LittleBigSunset
LittleBigSunset
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- LittleBigSunset
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I don't know, man. I swear, the amount of times in solo queue I have banked on a Bill running BT only to see him being running both Unbreakable and Left Behind instead in the post-game screen has made my eyes roll into the back of my head.
Regarding the rest of your post, I understand you but because you are free to run any build on any survivor it's difficult to view survivors as anything beyond skins and their 'lore' personalities. I'm fine with it staying that way, to be honest. Passives won't work because there will inevitably be one that's better than the others (eg for Meg faster run speed) and as a result you will experience a much smaller variety of survivors. And using that survivor as a basis for what perks they are going to run is unreliable at best (see above).
A better visual guide would be to be able to view your team's loadouts while you're loading into a match or in the in-game lobby. I believe DBD Mobile has this feature to some extent (I may be misremembering)? It would help significantly with perks that rely on your team coordinating with them for them to be effective eg: allowing me to get the save because I'm running Deliverance or leaving me slugged because you know I can get myself up with Unbreakable.
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Considering towards the end of RE5 Wesker goes from his calm, overconfident self towards someone far more unhinged/angrier as Chris foils his plans (with Wesker even infecting HIMSELF with Ouroburos) I was really hoping the Blighted skin would reflect this turn in behaviour for Wesker in some way. Instead it looks as though he got rugby tackled by the Blight and that's it. No physical changes or changes in demeanour. His hair is just slightly dishevelled and he's covered a bit in the Blighted stuff. Missed potential for sure.
For context, this is an example of what Wesker looks like at the end of RE5. I was absolutely expecting the Blighted skin to have this sort of manic look.
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While this is an infinitely more balanced concept I don't like the idea of running a Boon perk where you yourself get no tangible benefit. It's directly down to your team and how they play/choose to come to you in the Boon that determines whether or not you get ANY value at all from this version of CoH. All of the other boons in the game offer the Booner (lol) a benefit as soon as they boon the totem.
I would prefer some sort of cap on how much healing the boon can do before it becomes snuffed automatically. The problem with CoH is that it provides INFINITE healing that the killer will usually be unable to stop without throwing the game to some degree. It outclasses the other boons in terms of value by a mile. If there was some way to cap that value or make it so the perk wasn't just mindlessly strong, it would be much less controversial as a perk.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222685#Comment_3222685
Omg wait though since Parallel Universes are canon why not just give us an entire chapter with Ji-Woon Hak as the surivocr and Yun-Jin Lee as the killer
I'd genuinely eat that the ######### up
I would too for my favourite survivors. Laurie is licensed so obviously off the table but I reckon a killer Kate would be terrifying. I keep getting ideas in my head that I've got to start writing down!
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Yes, if it was done right.
Say for instance, a female Deathslinger. I wouldn't be a fan of just an outright gender swap, but if there was a legendary skin for a female member of the Hellshire Gang that Caleb rode with, I would snap it up immediately. Or instead of a female Trickster, a alternate universe Yun-Jin where she is the killer and helped cover up Ji-woon's murders without any semblance of conscience. Even a female Ghostface, where the killer is an obsessed fan attempting to recreate the Ghostface murders.
I guess I mean if the skins were incorporated into the lore of the game and, well, made sense. A gender swap just for the sake of it would feel tasteless and a cheap attempt to get players to pour out Cells.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222493#Comment_3222493
There's a couple of key differences between the Rift and time-limited skins like they were announced:
1- The Rift is available for way longer than the time-limited skins that they announced, so it's easier to complete it even if you can't play for a certain period (seriously, I managed to complete the second Rift in a month when I had to move)
2- Completing the Rift comes with a sense of achievement, since you need to "work" for it, whereas the time-limited skins are just..throw money at something and gg
3- Completing the Rift refunds you all the Cells you used for it, and even if you don't complete it, you get some of them back at least
4- If you're a "free player" you still have something to gain from the Rift, since it has a free track
Time-limited skins like they were announced are just..bad for the community, potentially dangerous for the game and just a negative thing altogether
1) True, but the Rift is still a decent grind if you do not play the game regularly. It's been improved for the most part though (ironically the earlier Rifts were the ones I found harder to complete while you found them easier regardless). My critique of the Rift is more of battle passes in general. I think this game has a not too grindy battle pass compared to other games like COD or now Overwatch 2. I so so wish old battle passes could be revisited though and progressed at any point.
2) True, to a point. The Rift tiers can be bought with Cells, which defeats the whole point of showing off Rift rewards to show your dedication to the game. I have seen people with Tier 70 tier rewards within the first few days of a Rift dropping because they were able to buy out the whole Rift with Cells. It also reinforces my point of FOMO, BHVR knows some players will buy out the Rift with a ridiculous amount of Cells if they feel they cannot complete the Rift in time because of the fact that none of the cosmetics are guaranteed to come back, if ever.
3) True. This has been the main reason for buying Rifts that typically don't interest me. I know I'm going to complete the Rift anyway so I have nothing to lose.
4) Again, true, but these 'rewards' are usually lackluster at best and are very tame compared to the paid track rewards. In fact I remember on some Rifts that the free track would reward you part of an outfit, say the head, while the torso and legs were locked behind the paid track. So the free rewards were in some cases being used to incentivise you to buy the paid track so that you could complete an outfit. Which rubs me wrong, to be honest.
They are largely different, but the concept is still the same. The Rift is all about limited-time cosmetics and FOMO. But because it mixes in gameplay and isn't so hard to complete while refunding your spent Cells, the community has accepted it as part of the game. Now BHVR are trying to see if they can push the boat out further. Hopefully they fail, because the announced cosmetics leave a very bitter taste in my mouth.
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@Nihlus said:
The level of entitlement in this community never ceases to amaze me. "Everyone should be able to get everything!" I disagree. I'd prefer if there were ways to earn them than just buy them, but I completely disagree with this entire concept that exclusive, rare, or even unique items are bad.
How would you argue that this practice of 'limited-time' cosmetics is good for the game? How is it beneficial to the playerbase to have cosmetics that are not only gated off behind a paywall, not in-game investment, but a paywall that is only around for a few weeks before the item is gone for good?
