Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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Or, how about banning Generator camping. If you stop working on a Generator you can't touch it again until you find another one and bring it all the way up. :) You got pushed off that one, so you can't go back to that one. You MUST do a different Generator first. And you really shouldn't be able to tunnel a vault, only one use each and you can't go back through one until you go do a different vault. That seems fair right? :)
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I suspect they will follow the precedent set by Pyramid Head, where certain criteria have to be met. I would prefer if said criteria was unique to each Killer, as that would certainly be cooler. My only other thought is:
I'd like a refund for all the unused Mori Offerings still on my Killers if/when the change takes place and it is no longer an Offering. The Blood We forced me to buy a metric ton of these things, and suddenly making them invalid without compensation would be a pretty harsh blow, particularly given the price of the Ebony Memento Mori.
It would be a very fair and kind gesture to refund us the BP value or at least allow us to swap them out for other items of the matching rarity (or less) in the Blood Web one for one.
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Turning over the asylum to the lunatics is never a good idea. It would have been better had they said nothing at all about this during the Livestream than this vague, worrisome idea. It should simply be scrapped, right now. There is NO INTERATION possible where this doesn't go south. The amount of safeguard it would require to prevent abuse would end up having the DEV doing just as much work as they do now with the current, bad reporting system. For the most part, reporting should ONLY exist for bugs. That's it. What they need is:
- Better anti-cheat code which applies automatic bans when hacks or unsanctioned mods are detected.
- A system not unlike they have for disconnects to track and punish suspect lag spikes.
- Eliminate end game chat entirely and make people go somewhere (like here) to talk which is more easily moderated.
That's it. Eliminate all reporting except for Bugs and let the system deal with the only things that are actually against the rules. Players should never have been the first line of defense against hackers, lag spikes, and hate speech. We all know most of the things that Players get reported for are not punishable offenses, not real, and will lack any evidence to back them up. There is such a backlog of this garbage that the few real reports probably take forever to get worked (if they even do).
A report system grants the ability to "vote people off the island" to the lowest common denominator in our game. The reason there is such an immediate and passionate reaction to this, even without seeing the details, is because many of us have been through this in other game systems. It is always the same disastrous result. Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done safely and in a way that actually solves the current workload problem? No. I've already given my feedback to them and I'm not going to spend weeks in a tizzy posting about this constantly. This is probably my last post about it until we hear some details or it becomes an idea they decide against. To put this concern in perspective:
- I have (and so have you) already seen posts by deluded people who don't understand what is against the rules and what isn't clearly inferring they will use it against anyone they deem is tunneling or camping.
- Nobody has ever implemented this kind of system where it worked and stayed online. They always end up going offline, being horribly abused, or modified so much that they end up all being manual in the end anyway. In short, why create a system to lower the demands of the reporting workload that will end up being just as bad if not worse?
- Finally, we have all met our so-called community. Do I need to say more? :)
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Oh I don't know, I think it is a nice option although it is more like a training wheels Perk that most Killers will eventually drop. Besides, it gives one more reason for people to consider Distortion. :)
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The only thing I care about is that I'm refunded for all the Mori Offerings I still have unused once they make it no longer Offering. :)
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215837#Comment_2215837
And keep simping for a company that keeps doing dumb decissions and literally ignoring the community.
This was obnoxious and uncalled for. Please refrain from assuming anyone not agreeing with you is a shill. As it happens, I also am concerned about the implications of auto-bans due to reporting. I voiced those concerns and now I'm done with it. Attacking Jasix personally for not agreeing with you would make you exactly the kind of person who would abuse such a system. You would do well to apologize.
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@DeathByGiggles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2215463#Comment_2215463
Hey there! To be clear, the feature is still in development, which is why we said to sit tight for more info - we're waiting for finalized details that we can share, too! ❤️
Fair enough and I appreciate you clarifying that. I love you guys, and I think that shows in my post. I don't fly off the handle willy nilly, and I always give the DEV the benefit of the doubt. I understand the desire to come up with something that does this, but I also know the track record of every game company that has tried this before. Some things sound like good ideas in theory but just don't work. This is one of them. My suggestion (and I give it with all humility) is:
- Get better anti-cheat software which auto-bans hackers and unsanctioned Mods.
- Setup a system like you have for disconnects to apply increasing bans to suspect lag spikes.
- Get rid of end game chat altogether and have people go talk where it can be moderated more easily or on their own dime.
Leave everything else out of it. Get rid of reporting altogether except for Bugs and things like that. The majority of things reported aren't offenses, aren't real, or come without evidence. We understand that, and sympathize with the ridiculous work load this must create. The laws of unintended consequences THRIVE on complicated systems like "reports/votes" so they are best avoided.
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@DeathByGiggles said:
Hi there! 😊
Just to confirm, the autoban changes are not live yet. We totally understand the concern with this. We'll announce more information closer to the date they get pushed live for full clarification!
With all due respect, I don't think you do. The very fact that you are telling us that it isn't "live yet" means you already coded it. That in of itself was a big mistake. There are no safeguards to prevent what is coming which don't actually result in you guys having to do MORE work than you are doing right now. The tiny bit of information you just gave us does more harm than good, because it sounds like you just created a system (in hopes of lowering your workload) that allows for "voting people off the island." Perhaps you have come up with some innovative NEW way of approaching this which will work. It would have been better to tell us everything now, or tell us nothing at all. This problem, which we take very seriously, is now overshadowing everything cool that was told to us during the Livestream. It is literally shooting yourselves in the foot. Why would you do this? Telling people not to worry, when many of us have gone through this BEFORE at other games who tried this folly isn't going to help. At this point, you might as well be transparent and tell us how it is going to work. Nothing short of that is going to calm any nerves.
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@Mandy said:
There'll be more information about the autoban system in due course, I don't think anyone needs to worry about this at the present time.
I hope you are right Mandy, but there is no iteration of letting the inmates run the asylum that ends well for anyone. What was talked about is essentially letting the worst common denominator of our community "vote people off the island." There are no safeguards that can be put into place that cause the DEV "less work" than the reporting system we already have. :) I know this for a fact because this has been tried before with many other games, and it has been a miserable failure in every single attempt. For better or for worst, bEhavior is going to need to find a way to track for hackers, lag spikes, and vile hate speech themselves. In the end, the only things that should be reportable are hackers, lag spikes, inappropriate disconnects, and vile after game chatter. These things can (and should) be tracked by automation within the code. Players should not be the first line of defense against these things. The only real solution is a composite of the following:
- Get better anti-cheat code which bans people automatically for using hacks and unsanctioned mods.
