LALYTHIA
LALYTHIA
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None. All Killers are doing just fine.
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Yep, that's pretty much how it feels these days.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361590#Comment_1361590
So go work on gens. I don't complain that I can't repair a generator because the killer is hovering around it, I just go find a new one and leave the killer to do nothing. Basically the same thing, if the caged survivor is a team player.
Thank you for trying to "killer-splain" what survivors can do to "win" in this scenario. As usual, this advice is ignorant AF. It fails to address that no matter what this ruins the game for at least 1 person, for no reason. It wastes their time. It wastes their BP. It wastes their addons. It wastes their offerings. It wastes their PIPs. Because why? They had the audacity to spawn into a match? LOL No. Just do gens is not an acceptable answer to a Killer purpose-built to utilize the most obnoxious and toxic play styles in the game. Sorry.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361526#Comment_1361526
It is of course a balance concern but its majorly a QoL concern. Getting a 4 second stun for a power that doesn't down survivors no matter what is very bad. The power has so many restrictions and so little room for error or good performance.
The stats that were mentioned in this thread are the same stats that the devs told us to not make assumptions about.
I find it odd people thinking that this is fine even after many people proving the opposite but who am i to judge?
If it is a balance concern...it doesn't seem like the concern is valid. His kill rate isn't low. And a QoL concern that would advantage his functionality and kill rate is not really QoL as much as a buff to his game play. The fact that the killer's power is challenging to use effectively isn't necessarily a good argument for change. Nurse has always been more difficult to master - that's why Nurse mains are well respected (at least by me).
Making the statement that his kill rate is not abnormally low or below 'balance', while actually showing his kill rate, is not an assumption. It's recounting the facts provided by the people most qualified to provide that information. So, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
I have yet to see anyone 'prove the opposite' about Legion being so weak and under-powered. If someone actually made one, I might be inclined to change my mind.
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@SpiritLover1133 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361526#Comment_1361526
My friend is a red rank survivor with only 18 hours in DbD on record. We played KYF and taught him how to loop and he performs way better than those 1000 hours randoms.
Ok?
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361530#Comment_1361530
Better yet, you wouldn't need BT if you'd rescue people safely. I don't run BT and rarely have any issues because I actually try to rescue people, not just farm them for points.
Its impossible to rescue someone safely when a Killer comes directly to their cage and refuses to leave. Getting a safe hook rescue is a luxury these days more survivors are not afforded.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361465#Comment_1361465
No they actually wanted to shake up the meta and think outside the box in terms of perks.
Your 2nd chance perks still work on hooks and good ph players will find a safe medium between best times to hook and cage.
Or you know survivor mains can just you know... Cry for nerfs and changes within the first week of his release like they have done since they added the first dlc killer.
Yes, you are right - PH players (calling them good is laughable) have found the best way to work hooks and cages. They hook. Then they tunnel. Then the cage. Then they tunnel. Then they mori. Its very quick. Its very dirty. Its very broken. Its no fun. There's nothing you can do about it because the only perks in the game designed to provide SOME alleviation from this abusive play style are voided by this particular killer. I like to think the BHVR team is relatively smart. So my statement stands. They purposely designed a Killer adept at tunneling because they desired to. Clearly. Otherwise it wouldn't exist. If they wanted to change the meta, they would make adjustments so that the necessity of running DS/BT wasn't an every match occurrence. Instead, they built a Killer that negates the perks they designed specifically to address this hated play style. On purpose. As I said.
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I find it odd people talk so disparagingly about Legion when he does just fine. Stats show it. IME as a red rank survivor, Legions do well. 🤷
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He doesn't need any buffs.
Cages need to be changed. The tunneling is ridiculous.
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Yes, because apparently BHVR wants a killer who tunnels people to death immediately. Fun, right?
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Agreed.
The map is beautifully done, which is why it is so sad the room configurations, resources and gen placements are utter trash. I have started using ANY map offering to avoid being taken there. Unfortunate. I love the look/feel of the place.
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@Nubgutter said:
So you're telling me that something like gear head was too op so the devs nerfed it but yet soul guard still isnt nerfed when it's already op and unbalanced especially when you add other op perks with it, There is literally zero excuse for this and there isnt a chance in hell that this flew over the devs heads they knew exactly what they were doing and I'll guarantee they only nerfed gear head because of killers like spirit lmao, If soul guard still isnt nerfed by 2 weeks later then this will only help prove my point.
I have yet to see anyone even use this perk in an actual game. And the only major thread I saw about it here from another survivor was that it's far too situational to be useful/meta most of the time. So...? Also, "other op perks"? Come on, bruh. Perks are perks.
