up twice. Are you saying thay you are capable of never being caught by a killer? If so you must escape every single game right?
2. And 3. No one is coming to save remember, when being camped just do gens is all I keeps seeing on here for dealing with camping, so I can't say I'm surprised by the the other survivors doing this.
4. Took ds so that if I did manage to pop off the hook and got instadowned I could try and ds away. Didn't work.
6 would be good if 1. I wasn't the first on the hook since you knkw thr first one gets camped and 2. Again survivors do gens when someone's being camped so there is no on coming
As I've said to you many times before, you don't take advice. You have already decided you are right and it is hopeless. Anyone who suggests things to you has you argue with them. My advice, and offer for you to play with us is solid and genuine. You just like complaining about the game more than playing it. Pulsar has tried to help you. I've tried to help you. I've noticed other people suggesting things too. In every case, you have decided to argue with people that have thousands of hours on you. You can't tell me that on some level you don't realize that we ALL aren't crazy or lying to you? :)
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This video is an hour long, so I'm going to review match by match since I tend to watch a match 2-3 times to make sure I didn't miss anything. So you will get a post from me for each, and probably be only one tonight. First, you aren't a "trash" Killer by any means. You have good basic skills. That being said you do a few things which aren't efficient and shoot yourself in the foot. The Survivors are just benefitting from your habits. Bear in mind that you asked for this critique so I'm going to be very direct and honest.
- You killed three in the first match so that is a win for the Killer. Kudos.
- You could have ended that match 5-8 minutes earlier but were hobbled by some odd choices.
- You jerk your view around rather violently rather than smoothly and go in and out of a crouch so often (and many times when not needed) that it causes you to lose the sight line and the Survivors. This means you have to find them all over again.
- You don't pay that much attention to the sounds of Generators and passed several being worked on when you weren't even in a chase. You should have dropped into stealth mode and gone in, if for no other reason than to drive them off. I saw this happen like four times that I'm certain of. Now you might have heard it and just decided it wasn't important or that you couldn't defend it, but I think you were too busy listening to Whispers and missed it.
- Let's talk about Whispers. Dump it. You spend a lot of time using Whispers to go "hot... cold... warm... hot" to hunt down the Survivors. Combine that with your rapidly shifting sight lines and you miss a lot of easy hits (and thus early downs). Whispers is great when you have immersed people hiding late game but early game it is a pain in the ass. With so many Survivors moving around it makes it very inaccurate. You were really leaning into it too and I think it extended your game. I'm not saying it is a terrible Perk but it clearly wasn't helping you that much. The noise of the Generators was deafening in most cases and you could have easily found them that way. It is not a good Perk to use in a chase.
- Let's talk about the Reverse Bear Traps. You wasted TWO on the Jake. Why? He was their weakest link. When you put the second on him, he would have been dead on hook. You could have used that trap on one of the more effective players and had him out of the game. If you can take someone out of the game, get rid of them. While he was their weakest link, the extra lease on life you gave him got another Generator up. One less guy squatting around would have been less confusion for your Whispers too. Me personally, I like to use my traps mid to late game when I want them desperate and in a pickle. When there are fewer of them, having traps on them slows them to a crawl and makes them not want to turn on those last Generators until the traps are removed. Early game traps are likely to waste the time of ONE person which you could have gotten just chasing and hooking. Using them too early robs you of that late game "up yours" to the Survivors. At the very least, don't waste traps on people you already can take out of the game, or know you can catch with ease. Put those traps on the pains in the rear to keep them busy and out of circulation a bit.
- You really like the Pig's lunge; I admit it is fun to do and like the sound of the lion myself. However, there are many times when a simple chase would have been a guaranteed down and using the special lunge actually extended your chase. Don't work harder than you have to.
- There isn't much reason to go into stealth mode in a chase. They already know you are there. They aren't going to stop running away just because your heartbeat suddenly stops. They just know you went crouch and are M1'ing their butts to the other side of the map knowing you just got slowed down. I'm sure once in awhile going stealth confuses people and you get a hit, but trust me I think you would do better not using it inside a chase. Besides, as I said earlier it obscures your view and at least three times you lost the Survivors because of it.
- When you went after the Jake upstairs you were in crouch and came around and did the super lunge and hit him, but I am 100% certain you could have crouched right up to him come up and grabbed him. That chase would have ended immediately and you could have used him for bait. One of the benefits of Stealth mode is the grab. And why we are on the subject of stealth, why all the in and out of it when you were hiding near the basement and the rescue was going on. All that did was make it harder on you to hit. Why stealth at all when you KNOW both are in the basement. Stand at the top of the stairs and just wait. They can't get by you without at least one of them getting hit. You would have zero chance of missing. You gave yourself a chance and got lucky to hit. More to the point when you stand menacingly at the stop of the stairs it looks cool and SOMETIMES (quite often in fact) one will run through you and get hit and the other turns around and goes back into the basement hoping you will chase the first one out. Then you hit both and it is usually the wounded one that goes back down. I know it sounds silly but Survivors do it ALL THE TIME.
- Speaking of grabs, at the end there when it was down to the two girls, why did you hit her when she went from the unhook rather than just grab her? You were in total control of that chase and she wasn't faking the unhook. Just a regular tap attack should have picked her up ended it with a 4K.
That's it for the things I think you could improve. Listening to me rattle on ten bullet points must make you feel like I think you were terrible. I think you were good; you won. I just think you could have won a lot faster. You cut corners well. You have good instincts for when Survivors are doubling back (the problem that is the exception not the rule). You don't seem to get tilted, but then again I could not hear your commentary. :) I'm just guessing about that part. You never seemed to lose your cool or be desperate. And you didn't seem to be adverse to taking a pallet. I consider that a good thing. Far too many Killers treat getting hit by a pallet as the worst thing in the world. You know how to go through it get that hit even if you get a stun. All of these are great. I just prefer to end a critique on what I liked rather than what I didn't.
