Mister_xD
Mister_xD
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i dont think this is primarily about how difficult it is to play a character well, but rather how difficult it is for a completely new player to pick this character up and understand them.
The Hillbilly for example has a very straight forward power: you got a chainsaw and people hit by it die. also you go speed with chainsaw. its not a difficult concept to wrap your mind around, hence the "Easy" rating. Though Overheat has taken a toll on that, so i would definitely agree to bump it up to "Mediocre".
Shape is definitely not a hard Killer to play, however he can be relatively confusing towards new players. Many dont quite understand what Tier 1 even is and stay in it far too long or dont understand that they can get out of it at all. Then there is the stalk limit and the time limited Tier 3, it can be a little much. Though i would agree that "Hard" is too much, he too should be bumped down to "Mediocre" in terms of difficulty.
And then there is Freddy, who, once again, is really straight forward gameplay wise, but his power is just a lot and is going to confuse a lot of new players with its mechanics. I do actually think that "Hard" is a decent rating for him mainly for that reason.
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i feel like a good way of addressing this would be to make it so when a Survivor stands still for, lets say, 10 seconds, they lose all collision with other players for as long as they dont move and 2 seconds afterwards.
That way it would be impossible to block someone in a corner indefinitely, given that either the player blocking the other person will lose collision, or the person in the corner themselves will lose collision and be able to phase through them with the 2 seconds of movement they get.
and since it forces you to stand still for a relatively lengthy periode of time i dont think it would be abusabe during chases to somehow get an upper hand.
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yeah having to go up against a bunch of stacked gameslowdown perks is hella boring.
but you know what else is super boring?
the killer not having it and all gens being completed in a matter of minutes and the game ending after maybe 3 hooks.
in the end, stacking slowdowns rn is really just an attempt by the killer to band aid fix the horrid gamedesign thats actively working against them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2863552#Comment_2863552
I think that as well, I wouldn't blame it on Boons. It's been drecreasing since SBMM
SBMM is why i left the game, Boons (and some other things) are the reason i have stayed away until now.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2858072#Comment_2858072
Do you really need a full argument to know that DH should be removed from the game or changed drastically? The reasons are obvious if you play the game.
yeah now you're just putting words in my mouth.
i never once said anything related to Dead Hard in this discussion threat, yet here you are acting like i was inherently against changing the Perk - which, just by the way, i am not. i have spoken out against Dead Hard for years now and have been advocating drastic changes to it in order to make it a more healthy addition to the game than it currently is.
i merely corrected OP on the reasons for the Ruin changes a while ago.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2858029#Comment_2858029
DH is also unhealthy for the game, it punish new killers more than veterans, with the exception of DH for distance, and yet its still here..
and because one thing is bad and unhealthy that somehow justifies another thing being bad and unhealthy?
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they changed old Ruin because it was punishing new players for being new and hardly affected experienced players. it wasnt changed because it was "overused", it was changed because it was unhealthy for the game.
also, they didnt nerf Ruin. it is arguably stronger than it has been prior to its changes - at the very least it is significantly more consistent due to it no longer being 100% reliant on RNG, nor avoidable entirely by gentapping. it also affects all users the same, no matter their skill level AND allows the Killer to directly influence its effects based on how well they play.
EDIT: typo
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i dont think people have an issue with the Boon mechanic in itself.
what we have an issue with is how utterly overpowered some Boon Perks are (like Circle of Healing) and how poorly inplemented this mechanic was (e.g. there is no risk involved with booning something, getting rid of boons takes the Killer a lot more time / ressources than it takes Survivors (as a whole team) to set them up, there is no way to reliably get rid of them, etc.).
honestly, properly nerf CoH and make it so Boons take longer to set up the more they got snuffed out (similar to Freddys wake up mechanic) and i dont think we would see many complaints over them anymore.
EDIT: repeated myself a bit and took a part out in response
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i mean...
what did you expect when they released a hit and run based Killer right after releasing a Perk that completely annihilates this playstyle?
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ive said it multiple times before and i will say it again:
there is no reason for the chat filter to be a mandatory addition.
let. us. disable. it.
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a complete rework of the Survivors main objective.
gens are boring - which sucks, cause gens are what Survivors are supposed to be doing most of the time.
this leads to a very big problem, namely the current imbalances between the two sides.
why? because, in theory, the way this games balance works is that Killers dominate chases and Survivors dominate the overall games flow - meaning Killers get to be the powerrole in chases and dominate them, while Survivors get to be the powerrole in the overall progression of the game and get to dominate that, which leads to a race between the two sides to see who can overcome the other side and finish their objective before the opposing side can finish theirs.
but since gens are unfun, the Devs shifted Survivor gameplay to be much more focussed on chases and rebalanced Killers to be more "fair" in 1v1 encounters, which strips them off their title of powerrole in chases, but at the same time they lack the possibilities of properly contesting the overall games flow (simply because its a 4v1 and the Survivors can progress 4 gens at the same time, while the Killer can only properly defend one), resulting in the game being tilted rather heavily in the Survivors favor.
so: rework gens into something fun and interactive to do and we can actually start getting Killers back into a balanced spot (yes this would also require a rework of most gen defense Perks, which are currently the band aid fix to suppress that issue).
then again, this is such a fundamental thing that i have no hopes of it ever happening outside of a Dead by Daylight 2.