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@Rydog said:
There's going to be a learning curve vs. any killer. Plague negates healing, Doctor negates stealth, so what?
Survivors have powerful tools other than their perks. Also, Executioner's cage is a sometimes skill, plus 19 other killers exist. It's not like this is going to be your predicament 100% of the time.
You can play around healing and stealth. You cannot play around tunneling when the only viable tools you have - and two of your perk slots - are rendered un-usable. And with PH being the new, cool toy...it is the predicament right now a majority of the time.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1358923#Comment_1358923
The same killers who consider flashlights and throwing down a pallet toxic.
Except neither of those things can eliminate a Killer from the game early before they even really get to play, nor do they guarantee a lack of BP or a depip. So no, those are not remotely comparable.
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@Eleghost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1358913#Comment_1358913
I don't really see how killers are super toxic in-game. Depends on your definition of toxicity. tunneling is not toxic and neither is slugging.
Yes, camping and tunneling are indeed toxic behaviors and they actually ruin people's progress in the game with little to no recourse by the survivor themselves. Where as anyone can ignore post-game chat and it has no bearing on your in-game progress whatsoever. Also, slugging can certainly be toxic depending upon how it is used.
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No.
I'm busy using them rn to ensure I don't get that doodoo Silent Hill map.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359656#Comment_1359656
It's a team based game..if you dont work together you fail
The idea that a team can stop a killer from tunneling someone out of the game is idiotic.
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That's super dumb. Matches like this aren't fun for anyone. Survivors can't get decent pts if the Killer is too much of a baby to do anything unless farming ensues. It's definitely no fun for Killer to be in a losing match by default. Hope they fix this soon. No bueno.
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The Killer community is just as toxic, and like you stated - it's only gotten worse. You want to know why survivors are post game toxic? Because Killers are in-game toxic. And while their words may being annoying post-match...they don't ######### up your bloodpoints or your rank, like Killer toxicity does. That's why survivors don't give a #########.
Also, NOED isn't toxic or broken. It's easily counterable and the person a survivor should be mad at when it pops are the other three survivors. Rock on with your NOED. 👍️
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Yes. It sucks. Been using offerings after playing it twice tonight. LOL
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I do hope this map gets a redesign. It looks cool, but its terrible to play on thus far.
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@Blendette_will_Evade said:
Okay, so basically his power counters basically all of the anti-tunnel perks like DS and BT. Several games where I've been tunneled to death even when there's only 5 gens left. I dunno, this killer seems like a tunnelers dream.
Yep. This has been my experience in the PTB and the 2 matches I played today.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357061#Comment_1357061
Well...yes and no. As a PH, I dont HAVE to cage you right away. I can hook someone who has torment on, and then tunnel them down after the unhook and cage them to avoid a DS. I still wouldnt say its OP or anything, just acknowledging that it IS a thing.
A tactic I hadnt even thought about. 😂 Dayum.
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357049#Comment_1357049
Camping and tunneling as PH is counterintuitive since his cages spawn on the other side of the map
People say that about every Killer. And have said that about PH, except it isnt. Because the 'other side of the map' in a lot of cases isn't really that far - especially new maps. IME in the PTB, he was able to get to the cage at or just after the survivor who was releasing from the cage. Of the matches I played, the vast majority of PH's tunneled the cage and camped hooks with his ranged ability to try and down the off-hooked survivor and hit the off-hooker in a single hit. This will be rampantly abused by Killers, regardless if there is a better way to play the game, because it is a very easy way to kill people - with guaranteed no BT/DS - and thats all Killers care about.
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@MojoTheFabulous said:
Yeah but the mini-mori is if you're already on death hook. So all it really does it save a bit of time and counter things like DS. It's not a big enough deal to make him OP.
The fact that he can avoid DS/BT via his cages and DS via mini-mori is pretty ridiculous, actually.
Devs have stated they are looking into ways to make camping/tunneling less desirable...then they created a Killer even more efficient at tunneling by allowing him to disable the only viable counters to it.
That will be abused. There will continue to be much rage in the forums about this killer, I suspect. Probably resulting in some variety of 'tone down' in a coming patch. It's pretty much the way it always goes.
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Because end game takes time. EGC starting when the last gen is done would mean EGC would need a far longer timer to be remotely fair. No one would want a 10 minute timer when the survivors all immediately open the door and then just hang out because their timer is extended. That would be like old dbd. Its whole purpose is to get ppl off the map once they are clear to get out. Not serve as a killer's advantage to kill people...even tho it already works that way anyway.
