M1MASTER
M1MASTER
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@Kebek said:
People who don't mind sluggish feeling powers.
So probably almost nobody, look at billy who's cooldown aren't as bad as slingers yet near no one plays him.
It's not really the overheat although that's annoying as well. He's become extremely clunky to play because of his janky animations and hitboxes on top of all the good add-ons being removed.
But yeah, they repeatead a similar bullshit nerf with Deathslinger.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I feel survivors dont think that far ahead. They want a killer to get nerfed for "reasons" so they whine to bhvr. They cave in and nerf said killer. Survivors think those killer mains will then use a killer thats more "fun"(for survivors) and the game will improve. What actually happens is 1 of 2 things.
1: that killer whose main got nerfed then jumps to the next meta killer. Survivors complain about the new killer being seen every match and they whine to bhvr. Seeing a pattern here?
2: that killer is fed up with having all the bp and time invested wasted. They play something else. Survivors whine to bhvr their que times are too long. Bhvr gets a licensed killer to attract fresh meat. The circle of life :p
Yeah, very well said. Something that BHVR doesn't like is when a killer becomes popular and starts to noob stomp survivors.
Survivors whined about Billy, what happened? He gets nerfed, Bubba gets buffed and Blight comes out. People stop playing him and switch to those two instead; now they're the ones survivors are definitely gonna complain next to get nerfed.
Survivors whined about Freddy, what happened? He gets nerfed, Wraith gets buffed. People stop playing him and switch to Wraith; survivors start to complain about Wraith until he got nerfed this patch.
Survivors are always gonna complain about whatever killer is popular at the moment, it's a never ending cycle.
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No.
He basically received the Billy treatment; overrated killer that gets nerfed into the ground and becomes horribly clunky to play.
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The designers of this game seem obsessed with making every killer feel horribly clunky to play to the point where nobody want to play them anymore. It's the Billy and Twins nerfs all over again.
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@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570973#Comment_2570973
Because McLean has been one of the few Devs who actually plays the game and is actually pretty good at it. It's not like McLean wasn't popular before this. If you asked most people to name their favorite Dev a month ago, most of them would've still said McLean. McLean was responsible for Blight, one of the best killers in the game.
I've seen him play on stream quite a few times and saying he's pretty good is a big stretch.
McLean was also the guy who tried to fix Blight's sliding and somehow made it worse, gave Billy laughably bad add-ons and straight up lied on a dev stream about going to fix the huge bugs he had since his nerf.
Personally, i don't miss him in the slightest.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570973#Comment_2570973
Because he called this out and we like that.
There's not a lot of W's right now, but hearing that McLean wasn't aware of it is a W, however small.
I honestly don't really care much about this situation, as if it wasn't clear enough already that BHVR only cares about milking this game as much as possible before the ship sinks.
McLean has worked on A LOT of bad changes for this game, so the fact that people suddenly praise him so much now that he leaved and can say whatever he wants, is funny to me.
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God why are people suddenly overhyping this guy so much?
It's like people suddenly forgot the last 5 years he was at the company with all the dumb things BHVR made in the past.
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It's simply because the devs don't understand at all the power level of their killers nor their mechanics.
Tuned Carburetor for Billy (which really sucks ass) being the same rarity as something Alchemist Ring should tell you everything.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560005#Comment_2560005
Yea. He can camp the hook like a champ. While once billy saws once that's it. While someone gets away. People also like easier. Why learn mind games, etc that can get you hits as Billy. When bubba is easier to use. I agreed to that much.
But I'll take the mobility + the same lethality (one shot) and a character that can get you cheeky hits that bubba cannot
The thing is that not every map is good for Billy, so the one advantage that he's supposed to have over Bubba doesn't count in every instance.
If you get like an indoor map, you can't really use your power properly, so he basically becomes straight up worse than Bubba in every single way.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560005#Comment_2560005
Or they greed the pallet for no reason. There are very few tiles that Billy can curve once the pallet is dropped. Obviously the cars are super unsafe because he can glide on those, but he'll bump almost everything else. I get so many curves on car pallets because survivors don't know the collision.
Yeah, many people are just not used to play against Billy these days, especially new players who have basically never seen him, so when you do get them most of the time, it's because they made a big mistake.
Curves are like a magic trick; once you know the details of how it works, you stop getting surprised.
Engravings were a valid choice back in days because of the old charge add-ons; now you're always at risk using them whether you find people who know how to counter you, or go into a map that sucks for Billy.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2559827#Comment_2559827
Well...Mobility is HUGE. I can't agree bubba has faster chases. Especially if you can curve. Bubba is the better camper ofc though. I'm not sure I agree bubba is better at any loop either. Easier, maybe
For the love of god guys, stop ovverating Billy’s curves so much.