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because there is a huge difference between a Killer camping a hook and a Killer defending their hook.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846869#Comment_2846869
"In other words, you gain literally nothing from faking ADS. all it gives you is something you already have without it:"
By faking ADS, The survivor will wiggle side to side anticipating a shot that does not happen. Since the survivor is not walking in a straight line, The deathslinger is catching up faster because he had no cooldown exiting in and out ADS thus maintain 110% m/s. I explained this in my opening post. You do gain something from faking ADS. You gain distance and unpredictability.
Something deathslinger lacks now a days, unpredictability.
"The counterplay to Deathslinger is to keep him at a distance and break LoS to him, because the second he is close and has LoS on you, the chase is over (considering they can hit their shot ofc)."
You realize that a killer that has 0.15 second ADS time is by far one of hardest killers to LOS. He has near infinity amount of possible shots that he can leverage. LOS merely gave very brief breathers. In fact, I would go as far to say that a big reason of why he had strong chase was in part for his inability to be LOS. You cannot cheese his old power with LOS like the other ranged killers. you had to win a bunch of 50/50 continuous coin flips in regards to predicting his shots and doing singular wiggles on either left or right side. Looping old slinger took a lot of Survivor skill. The Current one? Not so much.
By faking ADS, The survivor will wiggle side to side anticipating a shot that does not happen.
and the exact same applies when you are not faking ADS.
the fact that you could whip out your gun and shoot almost instantly meant that they had to treat you like you were in ADS at any point in time, for as long as they remained in your direct LoS.
So once again, you dont get anything from faking it, as Survivors had to treat a Deathslinger in his ADS the exact same as a Deathslinger not currently in his ADS. The punishment for running in a straight line, taking a vault or entering a pallet or doorway is the exact same in both scenarios, whether the Deathslinger had his ADS pulled up or not - they get shot and hit.
The only effect ADS had on them was to show them that you were ready to shoot them out of those places, meaning they would not take them and therefore extend the chase by making you walk up to them and hit them instead of quickly taking a shot.
the only scenario where i would even consider faking ADS would be when the Survivors are a decently long distance away from me and i want to zone them away from a specific area - in which case a slight M1 attack cooldown after dropping out of ADS is not going to affect me anyway, due to them being too far away.
thats the whole point i am trying to make here: there is no (realistic) scenario in which you would gain more from faking your ADS than by simply not doing it. therefore this nerf to faking ADS is extremely insignificant to the point where it literally wont affect the gameplay of experienced Deathslinger players at all.
You realize that a killer that has 0.15 second ADS time is by far one of hardest killers to LOS. He has near infinity amount of possible shots that he can leverage. LOS merely gave very brief breathers.
yes, that is why he was such a balanced Killer. like i said, he used to be an absolute monster in close range 1v1 chases, creating multiple lose - lose situations for Survivors and making escape pretty much impossible. Therefore he was lacking in a multitude of other aspects, namely the 1v4 game (map pressure, tracking, interactions with more than 1 survivor, ...).
and there is nothing wrong with that.
i honestly dont get why you keep bringing up new Slinger. We both agree that the TR increase and forced .4 second ADS time were horrible changes, there is really no need for that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845054#Comment_2845054
"correct. that is why you dont just blindly shoot at people out in the open. as i said before, you want to shoot them when they are in places or scenarios where they can not do this exact thing."
There is never point where the survivor cannot do this which is the problem. As I said, his harpoon hitbox was not designed with that gameplay in mind.
"it is a similar story with pallets or doorways, even though they dont animation lock themselves there. the second they enter a doorway or pallet is when you want to shoot them, because its an enclosed space where wiggeling to the left or right is basically impossible,"
This I will disagree with on multiple levels. I am going say that. if you approaching a doorway, 9/10, a pre-changed deathslinger would just shoot at doorways expecting you to try to drop safe pallets for shift+w(Like shack). The reason why most slingers shoot is partly due to latency because killers see survivor actions late and the killer player did not want to be late where the survivor drops pallet with chain attached to them on other side of the pallet.
What you are describing is what I refer to as ranged bottle-necking. It is a form of zoning. Many killers utilize this such as pyramid head with POTD, Demo shred, Nemesis with dragging tech, Artist crows, Huntress hatchets etc. Those other killer are successful with this strategy because their attacks largely cover entire doorway/pallet area when utilized correctly. Deathslinger's harpoon is so thin that I have in the past dodge/juked his gun within doorway. I was greeding pallets heavily on occassion because sometimes I would not get hit by his low TR so I would be healthy in an opening chase and you as deathslinger main must know that shooting survivors during animation lock is free injure because the deathslinger does not need confirm the m1 hit when a survivor is healthy.
In the current iteration of deathslinger, his reduced ADS often makes it that he does not even get shot off in time in these pallet situations so there is barely any requirement to make predictions on his gun right now. I disagree that this gameplay is a free hit for deathslinger.
In term of windows, I would say that he is stronger at window simply because window vaulting is forced animation lock compare to running in a pallet doorway. In old iteration, he never really needed to shot because he could cancel out of his gun. In new iteration, he can hold his gun and walk towards the window+survivor, sometimes force bodyblock the window and if the survivor went to far away from it, he could cancel into m1 hit but largely speaking, he is mostly forced to take shots. point-blank shots are relatively easy in my opinion(No offense to huntress mains that miss point-blank hatchets). I would agree that he largely is not affected by windows post-change. At the same time, I feel like there is more time-sink to win windows with deathslinger than in the past which I would count as negative.
i am going to completely ignore everything you say about the forced .4 seconds of ADS time from here on out.
it is not part of this discussion and i have stated that, as well as my stance on it, multiple times now. if you keep ignoring that, i cant help it.
when i talk about Deathslinger not being any weaker with this nerf, i am refering to old Deathslinger who ONLY received this specific nerf this is about and NOT the 32m TR increase or the forced .4 seconds of ADS time before being able to shoot (he also has none of the compensation buffs they gave him - not that those mattered anyway, but im gonna mention this just in case).