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Wouldn't it be better to just join one of the other 12 conversations currently happening regarding this topic in the forums right now?
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You could use the exact same logic for why BHVR doesn't show survivors who the Killer is.
Is it because any specific killer is a problem? No. But people would dodge the ones they don't like and it would break the game. SWF do not win significantly more than random teams. They just present a greater challenge. Rise to the occasion.
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346569#Comment_1346569
it matters because LGBT shouldn't be a marketing concept for having communities buy the game as someone once said "I don't want my sexuality to be a accessory" this is common thing companies do which to many and myself seems distasteful because they didn't have to make a statement they could have made new characters and trying not to retcon/rewrite characters.
So you're saying any company that comes out in support of LGBTQ is using them as a marketing concept. So no company should do anything to support the LGBTQ community through actual representation and inclusivity within their brand, because they stand to benefit from it and thus it is using their sexuality as a marketing ploy vs. helping support their cause? I don't agree with that. The idea that support cannot be mutually beneficial, and in it being that way, then becomes insincere is ridiculous. Just because they didn't go about it in the way YOU wanted doesn't make their support disingenuous. And they don't have a new, unlicensed character coming out. Maybe they will build that into new character stories, but that doesn't help them effect a change NOW. How is a character's story being changed to reflect their new found sexuality any different from the RL experience of someone discovering or coming out with their own sexuality?
Your argument seems to be against the fact that BHVR is a company that makes money off their game, so adding in changes to existing characters during a period of time set aside for mass recognition of the LGBTQ community means they're doing so to profiteer off the community itself. Why couldn't this also be seen as displaying their support openly to the existing tens of thousands of people who play this game every day? And anyone looking to buy this game in the future? Openly backing a specific group can also be a detriment to a company's bottom line. It can cause people who oppose their view not to consume their product. It enters them into a controversial conversation they never HAD to have but CHOSE to have to show their support behind the causes and movements that matter to them and their culture as an organization.
You can say that you personally don't want or appreciate their support, or that you don't like the way they've gone about showing the support, but I just don't agree with you that the answer would have been to do nothing until a new unlicensed character was released. The world is in need of more shows of support right now than less. No one is making anyone buy this game. If people see relatable characters in this game and thus choose to buy it...how has any harm been done?
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If you really don't care about a character's sexuality, then why does it matter how they change the lore to feel more inclusive of different people? By the same logic you're using, it shouldn't.
Every step toward progress or inclusivity can be touted as pandering, that doesn't make it so. Change has to start somewhere. If every effort someone makes to cultivate change is brushed off as shallow and insincere - the alternative is no effort at all. Not really the better option.
If the sexuality of characters isn't important to you, then this shouldn't matter to you.
Also, you have a good idea in terms of them making LGBTQ supportive cosmetics. It would be cool if they offered 'cause' cosmetic packs and donated the proceeds to organizations that support that cause.
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"@LALYTHIA Right, and why is it easier to tunnel or camp? Don't get bogged down in the micro details of "oh if you're good it's not reactionary cause on this map some of these loops aren't super strong and not all pallets are get-out-of-jail free cards" etc. It's easier to tunnel and camp because of two factors that dovetail with the one-dimensional aspect of killer gameplay. One - there's zero benefit for a killer to not secure a kill after a chase, despite plenty of benefit for the survivor, and two - there are so many "surprise" methods for getting away at the last second that tunneling/camping becomes an incentive. You can't "surprise I got away" from the spectator screen. Since the killer can't do anything but "say hi, chase, hook, repeat" to try to win - especially combined with those two factors - it shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of killers min/max it.
The difficulty is in tunneling or camping hard enough to beat gen completion times. It still won't beat a dedicated genrush, but it will make it easier by default in a rando match even if it's annoying for the other team. In pretty much the exact same way looping and second chance perks make things easier by default for survivors but won't guarantee anything versus a killer who is better than you - even though they're super annoying for the other team."
We just wholly disagree. :) Which is fine.
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@metalklok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344553#Comment_1344553
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344557#Comment_1344557
cool thanks for clearing that up for me😀
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344555#Comment_1344555
yeah but i would like to see a feature (like this husk thing) put in that would stop this exploit before it becomes a factor to the in game match.
I guess it would depend on how the 'husk' worked. I don't really know how that could work without ######### the last survivor in the match. In a SWF, you could say that's their fault for choosing a faulty method to allow someone to escape. In a random match, it's not the last guy's fault that someone DC'd. So anything that would act, for the Killer, as though they didn't wouldn't really be fair to the survivor still on the map - if by husk this is referring to something during the match itself...which I'm assuming it is.
