LittleBigSunset
LittleBigSunset
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@Tsela said:
24 meters and going up from there? No way. Like aura reading for half map just because somebody is down? And if all have the perk basically they all get aura reading distance increase, covering the entire map basically? Nah. Maybe 6 meters for the first downed and adding 5 meters for each downed survivor, the perk disables for the the next downed survivor so you don't have multiple "beacons" for aura reading.
No way is 24m covering 'half the map'. That's less than Bond by 8m. Maybe 16m as default would be more balanced (same range as Kindred) but to be honest as it's a perk that only activates when someone is slugged on the floor I think it can afford to be powerful. Especially when that aura only applies when the killer is still near the slugged survivor.
If the base aura was 6m it would be near worthless. For you to get value that basically means the killer's standing over them the whole time. And then for it to go up to 16m only IF three people are slugged on the floor (which is in of itself incredibly situational) would simply make the perk not worth running, which this rework is trying to change. Having the perk deactivate after a single survivor is 'downed', not even slugged, would make it even worse than it is now.
The change makes it so you have a very powerful aura reading tool but at the expense of having your team slugged and unable to help you. And it is completely down to the killer as to whether or not it is useful or a dead perk slot (if they choose to slug in the first place). I think it's fine. It's similar to Sole Survivor in a way. Not to mention that the benefit is really only helpful to solo players as SWFs can communicate where the killer is anyway.
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Excellent suggestion. As of right now Buckle Up is way too situational and offers way too little in that situation for anyone to run it over other more useful perks. This would give it a much needed boost in usefulness, make it less situational and a valuable aura reading perk. Could see myself running it if this change was made.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151990#Comment_3151990
Yep, the same logic applies to any of them.
I get you but at the same time I don't think they're that easily comparable. Huntresses can't throw hatchets through walls and survivors can hear the hatchet being readied, giving them a chance to duck or find cover. PH has to be close to the survivor to actually hit them and takes much longer to close the distance between them than Nurse does. Artist can't fire lethal birds across the map unless you're already birded and there is a delay before the birds reach you across long distances. Nurse does not have any of these drawbacks. If you know where the survivor is via aura you can blink straight to them regardless of LoS and effectively guarantee a hit. That's why I thought the change to the aura reading was a good idea because it makes it so auras can still be good information for Nurse but doesn't make them 'free hits'. And with it being a Nurse specific change it doesn't gut the aura reading perks on other killers like as you say Huntress.
I don't play Nurse but I think she'd still be strong if that was to go ahead.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150726#Comment_3150726
Okay, so let me explain what I meant.
First off, no, they're not doing a Freddy-level rework. A Freddy rework is creating an entirely new killer, which not only alienates the current killer's fanbase, it's extremely difficult when also trying to squeeze in the other actual new killers. When asked, I was never given a "never" answer, but it is unlikely.
Clown and Doc's powers remained mostly the same. Clown just gained a new bottle type, and Doc's rework was mostly just a lot of simplifying a very complex power.
A better comparison would be Legion. Besides Freddy, Legion has probably changed the most out of any killer considering Legion now and Release Legion are functionally different killers despite the power still being a simple "run fast and stab people" loop. But, fixing Legion to be fair meant making their power mostly non-lethal, and their 2nd rework was more polishing after their 1st one. There was a clear route you could go with Legion and make them better.
Nurse is... ######### do you do? Her power literally lets her go through walls. If her attacks are special, cool. Now there's no more exposed Nurse. But uh... she's still bottlenecking aura perks, which Awakened Awareness is, which means the problem still exists. Aura perks are more or less free hits as Nurse. So honestly, I don't feel that Special Attacks alone would solve much.
Not to mention, when I've asked about it, I get told how it'd be re-opening an old can of worms of "what's a basic and what's a special" attack argument since Nurse's lunge is almost completely identical to a basic attack, then there are OTHER killers such as T3 Myers with an extended lunge or Slinger's whose reel into M1 deep wounds you despite being basic. Then there's the nuance of her being able to grab people identical to an M1 grab (which cannot be removed as it's tied to achievements) and thus being subject to the Grab-M1 cancel.
Am I a defeatist? Yeah, probably. But honestly, I do not see a solution that makes anyone happy.
Just to add to this, I saw another really good change Nurse could get in another thread just now. When she's charging her blink she's unable to see auras like eg: Spirit. Keeps aura perks viable but makes it so precise blinking on top of survivors now requires some intuition and guess work instead of being able to aim perfectly at where they are while they're running.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150726#Comment_3150726
Okay, so let me explain what I meant.
First off, no, they're not doing a Freddy-level rework. A Freddy rework is creating an entirely new killer, which not only alienates the current killer's fanbase, it's extremely difficult when also trying to squeeze in the other actual new killers. When asked, I was never given a "never" answer, but it is unlikely.
Clown and Doc's powers remained mostly the same. Clown just gained a new bottle type, and Doc's rework was mostly just a lot of simplifying a very complex power.
A better comparison would be Legion. Besides Freddy, Legion has probably changed the most out of any killer considering Legion now and Release Legion are functionally different killers despite the power still being a simple "run fast and stab people" loop. But, fixing Legion to be fair meant making their power mostly non-lethal, and their 2nd rework was more polishing after their 1st one. There was a clear route you could go with Legion and make them better.
Nurse is... ######### do you do? Her power literally lets her go through walls. If her attacks are special, cool. Now there's no more exposed Nurse. But uh... she's still bottlenecking aura perks, which Awakened Awareness is, which means the problem still exists. Aura perks are more or less free hits as Nurse. So honestly, I don't feel that Special Attacks alone would solve much.