There is never point where the survivor cannot do this which is the problem. As I said, his harpoon hitbox was not designed with that gameplay in mind.
that is, simply put, not correct. all you have to do in tight corridors is to aim down the middle of them and the Survivor will not have the ability to dodge to the left or the right, as their own hitbox is 50% (or more) of the available space, meaning a harpoon passing through the exact middle is always going to collide with it.
in other words, if a Survivor is running through a pallet and you timed your shot right, as well as aimed precisely down the middle of the available space (as well as slightly down, so they cant duck under it) they are running through, it is impossible for the Survivor to dodge the shot.
in those enclosed spaces dodgeing to the left or right is not an option. There was however one option they did have: fake the doorway and not take it / delay entering it. If they run towards a doorway and then do a quick 90° turn (or 180° turn if you approached from the side) away from it right before they would enter, its entirely possible the Deathslinger is gonna whiff the shot - but that doesnt mean you juked the shot in the doorway, because you never entered it in the first place. the same applies when the Deathslinger either misaimed and shot to the far left or right of the doorway and you dodged to the other side or when the Deathslinger mistimed the shot and hit you after you already ran through the doorway and had time to drop the pallet or quickly dodge to the left or right - those scenarios are the Deathslinger making a mistake, not you outplaying them.
and you might say something along the lines of "you see, THIS is where dropping your ADS and going for an M1 is the correct play!" here - to which i respond: no. it still is not - because you should have never entered your ADS in the first place.
you made a whole point in your comment comparing his fake out ability to many other Killers:
What you are describing is what I refer to as ranged bottle-necking. It is a form of zoning. Many killers utilize this such as pyramid head with POTD, Demo shred, Nemesis with dragging tech, Artist crows, Huntress hatchets etc.
but here is the very big difference between those Killers and Deathslinger - and also one of the main reasons why i keep calling ADS faking a bad thing:
Deathslinger does not need to enter his ADS to zone Survivors out. The fact that he could take aim and shoot within like .1 seconds meant that the only time you would ever want to enter the ADS state was when you were actively taking a shot. Deathslinger doesnt zone people away from windows by faking ADS - he does so simply by them entering your LoS. A Survivor inside your direct LoS knows to never take a window, otherwise they get shot (same for running through narrow corridors (e.g. pallets or doorways)) - Survivors in this scenario have already lost. The counterplay to Deathslinger is to keep him at a distance and break LoS to him, because the second he is close and has LoS on you, the chase is over (considering they can hit their shot ofc).
In other words, you gain literally nothing from faking ADS. all it gives you is something you already have without it: they cant take the vault or go through the palletwithout getting shot out of them - which was already the case due to the fact that you could enter ADS and shoot them so quickly.
Deathslinger was a character who could zone people out without having to fake his power to do so. That was one of the big reasons why he was such a strong chase Killer, because he forced Survivors into lose - lose situations all the time simply by existing (and i make it sound like that was a negative thing here, when it really wasnt. He had a multitude of downsides attached to his kit that balanced this fact out - but since this is entirely chase focussed they wont come up).
all faking your ADS does in those scenarios is dropping your movementspeed further down. thats why good Deathslingers didnt fake their ADS - because they knew that they achieved the exact same effect that faking ADS had without doing it anyway, its was just pointless.
in a best case scenario it did nothing, in a worst case scenario it cost you free hits.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843467#Comment_2843467
I do not think you understand why deathslinger player's was faking shots in first place. His harpoon has super tiny hitbox. He has 1 shot and when he misses his 1 shot, he has to reload. Survivor that wiggle erratically are extremely difficult to land shots on.
The drawback of wiggling for survivors was that survivors are not moving in perfectly straight-line therefore they're making less distance overall where as deathslinger canceling his rapidly still moves at 110% for most of the time. They described this as lose-lose situation for the survivor. I would describe this as risk vs reward situation. The survivor is mitigating risk of making his gun harder to hit but losing out of the reward of maximizing the distance.
With current version of deathslinger, Survivors can endless wiggle erratically and the deathslinger gains no distance because he is forced to commit to staying in scope from cooldowns+movement speed slowdowns. As survivor naturally gain distance even from moving erratically, It eventually allows the survivor to use objects to LOS block the deathslinger at which point deathslinger is unable to shoot.
I would not say that his skill floor changed. His gun was never designed around survivors wiggling that much in the open. The shots are harder to land than any normal fps game. many of pallet loops that have tiny holes that he could fire through are now impossible to fire through because his ADS is too slow and the survivor can easily avoid the little gaps in loops that he can fire through. The high wall loops are worse for him in regards to survivor that loop more tightly around them making it more difficult to use his gun from constant LOS block as they turn around corner. The loss of fast ADS is destroying his ability to land shots that he could previously make. The result of his power-level being reduced is loss of skill-ceiling being lowered because trick shots are not possible.
5 years ago, I want to say around patch 1.5.0, There was a patch that reduced Huntress hatchet hit box to better match the size of hatchets and to improve latency hatchet hits. The reduction of hatchet hit boxes was quickly reverted because it destroyed huntress ability to land hatchets from a distance. Current deathslinger is literally in a worse state than reduced hitbox huntress 5 years ago. He is 1 shot tiny hitbox huntress with 32 meter TR.