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@RiskyKara said:
Sorry, I saw another thread earlier today where someone asked to get their clips reviewed and got some pretty good feedback. I wanted to ask if anyone had time that may be able to help me. I recorded three of my games with the intention of having my commentary as I played to help get inside what I was thinking, but my mic disconnected three minutes in and I didn't notice until it was done recording.
The best example of me falling apart at the seams is at the 2nd match, about 29 minutes to 40 or so.
I appreciate any advice you can give. Thank you!
Side note. I wanted to get monitor and abuse but have had no luck getting it in the blood web. I don't regularly use Noed but I just wanted to scratch out a few easy hooks in my games to get BBQ stacks and BP to hurry this grind up.
I'll watch this and get back to post directly. I want to review it to the same degree I do my own recordings and that sometimes takes a few viewings.
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@Power_Guy said:
I have to disagree. Killers already have only 6.66 minutes (or less) to find and hook Survivors 12 times (if they do not 'camp', 'tunnel' or other Survivor-biased buzzwords).
Adding yet another mechanic to waste a Killer's time won't be well received. Plus, if a Survivor sees him light a totem; they now know where it is.
And if they are in a SWF; now everyone knows where it is.
Perhaps but more choice can cut both ways. If you choose where to light the Totem you can defend it or make sure it is the most hidden Totem. You could wait to light it in an area they have already brought the Generator up so are less likely to even pass it. More to the point, an option to bring a Totem back up (with appropriate effort) would add new facets to the game.
While I don't disagree with you that a certain level of play things move REALLY fast, that is a separate issue and will get dealt with in due course. Right now I'm talking about ways to expand the game and make Totems a bit more involved for everyone playing. They are largely too passive and rely on luck currently. I think more objectives, and more complex ones would add something to the game.
But again, I think the speed issue you are talking about is distinct from this issue and affects everything else through the entire game. :)
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193321#Comment_2193321
OK then walk me through it if I'm doing something wrong. I press to attempt to escape the animation triggers I hit the ground and ....get hit before I can enter anything to make my survivor move...tell me if I have done anything wrong up to this point for your tactic
Lots of things have gone wrong there, although you leave out a lot of specifics. I can guess a few things:
- You need better Looping skills because you got caught and on the hook in the first place. Looping is a BASIC skill. Even so, everyone gets caught eventually, so we won't harp on this too long.
- You or the person rescuing you didn't do a safe rescue. They clearly tried to unhook you while the Killer was present. You can't stop that but that isn't the Killer's fault, but rather the Survivor who did the unsafe rescue. Are they unhooking with YOU between them and the Killer? What did you do wrong? I suppose get a SWF where you have people you can trust. The reason I think this is a BS argument is because I play Solo and I get rescued from Face Campers all the time. I have to wonder how it is possible that I'm so lucky and you are so unlucky. Did you make some God angry? :) I mean you make it sound like you defy all logical probability.
- Borrowed Time would make it irrelevant if you were hit right off the hook. Why aren't your teammates taking it? Again, I guess you better get a SWF if your luck is so astronomically bad.
- Why aren't you taking DS? If you get tunneled and grabbed again right after every hook it sounds like you are the PERFECT candidate for taking DS. You would get the stun and still be able to run away. Heck, load up on the Red Needle to so you can run pause for half a second and inject and then run so more. I mean, I can only give you these extreme solutions because you seem to have extreme bad luck. But DS would function and you have TOTAL control on whether you take it or not.
- Lucky Break is nice since you seem to not be able to loop that well. The first time you get wounded your red marks are gone for a bit. You could use your burst of speed to try to lose the Killer. Let someone else get hooked.
- Consider Deliverance so you can make your jump when the Killer swings at someone trying to rescue you. Even if they are camping you there is going to be a moment you can run. Some chance is better than no chance.
- Consider those Perks that let you try to get off the Hook. Yadda... Yadda... Yadda.
I could go on and on but the best thing I can tell you is PRACTICE your basics so you aren't caught right away. Get a team since you can't seem to function as a Solo. I play Solo and do fine, but clearly you need somebody to cover you back. Hell, I can't stand you but I'll do it. You and I can SWF together. I'll talk to some other people too and you can SWF with us until you get to where you can stand on your own. It might help me tailor your advice a bit if I can see you in action. Basics. This game rises and falls on basics. Until you have them, get by with a little help from your friends (or frenemies in my case).
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Hrm. Honestly I'd have to say this one (although there are a lot of of other contenders):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhYuidbd1qo&list=PLfFi0Ay-vNV0xOYxfEVdhq5MTChgudQXjYou didn't give an age grouping.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192533#Comment_2192533
Have the devs actually said they want killers to return to the hook? Please link me a clip of them saying that.
The only statement I've heard the devs make is that they don't want to prohibit camping/tunneling. And they gave a good reason that I agree with. Forbidding camping/tunneling would make the game more boring. Part of the reason people keep playing DbD is because of the unpredictability factor.
In my view, the best way to handle camping/tunneling is by giving survivors more counters for it. Right now, BT and DS are the only direct counters. I'd like to see the devs make some changes to make it easier for solo queue survivors to handle snowballing.
Why else would they ring a dinner bell and have a bright glowing sign appear that says "SURVIVORS HERE!" You are too smart a guy, I can tell from your posts, to not recognize what the game is doing there. If the DEV didn't want Killers to return to the hook, they wouldn't have gone out of their way to announce the save. They would have left it just the Icon, perhaps even with a delay. No, they ANNOUNCE It give an audible and visual cue just in case the Killer has gotten turned around so they know EXACTLY where at least two Survivors are located. You and I both know that isn't an accident. It is because rescues are all POSITIVE benefits for Survivors, points, more people to work Generators, etc. The game is making sure that doesn't come without risk. Otherwise, why SHOULD you get any points for unhooking someone if there wasn't going to be risk involved? :)
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193266#Comment_2193266
The problem seems to be you think you suggestion was so revolutionary that ni one thought of it before. I'm telling you what happens when you try it becuase I have tried it and yhats what happens.