Not to mention, when I've asked about it, I get told how it'd be re-opening an old can of worms of "what's a basic and what's a special" attack argument since Nurse's lunge is almost completely identical to a basic attack, then there are OTHER killers such as T3 Myers with an extended lunge or Slinger's whose reel into M1 deep wounds you despite being basic. Then there's the nuance of her being able to grab people identical to an M1 grab (which cannot be removed as it's tied to achievements) and thus being subject to the Grab-M1 cancel.
Am I a defeatist? Yeah, probably. But honestly, I do not see a solution that makes anyone happy.
Thank you for explaining what you mean a bit further. I agree it is a complex problem and that you do raise good points. I'm wondering if there is a way for Nurse's power to remain as is conceptually while being 'balanced' when you put her alongside the rest of the killer roster. She sticks out like a sore thumb at the moment but her power is one of the most unique ones in the game. Retaining it in some way would be a big plus and keep the Nurse players somewhat happy.
Maybe her blinks have to be earned in some way and as a trade off she can be given normal movement speed? That's probably ridiculous so feel free to shoot that down (I'm about as lethal with Nurse as a blind bat with no wings).
There's got to be a rework that can be made, somewhere imbetween the scale of Freddy and Legion that keeps the majority of the playerbase happy and solves her core issues. I'm sure there is. But like you I'm drawing blanks. I just know that removing Exposed Nurse is a good starting point. It is by no means the solution to her as a whole. And with perserverance I'm sure a solution or compromise can be found. If we accept the Nurse problem as is then nothing will ever get changed with her. We pushed with the range addons not 'working as intended' and finally they're reverting them to their actual addon description. That's awesome. But we wouldn't have gotten that change if we weren't vocal enough about it to the point BHVR felt they had to change their stance on those addons.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150740#Comment_3150740
Wholesome reply. Thank you! It's one of the reasons I decided to post here. It feels good to know that at least I'm not alone.
No problem. I find venting or talking about my problems out loud with other people (if they're people that want to listen) almost always helps or gives me perspective that makes me feel better about said problem. Happy to help :)
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@buffcoyote said:
This is another cliché rant about a match I just had. I am a survivor main, and I'd say I'm pretty decent. We were at the meat factory plant, and I was being tunneled by a Doctor. Fine, that's okay. I actually enjoy being tunneled because I like to juke/loop. I like to take it as a positive experience to see how I can improve my skill. Anyways, everything was going great. I hadn't been hit yet, and I managed to loop down to 2 gens! For whatever reason, a Meg decides to join in and body blocks me so that I get hit. I thought it was a genuine accident, that they were trying to save me from being tunneled when I didn't need it. Fine, I shrug it off and continue the chase. The Meg comes AGAIN, and this time they slam a pallet down in my face and t-bag as the killer downs me. I get placed on the hook, and NONE of my teammates except a Claudette (who was also toxic, I'll get to that) even ATTEMPTED for the save. Mind you, they were all fully healed at this point. They used my entire 2 hooks to heal each other, and do 1 gen. Now, I promise you for those who are skeptical. I did absolutely NOTHING to deserve this treatment. I was just playing the game. No t-bagging, nothing. So I spectate them and watch them do totems, the last gen etc. I ask them why in the chat would they do that to me. The Meg says "I hate rats, do you see my rank?" and the Claudette says that apparently I used all the pallets...mind you, I *literally* watched the Claudette vault from pallet to pallet the entire time after I died. There was no way I "used all the pallets". I deliberately make sure that I am conserving pallets for my teammates to use, it's the number 1 reason why I refuse to use the shack god pallet and would rather go down. The Claudette proceeds to tell me that my death was "karma bb" and then I just left. Wow. My own teammates.
The role doesn't matter here. Simply put, if someone wants to be a ****, they will be a ****. I've seen alarming toxicity from both sides in situations where none of it was deserved or spurred on at all. It's a problem every game has but it can feel particularly common in DBD if you keep getting matched with the same kind of people. That's just the luck of the draw.
I had a survivor one time block the exit switch so I couldn't leave because they thought I sandbagged them at the very beginning of the game where we ran in the same direction away from the killer. And the resulting chase didn't even get them hooked. I was beyond baffled and honestly a bit frustrated. But it's not like I could argue my side or get them to apologise. So believe me you're not the only one who's had their teammates screw you over for no reason at all.
They do it because they know they can get away with it and enjoy upsetting people. That's the nature of the internet unfortunately and games as well. As long as you know you didn't do anything wrong you can just move on from it. And even if you did deserve it, it's only one game at the end of the day. You'll forget about it in no time.
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Obviously with a view this defeatist you're never going to think that Nurse can be changed in a way that keeps her viable in high MMR play while being healthy for the game.
I'd say a rework could very much be possible. Freddy got a completely new power. Clown had a new mechanic added to his. Doc's was made to be easier to use and more efficient. Adjusting Nurse so her power doesn't limit design space isn't the most difficult thing to concieve.
Firstly making her blinks special attacks would allow the devs to design more perks that grant Exposed status without fearing they will make Nurse too powerful. Starstruck is such an example here, any Nurse with it can dominate the match and create a snowball slugging effect quickly while on other killers it is nowhere near as effective (although still decent). If her blinks were special attacks then Nurses get no value from Starstruck and this would make it a dead perk on her but she already has plenty. Or if we were to make a compromise only the first blink counts as a normal hit and the chain blinks count as special. That would keep it viable but not blindly overpowered (but would have to see this in practice).
Secondly I think Awakened Awareness on Nurse on it's own is fine. Aura perks on Nurse are strong because of her quickly she can traverse the map to reach those auras before the survivors have the chance to hide or make distance. But this in of itself isn't overpowered. It's only in combination with insta-down perks that they become much more lethal. And there are counters to AA too. Distortion is a very viable counterperk to aura builds and not one that you as a survivor feel punished for running like some of the other non-meta perks. And once you know the Nurse has AA you know to keep out of her way when she has someone on her shoulder. Simple as that.