- Treat mysterious lag Spikes the same way as disconnects, i.e. if it becomes a problem one gets ever increasing bans.
- Disable all after game chat and make people go be toxic somewhere else that can be moderated (or on their own dime).
That's it. The best way to remove the problems faced by both Players and the DEV is to simplify the system and tackle only those things that matter. Everyone knows that the majority of Reports are either citing things which are not against the rules, are simply made up, and don't come with any evidence. I can only imagine the workload that creates. I can empathize with wanting a way to streamline that system. This isn't going to streamline anything other than sending good Players packing.
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I have to say that the first time I'm banned for breaking no rules, instead it is because I played the game well an offended people who don't understand the rules, is the last time you see me. :) I realize that the DEV are probably overwhelmed by the current number of (mostly idiotic) reports. This is not the solution. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see exactly how this system will break down. It won't decrease their work. If they think they are overwhelmed now, imagine their workload as thousands upon thousands of people enter complaints and want their cases reviewed. Imagine the loss in Players if they are simply told there won't be reviews. One can only hope it will be a combination of automation and real humans. As such it should work like this:
- A clear pattern, and we are talking VAST numbers, indicate a Player gets a lot of Reports.
- This would then trigger a live person to go through said reports and review actual EVIDENCE.
- An automatic Ban should trigger against every person among those vast numbers who did a false or incorrect report.
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Yep and I'm very pleased about it. It would NOT be Resident Evil without the AI Zombies. I can proudly say that I called it (in a post several weeks ago) that there would be AI Zombies AND I guessed there would be an "infected" part of the power working not unlike Vommie Mommy, complete with finding Anti-Virus. This isn't because I'm smart, but rather that these things are too iconic for RE not to have been included.
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Ghostface because his mechanic is clunky and inconsistent.
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I'd love to see some mention of the new Resident Evil Killer power and I hope it is either AI Zombie Bots, or drone Bots the Killer can switch about the map with, not unlike how Victor is controlled. I just can't see RE without Zombies along with the big Killer.
My best memory from DbD is still my first game before I knew anything at all and the full on horror experience was still in effect. The maps were creepy and I jumped every time I saw the Killer appear. A close second is finally hitting Rank-1 as Killer playing only Myers.
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@eSPiYa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213594#Comment_2213594
What you call killers that are patrolling around the basement building? Or intentionally chasing the freshly unhooked survivor despite of there are other survivors near the killer? There was an instance where the killer is near me and can see me repairing a generator went back because the survivor got from opposite direction which is a lot further than me got unhooked and downed then hooked again until he died.
True, the killer on my last game hooked the other 3 survivors three times and me twice that was why he got 30k BP. Well, I saved him first and didn't know that the killer is just patrolling the shack area, and thought he's leaving. When I saw the pattern, I didn't tried to save anyone again from the basement and just focused on fixing gens. But what can I do alone playing with other stupid survivors? Everyone is fairly high ranked but they can't see that the killer is camping.
So to discourage most killers to play like an a-hole, better add some kind of deterrence. They can still do the camping and tunneling if they want to, but in exchange they won't earn points doing that. If they really want to reach higher ranks, they should start playing properly. Doing such sh-tty play proves that they are low-rankers. Do anyone here sane enough to think that a douche player should be on green and higher ranks?
I'd have to write you a long essay to thoroughly cover this topic, and I'm trying to do that less often. You are relatively new to the game. I feel for you; I really do. We have all been there. However, I'm a straight shooter. I would be doing you a disservice by telling you anything other than the cold, hard truth. Tunneling, Camping, Slugging, Herding, 3-Gens, and a whole lot more are just tactics, tools in the Killer's tool chest. Sometimes they are the right call and sometimes they are not. Survivors also come with a pretty well-stocked tool chest; the difference is Survivors have to work as a team for their tactics to work. I understand your frustration, but I want to assure you that it isn't the Killer who is to blame for your woes. It is a combination of your teammates and yourself. Success only comes with time. If you like you can play with me and my friends so you have a taste of what it is like to have people who:
- Attempt Safe Rescues as a first choice
- Bring Borrowed Time
- Bring DS
- Carry things like the Styptic Agent
- Are willing to risk downs as viable bait
- Unhook with themselves between the Killer and the person they are saving
- Are willing to take protection hits for the unhooked
- Are willing to trade hooks for the good of the team
- Are willing to take risks to sabotage hooks
- Are willing to steal chases and/or do shoulder saves
I could go on but I'm moving into essay territory. Long story short, it isn't the Killer's job to protect Survivors or make it easier for you to rescue them (or be saved). In fact, their job is the opposite. It is the job of SURVIVORS to protect one another. You get points for rescues; altruism is a key part of the game and advancement. You don't get those points for nothing; the DEV expect and want there to be risk so they are earned. Think about this fun fact, the game is designed to ring a big old DINNER BELL whenever someone is unhooked. The Killer is getting both an audible and visual cue when a rescue is taking place. Why would they do that if they didn't expect the Killer to return to the hook, or at least give them the opportunity? One might infer from this design that the DEV want rescues to be dangerous so that the points are earned. They also give Survivors all the tools they need to deal with the problem. I've been rescued from a face-camping Killer, right under his/her nose, more times than I can count. It isn't impossible
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I'd rework Sole Survivor so it functions more or less the opposite of how it does now. That is to say you get the best protection and distance from the Killer reading your aura while your teammates are still alive. That shrinks with each one that dies. This makes makes more sense because you are more likely to be the last Survivor if you were a less available target while the others were around. Right now, it offers little protection and doesn't make you any less likely to be the first victim. Moreover, reworking the Perk this way would make it important for you to keep the rest of your teammates alive as long as possible, rather than be an encouragement for you to let them die (or outright sandbag them).
*However, to rework it as I suggest would mean the ability would also have to gain a Cooldown and/or the ranges shrink. This is because if all four Survivors took it, many Perks and Powers would be rendered useless entirely until people started dying. I think it hiding one's aura for (10) seconds when triggered, followed by 120/90/60 Cooldown depending on Perk Level would be fair.
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@Bonquiqui414 said:
This map is so badly designed. For killer it’s an indoor map so it denies 80% of killer powers and for survivors most the pallets are completely unsafe and the killer doesn’t even have to break them making it super easy to catch survivors and honestly takes no skill. There’s no window loops so if you’re facing a decent m1 killer good luck.
