M1MASTER
M1MASTER
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316604#Comment_2316604
You are used to this version if you didn't play him before, that's why you don't understand. I played old basekit Billy and also don't understand. He isn't any different regarding his basekit, and like you said, you rarely overheat when playing serious.
People relied on old Crack Billy and Instasaw Billy. They lost those Add-ons and apparently Billy is now ruined because of it.
No, people relied on not having to go against bad survivors to actually win with him. Even old base kit Billy got bullied against survivors who use more than 1 brain cell and know how to play against him.
There are just many killers who are easier and better nowadays, so why bother with Billy? His animations are also bugged, but apparently we don't take those into account.
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@BlackRabies said:
Hill Billy, I've never really played him before his rework, but have played him after the rework and he's a lot of fun imo. I still don't understand why so many saying he's a lot worse than before. Only time I overheat is when I intentionally spam his chainsaw, and few of his add ons are trash.
The biggest problem of the overheat comes from its poor interaction with the Engravings and steering add-ons which naturally tend to let you gain more heat (try playing double Engravings for example and tell me overheat doesn't matter).
Also, good survivors are not gonna get chainsawed/curved for free on your first try unless they really misplay or you catch them in a dead zone.
It's just a ######### mechanic that has no reason to exist.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2311729#Comment_2311729
I don’t know how people would think the game was better back then.
As survivor it was like Nurse, Nurse, Nurse, Instasaw Billy, Nurse, Nurse, Nurse, Nurse with Ebony Mori, etc.
As killer it was “lose entire perk slot to bamboozle every game” or have fun running the infinites.
Eh, variety isn't so much better these days with how many killers there are now.
It's pretty much only Spirit, Nurse, Bubba, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, 180 flick Blights, Huntress.
I don't know about you but i'd much rather go against 10 insta saw Billys in a row than a single Stridor Spirit.
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Biggest things that contributed to make the game more boring for me are the Billy nerf, the reworked maps, and the new survivor animations.
The game just isn't the same without old Billy around and nobody wanting to play him anymore, a lot of the new realms look much more boring artistically and the vast majority of breakable walls are terribly implemented, the new survivor animations look way more stiff and clunky than the old ones; i really don't know how anyone could call them an upgrade.
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Resurrect Billy and make people want to be interested in playing him again.
He had map mobility for the 1v4 and a 1v1 that was very counterable by good survivors assuming charge time and cooldown add-ons didn't stack, and even then you could still loop him a bunch.
There's no turning back for a lot of the decisions BHVR made.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nobody is saying killers like Slinger and Twins are OP. They. Aren't. Fun. I'm not sure why so many struggle to wrap their head around the concept that something can be technically balanced but unfun overall.
Half the killers they've released since the Freddy rework are "press M2 to zone for free or actually do the thing instead". It's braindead gameplay. It's no accident that most of the killers deemed "most fun" are the ones that actually require a good amount of mechanical skill and have some back and forth in the chase.
Yeah but look at the prime killer that's deemed "most fun"; Billy. He's been extinct for basically a year now. No one plays him anymore, new players don't care about him, and the only content creators who cared enough to bring the topic back again of his nerf were Otz and Scott.
I haven't really seen any survivor main asking the devs to change him, all i see really is complaining about the next trendy killer. If you gut Billy which was a very pick before the nerf, what do you think people are gonna go play?
Otz put it very well last year: "if you're a survivor main and hate Billy, you don't want him to be nerfed too much because you're gonna see a lot more Spirits"
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I used to play killer and survivor rotation pretty much every day. Nowadays i only play a couple of survivor matches every now and then and that's about it.
The game really went downhill in terms of fun since the Billy nerf for me.
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There's no logic behind the changes. They wanted to gut Billy to incentivize new players to buy Bubba/Oni/Blight, that's about it.
Bubba is not super strong but now he's just overall better and way easier than Billy
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@Zozzy said:
You know wait times got so bad for survivor that they even admitted there was a killer shortage on stream right? This was followed up by the decisive nerf to attempt to bring back some killer players. The only time they ever do meaningful updates to the killer side is when the survivor q time gets too long.