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The people who DC to give someone else the hatch are punished. They receive a temporary ban penalty and no points for the entire match they played.
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Ok
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Despite how it feels, 4-person SWF are encountered BY FAR the least of all survivor parties - that includes console.
In addition, SWF survival rate is approx. 49%....the lowest, randoms, is approximately 42%. So SWF, while frustrating and harder to play against, still aren't actually winning that much more than other survivor parties.
This is not enough of a 'problem' to justify stopping people from playing with a full squad of friends.
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Racist remarks should just be a perma ban. No warnings. No 'certain number of reports' before it occurs. One and done. There's zero excuse to use the N-word anywhere. You use hate speech, you gotta go. It's wholly unacceptable the very first time its used.
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You did her dirty. Never trust a Killer.
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@JustCats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344189#Comment_1344189
It's more the playstyle that these perks enable that makes camping and tunneling the easiest ways to kill people. With the current state of the game, everything the killer does is reactive to the survivors. If it were easier to escape the killer but harder to maintain a chase, tunneling and camping wouldn't be anything but griefing a bad player and a sure path to losing MMR. Right now the survivors have all the tools to maintain a chase pretty much as long as they don't make an obvious mistake, which is far more valuable (in terms of wasting killer time) than getting away - so they don't even consider other perks or modes of gameplay. Just loop. Tunneling and camping is just a reaction to that.
Except survivors don't have to make a mistake for a chase to end. Killers are faster. Killers get blood lust. Strong loops have been changed. There's now much larger swatches of dead space on maps. Long before the latest patch, window and palette combinations were change to be less strong. There are more unsafe palettes now. If you are in a chase...in a good area...and a decent player...sure, you can prolong a pretty good chase that allows your team optimal time to do what they need to do. Even that isn't great for the person being chased, since if that's all you're able to do for the match, you will cap your points and end up not actually doing well. Camping and tunneling happens from the first hook on...regardless of how long that chase lasted. That is not reactionary to what is happening in that match. That's just a play style choice because it's easier than legitimately entering into an actual chase with another survivor. Again, if you are the person coming off a hook from a killer who is camping/tunneling...you usually don't even have the opportunity to enter into another chase unless you're lucky enough to get hooked near some pretty useful resources. But no, camping and tunneling is not a response to survivor perks, nor is it a reaction to play style. It's pretty typically a choice made by the Killer before the match even starts, because it's their go-to method of playing the game.
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@JustCats said:
DS, BT, Unbreakable encourage tunneling and camping more than they dissuade it. If nobody ran those builds and instead ran a chase like they were trying to get away instead of to waste as much killer time as possible (which these perks enable big time), you'd see a lot less tunneling and camping.
I don't believe this is true.
Killers camp and tunnel because its one of the easiest ways to efficiently kill people. Not because survivors run specific perks. And if you can win a chase, tunneling isn't an option - true. I've had chases post-hook that lasted until my DS ran out. But that's not a very realistic scenario. How many people coming off a hook with the killer right there have an opportunity to even enter a chase? Not many.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344164#Comment_1344164
Personally I just love trying to come up with as many builds as possible and trying to make every perk work for at least something.
For example whenever a new chapter is released I always make a list of perk build ideas that involve the new perks, and I try and use each perk at least twice. Even if it's only for gimmik builds.
Im gonna give some of these a try tonight. :)
I used to run self care religiously, but eventually grew out of that. Maybe it could happen with DS/BT. 😂
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344137#Comment_1344137
Eh yeah I know. The idea is to point out alternative methods instead of just DS, BT, Unbreakable every game.
At least try dropping DS, if you must keep unbreakable sure whatever but by explicitly limiting myself from using those perks I instead have to come up with other ways to solve the problems.
I pointed this out with the anti-tunnel builds. The point of them isn't to be a crutch, but to give your chases a win condition.
Even Decisive Strike doesn't stop tunneling, it deters it but it doesn't stop it. The builds I propose STOP tunneling. As in they could attempt to tunnel you and try chasing you all game, but still fail anyways. Particularly with the first build.