The map is actually very well designed, even Survivor friendly but there is a big caveat; you have to know how to use it. Hawkins is the opposite of Gideon. Both are indoor maps, but one is Pallet heavy while the other is vault heavy. Hawkins is chock full of very effective vaults and most of them connect to some rather potent loops. It is possible to go form one end to the other of Hawkins preventing the Killer from ever closing the distance. Moreover, it is possible to more or less stalemate the Killer on the little catwalks with the vaults if you have good timing.
I'm going to act against my best interests and point you in the right direction. The key to Hawkins is to think in three dimensions. Most Survivors hate the map but that is because they tend to stay on the ground floor. Those up and down catwalks in the various rooms are seen as a last resort or ignored entirely. Let me tell you, when I face a Red Rank Squad that understand those catwalks, I'm cursing in my clodhoppers as I try to figure out how to get them down without having to spend 1-2 minutes in a chase.
If you look, I'm sure there are probably youtube videos about Hawkins and how to run it. It is a small map, and that often favors the Killer, but there are lots of ways to turn that place to the Survivor's advantage. You just have to adapt to running it in a certain way.
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A couple of things, a Killer that got 30K+ gave you a lot of hooks. Killers cap out (just like Survivors) in how many points they get in each grouping. 32K is a perfect game. That means your Killer got lots of hooks, lots of chase time, broke lots of pallets/walls, and pressured your Generators. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trying to con us. That means you are simply misinformed and making a lot of assumptions (wrong assumptions).
I play both Killer and Survivor. Most of my Survivor is in the Solo Queue. It is my experience in both that has taught me that Survivors tend to identify Camping and Tunneling INCORRECTLY most of the time, and confirmation bias makes them think it is happening far more often than it is in fact. I used to think I was being Tunneled and Camped every game too. Some wiser, more experienced people told me the same thing I'm going to tell you now:
- You are wrong.
- You need to research those terms and understand what they mean.
- You need to learn to tell the difference between a Killer's plan and Survivor's mistakes.
- You need to start recording every match to review later to see what you can do better.
- You need to start tracking what happens in your matches using your recordings to do it accurately.
- You can then take stock and understand what is actually happening and how often.
- Once you have firm grip on the reality of the situation, you need to research what approaches will work better.
- You need to put these new tactics and useful information to use in the field.
- You need to log thousands of hours in the field. There are no shortcuts to getting good.
- Last but not least, you have to always be self aware. We lie best when we lie to ourselves. We like to scapegoat. It is easier on the ego to blame other people or the game for our failures. The only person you have power over is yourself, so there is no point in applying your energy and time to anything other than trying to improve yourself.
Does that sound like a lot of work? It is work. All worthwhile things, even games, require some work. Dead by Daylight is a continuous stress test. It isn't just the fictional Survivors being forced to relieve a horrible situation over and over again; we are right their with them. You have to weigh whether or not the stress is worth the fun you are getting. You have to weigh whether you care about really getting good or just want to play for some laughs. If you want to get good, then I've given you a starting point. If you just want some laughs, ignore everything I said and just play the game. The caveat is that you should stop complaining. If you aren't willing to do what it takes to overcome those obstacles yourself, it is unrealistic to ask the DEV to do it for you.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213298#Comment_2213298
You're (somewhat) right (a dichotomy is two options specifically). I miscategorized your quote that "Small Game isn't a counter to NOED. Small Game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems," when I should have said that it was simply wrong. Small game does counter NOED. It doesn't counter NOED specifically, but it does counter NOED. The perception of a came from you assuming that because it counters this, it can't counter that, even though that is a subset of this. NOED is a hex. Small game counters all hexes. NOED is countered by small game. I think what you meant to say is that "Small Game isn't just a counter to NOED. Small game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems," which is pretty different.
We don't take rhetoric or emphasis into conversations of formal (aka pedantic) logic, unless it's about rhetoric. It's simple fact that small game helps you deal with NOED, and I mentioned that all hex perks suffer from small game. Neither of those are untrue. The conversation about which one I'm targeting is irrelevant, and doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'm clearly talking about NOED specifically, and people bringing up small game as a counter to NOED. You don't need a dissertation to see that. Criticism about my complaints being "tunnel vision" don't really address the argument at all. I didn't claim exclusive specificity to NOED, I'm simply talking about NOED in particular. Just because you don't talk about the fact that hydrogen isn't the first element on the period table doesn't make it so that you're claiming it's not.
Saboteur is meddling with a core gameplay mechanic, albeit rarely effective without great coordination. Self-care is a way to heal. These actions, being hooking survivors and injuring survivors, are part of the killer basekit. They are perks weakening the killer basekit. Small game, other than for inner strength, is specifically designed to counter hex perks, and therein lies the issue. It is a perk vs. perk situation, where the threat of a perk necessitates the bringing of counter perk. That's bad game design, since it chips away at perk diversity. Remember when enduring affected DS? It wasn't great, I think we can both agree.
Again, I never claimed specificity to NOED (explicitly or implicitly), and thus the premise of your original comment dead in the water.
These are fair points and well supported. I would assert that you choosing to talk about NOED is going to give the impression I took, even if that was not your goal. However, I would have to disagree with you a bit in regards to NOED specifically. The fact that NOED, alone so far among Perks, only activates at the end of the game makes Small Game less effective against it. You must be dedicated to getting ALL of the Totems to kill NOED, and while Small Game is certainly a useful tool for that purpose, it is rarely used for dedicated Totem hunting. A Map is still far superior. I submit that because of the unique nature of NOED, the Perk: Small Game is the least effective against it. Consider:
- Either the Small Game Survivor is dedicated primarily to hunting Totems (rare) or
- That same Survivor must still be alive and well when NOED finally activates and have time to look for it.
Small Game is best for targets (totems) of opportunity, and that is rarely going to be all of them. Maps are the best method for killing NOED aside from SWF who use the 5th Perk (Comms) to coordinate their destruction and count them down. I 100% agree that Small Game should have gotten a Totem counter on it. You will hear no argument against that from me. You will, however, find me somewhat unimpressed by the unhealthy focus placed on NOED. Of all the Insta-Down Perks/Powers it is by far the least dangerous and most easily dealt with. The only reason it holds its place of infamy is because Survivors are entitled and INCORRECTLY feel that since they brought the Generators up they deserve to get out. They somehow feel things ratcheting up n the final minute is horribly unfair. They clearly forget that the Killer has effectively played one Perk down the ENTIRE match for this heightened stress at the end, so it was paid for and dearly so. Moreover, everyone seems to forget that Horror movies are always darkest before the dawn. They always end in a roar not a whimper.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213345#Comment_2213345
Thank you for your answer!