Your suggestion doesn't work, it's not a bad suggestion like I said tried it myself becusse it thought it would work too. It doesn't though
And I (and others) keep telling you that BASICS matter. If you can't make the advice from me (or others) work it isn't because we are giving you bad advice. The tactics and methods you have been given by a lot of very good Players (some far better than me) are golden. The problem is your expectations. It takes thousands of hours to truly become good at this game. Nothing will replace time in grade.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193197#Comment_2193197
So firsr js the issue if getting deliverance to work I front of a camper becuase the first one being camped is not going to charge deliverance as your team is doing gens waiting for you to die.
But even if you just take your chance and manage to get off the hook while facing a camper, you get of the hook just to be downed right then and there. There is a brief animation where you are ubhooking and landing that you are effectively stuck in place and bam your downed again. Then there's waiting on the ground till ds expires and back you go. You can crawl in circles and watch your teammates do gens from a different view but your still just waiting.
There are two types of people, and I'm guessing you are a "the glass is half empty" type. Whenever anyone gives you suggestions or advice, you immediately start to argue and say "that won't work." Whereas sometimes I give (or see others) give advice and see the person say, "thanks, I'll give that a try." They are clearly going to try it before they knock it. We can offer you help until we are blue in the face; if you have decided nothing can be done, you are RIGHT and have made your problem a self-fulfilling prophecy. And again, you have ONLY yourself to blame.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193033#Comment_2193033
Well you tell me the most effective thing I can do when I'm being camped I'm happy to do it as long as it isn't just die and move on.
Honestly? Just remain calm, watch the game and stretch the hooks as long as possible That gives your team the most time to do things, which includes perhaps making a rescue. You can take Deliverance too, if you are the kind of person who usually makes a rescue early and thus guarantee you can jump off the hook the second that camper turns his/her back even for a second. You can likewise stack up Perks and Add-on(s) and Offerings which increase your odds of getting yourself off the hook. Slippery Meat, some Ace Perks... Jars of Salty Lips... that kind of thing.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192585#Comment_2192585
I appreciate the response. By the way the question was in reference to you saying Camping is a fun challenge for survivors... I asked if that is the mindset concept, where is the challenge for killers? Unless you don't think killers need a challenge.
Here is the thing too. I don't think anyone is really asking for Camping and Tunneling to be removed. It is an acceptable tactic but in order to become a tactic the opportunity has to be there. I think people just want other/more options.
For me, someone who just got mad because their Ruin got popped and they decide they want to face-camp a survivor isn't a tactic on it's own. It is a situation that the killer is trying to force by refusing to fulfill their objective via an action which has no downsides from a counter perspective (for that hooked survivor).
I also get that survivors could simply "Work on generators" as a way to counter this, but in reality that is not what players want. They don't want to be forced to hold M1 in order to "win".... so this is where I will respond to your winning/losing and still having fun comment. I can honestly say that in the 5.4k hours I have in this game, I have never once had fun in a match where I just held M1 and opened an exit gate. Ever. In fact, I would rather die 1000 matches than have to hold M1 in a game where it's core concept is based around chasing and mind-gaming and generally interacting with the opposing side.
I don't really understand the comparison between a PVE game and a PVP game. You can have a fun mindset, but (again) if standing still infront of a survivor's face at a hook is fun for you then more power to you. Ironically THAT to me feels more like you are playing with against a bot, than an actual player. I want to play the game not set up a tent next to a survivor because that is not what is going to make me a better killer.
Bottom line is Camping and Tunneling to an extent are unacceptable from a balance perspective. So at the very least developers could do is simply apply built-in options for survivors outside of perks, because many till this day complain about seeing DS/UB all the time, well it will stay that way until they aren't necessary perks for the most part.
Well, I have fun as a Survivor playing against Campers. I enjoy the challenge of getting the person off that hook. I don't like leaving anyone behind. So it is a matter of mindset.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192968#Comment_2192968
Survivors aren't a team, same goals and objectives yes but just becuse you both want thr same thing doesn't mean your going to work together. And If you play with others outside a swf you'll find that's pretty evident
If you were awarded points based on the number if survivors who rscspe then you could argur it's a team game but as it currently is, it's not.
Its no more a team game than Microsofts bing and Googles search engines are on a team, sure they both try and do the same thing, they both even work together from time to time, but if Google earns a billion dollar contract Microsoft doest get to call that a win, just like the survivors goal is to escape full stop. If he doesn't escape he lost.
And this mentality is EXACTLY why you are terrible at this game, and why you spend so much time complaining. Has it never occurred to you that this approach might not be the most effective? :)
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192730#Comment_2192730
Then maybe they should stop saying just work on gens when your being camped
What they are saying, I firmly believe you know this and are just being purposely obtuse, is that the TEAM should work Generators. Survivors win or lose as a TEAM. If you are being camped, you are tying up the Killer exactly the same as if you were looping him/her around the map. *I do think that IF the Survivor stays on the Hook the entire time (that means all of Stage-1 and Stage-2 without ending either early) that the game should apply them with points and emblem advancement as if they were tying up the Killer in chases. You are, even if unwillingly, doing your team a service.
Again, I cannot repeat this enough times, Survivors are a TEAM and win or lose only as a Team. That means sometimes you sacrifice for them and they sacrifice for you. Playing for yourself alone is detrimental and rarely results in four escapes (almost never). All that aside, you know it isn't cute nor does it impress anyone when you purposely misconstrue the meaning of what people say and play dumb. It is a rhetorical trick and everyone here knows what you are about. We realize it sucks for the person on the hook. That is why we also make suggestions on ways to mitigate your unfun boredom. That is why I'm suggesting a game within a game for that 2nd Stage hooked Survivor, a metaphysical battle with the Entity.
Playing rhetorical games is not constructive. Playing dumb and being obstinate doesn't advance your cause.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191182#Comment_2191182
Yep. Our game experience is not equal or close.
I tried to search my historical win rate on games but I only found some information on https://dbd.onteh.net.au/ . Idk if there is another way. In that case, please tell me =D.