I may be underestimating the work that's needed here to 'fix' Nurse but special attack blinks would be a simple and more than welcomed first step that the Nurse community wouldn't feel is unjust or unfair. Nurse is still the best killer in the game bar none without access to insta-down abilities. It may not resolve the core issue of her gameplay concerning game balance and design space but it would be a start and a step in the right direction. Being defeatist and telling people to just accept such a glaring issue that will only get worse overtime and dismissing potential changes isn't the right thing to do here. If you enjoy DBD and are passionate about seeing the game grow and develop further you should advocate change not shoot it down as 'extremely taxing on resources'. Unless you are on the development team yourself I don't know how you would know that.
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@Dito175 said:
You can use your controller on pc if you don't want to deal with the keyboard.
That's a great point. Looking on Steam it does say the game has full controller support. Thank you :)
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132546#Comment_3132546
I know this is completely unrelated, and I hope you dont mind me asking, but is your name based off of Little Big Planet? Just wondering.
It is. One of my favourite games growing up as a kid. It has a very special place in my heart :D
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@Leachy_Jr said:
I mean, it's not surprising why it's being ran after 90 second gens, but damn, I take a microsecond longer on a chase and suddenly a gen that was on 0 is now on 70.
My dumbass over here thinking I'll take off DMS pain res for a few days trying out newly buffed perks like monstrous and coulrophobia. Ye, prove and circle put an end to them fun builds quickly. Curse the amount of sweaty squads on weekends.
Has anyone been having any success with discordance? I wanna run it but it just seems like the gen will be done before I get there, and/or it won't be worth it in the long run because I don't usually run gen kicking perks.
There's a certain killer of the avian variety that could prevent survivors from completing gens if they're highlighted with Discordance by firing something feathery at them. And it can go through walls!
I forget their name, though.
...
To be serious for a second I can think of a few ways you could encourage survivors to stay apart from each other. Playing Plague so survivors don't want to spread sickness and get on the same gen. Legion because of their frenzy. Instadown killers with a lot of snowball potential like Oni would also encourage survivors to spread out. Discordance I feel is only really good on killers with high mobility so you can like you say get to the gen before it's fully repaired.
PT has been a strong perk since forever. It certainly hasn't gotten any stronger since the update. So whatever killer strategies you've used pre-update probably still apply. Get hooks or slug and force them off gens to save their team. The more pressure you apply the less chance two survivors can crank out the same gen. I realise that just sounds like 'just pressure gens lol' but that's really the main counter to it. Give them a reason to get off the gen.
If you were gonna run any gen-kick perk Eruption would be a good choice as it punishes doubling up on gens harder (because Survivor 2 could've been doing another gen instead of helping Survivor 1 on their gen and now instead they're both unable to do anything meaningful as they're 'incapacitated' aka allergic to gens for 30 seconds).
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
It's been a long time since patch. And we had good time to use it or play against it.
So what are you thinking now? How Dead Hard is feels now? I am asking for both roles btw. Is it still good to use in trials as survivor? How it feels to play against DH users as killer?
I think it's the most well thought out perk rework of the whole update. They didn't gut it like they did Ruin even though it was easily the most popular exhaustion and maybe in general survivor perk in the game and honestly OP as hell. The rework still keeps it viable (in fact arguably it is better than before because of the distance you gain from being hit) while ensuring it requires a proper understanding of how the perk works to use it effectively. It's not a mindless 'press E' to extend your chase by a minute. You have to be very precise and strategic in order to get use of it, and it no longer gives you the ability to be super cocky in chases/around loops. It's perfect.
Plus it gives you the power to dab. Seeing Laurie dab is a more than welcome addition to the game for me.
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I'm only ever 'toxic' when the opposing side are to me first. And that only really applies to me when playing killer. If they're gonna go out of their way to try and make my experience unfun, I'm going to stop caring as much about how much fun they're having. But you have to take it on a game by game basis. No going into the next match and being an ######### from the get go just because the last lot of survivors felt like being cocks and rubbing in a loss or taking advantage of knowing you're worse than they are.
Really though you should never take anything beyond the game itself. Someone wants to click at you and teabag then by all means tunnel them out. But don't sling ######### at each other in the post game chat or private messages. It's only a game at the end of the day and simply not worth the effort or thought. Nothing good comes from it. You move on and go into the next game and before you know it it's all forgotten about.
To answer your question, I don't think it's 'toxic' to 'hit back' as hard as your opponent is in-game. You want to play dirty I'll play dirty back. But if you start getting personal and messaging people and saying ######### beyond the game then that is toxic. Not just in DBD but toxic behaviour in general. Unfortunately some people have bad games and then use that as an excuse to play dirty against the next people they go up against even if they've done nothing to deserve it. That's why the community has the reputation it has. If you lose bad and to a team/player that wants to rub it in then it can be fairly frustrating. But taking it out on the next people you verse isn't the solution.
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Perks that counter the killer kicking gens or make them much more of a nuisance to kick are really good right now in this new meta of gen-kicking reliant gen regression.
Repressed Alliance lets you block a gen for 30 seconds just by interacting with it. If you find out the killer has Eruption and know they're coming over to kick the gen, block it. If everything goes well they move off to another gen or wait 30 whole seconds just to kick it, at which point you've gotten great use out of it.
Blast Mine is similar. You stay on a gen for 3 seconds and then 'arm' the gen. When the killer goes to kick it, they get blinded and stunned and then have to kick it again. Less effective but a decent way of discouraging killers from kicking particular gens.