The only reason this practice is being added is to pressure more people into going through that paywall for cosmetics because of FOMO. It doesn't make the items exclusive or unique or add any sense of achievement to those cosmetics. It just means that you caved and bought an outfit because otherwise you wouldn't be able to buy it at all in a few weeks.
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We've already had 'time-limited' cosmetics in the form of Rift cosmetics and the playerbase have been fine with them since the Rift got added (even though it is hard to grind if you don't play the game much and/or have a busy schedule). BHVR are just casting the net wider to see what else they can get away with - Rifts got accepted without community backlash because battle passes in games have become 'the norm'. Now they're trying to integrate even more limited time cosmetics into events in the hopes that the community accept it as the new 'norm'.
I hate this rubbish in games. It's exploitative through FOMO, is generally greedy, screws over new players who miss out on the content, and is literally impossible to argue that it is player-friendly or benefits the game in ANY way. The only benefit this practice has is bringing in BHVR more money, which considering how monetised the game is already (for a game that is not FTP as well) is ridiculous, outfits are overpriced etc.
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Upvoted for "4 man SWF with knives".
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This isn't serious, right?
Also what do you mean by "(specifically vs killer)"? Is there an alternative survivor experience I am missing out on? Are there games where the survivors have to fight each other instead like a WWE PPV?
The more I read and think about what you've said, the more questions I have.
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Players like this ruin the game for everyone else. No question. If only the [REDACTED]s that played like this put the time and effort they spend on trying to upset other people into instead trying to be the positive change I guarantee the game's playerbase would be much happier and healthier as a whole. But nope. Too much to ask for apparently.
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@psionic said:
I've been playing since 2020 and honestly, despite some tweaks here and there, the game is basically the same.
So why I used to enjoy so much in the past and now everything seems so dull to the point that I start to see only problems rather enjoy what's happening?
Because of course after more than 3000 hours playing this game daily my brain can't milk more endorphin. That's it. I'm kind of tired of the game and you're probably too.
TLDR: You don't enjoy the game bacause of yourself.
I feel like I could partly attribute my feelings towards the game now to burnout but mainly I dislike playing the game now because of how far it's shifted from the game I fell in love with. I don't regard it as a game that I can now play casually for a good scare and some exciting chases now and then. Now it feels like if I don't go in bringing my A game I just lose and lose badly, especially as a solo player. It's a repetitive cycle on unfun games where the loss is either rubbed in my face by my opponents and/or I lose by an enormous margin with very little chance of having a comeback in the match. Matches where the game could go either way are too rare nowadays. Either you win massively or lose massively. It just isn't fun. Not to mention that the gameplay cycle is VERY repetitive, with very little new mechanics added to the game aside from Boons over the game's life cycle.
There are certainly a range of factors for me that contribute to this shift. The unreliable MMR system for one. Allowing killers like Blight and Nurse to run rampant while leaving weaker killers disregarded in terms of balance completely is another. Solo queue players failing to recieve essential QoL updates while SWF continues to be unaffected also (although the BT addition was more than welcomed). This is not to mention that I feel as though the devs are out of touch with their community. I understand that they have a lot of mindless criticism to wade through, but the fact that the next proposed change is for moris that takes charm out of the game baffles me. Nobody asked for these proposed changes. Yet changes that players continue to ask for, such as solo queue information, map redesigns and for weaker killers to be buffed go seemingly ignored. There are perks such as Ruin and DS that were left absolutely gutted with no explanation as to why they were. We have had several PTBs where in spite of enormously negative feedback changes have still gone through unchanged (looking at you, Boil Over). It's tiring to see and infers that the developers are out of touch with their own game. I'm sure they have the best intentions, but some of their actions are confusing at best with little communication outside of infrequent developer updates to explain their thought processes.
And when you come to look at the DBD forums they are filled with posts complaining and negativity (understandably so, to a point). I just can't associate the game with fun anymore. It is draining to play and/or think about. I would much rather invest my free time in something enjoyable that doesn't leave me frustrated and complaining at the end of most games. And it's a shame because I love the game at it's heart. The art, lore, killer designs and so on are incredible. I love the characters put into the game. I love that I can play as Jill Valentine and face off against a harpoon gun cowboy or have Laurie verse off against Michael Myers while she throws pebbles at him. But the gameplay loop, concerning balance decisions, toxic community and unreliable communication from the developers spoils this for me to the point I can't be bothered to play.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant. I think you're correct to an extent. But I think most players upset with the game are growing tired over the above mentioned issues being left unaddressed for longer and longer periods of time. That and the nature of the game has shifted considerably to the point it is no longer the game they fell in love with. And I am unsure if BHVR can ever recapture that spark again.
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We're seeing other people.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
It would be awesome if we could get a Dante (preferably from DMC3 as it's my favorite) skin for Leon, as they're both Capcom characters and Devil May Cry was originally pitched in as Resident Evil 4 (of course in a very different form).
Although I guess it would not make any sense for Dante to be so scared of the Killers.
A Lady Skin for Jill or Ada would also be pretty awesome.
Another Legendary I'd like to see is Maria for Cheryl, very memorable character. I'm kind of surprised she has not been added along with James.
For non-Legendaries I'd like to see Yui with a sukeban inspired outfit (Japanese delinquent girls with long skirts) or a Bosozoku inspired outfit (Japanese motorcycle gangs) with a long coat or something. Not quite loving the current available skins(sorry).
Post your ideas and wishes below!
An older Laurie from the more recent Halloween films would be an awesome skin. If we had to go full legendary a Loomis skin would also be, well, legendary.
Since the majority of RE characters have been released as legendaries already it's a bit harder to come up with one here. However when I heard we were getting a Legion RE legendary I immediately thought of this from RE5:
I couldn't find a better picture but she's one of the main antagonists of the game and her bird lady outfit suited Legion's aesthetic of running and stabbing perfectly. I was convinced we were getting it to be honest. Certainly wasn't expecting HUNK who sticks out like a sore thumb unfortunately. She would've fit in perfectly alongside Wesker.