Anyway, that stats don´t say the win rate / kills escapes u have. So, in order to have a more precise data than mi memory, I have started to register my games and take out my "real" stats.
Sadly, you have to track it yourself. I started doing this, recording every match and graphing how things went after I watched a video by Otz on how not to get tilted. I found it very helpful. I am basing win, lose, draw metrics on the loosely agreed upon notion that 3+ Kills/Escapes equals a win for the respective side, 2 Kills/Escapes equals a draw, and 0-1 Kills/Escapes equals a loss. I will openly admit that I'm a VERY competitive person, or I would not be doing the extra work. I found (as Otz said I would) that reviewing videos of matches revealed all sorts of mistakes I made (that I wasn't aware of at the time), things I could do better, things which happened due to bad luck, and things that happened because the Killer or other Survivors did well. I tend to learn MORE from matches I lost than I do the winners. :) I highly suggest reviewing, recording, and graphing. It is the fastest way to get better at this game. However, I understand that most people do not want to do homework for their games. :)
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192418#Comment_2192418
I don't mean to intercept your conversation with someone else, but I don't understand one thing.
By the sounds of it, you think camping is fun because it (in your opinion) provides a challenge for survivors? Where is the challenge for a killer when it comes to that concept? I say this because as someone who religiously plays 50/50 (survivor and killer both in red ranks) I couldn't even fathom camping in the manner where it forces survivors to hold M1 and call that "fun". Like, I get it, maybe it is fun for others, but for me a challenge is when you have out-smarted survivors during a chase and patrolled generators preventing them from finishing their objective and in turn sacrificing them to the entity. Neither of which Camping for the entirety of a match provides.
Fun is subjective, yes. Camping and Tunneling feels too cheap let alone fun, for those of us who don't use it outside of where they were used as a strat.
For the record, I also play just as much Survivor as I play Killer (as a Solo too). That means my commentary is not based on any bias toward either role. Your question is a fair one, but I submit a couple of things:
- Camping and Tunneling are not automatic win buttons (particularly against good Survivors).
- Challenge and Conflict are the heart of the DbD game engine. This is a PvP game.
- Player Agency is the FUEL that keeps this engine running.
- Killers have fewer choices (agency) to make. They can search and destroy or defend. That is pretty much it. They choose who to chase, and whether to try and defend their downed prey or a specific Generator. Removing defending as an option reduces Killers to Bots, like the ghosts in that old Pac Man game. No choice equals no investment. No agency soon means no Killers. Those Players want to make their own choices too, so they must have some to make.
- I (most people in fact) can have fun in a game whether they win or lose as long as it was challenging.
- Fun doesn't come from the game. I know that is hard to understand, but we bring the fun with us. It is a mindset, nothing more. What an individual perceives as fun varies widely, but I assert that a competitive PvP game is probably best-suited for those that enjoy challenge and conflict. Their fun comes from trying to overcome the obstacles, and that they will have their fun win, lose, or draw. Those people who only enjoy a game if the outcome isn't really in doubt, and an eventual win is certain, are better served by games like World or Warcraft. I'm not saying that to be mean, just stating a fact. When you play World of Warcraft you are NOT really ever in any jeopardy. It is a time in grade thing, with cool visuals and a guaranteed outcome. You WILL win, it is only a matter of time (and not that long). The entire game is a reward engine. You get treats and gold stars far more often... MOST OF THE TIME... do you see my point? Dead by Daylight is different on a fundamental level. You could play this game for years, but until YOU get better, you will not succeed. You will only get treats when you earn them. The two games cater to very different types of people, or at least people who are looking for a different experience. There are those who play both games, but it is clear what they are looking for when they choose one over the other at a given time.
- Realistic expectations is the way to ensure your fun. If you have an unrealistic (or unreasonable) expectation about the outcome of a game, you are going to be unhappy with the results. The dissonance it causes will cut into your fun. To a large degree this is because our ego doesn't like being shown up. It kicks in as a self defense mechanism and causes us to scapegoat things, rationalize the loss, and so on. If you go into a game with lowered expectations, or assuming the worst, you are going to have a lot more fun.
- Long term goals are better for you because short term obstacles and reversals don't matter.
I have bunch more of this but I realize that I'm deviating for our core discussion of Camping and Tunneling. Let's go back to that, Killers do what Killers must, the same as Survivors. They are adapting to whatever the new normal is today. I know this because I play both roles. I have fun in BOTH roles. I take the good and the bad of both roles. I prefer to spend my time playing the game, rather than complaining about it. If I wasn't having fun, I 'd have already moved on to another game.
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@KrosseKrabbePizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192506#Comment_2192506
You know that there are many killers, who will come back for the unhooked person from the other site of the map (which will take a lot of time) just to get them downed and hooked again? Of course if i unhook right infront of their face, it´s my fault. But if i wait and the killer still comes back, there is nothing you can really do.
I comment on this in another thread, but it bears mentioning here too. Why do the Killers return to the hook? It is because the get an audible CUE from the game it self that says, "SOUPS ON! SURVIVORS ARE HERE! COME GET THEM!" I'm indulging in a little humor there but that is a fact. The DEV designed the game to tell Killers, provide them with clues, as to where the Survivors (at least two of them) are located. Ask yourself WHY the DEV did that? They expect the Killer, if he/she isn't chasing someone else and has no other clues, to turn around and go there. They do NOT expect the Killer to act against his/her own self interest. Do you see my point?
The DEV expect SURVIVORS to take actions to protect whomever it is they just unhooked. That is a SURVIVOR job, obligation, responsibility, etc. and in the Survivor's interest to do so. They get points for safe rescues, have another Survivor who gets back on Generators, and so on. Everything about a rescue is positive for Survivors. Consequently, it has to be earned and cannot come without risk. The DEV decided early on that the Killer hears a dinner bell. Blaming the Killer for acting on the advice of the game itself, is silly. :)
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192471#Comment_2192471
I'm fully aware that returning to the hook is part of the game. I'm not sure if you're trying to imply something here.