He desperate needs revert on his changes. His changes are about as bad as Huntress hatchet hitbox changes years ago.
i mained this Killer from his release up to the point i quit this game.
Trust me, i know exactly what i am talking about when it comes to Deathslinger.
His harpoon has super tiny hitbox. He has 1 shot and when he misses his 1 shot, he has to reload. Survivor that wiggle erratically are extremely difficult to land shots on.
correct. that is why you dont just blindly shoot at people out in the open. as i said before, you want to shoot them when they are in places or scenarios where they can not do this exact thing.
In other words, them going for a window vault is significantly more beneficial to you than when you zone them away from the window, because they lock themselves into an animation that you can very easily shoot them out of as Slinger and get a free hit from - if you zone them away however, you enter exactly the scenario you were describing where your gun gets unreliable and you gotta 4.4 m/s your way over to them to M1 them normally, which is a huge time loss in comparison.
it is a similar story with pallets or doorways, even though they dont animation lock themselves there. the second they enter a doorway or pallet is when you want to shoot them, because its an enclosed space where wiggeling to the left or right is basically impossible, so, if you time your shot correctly, its another free hit for you. Once again, zoning them away from the pallet means they run out in the open and we return to your scenario.
in other words, faking your power was the most ineffective way you could have played this character. adding a slight attack cooldown after dropping ADS did absolutely nothing to him in terms of balance other than raising the skill floor by making it harder for people who have absolutely no experience with the character, who dont know how to quickscope properly, cant judge the maximum range or predict Survivor movement and compare that to your projectile travel time to know where to shoot, to so well in chases with him. I wouldnt even consider it a nerf to be honest, thats how insignificant of a change this was.
and then you're going on about the other nerfs he received (forced .4 second ADS time + TR increase), all of which are not at all part of this debate. This is soley about the M1 attack cooldown after dropping out of ADS without taking a shot - which i stated literally in the first sentence of the comment you are commentin on.
i have never once tried defending any of those. in fact, i have openly disagreed with those nerfs from the very day they released and have been asking for a revert of them ever since.
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@MilManson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843691#Comment_2843691
Now say that it doesn’t affect his gameplay on a map like the game or any map with endless loops.
With the old ADS you could quickfire on a loop and hit but now by the time the gun is up the survivor has already crouched.
it doesnt, because you are refering to a completely different nerf than i am.
what you are talking about is the forced .4 seconds of ADS time prior to taking a shot.
what i am talking about is the slight M1 attack cooldown after dropping out of ADS without taking a shot.
i literally said in my very first sentence that those nerfs are not what im talking about.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843691#Comment_2843691
You're making this seem way more complex than it actually is. The killer, who didn't need nerfing and was fine as is, got nerfed. I'm not entitled for not playing him anymore, because compared to his old self, he sucks imo. It's like supposed Hillbilly mains who said "He's no different after the nerf. Takes more skill." I've heard it all before. It's just a weak justification of nerfing killers, which is all the justification there is really. The fact still remains that when you put survivors and killers of equal skill against each other, the survivors should always win. And nerfs like this cement that status quo.
have you not read the very first sentence i wrote?
you are, once again, putting words in my mouth i literally never said. i am NOT defending his nerfs in the slightest, what i am saying is that an attack cooldown after dropping ADS is such an insugnificant thing that it literally does not impact the gameplay of any decent Deathslinger player at all.
its not even a nerf! again: the only Deathslinger players who used to fake their ADS to zone people out were playing the Killer wrong in the first place.
YOU are the one making things needlessly complicated here because you refuse to actually read my comments but are still dead set on disagreeing with me.
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"habe ich" also got censored the last time i checked.
their chat bot utterly breaks the second you start having any conversation that is not in english.
so once again i have to question why they had to make it a mandatory feature without allowing us to deactivate it manually ;-;
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2840677#Comment_2840677
Hackers, I understand.
I don't think it's MMR.
MMR is something that feels like a forum/streamer thing - as it definitely means that veteran players are going to have a somewhat ossified meta and be playing against opponents less varied than they are used to, which places pressure on them to play sweaty. But...that's high MMR in every game, and under ranks - while the vets and the pros had a blast, it also meant that newer or more intermediate players got destroyed.
Right now, Matchmaking Failed errors aside, I'm finding that the general quality of my matches has improved substantially. Before SBMM, I'd say maybe 1/3 of my games felt decently matched. Now it's...maybe 3/5? Not perfect, but certainly better.
i mean, you're free to have whatever opinion on MMR you want, but the fact that ever since they released the MMR system DbD has seen nothing but red numbers (in terms of playerbase) does say otherwise.
its definitely not just MMR (its a combination of multiple things), but the fact that the ever lasting decline of this playerbase started exactly when they introduced MMR and has not recovered yet does suggest it plays a rather big role in it.
i can tell you one thing for sure:
the reason i quit this game is the MMR system. and the following patches and problems have made very sure that i stayed away from it.
and i will not be returning, unless they either admit defeat and permanently disable the MMR system again, or at the very least give me the option to opt out of it (e.g. a Casual / Competetive mode).
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843467#Comment_2843467
Every ranged killer can zone you out with their power. There was nothing wrong with how he was. He actually needed buffs. The nerf absolutely did something to good Deathslinger players. I considered myself one of them before the nerf. Got downs so fast, I started running Dying Light for goodness sake. All this nerf did was say "screw you" to people who played this killer, which pushed many people like myself away from ever playing him again, and discouraged new players from even buying him because they've seen and heard that he's a joke.
yeah i feel the need to remind you that this is soley about the nerf that added a slight delay to M1 attacks after dropping out of you ADS and NOT about the increased TR or the forced .4 seconds of ADS time prior to taking a shot - i fully agree that those were complete BS and need to be reverted ASAP.