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I think the perk was already fairly strong when it gave you a maximum 40% CD buff. Then they buffed it to 50% with the basekit changes AND reduced the distance a survivor could get upon being hit by a fair margin. Now I feel it's almost unreasonably strong in how much quicker it can help you end chases all in exchange for just hitting survivors. Not to mention that hitting the Obsession can be easily negated if the killer has a special attack ability, meaning on particular killers they can keep their stacks for the rest of the game.
You could knock it back down to 40% with a max of six stacks and it would still be perfectly viable. That's how it was pre-buff and without the added bonus of survivors making less distance upon being hit. It would still be a buff to the pre midchapter version, just a less powerful one. So yeah, I think it needs a nerf, if not a very subtle one.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200064#Comment_3200064
Of the ones i have fleshed out, i think my personal favourites are the E.M.M.I concept i made a while back, and the Shambler concept i finished a few weeks ago
links below if you feel like reading through them
I'll give those a look through later, thanks!
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200777#Comment_3200777
The base change is fine but unbreakable is now as strong as a boon that can't be snuffed that's kinda of crazy
I reached the same conclusion upon realising Unbreakable could stack with it and give you an infinite 22 second pick yourself up. That would make slugging achieve almost no purpose whatsoever. The base time of 45 seconds I think is ok.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200777#Comment_3200777
Except that's not how it goes. That survivor is guaranteed gonna be injured if they get around the pallet, or if they weren't around when he first got downed then the killer could pick, plus worse case scenario you get pressure from people getting off of gens.
"after a long time" it's 45 seconds. 22.5 with UB. Plus no other survivor is gonna pick up the slug anymore because why would they when everyone has permanent UB? So no more pressure from a slug.
"Just smack them back down 4Head" no. The pallet will get predropped and soul guard exists. Plus exhaustion perks would have recovered by then.
Doesn't matter if they become injured, as they only need to stay near the pallet instead of trying to drop on the right side current update. Try to commit to him? the cycle repeats (another thing pushing people to play nurse blight etc). A good team will always have 1 on a gen when doing this strat.
The reason this change tilts me so much is that instead of nerfing the reason slugging was easy for some killers (exposed nurse, ring blight etc) they decide to make survivors 3rd best perk basekit, screwing over every other killer while barely touching the viability of the previously mentioned #########.
45 seconds is a long time. That's half a gen. And with Unbreakable that just becomes what an Unbreakable recovery is at the moment. You're giving up a perk slot on the basis that you're going to get slugged and will need to get up quickly and this is while the killer KNOWS you can get up yourself. So therefore by default the perk is weaker because the chances of you getting to use it are slimmer because the killer now has to be much warier about leaving people slugged. But it could stand to be adjusted. A one time use maybe and then it deactivates and you recover at the normal rate. 20 seconds is too short to be in the game by default. But at the same time I don't want yet another perk that gets gutted and is never used again.
As for the rest, if you have someone slugged under a pallet and another preventing you from picking up, that is still pressure. That's two people that aren't doing gens. And if that preventing survivor persists you can injure them and chase them off from the pallet. You don't need to commit to them. Or if they try to loop you around it get them to drop the pallet and then you can pick up no issue. All of that is doable in 45 seconds. If the slugged dude gets up, you go for the survivor you've injured if you're worried about Soul Guard (which I think is more than balanced IF you recover at the normal speed). If that slugged survivor predrops the pallet, then that's a pallet they can no longer use for the rest of the game.
This is all again in theory. What I'm saying here could work out very differently in-game. But at the moment all we can do is theorise. I think that the base kit change is fine. It still allows slugging to create pressure but not for it to snowball, which is what killers like Blight and Nurse are so good at doing and can can cause games to end very quickly. Typical killers won't be affected by this change. You can slug a survivor, take the time to run someone off a gen or get a free slap/gen kick/whatever, and then return to hook them. It's perfectly reasonable for a killer to be able to do that in a 45 second window which is why I said it was a long time. It is for doing things that would require you to slug someone. It isn't if you want to leave them slugged for ages and create a snowball effect of multiple slugged survivors. And considering the Mori feature BHVR are planning to implement, this change is ESSENTIAL. I am not going to play matches where the killer's sole strategy is to slug everyone so they can end the game as fast as possible. That would be very unhealthy for the game and send the Forums into an even larger frenzy than they are now.
Just wait and see on the PTB. The changes aren't live yet. And if the community are vocal enough then they won't go through (Clueless). I'd like to think the devs at least learned from the whole Boil Over debacle.
TLDR; Base kit the change is fine. Unbreakable being an infinite use perk and other anti-slug perks tip the change into dangerous territory. Regardless, the change is needed for the proposed Mori rework because if it didn't exist killers would be strongly incentivised to run full hard slug builds to end the game as quickly as possible, as getting everyone on the floor now results in an instant win. Wait for the PTB and then draw your conclusions and if the community still has the same consensus then hopefully the changes will be scrapped. Until then wait and see.
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I feel like people are underestimating how long 45 seconds is.
In the present your scenario means that the slugged survivor is a 1 tap heal (because they've had long enough to recover) under that pallet. Meaning that the person distracting you can either throw the pallet and heal them on the other side or someone else comes in to get the heal. Either way that person on the floor is getting up when you are against competent survivors who are trying for pallet saves. All this PTB change does is make it so the survivor can get up themselves after a long time, but even then, what's stopping you from smacking them back down again? Or you could chase the other survivors off and injure them to make a pallet save much riskier, and you're given the time to do this with the 45 second timer. And in that case, you've got basically the whole team surrounding a pallet, which is brilliant pressure for the killer.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it plays out much worse in the actual game than it does on paper. But I think people are overreacting.
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@OGSull said:
I've been grinding non-stop with one of my my friends and I'm finally p100 with Ash. I've spent easily over 100 million on him with thousands of items. I've been an Ash main ever since I started playing in 2019, so I figured I would have to get this on him. Anyways I was wondering if there was anyone else who had p100 on Ash or if I'm just a lone wolf. I know there's not too many Ash mains out there, but I can't be the only one right? Anyways I plan to make a video on this in the near future, so please let me know.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were the only one. I very very rarely encounter Ashes nowadays. I'd go jump in the shower to celebrate.