Yeah, the only reason why they decided to change DS and Object is because people were so mad about the Pop and Undying nerfs that nobody wanted to play killer.
I very much remember survivor queues being long even before night time.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2299497#Comment_2299497
There has never been a single killer that was universally considered fun by the survivors.
You mention Deathslinger, Hillbilly, and Oni? Really? Those had a ton of complaints about them. The only reason Oni doesn't any more is because he's basically absent from all ranks, but people still complain about Deathslinger, and they complained about the Hillbilly, which is one of the reasons why he was nerfed in the first place.
If you want to say that you enjoy certain killers more than others, then, by all means, do that. But don't try to rewrite history.
Most people only wanted an add-on nerf for Billy, nobody except the really garbage and salty players asked for base kit nerfs which you shouldn't listen to as a developer.
The biggest reason why they gutted Billy was to make Oni, Bubba and Blight more inviting to buy for new players.
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@Elena said:
It's funny how cosmetics are a priority over optimisation.
BHVR knows they have lots of people who are gonna buy them anyway.
People act with words but not facts
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@Mandy said:
There's a big thing here with the word "devs" - this pretty much encompasses everybody that works on the game, including myself. And I'm on this forum 5 days out of 7 (I don't work weekend, but I do pop in during the weekend).
I pass on as much information as I'm able to, confirming things as and when I can - as shown yesterday confirming that there will be a hotfix patch today.
Sometimes there's not too much to say, right now we have a message on this forum confirming that we are looking into the issues that arose with the latest patch, and that it's being worked on. Until solutions are found, tested and ready for release there's really not much to say about it.
Many things are being worked on, including fixes, upcoming content, changes to current content - and a lot of these things are in prototype phases where no final decision has been made, and we typically do not say we're working on these things as then people get excited and expect them to be released straight away, when in reality it's some months off. We've already said we're working on changes to mori's & keys and that they are part of a larger rework for example, yet still there's posts with people expecting this to be released instantly from as soon as we mention that we're working on something.
DbD is now a pretty massive Live game, with an awful lot of things to consider, one change could have a knock on factor to many different things for example so the game as a whole always has to be considered as well as every individual perk, item, character, add-on etc and that does take time, the way things interact with each other always has to be considered, that's why any change always has to be tested to make sure that it interacts with something else in the way it was intended.
Yes, we've acknowledged the issues with the last chapter and we've acknowledged that this is something we are looking into and actively working on, which we've communicated about. Daily updates of "yes we're still working on this" really wouldn't be useful or beneficial.
@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2297701#Comment_2297701
Laughs in silent slug bug thats been around for 3 years. And nurses 126 bugs. I think they honestly gave up on bugfixing both lol.
Don't forget about Billy's bugs too. They sad they were gonna get fixed months ago and then went radio silent.
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@Pilot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2292374#Comment_2292374
I wouldn't go that far as to insult him.
I personally like Almo as a person, but not as a dev.
To be honest i don't think he's stellar in both things. Watching the dev's streams makes me wanna question my existence.
There's a reason why they don't have a lot of viewers; your work is a reflection of your person.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291631#Comment_2291631
^ this is the problem I have, it's such an easy thing to do and it rewards just way too much, I say this when I play survivor, I prefer dying while I looped and outplayed or if I got outplayed then better, I prefer actually trying to be good at the game not just a holding W bot.
It would much more respectable if playing comp style would be difficult, but it really isn't, it mostly boils down to being coordinated on comms.
It's insane that the most efficient ways to play the game happen to be the least skillful.
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@Altarf said:
Unfortunately, NOED is very unlikely to be nerfed. This is due to three main reasons.