I'm not implying anything; I'm directly stating that the DEV expect and are encouraging Killers to go to that location, i.e. where someone just got pulled off the hook. The DEV expect SURVIVORS to take actions to prevent the Killer from going after the same person. They do not expect the Killer to make that choice against self interest. The very design of the game demonstrates that fact. Consider the following Perk suggestion:
Clandestine
The Survivor is adept and hoisting someone off hooks in a secretive way so as not to alert the Killer of the rescue in progress. The Killer will not receive the audible cue when the rescue transpires and there is a delay on how long it takes before the icon on the screen tells the Killer the person has been unhooked: 3 seconds at Level-1, 5 seconds at Level-2, and 7 seconds at Level-3.
*This is an example of another Perk that would make things harder on the Killer.. OR WOULD IT? It would make it harder for the Killer to return to the hook at the right moment to catch someone there, because they would have longer to vacate the area safely. Or would the existence of this kind of Perk all but ensure that the Killer would NOT leave the hook, intent on making sure he/she secures that Kill or is there when the rescuer arrives? I think Perk above would be great, but it would have to be released at the same time as some OTHER enticement to make sure that waiting at the Hook isn't as profitable as going out to hunt. Do you see my point?
Unintended consequences happen with every change. The goals of the Killers and Survivors are mutually exclusive. The DEV have, through trial and error, discovered several unintended and undesirable consequences to trying to punish Camping and Tunneling. They now follow a different path and attempt to give Killers enticements and Survivors tools. They give us knives and forks and say, "dig into that steak." Right now we are in a new stage of the game's evolution, one brought on by increasing numbers (and efficiency) of SWF. Has Tunneling and Camping increased? Yes, I'd assert in direct correlation of the rise of SWF beyond being niche, a few friends playing together into becoming dominant over Solo. Until that is addressed, Killers are adapting, doing the ONLY thing they can to keep up. It is an unintended consequence of an unintended consequence. I don't disagree with you that something should be done. I just think treating the ACTUAL root cause of the problem is the right way to go. Destroying the agency of Player's in the Killer role wouldn't fix the problem, it would create a host of new ones.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
Ok lets all stand down for a moment calm down take deep breaths.
Understood. :)
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@Nomporu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192453#Comment_2192453
I mean, I feel like the site having a block option would help.
The fact that you are telling me to not post is horrible.
Because I don't want to interact with one person, but still want to show me agreeance with people and state my opinions, I should just never post?
Yeah, you could simply choose NOT to read my post. Your block is achieved. If you feel you have nothing of value to get from me, just skip them. I may not be responding to you expecting YOU to get anything from my posts. I might simply be responding because I know other people might.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191217#Comment_2191217
You don't need to record matches to know when a killer returns to the hook. I can see it happening clearly with my own eyes.
This isn't just some conclusion I reached prematurely. I've playing for years now. Watching closely how the killer and survivors play.
And from what I've seen, killers do have a tendency to return to the hook.
Returning to the hook isn't Tunneling. Killers are in search and destroy mode. The very fact that the Killer had to return to the hook shows they left it in the first place. When someone is unhooked, as I'm sure you know, they get an audible cue telling them someone just unhooked that Survivor. That means the Killer knows it is a HIGH probability that 2+ Survivors are in that area of the map. If they haven't found anyone else yet or have any better clues to location, of course they turn around. It would be insane to expect them not to do so.
Moreover, the very fact that the game is designed to tell the Killer when a Survivor is unhooked should make it abundantly clear what the DEV were going for. If they didn't want the Killer to return to the hook, they wouldn't put in that cue. The Killer is merely going to where they KNOW there are people. Now, if the Survivor who unhooked someone immediately vanishes like a Ninja, leaving only the injured party there for the Killer to find, the outcome is pretty obvious. It is also the direct result of SURVIVOR interactions and choices.
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@Nomporu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192433#Comment_2192433
I never said people can't response....
It's the fact that we've interacted previously in a not so favourable fashion and you insta-replied to my post when you know I don't want to interact with you.
I could care less what you want. Your posts on the Forum are open for responses from anyone. You have a 100% foolproof way of making sure you never interact with me; don't post. I'm not going to respond to everything you say. If you make good arguments, I'll either say "good one," or say nothing at all as my chiming in would not be required. If you make incorrect statements, or rather assertions I do not agree with, I'm going to speak up. You are in the WRONG place if you think you get to decide who gets to respond to your ideas.
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@Nomporu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192418#Comment_2192418
Please leave me alone, the fact that we've previously interacted and you replied with this large of a paragraph so quickly after me posting 7 minutes ago is unnerving as heck.
You have a choice, keep your thoughts to yourself or put them up on the Forum. If you post here, people may respond. That is the chance you take. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You might look up the definition of the word "forum" as I suspect that will help you understand this place a little better.
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@Nomporu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188701#Comment_2188701
Wait you're the guy that posted on my thread!
The fact that anyone has 'tunneling and camping are fine' as an opinion is insane to me.
Camping is unfun in every game, and shouldn't be in any game.
That's objective.
It would only be "objective" if the universe revolves around you. It is YOUR "objective" truth. Are you one of those people who believes the world began when you opened your eyes, and it will all end when you close them again? I hate to break it to you champ, but there are other people in the world and they are "real" not just figments of your imagination. They have thoughts and opinions running around in their minds too. And shocking though it may be, many of them may not agree with you. :)
I, for example, think tunneling and camping are fine, just tactics and one more obstacle I have to work around as a Player. To me, the fun is in the challenge. I assure you that I am 100% sane. Since my objective truth is different from yours, I have just proven that NEITHER of our truths is objective. Are you able to follow. The mere existence of you and I proves that our respective truths are "SUBJECTIVE."
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@KrosseKrabbePizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189479#Comment_2189479
Since they don´t chase me or playing like they would try to, i assume, they think they are too bad to go for chases.