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@dugman said:
I’d love to see a Medusa who inflicts conditions over time on survivors who have her in their field of view. So the longer you have her in sight it builds up a token timer that gives you negative conditions like Blindness, Hindered, Incapacitated, and Exposed, for instance, with the more severe conditions happening the more tokens it builds up. Not looking at Medusa for a bit allows the timer to regress back down. I think this would trying to run away or do gens while actively being afraid to even look at the Medusa would be pretty tense and fun for the survivors. 🙂 She would also probably need a secondary activated effect tied to her Power button to round her out, otherwise playing her might be a little too basic for the killer player, but there’s lots of good possibilities for that.
To go along with Medusa, her opposing survivor would be Perseus, the Greek hero who fought her and the Minotaur. And Medusa’s map could be a cavern or garden or beach littered with the statues of her victims and random animals and things.
Maybe her active ability is tied to snakes in some way? She could either throw them at survivors by plucking them out of her hair or let them scurry off towards gens etc. And if they bite the survivors they become afflicted with something where the only way to cure it is to look directly at Medusa? I'm not sure but there's a lot of possibilites with your idea. She'd screw me over big time because I rely on looking back at the killer while I'm in chase an awful lot. Love it!
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@Huge_Bush said:
A Bush trap killer.
It can lay bushes down that can trap survivors for 20 seconds.
The bushes transform depending on the map. If it’s indoors like RPD, it’ll take the form of chairs and tables.
Secondary ability is to spawn two small bush minions that chase a survivor for 40 seconds. They despawn if killer doesn’t break chase. if they catch the survivor, they entangle them and prevent movement for 30 seconds.
Mori- Bush impales the Survivor with its thorny roots and then consumes their body.
So the bushes kind of work like objects from say Prop Hunt? Could you choose what form they take to try and make them blend into the map eg: on Coldwind you put a hay bale next to a loop? Because that's cool as hell.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
I have several ideas that often just float around in my head, killers that get stronger as gens get done, killers based around the obsession mechanic, killers that generate traps whenever they m1 a survivor, that sort of thing
the issue being that i have a lot of ideas and end up never having time to really flesh them out
Me too. I've had a few concepts floating around in my head but I never get the motivation to write anything down or as you say flesh out.
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When I heard we were getting another Resident Evil chapter I thought for a moment we could get something along the lines of this from Village. The design is absolutely terrifying. Anything like this would have made hiding in lockers again like I did when I first started out as a baby survivor.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
Not an original Killer, but I would love to see The Tall Man from the Phantasm movies. First off, a variation on the Phantasm theme would make phenomenal chase music.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ieQxm_M2I
He has torture device orbs that would make a great mori.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O6RTBNI36CB5/image.png
He also has evil dwarves, is generally creepy as hell, and there hasn't been a Phantasm movie in ages so the license probably wouldn't even be that much.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AGD7YGRHMMKK/image.png
He'd also compete with Plague for tallest killer. It's win-win!
But that's cheating I know, you said original. So I agree with the guy above that said werewolf.
I only said original as for the most part potential licenses that could be added to the game have already been covered and discussed by others. But I've never heard of these films. That theme would make for some banger chase music if given to the dev team and his aesthetic is creepy as all hell. I love it!
And the torture ball things could make for an interesting killer power.
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@HeehoRacketeer said:
Giant Spider killer.
Primary power is a quick forward leap attack, breaking pallets that are impacted and injuring survivors that are hit (pretty much Demo's Shred but with a bit of Victor's Pounce for extra verticality, maybe useful for jumping over pallets and "small" obstacles)
Alt power uses tokens to leave behind web traps on the ground, on walls, or between two close walls (like doorways or pallet zones). Survivors who come into contact with a web trap are put into a short animation of them removing the web in a fast panic and are applied hindered for a short time.
I have to admit the idea of being chased by a giant spider would full on reignite the horror aspect of the game for me. The abilities sound interesting and help to add to the scare factor. Cool!
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I agree. I'm sick of getting Pigs every game and having my head explode. She is too OP.
What if instead of the Pig getting to put RBTs on survivors, she starts with one on her head herself? It's up to her to 'play a game' and find the right key in the fifteen different Jigsaw Boxes located across the map (I added more boxes because she moves faster than survivors, another glaring issue with her right now). If her head explodes, the survivors insta-win and recieve 3 million bloodpoints for their efforts.
It's a clever way to nerf Pig AND lore-friendly!
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@Toaster427 said:
We've all see a recent bandwagon of these streamers protesting DBD for a supposed cheater epidemic.
I'm sorry, but this isn't affecting the community as a whole. A recent poll on Reddit showed that a overwhelming majority have not seen an increase in cheaters and most people have only seen 1 or 2 cheaters in thousands of hours of gameplay.
You all have been making some great improvements in the last few years, please keep going and don't get distracted by the few who are abusing their influence for their own personal gain. Please do what benefits the entire community, not the 1%.
Respectfully, this post is sus
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197259#Comment_3197259
"But I feel the devs are owed a tiny amount of credit in that this is a problem they cannot solve outright."
I disagree.
Because it's one thing to not be able to physically stop someone from playing to expressly ruin another's fun, but it's another to not work on disincentivising these tactics, and it's yet another to take as many steps as they do to incentivise them instead.
They added gen time, cut DS by 40%, made OTR incompatible with the one thing they did give survivors to combat this nonsense, and when they came up with a perk that could actually hardcore damage camping, they neutered it before it could get out of PTB, specifically on its ability to counter camping!
They're encouraging camping and tunnelling. That's a step worse than not being able to stop people from actively choosing to ruin the game.
Which, by the by, they could also rule a reportable offense.
Camping already has a really strong disincentive. When you camp a survivor you are completely ignoring the other three and are liable to lose the remaining gens. It's a game losing play if the survivors don't play into it. And Reassurance, even in it's nerfed state, gives that camped survivor an extra 30 seconds on the hook. That's an effect that isn't to be sneezed at and gives the hooked survivor more of a chance of being saved even while the team focuses gens. It's still a disincentive, just not one that's as obviously strong.