1. Statistically, NOED probably isn't a very strong perk. Killers that use NOED aren't usually that good at the game, hence why they're using it. In games where NOED activates, it generally guarantees one kill on the poor sucker the NOED user was in a chase with, and if the rest of the team is smart, they'll just leave. Sometimes 2K, if they can't get the gates open in time. Any further kills are purely due to survivor greed. As such, when the balance team look at the statistics on NOED games, they'll probably see a large majority of 1k - 2k games. Given how BHVR balance things, this obviously means NOED must be a bad perk compared to others with high winrates, like Corrupt Intervention and other game delay perks used by higher skilled players, and so might be potentially in need of buffs.
2. The dev team has time and again expressed support for NOED's current state. Whenever anybody brings up NOED, the typical response is "do bones". This has a blatant contradiction with higher level DBD, where the game speed is so fast that doing bones is a complete waste of time, especially five of them. Normally, even if you neglect the gens and purely do bones and unhooks, all the gens will be done before you cleanse all the bones. This is works fine in SWF, but solo queues barely have enough coordination to rescue a survivor before second stage on a hook, let alone cleanse all 5 totems. Not to mention how you NEED to cleanse all 5 totems, 4 won't do. NOED is also the sole reason to cleanse dull totems, besides decent bloodpoints in the easiest bloodpoint category to max. I expect the devs want to keep it in so the bones aren't ignored even more than they already are.
3. And lastly, you have to keep in mind that the devs largely do not play DBD at a higher level. Some do, and those devs usually do not use NOED, but as seen from matches with developers in them they usually hang out at yellow ranks to green ranks. As such, and this may sound rude, they might see NOED as a healthy perk due to some of their potential inexperience with higher level killer gameplay. This is the least likely reason, but the devs have not shown to be above bias - just look at the Billy nerf when a certain lead developer stated that Billy was his least favourite killer, and compare that to the Huntress add-on pass with the majority of the dev team being Huntress players.
All of these reasons combined mean that I will be very surprised if NOED ever gets nerfed. I think the best we can hope for is telling the survivors they're exposed when the gates are powered, rather than "ha, get instadowned, lol".
Glad to know i'm not the only one who heard from this "certain developer" that Billy is his least favourite killer.
Not biased at all lol
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@Pilot said:
They won't ask us what we want, so we might as well tell them.
I hope for some Billy buffs. Dad's boots on billy are super addictive. I'm really desperate for some more steering on him by default.
Most realistic thing they could do to Billy is fix his buggy animations, but i'm starting to think they're not even fixing his bugs on purpose
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Just wait for all the defenders telling their made up stats like "it's not a problem because 99% of survivors aren't like that" as if spreading out and holding Shift W and M1 is such a crazy difficult task.
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Overheat mechanic
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284725#Comment_2284725
Yep they are all garbage especially midwich and now RPD
They made Hold W: The Map 2 but instead of long corridors it's a big ass maze
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I wish for all indoor maps to be disabled forever
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280830#Comment_2280830
Yeah, but you were hiding this. Like, he deserved to Overheat, he was trying way too much and he played bad. You cannot really deny this.
He messed up at least 3 times (getting 360ed, when Nea unhooked the other Nea and when the unhooked Nea bodyblocked (he should have known that this is gonna happen, he is a very experienced player)). So after making 3 mistakes in a row, he should be rewarded with an Instadown?
You know that Bubba exists right?
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2275618#Comment_2275618
This. I also didn't find Billy fun nor did anyone I knew personally.
He was just everywhere. Doing a gen? brrrrrrr. Got a save? brrrrrrrr. on the gate? brrrrrrr. Trying to heal? brrrrrr. In chase brrrrrrr. Spamming one shots all the time.
I don't want "haha chainsaw go brrrrrr" back again. He's still a very strong killer (imo), he just can't spam the entire match anymore. With a power that one-shots, breaks pallets, and lets you zoom at the same speed as Blight for strong map pressure with no requirement besides holding a button, I think that's fair.
Old Billy wasn't balanced. His current add-ons might need touching up, but don't bring back spam Billy.