Like I said I very much understand the mechanics of the game, the goals, that chases distract from gens, etc. I've been playing this game for years! 😊And I never suggested that the Killer (or Survivors) were there to amuse the other team or owed them anything. I also didn't say that anyone did anything wrong.
I was talking about any chase in general. I don't consider turning a corner on a L or T to get downed in a matter of seconds a chase, so with the emphasis on efficiency to the point of gameplay removal I was merely curious if it was because of a distaste for chases - like in your case it is! That's interesting/cool to know! I think it's less a difference between Killers and Survivors and more a matter of playstyle preferences and rank differences.
Red rank players who are there because they take the game very seriously and hone their skills obviously thinking about the game very differently than someone who doesn't take the game seriously, who in green ranks regularly helps the other Survivors escape then throws themselves onto hook for Killer if they played well, etc. I'm the latter! I just unfortunately am red rank because if you so much as touch a generator or another Survivor you basically pip - which is a balance issue, not a player issue.
It is long, drawn out chases I don't care for, i.e. those that have a forgone conclusion but we have to do the ritual dance. Tragic Solitude already covered this but I'll try to frame it from my own perspective. I'm going to catch you. Very rarely does anyone get away from me if I decide I want them. It is only a matter of how bad I want them versus some other objective or opportunity that comes up. In the days when I didn't know anything, that chase could go for five Generators. Today, if I want you, I'm going to have you inside of thirty seconds as a point of pride. So if I KNOW I'm going to get you, it is only a matter of how much resources I'm going to put into the endeavor, it becomes more about resource management and less about a chase. Does that make sense?
My favorite Killer, and the one I play most of the time, is Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror). He doesn't chase, or rather he shouldn't chase. He intercepts. He ambushes. At most he herds you, but always breaks off quickly because it simply isn't in his best interest to chase you at a 105% speed. He is all about the mind game, and how long it takes the Survivors to figure out what they are facing. The longer I can keep them thinking it is a normal Myers, the better. In fact, I like taking Spooky outside and often forgo Map Offerings. Why? I like a challenge; I like the con. I actually do quite well against Red Rank Survivors outdoors, but I am being sneaky. I am pretending to be the Maniac for as long as I can keep up the charade.
A chase, or more precisely looping, is a ritualistic dance once the participants know all the basics. Jungle Gyms are handled a specific way, the shack is handled a specific way, corners are a deathtrap and so on. There are safe pallets and unsafe pallets. Everything has a specific answer and at a certain level of play we all know those answers. The hunt, by comparison, does interest me. I like grabbing people off Generators and during rescues. I like mind games, not in the looping, but in the moments after where they think they have escaped me but I've gone around the long way using my Terror Radius as cover so they still think I'm behind them. I like dropping from above and making people jump. The hunt is fun, the chase is like paperwork. The hunt isn't a sure thing, but to be quite honest, the chase pretty much has a reliable end result.
Red Rank play is my favorite. Most people don't say that, but I'm glad to be here. Dead by Daylight started throwing me to the Reds (as a Killer) the second I hit Green. Apparently, the game thought I was ready for the show. I wasn't of course, but it is a matter of adapt or die, sink or swim. I like my matches hard fought, what others call sweaty. I want my matches in contention, in serious doubt. A victory where the outcome was never in doubt is worthless, hollow. Does this make sense? I hate quitters and people who suicide on the hook with every ounce of my being because they destroy the match. Are they going to cost me a Pip or points? Hell no, I'm going to take it all out of the remaining three (unless they all quit too). It might require me to stretch the game unnaturally, but I still have the resources to break even. Fortunately, the quitters are bit further and far between in the Red Ranks. I know I seem like I'm off on a tangent, but I assure you there is a point and it has to do with your original question.
The best chases, those that I enjoy, are going to outside the norm, ones in doubt. I only get that from the crazy, cavalier Loopers who know no fear. I want the Survivors who are so good that I have to consider playing rattlesnake mean. For me, shallow though it may sound, it is about the big picture chase, not of an individual but the puzzle of all of them together.
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I'm stoked and looking forward to the stream.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
Hi all! Survivor main here! This question might sound salty and/or bait-y but I genuinely want to know something! This is not an anti-Killer post, this is not an anti-perk post, this is not meant to provoke anything negative.
Do you enjoy chases? Be honest!
So often I've been seeing Starstruck paired with the terror radius increase perk (which is a clever build!) or the Michael 'Exposed' perk. Those Killers who didn't have that (and most who did) also have Sloppy Butcher.
Now let me clarify something! I've played this game for a long, long time. I understand that a shorter chase means quicker return to applying gen pressure. I'm not asking for reasons behind the tactic, I get it. I've just noticed that at the rank I'm at now chases are like... Not a thing. At all. I'm seeing red rank tier 1 Survivors run for 5-15 seconds max and get downed. And my casual playing self sure isn't doing any better. 🤣 In 23 rounds tonight I saw two Survivors escape and one only got it by a pure chance hatch. Every other one was a very short round 4k with basically no chases.
Chases are my favorite thing about this game, I really love seeing well executed plays where Killers mindgame me and lure me to a hit. Of course I am excited if I manage to outsmart them and escape. But between 7/23 of my rounds tonight being against Bubba, 5 against Spirit (4 who had Stridor), and a surprising amount of Exposed perk, this was personally one of my least enjoyable nights I've had in DbD. Not because anyone was doing anything wrong but because the chase was ending with one hit right out the gate - it was boring.
I know so much of this is because the game railroads even casual or not skilled players into red ranks where people are good and do play seriously, but just... It shocks me how little Killers seem to want to do any kind of chasing.
I'd also love to know what your favorite part of being a Killer is since I rambled a bit about my favorite part of Survivor! 😊Happy gaming, everyone! <3
The point of a chase is to catch you. Me personally, no... I don't enjoy long drawn out chases. Every second that passes is a ticking clock telling me my chances of winning the match are slipping away. Thus, I'm going to take you out as quickly and efficiently as I can. I'm not going to play Tom & Jerry cartoons with you, take on the role of Wyle E. Coyote for your amusement, or play tag. When I play Killer (I play both roles) I'm already thinking about the next chase, mind game, intercept, or ambush I need to launch even as I'm trying to put you in the ground.
You have to realize that Killers and Survivors have mutually exclusive goals. The longer a chase goes on, the better the odds for every single Survivor getting out alive. Of course Survivors enjoy chases more; that is commonsense. Even when a Survivor is downed, any chase that went 30+ seconds is a serious boost for the team. Thus, while you enjoy chases, most Killers deem them distractions and dangerous to his/her ability to pressure Generators.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Not to mention it's far more effective in a SWF than it ever will be in solos:
-Only one person needs to run the perk to get the full value and you can coordinate builds around this fact, giving you 11 other perks instead of minimum 8
-You know someone is on totems without needing a perk slot on 3 other people to do so.