Deathslingers faking their power over and over to zone Survivors away from things were neither playing the Killer well, nor were they a common sight.
If you considered yourself a good Deathslinger player you will have to agree that a zoning Deathslinger was about the least effective way you could have played him back in the day because of two main reasons:
- you could just, you know, shoot them instead of faking it.
- continuously faking your power to zone them awayy from pallets / windows means they run out in the open - which is exactly where you dont want them to be. you WANTED them to go for vaults or pallets, because they would either lock themselves in an animation, or ran through a tight corridor / doorway that made it very easy to shoot them out of - while hitting someone in the open field was significantly harder to pull off.
in addition you will have come to the conclusion at some point that you actually didnt need to enter ADS to zone people out, given that you could just enter your ADS and shoot in ~.1 seconds, meaning that faking your power was utterly useless to begin with, as it had literally no positive effect on you and you even warn Survivors to not be doing what you actually want them to do.
In other words, a Deathslinger repeatedly faking out his power to zone people away until they were in M1 range got downs significantly slower than a Deathslinger that just went for the shots (and hit). so your whole point of bringing in Dying Light (terrible Perk btw) makes no sense either.
This nerf has had absolutely no effect on players who were actually good with this Killer. All it did was raising his skill floor a little by making chases less cheesable for inexperienced Deathslinger players.
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this discussion breaks apart on the mere question of what camping even is.
since there is no clear definition to it, the opinions on what would be considered a camp and what not widely part in the community.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2841813#Comment_2841813
I didn't think the cooldown was necessary either. It's not like old Pyramid Head where that was a guaranteed health state, because Deathslinger is special in that he can land a good shot on you, but not get a down from it.
not necessary, but there was nothing wrong with that nerf either.
having a Killer that can slowly but surely zone a Survivor out with their power (without putting any effort into it either) is honestly just bad character design - and yes, if you just continuously force them away from any possible vault / pallet by preaiming it, you will get a guaranteed hit eventually, its just as much of a lose - lose situation as with old PH, just less instant. Its boring, its ineffective and there is honestly not much of a reason to insist on it existing IMO.
not to mention that this nerf did literally nothing to good Deathslinger players, considering that you never wanted to fake your power to zone people out with it anyway - you just shot them instead.
so all that really did was raise the skill floor of him a bit, which i dont necessarily mind.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Slinger is so rare now and he is not threat anymore. He should get buffs but BHVR will look his stats and then they will say "Yeah, Slinger is fine. He has +50% rates."
the funny thing is, he had a perfect 50% kill / escape rate BEFORE his nerf as well! even according to BHVRs own stats he was a perfectly balanced Killer.
there was literally no reason to nerf him other than holding the hand of players who refused to learn his counterplay.
the only change he got i agree with is the attack cooldown after dropping ADS - faking your power over and over to zone people away and into M1 range is boring and very sluggish for everyone involved - so i think its especially hilarious to see how the rest of his nerfs made it so you have to play him this way now.
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9.
my DbD consumption has dropped pretty steadily over time.
when i was new i played this game daily and for hours at a time. There was always something new to learn and improve in, so i got hooked (pun intended) and really enjoyed watching myself grow.
at one point i hit a roadblock: the poor balance of this game. however, i was enthusiastic and kept going, improving more and grinding towards my final goal of having all Killers P3 with all Perks.
this roadblock however stayed with me ever since. yes they have made improvements to fight it in the past and i was very grateful for those, but somehow the imbalances never stopped (it was much later that i realized why). However, i started closing in on the skill ceiling of the game (im not saying i hit it and am now perfect at everything - that would be a blatant lie - but i learned less and less and the new things i did discover didnt help massively anymore. its the super small stuff, like saving .5 seconds by lunging when dropping).
Ive gotten to the point where i was very good at this game - after almost 5.000 hours that is to be expected after all. However, now more than ever is when i felt that roadblock of imbalance hit. Because i now no longer had the feeling that things were going wrong due to my own skill lacking or me making wrong decisions, but rather because the game is just extremely unfair to you at times. This is where i started being very frustrated with DbD and at this point i was really only playing to earn BP and spend them on my Killers to max them out and achieve that goal, i was in it for the grind alone.
When Deathslinger dropped that changed a bit again - i finally found a character who i enjoyed again, someone with a completely new skillset and gameplay and after not too long i was maining him. I almost exclusively played this character, going through the very journed i went through with the game itself back in the day. I was actually enjoying my time with DbD again (ive only ever had this with two other characters in this game - Trapper and Doctor, my first two mains). But just like before, i hit that point in time where i felt like i had pretty much mastered that character. Nevertheless, i kept playing him alost exclusively because i still really liked his fast paced, action filled gameplay that rewarded you for good reaction times and accuracy - he was still challenging but fun to play.
However, this didnt last. The Devs were well on their way of pushing the MMR system at that point and from all the test phases of said system i noticed one thing more and more: the imbalances. the original big roadblock in my way to having fun in DbD - because the more "balanced" your opponents become, the more obvious and in your face all the imbalances of this game become too. I spoke out against it numerous times - heck i remember their last big MMR test run where i literally quit and went on a multiple week long break from this game on day 2 of the test week out of pure frustration (i even made a pretty long post about it here, which, to this day, i see as my final goodbye to DbD and the explanation to why i finally did quit - even if some of the brought points ended up being outdated).