Most people who get hit by curves keep hugging every loop like bots and don't even try to spin him when it's so predictable when he's about to sprint.
Bubba with double Chilli or purple Chilli and Beast's Marks is infinitely better and easier to play.
There's a good reason why Bubba is so popular these days while nobody plays Billy.
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@Artick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550835#Comment_2550835
So you are saying you are not playing Billy because they removed the insta saw busted combo?
So you are saying you're just parroting what some streamer said?
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Do they seriously need surveys to understand that everybody hates the Billy nerf? It was among the dumbest things BHVR ever done in this game.
The little buffs they gave him in the next patch do next to nothing because it doesn't change why his reworked add-ons are trash in the first place.
You have a killer that's free with the game and despite that nobody plays him anymore; what more evidence you want that people DON'T like playing Billy these days.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550155#Comment_2550155
I really don't get why the devs say to not draw conclusions from the stats and you continue to draw conclusions from the stats
Because they balance around stats? Who cares what they might say.
There are old clips of the devs around literally saying they wanted to nerf Billy because he was "overperforming".
The devs don't like when a killer starts to become a popular noob stomper.
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@Rizzo said:
Posting there for context:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/12IFAVR6QH06/image.png
I wouldn't jump to conclusions purely based on these stats, they include all players, all ratings and ranks.
Not every nerf or buff is related to simply the kill rate of a Killer, there's much more involved.
It's funny how Bubba is at the top while Billy is at the bottom, soldifying even more the argument that Bubba has become far easier to play while at the same time more rewarding.
It's also funny that both Billy and Huntress are free killers, and despite her having a tiny lower stats, she's very popular while pretty much nobody plays Billy.
It's almost as if his nerf a year ago was a massive failure...
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@Kira4Evr said:
Sometimes I really don't understand this community. People wanted a Wraith buff, and then when they finally buff him, people start complaining?
It's because with his buffs, Wraith became a noob stomper and whenever that happens, the average bad survivors start complaining left and right until BHVR caters to them.
It's same thing that happened to Billy and Freddy; very overrated killers that were able to demolish the average bad survivor whereas the good players could easily deal with them.
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I played a couple of matches with him on the PTB and his add-ons are still garbage as i expected.
They lazily raised up the numbers on Mother's Helpers and Tuned Carburetor without realizing what makes them bad in the first place.
Black Grease was turned into another weird ass, situational charge add-on.
Pighouse Gloves is basically a meme add-on now.
The heat reduction on the Engravings is okay but it doesn't really change the fact that overheat is a bad mechanic to begin with and your charge time is way too slow.
No fix to his buggy animations yet.
These stubborn changes do next to nothing to make players want to pick up Billy again, and sadly, i expect nothing to change for the live release...
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It's almost as she isn't invisibile anymore since it's easy to track where she is now. I found it way easier to deal with her in the PTB.
Iron Will + directional and proximity tracking is way too harsh.
Proximity could stay but the directional tracking needs to go.
Also, her potential to do little mind games by faking direction is worse because of the green add-ons being removed like the movement speed.
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Just like Billy, Deathslinger was nerfed by people who don't like him nor understand how his power works including his weaknesses.
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It's kind of annoying how people always have to overhype every new game to be "the DBD killer".
Anyway, there's a lot of battle pass buyers in this forum, so their answer is gonna be no whatever the case
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You're gonna get "Trapper is unfun to play against" and "Spirit nerf was not enough" posts.
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@Brokenbones said:
Hillbilly mains are probably excited
His addons are rock bottom, so how could they possibly make them worse?
inb4 they only slightly buff the meme stuff like the one where you have to be shined by a flashlight
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515789#Comment_2515789
Bring back old Mother's Helpers! That's what I'm expecting.
You mean old Spark Plug? Keep dreaming
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@[Deleted User] said:
Precarious.
The dev team seems rudderless. SBMM launched, but at the same time we have blatantly uncompetitive maps/mechanics/add ons/items/overtuned perks. They're taking a one size fits all approach, and the issue is one size fits all typically means one size fits no one.
They launched a battle pass and they're cranking out cosmetics like never before. At the same time, the quality control is egregious. Blatantly unprofessional with what they allow to ship.
They seem quite complacent, and they have no room to be. All it takes is one viable competitor.
They're cranking out cosmetics because they know people are gonna buy them. BHVR loves their money whales.