Gen times were increased because killers felt gens were being completed too quickly, not to strengthen camping. It's a knock on effect in that it happens to benefit camping by giving the killer more time to camp a survivor out. But literally anything that the devs add that makes the gates take longer for the survivors to power will benefit camping. It's difficult to design around because of that.
I agree on DS. I have no idea why they gutted the stun time. It was good the way it was.
OtR is solid for killers that decide to wait out your BT or if you manage to put a good amount of distance from them off the hook but they still target you. It's perfectly viable for anti-tunnelling. Reassurance still counters camping but requires your whole team to run the perk to get a similar duration to the PTB version. On it's own it can give a camped survivor an extra 30 seconds for each hook stage. That's an extra whole minute if they are camped from first to death hook. That's incredibly strong for a single perk slot and makes a save much more possible while still allowing your team to prioritise gens.
And as much as I hate to say it, camping and tunnelling are viable strategies. They suck for the person involved big time but can be used as a means to regain pressure or secure a kill. But it's widely argued as to when these strategies are needed or even needed at all in some games. If you've lost a few gens and there is a survivor on death hook you may tunnel them out so as to make the remaining gens easier to defend. Or if you manage to hook a survivor in your 3 gen you'll camp them because you have nowhere else to be as a killer. Making them reportable just makes the killer experience worse. With all the people that say that you tunnel and camp when they don't know the actual meaning of the words, can you imagine how many reports killers would get on a daily basis? Killers would get driven off the game in droves if they were paranoid of getting reported every game.
My problem is when the killer does camp or tunnel when they obviously don't need to. Like this Bubba, four gens left, two hooks, game is still in his favor and he camps and throws any pressure he could have out the window. Just because he wants the Steve to not have fun. That's the distinction between killers who camp/tunnel because they have to swing the game versus killers that do it to ruin your experience. If it is understandable why they are doing it it becomes a lot harder to label the action as toxic.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196715#Comment_3196715
But this is where you're making a mistake: You're talking about STOPPING the killer from camping/tunnelling. In your previous post, you were talking about 'disincentivising'. They're different things. Any time people talk about the latter, the former gets argued against.
Reassurance should go back to its pre-nerf state. DS can be 10 seconds without risk. You can amp up the baseline.
The problem with Camping/Tunnelling is that these tactics are incredibly easy to employ by the killers, and really hard to counterplay for the survivors. If these tactics just get weakened, that's a disincentive. Yes, there will still be trolls. But at least people don't resort to them as cheap strats that solo play has little to no counter to.
Disincentivising them is super easy and has been done in the past. But these 'disincentives' just got nerfed to crap.
My point is that disincentives don't work if the killer doesn't care about losing. Which in most cases like the Bubba here they don't. He hits on hook, facecamps and ignores the other survivors letting them do gens. That's an almost guaranteed loss. The disincentives put in place are to make it so such an action IS potentially game losing, not game winning, but if the killer isn't fussed about winning they have no effect. For some players ruining another person's experience is for them a win eg: Pigs who sat in front of boxes from the get go on the off chance that one person is unable to get their trap off and dies. They lose, but enjoy the fact they ensured one person couldn't escape because it's 'funny'.
In these cases toxic behaviour can't be discouraged. The only solution is to stop it outright but that's an impossible solution without royally screwing up the gameplay balance (making unhooked survivors invincible for instance could easily be abused by competent SWFs).
I don't mean to argue. We're both coming from the same place. But I feel the devs are owed a tiny amount of credit in that this is a problem they cannot solve outright. It is down to the players themselves to decide that playing through a match normally is more fun than throwing it just for the sake of ruining one person's experience. If the killer does care about winning then by all means disincentives can be effective. The ten second base kit BT has already done me wonders in reducing tunnelling, and although it does not stop it completely it makes tunnelling a much more punishing play if the tunnelled survivor is competent in chase. DS should be reverted to five seconds as it is too situational to warrant being weak if you manage to get use out of it. OtR is a solid anti-tunnelling choice. There are viable disincentives available that can make committing to a tunnel game losing for the killer. But if they don't care about losing, these disincentives don't work. But that's out of the developer's hands.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196053#Comment_3196053
"While I sympathise with you and agree that killers like this can be a massive killjoy, there isn't really anything the devs can do to discourage it."
They can. In fact, they did, and then killers whinged about it and it was nerfed specifically in its ability to discourage camping.
It's not that the devs can't do anything about it, it's that the devs can't do anything about it without the forums flooding with a mixture of "I suck too much to get kills any other way" and "Muh valid tactic".
Put PTB Reassurance aside, what can the devs do to stop the killer from hitting you on hook, facecamping you and tunnelling you out of the game if they feel like it? One perk shouldn't be the solution to the whole camping debacle, and even if it punishes camping as I've said these killers don't care if they're punished for it. Even if that survivor never hits struggle they are still on the hook, bored out of their mind and almost guaranteed to die. And that's these killers want, for you to have a bad experience and get frustrated.
BT, OtR, DS etc. are disincentives to tunnel because they guarantee you'll have a harder time catching that unhooked survivor. But if the killer doesn't care that the other people are doing gens in the meantime and that they could throw the game, what's stopping them from continuing to play the way they are? It is out of the developers' hands nigh making unhooked survivors invincible which could easily be abused in standard games. There just isn't a solution. It's down to the players individually to decide whether or not they want to be dicks.
If the killer does want to win then there are measures of discouragement such as the perks I've listed above. And yet this behaviour continues to happen. And that's because these killers don't care about winning.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196115#Comment_3196115
Well maybe i was 30% joking. I was having trouble quitting, as well.
Haha well good on you for getting out while you can. It's scary to think that the 'haha funny but actually miserable loop pallet hook game' can actually develop into something like an addiction. I don't think I even really noticed that I was 'addicted' until I actually tried to go without playing the game for a while recently. Not that I think it's anything severe. There are factors outside the game such as friends and the streaming community I have which keeps me invested. I cut out DBD I kind of cut them out too because DBD is how I interact with them.