So when MMR fully dropped, i have had enough. ive only been in for the grind anyway at this point in time and the amount of frustration i had to power through was in no way worth the reward of having all Killers P3 with all Perks anymore, so i quit.
i've been hovering the forums ever since (with decreasing activity) and cant say that the changes the Devs have made since then did a good job at bringing me back - in fact, they just pushed me further away from the game. The closest ive gotten to returning was in McLeans final update (forgot which number that was) after they released Part 1 - all of which sounded amazing to me! and then Part 2 came in and completely ruined this update for me again, due to the introduction of Boon Totems, as well as the, and i stand by this up to this day and probaply the day that i leave my final comment on this forum and waste my final thought on DbD, completely unnecessary, unfair and infuriatingly stupid Deathslinger gutting.
its a shame, because up to this day i think of DbD as a great concept of a game, but the way it has been mishandled over the years has finally taken its toll and driven me away from it, and, as it stands right now, for good.
when i quit i started thinking a lot about this game, its problems and the roots of these issues and came to the conclusion that this game is fundamentally flawed in the way it has been build from the very start. All the changes that imrpoved the game ended up not actually addressing the actual problem and instead created a band aid fix to distract from it. thing is, you dont heal a flesh wound by putting a couple of band aids on it, so in the long run those just didnt work out.
I am at a point where i think the only way where these can be addressed was by BHVR creating a Dead by Daylight 2 where they fundamentally rework the game and the way it works.
its sad that im so pessimistic over this game after so many years, but i cant help it. the last but of hope i had was that "the imbalances wont matter that much, as this is but a casual party game", which got snuffed out when the Devs decided to push a competetive matchmaking system without realizing how incompatable such a system really is for a game like this. thats like implementing a competetive MMR system into Mario Party, it simply doesnt work - and we're experiencing just that right now.
and funnily enough, at least for long time players who are skilled at this game, the MMR system being completely dysfunctional is probaply the best case scenario. i guarantee you, had that system actually worked a LOT more people would have quit the game by now, simply due to how insufferable "high level DbD" actually is.
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i feel like the main reason they did this is so Impossible Skillcheck Doctor wont absolutely stomp new players, as this Perk in combination with that Killer and build could make it literally impossible for them to finish generators.
maybe we could make it so a generator this Perk got triggered on goes into a cooldown of, lets say 30 seconds, during which time Merciless Storm wont reactivate on it. that would allow it to reactivate on highly contested gens the Killer is trying to keep under lockdown, while it would allow newer players to finish the generators without instantly reactivating the Perk and getting screwed over again.
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considering that the Pig is literally AFKing in this scenario, its probaply already bannable.
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@CryptFriend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836842#Comment_2836842
Why in HFIL would you let them go down in the same corner? If it looks like they're trying to pull shenanigans, and it will be fairly obvious if they're trying this, then they can be slugged while you go find someone else. And if they choose to bleed out for the rest of the match, then that's their own stupid choice.
Unbreakable means they get up once, then they've wasted it on a meme, and there's no reasonable way that a No Mither player makes it into a dead zone if they aren't already sitting in it.
Also, you're using a coordinated 4stack bully squad looking to stall out the game for a meme as your primary example. The chances of running into idiots like this is thankfully low.
6/10 on your worst-case-scenario example. Good idea, but has too many assumptions of incompetence and moving parts to be a standard situation.
Maybe I'm just being an elitist though. I remember what it was like to play with hooks that would be broken forever when sabotaged--only losing hooks when you kill a survivor is a cake walk in comparison.
you entirely missed the points i was making though.
"why would i let them go down in that corner?" funnily enough, i already answered that in my first comment - because its not my decision where chases go. i can play around the tile we are on and try to zone you away, but if all they do is Sprintburst towards this corner and hold W until they are there, i wont do anything against that. so whats your suggestion here, just immediately drop every chase that goes in that direction and never down anyone?
"just bleed them out!" / "those perks wont win them the game" - you see, that IS the issue here: they have lost, but i cant actually end the game and move on as i should be able to. i am forced to sit there, waiting for them to slowly bleed out without getting any points for it either. its just unnecessary to have that.
"it doesnt happen often" - you know whats another thing that doesnt happen often? exploit abusers / cheaters. does that make those okay, as you imply it does with this scenario? just because something doesnt happen a lot does not mean it was okay, the fact that it is a possibility itself is proof of poor game design and should be addressed.
and no, you're not being an elitist here. I was around when Iron Grasp was the number 1 Killer meta Perk in the game, i have experienced those sabotage plays myself plenty (on the receiving end) - but just because we've had it worse in the past doesnt mean we shouldnt try to improve the game today.
hooks being permanently destroyed after a sacrifice is nothing but an extremely outdated remainder of those days and there is not much of a reason to keep it in the game.
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@CryptFriend said:
People do call for basement to be reworked, actually.
Opinion: If you can't manage hook loss, it's a you problem, and not a game problem.
Hooks getting destroyed upon sacrifice is a mechanic designed to make killers put thought into where and when they sacrifice survivors.