I still stand by the fact this counter should have been base kit and them not doing so is a slap in the face to every solo survivor who have been complaining for years about the current state of balance- or lack thereof- around solos, killers, and 4man comms swf. That they thought this was an acceptable solo buff, and even said they hoped solos would enjoy it.
Small Game as a perk is not healthy for the game due to it perpetuating the constant power disparity between solos and SWF and yes this is the hill I will die on.
I don't disagree with this at all, i.e. that this Perk acts as a force amplifier for SWF and further increasing the disparity (problem) we have currently. However, I would add the caveat that it isn't the Perk that is unhealthy for the game, but rather the unchecked competitive edge provided by a SWF. Until that disparity is put in check by either unlocking at 5th Perk for Killers whenever they face a 3+ SWF to offset the advantage of the 5th Perk (Comms) and/or increase the objective demands on a SWF, pretty much every single Perk that provides information creates the same imbalance.
And for the record, I'm not saying SWF must go; I'm saying SWF must be addressed by treating them as the SOURCE of the imbalance, and any treatment of the problem has to address THEM. Everything else is a symptom.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213288#Comment_2213288
Read the rest of the paragraph. I mentioned general hexes.
Plus, what you are doing is called a false dichotomy. It is true that small game is a counter to NOED, because small game is a counter to hexes, and NOED is a hex. It is not one or the other, NOED is a subset of hexes.
No, a false dichotomy is a fallacy that limits options. I did no such thing; in fact, I expanded them. NOED is but one Hex. I saw what you wrote in your first post, but you still put all the emphasis on NOED as if it is somehow more important or worse than the others combined. The Perk: Small Game is a designed to counter Hexes. I pointed out that YOU are the one CHOOSING to put an unnatural weight on NOED, and hence your tunnel vision.
Small Game is for people who want to hunt Hexes in general and do not want to take (or don't have the option) a map into the match. It is no different from bringing in the Perk to sabotage hooks when you don't want to use a toolbox, or Self-Care if you don't want (or have) a med-kit. On and on it goes. There are lots of deadly, effective Hexes, and Small Game's purpose is for hunting ALL of them. It isn't a Perk to counter NOED specifically, and thus the premise of your original post dead in the water.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
A lot of people have been hailing small game as the counter to NOED. And it's true, it is a decent counter. But is it really the best idea to have one perk in order to deal with the threat of another perk? Wouldn't it be much better if said perk in need of a counter was made so that it wouldn't need a counter, especially when that counter takes the spot of one precious perk slot out of four? Plus, that's not to mention that small game counters most other hexes (leave my goddamn huntress lullaby ALONE).
What you are doing is called "tunnel vision." Since your main concern is NOED, you seem to have forgotten that Small Game also acts as a counter to every other Hex Perk as well. So in short, your premise is false. Small Game isn't a counter to NOED. Small Game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems.
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@scenekidtrash said:
Genuine question. I've started playing survivor more regularly and getting chased is a lot of fun. Some killers are less fun to go against (Slinger and Spirit lmao) but overall, it's been super fun. Unfortunately, in my games I've been getting a lot of immersers. I literally just got out of a game on The Game with a David and Dwight who rotated lockers in the basement when they heard the TR. I don't get it. I understand for newer players the terror radius can be scary and the first instinct is to hide. But for more experienced players: why do you enjoy immersion? What is fun about it? The entire point of the game is to be chased and escape. Do you not find crouching in a corner waiting for the killer to go away boring? As someone who mostly plays killer, that's why I run whispers on practically every build I have. Not flaming anyone for their playstyle; but I am genuinely curious because it's not my preferred way to play.
You kind of answer your own question, which is to say you just don't understand them because you like chases. They like it because they get the same thrill playing hide and seek as you do playing tag. My advice is you do you and let other people do the things they enjoy (or are good at). You say this is a "genuine question" but I'm going to level with you, it feels more like a passive aggressive attempt at casting shade. In the interest of being nice, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and simply point out that some people like chocolate, some like vanilla, and some like strawberry. A few like Neopolitan so they get all three flavors. If you were to ask them why they like a particular flavor they wouldn't be able to put it into words other than, "I just like it."
I expect there are quite a few Player who have no idea why you enjoy chases.
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@DWolfAlpha said:
Am I the only one that really liked last year's event? I liked the crowns and the skins
Nope, I liked it too.
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@LazyPayday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212991#Comment_2212991
You have a mindset that leads to companies being able to walk all over you. I'm not entitled and I'm not judging myself, I have expectations for a developer to do what they've done in the past or better. If they realized no one would mind if they stopped trying, then they would simply not try. You're once again trying to take the holier than thou route and act like you're not. If we're trying to take that approach, I can say the one's who assume the other's emotions have the weakest arguments. They don't have good points so they try to make it all about emotions.
Oh right, so I'm the sheeple and you are the freedom fighter against those evil companies huh? :) Ok... sure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgjdsy1MpR0 -
@scottydoggie said:
As a survivor main, I personally do not understand it so hopefully someone can give me a logical answer rather than "just because". In no way am I disrespecting killer's because they essentially make the game what it is. I have the upmost respect for them as playing as a killer looks INCREDIBLY stressful.
But what is the purpose of face camping/tunnelling? Lately I am seeing this in more of my rounds... Majority of the time killers will personally seek me out despite having, on average, 3 gens fixed in the time they've managed to down me.
Try playing Killer and Survivor in equal measure. You can ask a thousand of us why we do anything and get hundreds of different answers. The best way to understand the role of Killer is to play it. It is my experience that Players who choose to "main" one role or the other tend accumulate too much bias to judge anything in the game, much less understand (or show empathy) towards the other role. Don't ask; play the role yourself.
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@LazyPayday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212891#Comment_2212891
This is a bad argument, by saying you're being reasonable and your claim is against mine you cannot be saying anything other than I'm being unreasonable. When you're disagreeing with my while complimenting yourself, it does depict the other as the opposite. My problem with the events is not that they haven't done anything for me, it's the lazy approach. Slapping together two new reskin items and an offering that just does the same thing as the past ones with a new image and calling it an event is lazy. If they said they're gonna stop doing events then that's fine, so long as they make up for it in other ways.