I agree, DS doesn't really stop tunneling. A Killer will still pursue a DSer in a lot of cases and down them eventually anyway. The benefit is the waste of time, or its very strong end-game use. I don't think your builds stop tunneling either though - if they did, people would use them instead. For example, using babysitter to allow the off-hooked to have an easier time escaping. Killers with a tendency for camping/tunneling usually come back as a an off-hook is taking place, so they don't really need to see the scratch marks...they can see the survivor. The same with adrenaline...it does you no good for 90% of a match. It's only useful in end game, its most powerful use is completely situational, and you don't have control over when you use it. All the perks you listed are good perks - no doubt. I run Kindred. I run iron will. But DS and BT are a core part of my build because they are just more useful and effective than some of these other perks for these specific situations. But, if you find these builds work better for you and your play style - that's great. I have tried other builds, because I don't like feeling like I have to use the same perks over/over again just because camping/tunneling is so common. But alas, the second I dont have perks like BT...I get into a scenario where the only solution would have been BT. And I immediately revert back.
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I appreciate the effort you put into trying to think about these scenarios, but a lot of these scenarios don't play out this way - and no one is going to use lesser perks to combat these play styles when there are more viable perks available.
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This feels very true.
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I'm confused. How did you camp Bill if you left him on the ground while they did their little shenanigans and then he immediately hook suicided?
Did he suicide on first hook?
Was this his second hook and you camped him through his first hook and downed him when he got off?
I feel like we're missing some deets.
Also, why is your game always super funky colored?
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@Warr0ck512 said:
Hi I'm a stay at home mom to two special needs children. I play games as an escape from my every day life. I love to play survivor and killer but I've noticed some major hostility towards killers. It's so bad some nights I can't bring myself to play killer. You survivors know there is no game without a killer right? So why do you feel the need to be so mean? I'm not a camper and do everything I can to play fare but I still get t-bagged and swarmed. I just want to enjoy the game as intended and not stuck only playing survivor 😔
Basically what I'm trying to say is it takes nothing to be kind and please remember there is a person behind the screen.
I wish everyone would just 'be the change'. This game has gotten hard to play - not because the of game, because of the people and their behavior towards others.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342124#Comment_1342124
The past few days I've been playing survivor, I've gotten gold and iridescent Unbroken emblems after a killer disconnects, causing me to pip when I definitely didn't earn it. Pretty sure I got the 5k BP for it as well. And I got to keep any item I was holding.
Since Unbroken is based on your time in a match, not solely your escape, that's not terribly surprising. We're not talking about a match where the Killer DCs out in the first 2 minutes. In your scenario you are bullying a low level Killer...which means you could technically evade an unskilled killer for a long duration of time to accumulate points in that particular emblem without getting downed. I can see why the game would consider it an 'escape' for the purpose of the final point tabulation vs. you being dead...because you didn't die. But you also didn't really escape at least not of your own volition. So I see what you're saying. I would have zero problem with it counting that as a death instead toward this emblem, which means the highest you could accomplish in Unbroken is silver.
Also, in this scenario, you would have had to do other objectives to pip up and been in the match long enough to do them, so I don't think pipping up on a Killer DC match you actually played is an issue. Killers can also pip when survivors DC for this same reason. You earned those points during the match while your opponent is still there.
I can understand why BHVR decided to count a Killer DC as an escape and award 5,000 pts. The Killer is in direct connection to the entity...the entity's trial is between you and the Killer...and the Killer left forfeited the match...returning you to the campfire. You did escape. You just didn't do it yourself. Also, when a Killer makes a survivor DC, the match isn't over. I don't think it makes sense to award the same pts as you would get for an escape...since when the entity kills survivors, Killers don't get the same amount of pts as a sacrifice. TBH, it would make more sense for it to be 2,500, since a Killer is awarded 625 per survivor, or a total of 2,500. But I can see why they consider it an escape...as well as why, by the same logic, you could argue that a DC is a Kill.
But, in short, no I don't think survivors should get full escape points for Killer DCs. Like Killers, they didn't earn it.
The fact is, however, that survivors make Killers DC less than Killers make survivors DC because its not as easy to be legitimately toxic. I'm not talking about teabagging or hitting people on hooks level toxic. I'm talking about first hook face camping, tunnel mori toxic. That ######### just isn't enjoyable, yet its rampant in the game, and I completely understand why survivors DC out of those matches. That killer, intentionally making the game unenjoyable for 4 other people, doesn't deserve to get rewarded for that behavior. Just like your red ranks bullying a rank 20, as much as that is an extremist example of the match making system, those people shouldn't be rewarded either. It only incentivizes it. And if there's anything DBD doesn't need any more of, it's toxicity.
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@Yung_Slug I don't have people DC in the vast majority of my killer matches. I only avoid the first two items on this list. Isn't that crazy how that works? ;)
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342061#Comment_1342061
So then high ranking survivors shouldn't get points for escaping when they bully the rank 20 killer into disconnecting.
Do survivors get full escape points for the Killer disconnecting?