Other than that your options are limited. Solo queue in general really suffers from a lack of information as to what your team is doing and Eruption highlights this enormously. A SWF can easily communicate when someone is about to go down to avoid the 25 second 'stun', solo queue players cannot. Empathy can give you somewhat of an idea as to how vulnerable a teammate is but you'd still be guessing. Kindred may help. Perks that show you the killer's aura would help the most because then you could see if they're about to swing, use their power etc. and anticipate the down. But I can't think of anything that does that effectively while you're still on a gen. Object of Obsession maybe???
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Hey, the further away I can hear that awesome chase theme and not be in any danger the better.
Is it confirmed to be 40m? That seems huge. I thought the highest a killer had was 32m.
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I'm indifferent on Nurse in general (although making her blinks special attacks would be more than welcome) but the one thing I am adamant needs to be changed are her range addons. Speaking from personal experience she plays much easier and is less punishing for mistakes if you run one or both of these because they increase your speed when you blink by a considerable margin regardless of how long you charge the blink.
I will give you an example. I played two Nurse games. The first was on The Game with the brown flannel blink seeing addon and something else like recharge. I got two hooks the whole game. The survivors weren't good either as they took forever to finish gens. I was just too bad at catching them and kept losing them.
Then the second game was on RPD, an arguably much worse map for Nurse (if it isn't, feel free to explain, I am not a Nurse main). I was running both of the range addons. I got a 2k with the other two on death hook. And I suck with Nurse hard. The difference between playing her with and without these two addons is literally night and day. I would encourage you to try this yourself and see the difference. It's nuts, and it's no wonder you see nearly all Nurses run one or both of these addons whenever you face them. I guarantee they are a major factor to contributing to the Nurse hate lately, which seems to have spiked around the time these 'bugged' speed buffs were passed off as intended.
The speed buff really should be removed, by the way. Nowhere in either of the addon's descriptions is blink speed mentioned. All that is affected according to the descriptions are maximum blink range and the time it takes to fully charge a blink. How they can be portrayed as intended effects is beyond me when they are not even listed as an official effect of the addon. Revert these addons to their original form and I am sure the hate will die down.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
I think my comment got deleted, somehow?
Just going to summarise my previous points. You shouldn't generalise the very vocal minority of survivors that are mindlessly complaining as 'survivors' in general. The developers will make changes, but it will not be based on mindless complaining that doesn't offer valid criticism that they can consider. We're only two weeks in to the game's biggest meta-breaking patch, so they're going to take their time for the game to settle instead of jumping the gun and making quick changes based on little actual data.
And please don't dismiss genuine criticism, such as in regards to easier camping/tunnelling and solo queue being harder due to needing QoL additions to catch up with killers. Especially under the pretense of 'you can't use DH anymore lol get good'. It's super annoying to see and is a common dismissal on the forums at the moment.
Weirdly my comment from earlier just reappeared again all of a sudden. Maybe these forums are more bugged than the game.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104303#Comment_3104303
You have a good head on your shoulders. I like you. Don't ever change.
What a kind thing to say. Thank you :)
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I think my comment got deleted, somehow?
Just going to summarise my previous points. You shouldn't generalise the very vocal minority of survivors that are mindlessly complaining as 'survivors' in general. The developers will make changes, but it will not be based on mindless complaining that doesn't offer valid criticism that they can consider. We're only two weeks in to the game's biggest meta-breaking patch, so they're going to take their time for the game to settle instead of jumping the gun and making quick changes based on little actual data.
And please don't dismiss genuine criticism, such as in regards to easier camping/tunnelling and solo queue being harder due to needing QoL additions to catch up with killers. Especially under the pretense of 'you can't use DH anymore lol get good'. It's super annoying to see and is a common dismissal on the forums at the moment.
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@HungrySnek said:
I know what kind of comments I will get and I don't care, I wanna talk about this because this game is important to me.
Survivors are ruining the game. Of course not everyone but most of them. I have a few examples but I will start with the biggest one.
The 6.1.0 Update is out since a few days and...survivors are losing there crap over everthing. Constantly crying here over the changes or killing themselves in game/dc the moment something happens they don't like.
I have to say that there are two real problems right now in the game that have to be adressed. Nurse and slow down combos
But other then that is the game in a healthy state like never before. Killers got the buff they needed and finally is the meta different. But here comes the problem. Entilted survivors who don't give themselves time to adjust and instead become childish and toxic towards others.
"Killers are now too op!"
"They win every round with a 4k!"
And similar sentences over and over again. And the thing is...of course are killers now stronger...but it's not there fault that you are bad. It shows that a few survivors are not able to win without dead hard, dstrike and the other meta crap from before. But instead of trying to learn new perks or learn to loop without needing to press E they go the childish Route and try to force the devs to revert the changes with disconnects and crying posts here and every where else.
I am not a killer Main, actually I am really bad as killer and even now with the update I'm still losing games like before. I play survivor in the morning and in the evening killer. I am not a expert in this game with 50k hours but I have spend my hours in this game and this Update is a step in the right direction so please devs Show that you don't go back because some babies lost there op things.
It's a bit silly to apply what the very vocal minority of survivors are saying to just 'survivors' in general. And any dev worth their salt isn't going to make changes based on said very vocal minority only two weeks after probably the biggest update meta-wise the game has ever recieved.
Plus some of the survivor criticism is perfectly valid. Tunnelling and camping are now for the most part easier. Solo queue is overall harder as it still needs QoL additions. I've seen a lot of people on this forum dismiss valid criticism under the pretense of 'oh you just need to actually get good lol can't rely on DH now' and it's so annoying, especially when it's aimed at survivors that have never even run the sodding thing.
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Voice chat in this game is a powder keg just waiting to go off. The amount of toxicity in this game is already through the roof, especially in the post-game chat, and I unfortunately could only see VC adding to it further. A few rotten apples spoil the bunch sadly.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
Terror radius theme I'm very biased and would say artist or twins.