Also yes, we've come to expect events, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem being is they actually tried on events in the past, but now it seems like they no longer want to do them so instead they either A: Slap together lazily and call it a day, B: Make it super grindy so it's more worth your time to straight up buy the cosmetics, or C: Make it a code cosmetic (effectively the worst form of exclusive cosmetics) and stopping it there. Also no you didn't, you started off with "lower your expectations" which goes back to calling me unreasonable. The point being is not every addition to this game should be seen as a transaction. If the devs are going to do events in the past, and say they're still doing them now, then they should at least try with it.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I already have everything I paid for, and a lot more. I don't expect them to give me anything more than I've paid for, and understand that they are a business. Everything is a transaction. They continue to give us things all the time, and for that I'm grateful. I keep my expectations low so I don't get tilted like you appear to be. I suggested you lower your expectations because it is a better way to approach things for your sake. If you keep your expectations low, the worst that can happen is you get what you expect. At best you will be happily surprised.
You seem very defensive, and that isn't any of my doing. It has been my experience that people who get overly defensive are actually judging themselves. That is an uncomfortable thing to do and leads one to lash out at others. My original point, and one I stand by, is anything free they give us is still FREE STUFF and is above and beyond what we have paid for. I will have no complaints. I enjoy the game, and that is why I'm here. I agree with you and share your hope for a big event, but hoping for something and feeling entitled to it are two different things. We aren't owed anything more than what we have paid for.
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@LazyPayday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212862#Comment_2212862
Jesus Christ calm down with the high and mighty attitude. You don't think I strive to get better at games I play? That comes naturally while trying to unlock everything, it's kinda hard to track your progress in skill. I'm aware that I'm really good with Hillbilly, but I was never striving to be really good with him, he was my main and I played him a ton, but never did I think "I'm only playing him to get better," I played him because I liked how he worked and enjoyed him. Also what's with that not so humble flex of I have everything in the vault? First off, it's just plain cheesy to call your inventory a vault, I get it, you've played the game a ton and got a bunch of add-ons and offerings because of it.
Also among the 3 friends I have that play this game, 2 are brand new and the last only plays once in a blue moon. They're not looking for a sweaty match where they're put head to head, and I'm not looking to go against them. Oh and another thing, you act like I'm being unreasonable, which is plain stupid. They've done events back when they were still a small team and they did a good event with the Hallowed Blight even (though with a rough start). That event was really good and I look back fondly on it. How is it unreasonable to ask for another event like it? I do claim it as a failure as in comparison to other games, not having an event on their anniversary when they're hyping up the anniversary stream is plain stupid. I don't see as a betrayal though because I'm not the drama queen you're painting me out to be. I'm not entitled, I won't throw a fit if there's not an event.
Either with, your holier than thou attitude is annoying and you've truly shown it off with this comment.
Heh. Holier than thou? I merely stated to start with that I'll be happy with whatever they give us. Free stuff is free stuff. I didn't paint you to be anything; I said we clearly play the game for different reasons. As to whether or not you are being unreasonable, I don't know. You do seem to have a "what have you done for me lately" view of their events. Is that a reasonable attitude to take? You tell me. Do they owe us events, or have we come to expect them? I told you that I share your "hope" that the event will be a big deal. I merely clarified that I'm not going to complain, moan and groan if it isn't. Are you saying you will?
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@LazyPayday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212816#Comment_2212816
I enjoy the grind, even if it frustrates me sometimes. I enjoy knowing I'm making progress within the game, and custom games often times leads to either no one trying leading to a boring match or a sweaty match leading to friends annoyed with each other. SWF is fun when I'm messing around with my friends while completing objectives and earning rewards while doing so. There are some games I play purely for the fun of it, but those games often don't have a progression system, or at least in the traditional sense.
Hrm. As I said, we play for different reasons. My Custom Games with friends are always hard fought, vicious even. We don't get upset with one another about it because we go into them knowing we are going to fight tooth and nail for every inch. I stopped caring about the Grind long ago because I have a Scrooge McDuck vault so full of swag that I can play any Build I want, using the most powerful add-on(s) every match and I would never run out. I don't consider adding more things to the vault to be "progression."
To me, progression is getting BETTER at the game. My goals now are to get good enough to pull Otz, Monto, Stalky Boi, Jund, and their like so I'm competing in the hardest matches I can get. I will most certainly get my rear kicked, but I will continue to put my head down and charge until I can compete. That is MY idea of progression. I consider the grind nothing more than the gold stars we used to get in Kindergarten.
I digress. This thread is about the upcoming event. We agree on one thing; I hope it is a grand affair. I'd love it to be big, challenging, and bring new aspects to the game. Where we disagree is that it failing to do so would be some kind of failure or betrayal. What I want and what I expect aren't the same thing. I keep my expectations reasonable and low, so I'm not let down. I'll be happy with whatever we get, and I will still have the GAME which I love to play. It is win/win either way.
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@LazyPayday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210297#Comment_2210297
Except they don't, the previous halloween event was just some usable items and offerings, no chance to get free skins. Frankly with how the game is, there's not motive to play, the reward isn't worth the time invested so I only play for dailies. I want another objective, and since games drifted from hard to earn rewards like back in the old days and more towards events, I want good events. Behavior is no longer some small indie team, they have the capability to make events and events are what are popular now. I shouldn't be expected to pay for new content if I want something more every three months.
I think you kind of missed the point of my earlier post. If you aren't enjoying the game, why are you still here? I'll be honest, I don't care about new skins. I rarely ever buy cosmetics (Krampus being my one exception). I play the game because I enjoy playing the game. The Blood Points I earn are spent on stuff, as you would expect. The stuff, however, isn't the objective/motive. It is just fuel to play more games, because I enjoy the games themselves.
To put this more in focus, my friends and I play a LOT of custom games. We enjoy doing these and we don't care about the grind. Why would we? Everything we need is unlocked and available in a the Custom Games format, and we don't need Blood Points to play. Do you see the point I'm making, the very different way you and I approach the game. I play because I enjoy playing. That is my motive. You apparently need something else to motivate you.
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@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210582#Comment_2210582
His argument is exclusively the 1v1 chase between the Spirit player and survivor. Scott isn't arguing that Spirit cannot be beaten 1v4. No need to refine anything, it should be intuitive this was about chase.
He said at the start of the video that this challenger was a spirit defender in his comments. I got massive killer main vibes from watching him get chased. That was not a good survivor player. At all. He tried all the tricks (the ones you have suggested to players to do before) and had a 100% failure rate. The survivors pathing and camera control (hence the bad pallet drops and poorly times vaults) was awful and the chase should of lasted longer (not a huge deal because it's a chase against a good spirit). Compare it to the 1v1 between Scott and Zubat years ago on spirit. I think collision wasn't removed yet and he lasted thrice the time just using tiles correctly and general mastered micro for survivor.