The overheat doesn't punish you for "spamming" the chainsaw, it punishes you for even trying to use it in the first place. What you're describing really had to do with the add-on stacking which was very easy to do considering that even his low rarity ones were pretty good. Having a fast charge while also recover almost instantly was the problem, not the fact that the chainsaw didn't have any cooldown mechanic.
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Both of these things. He's been outclassed by other killers and the devs sucked the fun out of playing him with unnecessary nerfs and loads of bugs that they're still not fixing.
The new RE map is also gonna be terribile for Billy.
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Overall no. To me the game got way more boring since the Billy nerf and it slowly made me quit playing killer entirely because i don't find other killers as fun as old Billy.
I can still have some fun playing a couple of survivor matches every now and then, but i don't have the urge of wanting to boot the game almost every day like i used to at the beginning.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2270560#Comment_2270560
If you're playing to the full extent of your ability, then you're not "playing chill". You are, in fact, "sweating".
I mean, i only play solo survivor and not intentionally throw the game. If i really wanted to sweat i could play in SWF. During the MMR test i went a lot against P3/Fancy skin NOED Spirits. There's already very low variety, this is just gonna make the game more boring than it already is.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2270096#Comment_2270096
Sluzzy is actually a nurse main and a very good one at that
It's funny being a Nurse main and coming trolling on the forums about BBQ being OP lol
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2269870#Comment_2269870
If they are playing chill then technically they will never reach a point that requires sweat.
The problem is that there's only so much you can limit yourself if you're naturally good at the game. You're gonna be high MMR no matter what you do unless you intentionally throw games which begs the question of why you're playing in the first place.
For example, whether a good survivor uses DS/BT/Unbreakable/Dead Hard or a Mettle of Man build doesn't change the fact that the player might be pretty good at looping and wasting the killer's time; so what are you gonna do? Intentionally let yourself get caught in order to not sweat?
The same as killer. If you're good at your killer of choice, you're probably gonna win anyway against chill survivors even if you don't try super hard so you're eventually gonna reach higher MMR.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267876#Comment_2267876
Someone who managed to hit over 14k Chainsaw hits probably did not want to see Billy get nerfed.
So Sluzzy might be secretly a curve god :O
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@Sluzzy said:
Huntress gets a free pass when it comes to balancing. Clown loses his exhaustion gas but a hatchet can keep it?
Huntress is still the same overpowered killer as was way before so many survivor nerfs.
Also half of all pallets have been eradicated. Huntress still has FIVE hatchets despite all of these changes. Not to mention the vast number of deadzones.
My friend, do you think poor Billy boi deserved all the nerfs?
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267597#Comment_2267597
You said watch it bro that guy responded to me because I said Almo never worked on Billy’s change and yet he’s trying to prove it by showing clips of Almo saying everything is stats and op what he says never happens it’s not true not everything he says happens
Why do you care defending him so much anyway? Almo didn't like old Billy, he may not have been fully responsible but saying that the lead designer of the game didn't have any involvement makes no sense.
Anyway, it's stuff of the past, doesn't really matter who and why they did it. What matters it's been enough time of Billy being left to rot that he needs a change.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think McLean confirmed on a Q&A he was bugged. 1 year later and we still haven't got a single fix on the poor boy.
Yeah, people keep asking on his stream when they'll get fixed and he refuses to respond.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I’m just going to say something. I know it’s a joke and you guys love to bully him but Almo didn’t do Billy’s nerf. I know Mandy said it’s a team effort and all designers need to talk in order to make a decision but awhile back there was a page like this and someone made a picture and speaking of it I have it here
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W39DFZSJ83A4/e89772c7-fecf-4829-a90c-a54c19f343b3.jpeg
It’s cut off but Almo never worked on Billy’s change he only did the ones listed so none of your jokes make no sense?!
Oh yeah, so because of that he clearly had 0 impact on the nerf... come on dude
https://youtu.be/3I81sWuDWvEMinute 8:38
Can't link directly timestamp since i'm on the phone
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I don't want to put all the blame on Almo, but i genuinely believe part of the reason why Billy got over nerfed is because of him. Definitely not just a coincidence that he happens to play Huntress very often.