But still. For something that brings me such regular displeasure it's weird I still feel obligated to play. But I think right now I'm nearing the light at the end of the tunnel. That obligation is starting to wain. Been replaying Resident Evil of all things and it's so much more chilled out. I have like an enormous backlog of single player games that I need to get through.
Maybe I'll make a start on them soon.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196112#Comment_3196112
I'm not joking. This game is addictive.
Oh.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196101#Comment_3196101
Withdrawal takes around 7-14 days. Then it becomes an interesting spectacle.
You joke but my relationship with this game may genuinely be something akin to addiction. I just can't seem to put it down even though most of the time my mind is screaming that I'd be having more fun doing something else. Longest break I've ever taken was about a month but that was eons ago. The last time I tried to give it up (the post I was referring to) I went only a week. Something's off.
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I envy you for getting out at 2k hours. I've sunk more than 5k hours into DBD and can't seem to give it up, even when more than half the games I play leave a bitter taste in my mouth. I don't play it anywhere near as regularly as I used to though.
I even made a post quite similar to yours around the drop of the mid-chapter update. Got the same kind of boring responses too (ok, bye, who cares lmao). Ignore them. You've got every right to express your opinion on the state of the game (on the DBD forum, no less) and highlighting that it's caused you to quit can help to bring attention to the problem. There's a reason why posts like these seem to get so much attention.
Breaks always do me good when a game seems to burn me out. Give the game a try again when the next update drops or later. Maybe then it'll have the same spark that drew you into the game in the first place. Or you could give it up altogether and probably save yourself any future trouble. All the best anyway.
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While I sympathise with you and agree that killers like this can be a massive killjoy, there isn't really anything the devs can do to discourage it. If a player wants to be toxic they will be, and it turns out that killer is by far a better role for ruining your opponent's experience. Case in point, this Bubba. These players don't do it for points or pips, they do it to piss the other side off because either they themselves are pissed off or they're sad enough to want to ruin someone else's fun just for the sake of it and to get potential salt (posts like this for example - not that I don't agree with what you're saying).
So if the toxic player isn't being toxic for the sake of points/pips what can the devs do to discourage it? This Bubba clearly didn't care that he could potentially throw the game by camping and solely focusing you. To him the victory was in making sure you didn't get to do anything fun. You could throw in some sort of gameplay measure to prevent hard camping eg: Bubba's saw overheats close to the hook but these measures go into murky waters and could stand to be abused by competent survivors ie: the PTB version of Reassurance. I myself don't see a solution. BHVR can't police their playerbase beyond obvious game rule violations such as hacking. And as it does technically get punished (while you are being tunnelled everyone else is free to do gens) I can't see them taking any steps to discourage toxic behaviour.
But still, it sucks. Only yesterday did I witness a game against a Nurse where my friend and his team were slugged and left to bleed out on the floor for no reason. Games like that can absolutely kill any incentive to play. I wish you better luck with future games because when you get a non-toxic fun match for both sides that is where the game shines.
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Only P14 for Laurie and P9 for Slinger. I have no idea how some people have prestiges that are 50+ right now. If I played the game that much my head would explode. Being the world's only P50+ Laurie would give me decent bragging rights though (seriously, where are the other Laurie mains????!??!?).
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Silent Hill or Stranger Things. Not necessarily related to the contents of the chapters but that was when I enjoyed the game the most. Nowadays I'm much more spiteful towards the game.
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We need to make sure this dude never plays the Resident Evil 2 Remake. Otherwise he's going to explode.
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Not an item, but I made the mistake of burning a Fifth Year Anniversary cake for a solo queue game once. Had a good feeling about the game and wanted to spread the bloodpoint cheer. What could go wrong?
Proceeded to get a facecamping Bubba who found me within the first fifteen seconds, downed me straight away because I'm a tit and then facecamp me.
When I died I made 1 grand (2 if you count the cake!). Never again.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3176951#Comment_3176951
Remove the ability to see the Killer's aura and maybe base-kit Kindred would be workable. Still a pretty big buff for survivors.
It's a buff that would address the most pressing problem of solo queue right now which is a lack of information on what your team is doing. Kindred is absolutely essential at the moment in solo play. When I don't run it I'm liable to hit struggle because no one knows if anyone is going for the save and/or what the rest of the team are doing. It's also particularly annoying when I run halfway across the map to get a save only to see someone else get to it right before me and mean I've wasted time I could be doing a gen. It's already quite difficult to coordinate any kind of play as a solo player. Having a form of base kit Kindred would mean that at the very least plays could be coordinated when they matter the most - when someone is on the hook.
The killer aura can be scrapped 100% and maybe left to the perk version of Kindred, that's never been the reason why I've used the perk. All it would mean is saves can be coordinated and people are less likely to just be left on the hook. And that is only in solo play. SWFs already get this information for free. I don't see it as a big buff, more a necessary QoL change to boost the quality of solo play much like how killers got a strong boost to chases and gen times to improve the quality of their games. Solo players have already gotten a solid basekit BT which I am very happy with but this is my only main grievance left with the mode.
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All solo queue needs is a base-kit Kindred equivalent and I'd be happy. There's nothing BHVR can do to stop you from getting bad teammates if you happen to get games like that. And if you happen to get games like that a lot, it certainly can feel 'unplayable'. Especially considering the recent all around killer buffs. But that's always been the nature of solo, a roll of the dice as to whether your game goes well or just sucks from the get go.
And more perks need to be revisited and/or buffed. Considering the amount of perks the game has there are still too many that are made redundant when compared to the vastly superior alternatives (eg: Solidarity, Clairvoyance, Buckle Up, I could go on). The perk mid-chapter was a strong start but it should by no means be the end of perk reworks.
Weaker killers also need addon passes and/or balance tweaks so as to encourage a meta shift. I've been getting Weskers and Nurses an awful lot since the chapter and before that Blights and Nurses. It gets awfully boring versing the same stuff over and over. I'd love to verse a variety of killers like Hillbilly and Trickster and Myers and so on but they're too weak to be used at the high end of MMR (or at least that's the impression I'm getting).