This looked like somebody with very little survivor experience trying to implement "counter-play" they've said works to try and sell Spirit is a balanced killer. Something many MANY killer mains here try to do.
Hrm. That was my point earlier, when I pointed out Spirit has counter play but in terms of a game, not 1v1 chase. Survivors always lose a 1v1 chase eventually. So it is clear my understanding of what people are demanding to be so-called counter play is different from how I define it. To me, it just means it is possible to beat the Spirit (even a good one). I'm not defending the Spirit; I don't play her at all. I've suggested that when not in Haunt she should be the same as my Tier-1 Myers, i.e. 105% speed. I do think she needs a minor tweak. But I strongly disagree with this notion that she has no counter play (at least as I define it).
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@Ghost_Face_Main said:
Whatever happened to the killer a majority of the community labeled as the best stealth killer? He used to be one of the top 4 killers I'd see on average, but now he's as rare as seeing Twins or Clown. Is it his weird tier list placements that effect the opinions of players?
Love the surge of Blight players though. Glad to see more of him these days.
I guess I'm getting all of yours? Feel free to take them back.
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Hrm. While I agree an decrepit Amusement Park on a pier next to a beach might make for a good map, to do it right would be a much greater endeavor than we have seen so far. Such an effort would also need to come with an appropriate Killer. One of the things I wish they would do is tap into the the imagination and energy of the community, i.e. open up the map generation options, and allow us to create some and play test them in custom games until we have worked out the spawn kinks and then submit them for consideration.
I would expect that would harness a hell of a lot of potential free building for them. It might even get them some free art as many people doing maps (like your amusement park by the sea) would probably come up with that too.
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Well let's all be honest here, the challenge is a setup. I like Jund just fine, but of course that 1v1 starting at the hatch was going to be a nightmare to counter play. :) The thing is those aren't the conditions in an actual game. If we are refining his argument to say there is zero counter play against a Star Player in a 1v1 Loop situation where the Killer starts with you already in her sights, that is a much more narrow argument than simply saying Spirit has no counter play.
The best counter play to Spirit is good evasion, i.e. stealth and attrition. This challenge end runs that option. :)
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@SirCracken said:
Had a fight with someone, who I guess was more of an acquaintance than friend, and I will likely never speak to again. I had known her long enough for us to exchange some personal information about our upbringing and living situation. All seemed to paving the way for a wholesome friendship.
But I had a game with them recently where she was farmed in my face twice. The first time I turned a blind eye and hoped their team mate wouldn't be dumb enough to do it a second time. When they did, I downed her "rescuer" and then her. She DC'ed on the spot and angrily messaged me demanding to know if she had done something to piss me off. I said that she hadn't and I was just punishing her team mate's terrible game sense.
Well, that singular down was enough for her to abscond from a conversation on steam, then discord, then back to steam again. Which finally ended with her saying that I should stop trying to help and me replying that since she was treating me like a stranger I should become one.
I'm writing this post partially because I'm still a bit sad and partially because this is the 2nd time something like this has happened with a girl I met in DBD. I want to know if the community is genuinely filled with people like this or am I just a magnet for mentally unstable women?
Hrm. I don't feel particularly qualified to offer advice on such an exchange, but I will give my two cents because you came here to vent. I also play with my friends, but we don't get upset about what happens in the game, nor would we ghost someone over a bad match. If you liked this person, know them in real life, enjoyed their conversation (and them you) I wouldn't let a damn video game torpedo a friendship. And to be perfectly frank, if a video game can undo your interactions that easy, it wasn't a friendship to begin with.
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@NotYourAverageJay said:
This lil kid just reported me cuz I killed him and let the rest live when they gave up so I felt bad but I killed that one guy because he used most of the pallets lol smh.
No, you can't be banned for doling out your generosity in unequal ways. :) Tough luck for him, but if he gave you salt for it I would write his name down. Memorize it. If you ever pull him again, do the SAME thing. It will be hilarious.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210366#Comment_2210366
Why not?? Isnt this a forum for discussion about things in dbd?? Why can i not ask other killer players what their thoughts are??? What is the crime in that?
But that isn't what you are REALLY doing. You wouldn't start by saying "I couldn't see myself needing that much help," if you weren't taking a passive aggressive shot. It makes your motives suspect. If you had just posted the question, "is Ruin, Pop, and Tinkerer a good combo," it wouldn't have had your sideways slant on it. Don't try to hustle us. You aren't really asking a question. You are making a statement, casting shade. But if you truly want an answer, go watch Jund. I believe he addresses this combo in a video.
Ruin is for early game, Pop is for mid to late, and Tinkerer is just good with anything at any time. Late game, with only a few Generators left to hunt, Tinkerer+Pop is a deadly combination. Ruin in the early game makes sure there is time to have have bled the Survivor's white before things go clutch. There, I gave you a summary, but don't insult my intelligence as to your motives.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210322#Comment_2210322
You call it what you want just an honest opinion.
I gave you my honest opinion, i.e. that what other people put in their Builds is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Why do you care? Why make this thread if you aren't "knocking them" when clearly that is exactly what you are doing. Why lie? We aren't dense. You do you; don't you have enough to worry about with your OWN builds? Why do you care what other people are doing?
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
Honestly as a killer main how much help does someone need??? I couldn't see my self needing THAT much regression help. And I have a lot of time invested into the killer side of things. Now i am not knocking anyone who uses this combo but i would just like to see thoughts on this from fellow killer players.
My thoughts are you do you. You SAY you aren't knocking anyone but let's tell the truth and shame the devil; that is exactly what you you are doing with this passive aggressive post. :) You do what you feel is right for you and let the other Killers do what they feel is right for them.
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@yaboitraderjo said:
I'm not sure if i'm oblivious to something or what but it's been about 5 games in a row that i've been straight tunneled by killers. Most between the ranks of 12-15. The common tactics are waiting for the hook cool down time and specifically ignoring those who weren't recently hooked. Normally this isn't a problem as I play all the time but there seems to be a significant increase in this manner of playing.
Not trying to start any fights here, just want to make sure if i'm imagining this or not. It's becoming quite frustrating to wait for a game just to get a killer who plays like that.
FWIW i'm not playing with any toxic builds (SWFs, DS, Flashlights, etc).