Actual chase theme id say probably sadako, slinger, or dredge.
Based
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102983#Comment_3102983
I'm including the lead in part before the chase which is pretty rad
Oh! That makes more sense. I can agree with you on that.
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@Veinslay said:
Pyramid Head
Interesting. His music never really stood out to me to be honest.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have a hard time picking one but Oni and Nemesis are too good.
Whomever does music for DBD does such an amazing job. Even the current menu theme is a bop.
I agree. If there is one thing DBD knocks out of the park it is the aesthetic of the game. The music and killer designs especially.
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@NekoGamerX said:
I posted this in another thread but don't said if good idea or not so
I think an easy fix to solo would be if your solo you get a 5th perk slot but only for solo and only for aura perks, but if your in a group of 2,3 or 4 the 5th slot is gray out can't use it
the 5th slot can only be use for aura perks and you can only pick one
so Bond Kindred or Empathy I think there are other aura perks but those are the 3 best I think
I'm sure most would use kindred for that slot
I don't know if the dev be able to pull that off but I feel it would work
what you guys think?
I feel like a better solution balance wise is to just make one of the perks you'd run in this fifth slot basekit. Like Kindred, for example.
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@tendyhands said:
This is going to sound toxic but I'm honestly trying to do this for the sake of the game. I'm going to be a camping and tunneling killer. I'm so tired of people on here saying how easy it is to counter with just off the record. If I camp/tunnel it's so easy to get a 4k. I never did that and always avoided chasing someone off hook but apparently BHVR and half the people who post on forums don't think it works so I'm just going to do it from now on. I honestly wish every killer did this then BHVR would actually fix the game. But as it is basically the killers that don't camp and tunnel have harder games and the ones that do tunnel get an easy at least 3k.
I hope I get some of the people that think off the record with 1 extra hit is going to save you from losing the 3v1 after. Since camping and tunneling apparently doesnt work, I guess I won't get any easy 4ks from this. Maybe some day BHVR will realize camping and tunneling should be removed from the game instead of just adding probably the most cheap/toxic game tactic I've ever seen allowed in a game.
I can kind of understand where you're coming from but believe me this is the completely wrong way to go about it. You're contributing to and amplifying the problem for the sake of raising awareness of it. If you browse this forum regularly then you'd know camping and tunnelling are spoken about to the ends of the earth. BHVR are already aware of tunnelling and camping. They buffed Off the Record to be a useful anti-tunnel perk and attempted to address it in solo queue by adding a 5 second basekit BT. They adjusted DS but for some reason gutted the stun time to the point it's much harder to counter tunnelling effectively (probably in an attempt to make DS less of a 'meta' perk).
What I'm saying is the issue you're protesting about is already being vocalised enough. The developers are clearly making some effort to discourage tunnelling and camping (longer gen times, easier to pressure, shorter chases) and obviously they are not perfect. What's important to note is that ultimately, there is no way tunnelling and/or camping can be REMOVED from the game. They can make it harder or less beneficial (Borrowed Time, old Decisive), but it is down to the killer to determine whether or not camping or tunnelling occurs. It's practically impossible to remove while taking into account typical gameplay. Seriously, how would you remove it? Make it so unhooked survivors are invincible? Force the killer to be at least 30 meters from the hook at all times? Such changes would shift the balance so far to the survivor side killers would leave in droves.
My advice would be to be the change you want to see in others. Continue to be an easy going killer rather than the numerous ones that want to tunnel at five gens to have a guaranteed win. Make the survivors' experience that much nicer. I can tell you that the games I had where the killer played 'fair' were much more fun and still almost always resulted in the killer doing really well while having the match's outcome be close. So I really encourage you to not give in to this tunnelling protest mentality.
Finally, be patient and wait for changes. This was an enormous update, probably the biggest meta shake up the game has ever seen. As you've seen people on the forums are very vocal. No dev worth their salt is going to immediately make changes based on some very vocal complaints. But I am sure they will make changes. I could see DS being reverted as a minimum.
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I think the piece is the problem. Being able to take someone out of the game without hooking them once early on (if you are able to get good enough stalk) can straight up end matches, especially post-update. The actual tombstone takes much longer to activate and penalises you until you do. If the survivors aren't able to make good progress on gens by the time Tier 3 pops that's on them.
I thought of a rework piece could have.
Tombstone Piece: Upon fully stalking a survivor, they are inflicted with the Exposed status effect for the rest of the trial.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101907#Comment_3101907
If you liked that, you might like My Time at Portia on Steam. It's another happy little game but the art/graphics are nicer.
I'll check it out, thank you.
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@Beatricks said:
I'm not joking when I say DBD is the best (and by that I mean worst) Stockholm Syndrome Simulator ever. I should have ditched this game back when SBMM was introduced but here I am, still playing at least Killer now with SoloQ dead and buried. If you can get out do it now.
It really is, isn't it? I have the worst love-hate relationship with this game possible. I keep wanting to come back even though I know I'm not gonna have a good time. I'm still playing solo queue even though it's the worst it's ever been lol
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@CluelessWanderer said:
There is a habitual factor and an addiction factor. Don't blame yourself- it's about habit and addiction. Game makers, DBD included, are fully aware of this and depend/bank on it.
This isn't medical advice, but tbh if it's making you miserable the most effective way to treat it is to replace the addiction. I'm playing Stardew Valley LOL.
God my fall pumpkins are epic this year.
I love Stardew Valley! It's been one of the few other games I've been playing recently. I need to get back into it properly again.
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@JakeCannon said:
So I'm super new and still happy about it but I just got my second red rank in a row for killer!(for me since patch I've only had 3 quick and easy games) . Just patting myself on the back lol
Congrats. I am still yet to make the push to red ranks myself on killer. Highest I've gotten is Gold 2. Killer feels like too much of a slog to me most of the time so I struggle playing it for more than say an hour at a time. Makes grinding it a problem.