I saw old clips of him insisting that even old base kit Billy was too strong and needed a nerf. Whenever McLean plays Billy on his stream, half of the chat always starts complaining about the nerf and his bugs, and you can see him trying to ignore the comments.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2264234#Comment_2264234
Sluzzy is actually very good at the game.
They are a Nurse main.
Which explains a lot tbh
Imagine being a Nurse main and complain about BBQ being OP lmao
Sluzzy GOD
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People should stop buying their overpriced skins, but that's obviously not gonna happen. If there is a single thing this community is very good at, is spending tons of money in the game only to keep complaing about the same things over and over expecting BHVR to care about them.
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@NomiNomad said:
I've faced him one time in the past four or so months.
He thoroughly ######### me and my team, which just reinforces my opinion that people who stuck with him are Billy Gods.
No, it's mostly the fact that survivors don't know/forgot how to play against him, so these "Billy Gods" get a ton of free wins. For new players it's basically like he never existed.
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@Kirkylad said:
The same reason we excuse SWF.
Funny thing is if you talk about SWF you'll be met with the response of not everyone who plays SWF is that good so it's not fair to nerf them, however if you put that same argument saying not everyone who plays spirit or nurse is that good people don't seem to agree with that logic. Double standards are quite amusing sometimes.
Yeah dude, even the devs act like that. Everyone says this is a casual game but then you see the devs slapping unnecessary cooldowns on Nurse and Billy that made them much less fun to play because they needed to be more """skill based""".
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Sometimes? Every licensed map just sucks in terms of gameplay. Indoor maps should not exist, and this new one is surely gonna be the worst of them.
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@Pilot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243594#Comment_2243594
I kept thinking that as well. What a funny coincidence that Billy got heavily changed and Blight came out shortly after.
Not mentioning they made Bubba as viable, if not more viable as Billy when the patch got out.
They had to buff Bubba anyway so they used that as an excuse to over nerf Billy at the same time.
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242923#Comment_2242923
Raises the question of why they made wraith the best stealth/ambush killer
I think part of that was also them genuinely believing even old base kit Billy was too strong.
They are the same people who nerfed pallet Freddy because they thought it was too strong lmao.
I don't think it's just a coincidence that they nerfed Billy along with buffing Bubba and then releasing Blight as next DLC.
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Because Billy is free while for Bubba, Blight, Oni you have to pay for them, so BHVR wanted him gutted.
The devs haven't even bothered to fix his janky ass animations in almost a year despite them saying they were gonna do that months ago.
https://youtu.be/civV99mXFXo?t=3330Am i right, @McLean?
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@supersonic853 said:
I mean didnt people always say that when billy was getting nerfed. "Why is the considered most balanced (basekit wise) killer being nerfed when spirit and nurse get to go free"?Answer:noone knows. Mclean always said hillbilly was to rewarding for lack of skill (like backrevving) but spirit i feel in most cases encompased this more than he did. Nurse i can give slightly a pass because you can't play her for 2 hours and suddenly be good. The cielings fairly high. I think their afraid to personally touch spirit because of the imbalance at the highest level of play. She besides nurse is one of the only to be able to survive up there.
McLean LMAO.... Funny how they talk about that in regards to old base kit Billy and then they make Bubba by far the most low effort/high reward killer in the game.
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The new map is completely horrible for both sides; it's like they tried their hardest to make the worst indoor map ever.
Nemesis i find him quite boring. I don't like the concept of zombies that you can't control giving you advantages literally for free, there's nothing skillful about it and you can feel totally robbed as survivor when you see the dumbass zombie sandbagging you. I feel like it's worst kind of RNG. The tentacle ability is alright i guess, but Pyramid Head's punishment is more interesting.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233740#Comment_2233740
But look at where Billy is, he's in a fine state and he always was without add ons but people are literally considering putting him in D or C tier of their tier list. There is no other killer in DbD that made a killer go from really hard to use to almost the easiest killer to pick than Billy because of the add ons that were at his disposal.