They know their mess of spaghetti code needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, but instead of doing that, they're focusing on short term profits trying to sell as much stuff as possible before the ship sinks.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2510496#Comment_2510496
I thought that was one of the best mid chapter patches we got.
Yeah, because they actually changed more than two things. It's more exciting than only relying on hoping you'll like the new DLC.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Stable but stale.
Things change so slow. I would love to see a patch that gives a mayor overhaul/buff to like 60 perks.
I wouldn't even mind if 10 of them are grossly op and need to be tweeked down a couple of months later.
I just want a bit of chaos in the game. That i can accurately predict what my opponents build is makes it hard to enjoy long sessions of this game.
It's a real shame that a game with so much variaty feels so often the same
I was surprised with that recent mid chapter patch where they changed Huntress, Demo, Freddy, BT, Object, Small Game, Lucky Break and other stuff; that looked like a patch where they actually put some effort even if i didn't agree with every single change.
Every major patch should be like that, but instead, the successive ones we got were all super barebones.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2508223#Comment_2508223
Ohhhhhh.
Yeah okay, thanks for helping me.
You're welcome. The more people get to know about these issues, the better.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2508173#Comment_2508173
I seem to not be able to detect the difference they're talking about between those 2 clips.
Not that the poster helps me see the difference, just that "the difference is pretty clear".
Functional animations
https://youtu.be/AiNxMJA_ZNg?t=115Buggy animations
https://youtu.be/JueuFtgIt1U?t=350Pay attention in particular to the position of the hammer and the chainsaw sprint recovery animation, like it's impossible to not tell the difference.
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@Boss said:
Y'know i never noticed that his animations are, apparently, janky.
Probably cause this change happened right as i was discovering Make Your Choice on Wraith. (A.k.a. i was focusing on something else entirely.)
Does anyone have comparisons perhaps? Or just showcasing that the animations are off?
There is a big old post on the bug section that the devs apparently refuse to acknowledge which explains the problems.
@Stale said:
Hillbilly has been messed up for almost a year now. Since the 3.7.0 update went live, a plethora of bugs were introduced to him despite no changes being made to him in the patch notes. While some of them were eventually fixed, the team never bothered to look into the change in animations and camera. Ever since the update, the animations when using the chainsaw have just felt off and very janky compared to how they use to be. The changes in animation are not new; they are broken and messed up. It's quite common now for chainsaw hits to look incredible weird and undeserved from a survivor's perspective. There have also been issues on Hillbilly's end. For example, when chainsawing a survivor vaulting a pallet, it will prioritize the pallet break over the hit almost every time no matter how you time it. There have also been a few cases where chainsawing a pallet will just make you bump rather than breaking it.
(Screenshots Taken from OhTofu's Videos)
(Pre 3.7.0)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/512IHJECMAYE/billyr1.png
(Post 3.7.0)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OD1YW438SURI/billyr.png
As shown above, the camera angle was changed for no reason whatsoever. While this may not seem like a huge deal at first, this change has made it so that a good majority of his weapons are barely visible on the screen now. This issue can be fixed with shadowborn or a stretched resolution.
Below are two clips showcasing the change in the first person chainsaw attack animation.
Clip of how chainsawing looked before the 3.7.0 update: https://streamable.com/6lu4ls
Clip of how chainsawing looks now: https://streamable.com/2g340r (Clip from Moody)
The difference is pretty clear; with the exception that shadowborn was being used.
I'm unable to go into detail about every single bug as it would take far too much time to gather proper evidence (comparing the animations), but it's baffling that this hasn't been solved despite all the time and reports that have gone by. These changes have caused a lot of people I know, including myself, to no longer enjoy playing this killer. If anyone is wondering why there aren't any billy mains left, this is why. I would just like for this to be acknowledged and/or to have some sort of priority if the devs are already aware.
The clips shown are only when he hits a survivor with the chainsaw though; the extremely annoying thing is when you sprint and stop, where the camera moves all over the place forcing you to look down in a nauseating way.
Just look at any Billy gameplay of 2019/early 2020 and compare that to any recent one.
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The bug report section is literally useless to make the devs acknowledge old bugs.
Billy had his animations bugged prior to his nerf and they still don't want to acknowledge a popular post in the bug section despite the fact that McLean knew about it the all time.
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Just like Billy they know about these bugs but they just don't care about fixing them.
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BHVR not fully understanding the impact of their dumb decisions is nothing new.
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@UMCorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2489460#Comment_2489460
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post here - what I meant was Billy is ridiculously overrated IMHO. I would put him in the lowest tier, not B.