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Upon using the active ability button, you explode.
That's it, that's the rework.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098153#Comment_3098153
If the nurse uses her two range addons, indeed she'll get 10 meters of range, but her cooldown is consequently at its slowest, which will penalize her slightly, especially if she failed to hit the survivor with her second tp. It is up to the survivor to use this cooldown not to put some distance between them, but to get to a place where it will be easy to break the nurse's LOS.
So if you're not able to make any distance during the cooldown, how are you going to be able to break LOS? I don't follow. Also typically the Nurses I see will run the purple range addon with the best recharge addon to compensate for the cooldown. This is not to mention that the range addons make her travel speed faster than before even though this is not mentioned at all as an effect in the addon's description. The devs acknowledged this and apparently it's intended. This pseudo 'buff' should be removed.
But then again, I suck with Nurse hard. So maybe you can give me some insight.
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If they're going to nerf anything, nerf her range addons. I see Nurses with these every time I get them and it makes her so much harder to play against. I versed a Nurse a couple nights ago that was actually running different addons and it was a much more enjoyable and still very close match. It'd hardly be crippling her to nerf them.
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@camping_site said:
After 3-4 years maining survivor I must admit last patch was a sign that I must be looking for a new game. In the first days, since likely I had high mmr, soloQ team managed max maybe 3-4 gens until 4K. After several of these matches I likely downgraded my mmr and luck changed, but the feel of the killers was just bad- complete babies, which didn't make that experience any fun.
What I noticed in most of my after patch matches?! Killers still run slowdown, regression perks. Killers still proxy camp, tunnel. That 5 sec BT does #########. And since gen repair nerf to 90 sec, camping is so much stronger. Actually, the same could be noticed after toolboxes, great skill checks and gen co-op was nerfed year or so ago, but not to this extent.
DBD just made every aspect of this game worse for survivor experience. I doubt they will revisit any changes in coming months, so... saying goodbye to great DBD community... Killer mains as well :):)
I felt the same when the patch dropped. Even with the killer changes killers seemed to want to make my games as miserable as possible. May have just been bad luck getting matched with so many in a row (I kept getting Nurses that would have everyone slugged at 4 gens and would sometimes even leave us to bleed out) but it was very disheartening to see that the strategies killers said they needed to use to win still being used just as hard if not harder after they got a considerable buff to chase and preventing gens from being finished.
Was enough for me to uninstall (I made a post about it like you have explaining why) and I took a week break before coming back to see if things were any better. In my experience for the most part they have been. I've seen more fair killers now than tunnellers, campers and sluggers, although they are by no means gone from the game at all. Truthfully I don't think anything will stop killers from doing it if they want to win hard enough to tunnel at five gens or camp because they don't want to chase anyone and/or make the camped survivor miserable. BHVR could add as many changes as possible and it would still be down to the killers themselves as to whether or not they make a difference. DS needs to be reverted to discourage it though. That's one of the biggest problems I have with this patch at the moment.
Given your post I've been far luckier with the killers I've been getting since returning than you have. I'd consider doing what I did and coming back after a break to see if things have improved. It worked for me for the most part. And I envy you if you actually are able to give DBD up for good. It's like crack. You keep coming back for more, even though by the fortieth hit you're numb to the core and don't get anywhere near the same level of enjoyment.
Best of luck with things anyway.
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Laurie, Kate, and Jill, in that order.
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@Dunkinspunkin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094942#Comment_3094942
Yeahhh you're not playing swf. My advice stands. Like it or not.
I solo q just fine though
What? Being in a SWF will not prevent you from getting tunnelled. Might make it harder for the killer to do so if your teammates are committed enough but ultimately the killer is going to get you if they are determined to whether you like it or not. And having your team pile around you trying to take hits means no one's doing gens, which means they're getting free pressure for nothing. And if it's a Nurse or Blight, forget it, you're not stopping them period.
The OP post: "I'm really not enjoying the game. Tunnelling is more prevalent than ever. I feel unrewarded for good chases and teamwork"
Your 'advice': "Just get friends lol why is it so difficult for you"
How is what you're saying relevant or helpful in any way?
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@Dunkinspunkin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337501/had-such-an-awful-night
Here's some advice. Make literally one friend and the entire game is a million times better. This is not the only game where solo queue is a toilet. Is it that hard to make a friend, guy?
That's some awful 'advice'. Not to mention the post doesn't even mention solo queue. Being in a SWF doesn't make you immune from getting tunnelled out of the game.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3094858#Comment_3094858
I think they thought 5s basekit BT would actually do something appreciable about tunneling. Which it really doesn't.
Unfortunately a killer that wants to tunnel you can easily wait out the five second BT they KNOW you have. It's not enough time to make distance to a pallet or window unless you are lucky with where the hook is. Actual BT is strong because it is harder to wait out without making the tunnelled survivor that much harder to catch, and if you want to tunnel through their BT they get hit and make a good amount of distance that usually makes it not worth it to tunnel. The basekit version doesn't tick any of those boxes. It is very easy to play around and ensure that the tunnelled survivor cannot make any distance to make them not worth the tunnel. It only really makes a difference against facecamping killers and if there is a window/pallet very close to the hook. Otherwise it's useless.
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Hopefully the DS stun time is reverted soon. Still scratching my head as to why it got nerfed so hard and why the devs thought it would be good for the game.
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1) This is true, but if tunnelling and camping are becoming much more prevalent you're going to start seeing the same perks again to counter them. BT and OtR will be must-haves. Kindred is a must-have for solo queue players to ensure you can coordinate and cope with the longer gen times. And then you will run an exhaustion perk to prolong chase. You can't afford to run perks like Deja Vu or Pharmacy in a meta where tunnelling and camping is more prevalent than ever.