Is it outdated? I doubt it.
okay, ill play devils advocate here:
what if a 4 man SWF searches out a corner of a map where there is only one, maybe two available hooks in and then purposely all go down in that one corner? after one, max two sacrifices they have forced a hook deadzone uppon the Killer who is now forced to down them and slowly bleed them out. now introduce Perks such as No Mither or Unbreakable and we got ourselves a game that is very needlessly stretched out, with both sides essentially dying from boredom.
and thats not because the killer had "poor ressource management".
fact is, the Killer is not the one deciding where a chase goes, thats ultimately the Survivors decision. So if they always run off into the same corner (or upper floor of a main building such as the Thompson House), there isnt a whole lot the Killer can do about it.
is that really a healthy mechanic to have in your game? i doubt it.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836780#Comment_2836780
I saw the unique icon and I was like "huh, wonder what that's about"
Then I saw it 😔
Feelsbadman.
yeah, i heard about it when it originally happened, but i didnt know about the icon change, so i curiously clicked on their profile before reading the name...
i instantly knew what was up the second i did read it... and seeing the comment wall made me really sad.
He was a great asset to this community and left us way too early. It always hits the wrong people...
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836713#Comment_2836713
I just figured out why.
I've been struck in the feels really badly holy crap.
same.
i wanted to say something on his profile, but i couldnt find the right words and now i just feel sad...
god, why does life have to be so unfair sometimes? :(
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remove the roar and overheat.
the roar has nerfed Hillbilly around loops with poor visibility (because it tells survivors exactly when he starts sharging) and its very annoying having to listen to it and overheat is a stupid mechanic that actively punishes you for using your power (i dont care if its "barely noticable" or not, it has very efficiently sucked all the fun out of this character and is quite honestly just unhealthy).
and make his Add Ons a bit more viable - however, dont make them as strong as they used to be with old Billy (a 26% charge time decrease on a common Add On was completely busted and we really shouldnt go back to that). Though this point im not too fixated on - old basekit billy was perfectly fine by himself, i'd be happy if they just restored that.
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its nothing uncommon.
thats why, unless its blatantly obvious, BHVR should not be banning players based on soley one sides perspective on the matter - if they do act soley on reports (even with video evidence), innocent players will be caught in the crossfire - especially in case of cheats that are invisible to the opposing side (such as wallhacks).
If they truly want to address the cheating issue, they need to upgrade their anti cheat system to be able to detect more third party software that is impacting the game in favor of the cheater.
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they are essentially exploiting poor gamedesign and AFKing.
I dont know if they can be banned for the act of bodyblocking a box like this, but you might be able to report them for AFKing, since they essentially refuse to participate in a normal trial.
funnily enough, if the Devs were to just finally make it so the key for your Reverse Beartrap is guaranteed to be in the third box you check (and the third box only), that would not only solve the huge inconsistency problem with the Pigs power, but it would also entirely get rid of an exploit like this.
But that wouldnt be fun for Survivors i guess :) (official answer on why the boxes are entirely RNG btw)
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2830841#Comment_2830841
Is think a good temporary solution would be to make him go at 4,4 m/s when he aims, and make his ADS speed not as before, but a bit faster, or as before but with a big cooldown. Right now it's really rough, if you miss it's a giant shift W
a good final solution would be to just revert the TR increase and forced ADS time prior to a shot.
both of these were fine, there was absolutely no need to nerf them in the first place.
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these changes didnt just nerf Deathslinger.
they effectively removed the Deathslinger from the Deathslinger.
Now he is but a worse Huntress, he no longer has an identity other than that.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829370#Comment_2829370
You have to remember people are still freaking out about having to solve THE BOX so I don't think the devs wanted to much emphases on a killers built in secondary objective.
you're probaply right with that.
but i dont agree with designing a character entirely around the lowest possible level of play. After all, those people will learn and improve against this Killer in the future - but this wont apply to the Killer themselves. Sadako just wont see play in higher levels because of how inefficient and straight forward (easy to understand, therefore easy to play & counterplay) her power is.
That i think is the biggest shame.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2829304#Comment_2829304
To b fair being able to just kill someone is a huge advantage so I understand why they are afraid to keep it low. Imagine if you could get a survivor to full condemned in like 3 minutes it would be like og moris all over again.
it is a very strong effect.
however, the Survivors can get rid of it relatively easily by taking a tape and inserting it in a new TV again.
If they were to make a buff to this effect that, lets say, doubles the amount of condemnation given to each individual Survivor via a teleport, the result of that wouldnt be a bunch of Survivors being fully condemned after just a few minutes into the trial, but rather them slowing down more on gens to focus more on their newly added secondary objective of inserting tapes.
i can understand harsh activation requirements being in place when the effect is hard for Survivors to remove again (such as tormented from Pyramid Head), but given how easy it is to remove a big chunk of condemnation, i think its a bit over the top.
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i like the changes she got, but i doubt they are going to make her much more viable.
her chase is still very weak and while its nice to be able to maintain the flickering state more consistently throughout it, it is still a very ineffective chasing tool (mostly due to how unreliable and inconsistent it is).
and the condemnation buffs she got are decent, but wont really change a lot i fear.
after all, the main way you got condemned as a Survivor was by her teleporting to you, not by holding a tape. So buffing the amount of condemnation you receive while holding a tape wont really affect your gameplay a lot (if at all). removing one less stack of condemned on you by inserting her tape to your TV is a good change, but i doubt people will have to do this in their trials more than once, MAYBE twice.
they are a step in the right direction and they will undoubtedly make her better than she was before, but i very highly doubt they are going to make her much more viable.
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they need to either add an activation requirement to it (one that survivors actually need to do something to get) or a downside that makes the Perk a double edged sword when they use it instead of just a free, all upsides Perk.
every other Exhaustion Perk in the game falls under one of these two cathegories - except for DH, which is the reason it outclasses them all by such a wide margin.