Like, I genuinely have an easier time playing Legion & Clown. The only Killer I suck more with is Nurse, but it's an L2P issue with her. Maybe it's the same for Billy, but I watch Streamers with thousands of hours playtime just give up trying to land Chainsaws and play him as a M1 killer with no power for 3/4ths to match.
Oh, looking at the post again i misread that too.
But yeah, Billy was always overrated and he feels awful to play these days. Old Billy was way more fun since his add-ons also helped to remove some of the clunkiness of his base kit on top of obviously making him stronger.
Now if you want to play a guy that chainsaws people, there's no reason to pick Billy over Bubba.
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@UMCorian said:
I know there's some underrated killers out there that are amazing despite a perception they are not.
Billy has the opposite problem. Whenever I see streamers put Billy in like the B tier, slightly above average, I just can't figure it out.
He dropped to mid tier because even though he has mobility (IF the map is good for him), his chainsaw is way easier to deal with now that his add-ons got completely destroyed. Base Billy was never amazing and against good survivors he's mostly an M1 killer with mobility. Out of the high mobilty killers he's also the one who suffers from indoor maps the most.
He's just not strong enough anymore for effort you have to put in, and the competition got better, so now he's just kind of outdated.
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2489114#Comment_2489114
If I abandon Billy who else would suffer the frustrations? I'm doing my best give BHVR their crap data so my bro Billy can have his Wraith Treatment.
Some of the devs have a bit of a hate boner for Billy and they know people still hate the nerf. They don't even want to bother fixing his buggy ass animations that have been there for like a year and a half, so don't get your hopes high for anything.
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Just quit Billy and switch to better killers like everyone else did. There's a reason why you never go against him.
Without the good add-ons his chainsaw is just way too clunky for you to down actual good survivors unless they really mess up or get caught in dead zones. And then you have to deal with RPD and other trash indoor maps. No thanks
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468523#Comment_2468523
This will not be relevant for 99,99% of the playerbase.
Otz is not an amazing survivor and i remember watching him being visibly annoyed during the latest MMR test because he pretty much only went against the same gamer Blights. It was so high MMR that he got matched in the same lobby more than once with his other friend Hens despite them not being SWF.
DBD is not a high skill game, especially for survivors. I don't know where this made up 99% statements come from.
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@Kebek said:
It's probably good as long as it works. The part that captured me the most is
"SBMM will also allow us to collect more detailed statistics for our design team to work with (e.g. seeing how a perk or power performs among the top 5% of players). This data will allow us to make more meaningful tweaks and balance decisions in the future."
I wonder if they'll ever deliver on that.
I highly doubt that considering this game is 5 years old now, and even if that was the case, it doesn't change the fact that they're immensly slow at changing things, so good luck seeing a lot stuff being patched in a reasonable amount of time for BHVR's standards.
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@Rogue11 said:
They said in a dev update like six months ago that they were working on polishing the standing idle and injured running animations. And then they just...didn't.
I still hate those ones.
Yeah, i was going to say that. Just one the many other things BHVR promised but never delivered.
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Yes, i really do. People might say it's just nostalgia, but the old animations really felt better. Now everything just feels stiff visually, even with the healthy running animations there's less body movement.
The injured running animations are just objectively bad, especially the male set. You could argue that kind of galloping movement looked very gamey, but there was a certain rhythm to them.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2459091#Comment_2459091
How am I- someone complaining about people on both sides who run nothing but the easiest builds because they don't want to get good at the game- acting like the people who run the easiest builds because they don't want to get good at the game?
i can show you my usual builds for both sides, if you want, and the only meta perks show up on killer. even then, there's no ruin, undying, spirit or blight in sight.
I'm not accusing you of anything, i'm just saying that's it's pretty pointless to complain about the players for abusing stuff that the devs have intentionally put in the game.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
She's not that bad so long as you have iron will, now that stridor is nerfed. The footstep bug just makes it better. It's not a problem but once this bug is fixed she will still need turning down. She is still the 2nd best killer in the game when sounds work correctly, or when the survivor doesn't have iron will.
The threads vanished because people aren't annoyed by her anymore. People create threads as a reaction to take out their frustration, most of the time, instead of attempting to provide logical feedback. This is why most threads are "This is OP. Nerf this thing. You're useless at your jobs" instead of "This is OP. Nerf this thing. This is how I'd do it."
So, instead of being annoyed at sprit, they're being annoyed by Ruin Undying Tinkerer Blight players, where all the spirit mains have moved now that their old killer takes some small modicum of skill to use. Just like when the old 3-4 blink Nurse mains moved to Spirit, then to Freddy, then to Spirit when they realised she was still bullshit op, and now to Blight.