2) True, but I wouldn't call DS a crutch. After all the changes it has been through it is very difficult to argue that it is anything but an anti-tunnel perk. The fact it got nerfed hard could tie into why tunnelling is more common now.
3) A fresh kick for killers, but survivors are now facing more of the same as they were before (tunnelling and camping). The perks may have changed but the gameplay hasn't.
4) This is the same as your first point.
I don't feel that solo queue players can afford to experiment and be creative in this update if they want to survive. No one wants to be tunnelled out of the game in five minutes. Rather than add freedom to survivor builds, I feel they are being restricted even more. But it's down to the player themselves if they want to run what I've said or whatever else. That's always been the case. Not everyone ran Dead Hard, not everyone is going to run OtR and will run perks like Hope instead. But they will be punished for it in most games.
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@TrustyJoat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075213#Comment_3075213
No. People shouldn't make posts about uninstalling if they want to be coddled. Ignoring the part where they claim to "love to run off meta perks", all they did was complain about the QoL changes. And again, lets remember that these changes haven't even been live for a day yet. Solo queue is rough? No ######### Sherlock.
They even laid out their point simply: "What I'm trying to get at is that I feel as though the update has changed nothing at all for the better from the survivor perspective." Nothing has been changed for the better? How about no longer being trapped in a boring second chance meta and being rewarded for just holding W for an entire chase? Now good players get rewarded for actually being able to loop and use tiles correctly. Of course bad survivors are going to complain that nothing changed for the better.
I know this is a few days late but I saw this just now and feel obligated to respond. I am not complaining about the killer QoL changes. I think all things considered the changes are fully justified and not overkill at all because, as I stated, too many killers were getting easily genrushed. My problem, if you'd read my post properly, is that the killers in my games were taking advantage of these changes to tunnel and camp harder than before, when the purpose behind the changes was to instead discourage tunnelling and camping by providing more time for the killer to chase/patrol instead of getting genrushed. It was an incredibly offputting experience and killed the hope I had that my experience as a survivor would change for the better, because I was experiencing this a lot already.
Yes, solo queue was already bad before the update. Amazingly, it's now even worse than before. The only QoL change that solo queue players get is a 5 second BT that the killer knows you have and can be easily waited out. That doesn't discourage tunnelling. The one 'second chance' perk that did discourage it, DS, got nerfed so hard with a reduction to the stun time that it no longer seems worth running at all. And killers know this, so now they will be encouraged to tunnel even more because they know it is very unlikely that they get punished by it. Aside from this, survivors get nothing in terms of QoL changes, so really they got nothing at all. Would a base kit kindred really be that hard to implement? Or being able to see each other's loadouts before a game? Some attempt to bring the QoL of solo queue up a bit while the killer experience is improved tremendously?
Yes, the perk changes are nice and I am glad that BHVR are attempting to shake up the meta. It was very stale before. But with tunnelling and camping still being at the core of the game I feel like you cannot afford to run these new changed perks as a solo queue player. I have to run BT because the base kit BT is too insufficient to make an impact to counter camping or tunnelling. I have to run Kindred because I need to have some idea of what my teammates are doing, and coordination is essential now due to the increased gen times and shorter chases brought on by the QoL changes for killer (which, I must emphasise, I think are ultimately a good thing for the game!). I am strongly incentivised to run the new Off the Record as it is essentially the DS replacement. And then I'm left with a single perk slot, which'll have to go to an exhaustion perk to try and prolong chases. Essentially although survivors are presented with more options, they are really only able to run a few options if they want to survive in matches. This is something I was hoping would change. There is no way I'm going to run say Deja Vu or Pharmacy over BT and Kindred because they simply are not worth it in this new meta.
And I am a fan of Off-meta perks. My typical build is BT, Kindred, Balanced Landing and Diversion. There is nothing better in this game than tricking a killer with a pebble or if nothing else throwing one at them in the face of death.
With these points, I genuinely find it difficult to find a positive change for survivors in this update. Forget Dead Hard. That is probably one of the only survivor perk changes I am pleased with because they nerfed it from being ridiculously OP while still keeping it a viable choice for an exhaustion perk if you understood how to use the perk well. I have never relied on it or the perks that got nerfed in this update so in theory I should be unaffected. In chase I am not affected whatsoever. It is the killers I am facing and how they play that demoralised me to the point of uninstalling. I was already frustrated with the game and desperate for change. I feel as though this new meta has unfortunately only encouraged more of the same strategies used by killers. I shared my experience, I did not make a post screaming that "I am uninstalling! This game is ****! Killer OP!". I said that I was uninstalling and explained why politely and clearly and prompted people to give insight into how they were finding the game because I thought for a moment I may be going mad. But having looked at the forums I see my consensus is a common one (at least, on the forums). I don't need to be coddled. There was just no need for you to respond in the way you did.
TLDR: This new meta only encourages camping and tunnelling further while making solo queue matches even harder to do well in. I welcome the QoL changes - but it is the way that killers are using them to tunnel and camp even harder, knowing they are much more likely to not be punished for it, that frustrates me and drove me to uninstall after playing for five years (though I will probably be back). This meta in fact discourages survivors from experimenting with new builds as the few anti-tunnelling options available are needed more than ever, even though the QoL changes made should have discouraged this. While the killer experience is improved tremendously (as it should have been), the solo survivor experience is made even worse.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/345WBIVUM7YK/image.png
Help. Please make it stop!
Someone DC in loading screen so we didn't have to play this but still... just seeing this make me depressed.
That build is probably the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. Seems like DBD is back to being a horror game.
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@Marigoria said:
I understand the game is not easy right now for solo players, specially not with the amount of killers that are stacking slowdowns and camping/tunneling in the majority of games, but please stop giving up so early.