What else should i do? I must not complain here and scream for changes, i must not try to not get angry as well? Is there anything in your opinion, what i could do instead? It was you or someone else here who said "get over it".
Well... this is the hardest thing you will ever do... but it is the right thing to do. You have to accept that the Killer who just won is better than you. You have to take responsibility for the loss, own it. You have to embrace the notion that those tactics (whatever they may be) are part of the game and that YOU must adapt and find a way around them rather than trying to judge them or make excuses for them. I've been there, and I completely understand where you are at right now.
I am being direct with you. I did not get better at this game until I took that very hard, unfun step of introspection and honesty. It hurts but think of it like jumping into cold water and swimming in a river. It is only ice cold for a moment before you adapt. Then you can enjoy the fun of it. We like to think of ourselves as great and anything that goes wrong comes from outside, but this self defense mechanism only protects the ego, it doesn't help you excel. Hence...
Our eyes are politicians, telling us only what we want to hear.
They begin each day in consultation, whispering lies,
Embellishing facts, adding spin to each truth the mirror reveals.
The day is a minefield of honesty, which the eyes must traverse.
Each step of rocky, broken ground, warrants caution,
Needs mapping, to become part of the larger, safer lie.
Myself, I am a welfare child, whom the eyes valiantly protect.
I end each day contented, in a dream with all promises kept.
I see no harm in that.
I apologize for the detour into poetry but sometimes people understand metaphor better than they they do direct statements. You are going to have to decide which is more important to you, ego or getting better at the game. There is no other way to say it. All things come at a price, and competitive ventures (all of them) demand a sacrifice. It is usually ego. You have to accept that you aren't good, you aren't even competent. Other people are better than you. Only by sacrificing your ego and ending the self delusion you use to protect it, can you make progress. You cannot build a castle on a foundation of sand. The good news is that one day, when you have become truly good at the game, your ego will rise again, but at least this time it will be based on fact and not scapegoating.
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@MrBuffalo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189472#Comment_2189472
Okay but counter point to this. Since the DS nerf I have seen a MASSIVE increase of tunnel and camping killers so no that argument doesnt hold up anymore. Either revert D strike so we can actually combat being tunneled and camp (All the nerf should have been is stopping them from touching a gen or hiding in a locker) or find a way to stop them from camping and tunneling with out the use of a perk. cause "Those are strategies" doesnt work with the current pipping system they aren't strategies anymore not since the emblem system was added. Sure it's not happening every game but its happening more than you think it is.
- No you haven't.
- If you have, it is because a bunch of whining Survivors who were angry they can't use DS to do objectives in the Killer's face chose to stop bringing it. When nobody brings DS the Killers don't get an Obsession (unless some other Obsession Perk is in the game). That means Killers have no reason to be concerned about whom to hit. If Survivors start taking DS again, it will have an offset back to where things were before. This assumes you are right about the increase (I don't think you are).
- There are lots of ways to combat being tunneled, but Survivors are unwilling to use them. Safe rescues, taking protection hits, trading hooks, Borrowed Time, etc. There used to be a thing where Survivors spread those hooks out among themselves to win the game. What I have noticed, both as a Killer and Survivor is a marked decrease in being willing to put oneself at risk in Solo. :) If they do a rescue, they vanish like Ninja as soon as they unhook and make no attempt to protect the person they just rescued. In fact, I've noticed they will unhook with the person they are saving between them and the approaching Killer. I've even seen them use the person they just rescued as a meat shield.
It is the JOB of Survivors to protect each other and prevent Tunneling. It is not the Killer's responsibility to do the Survivor's job for them.
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@Lord_Tony said:
desperately trying to find a single survivor.
Find a survivor 1 gen goes off.
Hook the survivor another gen goes off.
That's already 2 gens in 60ish seconds and you only got 1 hook.
And if you can't find a single survivor and gens are going off then you already lost.
How is this fair? Why do survivors always spawn next to a generator? Why do survivors spawn next to each other, next to a generator without any offerings to be close?
Trust me, I play Myers almost exclusively. I feel the pain of searching for Survivors. I want to assure you that things will improve. After awhile, you will have pretty good sense of where you can find them. The game has certain spawning tendencies which cuts down the map a pretty good amount. A basic is to run a route toward the three furthest Generators; try to make the route in such a way that you don't put yourself on either perimeter as that decreases your sight line and narrows how much you will hear. A serpentine through the center gives you the best chance. Besides, if the Survivors are working their way around the perimeter they are moving slowly too.
I'm certain you already know, but Corrupt Intervention is your best friend. You get two minutes of the furthest away Generators locked down so if they want to start on anything early, you know exactly where they will be, and forced to move toward you. If you are having trouble locating Survivors currently, a trick I used to use is the Perk: Thrill of the Hunt. Usually the first Totem is touched within twenty seconds of the match starting. This will give you an audible alert and buy you time to get there. Since Survivors tend to spawn in 2+ group, it means you have just cut your map down by 75%. The build I used for Myers when I wasn't confident in search and destroy was:
Ruin, Thrill of the Hunt, Play With Your Food, & Undying (If not Myers, put in Corrupt instead of PWYF)
Thrill of the Hunt and Undying together are better than motion sensors. This build will guarantee your Ruin last a bit longer (sometimes a lot longer) and you WILL find them very quickly. A great interaction of Corrupt Intervention in this build is that many Survivors don't want to go toward those four open Generators because they suspect you will be looking for them there. They don't want to waste the time so they start cleansing Totems and hitting Chests. Bingo, you found them again. And if you do play Myers, in Tier-1 with Thrill of the Hunt in Play you have a pretty good chance of grabbing someone of the Totem if you play your cards right before they even cleanse it.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191095#Comment_2191095
I don't need to record my matches. It's easy to tell whether or not the killer returns to the hook.
And thus you prove my point.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191126#Comment_2191126
Moundshorud......I have not enginnering on Maths or Stathistics. I know I have biasses as u said.
But for me the unbalance of the game is very simple when I see that survivors win 15% of the times and killers 85%.