It's a constant cycle of moving to the next most OP thing to eliminate as much skill needed as possible instead of getting good at the game, only counteracted by survivor players who do the exact same thing (except don't need to since their meta hasn't changed since David King released).
You're acting exactly like the people you're describing though.
Why shouldn't people play Ruin Undying Tinkerer Blight with Alchemist Ring? Stuff like "Blight doesn't really need this" are just opinions, not a fact.
Maybe the DBD community should dedicate their energy to blaming the devs as they're the ones who get paid to make the game and decide what goes into it, instead of constantly pointing fingers at the players as if it's their responsability to make sure the game is "fun" and "fair".
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People always complain about what's currently popular, and it seems that nobody is playing Spirit since she got bugged. I haven't gone against one since then.
It's the reason why barely anyone complains about Hag; because nobody plays her.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452358#Comment_2452358
That's the reason. It's not the overheat mechanic. Every billy used to run Carburator, Primer bulb, Spark plug, Engravings.
Example. They gutted Freddys add ons. I used to face full slowdown Freddys every other game before the nerf.
Where is the Freddy mains now? I mean Freddy add on mains. That's right, no one plays as Freddy anymore.
This argument is always dumb and lacks of any evidence.
Nurse and Huntress got their busted addons gutted; people still play both of them and they're not easy killers.
Coincidentally, the people who say this stuff are the ones who never play Billy.
Another one is "The nerf only affected bad Billys"
I really wonder where all these good Billys are because i went against this killer like 10 times since the nerf, and they were almost all totally new players trying out a free character.
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Not gonna miss Hawkins in the slightest. The only people who like Hawkins are either ultra casual players or killers who send you there to get easy wins.
Nothing of value is gonna be lost.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2447147#Comment_2447147
It doesn't matter what hands you put Billy in. You're not going to be able to land a chainsaw hit on a good survivor unless they're literally out in the open, or they make a series of massive mistakes. Not only can you not curve most of the reworked map tiles due to wonky collision and much more corners and turns than there were before, but the rev time of moving slowly and charging is more than enough to turn two corners or get to a pallet or window, in which case you've just overheated a good portion and gotten nothing for it.
Billy is much like Myers. He was good in DBD's early state, but as the game has progressed, he's gotten weaker and weaker. Any above average survivor can loop a Billy for minutes on end regardless of the Billy's skill due to the limitations of his chainsaw, which is not something that constitutes a good killer. When was the last time you saw a Billy win, genuinely?
Billy may be fun to go against, but he is no longer good against somewhat decent survivors. At that point he is just an M1 killer with limited mobility and the occasional instadown if they're caught out in the open. His chainsaw does not work at most loops against any good survivor UNLESS it's a rare curveable loop, you have Engravings, and the survivor doesn't have the presence of mind to go around a corner.
Very well said but i would say that unlike Myers who was always a pretty basic killer, Billy became outdated the moment he got over nerfed while Bubba got a big buff and Blight released shortly after.
Blight is arguably even better than old Billy, but if his add-ons didn't got completely destroyed, he would still be kinda viable in good hands unlike now where it's just sad watching the 5 people that still main him play. You can really tell they're being held back by his garbage nerfs.
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No one is playing Spirit recently since she got bugged, so people stopped making "nerf Spirit" posts and have to complain about something else because they're bored.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/274026/why-hasnt-the-nurse-blink-bug-been-fixed-yet
Fixing bugs would make people play Nurse more and her entire base-kit gutting was meant to make her as unfun to play as as possible.
There is no real explanation for why they have left these bugs in for so long other then that they don't want Nurse to be played.
It's just like with Billy. His animations have been bugged for a very long time now on top of other stuff like the chainsaw collision being very off at times, and they still haven't fixed anything even thought they know about these things.
Devs are definitely VERY biased toward certain killers.
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Yeah, just ######### Hawkins and can't wait to never see it again.
We still have RPD and Lerys as super claustrophobic, but i would much rather get The Game and Midwich over Hawkins since they're at least a bit more open.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2433545#Comment_2433545
Demo is one of the most played killers at middle ranks and MMR. You won't see it at high MMR because that's only Blight, Spirit, and the occasional Nurse, but it was a popular perk at the more relaxed skill level.
No more Hawkins is terrible news. All it means is the chances of getting RCPD have raised.
Even without MMR i've very rarely seen him anyway.
It's true that more chance of RPD is bad, but out of all indoor maps, i still prefer getting more The Game and Midwitch over ever seeing Hawkins as they're less claustrophobic.