Since the update came out I think 90% of my matches have had at least one person suicide/disconnect at 4/5 gens, and gens taking so long to repair it's impossible to escape in a 3v1.
My escape rate right now is at easily 15-20% and it sure is not because of "dead hard" since I didn't even use it before the update, but because most of my games end up in a 3v1 at 4/5 gens or everyone just slugged at the same time.
It's ok to not like these changes and how tedious doing gens is right now, but take that into account before loading up into a game and ruining the last bit of it for everyone else who is still trying their best.
If you're not enjoying the game at the moment, don't play it. I don't understand why these people queue into matches they obviously don't want to play at all while dragging everyone else down with them. It really amplifies how horrible the solo survivor experience is at the moment. Nobody is forcing them to play. I don't get it.
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@toxik_survivor said:
Solo Q has always been the same. I would say low MMR solo q is really the only actuall disadvantage for solo survivors, but mid and high mmr solo q is not that mutch different before and after patch. Once you play the game so much you have a general idea of where people are and what they are doing. I've played solo q for 3,500k hours and maybe 500 hours of swf, and at this point the only disadvantage of solo q is not being able to communicate where hex totems are. Overall in higher to mid MMR you sont really need a mic because most of the time survivors have a general idea of what's going on and when and where to do things at certain times. The only thing that really makes this invalid is if the mmr system cucks you up and gives you a urban evading self caring nea when you are on the higher side of mmr.
Now people are going crazy on how bad solo q is after patch. I understand this because my experiences after patch is mostly just people not doing gens, but that's to expect right now. Thinking of sitting on a gen for 2 years is very unappealing and most survivors would want to do something else like try to use a perk, get chased, or do differnt objectives like totems chests or anything but gens. But that's just right now. In a moth or 2 gen rushing will be back and killers will start complaining about that again, but we armt going to get deep into that.
Along with gen times being increased people say solo q is terrible after patch because ds and dh were nerfed giving them no second chances (and the meta perks in general), but this teaches survivors not to rely on gen rush and no skill perks. Survivors were able to use these perks with not mutch skill and waste so mutch of the killers time. I'm not exactly blaming the survivors though because having the ability to use these perks just made things mutch easier and I would more blaim the devs for allowing for such a huge handicap in this game. That leads to people now not being able to rely on there second chance perks anymore and now it's coming out that the majority of people are very bad at looping and survivors just have to go through that stage of getting good at looping with no perks to help. Once people adapt things will go back to normal and this game will be heading in a very positive direction. (It has been for a while but it will be even more)
I'll break down for you why solo queue is now even worse than before. And no, it's not because survivors need to 'git gud'.
- With gens now taking even longer than before, this means that coordination and strategy are a must to ensure that the killer is occupied for an extended period of time while gens are still being completed. This is effectively impossible to do in solo queue. There is no base kit kindred. You have no idea what your teammates are running or doing, nor if they are capable of running the killer long enough for anything to get done. It is easy to make mistakes and the killer now has much more time to capitalise on said mistakes which can effectively end the match.
- Killers are guaranteed to have shorter and quicker chases, due to the buffs to pallet breaking, attack cooldown, bloodlust and the nerf to the distance a survivor can make upon being hit. This emphasises that gens need to be repaired and repaired quickly before the survivors start dying and become overwhelmed, and in solo queue this means you need multiple survivors on gens and coordinating efficient saves and chases. Essentially Killers get more room to make mistakes while survivors get far less. This room is amplified by the excellent gen slowdown now available.
- You would think the base kit BT buff would do wonders for solo queue, but as it turns a five second BT that the killer KNOWS you have can easily be waited out, preventing it from any impact bar from if you were getting facecamped and have a pallet two feet from you. This in fact encourages tunnelling and camping because now killers know survivors will (at present, anyway) not be running the perk BT as they technically have a built-in BT for free. DS being nerfed into the ground for no apparent reason (the endgame bit was justified, the rest was not) only encourages tunnelling further and a solo queue team will have little chance of taking the heat off of the tunnelled survivor.
- Camping is further encouraged due to the increased gen times and may in fact reward killers now, especially against a solo queue team that may not be able to coordinate rushing gens.
- The gen slowdown available is stronger against solo queue teams. It is harder to be healed by your teammates in solo queue (that's if they even want to heal you), meaning Thana stacks are more consistent. Call of Brine is particularly good as you have no way of informing your team that the gen you got run off has been kicked, meaning it is likely to regress a fair amount if not all of its progression.
- Nurse got pseudo-buffed by this update rather than nerfed, and she already kicks the ass out of every solo queue team in existence (if they're competent). Have fun being slugged on the floor at five gens and not being able to do a thing about it (my experience for most of my first day of playing post-update).
TLDR: Killers are given much more room to make mistakes while survivors are hardly given any, and solo queue teams are very likely to mess up at some point and be unable to recover. Camping and tunnelling is encouraged even more. Gen slowdown is more impactful against solo teams. Nurse is Nurse.
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Green herbs that you can leave around the map once made that when consumed while injured fill a certain percentage of your healing bar. You could craft multiple of these and stash them away in a hidden spot for a sneaky full heal in the late game.
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Laurie's mouth is slightly open on the survivor menu too, you can see her teeth.
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I've uninstalled the game for now which is probably a bit drastic. I'd sit on the game for a bit and wait to see if the devs put through any changes. I could easily see the DS stun time being reverted back to five seconds. Thana could get reverted too. Wait and see.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074725#Comment_3074725
Survivors aren't suppose to have all the information in the world. Swf has it but people seem to forget that swf shouldn't be the standard.
SWF isn't going anywhere. At this point it may as well be the standard. And knowing where the other survivors are only when someone is on a hook is hardly all the information in the world. It's a necessary QoL change.