Balance is a mathematical concept= around 50%. It happens in LOL, smite or whatever be the game. It doesn´t matter how good or bad you play. U will be around 50% win rate because the matchmaking works for that creating balanced and close games.
If on DBD balance means killers win and demolish solo survivors 85% of the times, and that´s how the win - rate must be.... Ok. I´ll just accept it, althought I think it´s not fair, not close, not exciting.
And if killers, by valid strategies like camp or tunnel, can get you out of the game so easily, it´s even mooore frustrating. I insist that I don´t know what would be the best option (devs and players with more hours and knowledge about the game may have a wider sight of the situation). I´m just pointing, as a regular survivor player, what for me is a problem and a situation I´d like to be revised on next updates of the game.
It suffices to say our experiences do not line up. I play Solo Survivor too, roughly equal to the hours I play Killer. I played a rather large number of matches the last few days to get Gnomes for myself and my gal (who has not been able to play and would miss the event). Total, between my own account and hers, I played twenty-four games to get those damn Gnomes. In my own account, fourteen of those matches are accounted for. I personally died only four times, and none of them were due to Camping or Tunneling. I was camped a total of twice, but in both cases my teammates were able to take me off the hook despite the Killer being right there. Of these fourteen games, six were wins for the survivors, i.e. 3+ Survivors got out. Four were draws, wherein the Killer got two of us and the others got away. Four wins went to the Killer with 3+ Kills. Since you understand statistics and probability, I'm sure you can parse those numbers for yourself. It suffices to say that your experience with the Killer winning 85% and the Survivors winning 15% is radically different from mine.
However, let's talk about the additional ten games I played on my Gal's account. I died only once and the Killer did tunnel me and proceed to camp me until dead. Six of these matches went to the Killer with 3+ kills, two were draws, and two were victories for the Survivors. Even these numbers do not come close to your experience. I submit, my gal doesn't have near the Perk selection I do and thus I had less to work with and didn't support my team as much as I would have normally done. :) I'll let you do the numbers yourself for the overall metrics. My point is that your experience and my experience are different. The DEV are the only ones that really see EVERYONE'S numbers. You cannot let this Forum give you a Fun House view of the game, stretching and distorting things. For you and I, this game is a luxury item. It is a diversion. For the DEV it is they JOB. Their paychecks depend on this game doing well and extending into the next decade. Who do you think has a greater vested interest in the game, them or us? :) I'm not trying to be snide; I'm just making a point. We assume, because we WANT things, that they just don't understand, aren't competent, and so on. It is hard for me not to consider that perhaps we are being a bit self-involved and arrogant? The DEV don't talk to us much anymore, but can you blame them? I wouldn't talk to us either.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191058#Comment_2191058
I know the old saying about assumptions. I have played killer at the beggining and I haven´t done these "valid strategies". And if stomped survivors, I usually gave the hatch. But nevermind. Not my intention to talk bad about your friend.
As you certainly say, I play the game because I like it. And I like the concept of assimetrical action strategy game. But, I am expressing my personal opinnion about the game I play. I think that´s very licit. You also are expressing your oppinons.
Game rules allow all the tactics we have spoken about. And that makes them licit.
Anyway, I firmly think game is not balanced for those ones who play solo queue, and I have said it on many posts. If a killer play camping, tunneling and applying these "legal" technics, chances for solo survivors are almost 0. And it´s quite frustrating winning 1 game out 10 to have to deal with this tryhard strategies instead. Looks like is horrible if a killer loses a game.
SWF can deal better with these strategies as they have real time communication and game information. Solo survivors play blinded and discordinated against a killer that sometimes play as tryhard as possible to assure a 4k victory. Solo Q need to have proper tools to be able to handle this actions. And please, don´t tell me I can get in on perks. I know I can get: kindred, bond, small game and empathy. To get the same information (or even less), than the information that the SWF have for free instead of 4 perks.
Pulsar and I know each other here only, and I am friendly with most people I respect. But you would be making a dangerous miscalculation (another assumption) if you think for a second that our being polite and respectful of one another means we always agree. We all have things we would like to see happen in the game. I don't think the DEV are infallible anymore than anyone else. I do think, however, they probably understand what they need to do to keep the game going better than we do because our biases (all of us) blind us to certain realities. Moreover, we don't know everything going on behind the curtain. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Camping and Tunneling are tactics. They are often identified incorrectly, and almost always exaggerated in how often they come up. I don't think most Survivors are lying on purpose, but our natural tendencies as Players is to blame others before we blame ourselves. We look for scapegoats. I'm not immune to this. I have to work hard to take off those blinders. More to the point, even if Camping and Tunneling are happening ALL THE TIME (they aren't) it simply behooves us to adapt. If there has been an increase in these tactics, I would suggest the increase runs hand in hand with the increase in the number of SWF. For better or for worse, Killers must adapt to compete. Solos do take the brunt of the existence of SWF. I often make suggestions on how to deal with what I see as the root of the problem.
In regards to being camped, I've also suggested that the person on the hook who ahs gone to Stage-2 (the Entity has arrived) should lose sight of the rest of the match. We still see them struggling against the Entity's talons on the hook, but their perception is transported into a mini-game (within the game) where they solve puzzles, perhaps fight, etc. to try and buy more time and/or perhaps even unhook themselves. This would make the time on the hook less boring, and not have the person out of the game. I'm still working out some specifics before I do a proper suggestion thread on it. The real problem isn't people being Camped or Tunneled, but rather feeling powerless and impotent on the hook. We don't need to steal something from Killers, we merely need to add some content for the hooked so they have more to do than watch OTHER people play. :)
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191020#Comment_2191020
They aren't grossly exaggerating. I play a lot of survivor myself and see it happen all the time.
Killers have gotten used to snowballing off hook rescues. And I can see why. It's pretty effective against solo queue players who have a much harder time coordinating plays.