And (this is by far the most important one) more Laurie cosmetics please.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169646#Comment_3169646
You made some really good points. But now I think you should take a break or have some lunch. Suzu has apologised and I'm done responding to this thread.
I'm going to have some toast now. Cheers!
Hahaha, it's nearly half past two in the morning over here in the UK. I need to go to bed and think some happy thoughts.
Thanks and enjoy the toast!
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169493#Comment_3169493
What do you think is the reason that there's very good players who have massive winstreaks in this game on pretty much anything regardless of killer or survivor or build? Eg, Ryuga playing pre-buff Legion with meme builds and getting a 150+ or so winstreak. I'm curious to hear what your thoughts on this is.
I'm also curious what makes you think you know if a game is high MMR or not to be able to make a statement like you did in the opening of the third paragraph. Dead Hard was nerfed because it was effectively uncounterable against most killers in this game when used for distance, which in turn led to bloated pickrate. Pickrate + over-reliance on perks is why they shuffled around meta recently, such as Off the Record for Decisive Strike, or Eruption over Ruin, etc. Things like built-in Endurance and Haste, general killer buffs in longer gen times, etc. Guess what Awakened Awareness' release + the downshift of perks like Corrupt, Ruin, Tinkerer, Pop, etc did? It switched around things like Corrupt Ruindying Tinkerer into Call of Brine/Eruption/etc for gen regression, and new variants of chase-heavy builds (Starstruck/Infectious/aura perks/etc) now had a new perk to play with even if gimmicky. Also made them overall less necessary comparatively since the base now exists. You know, literally what devs were trying to go for.
Why would I think the build is a problem? Every Exposed perk has counterplay built into it, and Nurse has her own unique counterplay built in. Both methods are viable routes for playing against it on pretty much everything except horribly tiny maps like Midwich or Gideon. Which need reworks anyways (Midwich gates are awful, there's basically no good loops, the entire map is a hold-W test. Gideon has 25-29 god pallets, basically no good windows, etc.)
I'll be honest given the aggressive and condescending nature of your responses I'm tempted to not respond. But I'll bite anyway because I'm a glutton for punishment.
The nature of pub lobbies is, well, random. Even with the MMR system as is you could get matched with four solo queue dummies who don't know what they're doing or a four man SWF who are really good at chases and coordinating. I imagine that part of getting winstreaks is your matchups being favorable and having as you say 'easy lobbies'. I imagine another part is that those streamers have gotten very very good at their particular killers and so if the survivors slip up they will capitalise on said mistakes enormously and usually end the match rather than allow the survivors a chance of a comeback. They will also know the most efficient strats for killers, map layouts and prioritise keeping 3 gens from the beginning of the match. They would have to sweat their balls off to win 150 games in a row, that seems ridiculous to me, but at the same time I'm not surprised that's it's possible. Especially considering the amount of games where you can have DCs or people giving up to add to that tally. For pre-nerf Legion you would have to play very, very hard to win and play very dirty to pull off that many wins and have to be very experienced and knowledgable at the game to do so. For a winstreak that high anyway.
I don't know for certain what my MMR is (the game never has and probably never will allow you to see your own MMR) but I can infer that I am at high MMR based on the killers I verse. I've versed killer main streamers such as D34D Plays a fair number of times who must have high MMR considering their kill rates. And I see Starstruck Nurses a LOT. In fact the day after Wesker released I was getting more Nurses again than Weskers by a landslide and a lot of them were Starstruck ones who would dominate in their games. So naturally if I'm getting matched with high kill rate killers I'm going to assume I'm at the MMR survivor equivalent to get matched with them to begin with. But there isn't any way for me to know for sure. All I know is that this build is common for Nurses. It certainly gets a lot of attention on the forums.
So in turn the build does have a high pickrate, a pickrate which is exclusive for Nurses and no other killer in the game. Why? Because when the build isn't countered when versing other killers, it still has limited utility. A killer that can see the aura of an exposed survivor still has to catch them. But any other killer in the game would have to close the distance on that survivor, deal with survivor defenses such as pallets, windows, and LOS breakers that can cause them to lose the survivor. The survivor is given time to recognise that they are exposed and either hide or get as much distance from the killer as possible to deincentivise the chase. Nurse doesn't have this problem. When she sees your aura, she has a LOS directly to you and can blink straight to you, regardless of the distance put between her and the survivor or the defenses that survivor has, and one shot you. This is maybe at most ten or so seconds after she puts someone on the hook. And because she gets her power back very quickly she can snowball with this to other nearby exposed survivors. So the only counterplay, unlike every other killer in the game, is to avoid becoming Starstruck altogether, and this is difficult when the Nurse has Agitation and you are unsure of where she is going to hook someone and in turn which area to stay away from to avoid going into her larger TR. Not to mention how on like you say maps like Gideon and Midwich, which the killer can burn and guarantee every time, it is outright impossible to avoid altogether.
And if you happen to go into her TR for even a second, you are exposed for another 30. If your aura is revealed at any time in that period you may as well be a free hook. No other killer in the game can say that. And it is all thanks to this particular build on this particular killer where the only thing you can do to not be one shot and/or slugged is to essentially avoid her for the entire game and hide your aura via lockers. It doesn't even have to be that consistent. A few quick downs via Starstruck or one slug snowball is enough to usually throw the game into your favor to the point you have won. Especially on a killer as powerful as Nurse.
I'm not going to think that say Legion needs to be nerfed because it's possible to have a 150+ winstreak with them. It is the nature at which these games are won that matters to me. And the OP nature of Starstruck Nurse is just something that allows games to be ended far too easily and quickly and sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to literally every other killer and playstyle in the game. The devs do consider it a problem or at least something that must be considered when regarding game balance because AA was nerfed purely because of how well it synergised with an already incredibly strong Nurse playstyle. AA is not a problem anywhere else. But they are going about it in the wrong way and instead of nerfing the culprit, Starstruck Nurse, they are balancing perks in line with how powerful they would be with said build. How else do you explain the AA nerf before the chapter dropped?