No, but I have noticed a massive drop in Survivors taking protecting hits, trading hooks, shoulder saves, and/or stealing chases. The lack of these things naturally results in the same person getting put on the hook twice in a row. More to the point, I see fewer safe rescues, the rescuer has this odd habit of vanishing like a Ninja the second they get you down. This leaves the injured Survivor the only visible target rather often.
So no, I don't see Killers really going out of their way to Tunnel more, but I do see less effort to deflect them. Killers have always gone for the easiest, most viable target. The key difference is that in the past more effort was taken to dissuade them. :) It is the job of SURVIVORS, not Killers, to protect their peers. It is in the interest of Survivors to take the actions or bring the tools required. I still don't see Borrowed Time near as often as I should. I don't get hit with DS near as often as I used to get hit with it. Apparently there is this silly protest and less people taking it because they can't do objectives in the Killer's face. Fewer people taking DS means Killers will get stunned less. Go figure.
Do you see where I'm going with all of this?
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Whatever they do, big or small, is free stuff. I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. Lower your expectations and you will be happier with whatever you get. A big, fancy event would be great, but I don't come to play because of events. I come for love of the game. I think of video games like good barbeque. The best barbeque doesn't need a lot of sauce. If you have to drown it, you have lousy cuts of meat. If you don't enjoy the base game enough to play it without being bribed, you should probably find a game you enjoy more.
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@MTK said:
I mean, for the life of me I don't understand how anyone would think that map is balanced.
Maybe the devs automatically think "its an indoors map, its killer sided so its fine" which wouldn't really surprise me
But no matter what side I play at red ranks, I find it almost impossible for survivors to lose on this map with 975 god pallets that are placed 7 meters apart from each other from one end to the next
I don't believe you. :) I'm a Red Rank Killer and I put Gideon in all the time. It took some readjustment but I'm back to liking it better than Lerys when I play Spooky Myers.
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@Itslat3ncy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209865#Comment_2209865
I'm not new I've been on this forum for over a year, just dont talk to you that much. I would understand writing the same thing over and over, but saying people are bad because they cant find the 1 in a million counterplay that she has. I've gone over all scenarios and cant figure it out.
Please refer to my posts further up in the thread. The counter play is pretty simple and direct. It just isn't the preference of most Survivors. People get into habits and don't like to play against type.
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@Blueberry said:
Obviously nothing is going to change your mind but I disagree completely.
She has lots of counter play. Most survivors are just bad and don't understand how to play against a Spirit and instead just make up excuses. Spirit actually asks more skill of the survivors than most killers. She's one of the funnest killers to face as survivor for me. Much higher level mind games going on here than against most other killers.
If she has such little counter play why do I not have the same problems facing Spirit as you? Are all the rank 1 Spirits I've faced in over 7,000 hours just coincidentally bad? Unlikely.
I agree with you (hence my earlier posts); she has counter play.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209722#Comment_2209722
It's because a lot of killers never learn their tiles. They rely too much on 1-hit down perks or bloodlust. It really starts to urk me when people complain about Rank 1 killer being so hard to play. I never have much trouble as Rank 1. I play all killers and I play a ton of survivor. I see a lot of people who will face camp the first person then say I was gen rushed. Like come on, Man. Show a little resolve in your argument. Sometimes tunneling and camping IS the best option as killer but doing it at the first down is just stupid. You might as well say, do me harder please.
I agree with you to a degree, but it isn't always wrong on the first down. I tend to do short range patrols and proxy-camp on the first down simply to test how altruistic the Survivors are as I consider that valuable information for the rest of the match. Once I know how eager they are for the save as compared to staying on mission to milk that hook, I can play more effectively. Only on the first down do I have the the leeway to really feel that out. But it is really a matter of play style I think. Face camping on the first hook it just idiotic, however, as it gives up all pressure, tests nothing, and just encourages the Survivors to bang the Generators out.
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As someone who plays a LOT of Survivor I'd like the poor performance of my FELLOW Survivors addressed. Perhaps a more involved Tutorial? Classes? Something? I think this entire survey is weighted and invalid on its face. We already have the tools we need, as Survivors, to deal with Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging in the game. What needs to be addressed is whining, self-involved teammates who don't do safe rescues, know how to milk a hook, can't be bothered to take protection hits, trade hooks, sabotage hooks, do shoulder rescues, or steal a chase. Most Survivor problems are rooted in what other Survivors do, and I would love to see that addressed somehow.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2209676#Comment_2209676
Thats why Im asking, sometimes its the right call, sometimes not. And I understood that when I started playing killer.
But there is killer that just do it all the time and Im asking why. I still not understand them. Im not blaming them, I just try to understand them.
Most likely for a couple of reasons:
- Perhaps they never learned how to Search & Destroy well, and thus feel constrained to doing it. This isn't unlike Survivors that never learn to Loop, so they only evade (or vice versa). A Killer that doesn't learn to do multiple things well, will lean into the only thing they think they can do with competence.
- The Survivors make the mistake of rewarding the tactic. Survivors who rush the hook and/or don't milk hooks for Generator progress tend to make the tactics better than they would be otherwise. Survivors that make unsafe rescues, don't take protection hits, trade hooks, don't do shoulder rescues, sabotage hooks, or steal chases shrink the scope of the Survivor options. Those options are the counter play to tunneling and camping. Most of what the Killer must do is in response to what Survivors require of them.
- And some Killers simply have a long term strategy of the 3-Generator Lock from the very start. Bear in mind a 3-Gen is a STRATEGY. Tunneling, Camping, Slugging, etc. are just tactics. However, if you are carefully and methodically going to defend a 3-Gen, you well end up camping a certain section of the map and therefore camping anyone you hook within that territory. It means, since you don't want to stray from it, that you will tunnel out of necessity to maintain what little pressure you can by keeping at least one Survivor in it and/or removing them from the game as rapidly as possible. You get the extra pressure from people who might TRY the rescues. The 3-Gen isn't an automatic win button. Good Survivors know how to avoid a 3-Generator, but they must be mindful. Killers attempting to keep that 3-Generator plan can shoot themselves in the foot because if it gets broken suddenly, they have given up a lot on a late game bet.
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@SweetTerror said:
Camping and tunneling is incredibly risky because if you go up against a good survivor team, they'll just spread out and knock out the gens while you sit there and waste time with a survivor.
I will say though that I have seen a crazy amount of tunneling as of late, far more than I usually do, and I think that all has to do with the decisive strike rework. I think many killers are expecting survivors to not have it now. But even after the rework, I still never leave home without it! LOL
Yep. If Survivors kept bringing it to the same degree as before, Killers would exercise more caution. :)