I used to agree with you. Then I started recording every game I play (in both roles). I started graphing behaviors and confirming whether something was a Camp or an actual Tunnel. The results I got convinced me I was 100% wrong. When I took the advice of Otz (in his video about not getting tilted) my game play started improving. He is the one who suggested recording games not for content but to study what I could do to improve. I founded that the old saying, "we lie best when we lie to ourselves" is very telling when it comes to Dead by Daylight. I was incorrectly identifying things, exaggerating how often they happened, and not taking responsibility for my own part in what took place. Every single one of my friends started doing it too, and they had exactly the same results I did. That is why none of us say "Jack" about Camping, Tunneling, etc. anymore. This forum simply has far too many people whose ego cannot accept that they themselves are responsible for MOST of what happens to them in a match.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190893#Comment_2190893
I don´t know why behaviour just consider they are good practice when people is contioniusly complainit about it. This people is who buys the skins, the dlc´s, and at the end, keep the game alive .
Too much secretism on their game stats also. Why do they save this informtion so hard? It´d be very obvius how unbalanced is this game if stats come out.
It is because game balance isn't determined by a vocal minority that complain about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that doesn't go their way. Adults don't reward children who scream in the middle of the store about the candy or toy they want. Obnoxious, entitled demands generally get the response they deserve from the DEV which is either silence or a simple clarification that what is they are complaining about is a valid tactic. There will be no Deus Ex Machina here. The DEV have provided Survivors all the tools they need to deal with Camping and Tunneling. You have the knives and forks, it is up to you to carve up that steak. That is the game. That is the challenge.
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@Artemisha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189890#Comment_2189890
That talks a lot about you. You don´t care about others game experience. So you wanna win at any cost, don´t you? Although you are not allowing people to play the game
I kind of laughed when I read this post, because your description (assumptions) about Pulsar are kind of hilarious. He and I have had our debates in the past (some good ones too). One thing I can say about Pulsar, having been on both sides of the battlefield, is that he cares about this game and does his level best to help other Players. He is nice, where I am not. I've watched him spend hour after hour patiently trying to offer the benefit of his experience to people (many complaining about camping and tunneling) so that they can mitigate or beat the problem. The people he was attempting to help were rude and obnoxious but he kept trying. He is direct and not the least bit hypocritical. In short, you just made a fool of yourself. You know the old saying about assumptions right?
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game. It has winners and it has losers. The two different roles are CLEARLY defined by their titles, i.e. Killer and Survivor. A Killer's objective is to kill the Survivors, and everything within the rules is valid, legitimate and fair. Survivors mean to Survive and everything within the rules for them is also fair. Blaming other people or the game itself for one's personal failures is hobbling to you. One cannot improve until one takes responsibility for his/her own actions. You have no power over how other people play. You have no say in how the game's rules are determined. The only thing you have power over is yourself. It is far more productive to focus your energy on how YOU will mitigate or beat the issues you have in the game. In regards to fun, you are not responsible for anyone's fun by your own. You bring your own fun. If you aren't enjoying the game, you should find another. I assume if I play you that you enjoy the game; since you already understand the rules, your expectations should not be unreasonable. If you have unrealistic expectations, your fun is going to suffer and that ALSO will be your own fault.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Maybe play survivor as much as you do killer and you'll find out how prevalent camping and tunneling is.
I do; I play roughly the same hours in both roles. The simple truth of it is MOST Survivors who complain about being Camped and/or Tunneled are grossly exaggerating how often it happens, and/or identifying it incorrectly. These same Survivors, the most vocal complainers, seem unable and unwilling to take advice on how to deal with the obstacles, are aggressive, rude, and clearly enjoy complaining about the game more than playing it. I wish there was a nice way of putting it, but these are simply people who blame their own failures on other people and/or the game. It is pathetic.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189980#Comment_2189980
Ok, imagine you're playing custom mode, with friends, are you gonna camp and tunnel them? Or is it a pre game rule to even stop using BT or DS cause the "no camping, no tunneling" is pre stablished?
Ok, now, what's the difference between not camping or tunneling your friends vs doing it to strangers? So... Yes... There are other people besides you in the game... I'm not telling you to shoot your own foot if you're doing good, but more like playing wiht "fair" or "socially accurate" gameplay.
Now, the point of my post is not for you to stop tunneling, camping, gen trushing, etc. but to let people know it's ok to do so, it's a gamestyle, a dick move gamestyle, but it is allowed by the devs, not punishable, not bannable, be my guest,
I play custom games with friends all the time; as I believe that is what Custom Games are for, i.e. playing with friends. We use all the same tactics against each other that we do in the game and none of us are offended by it.
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@Carlosylu said:
"Toxic Gameplay", what about camping, tunneling and slugging?
This concepts do exist and are actually allowed and not punishable, BUT, it's a matter of respect in terms of gaming, you can either play "correctly" caring for other people's experience, or just be a dick about it.
Killers camping, slugging or tunneling are as much of a dick move players as survivors clicky clicking, gen rushing or teabagging the killer.
If you need to explain reasons that allow you to be a dick to others in order to "better" achieve your objectives as either killer or survivor, you do not need them, be my guest, you can do it regardless of people complaining about this behaviour.
Just please don't be one of those people who play without caring about other player's experience and then complain when someone does that to you. THIS IS JUST A GAME, AND IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.
I will Camp, Tunnel, Slug, etc. if (and only if) a match calls for it. These are tactics and are no more "scummy" than any other. Likewise, I'm not going to complain when other people use valid, legal tactics as that would be hypocritical. I do care about the experience of other Players, which is why I always:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spike.
- Don't disconnect; if I start a game, I finish it.
- I'm humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
That is all it takes to be a good sport in Dead by Daylight. Your post is an attempt to grief/shame other Players, i.e. affect the Meta outside the match. It is obnoxious and bad sportsmanship. Please hold yourself to whatever standards and behaviors you like. It is rude to try and foist your personal code on others.
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Dead Hard is FINE as it is now. And full disclosure, I don't run it as a Survivor and fight against it all the time. Suck it up and learn to play around it.
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Or they are simply delusional or lying.