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its because of how the Emblems are earned.
for Survivors, each of the 4 Emblems represents one key objective. Lightbringer is for doing gens, Unbroken is for making it out alive, Benevolent is for helping teammates and Evader is for interactions with the Killer.
In other words, you can only really progress one of them at a time, as they are all tied to a different objective. (it is similar in terms of BP cathegories - one for doing gens, one for escaping, one for helping teammates and one for interacting with the Killer).
for Killer however, this is not the case. The 4 Killer Emblems (and BP cathegories) are all centered around one single objective: killing the Survivors. They all just represent a different step / approach towards it. Gatekeeper is for keeping them in the trial with you, Devout is for killing them, Malicious is for hooking and injuring them a lot and Chaser is for chases. The BP cathegories reward you for chasing, injuring them / breaking their stuff, hooking / sacrificing them and using your power to catch them.
In other words, you passively progress all 4 while pursuing your one objective, which is why its easier for the Killer player to max out on BP / Emblems than it is for each individual Survivor player.
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two things come to mind immediately:
1) do not try to loop a single structure, there is about a 95% chance Bamboozle is in play to instantly eliminate it.
2) do NOT get found first. if someone is getting camped, that person wont be me!
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828596#Comment_2828596
Nah, this is 100% bait, there is an animation if you try to crawl out with an active trap. This guy probably had someone who was downed with an inactive trap and assumed it would still pop. Inactive traps dont pop when trying to escape. Active traps pop regardless of the situation.
The funniest one IMO is if you try to dead hard past the point(which is about half-way through the gate).
actually there is one situation that allows you to escape through the exit gate with an active trap - its when the killer carries you past the trap trigger point and then drops you.
they did that so Killers couldnt just down you, pick you up and then execute you in a matter of seconds by forcing you through the trigger zone to pop your head and forgoing the process of hooking you.
it is a very specific scenario though and i doubt you'll ever see it play out in an actual game.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2828380#Comment_2828380
A guy named Choy made a video talking about the Epic games fiasco where he spoke to someone who knows a lot about the 'dbd cheating scene' and they were told that many people abused the hell out of it being free to make hundreds of accounts easily with scripts and such
Meaning people who are determined to cheat could potentially have hundreds of accounts
and knowing how incredibly fast, easy and efficient our reporting system is, we are never going to get rid of them. ever.
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please stop, he is already dead.
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Deathslinger and Hillbilly prior to their incredibly unnecessary nerfs.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I'd argue that it was in a worse spot post-ruin change and pre-toolbox change, as well as just 2018 and before, but also I can't really say that the game is all that enjoyable at current. SBMM fundamentally fails at judging skill, people have decided that pure efficiency is the way to go, and overall it's just not a good time.
I never thought I'd say this, but I actually miss Bully Squads over Death Squads.
the thing with bully squads was that you at least got to have a game.
was it fun? hell no. but most of these bully squads prioritized bullying the Killer over completing their objective and got overconfident very easily, which could lead to them failing and dying relatively easily.
nowadays you enter your first chase and by the time you hook them 3 gens popped and the game is pretty much over.
when i first joined DbD i usually planned for a roughly 20 to 30 minute long match when joining a lobby.
that went down to 15 to 20 minutes and by the time i quit i didnt expect my matches to last any longer than 10 to 15 minutes - and 15 would be considered a long match by me.
its weird, because the game was so much less balanced back in the day, but i enjoyed my games as Killer significantly more back then than i did by the time SBMM dropped (which was the final straw for me and the time i quit).
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- permanently disable MMR / give us the option to opt out of it (e.g. by having a casual mode without MMR and a competetive mode with it)
- revert the Deathslinger gutting. Im refering to the TR increase to 32m and the forced .4 seconds of ADS time before being able to shoot here. they can revert all the "buffs" he got in compensation (chain break stun time reduced to 3 seconds and slightly increased movementspeed while ADS) for all i care, those are barely noticable and dont help him anyway.
this wont be enough to make me happy with this game, but i would probaply reinstall it and play a couple of games every now and then.
honestly, this game has so many and so fundamental issues right now that i mostly gave up on it ever being in a good spot. At this point with the amount of band aid fixes the game received over the years, it'd be easier if they just made a Dead by Daylight 2, fixed the core issues there and then be able to start fresh from a good basis.
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you dont need a lot of time to be able to tell that a Killer that has literally nothing in chases (other than random phasing they have no control over which is purely decided by RNG) isnt going to perform well.
she has great map pressure, but, much like Legion, that doesnt really matter when you cant down people.
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@AngyKiller said:
I'm going to try to win, because that's literally the goal of the game; Survivors try exiting, I try killing them.
It's not my fault that 99% of my opponents pitch a major baby-fit and scream I need to 'stop sweating' because they're angry they lost. Or they think they deserve the hatch for <vague reason>. 🤷♂️
there is a big difference between playing to win and sweating you know.
no one is saying you shouldnt be playing with the goal of winning, its about how you try to achieve those outcomes.
what OP essentially says is, that maybe you should not go and genrush the Killer and then instantly leave after just 5 or so minutes and that maybe you shouldnt hardtunnel the first Survivor you see out of the game and then slug for the 4k - because those are extremely unfun for everyone involved and i genuinely have to question why you even play the game when you do this.
and no, you dont need to do any of those to be able to win.
this game would be an overall much more enjoyable place for everyone if people would stop doing these kind of things.
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Claudette, because she had access to selfcare (and you wont believe me here, but that was actually an amazing perk once!).
i still main her, because i kind of dont see the point in putting millions uppon millions of Blood Points into reskins of the exact same character.