Add ons shouldn't define who a killer is, they should be minor enhancements, not borderline broken.
The problem with Billy isn't that he's weak, the problem is that we're in a period where there are new good killers and some of the older ones have been buffed, so him receveing a rework no one asked for and the devs not fixing his bugs doesn't cut it.
Bubba already feels like playing Billy without any of the effort and inconstistencies.
Even playing with Engravings doesn't make him straight up better because of the increased charge time and more heat gained. The devs making another indoor map makes things worse.
He just doesn't compete with other killers that make much better use of add-ons. Nobody wants to play a weird nerfed base kit Billy and having to babysit a red bar.
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@Shroompy said:
Have you actually taken the time to play Billy or did you just play 1 game, do bad and come to complain about it?
I never realized the amount of people that relied on add ons to do well with him, he's the exact same base kit, he can still do everything he could before except for Space Billy. If you get fast enough downs and use your chainsaw properly overheat isnt a problem, especially if you have add ons.
I will agree tho the animations are a bit annoying, but you get used to them.
Dude, i'll never understand what "people just relied on add-ons" means; i hate Scott Jund for spreading this stupid take about Billy.
By that logic every single killer who is okay enough base kit should have all his add-ons gutted because otherwise it's boosted, but that's something that the devs only reserved for Billy according to their fantastic judgement.
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Billy, as expected 😎
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/253844/so-whats-the-point-of-hillbilly
I just think people like using what's easier instead of putting the time in. Watch KaiZ play him. And you'll realize just how good Billy still is. Kai has literally no problems with overheat or anything like that.
Funny that i watched a Billy match of him out of curiosity of his last stream, and he was using Engravings + the yellow overheat add-on, so yeah, obviously the overheat is gonna be less of a problem since you're literally sacrificing a slot to compensate for it.
Also, not to say he's bad but he could have easily lost if the survivors were just better, so no, you're not really proving a point. Billy is the hardest killer for comparatively the lowest reward now, it has nothing to do with wanting it easy.
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Billy has been relegated to being just a new player pick until they get frustrated with him, quit, and go play/buy another killer. You might have the rare occurance where you find the ex Billy main who plays a match for nostalgia or the random dude who has no idea how to play him that's doing a daily but that's about it.
He's been directly outclassed by Bubba who is an easy mode version of him, Oni and Blight which with the flicks is pretty much a better Crack Billy. On top of all the nerfs they also bugged his animations and the chainsaw hitbox feels buttery and inconsistent.
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@Phasmamain said:
While his animations are a bit wonky right now isn’t he supposed to look down during his cooldown like nurse? I thought that was intentional
Yes but not to a high amount and without the weird camera shakes.
https://youtu.be/AiNxMJA_ZNgVideo of his old animations working properly, the other differences are obvious.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2211392#Comment_2211392
What point are you trying to make here exactly? What purpose does it serve to bring Billy into this? lmao
The billy change is quite easy to explain, he was a strong killer from the get go, and despite numerous changes to map layouts, pallet quantities, speed of killer animations, exhaustion nerf etc he went unchanged, he was 'too strong' and made at a time when he needed all that.
And don't take that paragraph as me agreeing with all the billy changes because I don't, but pretending that he didn't deserve changes is naive and biased.
You said that the devs don't rely solely on statistics to make changes, but the only explanation they gave for the Billy nerf is that he was "overperforming". Considering that everyone is still hating them for that a year later, it's undeniable that they completely ignored fun factor and player feedback. Pretty much everyone only wanted some add-ons to be nerfed and make things not stack, and they did the complete opposite of that.
They didn't nerf Twins based on statistics and they still made a poor job because the only thing that they accomplished is also making them unfun to play as.
I don't understand the point about map changes and exhaustion nerf. Every single killer benefits from these things, and they buffed the hell out of a killer like Bubba which has an easy mode chainsaw, eats through pallets like no other and he's very punishing if you get caught in a dead zone.