This is why I think the build is unhealthy for the game. It already offers little counterplay and is little risk of whiffing for very high reward. It has gotten to the point where new perks are now being balanced PURELY around a single build for a single killer out of a 29 killer roster and over eight pages of killer perks. Ignoring the problem now only means that this trend will continue and limit perk design space further.
I myself am curious as to why you are so reluctant to have Nurse changed to compensate for the power level such a build can give her. Making blinks special attacks or even only chain blinks secondary attacks keeps the build strong while not allowing it to absolutely dominate once it gets going. What's the harm in that?
(I'm absolutely exhausted typing all that out by the way. I hate debating about Nurse more than I actually do versing her.)
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169330#Comment_3169330
Or... they're doing what they do, because they have the data to realize it's not actually an issue like people claim it is?
Also, a good player can beat pub lobbies with literally anything. I've literally done zero gen regression Trapper with zero add-ons or offerings and slaughtered pub lobbies at 5 gens left before. Beating average players is a given for good players. The fact you think beating average players proves anything is amusing though. I've escaped pub lobby killers using No Mither or zero perk survivor builds. Does that mean those are good? No, it means average players suck.
You're kind of contradicting yourself by saying that pub game 'anecdotes' can't be used as evidence before literally using them as evidence to suggest that any pub lobby that gets slaughtered by Nurse was just 'an average lobby' and easy to beat anyway. Just because you won a match with zero perk Trapper doesn't mean that those three lobbies shown that got slaughtered by Nurse were automatically 'easy to beat' lobbies. Maybe they were 'easy to beat' because of the Starstruck combo that this post is discussing?
And if we aren't allowed to use actual matches as evidence of a killer/perk/perk combo's power level, what can we use? If we look at how common this combo is run on Nurse it has to be in the high percentages literally because it is more powerful than every other thing in the game. No other killer has the ability to pick someone up, hook them, then create a snowball effect where people are one shot and then slugged on the floor repeatedly. All in a matter of moments thanks to aura reading perks so the Nurse can instantly blink to the survivor without having to search for them or having to deal with the survivor getting distance before a chase can start. AA contributes to this problem. It itself doesn't need to be nerfed but it only serves to emphasise how powerful this build is and how it in fact has been made even more powerful thanks to a perk that would be interesting at best on other killers.
If the Starstruck Agi AA combo isn't overpowered, why is it literally the only build seen on most competent Nurses? Why are the other perks that have been released that are apparently super good for Nurse never seen at higher MMR? Because this build blows all of them completely out of the water. If we're following the dev's balance philosophy they don't want a stale and decided meta where only certain perks are run because they trump all of the alternatives. This is why perks like Dead Hard were nerfed and weaker ones buffed to encourage a shift. Given the overwhelming popularity and incredible power level of this build I don't see why the devs wouldn't consider it an issue. And seeing as the build/perks itself are far less powerful on any other killer in the game, I stand to see that they will nerf Nurse. Making her blinks special attacks solves the problem as it means that even if the Nurse can see your aura and blink to you straight away they at least are no longer guaranteed an insta-down and have to tackle actual chases instead of getting a dirty insta-down hit and immediate hook.
I honestly can't understand how you can think a build like this is okay, let alone healthy for the game.
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Tomorrow Ouroboros will be released into the atmosphere... ensuring complete, global, saturationnnnnnnn
Yeah I'm more than a little excited. RE5 is definitely in my top three favourite RE games. Having Wesker in DBD is a hilarious dream come true.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3156708#Comment_3156708
Okay, look, dude, it's a mistake to expect nothing but constructive criticism from a forum.
But you don't exactly create your posts on the fulcrum of neutrality and rejection of biases. You're pretty clear about which team you're rooting for, and you're frankly.. look, dude, I don't know how to politely put this, whiny about it. That's honestly the worst part. Even if I do agree with you, and I can agree with some things, the way you express it I feel like I have to disagree out of pithy annoyance. And you can't deny that it's hard to give constructive feedback when your alignment is aggressive killer and every other sentence has a jab sneaked in.
You're spot on, couldn't have phrased it better myself. Something about his responses puts me off.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155663#Comment_3155663
Well that's very telling for how fragile survivors' egos and willpower are, if they'd give up so easily just from that. Maybe it's just me, but I keep trying to win from beginning to end, even when it's pointless, and I wouldn't expect pity points when I refused to do so.
That's not what I meant. If you're a survivor and say two people are dead and there are still four gens up there is no way you are 'winning' that game. You're dead. There's no way you repair four gens between two people before the killer kills you both. No way to escape through the doors. So what's the point in continuing to play other than maybe a few extra points? Survivors would just go to the hook so they can get into the next match.
But because the hatch is a thing, the survivors aren't immediately resigned to knowing they're gonna die. One of them could get the hatch! So one person takes the fall for the other dude on the chance that that dude may escape and that's there's a silver lining to the horrible match they just had. It makes it so the 4k outcome of the match isn't immediately decided when the killer is dominating but in a way that doesn't make killers feel cheated. I certainly don't. If the only escape you had was through the hatch you won by a landslide as killer. And even still it's not a guaranteed escape. As killer you are more likely to find the hatch as you can traverse the map quicker and the survivor has to be on the lookout for you while searching for it themselves. It's really not worth fussing over.
I don't understand why you'd want to keep playing to 'win' in a match you've 100% lost. That just seems like you're setting yourself up for failure. You've said yourself it's 'pointless'. What's the point? Why should survivors continue to play in matches where the outcome of no one escaping is guaranteed?
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I would much rather play through an awful match knowing that there is a chance of at least someone getting out than have it where if we lose at the start no one has any chance. You would see a lot more survivors just giving up if the hatch was removed. Keeps things tense too.
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Only time I ever do this is when I'm going for tricky Adepts as I know the Adept requirements can be particularly harsh and I'd rather not risk letting someone escape and costing me the trophy. But that's when I have to sweat. I don't understand the killers that do it in normal games, they drag on the match for usually at least another five minutes for little reward, and for the CHANCE that someone could escape. Like does it really matter that much if one person gets the hatch? That's basically confirmation that you won by a good margin. Why isn't that enough?